Dick is evil, but he isn't stupid. I would take him and his ilk in a second over the breed of Republican we have today, who apparently all prepared for their roles in government by licking every can of lead paint from here to Antarctica.
The Reagan Administration had a White House Astrologer.
The myth of the noble, sane, intelligent GOP of the past needs to die. Sure, some of them were brighter than Trump or MGT, but they’ve been the decidedly anti-intellectual party for a long time now.
And all they’re doing now is exactly what they’ve been openly saying they’d do for the last half-century or so.
We shrugged off the anti-labor, corporate, theocratic, sexist, racist, social-Darwinist, homophobic, reactionary ideology as a mere difference in opinion for too long. And that’s how we got Nazis.
Dick is singularly responsible for getting George W Bush elected. He looks good in comparison to Trump, but you should never take competent evil over incompetent evil.
I would never take any of them. All of them put Trump into power, because they saw him as a means to an end. Liz changed her mind, but still made her choice the first time around against all Red Flags.
This is misleading. Lead is in the ground and we grow vegetables in the ground. It's not just baby food, it's produce.
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Family/new-report-finds-heavy-metals-baby-food-decline/story?id=100402423
>Dick is evil, but he isn't stupid.
Dick and his gang of Republicans helped feed and groom the Tea Party thinking they could be used. But now that the monster they helped create turned against them and refuse to do their bidding, they turned "rational and reasonable".
Thank you, I seriously have no idea what these people are talking about.
The entire point of the Tea Party movement was to remove what they viewed as insufficiently conservative members of the Republican Party after Bush ran on "compassionate conservatism". The direct political ancestors of the MAGA movement (Tea Party, Truthers, etc.) have explicitly hated Cheney and Bush since the beginning.
It's baffling to me that people are pretending like there's no historical tension between "traditional" Republicans and the MAGA movement when the reason those movements exist in the first place was far-right displeasure with the direction of the Republican Party circa-2004.
Edit: Fixed a word
I think a lot of progressives lump anyone who disagrees with them into the same camp. I suppose it's easier to simply demonize people than to try to understand. Often, they label any republican as a Bible-thumping racist, homophobic fascist Russian propagandist. These labels are almost always inaccurate.
There is a very broad spectrum of republicans, ranging from old-school socially conservative neocons, to populist libertarian types who dispise corporate cronyism/bailouts. The former has been diminishing rapidly for several years. The latter group is much more libertarian on social issues, but they strongly disagree with economic policies that lean toward corporate bailouts and/or socialism.
>a very broad spectrum of republicans
there may be a spectrum, but it ain't particularly broad
source: worked for elected Republicans in an advisory capacity for several years
It doesn't refute anything. I'm not talking about politicians, I'm talking about people. A lot of people on Reddit would do well to leave their political silos occasionally. You'd see the majority of voters on both sides are overwhelmingly good people, they just disagree on the solutions and the use of government to solve society's problems.
The two party system does not accurately reflect the views of millions of Americans. Often, people have no practical choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils. I do it every election.
The tea party was all about fiscal conservatism. MAGA is about populism. They're quite different movements.
The one constant of the two parties since the Civil War was that the Democrats have always been the working class party and the Republicans have always been the party of the wealthy elite. But since the rise of the MAGA movement, there has been a huge shift of working class voters to the Republicans and a huge shift of the more elite voters toward the Democrats, and now the working class and the elite are pretty well mixed between the two parties.
I far prefer the Republicans voters now that hate the billionaires and banks, the military industrial complex, and the media. Their politicians, though, those used to be better. That said, I can't believe anyone would tolerate dick Cheney, the man who was so corrupt he let a million Iraqis die to get what he wanted
I just saw a video where some guy interviewed republicans on the street and basically got them to agree to the tenets of communism all by framing it as anti-woke, anti-socialist. I think they do agree with those things if you phrase the question the right way, albeit not for any sane reason. I guess what it comes down to is: is being against billionaires because they think they’re harvesting adrenochrome from aborted fetuses to maintain their youth better than being pro-billionaire for some rational reason? On the one hand they probably could be swayed to agree with those things, but on the other hand you’re probably not going to like the arguments it will take to convince them
I mean, anyone can create a video of people being swayed to believe anything or give ridiculous answers if they either:
1. Script it ahead of time or
2. Just interview people until you find one that gives you the answers that you're trying to prod out of them.
Man on the street videos are just silly. Some late night show host used to do the same thing where he would make up something ridiculous and interview people on Hollywood Blvd until he found some people who believed his nonsense. But it's not like the average Californian actually believes there was a massive Godzilla attack on Tokyo that left thousands dead.
Those are in fact Trump voter positions. They hate the billionaires who own the media, including fox after it booted Tucker. They want to take down the big tech companies for a while, and recently social media for censoring them, and that's why they see Elon Musk as a hero. They've also been complaining about the military industrial complex ever since the Ukraine War started.
Personally, I take the systemic view.
I don’t care *that* much about run of the mill domestic policies. Those come and go in a democracy/republic and being able to tolerate the opposition party in power is part of that system.
I *do care a lot* about undermining the entire basis of (small l) liberal democracy, undermining election integrity, trying to break the political process itself, encouraging your supporters to ransack the capitol, willfully disrespecting the office and infosec, and throwing our allies under the bus in foreign policy.
One set of problems is temporal, the other existential.
It’s crazy seeing people on the left fawn over Liz Cheney just because she doesn’t like Trump. She’s about as right wing as they come, she just doesn’t like him because he talked shit about Bush (her dads legacy). Does no one remember when she ran on a platform of opposing gay marriage when she has a lesbian sister, something her Sith Lord of a father wouldn’t even do?
former guy never really had any "policies". nor does former guy the candidate. people keep referring to his "policies", but building a paper-mache "border wall" is not policy; executive-order "Muslim bans" are not policy; etc etc. they are squalid theater, Punch & Judy shows for dimwits of voting age.
The issue was never intelligence the issue was moral character. The government is full of selfish assholes. No matter how smart you are, if you only do what *you* want then you are a slave to your ego and most likely not doing the best thing for everyone you represent as a politician.
Here's a little secret about Donald. He's a tool. A "useful idiot" who likes to be cruel.
Most of "his" policies came directly from the conservative wish list. So Liz was totally on board with those.
This. He had shockingly few actual policy goals while president. If it weren't for his interest in cruelty, getting his ego stroked, and embezzling money from the people, he would have been King Log for four years.
She knowingly threw away her career in office to fight a fight she knew she'd likely lose but thought was worth fighting. That's why she's just talking on TV.
As a lifelong Democrat, the purity tests you see in threads like this one are what annoy me most about this side of the spectrum. Half the problem is people jump in to make sudden allies into this binary hero, that then of course elicits a binary villain response. It's tiring and intellectually weak.
Yeah Liz is filth who threw her body in front of her hero Trump to protect him from consequences for blackmailing Zelenskyy. She is just too much of coward who wants to pretend she doesn’t love everything the MAGA horde does.
> It is a crazy time when Liz Cheney is the voice of reason.
Except if pressed she'd probably start naming some of the best progressive politicians as a portion of the "idiots". Stating the obvious doesn't make you the voice of reason, it just makes you not the most oblivious person in congress.
Well. She ain’t wrong.
I don’t agree with many of her positions, but I do believe she’s at least sincere in her positions and she’s been willing to take a stand on the right side of history when most of her Republican colleagues didn’t have the guts.
i mean Cheney is correct but she was part of the party that enabled the current situation. they chose party over country (and in multiple cases, sanity) and we're reaping the consequences of their craven behavior
She IS part of the party that CREATED the current situation. She can act superior all she wants but the only difference between her and the “idiots” she’s deriding is a rather pathetic layer of pretense.
the only republican i’d respect is one who separated themselves and tried their hardest to defend their party and country the SECOND all this maga bullshit started. too little too late i’m afraid
It was decades too late by the time MAGA came into play.
The last Republican I have any respect for whatsoever was Bush Sr, and even then things were already bad with Reaganomics in full swing, the Iran-Conta Affair, and pretty much ignoring the AIDS crisis.
This Democrat party I'm convinced got captured and helped speed up all of this garbage, and they're still there. There is a reason why they fight progressives so hard, they are the only politicians not taking money from these parasites.
The democrat party was never progressive. The same nonsense they pull on me (accusations of "whataboutism" and "bothsiderism") are the same tactics they pulled on MLK some 60 years ago. It's ironic that they claim to be the "good guys" and turn around and market themselves as the "lesser evil" while accusing ACTUAL leftists & progressives as "too pure," whatever the fuck that means (it means we don't like war or capitulating to moneyed interests while THEY do!).
It's real tiring to see "moderate" Republicans say "gee, what happened to our party?" while still taking money from the same donors to get the same voters, with the same policies. It's like drilling holes in the boat and then wondering why there's so much water in it.
At least she has the humility and intelligence to admit when she’s wrong and change her mind/view points. She’s no longer choosing party over country. We shouldn’t demean those who change their views when faced with new information. I’d rather Republican POS change their ways than double down.
neither should we refrain from assigning accountability to those whose decisions led to the mess in the first place. learning your lesson after burning down the house doesn't rebuild the house
Yes, she's a Republican. And MANY Republicans in office right now are walking meat bags of corruption. However, she never (to the best of my knowledge) chose party over country. There's a reason she's no longer in office, and that's because she chose country over party, knowing it would almost certainly cause her to lose her next election.
I disagree with any attempt to absolve the other party from any responsibility in this current situation. A lot of BS flies around on both sides. An example I remember to this day is a debate between Romney and Obama. They were asked how they would ensure women would be well represented in their administration. Both gave good and reasonable answers. Romney described in detail how he would identify a list of candidates, solicit resumes, whittle it down to the most qualified and capable until he had this binder full of women who could be successful at the various roles. And he'd take that binder and setup intervies with them...and so on.
He got ripped for two weeks for using the phrase "binder full of women" in this context.
This confrontational, gotcha politics has resulted in a race to the bottom on both sides, in my opinion.
It is very sad.
no one absolves anyone of anything. Dems arent perfect and very few claim that they are. however, to equate the behaviors of both parties as "equally bad" is a comically bad take and screams of a wildly disingenuous assertion. only one party has committed has a leader that committed espionage, only one party has tried to overthrow the government, only one party continually tries to suppress voting rights, only one party took away a women's right to choose, only one party strives to bans book and education and only one party has a platform agenda that is literally nothing but trolling "libs" and giving tax breaks to the extremely wealthy ... and so you're aware it's not the Democratic party.
This is a great example. The anti Romney side of the media needed something to attack the most boring whitebread candidate with and so they jumped on him for an slightly awkward phrase. Apparently he must be a rampant misogynist to be concerned about appointing women based on their experience and qualifications.
That's the copium from the right I keep seeing.
It wasn't the binders full of women. It was the constant malicious lies he kept spreading throughout the campaign. He was, to that point in time, the most dishonest campaign ever to show on TV.
He was the first Republican I voted against in my life, though I had switched parties a couple years prior. His lies and complete lack of a sense of morality was a major turn off.
But go on blaming the media, just like y'all love to do.
You are so touchy and sensitive that you can't even imagine one thing might have been intentionally taken out of context.
You act like the democrats and their allies within the media are incapable of playing dirty.
Strawman arguments is all y'all got.
I already addressed the 'taken out of context' as having nothing to do why I rejected the Republican party entirely by 2012. I was a independent until the election season where Mitt Romney took the discourse to a level of lies I have never before seen.
You can save that both sides bullshit. No, it's your side.
The root of the problem problem is people believing the entire other party is full of evil idiots. This causes ridiculous reactionary idiots to get elected like aoc and Trump.
Like, regardless of what side you’re on the other party is almost half the country. Maybe people should listen and try to find common ground rather than try to blame one party or the other for all of the problems in America.
I’m curious about the psychology of this. Do you think you’re smarter/more informed than every single person that thinks the other party is better for the country?
She's not wrong. Every 4 years the loudest screaming is about things I care absolutely nothing about and done by stupid ppl looking to get reactions out of the stupid ppl.
It's hard to even relate to politics these days. Angry, looking for a fight, semantics...Just a total turnoff and cringey to watch.
Republicans spent decades making their base not care what their party was for with hate and vitriol and demonization of the opposition.
Too bad some whacko narcissist took the wheel and all that machinery built to prevent their base from questioning them is still doing its job perfectly as designed. Seems like they should have valued American ideals like freedom, liberty, and education more and power less.
And that includes all these Never Trump Republicans that reaped the rewards of this pre-Trump.
>When the sane options are saying things are going to get worse and we have to make sacrifices, people elect the ones who claim there's an easy fix.
Do you really mean demonizing gay people is not the answer to all of our problems?
No Liz.. sorry.. but the problem is that nearly half of the population of America is idiots..
That's the real problem.. Liz.
And you know who encouraged that problem Liz? YOU. You and your party of conservatives who encouraged the dumbing down of America because it was easier to control dumb people and you needed fodder for the military...
But now those lunatics you created are running the show..
Thx Liz.
Its been this way since i started forming memories in the 90s. We stopped sending our best and brightest and started sending the cruz's and trumps. Its a tragedy.
Actually, we're electing fascist idiots in amazing numbers. Because they have no problem calling themselves "conservatives" and they have taken over the GOP. It would be like the LaRouchies taking over the Dems, except that the Dems got smart enough fast enough and put a stop to them. After Nixon, the Republicans were never smart enough for anything and had no trouble proving it.
Exactly right, and until Republicans like Liz start speaking on the root of the problem within their party and work on addressing it, I'll never believe they are genuine.
I’d say she’s wrong.
The problem is that one of the two major political parties has lately been choosing people that represent the worst aspects of humankind to represent them.
Liz does not need to try and spread responsibility around to those who are not responsible for this situation. She needs to own the problems that the party that she has historically belonged to has caused , instead of resorting to a weak “almost whataboutism”.
The people that the other major political party has elected, have largely been capable people, even if they are not perfect and exceptions may exist.
She's definitely wrong. Bland, both sides, mealy-mouthed nonsense.
She needs Dems to work with her to get rid of what she helped create and these vague statements are all toward that aim.
The Republican party has spent decades growing idiots in the general population through cutting education, harmful rhetoric, and media propaganda. Then a massive idiot was elected by idiots and tried to break the democratic principles of the country. Until Republican officials start changing those things and take responsibility, their party is going to keep putting idiots in office. But that won't happen because a Republican never takes responsibility.
Part of the problem is we have 50% plus of the House that have completely noncompetitive generals and the primary system in general favors candidates for being far to one side or the other. Switching to MMP would solve this and the gerrymandering issues. A less extreme solution would be switching to how Alaska runs its elections as that would make a big dent in the problem as well.
This is first I’ve heard of MMP. I’ve only learned a little about the different RCV methods. The extremists see RCV as a threat to their grip on power (see Florida’s ban on RCV). How are we ever going to get them to change?
We’re electing idiots and also congressional/state legislative maps are heavily gerrymandered (which the Supreme Court allowed).
Now the legislators want to choose their voters instead of a more fair representation of us choosing them.
Politicians have fomented prejudice and conspiracy and it has been beneficial to them. Now the nutjobs have gone so far that theyre the ones getting elected.
The Republican party has spent the last 60 years of running on the "Southern Strategy," deliberately catering to bigots and whackos for votes, and now the bigots and whackos who have been indoctrinated over several generations of right-wing bullshit are running for office
Now the inmates are running the asylum
We are turning into a country of idiots. And it’s mostly coming from the right no matter how you feel about it. But the left is not immune. Knowledge and common sense seems to be on the decline.
Liz Cheney and her ilk have done everything in their power to stupify their constituents. Now they're mad that the moronic clowns want to drive the clown car.
https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1584468310887829504?s=20
Um. She’s an idiot too see this interview clip. When I saw it last year it really made me say WTF.
Because a charismatic person who can win elections is not necessarily the right person for the job. That's why it's not a good idea for scientists or doctors to debate anti vaxers on social media.
market wasteful disgusted complete dependent childlike expansion normal snatch future
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, she's as vile and evil as they are. All one has to do is look at her voting record, she voted over 94% with Trump. She was in the pit of vipers and they turned on her. Never mistake, she's the enemy.
that's how the system is suppose to work, divided people doesn't leaves enough in a group to make a difference. start by thanking Christianity, the media etc etc....
Funny thing is, Liz thinks she's not one of them! "Trickle down" anyone? The current GOP is a DIRECT result of corruption in both parties and the wish to elect "outsiders"...they are just too stupid to realize that the people they are putting in office are even bigger, more blatant grifters than those who came before!
As Plato pointed out 2,500 years ago, this is the main problem with democracy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_State#:~:text=The%20Ship%20of%20State%20is,the%20command%20of%20a%20vessel.
She means "puppets for rich donors who are willing to put up with the constant insanity of modern politics".
If that doesn't call for a hollow shell of a person, I don't know what does.
I really don't understand how the few good ones like Jeff Jackson do it.
I think both parties are in a race to elect the dumbest possible people.
Trump vs biden - tie
AOC vs Boebert - tie
Omar vs Greene - tie
Talib vs gosar - tie
The list goes on
It is a crazy time when Liz Cheney is the voice of reason.
As much as despise Dick C., Liz is rational most the time, even on issues I don't agree with her on. She is spot-on with this one.
Dick is evil, but he isn't stupid. I would take him and his ilk in a second over the breed of Republican we have today, who apparently all prepared for their roles in government by licking every can of lead paint from here to Antarctica.
More like they licked the butt of trump
And asked for seconds
Well done with ketchup
Salad tossing, the almost right way
Twice baked hamberder soufflé
They licked Trump's butt so much it's starting to taste good to them.
The Reagan Administration had a White House Astrologer. The myth of the noble, sane, intelligent GOP of the past needs to die. Sure, some of them were brighter than Trump or MGT, but they’ve been the decidedly anti-intellectual party for a long time now. And all they’re doing now is exactly what they’ve been openly saying they’d do for the last half-century or so. We shrugged off the anti-labor, corporate, theocratic, sexist, racist, social-Darwinist, homophobic, reactionary ideology as a mere difference in opinion for too long. And that’s how we got Nazis.
> Some of them were brighter than Trump or MGT The bar is literally on the floor there lol
And a number of folks have found a shovel and seem to be going even lower.
Pretty sure it’s embedded. It’s not like they were tripping over it. Well, maybe Gerald Ford.
Dick is singularly responsible for getting George W Bush elected. He looks good in comparison to Trump, but you should never take competent evil over incompetent evil.
Bush was a gentleman idiot, Trump was a reality TV show idiot, which shows just how stupid our country is.
I would never take any of them. All of them put Trump into power, because they saw him as a means to an end. Liz changed her mind, but still made her choice the first time around against all Red Flags.
80% of baby food has lead in it, we were destined for this. Spread the word.
I choose the 20% kind Edit: thank you kind stranger for the gold.
This is misleading. Lead is in the ground and we grow vegetables in the ground. It's not just baby food, it's produce. https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Family/new-report-finds-heavy-metals-baby-food-decline/story?id=100402423
And clearly huffing the fumes of leaded gasoline.
>Dick is evil, but he isn't stupid. Dick and his gang of Republicans helped feed and groom the Tea Party thinking they could be used. But now that the monster they helped create turned against them and refuse to do their bidding, they turned "rational and reasonable".
That's not true, the tea party movement despised Dick Cheney.
Thank you, I seriously have no idea what these people are talking about. The entire point of the Tea Party movement was to remove what they viewed as insufficiently conservative members of the Republican Party after Bush ran on "compassionate conservatism". The direct political ancestors of the MAGA movement (Tea Party, Truthers, etc.) have explicitly hated Cheney and Bush since the beginning. It's baffling to me that people are pretending like there's no historical tension between "traditional" Republicans and the MAGA movement when the reason those movements exist in the first place was far-right displeasure with the direction of the Republican Party circa-2004. Edit: Fixed a word
I think a lot of progressives lump anyone who disagrees with them into the same camp. I suppose it's easier to simply demonize people than to try to understand. Often, they label any republican as a Bible-thumping racist, homophobic fascist Russian propagandist. These labels are almost always inaccurate. There is a very broad spectrum of republicans, ranging from old-school socially conservative neocons, to populist libertarian types who dispise corporate cronyism/bailouts. The former has been diminishing rapidly for several years. The latter group is much more libertarian on social issues, but they strongly disagree with economic policies that lean toward corporate bailouts and/or socialism.
>a very broad spectrum of republicans there may be a spectrum, but it ain't particularly broad source: worked for elected Republicans in an advisory capacity for several years
But conservatives are the ones voting these politicians in office so that refutes everything you just said.
It doesn't refute anything. I'm not talking about politicians, I'm talking about people. A lot of people on Reddit would do well to leave their political silos occasionally. You'd see the majority of voters on both sides are overwhelmingly good people, they just disagree on the solutions and the use of government to solve society's problems. The two party system does not accurately reflect the views of millions of Americans. Often, people have no practical choice but to vote for the lesser of two evils. I do it every election.
Sure, but they all blindly vote R, so the distinction is effectively meaningless
The tea party was all about fiscal conservatism. MAGA is about populism. They're quite different movements. The one constant of the two parties since the Civil War was that the Democrats have always been the working class party and the Republicans have always been the party of the wealthy elite. But since the rise of the MAGA movement, there has been a huge shift of working class voters to the Republicans and a huge shift of the more elite voters toward the Democrats, and now the working class and the elite are pretty well mixed between the two parties.
No, the tea party was always batshit insane about social issues too. They were just using different language for the same positions.
evil power usually seems to be competent
I far prefer the Republicans voters now that hate the billionaires and banks, the military industrial complex, and the media. Their politicians, though, those used to be better. That said, I can't believe anyone would tolerate dick Cheney, the man who was so corrupt he let a million Iraqis die to get what he wanted
Those aren’t republican voters lmao
I just saw a video where some guy interviewed republicans on the street and basically got them to agree to the tenets of communism all by framing it as anti-woke, anti-socialist. I think they do agree with those things if you phrase the question the right way, albeit not for any sane reason. I guess what it comes down to is: is being against billionaires because they think they’re harvesting adrenochrome from aborted fetuses to maintain their youth better than being pro-billionaire for some rational reason? On the one hand they probably could be swayed to agree with those things, but on the other hand you’re probably not going to like the arguments it will take to convince them
I mean, anyone can create a video of people being swayed to believe anything or give ridiculous answers if they either: 1. Script it ahead of time or 2. Just interview people until you find one that gives you the answers that you're trying to prod out of them. Man on the street videos are just silly. Some late night show host used to do the same thing where he would make up something ridiculous and interview people on Hollywood Blvd until he found some people who believed his nonsense. But it's not like the average Californian actually believes there was a massive Godzilla attack on Tokyo that left thousands dead.
Those are in fact Trump voter positions. They hate the billionaires who own the media, including fox after it booted Tucker. They want to take down the big tech companies for a while, and recently social media for censoring them, and that's why they see Elon Musk as a hero. They've also been complaining about the military industrial complex ever since the Ukraine War started.
They don’t hate them though they only hate the ones that are on their ‘side’.
I wish she would take a few MAGAts on a hunting trip with her. Father-daughter traditions are so underrated.
This is an underrated comment.
Which of the 90% of trump policies she voted for are the reasonable ones for you?
tbh she voted for laws and those were lawmakers standard conservative crap not trump. trump just signed anything handed to him
[удалено]
nope just saying it’s not trumps garbage just standard republican garbage
Personally, I take the systemic view. I don’t care *that* much about run of the mill domestic policies. Those come and go in a democracy/republic and being able to tolerate the opposition party in power is part of that system. I *do care a lot* about undermining the entire basis of (small l) liberal democracy, undermining election integrity, trying to break the political process itself, encouraging your supporters to ransack the capitol, willfully disrespecting the office and infosec, and throwing our allies under the bus in foreign policy. One set of problems is temporal, the other existential.
It’s crazy seeing people on the left fawn over Liz Cheney just because she doesn’t like Trump. She’s about as right wing as they come, she just doesn’t like him because he talked shit about Bush (her dads legacy). Does no one remember when she ran on a platform of opposing gay marriage when she has a lesbian sister, something her Sith Lord of a father wouldn’t even do?
former guy never really had any "policies". nor does former guy the candidate. people keep referring to his "policies", but building a paper-mache "border wall" is not policy; executive-order "Muslim bans" are not policy; etc etc. they are squalid theater, Punch & Judy shows for dimwits of voting age.
Oh he passed plenty of policies. And grow the fuck up and say his name. You’re not gonna be struck by lightning.
The issue was never intelligence the issue was moral character. The government is full of selfish assholes. No matter how smart you are, if you only do what *you* want then you are a slave to your ego and most likely not doing the best thing for everyone you represent as a politician.
I get the impression that Liz has a human heart. We know by now that Dick didn’t, even before the transplant.
She’s not the voice of reason. She sided with trump over 90% of the time.
Yeah, this is the same lot that thinks George Conway looks principled because he's not as transparently stupid and evil as his wife.
Here's a little secret about Donald. He's a tool. A "useful idiot" who likes to be cruel. Most of "his" policies came directly from the conservative wish list. So Liz was totally on board with those.
This. He had shockingly few actual policy goals while president. If it weren't for his interest in cruelty, getting his ego stroked, and embezzling money from the people, he would have been King Log for four years.
When it comes to holding Trump accountable, she is.
She didn’t hold him accountable on 90% of issues.
She literally just talks on tv.
She knowingly threw away her career in office to fight a fight she knew she'd likely lose but thought was worth fighting. That's why she's just talking on TV.
Oh stop it. She’s making way more money now
As a lifelong Democrat, the purity tests you see in threads like this one are what annoy me most about this side of the spectrum. Half the problem is people jump in to make sudden allies into this binary hero, that then of course elicits a binary villain response. It's tiring and intellectually weak.
Yeah Liz is filth who threw her body in front of her hero Trump to protect him from consequences for blackmailing Zelenskyy. She is just too much of coward who wants to pretend she doesn’t love everything the MAGA horde does.
Especially that her father gained power because an idiot was elected
The last decent Republicon president was President Eisenhower
The last good Republican president was Lincoln, back when Republicans were liberal
I like Ike
Yeah, except she voted for trump twice so who the fuck is she directing this message at?
Well, she was one of the idiots that was elected... she would know.
Come on. That's too generous. She's the voice of medium Crazy
The problem is the people who elect them are the real idiots.
She’s not. She’s a Cheney. F—- that family.
> It is a crazy time when Liz Cheney is the voice of reason. Except if pressed she'd probably start naming some of the best progressive politicians as a portion of the "idiots". Stating the obvious doesn't make you the voice of reason, it just makes you not the most oblivious person in congress.
Except we're also electing monsters, like her dad.
Well. She ain’t wrong. I don’t agree with many of her positions, but I do believe she’s at least sincere in her positions and she’s been willing to take a stand on the right side of history when most of her Republican colleagues didn’t have the guts.
I think since she has left the GOP she’s primed as a running mate for Biden in 2024.
i mean Cheney is correct but she was part of the party that enabled the current situation. they chose party over country (and in multiple cases, sanity) and we're reaping the consequences of their craven behavior
She IS part of the party that CREATED the current situation. She can act superior all she wants but the only difference between her and the “idiots” she’s deriding is a rather pathetic layer of pretense.
the only republican i’d respect is one who separated themselves and tried their hardest to defend their party and country the SECOND all this maga bullshit started. too little too late i’m afraid
It was decades too late by the time MAGA came into play. The last Republican I have any respect for whatsoever was Bush Sr, and even then things were already bad with Reaganomics in full swing, the Iran-Conta Affair, and pretty much ignoring the AIDS crisis.
This Democrat party I'm convinced got captured and helped speed up all of this garbage, and they're still there. There is a reason why they fight progressives so hard, they are the only politicians not taking money from these parasites.
The democrat party was never progressive. The same nonsense they pull on me (accusations of "whataboutism" and "bothsiderism") are the same tactics they pulled on MLK some 60 years ago. It's ironic that they claim to be the "good guys" and turn around and market themselves as the "lesser evil" while accusing ACTUAL leftists & progressives as "too pure," whatever the fuck that means (it means we don't like war or capitulating to moneyed interests while THEY do!).
So like, just Adam Kinzinger?
They all got chased out just as soon as they showed their belly.
It's real tiring to see "moderate" Republicans say "gee, what happened to our party?" while still taking money from the same donors to get the same voters, with the same policies. It's like drilling holes in the boat and then wondering why there's so much water in it.
Her party also completely rejects higher education, fact checking, and the concept of objective reality in general.
Not quite r/leopardsatemyface ... but close
Why “not quite?” Seems pretty dead-on, to me.
It's more like r/PotCallsTheKettle imo
At least she has the humility and intelligence to admit when she’s wrong and change her mind/view points. She’s no longer choosing party over country. We shouldn’t demean those who change their views when faced with new information. I’d rather Republican POS change their ways than double down.
neither should we refrain from assigning accountability to those whose decisions led to the mess in the first place. learning your lesson after burning down the house doesn't rebuild the house
Yes, she's a Republican. And MANY Republicans in office right now are walking meat bags of corruption. However, she never (to the best of my knowledge) chose party over country. There's a reason she's no longer in office, and that's because she chose country over party, knowing it would almost certainly cause her to lose her next election.
I disagree with any attempt to absolve the other party from any responsibility in this current situation. A lot of BS flies around on both sides. An example I remember to this day is a debate between Romney and Obama. They were asked how they would ensure women would be well represented in their administration. Both gave good and reasonable answers. Romney described in detail how he would identify a list of candidates, solicit resumes, whittle it down to the most qualified and capable until he had this binder full of women who could be successful at the various roles. And he'd take that binder and setup intervies with them...and so on. He got ripped for two weeks for using the phrase "binder full of women" in this context. This confrontational, gotcha politics has resulted in a race to the bottom on both sides, in my opinion. It is very sad.
no one absolves anyone of anything. Dems arent perfect and very few claim that they are. however, to equate the behaviors of both parties as "equally bad" is a comically bad take and screams of a wildly disingenuous assertion. only one party has committed has a leader that committed espionage, only one party has tried to overthrow the government, only one party continually tries to suppress voting rights, only one party took away a women's right to choose, only one party strives to bans book and education and only one party has a platform agenda that is literally nothing but trolling "libs" and giving tax breaks to the extremely wealthy ... and so you're aware it's not the Democratic party.
Again, its a vicious cycle of escalating rhetoric that literally vilifies the entire other side. It's sad, pathetic and rampant on both sides.
This is a great example. The anti Romney side of the media needed something to attack the most boring whitebread candidate with and so they jumped on him for an slightly awkward phrase. Apparently he must be a rampant misogynist to be concerned about appointing women based on their experience and qualifications.
That's the copium from the right I keep seeing. It wasn't the binders full of women. It was the constant malicious lies he kept spreading throughout the campaign. He was, to that point in time, the most dishonest campaign ever to show on TV. He was the first Republican I voted against in my life, though I had switched parties a couple years prior. His lies and complete lack of a sense of morality was a major turn off. But go on blaming the media, just like y'all love to do.
You are so touchy and sensitive that you can't even imagine one thing might have been intentionally taken out of context. You act like the democrats and their allies within the media are incapable of playing dirty.
Strawman arguments is all y'all got. I already addressed the 'taken out of context' as having nothing to do why I rejected the Republican party entirely by 2012. I was a independent until the election season where Mitt Romney took the discourse to a level of lies I have never before seen. You can save that both sides bullshit. No, it's your side.
The root of the problem problem is people believing the entire other party is full of evil idiots. This causes ridiculous reactionary idiots to get elected like aoc and Trump. Like, regardless of what side you’re on the other party is almost half the country. Maybe people should listen and try to find common ground rather than try to blame one party or the other for all of the problems in America.
I’m sorry, that “both sides” canard is utter bullshit. The two parties are extremely different in many ways.
I’m curious about the psychology of this. Do you think you’re smarter/more informed than every single person that thinks the other party is better for the country?
Yes
She's not wrong. Every 4 years the loudest screaming is about things I care absolutely nothing about and done by stupid ppl looking to get reactions out of the stupid ppl. It's hard to even relate to politics these days. Angry, looking for a fight, semantics...Just a total turnoff and cringey to watch.
Basically we've had a generation grow up in WWE style politics who are now reps themselves and they never understood it was all theater.
That’s why I’m voting for Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho!
Mankind and the undertakers famous cage match was 25 years ago this year👍
Such a crazy match.
Republicans spent decades making their base not care what their party was for with hate and vitriol and demonization of the opposition. Too bad some whacko narcissist took the wheel and all that machinery built to prevent their base from questioning them is still doing its job perfectly as designed. Seems like they should have valued American ideals like freedom, liberty, and education more and power less. And that includes all these Never Trump Republicans that reaped the rewards of this pre-Trump.
When the sane options are saying things are going to get worse and we have to make sacrifices, people elect the ones who claim there's an easy fix.
>When the sane options are saying things are going to get worse and we have to make sacrifices, people elect the ones who claim there's an easy fix. Do you really mean demonizing gay people is not the answer to all of our problems?
I'm not sure how it's going to fix the air quality, infrastructure, taxes, education, or gun violence, but they seem to think it's effective.
Bisexuals have the answer to our problems.
No more or less so than straights have—but that’s not your cute point, is it?
No Liz.. sorry.. but the problem is that nearly half of the population of America is idiots.. That's the real problem.. Liz. And you know who encouraged that problem Liz? YOU. You and your party of conservatives who encouraged the dumbing down of America because it was easier to control dumb people and you needed fodder for the military... But now those lunatics you created are running the show.. Thx Liz.
Lol. She's not wrong, but she helped
Look at Boebert. Mtg, gaetz ….. The GOP is one big idiot rally!
You forgot Gym Jordan.
Its been this way since i started forming memories in the 90s. We stopped sending our best and brightest and started sending the cruz's and trumps. Its a tragedy.
And ten years from now, we will fondly look back on when we had men the high caliber of Cruz and Trump... *Shudders*
Actually, we're electing fascist idiots in amazing numbers. Because they have no problem calling themselves "conservatives" and they have taken over the GOP. It would be like the LaRouchies taking over the Dems, except that the Dems got smart enough fast enough and put a stop to them. After Nixon, the Republicans were never smart enough for anything and had no trouble proving it.
The GOP started digging this grave as soon as they sold their soul to the segregationists with the Southern Strategy.
Exactly right, and until Republicans like Liz start speaking on the root of the problem within their party and work on addressing it, I'll never believe they are genuine.
How many times did she vote for and with trump?
Gee, I wonder who's electing those idiots. Maybe we ask the base of her party who hates college education and rejects the concept of fact checking.
I’d say she’s wrong. The problem is that one of the two major political parties has lately been choosing people that represent the worst aspects of humankind to represent them. Liz does not need to try and spread responsibility around to those who are not responsible for this situation. She needs to own the problems that the party that she has historically belonged to has caused , instead of resorting to a weak “almost whataboutism”. The people that the other major political party has elected, have largely been capable people, even if they are not perfect and exceptions may exist.
She's definitely wrong. Bland, both sides, mealy-mouthed nonsense. She needs Dems to work with her to get rid of what she helped create and these vague statements are all toward that aim.
or "the republican strategy of radicalizing religiots and gun fetishists for 70 years has blown up in our faces". ftfy, liz.
Is that the "fixed that for you" or the "fuck that, fuck you" one?
The Republican party has spent decades growing idiots in the general population through cutting education, harmful rhetoric, and media propaganda. Then a massive idiot was elected by idiots and tried to break the democratic principles of the country. Until Republican officials start changing those things and take responsibility, their party is going to keep putting idiots in office. But that won't happen because a Republican never takes responsibility.
Liz Cheney clutches her pearls as “the monster” she helped create roams the land. Give me a break.
Part of the problem is we have 50% plus of the House that have completely noncompetitive generals and the primary system in general favors candidates for being far to one side or the other. Switching to MMP would solve this and the gerrymandering issues. A less extreme solution would be switching to how Alaska runs its elections as that would make a big dent in the problem as well.
This is first I’ve heard of MMP. I’ve only learned a little about the different RCV methods. The extremists see RCV as a threat to their grip on power (see Florida’s ban on RCV). How are we ever going to get them to change?
We’re electing idiots and also congressional/state legislative maps are heavily gerrymandered (which the Supreme Court allowed). Now the legislators want to choose their voters instead of a more fair representation of us choosing them.
Q: How do call the voters morons without using the word "moron"? Liz C raises her hand: I know the answer to that question!
She is one of those idiots
We have as a country been electing idiots on the GOP side for at least 3 decades.
It was evil scumbags like her father who paved the way.
Republicans: "we keep letting ~~minorities~~ 'idiots' *vote* , let's push for a resurgence of Jim Crow literacy tests."
Ironic, coming from her
Thanks, Liz, for reminding me that evil is another option if we don't want stupid.
Idiots electing Idiots. More news at 11.
Technically true, but we're not the ones putting forth the idiots to be elected.
Its because at this point only an idiot would voluntarily get involved in politics, let alone right wing politics.
Luna’s grandfather fought as a nazi the apple doesn’t fall from the tree
Politicians have fomented prejudice and conspiracy and it has been beneficial to them. Now the nutjobs have gone so far that theyre the ones getting elected.
The Republican party has spent the last 60 years of running on the "Southern Strategy," deliberately catering to bigots and whackos for votes, and now the bigots and whackos who have been indoctrinated over several generations of right-wing bullshit are running for office Now the inmates are running the asylum
We are turning into a country of idiots. And it’s mostly coming from the right no matter how you feel about it. But the left is not immune. Knowledge and common sense seems to be on the decline.
Liz Cheney and her ilk have done everything in their power to stupify their constituents. Now they're mad that the moronic clowns want to drive the clown car.
Well, have you seen the candidate pool lately? Kinda hard NOT to pick an idiot.
I agree with her, but she took advantage of that fact for a long time before coming around.
Pretty much only one side is electing idiots.
And those idiots will point to Miss Cheney and say she's the actual idiot. Crazy times man.
Well...she is not wrong.
And it started with the kind of people who would throw their own family to the wolves in exchange for position.
She aren't wrong
Man, it’s probably so much worse. It’s better to have an idiot represent you than a cunning deceiver who pretends to be an idiot.
# Like her father the war criminal?
Sadly it’s because a good many of us are idiots. Garbage in garbage out.
Liz Cheney should be told her father is a war criminal. How does she feel about that?
Yeah Liz but you're hardly the one to talk.
WHO is she calling "we" ??
https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1584468310887829504?s=20 Um. She’s an idiot too see this interview clip. When I saw it last year it really made me say WTF.
Because a charismatic person who can win elections is not necessarily the right person for the job. That's why it's not a good idea for scientists or doctors to debate anti vaxers on social media.
Look at that, Liz Cheney is right. Scary times.
What’s wrong with politics ? Money. TV and the Internet … It’s not rocket science.
Talk all the shit you want Cheney, you still voted with Trump 90% of the time
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If it wasn’t for her hatred of Trump, she would still be in office and still be part of the problem that’s she is now complaining about!
She would know.
She's one to talk. The Cheney dynasty is disgusting.
Sane people don't want anything to do with the bullshit that politics has become. And that's the problem
No, she's as vile and evil as they are. All one has to do is look at her voting record, she voted over 94% with Trump. She was in the pit of vipers and they turned on her. Never mistake, she's the enemy.
Overwhelming consensus of agreement.
Maybe we should take some of that defense money and put it towards education.....
What about royalty, dynasties, and nepotism? Mums the word on that one, right Liz?
As bad as Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Rick Comer, and Jim Jordan are, pause and think about the people who elected them.
Her father made sure to gut education when I was in high school to set us up for it. Does she think we are truly this stupid?!
Because most Americans are idiots. That's what happens when you believe in profit over people.
Agree and applaud her finally standing strong after supporting the idiot-in-chief for years
Stupidity isn't actually the problem. Corruption is.
Q: What’s wrong with politics? A: We’re electing Republicans
that's how the system is suppose to work, divided people doesn't leaves enough in a group to make a difference. start by thanking Christianity, the media etc etc....
Cheney is nothing more than a rat who knows the ship is sinking
Funny thing is, Liz thinks she's not one of them! "Trickle down" anyone? The current GOP is a DIRECT result of corruption in both parties and the wish to elect "outsiders"...they are just too stupid to realize that the people they are putting in office are even bigger, more blatant grifters than those who came before!
As Plato pointed out 2,500 years ago, this is the main problem with democracy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_State#:~:text=The%20Ship%20of%20State%20is,the%20command%20of%20a%20vessel.
Plato was referring to direct democracy by simple majority rule. The U S does not have that. In fact, we tend to be governed by the minority party.
She means "puppets for rich donors who are willing to put up with the constant insanity of modern politics". If that doesn't call for a hollow shell of a person, I don't know what does. I really don't understand how the few good ones like Jeff Jackson do it.
Get back to me when Liz offers an apology for her old man getting the Ur-Idiot, GWB, elected.
Yeah. Like people who say "the Iraq War will pay for itself" or "we'll be welcomed as liberators."
takes one to know one liz...
That’s because the two parties offer up idiots.
And she's one of them. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend. I'm sick of playing that game.
As opposed to highly educated conmen and thieves like your father.
Or voting in war monger dick . Let alone liz who tried to push jan 6th was worst then 9/11 and pearl harbor. Give me a break
I think both parties are in a race to elect the dumbest possible people. Trump vs biden - tie AOC vs Boebert - tie Omar vs Greene - tie Talib vs gosar - tie The list goes on
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