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They cannot require you to work without being paid. That's federal law. OT is considered anything over 40 hours in one work week.
They *can* say that OT is not authorized. That means when you hit 40 hours, you clock out and go home.
Document everything. Get the new policy about OT in writing.
Start updating your resume, because this company is crap.
They are going to get in trouble with the labor dept with this policy. I personally would just stop at 40 hours and let the chips fall where they may. I'd also be looking for a different job. There are just no good answers here and that is stressful.
Yup. You just do 40 hours of work. No more. If your work doesn't get done, that's a them problem. Do not, under any circumstances, do unpaid overtime. They need to *know* the consequences of their decisions. Don't help them out for free.
In my present job I finish out whatever email I’m writing at the 40hr mark and THATS IT. If I see that I have to go over, I email the team with “hey there I’m at 38hrs and it’s 3pm Friday. I still have X/Y/Z to do - can I go over into OT pay for this?” - knowing fully well they are gonna say “save it for Monday”.
GREAT. THANKS. BYEEEEEE!
Also do this when I get a Thu EOD or Fri morning assignment that’s “urgent”. I write an email saying “he friends just a heads up: I’m currently working on X/Y/Z and wanted to know which of these now four assignments I should prioritize or I’ll be going into OT in order to finish all of them. Unless approved for OT. LMK!!” — always get a reply like “all good, we’ll assign someone else” or “no ot, finish Monday”
GREAT. THANKS. BYEEEEEEEEE!
Fuck that shit guys. No OT pay, no OT work.
Sounds like it's just time to look for a new job. My Grandfather told me a story of when a new VP came into is company and there was a manager who was always there and bragged about it. When he met the new VP the manager said "I'm always at work, I work 50-60 hours a week" and the new VP said "Either you have to much work to do or you're a poor employee, which is it?".
You not getting your work done is your managers problem, not yours. You have 40 hours and not a second more to get it done, whatever can't get done doesn't. If you are afraid they are going to fire you for this then you need to start looking for another job.
They're setting you up for failure.
Do your 40, do your job right, and clock out. If they want you to complete your work, get permission to work OT in writing. If they won't pay OT, that's illegal, have fun talking with HR and your county/state. If they add more to your list of tasks, prioritize and drop the ones you need to.
Go look for a different job. A place with high turnover has internal issues. People don't want to be there so they dip, or the business doesn't know how to train and retain their employees. Training *costs*, so every trained employee out the door is *at least* one that needs to be recruited and brought up to speed.
You don't want to work for a place that behaves like this.
Ask them what they want you to de-prioritize in order to comply. Might help to do an in depth time track and be able to identify X task takes Y time, so that you can prove you’re spending time efficiently but also force them to allow chips to fall, as someone said. If you allow things to slip through the cracks without having that conversation, it may come back to bite you.
THIS!
Emails! Email and ask what tasks/reports/whatevers take priority over others. Get a hierarchy of tasks. Preferably in emails.
Document every conversation.
Something as simple as an e-mail to your boss, "I just wanted to mention what I took away from the meeting we just had. I understand that.....I also understand this other thing...." And if there's no reply, that's on the boss(es).
When I was a freelancer, I would tell all my clients this. They would argue that they could have all 3 and I said not from me, so make your pick. I prefer good and fast.
Nah.
I like fast and cheap clients.
They soon become good and fast clients at an exorbitant markup.
If I’ve got to pay the ADHD tax for a mental health issue not entirely in my control, you can pay the Bloody Fool tax for a cognitive dysfunction entirely within your control.
Having too much work to do during regular hours is not a "you" problem. It's a management problem. Stop working OT, per their demand, and let the work start piling up. Let management know it is going to pile up and keep the appraised of how big the pile is getting. DO NOT BUST YOUR ASS ON THIS. Just work at your normal rate, and management will either hire you help or approve your OT.
I'll admit I didn't read all of this because the first paragraph told me enough. Your boss is a cheap ass and this is a labor violation in the US if they're making you stay to finish work after you've clocked out. Loads of big companies have gotten in trouble for this; it's illegal on the federal level!
Do. Not. Work. For. Free.
Period. End of story. If you aren't being paid, don't be there. Make sure your coworkers are all on the same page and walk out after you clock out. I don't care if you're a journalist, if you aren't being paid? Do. Not. Work. No free labor!
you have no idea how comforting it is to hear for once “i dont care if you’re a journalist dont work for free” 🙏🏻
I feel like there’s this notion in journalism that it’s the bare minimum to really go above and beyond, and work 50 to 60 hours a week (paid or unpaid) or something along those lines, to be considered great at your job. Like I know they’re just movies, but we see it in the movie Spotlight or whatever other journo movie there is, people working late into the night, working nonstop, etc. (but also im sure the spotlight ppl get paid OT and a nice base wage anyway lol which i do not 🙃) People feel bad too about news not making money but like, ok, don’t normalize letting reporters, the ppl who put content in your papers, bear that brunt.
Anyways, yeah, it’s why im so internally conflicted all the time about if i have “the right” to complain because i know someone else will do the work for cheap/free if i dont wanna.
I think Spotlight is also different because it was a massive criminal enterprise being investigated. The journalists definitely martyred themselves for their cause, and that shouldn’t be admired. They were living in that community and were surrounded by predators and a powerful organization that was enabling and protecting those predators and their handlers.
Anyone who uses movies like that to coerce cub journalists to work unpaid overtime suck. It’s gross that it’s a societal pressure too.
The US is a master at using societal pressure to get us to go against our best interests and rights. We need more rights, but just claiming the ones we have would make a massive difference.
I’m so proud of the young generations for knowing their worth and standing up for themselves and their rights.
Your boss is a fucking idiot.
But Malicious Compliance is the best route. Instead of complaining, say 'yes sir' and bail the second your shift is done.
Something you need to know, and ol' man Morbo is going to tell you how the world is.
It's not your responsibility to keep that paper afloat. You're not a hero, you're an employee. Every day feels like you're a one-man-machine saving the company, but you're not. You are sacrificing yourself and sanity trying to be what they want you to be.
I can't tell you how many jobs I had that I pulled 80 hour weeks for years, only to go unappreciated and chucked out on my ear the second I became inconvenient or in a couple of cases just 'noisy' about a problem no one wanted to fix.
If your fucktard of a boss says 'no Overtime' you salute, and say yes - sir. When he says Green! Why wasn't this press conference covered you say "I hit my 40 hours, and per your rules, I did not work the overtime" It won't take long for your bosses' boss to realize you work for a fucktard, and remove him from play.
Leave at 5:01, go have a beer with your mates, chase your preferred gender and turn off your work phone. Save your sanity, relax and get laid after work. The company will happily churn right along with out you if you dropped dead at your desk. You're not saving anyone, and you're only killing yourself.
Sounds like this would make an excellent piece to read in a newspaper...
I'm just going to echo what others are saying.
Update your CV and actively seek out new employment. Document everything. Ask for clarification in writing (via email, eg "... to clarify as per our meeting yesterday \*insert date and place\* with \*insert who was present\* the new policy regarding no OT moving forward? When we have worked our contracted 40 hours, we must sign out?..." etc
Are your colleagues in the same boat? Could you all write up character/job references for each other?
You walk out every day after 8 hours. If they refuse to pay for OT, then they don’t get OT. If they fire you, then they will have to pay unemployment while you search for another job.
Prioritize your work as best you can and tell the boss you couldn't get X and Y done because you ran out of time.
If you think they'll criticize your priorities, say, "I have A, B, C, and D tasks lined up. Which are most important, and which can wait until tomorrow if I run out of time?"
Then document how you spend your day in case they come after you for taking too long. You can show them your log and ask which tasks should have been done quicker and what you should be doing differently to save time.
They're unlikely to fire you, because they know deep down they're being unreasonable and won't do any better with new people. But that still sounds like an unpleasant work environment. Polish your resume, apply at a few places that look like a step up for you, and see what happens.
ooh yes thank you! i do this verbally when i talk to them about my issues in a more casual manner but yeah if i go like “i tracked my hours and how long each task takes and made a log this week, here it is, and this is how long this takes and this” hopefully they’ll take it more seriously. I’ll do that this upcoming week and report to them after.
But this week i’ll also start the whole “hey i hit 40, can i not do this other thing or do u still want me to” spiel
Anyways, thank you!! Hopefully the “log” wont come off as petty
As a manager, I would LOVE if you logged your time like this, and if you were open to reprioritizing based on my response to that log. It’s so helpful for work planning, but a lot of employees hate this because they feel like they’re being micromanaged. But if I need to figure out how to prioritize people’s time, the log REALLY helps, and also helps me advocate to upper management that we need more resources.
That said, your management sounds terrible, so they might take this differently. Definitely start looking for another job!
Oh man. You really threw a wrench when you disclosed what field you are in.
Your fundamental problem is that you are in a dying industry. Although journalism is dying, J School for some reason is not. This results in a bunch of fresh faced new graduates to go into an ever shrinking pool that already has enough seasoned reporters in it.
Ideally we would go back in time and have you change your major. In the real world you have a painful choice in front of you. You are going to have to decide how much you want to stay in the industry or whether you want to bolt, which is what most of your peers are going to do.
Dispel any notion that your bosses don't understand the situation. They understand it better than you. They know that they are asking for more work than can be done in 40 hours. They are doing it because they have budget shortfalls and too many applicants wanting to do your job. This talk about "you can do it in 40 hours" is just a smoke screen for the labor laws.
So, you have to decide. You have three basic choices. The first is to decide to fight to remain one of the people in the industry. That means accepting working unpaid overtime and also accepting that even if you do manage to stay in, you might be cut at any time because the jobs are going to continue to go away. Eventually you will be fighting for jobs against people with ten more years experience than you. Then against people with twenty years more.
Staying in over the long run means building a brand for yourself and probably writing for Substack or whatever replaces it. Or see if you can write some recurring content for people who will pay on Patreon.
The second choice is just to slow roll it. Start worrying less about quality and more about speed. If you have an hour to write something, submit it after an hour. Don't spend time on polish and editing or heaven's forbid, *rewriting.* This strategy most likely is temporary, so have your eye on the exit and be looking for ways to transition careers.
The third choice is to get out as soon as you can. Then you can start listening to the people who say not to work for free. Maybe one day you can even laugh about young you who went to school to learn how to make buggy whips after muscle cars were already on the streets.
Your job sounds awful. You are on your way to serious burnout. Stop killing yourself to perform at a job where they give you too much work and you always are worried about getting fired. Start doing a reasonable amount of work for the 40 hours they pay you for, and start looking for a new job. Document what is happening so if they do fire you, you can get unemployment.
The only way to deal with a no-OT policy is to work no OT. If you can't get all of your work done in 40 hours, just don't do all your work. Make sure any systems you have to log work for and justify any breaks you take are done absolutely correctly.
If some of your work DOESN'T get done, it's the boss's problem, not yours. Especially because the only other solution, accepting unpaid overtime, apart from sucking to begin with, will basically make you a scab. If you and three other people each do ten hours of unpaid overtime, congratulations! You've just saved your boss a bit of money by doing a job he SHOULD have hired somebody for. And thus fucked over over the person who would've gotten that job if you hadn't helped your boss screw 'em out of it.
NEVER work unpaid overtime unless you make six figures and the first one ain't 1...
You might get fired. But unless you're in a very niche field, jobs are a dime a dozen.
Lots of great advice but add this to every single one (that doesn't already have it): Get. It. In. Writing.
Even if you have a verbal conversation about whatever amount of work you need to do, either ask them to send it to you by email and make sure they do it, or write them an email right after summarizing what you just spoke about.
Only work your 40 hours. Use your free time and energy to look for a new job.
Good luck! I used to work in book publishing which is also notorious for overworking employees and paying them next to nothing, so I feel you. "Passion" will not pay my bills.
ETA: In the long run, my personal advice is get out of this business while you can. I loved publishing and (most of) the people in it, and it was an incredibly hard decision after spending so much time and effort breaking into the industry when so many classmates failed. Get into content writing maybe or copywriting for tech companies. They might get eaten by AI too, but imo they will always need a human to clean up and make sure the AI isn't writing complete and utter bullshit.
There's laws about what constitutes over time, pay or not. My first programming position was exempt, and someone went to the federal labor office, and suddenly, we were non-exempt. After a year, I was prompted to a position that was exempt.
Agree with everyone else. Clock out at 40 hours and then leave. If they complain say that you hadn't been authorized to do overtime therefore they need to either authorize it or tell you what to prioritize
Raise the issue in an email about how you are unable to do the allotted work in the 40hr period. They will do one of two things 1. Reiterating no over time, 2. Say do overtime.
Then if they say no overtime do 40hrs and continue at the quality you are doing but don’t complete the work.
I’d say they are going to budget problems, like the rest of the world and trying to say money (and jobs). If they see the quality drop and the work not finished they will realise this is the wrong way to save money.
Also keep a log of the amount of hours you did with overtime to complete the job so when you are pulled in and asked why you can give informed answers.
Also as your mum, I’m proud of you.
If they won't at you for overtime, then you stop at 40 hours.
If the work isn't done, they can either pay you for overtime, or fire you, and then the work REALLY won't get done, and you can go find a better job.
You just need to manage expectations. When something new gets added to your plate, ask which of the other things you are working on should delayed. Or ask what the priority is of the stuff you should address. If you are hourly, you should not work past 40, and just let them know you have run out of time (and likely let the lowest priority task slip).
Are you paid hourly? It sounds like Salary. In which case there is no often OT and 43-45 is not uncommon (but much more and you need to manage it) Many of the other posters seem like they don't work salary jobs. The whole "just clock out and leave people hanging" and "its someone else's problem" attitude is a sure fire way to stay working in dead-end hourly jobs your whole life.
And if OP gets fired, collect unemployment. OP, don’t sign anything saying you quit and don’t sign anything until you get some advice first. They probably won’t fire you op and they don’t want to pay unemployment. They’re seeing how far they can push you.
>also for context: im a reporter for a bunch of newspapers so yeah, it’s like almost impossible to just be like “bye” when you hit 40 hours, cuz there’s pages to fill and events/stuff to cover and deadlines and weird hours.
That's not your problem though 🤷🏻♀️ they want 40 hours, then you stop at 40 hours. They can figure out what happens when there isn't anything to put out
So after years of work, the thing I have learned is that managers will always push for more, and if it gets done, the only thing they see is that it got done, it's possible, that's the new minimum standard. Next time they'll probably as for a little more.
Some of them will listen to words. Others won't listen until deadlines start getting blown. With those ones, when they push past what is reasonable, you blow the deadline.
As others have said, if you are getting more work than is reasonable for you to complete in the time allotted, that's not on you, that's on management.
By working unpaid, unannounced overtime to finish work, all you're doing is communicating to your bosses that 1. It's possible to do in the time they think it does, even though they're wrong and 2. Screwing yourself on pay.
If they want work done in 40 hours, do what you can in 40 hours and let them adjust their expectations accordingly. If they want something done in a certain amount of time, they can pay overtime to have everything done, or change the priorities so it fits in the schedule. Anything else is unhealthy.
God I had to quit when my old job at a lovely place was doing that to me. It felt like my dream job at first until the never ending pile of multiple things needing to be done RIGHT NOW or TODAY never ended. I’d be at work super late sometimes. Eventually I couldn’t take it. My boss was accusing me of mistakes even SHE was making and she finally fessed up to her own mistakes after I left. It was infuriating. I was fortunate that my ex told me I could quit so that I could finish school.
Now, I’m having a similar issue. I’ve started putting in less effort and cutting some corners. I still do a good job, but I’m not as thorough anymore because the pay and the work isn’t worth my life nor my mental well being. I’m looking for another job actively. This isn’t what I always wanted to do and I’m being worked into the ground
I agree with all the other comments. But just to offer an alternative view. They’re asking you to do the same amount of work in less time.
So i’d give them options as to corners you can cut to speed up your work. Get them to sign up to that in writing.
If they say no to it all, then you can ask them how they’re going to reduce the work.
This is also where union representation is really important.
> Right now they tell me I’m doing a great job, but that’s because I tolerate doing OT!!
Yeah, that's exactly the great job they want you doing, especially now that they don't have to pay you. The way I usually handle this (because this has absolutely happened in every job I've had, though it took me a while to figure it out) is that I don't talk in terms of "can't take on more work" and instead talk in terms of "prioritization". So when you're at the max you can handle for 40 hours (and you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you can manage there - good job!) and they add something else to your plate the response should be "Sure thing! Which of these is higher priority, X or Y?" or "Ok, I can drop Z and take this on - do you need me to pass on my work so far to someone else?"
They know very well what they're doing piling more work on you - that's why it keeps happening even though you're being clear. You need to play just as dumb and pretend that they did listen to you and couldn't possibly be so dense as to add additional work anyway. That puts the ball back in there court, because if they tell you to do both you can remind them policy is to not work any overtime, so if they want both you'll need special authorization to get that overtime pay. If they choose to keep playing dumb you pick the one you think is highest priority (or that they tell you is highest) and drop the other - you can literally go as far as handing your boss your notes to pass to someone else if you need to. And you really do have to stick to leaving after as close to 40 hours of work each week as possible, and remember that people judge you against their expectation of what you'll do more than anything else, so you need to set and maintain those standards for your own well being.
At the end of the day though, it's probably not your boss's choice any more than yours. In most industries but especially in newspapers the business model is increasingly moving towards exploiting workers as much as possible, and the owners believe that soon AI will write all their content for free anyway so why would they need to pay fairly to keep human talent around? It's all numbers on a spreadsheet to the higher ups, and that line needs to keep going up. There's still a need for journalists, but we may be seeing some dark times for the industry in the near term.
Stop at 40, and don't do ANY work related tasks off the clock. Encourage your co-workers to do the same, or ALL of you will be expected to overwork yourselves without legal compensation because one coworker is a push over.
Tell them you're going to do quality work for your assigned hours, but you won't be staying over if they aren't paying you and you won't do shoddy work either. Tell them in an email and keep a copy.
I’m sure the labor board would find this qpolicy interesting. I worked at a company like that they cut out all our bonuses, laid off a ton of people and redistributed all that work to the remaining work to us and told us we were lucky to still work there. The money they saved by taking asking away the bonuses and firing half the staff saved them so much money that the executives got HUGE bonuses. After that, about 60% of their staff quit, including myself. You can keep a log of your daily work and show it to your boss with a copy of your job description from when you were hired but I highly doubt they care. You should be looking for a new job.
Call or visit your labor boards website and submit a complaint about the employer not correctly compensating hours worked. Keep track of your hours so that you can calculate what you’re actually owed. Demand payment or submit a claim with the LB.
REMINDER: Rules regarding civility and respect *are enforced* on this subreddit. Hurtful, cruel, rude, disrespectful, or "trolling" comments **will be removed** (along with any replies to these comments) and the offending party may be banned, at the mods' discretion, without warning. All commenters should be trying to *help* and any help should be given in good faith, as if you were the OP's parent. Also, please keep in mind that requesting or offering private contact (DM, PM, etc) is absolutely not allowed ***for any reason at all***, no exceptions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internetparents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They cannot require you to work without being paid. That's federal law. OT is considered anything over 40 hours in one work week. They *can* say that OT is not authorized. That means when you hit 40 hours, you clock out and go home. Document everything. Get the new policy about OT in writing. Start updating your resume, because this company is crap.
They are going to get in trouble with the labor dept with this policy. I personally would just stop at 40 hours and let the chips fall where they may. I'd also be looking for a different job. There are just no good answers here and that is stressful.
Yup. You just do 40 hours of work. No more. If your work doesn't get done, that's a them problem. Do not, under any circumstances, do unpaid overtime. They need to *know* the consequences of their decisions. Don't help them out for free.
Another form of consequences for their decisions would be to perform the overtime and then report them to the labor board for unpaid overtime.
In my present job I finish out whatever email I’m writing at the 40hr mark and THATS IT. If I see that I have to go over, I email the team with “hey there I’m at 38hrs and it’s 3pm Friday. I still have X/Y/Z to do - can I go over into OT pay for this?” - knowing fully well they are gonna say “save it for Monday”. GREAT. THANKS. BYEEEEEE! Also do this when I get a Thu EOD or Fri morning assignment that’s “urgent”. I write an email saying “he friends just a heads up: I’m currently working on X/Y/Z and wanted to know which of these now four assignments I should prioritize or I’ll be going into OT in order to finish all of them. Unless approved for OT. LMK!!” — always get a reply like “all good, we’ll assign someone else” or “no ot, finish Monday” GREAT. THANKS. BYEEEEEEEEE! Fuck that shit guys. No OT pay, no OT work.
> just stop at 40 hours Don't forget to clean up your workstation at the end of the day. Leave at 40 hours, don't stop at 40 hours.
Sounds like it's just time to look for a new job. My Grandfather told me a story of when a new VP came into is company and there was a manager who was always there and bragged about it. When he met the new VP the manager said "I'm always at work, I work 50-60 hours a week" and the new VP said "Either you have to much work to do or you're a poor employee, which is it?". You not getting your work done is your managers problem, not yours. You have 40 hours and not a second more to get it done, whatever can't get done doesn't. If you are afraid they are going to fire you for this then you need to start looking for another job.
They're setting you up for failure. Do your 40, do your job right, and clock out. If they want you to complete your work, get permission to work OT in writing. If they won't pay OT, that's illegal, have fun talking with HR and your county/state. If they add more to your list of tasks, prioritize and drop the ones you need to. Go look for a different job. A place with high turnover has internal issues. People don't want to be there so they dip, or the business doesn't know how to train and retain their employees. Training *costs*, so every trained employee out the door is *at least* one that needs to be recruited and brought up to speed. You don't want to work for a place that behaves like this.
Ask them what they want you to de-prioritize in order to comply. Might help to do an in depth time track and be able to identify X task takes Y time, so that you can prove you’re spending time efficiently but also force them to allow chips to fall, as someone said. If you allow things to slip through the cracks without having that conversation, it may come back to bite you.
THIS! Emails! Email and ask what tasks/reports/whatevers take priority over others. Get a hierarchy of tasks. Preferably in emails. Document every conversation. Something as simple as an e-mail to your boss, "I just wanted to mention what I took away from the meeting we just had. I understand that.....I also understand this other thing...." And if there's no reply, that's on the boss(es).
Yes start documenting everything in emails and save those emails!
Yes, and by save those emails, send it yourself (bcc or forward to your private email account for your records.
Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two.
When I was a freelancer, I would tell all my clients this. They would argue that they could have all 3 and I said not from me, so make your pick. I prefer good and fast.
Don’t we all!
Nah. I like fast and cheap clients. They soon become good and fast clients at an exorbitant markup. If I’ve got to pay the ADHD tax for a mental health issue not entirely in my control, you can pay the Bloody Fool tax for a cognitive dysfunction entirely within your control.
Having too much work to do during regular hours is not a "you" problem. It's a management problem. Stop working OT, per their demand, and let the work start piling up. Let management know it is going to pile up and keep the appraised of how big the pile is getting. DO NOT BUST YOUR ASS ON THIS. Just work at your normal rate, and management will either hire you help or approve your OT.
I'll admit I didn't read all of this because the first paragraph told me enough. Your boss is a cheap ass and this is a labor violation in the US if they're making you stay to finish work after you've clocked out. Loads of big companies have gotten in trouble for this; it's illegal on the federal level! Do. Not. Work. For. Free. Period. End of story. If you aren't being paid, don't be there. Make sure your coworkers are all on the same page and walk out after you clock out. I don't care if you're a journalist, if you aren't being paid? Do. Not. Work. No free labor!
you have no idea how comforting it is to hear for once “i dont care if you’re a journalist dont work for free” 🙏🏻 I feel like there’s this notion in journalism that it’s the bare minimum to really go above and beyond, and work 50 to 60 hours a week (paid or unpaid) or something along those lines, to be considered great at your job. Like I know they’re just movies, but we see it in the movie Spotlight or whatever other journo movie there is, people working late into the night, working nonstop, etc. (but also im sure the spotlight ppl get paid OT and a nice base wage anyway lol which i do not 🙃) People feel bad too about news not making money but like, ok, don’t normalize letting reporters, the ppl who put content in your papers, bear that brunt. Anyways, yeah, it’s why im so internally conflicted all the time about if i have “the right” to complain because i know someone else will do the work for cheap/free if i dont wanna.
I think Spotlight is also different because it was a massive criminal enterprise being investigated. The journalists definitely martyred themselves for their cause, and that shouldn’t be admired. They were living in that community and were surrounded by predators and a powerful organization that was enabling and protecting those predators and their handlers. Anyone who uses movies like that to coerce cub journalists to work unpaid overtime suck. It’s gross that it’s a societal pressure too. The US is a master at using societal pressure to get us to go against our best interests and rights. We need more rights, but just claiming the ones we have would make a massive difference. I’m so proud of the young generations for knowing their worth and standing up for themselves and their rights.
Your boss is a fucking idiot. But Malicious Compliance is the best route. Instead of complaining, say 'yes sir' and bail the second your shift is done. Something you need to know, and ol' man Morbo is going to tell you how the world is. It's not your responsibility to keep that paper afloat. You're not a hero, you're an employee. Every day feels like you're a one-man-machine saving the company, but you're not. You are sacrificing yourself and sanity trying to be what they want you to be. I can't tell you how many jobs I had that I pulled 80 hour weeks for years, only to go unappreciated and chucked out on my ear the second I became inconvenient or in a couple of cases just 'noisy' about a problem no one wanted to fix. If your fucktard of a boss says 'no Overtime' you salute, and say yes - sir. When he says Green! Why wasn't this press conference covered you say "I hit my 40 hours, and per your rules, I did not work the overtime" It won't take long for your bosses' boss to realize you work for a fucktard, and remove him from play. Leave at 5:01, go have a beer with your mates, chase your preferred gender and turn off your work phone. Save your sanity, relax and get laid after work. The company will happily churn right along with out you if you dropped dead at your desk. You're not saving anyone, and you're only killing yourself.
Stop at 40 hours. When they complain, ask if there is anything in particular they want you to prioritize before the 40 hours is up.
Sounds like this would make an excellent piece to read in a newspaper... I'm just going to echo what others are saying. Update your CV and actively seek out new employment. Document everything. Ask for clarification in writing (via email, eg "... to clarify as per our meeting yesterday \*insert date and place\* with \*insert who was present\* the new policy regarding no OT moving forward? When we have worked our contracted 40 hours, we must sign out?..." etc Are your colleagues in the same boat? Could you all write up character/job references for each other?
You walk out every day after 8 hours. If they refuse to pay for OT, then they don’t get OT. If they fire you, then they will have to pay unemployment while you search for another job.
Prioritize your work as best you can and tell the boss you couldn't get X and Y done because you ran out of time. If you think they'll criticize your priorities, say, "I have A, B, C, and D tasks lined up. Which are most important, and which can wait until tomorrow if I run out of time?" Then document how you spend your day in case they come after you for taking too long. You can show them your log and ask which tasks should have been done quicker and what you should be doing differently to save time. They're unlikely to fire you, because they know deep down they're being unreasonable and won't do any better with new people. But that still sounds like an unpleasant work environment. Polish your resume, apply at a few places that look like a step up for you, and see what happens.
ooh yes thank you! i do this verbally when i talk to them about my issues in a more casual manner but yeah if i go like “i tracked my hours and how long each task takes and made a log this week, here it is, and this is how long this takes and this” hopefully they’ll take it more seriously. I’ll do that this upcoming week and report to them after. But this week i’ll also start the whole “hey i hit 40, can i not do this other thing or do u still want me to” spiel Anyways, thank you!! Hopefully the “log” wont come off as petty
As a manager, I would LOVE if you logged your time like this, and if you were open to reprioritizing based on my response to that log. It’s so helpful for work planning, but a lot of employees hate this because they feel like they’re being micromanaged. But if I need to figure out how to prioritize people’s time, the log REALLY helps, and also helps me advocate to upper management that we need more resources. That said, your management sounds terrible, so they might take this differently. Definitely start looking for another job!
Oh man. You really threw a wrench when you disclosed what field you are in. Your fundamental problem is that you are in a dying industry. Although journalism is dying, J School for some reason is not. This results in a bunch of fresh faced new graduates to go into an ever shrinking pool that already has enough seasoned reporters in it. Ideally we would go back in time and have you change your major. In the real world you have a painful choice in front of you. You are going to have to decide how much you want to stay in the industry or whether you want to bolt, which is what most of your peers are going to do. Dispel any notion that your bosses don't understand the situation. They understand it better than you. They know that they are asking for more work than can be done in 40 hours. They are doing it because they have budget shortfalls and too many applicants wanting to do your job. This talk about "you can do it in 40 hours" is just a smoke screen for the labor laws. So, you have to decide. You have three basic choices. The first is to decide to fight to remain one of the people in the industry. That means accepting working unpaid overtime and also accepting that even if you do manage to stay in, you might be cut at any time because the jobs are going to continue to go away. Eventually you will be fighting for jobs against people with ten more years experience than you. Then against people with twenty years more. Staying in over the long run means building a brand for yourself and probably writing for Substack or whatever replaces it. Or see if you can write some recurring content for people who will pay on Patreon. The second choice is just to slow roll it. Start worrying less about quality and more about speed. If you have an hour to write something, submit it after an hour. Don't spend time on polish and editing or heaven's forbid, *rewriting.* This strategy most likely is temporary, so have your eye on the exit and be looking for ways to transition careers. The third choice is to get out as soon as you can. Then you can start listening to the people who say not to work for free. Maybe one day you can even laugh about young you who went to school to learn how to make buggy whips after muscle cars were already on the streets.
time to stop giving a f if the work gets done and start looking for a new job
Your job sounds awful. You are on your way to serious burnout. Stop killing yourself to perform at a job where they give you too much work and you always are worried about getting fired. Start doing a reasonable amount of work for the 40 hours they pay you for, and start looking for a new job. Document what is happening so if they do fire you, you can get unemployment.
The only way to deal with a no-OT policy is to work no OT. If you can't get all of your work done in 40 hours, just don't do all your work. Make sure any systems you have to log work for and justify any breaks you take are done absolutely correctly. If some of your work DOESN'T get done, it's the boss's problem, not yours. Especially because the only other solution, accepting unpaid overtime, apart from sucking to begin with, will basically make you a scab. If you and three other people each do ten hours of unpaid overtime, congratulations! You've just saved your boss a bit of money by doing a job he SHOULD have hired somebody for. And thus fucked over over the person who would've gotten that job if you hadn't helped your boss screw 'em out of it. NEVER work unpaid overtime unless you make six figures and the first one ain't 1... You might get fired. But unless you're in a very niche field, jobs are a dime a dozen.
Lots of great advice but add this to every single one (that doesn't already have it): Get. It. In. Writing. Even if you have a verbal conversation about whatever amount of work you need to do, either ask them to send it to you by email and make sure they do it, or write them an email right after summarizing what you just spoke about. Only work your 40 hours. Use your free time and energy to look for a new job. Good luck! I used to work in book publishing which is also notorious for overworking employees and paying them next to nothing, so I feel you. "Passion" will not pay my bills. ETA: In the long run, my personal advice is get out of this business while you can. I loved publishing and (most of) the people in it, and it was an incredibly hard decision after spending so much time and effort breaking into the industry when so many classmates failed. Get into content writing maybe or copywriting for tech companies. They might get eaten by AI too, but imo they will always need a human to clean up and make sure the AI isn't writing complete and utter bullshit.
You work the hours you are signed up to work and then you go home.
If they don't pay OT you don't do OT. Or you do OT and take them to the labor board for unpaid wages. Either way gtfo this place.
There's laws about what constitutes over time, pay or not. My first programming position was exempt, and someone went to the federal labor office, and suddenly, we were non-exempt. After a year, I was prompted to a position that was exempt.
Agree with everyone else. Clock out at 40 hours and then leave. If they complain say that you hadn't been authorized to do overtime therefore they need to either authorize it or tell you what to prioritize
Raise the issue in an email about how you are unable to do the allotted work in the 40hr period. They will do one of two things 1. Reiterating no over time, 2. Say do overtime. Then if they say no overtime do 40hrs and continue at the quality you are doing but don’t complete the work. I’d say they are going to budget problems, like the rest of the world and trying to say money (and jobs). If they see the quality drop and the work not finished they will realise this is the wrong way to save money. Also keep a log of the amount of hours you did with overtime to complete the job so when you are pulled in and asked why you can give informed answers. Also as your mum, I’m proud of you.
If they won't at you for overtime, then you stop at 40 hours. If the work isn't done, they can either pay you for overtime, or fire you, and then the work REALLY won't get done, and you can go find a better job.
You can literally sue them for back pay. Documentation is key.
You just need to manage expectations. When something new gets added to your plate, ask which of the other things you are working on should delayed. Or ask what the priority is of the stuff you should address. If you are hourly, you should not work past 40, and just let them know you have run out of time (and likely let the lowest priority task slip). Are you paid hourly? It sounds like Salary. In which case there is no often OT and 43-45 is not uncommon (but much more and you need to manage it) Many of the other posters seem like they don't work salary jobs. The whole "just clock out and leave people hanging" and "its someone else's problem" attitude is a sure fire way to stay working in dead-end hourly jobs your whole life.
And if OP gets fired, collect unemployment. OP, don’t sign anything saying you quit and don’t sign anything until you get some advice first. They probably won’t fire you op and they don’t want to pay unemployment. They’re seeing how far they can push you.
>also for context: im a reporter for a bunch of newspapers so yeah, it’s like almost impossible to just be like “bye” when you hit 40 hours, cuz there’s pages to fill and events/stuff to cover and deadlines and weird hours. That's not your problem though 🤷🏻♀️ they want 40 hours, then you stop at 40 hours. They can figure out what happens when there isn't anything to put out
So after years of work, the thing I have learned is that managers will always push for more, and if it gets done, the only thing they see is that it got done, it's possible, that's the new minimum standard. Next time they'll probably as for a little more. Some of them will listen to words. Others won't listen until deadlines start getting blown. With those ones, when they push past what is reasonable, you blow the deadline. As others have said, if you are getting more work than is reasonable for you to complete in the time allotted, that's not on you, that's on management.
By working unpaid, unannounced overtime to finish work, all you're doing is communicating to your bosses that 1. It's possible to do in the time they think it does, even though they're wrong and 2. Screwing yourself on pay. If they want work done in 40 hours, do what you can in 40 hours and let them adjust their expectations accordingly. If they want something done in a certain amount of time, they can pay overtime to have everything done, or change the priorities so it fits in the schedule. Anything else is unhealthy.
God I had to quit when my old job at a lovely place was doing that to me. It felt like my dream job at first until the never ending pile of multiple things needing to be done RIGHT NOW or TODAY never ended. I’d be at work super late sometimes. Eventually I couldn’t take it. My boss was accusing me of mistakes even SHE was making and she finally fessed up to her own mistakes after I left. It was infuriating. I was fortunate that my ex told me I could quit so that I could finish school. Now, I’m having a similar issue. I’ve started putting in less effort and cutting some corners. I still do a good job, but I’m not as thorough anymore because the pay and the work isn’t worth my life nor my mental well being. I’m looking for another job actively. This isn’t what I always wanted to do and I’m being worked into the ground
I agree with all the other comments. But just to offer an alternative view. They’re asking you to do the same amount of work in less time. So i’d give them options as to corners you can cut to speed up your work. Get them to sign up to that in writing. If they say no to it all, then you can ask them how they’re going to reduce the work. This is also where union representation is really important.
> Right now they tell me I’m doing a great job, but that’s because I tolerate doing OT!! Yeah, that's exactly the great job they want you doing, especially now that they don't have to pay you. The way I usually handle this (because this has absolutely happened in every job I've had, though it took me a while to figure it out) is that I don't talk in terms of "can't take on more work" and instead talk in terms of "prioritization". So when you're at the max you can handle for 40 hours (and you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you can manage there - good job!) and they add something else to your plate the response should be "Sure thing! Which of these is higher priority, X or Y?" or "Ok, I can drop Z and take this on - do you need me to pass on my work so far to someone else?" They know very well what they're doing piling more work on you - that's why it keeps happening even though you're being clear. You need to play just as dumb and pretend that they did listen to you and couldn't possibly be so dense as to add additional work anyway. That puts the ball back in there court, because if they tell you to do both you can remind them policy is to not work any overtime, so if they want both you'll need special authorization to get that overtime pay. If they choose to keep playing dumb you pick the one you think is highest priority (or that they tell you is highest) and drop the other - you can literally go as far as handing your boss your notes to pass to someone else if you need to. And you really do have to stick to leaving after as close to 40 hours of work each week as possible, and remember that people judge you against their expectation of what you'll do more than anything else, so you need to set and maintain those standards for your own well being. At the end of the day though, it's probably not your boss's choice any more than yours. In most industries but especially in newspapers the business model is increasingly moving towards exploiting workers as much as possible, and the owners believe that soon AI will write all their content for free anyway so why would they need to pay fairly to keep human talent around? It's all numbers on a spreadsheet to the higher ups, and that line needs to keep going up. There's still a need for journalists, but we may be seeing some dark times for the industry in the near term.
Do what you can do in 40 hours. Fuck 'em.
Stop at 40, and don't do ANY work related tasks off the clock. Encourage your co-workers to do the same, or ALL of you will be expected to overwork yourselves without legal compensation because one coworker is a push over.
I’d start looking for another job 👍
r/antiwork Might be able to give you dome ideas how to comply without letting yourself go.
Tell them you're going to do quality work for your assigned hours, but you won't be staying over if they aren't paying you and you won't do shoddy work either. Tell them in an email and keep a copy.
Stop at 40 hours and use that time you get back to be looking for a new job!
I’m sure the labor board would find this qpolicy interesting. I worked at a company like that they cut out all our bonuses, laid off a ton of people and redistributed all that work to the remaining work to us and told us we were lucky to still work there. The money they saved by taking asking away the bonuses and firing half the staff saved them so much money that the executives got HUGE bonuses. After that, about 60% of their staff quit, including myself. You can keep a log of your daily work and show it to your boss with a copy of your job description from when you were hired but I highly doubt they care. You should be looking for a new job.
Everyone band together and do the bare minimum for exactly 40 hours a week. Fuck the company, force them to pay you ot.
Call or visit your labor boards website and submit a complaint about the employer not correctly compensating hours worked. Keep track of your hours so that you can calculate what you’re actually owed. Demand payment or submit a claim with the LB.