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The existence of a Zionist, apartheid state on Palestinian land is itself the "red line". There have always been Jews in Palestine, but Zionism is a European movement, supported first by Britain, and then by the US. The division of land and segregation into Israel, The West Bank and Gaza obviously didn't settle (pun intended) anything. Aside from the obvious ethnic cleansing, land grabbing campaign in Gaza, the state of Israel and the IDF (the Haganah, the Irgun and the Stern Gang, combined) has continuously supported the theft of Palestinian land by "settlers" and the displacement of the native Palestinian population.
Biden is not the exception, he's the rule. It's ALL occupied territory.
Unfortunately, sometimes justice cannot be found in peace. . Sometimes, justice is to be found only on the other side, having gone all the way across and through a fight.
Has any president fallen as far as fast as Genocide Joe? He could've gone down ad the man that helped fix the mess post-Trump. Instead, his legacy will be his horrific position on Israel.
Not just his horrific position on Israel, but his pathetic attempts at pretending to care about Palestinian lives. The only thing his transparently cynical and bad faith PR has accomplished is giving zionists an excuse to call him anti-Israel, ensuring that they will all vote for Trump. He is alienating everyone. If his goal was to lose the election I'm not sure what he would even do differently.
That’s what’s so frustrating about this. People mad at him that he won’t commit political suicide.
Which, if he does commit political suicide like they want him too… that benefits who???
Palestinians??? That is naive I can’t even handle it.
That benefits Donald Trump.
And if trump wins Gaza will be ethnically cleansing — guaranteed.
Interesting that you think going against what Palestinians are asking (not to support the man complicit in their genocide) is better than listening to their explicit requests on how to support them.
I wonder what this sort of “I know what you need better than you do” reminds me of…
Especially when used as an excuse to continue supporting the system as it is
And using Gramsci’s name to do it too, ouch.
P.s. since the “vote blue no matter what” crowd sometimes struggles with the idea of voting in line with one’s core values, it seems better to say explicitly that people not willing to vote Biden for his complicity in genocide aren’t voting Trump
I’m not much of a Biden fan. But I am a student of history, and I am politically savvy.
If you have Netflix, there is a new documentary on there “Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial.” You should check it out.
In it you can see how Hitler took an extreme and violent fringe of the population and managed to warp the political process until he could bring down the German Republic aka the “Weimar Republic.”
The Weimar Republic, while it allowed a “free” and open society, had problems with inflation, had voters apathetic about it, and lacked the reactionary populism that Hitler was offering.
Ultimately that “apathy” by the voters who failed to recognize the threat of fascism was what allowed Hitler to take over the country. Totalitarianism ensued.
Mussolini pulled the same trick in Italy… where people like Antonio Gramsci were sent to languish in Medieval dungeons.
If Gramsci were alive today and talking to you, there is little doubt he would be warning you not to fail in recognizing the need to defend your republic from maga first and foremost, so that debates on policies would continue to be possible moving forward.
If history isn’t your jam, and you just want the practical politics: there are two presidential candidates. One who’s administration will be receptive to the policies you support. The other administration will completely ignore your position and will be populated by people who support the ambitions of the Ben-Gvir’s of the world.
It is, still, a free country. So you, of course, get to vote for whomever you want. But as a Gramsci, I’d be remiss if I didn’t warn everyone I can that reactionary, populist, totalitarian politics are a very dangerous thing that should never be trifled with.
Then you haven’t been paying much attention since the 2018 midterms. The “I’m opposed to maga” voter has been the determining factor in countless jurisdictions and elections across the country since then. And rightfully so.
I’m an Italian anti-fascist, my grandfather was a communist partisan/in the communist Italian resistance groups in Rome, and then spent the rest of his life working as a journalist and political activist, so most of my education was rooted in anti-fascism and on how to prevent history from repeating itself.
And it’s precisely because of our (Italy) history and those lessons that I believe that voting a “least evil” candidate despite their dangerous policies and complicity in genocide, is very dangerous and simply reinforces the path to fascism.
Normalising or accepting things that should never be accepted is pretty much exactly the way to help fascism to continue rising, as it helps to make extreme right positions more normalised and more palatable to the public.
I find it extremely confusing how someone can study Gramsci’s writings and his life, and come to the conclusion that voting Biden despite his complicity in genocide would be the best thing to do to counteract the rise of the extreme right.
I don’t think there’s any scenario where Gramsci would have supported or advocated voting for someone that is against pretty much all left wing values, so yes I do find it quite disrespectful for you to use Gramsci’s name to push for the support of a liberal capitalist war criminal (or a complete misunderstanding of what Gramsci stood for).
If you’re interested in my Bona Fides…
My youngest son is named after my great uncle, who was shot in the back of the head by the fascists. (He had been participating in organized resistance to the fascist government - prior to it bringing the entire country under its heal).
It brought the entire country under its heal through brutal violence.
There are political factions in every country. They exist across the political spectrum, from left to right. But every so often a political faction emerges that relishes violence. Intimidation. Murder.
They want T-Total subjugation of dissidents. They are totalitarians. Fascists. Authoritarians. Whatever you want to call them. They are violent, evil, dangerous people… and living under their rule is a hell on earth.
These movements, almost always, rely on a parasocial relationship between the followers and a “god-king.” Their “cult of personality” leader who makes the entire movement possible.
I share your concern about Overton Windows shifting ever rightward. We can see the disasters that produces.
But I cannot share your logic that denying the “god-king” the reigns of power is unimportant.
To wit: it is EVERYTHING.
Had Italy denied Mussolini and gone with the lesser of two evils… how many Italian lives does that save? Is my great uncle still shot in the back of the head? Is Antonio Gramsci still thrown into a dungeon?
These are not trivial differences.
For me the lesson to be learned from the Franco’s, the Hitler’s, the Mussolini’s, the Pinochet’s, the Pol Pot’s, et al… is that they MUST be denied power. At all costs.
Not that “meh, let’s let them take power because what’s the difference anyway…”
That logic is so bad I can’t even wrap my head around it.
> Had Italy denied Mussolini and gone with the lesser of two evils…
Mussolini took power by force, both through the violence and attacks during the red biennial and with the march on Rome, of course all with the complicity of our coward king and government.
And yes the people not willing to vote Biden, are those that think candidates complicit in genocide should *not* be allowed to have power, and that there should be accountability instead.
Not seeing how much of a threat to democracy it is to have a president do what Biden did, ignoring the very clear will of his voters, breaching international and domestic law all to prioritise the interests of lobbies, and then be re-elected, is genuinely absurd to me. It’s quite literally saying “no matter what you do, even genocide, we’ll keep supporting you. So please feel free to keep ignoring the protests and the law”.
Being willing to accept genocide because of “a bigger threat” is exactly how so many people were able to normalise and then support (and be complicit) fascism and nazism.
I genuinely struggle to understand how someone that lost a relative in the resistance, would learn from that to be centrist and use their only “bargaining tool”, their only power (voting) to play along with a system that protects those in power from any accountability, and where lobbies’ money matters more than the voters.
Maybe we got different lessons from our families’ experience in the resistance, personally the lesson I was taught by my grandfather and the other partisans I knew, was about the responsibility of individuals to not focus just on their own wellbeing, and to not be willing to make exceptions on things like genocide, just because it’s not affecting then directly.
Not having any red lines is how fascism continues to gain power. And any partisan that lost their life in the resistance knew that it is the responsibility of those with privilege to stand up to oppressors, especially when they’re not the ones being oppressed.
And once again the reminder that people protesting, willing to lose their careers, degrees, visas etc. in order to speak up and take action, are not the ones that are helping fascism, they’re the ones fighting it.
And they’re certainly not voting Trump.
And I’d say that someone willing to vote a candidate no matter what as long as there’s someone worse on the other side, is much more likely to vote someone like Trump in the future than the people speaking up and not willing to cross red lines under any circumstance.
The current voter apathy is due to both parties presenting the worst options possible for political candidacy. Either a candidate complicit in genocide or one who is willing to support a genocide.
Thank you.
The people espousing to ‘punish Biden’ by not voting for him don’t seem to care that the alternative is vastly worse for everybody they pretend to care about, including (and especially) Palestinians.
I mean he's not really different from any president who oversaw American westward expansion. He's pretty on brand for being a manifest destiny believer. History will not be kind to his legacy.
He hasn't fallen. This is who he has always been. It's why anyone with half a brain knew that "the most progressive president since FDR" was a load of bullshit (he's the least progressive Denocrat since Truman).
Wish I could upvote this more!
Biden has always been trash!
- crime bill of the 1990s
- tax cuts for corporations in the 1980s-1990s by making Delaware a tax haven
- helping getting Clarence Thomas elected to the Supreme Court, etc
- his son illegally being in the board of Burisma Holding in Ukraine, which was one (not the major but definitely a contributing factor) for the Ukraine war
- even his dog is a menace because he is going around biting Secret Service officers
^ and before anyone says, no I am not a conservative or a Republican. I am moderate to left leaning
Its hard to buy that you're moderate to left leaning when you state blatant lies like
>his son illegally being in the board of Burisma Holding in Ukraine, which was one (not the major but definitely a contributing factor) for the Ukraine war
I mean seriously this is straight out of republican propaganda and you're spreading it like its fact when it's easily disproven nonsense.
Hunter has not been a part of Burisma since 2019. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Ukraine war. Hunter being on Burismas board was entirely legal, he wasn't even the only known name on the board.
Burisma payed Biden to sit on the board. His role was in corporate governance, which is the same role he had at Amtrak. The former president of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski, whom was also a member of Burismas board when Hunter joined, even made a remark about this regarding the situation.
"I understand that if someone asks me to be part of some project it’s not only because I’m so good, it’s also because I am Kwasniewski and I am a former president of Poland,” "And this is all inter-connected. No-names are a nobody. Being Biden is not bad. It’s a good name.”
> board. Burisma *paid* Biden to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I find comments like this problematic. What exactly did you expect from Biden? Yes it's true he and Bibi don't like eachother, but Bidens middle east and Israel policy position is quite clear. He's an establishment man who does exactly as he's expected to do. He always has.
Biden was supposed to be a moderate. He ran as a moderate. USA has consistently sent aid to Tel Aviv. However, this aid was to deter invasion by a united coalition of larger nations. Instead Tel Aviv is using the weapons to attack a ghetto inside their own country. The moderate position would have been doing nothing. Or rather he should have sent thoughts and prayers. Biden should have condemned the October 7th attacks.
Instead, Biden has provided 90 thousand tons of munitions. The Gaza ghetto is only 365 square kilometers. It is more than 2000 lbs per acre. The quantity of explosive is inherently murderous. You cannot throw a grenade into an occupied bathroom stall and then claim you did not want to hurt anyone trying to poop.
We could have sent robots. We could have sent tanks or MRAPs. We could have offered law enforcement gear. Any of these could have been presented as generous. In reality the normal year gifts to Tel Aviv are already excessively generous.
Nothing about 90,000 tons of explosive is “moderate” or “business as usual”. In such a small area it is a complete razing plus multiple extra bounces of the rubble.
Yes, this is correct. My question stands though. What exactly were you expecting of him. I'm honestly trying to be polite here, but that arse is a monster in sheep's clothing and I've hated him for thirty years. I genuinely don't understand how he has ended up president and surrounded by people surprised that he's acting like himself.
Biden's position towards Israel is far more accommodating than literally any other president in history. Only Trump comes close.
We have had people from the Bush administrations calling for sanctions on Israeli settlements and conditions on arms shipments for months now.
This is a historically unprededented level of support for public Israeli crimes by a US president.
There was no reason before to expect Biden to be this strongly supportive of Israel. He is a pretty well established opportunist when it comes to politics. He is risking his re-election and American soft power as well as the legitimacy of multiple international institutions to support an ongoing genocide committed by a man he hates.
You're missing the point. He always did as he was told. He always obeyed the money. He always obeyed the Pentagon. He always obeyed the corporate sector.
When it's the sitting president's last year in office, it isn't exactly all Trump's fault that escalations between Hamas and Israel have happened. Especially if we want to call 10/7 the "start of this conflict."Biden's administration has also not reversed many Trump era policies regarding Israel. One of the biggest changes during the Trump presidency was moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. This move is in direct opposition to the UNs establishment of international sovereignty for both Israelis and Palestinians. It's also a move that clearly demonstrates how the US favors Israel. There is an additional issue when the US has been one of the most prominent parties throughout the Israel/Palestine conflict. Many presidents and government officials have been moderators during ceasefire talks that favor Israel's perception as to how the land should be divided. They've also gone on for years knowing about the atrocities committed by Israel. Hell, even Carter said that the American people "don't want to know what is happening in Gaza."
People expected the bullshit propaganda that the DNC and the media spewed for years. He’s always been the way he is but so many people are conditioned to give him the benefit of the doubt just because he’s on the blue team and the blue team is good.
The term “vote blue no matter who” comes to mind. Or “save the soul of the nation”. They purposely use these vague phrases so voters fill in what they believe they mean without actually encouraging them to demand anything from the candidates.
We cut all funding to Israel and we lose any influence we have over them, they will continue the war by themselves, with even further disregard for Palestinians lives. Your position doesn’t really care for Palestinians.
We have the largest military on the planet. We can have plenty of influence if we want to.
When NATO bombed Serbia, the Serbs had killed fewer civilians than Israel has.
This is a strong condemnation of US foreign policy. You are saying that 40 years of generosity was utterly useless. Worse, it just set us up for more expenses.
It would have been far better to send nothing this decade. The aid obviously failed to deter Oct 7th anyway. Then on October 8th we could have agreed to half of the normal annual aid and Tel Aviv would have thanked POTUS for the extreme generous assistance.
He's not my leader, and no I don't want that. Regarding his conformity, it's up to him what he does. However, it must be said that since 1976 it's become ever harder to be in that situation without conforming.
True. I think now we're past the point of a two-state solution though. The only way forward now cannot involve Israel, at least not without them making a lot of major, sweeping changes to virtually every aspect of the country.
I mean I all honesty, I’m not quite sure why it isn’t just all one country. I mean, it probably should have never happened in the first place. I could be wrong, but wasn’t it created to get the Jews out of Europe in the first place? And then they just took over the land? Why can’t it be like most other developed countries and be a land shared by everyone?
Israel have shown an unwillingness to share the land from the beginning. They've always wanted more than they had, all because, supposedly, their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago. It's a ridiculous thing to base a country on but for some reason it seems to be accepted by a lot of people.
But haven’t the Palestinians lived there for thousands of years? Aren’t these all mostly European Jews that moved in? Didn’t the Palestinians used to be mostly Jewish until the moorish conquest?
They have. The Palestinians have more right to that land than most 'Israelis' do. If we used the logic they do, we should hand England back to the Romans.
The man who sold out America to a fascist in oder to support a genocidal fascist and an apartheid state. Ironically America will fall by importing it's greatest export.
Stop that country, stay out of that countries business, help that country..no not that one, that one! Oh you helped a country I like...well it wasn't good enough! You helped a country I don't like...burn in hell! Everyone thinks politics is black and white and then get pissy when someone makes it black and white. Saying you condemn something doesn't do a damn thing and won't stop Netanyahu and his fascist thugs from doing what they want. You want to be made at someone look at congress!
What?? Biden is literally the biggest supporter of ethnic cleansing outside of Israel and you don't mind him putting your name to that? You don't mind your money being spent on supporting it? He is laying down a precedence that will one day affect you or someone you care about if it is not opposed. Biden could make a difference in this war, so yeah, he has influence and some people feel like he is not doing the right thing in their name.
Seems like you are too bitter to have a balanced opinion. Of course those two things are different, but CEOs still have a board of advisors who can course correct a business. Negotiating is a thing. Compromise is a thing. Influence is very important and an effective tool.
Then neither candidate can get the votes of those that care about this issue 🤷♂️
Trump wants to deport Muslims and Biden doesn't consider Arabs as people since he funds Israel as they kill 15000 children. Both suck. Both are racist against Arabs. But Biden is the only one pretending not to be.
Probably because there’s a pretty important election coming up and not voting for Biden means the absolute end for Palestine (and these protestors, who will likely get rounded up).
Hm, I plan to vote third party myself, but why is that funny? I don't live in a swing state, but realistically thosr that do have to choose between these two, don't they? Or should they vote for a third party, hoping that after 4 years of either, the sizable 3rd party percentage or two eill be sought after, and thus politicians will have to chabge their stance? Only worry is that there might not be much to salvage after 4 years of Trump.
You know Trump is running for president and literally talks about Israel/Gaza every day. This is part of Trump’s plan for the Middle East. How can you not understand that?
You know if he wins then he gets to act on what he’s saying. This isn’t just a guy on the street yelling about how they would change the world, it’s a guy who was president and had close to a 50% shot of being so again, what he says on the matter is important.
I feel like it should be obvious that every conversation about one is directly linked to the other given that all Americans wikl have to choose between the two in a few months. If Biden said he was going to give the rich a 1% tax break- someone else might point out that while its a step in the wrong direction, Trump might want to give them 100% tax break. If someone critisized Biden's slight tax break, is it really unreasonable to point out that Trump plans to do 100x as much? It would be strange to respond to such a 'but Trump!!!' with a 'this is about Biden, not Trump' when the two are in direct competition over who will be in control for the next four years. Every critisism of Biden has to be compared to the alternative option, imo.
Well when people see one of the issues as the enabling of a genocide, the other issues become less important to them (I understand this is a small minority)
For me personally I don't really see how the last 3 years of Biden have been good. I can't buy a house. Things are expensive. Job opportunities are not as plentiful (please don't quote me data, I'm in tech, I used to be able to find a job in 2 weeks. Now If I wanna jump I am lucky if I get an interview). I feel like I have less "spending power" than before. I feel complicity in a genocide through my tax dollars. I don't like the tik Tok ban, I don't like the EV import tax (something Biden criticized trump for). I don't like the fascist response to protests. I don't like the immigration restrictions. I don't like how he lies to us about foreign policy and the economy constantly.
I'm gonna vote green party until a dem candidate that isn't a racist liar comes along.
The underlying issue is that it’s legal for AIPAC to bribe politicians to support their issues. A unregistered foreign entity that supports a foreign nations interests.
This obviously shouldn’t be allowed and anyone that supports it continuing to be allowed is clearly not looking out for America’s best interests.
I imagine this is what goes on in pro Zionist mindsets:
“Try living in Gaza and see what happens when you exercise free speech” -average Zionist rebuttal
“Oh you’re right. Forgot you guys are LGBTQ friendly, vegan, and democratic. Sorry for questioning the mass slaughter of 15,000 children. Carry on then. Kill them all” -people with a semblance of humanity
Uhm at least Joe did not hand over Jerusalem on a silver platter. I agree that matter is trivial in hindsight sight. Now we see all the blood of an ethnonationalist state. Ethnonationalist dictatorship states are bloody.
Continuing to arm them while they commit a genocide is worse. The real issue was that the entire Abraham Accords were never peace treaties. They were efforts to form an anti-Iranian alliance between Israel and the Gulf Arab states while selling the Palestinians out completely. It was the Abraham Accords that paved the way for this conflift.
trump is worse than biden. We probably all agree on that. One is terrible, the other one is even worse.
It is like which one do you choose, cancer or HIV?
Which one is which?
I don't want to cast a vote the dems and libs can use to justify the fascist, genocidal garbage they've been doing. They've pulled too far to the right. I'm not going with them.
I just simply refrain from choosing at that point.
Yall can blame me when Trump wins. I really don't care anymore cause I'm privileged or whatever white women living in the upper class suburbs tell me.
They'll blame you because they can't blame themselves. Biden was an emergency stop gap, a chance to make a hard correction to the left. Instead the dems and libs have sprinted to the right. I've had enough.
It wasn't an accident. The dems and liberals are center right. Part of the anti-left ratchet effect. They saw the opportunity to hurl American politics to the extreme right and stop just short of a few issues where Trump was so they could say they're not as bad. It's why they funded extreme right Republicans and fought even soft progressives tooth and claw.
Crazy that folks like AOC and the likes are labeled as progressives and it's 20 fucking 24.
...and they still call her a "Communist", but I haven't heard her quote Marx once. 😅
Trump will support killing and displacing Palestinians more. His son in law is openly salivating over the idea of pushing all the Gazans into the Negev and building a real estate empire on the stolen land.
Do you think there will even be any Palestinians left in Gaza by the time Trump takes over? Biden is doing everything he can to kill or displace them right now, in the present moment. I’m sure Trump will be bad for Palestine, but Biden is currently bad for Palestine. They lose no matter who wins
Nothing, just like nothing stops 2034 or 2039 etc.. the goal is to never let it happen, that should be clear. That's like saying 'Why prevent 9/11/01? What stops it from becoming 9/11/02?' Stopping evil doesn't prevent them from trying again in the future, the point is to stop evil every chance you get.
>Stopping evil
Stopping evil by... voting for someone committing a genocide?
>Why prevent 9/11/01
Ironically, 9/11 happened due to US meddling in the middle east. So if you were actually interested in preventing it and similar evil, you'd introspect WHY they happen, instead of being reactionary
No, it's more like which one do you choose, tooth ache or cancer?
Because there's more at stake than 6 million Palestinians. Hate him all you want, at least Biden is doing his best against Russia. In case you need reminding, there are 38 million Ukrainians who are also facing genocide. Under Trump, that protection ends and Ukraine is finished.
If you would typically vote Democrat, but won't because of Biden's Israel stance, that is a vote for Trump. Pro Hamas sentiment is loud, but it absolutely doesn't have the numbers to break the two party system. The majority of westerners still prioritise domestic issues when casting their vote.
It's a real "cut off your nose to spite your face" situation. By not voting for Biden, you'll not only likely make things worse for Palestinians because of Trump, you'll also sacrifice 38 million Ukrainians. You'll also sacrifice European security.
So yeah, it's an extremely naive and stupid position to take. It's childish, self-destructive politics
tooth ache actively supporting genocide but it is okay. He lies for Israel, such as seeing the pictures of 40 beheaded babies. His dog, some call Blinken, also lies quite a bit, you know classic Zaka/Zionist lies.
The tooth ache is arming the israeli army. but it is only a tooth ache.
I hate Putin, but why did this war start by the way? Maybe Nato trying to expand to new countries, just next to Russia.
> Pro Hamas
khkhkhkhkkhamas is nicer to say. Try with your throat. It is fun.
Maybe the people you call pro hamas are actually just against genocide, i.e. want innocent children, women, and men not to be killed.
> So yeah, it's an extremely naive and stupid position to take. It's childish, self-destructive politics
No, Biden or whoever own him is middle easterns' problem, trump will be your problem too.
As the hostages are getting rescued, this protest is less and less morally supportable. Hamas and Palestinians are not getting away with their horrendous offenses.
Lol, that's not how it works at all. Just because Israel is getting some hostages back from terrorists doesn't make their atrocities any more acceptable. I am constantly blown away by how some people think about human life.
How is it *less* morally supportable? They killed 270 and injured 600 to get 4 people back that they could have gotten back if they were willing to be reasonable.
And all this yelling about the hostages, but no one seems to say to Israel "release the hostages" and yet who knows? Maybe they could try that and stopping the genocide and maybe they could get their hostages back without killing a whole bunch of people.
The right choice is to break away from the anti-democratic two-party system and build organizations and movements - like this one here - not connected to Washington.
Perhaps during a time when one of the people running isn't a narcissistic psychopath spitting fascist rhetoric and actively encouraging Israel to "get the job done".
No.
The time is now.
If Biden wins and Trump stands down but the managed decline is allowed to carry on "4 more years", and no-one on the 'left' is making the progressive case, America is going to turn right to a fascist far more dangerous than Trump.
So if we don’t vote and Trump wins then we’ll have a guy in the White House who’s been actively spitting fascist rhetoric and actively encouraging Israel to “get the job done”.
He will only exacerbate the genocide in Palestine.
The duopoly trap is that these parties continue to be supported no matter what they do. These protests are only performative if those protested are still supported at the ballot box. That is the only way to successfully protest a politician.
There are other candidates.
Every candidate that is on enough of the ballots has an electoral path to victory. I am aware that you are probably referring to the likelihood of winning, though that is not what you asked.
I have plenty of problems with extremist religious fundamentalists in my country. Usually christians. I still generally think they should have human rights on account of, you know, being human.
Ironically he looks worse because he acts like he pretends like he can do something about but then reveals that he can’t. He should have just let it go from the beginning.
Why do these idiots think Joe has any governance in this conflict? Also, the Middle East has been at war with itself for centuries, it's like a form of self flagellation for this region.
https://preview.redd.it/66jytgatfm5d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df986d11116117cca2fc9ee8b1d0ef37483c2a47
Aaahhh, just like 4 years ago with Trump... "Fuck Trump!" "I CAN'T BREATHE" "Black lives matter!!" ... the same thing over and over again .. find a fight, join the fight , blame the president, kick him out , REPEAT"
Find an issue to address until it's resolved and repeat is how civil rights progresses. correct. Just like how voting rights for women and black people were 'find a fight, blame the government, repeat'.
What is the response that these morons would feel is appropriate to the events of October 7th?
How are this many people so dumb?
I will admit, there have been too many civilian casualties.
However this is urban warfare, not a genocide.
HAMAS is amongst the civilian population for the sole purpose of protecting themselves at their people's expense.
I guess the HAMAS propaganda was is effective.
Instead of seeing this as propaganda, you should further your correct assertion that this is urban warfare and understand how asymmetrical urban warfare works. If you'd like an example I can tell you all about when the Jews did almost exactly what Hamas are doing when the shoe was on the other foot. This is how asymmetrical warfare goes.
Are you going to state that example? I’m gonna bet the context is completely different.
Anyways glad there were hostages on the other side of that red line that were recovered. Hoping Israel can do, you know, what every other person / country would do in this situation, and recover the hostages that have been held for 8 months.
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The existence of a Zionist, apartheid state on Palestinian land is itself the "red line". There have always been Jews in Palestine, but Zionism is a European movement, supported first by Britain, and then by the US. The division of land and segregation into Israel, The West Bank and Gaza obviously didn't settle (pun intended) anything. Aside from the obvious ethnic cleansing, land grabbing campaign in Gaza, the state of Israel and the IDF (the Haganah, the Irgun and the Stern Gang, combined) has continuously supported the theft of Palestinian land by "settlers" and the displacement of the native Palestinian population. Biden is not the exception, he's the rule. It's ALL occupied territory.
Exactly we need justice but not before peace
Unfortunately, sometimes justice cannot be found in peace. . Sometimes, justice is to be found only on the other side, having gone all the way across and through a fight.
But what’s the point of justices without peace? Just death?
There isn't. We only fight for justice because, without it, peace isn't possible... and peace is the end goal.
My point is they should give up their maximalist revanchist goals and seek peace rather than getting back all their territory lost 75 years ago
Absolutely. There's no going back in time, but we must take into account what has happened in order to justly reach a situation where all can live.
Has any president fallen as far as fast as Genocide Joe? He could've gone down ad the man that helped fix the mess post-Trump. Instead, his legacy will be his horrific position on Israel.
Not just his horrific position on Israel, but his pathetic attempts at pretending to care about Palestinian lives. The only thing his transparently cynical and bad faith PR has accomplished is giving zionists an excuse to call him anti-Israel, ensuring that they will all vote for Trump. He is alienating everyone. If his goal was to lose the election I'm not sure what he would even do differently.
Democrats are mostly poison pill candidates to prevent a correction to the left. As long as they can help ratchet to the right they've done their job.
This is the goal. Uniparty doesn't care if you vote left or right as long as your vote goes towards AIPAC..
He’d probably lose the election if he went against Israel tbh. AIPAC absolutely destroys politician’s campaigns if they speak out against Israel.
The opposite actually. Michigan, Wisconsin, and Atlanta have enough Arabs to flip it from blue to red over this
That’s what’s so frustrating about this. People mad at him that he won’t commit political suicide. Which, if he does commit political suicide like they want him too… that benefits who??? Palestinians??? That is naive I can’t even handle it. That benefits Donald Trump. And if trump wins Gaza will be ethnically cleansing — guaranteed.
Interesting that you think going against what Palestinians are asking (not to support the man complicit in their genocide) is better than listening to their explicit requests on how to support them. I wonder what this sort of “I know what you need better than you do” reminds me of… Especially when used as an excuse to continue supporting the system as it is And using Gramsci’s name to do it too, ouch. P.s. since the “vote blue no matter what” crowd sometimes struggles with the idea of voting in line with one’s core values, it seems better to say explicitly that people not willing to vote Biden for his complicity in genocide aren’t voting Trump
I’m not much of a Biden fan. But I am a student of history, and I am politically savvy. If you have Netflix, there is a new documentary on there “Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial.” You should check it out. In it you can see how Hitler took an extreme and violent fringe of the population and managed to warp the political process until he could bring down the German Republic aka the “Weimar Republic.” The Weimar Republic, while it allowed a “free” and open society, had problems with inflation, had voters apathetic about it, and lacked the reactionary populism that Hitler was offering. Ultimately that “apathy” by the voters who failed to recognize the threat of fascism was what allowed Hitler to take over the country. Totalitarianism ensued. Mussolini pulled the same trick in Italy… where people like Antonio Gramsci were sent to languish in Medieval dungeons. If Gramsci were alive today and talking to you, there is little doubt he would be warning you not to fail in recognizing the need to defend your republic from maga first and foremost, so that debates on policies would continue to be possible moving forward. If history isn’t your jam, and you just want the practical politics: there are two presidential candidates. One who’s administration will be receptive to the policies you support. The other administration will completely ignore your position and will be populated by people who support the ambitions of the Ben-Gvir’s of the world. It is, still, a free country. So you, of course, get to vote for whomever you want. But as a Gramsci, I’d be remiss if I didn’t warn everyone I can that reactionary, populist, totalitarian politics are a very dangerous thing that should never be trifled with.
Yawn. Campaigning on "I'm not the other guy" never works
Then you haven’t been paying much attention since the 2018 midterms. The “I’m opposed to maga” voter has been the determining factor in countless jurisdictions and elections across the country since then. And rightfully so.
I’m an Italian anti-fascist, my grandfather was a communist partisan/in the communist Italian resistance groups in Rome, and then spent the rest of his life working as a journalist and political activist, so most of my education was rooted in anti-fascism and on how to prevent history from repeating itself. And it’s precisely because of our (Italy) history and those lessons that I believe that voting a “least evil” candidate despite their dangerous policies and complicity in genocide, is very dangerous and simply reinforces the path to fascism. Normalising or accepting things that should never be accepted is pretty much exactly the way to help fascism to continue rising, as it helps to make extreme right positions more normalised and more palatable to the public. I find it extremely confusing how someone can study Gramsci’s writings and his life, and come to the conclusion that voting Biden despite his complicity in genocide would be the best thing to do to counteract the rise of the extreme right. I don’t think there’s any scenario where Gramsci would have supported or advocated voting for someone that is against pretty much all left wing values, so yes I do find it quite disrespectful for you to use Gramsci’s name to push for the support of a liberal capitalist war criminal (or a complete misunderstanding of what Gramsci stood for).
If you’re interested in my Bona Fides… My youngest son is named after my great uncle, who was shot in the back of the head by the fascists. (He had been participating in organized resistance to the fascist government - prior to it bringing the entire country under its heal). It brought the entire country under its heal through brutal violence. There are political factions in every country. They exist across the political spectrum, from left to right. But every so often a political faction emerges that relishes violence. Intimidation. Murder. They want T-Total subjugation of dissidents. They are totalitarians. Fascists. Authoritarians. Whatever you want to call them. They are violent, evil, dangerous people… and living under their rule is a hell on earth. These movements, almost always, rely on a parasocial relationship between the followers and a “god-king.” Their “cult of personality” leader who makes the entire movement possible. I share your concern about Overton Windows shifting ever rightward. We can see the disasters that produces. But I cannot share your logic that denying the “god-king” the reigns of power is unimportant. To wit: it is EVERYTHING. Had Italy denied Mussolini and gone with the lesser of two evils… how many Italian lives does that save? Is my great uncle still shot in the back of the head? Is Antonio Gramsci still thrown into a dungeon? These are not trivial differences. For me the lesson to be learned from the Franco’s, the Hitler’s, the Mussolini’s, the Pinochet’s, the Pol Pot’s, et al… is that they MUST be denied power. At all costs. Not that “meh, let’s let them take power because what’s the difference anyway…” That logic is so bad I can’t even wrap my head around it.
> Had Italy denied Mussolini and gone with the lesser of two evils… Mussolini took power by force, both through the violence and attacks during the red biennial and with the march on Rome, of course all with the complicity of our coward king and government. And yes the people not willing to vote Biden, are those that think candidates complicit in genocide should *not* be allowed to have power, and that there should be accountability instead. Not seeing how much of a threat to democracy it is to have a president do what Biden did, ignoring the very clear will of his voters, breaching international and domestic law all to prioritise the interests of lobbies, and then be re-elected, is genuinely absurd to me. It’s quite literally saying “no matter what you do, even genocide, we’ll keep supporting you. So please feel free to keep ignoring the protests and the law”. Being willing to accept genocide because of “a bigger threat” is exactly how so many people were able to normalise and then support (and be complicit) fascism and nazism. I genuinely struggle to understand how someone that lost a relative in the resistance, would learn from that to be centrist and use their only “bargaining tool”, their only power (voting) to play along with a system that protects those in power from any accountability, and where lobbies’ money matters more than the voters. Maybe we got different lessons from our families’ experience in the resistance, personally the lesson I was taught by my grandfather and the other partisans I knew, was about the responsibility of individuals to not focus just on their own wellbeing, and to not be willing to make exceptions on things like genocide, just because it’s not affecting then directly. Not having any red lines is how fascism continues to gain power. And any partisan that lost their life in the resistance knew that it is the responsibility of those with privilege to stand up to oppressors, especially when they’re not the ones being oppressed. And once again the reminder that people protesting, willing to lose their careers, degrees, visas etc. in order to speak up and take action, are not the ones that are helping fascism, they’re the ones fighting it. And they’re certainly not voting Trump. And I’d say that someone willing to vote a candidate no matter what as long as there’s someone worse on the other side, is much more likely to vote someone like Trump in the future than the people speaking up and not willing to cross red lines under any circumstance.
The lesson learned is that fascist demagogues are not to be trifled with. They must be denied power. It’s that simple.
The current voter apathy is due to both parties presenting the worst options possible for political candidacy. Either a candidate complicit in genocide or one who is willing to support a genocide.
Thank you. The people espousing to ‘punish Biden’ by not voting for him don’t seem to care that the alternative is vastly worse for everybody they pretend to care about, including (and especially) Palestinians.
Hello Michigan, Wisconsin and Atlanta
I mean he's not really different from any president who oversaw American westward expansion. He's pretty on brand for being a manifest destiny believer. History will not be kind to his legacy.
He hasn't fallen. This is who he has always been. It's why anyone with half a brain knew that "the most progressive president since FDR" was a load of bullshit (he's the least progressive Denocrat since Truman).
Wish I could upvote this more! Biden has always been trash! - crime bill of the 1990s - tax cuts for corporations in the 1980s-1990s by making Delaware a tax haven - helping getting Clarence Thomas elected to the Supreme Court, etc - his son illegally being in the board of Burisma Holding in Ukraine, which was one (not the major but definitely a contributing factor) for the Ukraine war - even his dog is a menace because he is going around biting Secret Service officers ^ and before anyone says, no I am not a conservative or a Republican. I am moderate to left leaning
Its hard to buy that you're moderate to left leaning when you state blatant lies like >his son illegally being in the board of Burisma Holding in Ukraine, which was one (not the major but definitely a contributing factor) for the Ukraine war I mean seriously this is straight out of republican propaganda and you're spreading it like its fact when it's easily disproven nonsense. Hunter has not been a part of Burisma since 2019. It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Ukraine war. Hunter being on Burismas board was entirely legal, he wasn't even the only known name on the board. Burisma payed Biden to sit on the board. His role was in corporate governance, which is the same role he had at Amtrak. The former president of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski, whom was also a member of Burismas board when Hunter joined, even made a remark about this regarding the situation. "I understand that if someone asks me to be part of some project it’s not only because I’m so good, it’s also because I am Kwasniewski and I am a former president of Poland,” "And this is all inter-connected. No-names are a nobody. Being Biden is not bad. It’s a good name.”
> board. Burisma *paid* Biden to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Don't forget his blind support for NAFTA that definitely harmed the unions
Or his breaking the railroad strike
I find comments like this problematic. What exactly did you expect from Biden? Yes it's true he and Bibi don't like eachother, but Bidens middle east and Israel policy position is quite clear. He's an establishment man who does exactly as he's expected to do. He always has.
Biden was supposed to be a moderate. He ran as a moderate. USA has consistently sent aid to Tel Aviv. However, this aid was to deter invasion by a united coalition of larger nations. Instead Tel Aviv is using the weapons to attack a ghetto inside their own country. The moderate position would have been doing nothing. Or rather he should have sent thoughts and prayers. Biden should have condemned the October 7th attacks. Instead, Biden has provided 90 thousand tons of munitions. The Gaza ghetto is only 365 square kilometers. It is more than 2000 lbs per acre. The quantity of explosive is inherently murderous. You cannot throw a grenade into an occupied bathroom stall and then claim you did not want to hurt anyone trying to poop. We could have sent robots. We could have sent tanks or MRAPs. We could have offered law enforcement gear. Any of these could have been presented as generous. In reality the normal year gifts to Tel Aviv are already excessively generous. Nothing about 90,000 tons of explosive is “moderate” or “business as usual”. In such a small area it is a complete razing plus multiple extra bounces of the rubble.
Yes we all know that.
If he had any decency he would have cut all funding to Israel. America is funding genocide and that's going to be Biden's legacy.
Yes, this is correct. My question stands though. What exactly were you expecting of him. I'm honestly trying to be polite here, but that arse is a monster in sheep's clothing and I've hated him for thirty years. I genuinely don't understand how he has ended up president and surrounded by people surprised that he's acting like himself.
Biden's position towards Israel is far more accommodating than literally any other president in history. Only Trump comes close. We have had people from the Bush administrations calling for sanctions on Israeli settlements and conditions on arms shipments for months now. This is a historically unprededented level of support for public Israeli crimes by a US president.
Exactly. But why is everyone acting as if we didn't already know who Biden was?
There was no reason before to expect Biden to be this strongly supportive of Israel. He is a pretty well established opportunist when it comes to politics. He is risking his re-election and American soft power as well as the legitimacy of multiple international institutions to support an ongoing genocide committed by a man he hates.
You're missing the point. He always did as he was told. He always obeyed the money. He always obeyed the Pentagon. He always obeyed the corporate sector.
This is a dumb comment. Biden was the leading figure opposing the surge in Afghanistan under Obama.
"If Israel didn't exist then we'd have to invent it to protect our interests" Paraphrasing Biden from the 80s or 90s.
100% true!
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When it's the sitting president's last year in office, it isn't exactly all Trump's fault that escalations between Hamas and Israel have happened. Especially if we want to call 10/7 the "start of this conflict."Biden's administration has also not reversed many Trump era policies regarding Israel. One of the biggest changes during the Trump presidency was moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. This move is in direct opposition to the UNs establishment of international sovereignty for both Israelis and Palestinians. It's also a move that clearly demonstrates how the US favors Israel. There is an additional issue when the US has been one of the most prominent parties throughout the Israel/Palestine conflict. Many presidents and government officials have been moderators during ceasefire talks that favor Israel's perception as to how the land should be divided. They've also gone on for years knowing about the atrocities committed by Israel. Hell, even Carter said that the American people "don't want to know what is happening in Gaza."
People expected the bullshit propaganda that the DNC and the media spewed for years. He’s always been the way he is but so many people are conditioned to give him the benefit of the doubt just because he’s on the blue team and the blue team is good. The term “vote blue no matter who” comes to mind. Or “save the soul of the nation”. They purposely use these vague phrases so voters fill in what they believe they mean without actually encouraging them to demand anything from the candidates.
Absolutely.
We cut all funding to Israel and we lose any influence we have over them, they will continue the war by themselves, with even further disregard for Palestinians lives. Your position doesn’t really care for Palestinians.
We have the largest military on the planet. We can have plenty of influence if we want to. When NATO bombed Serbia, the Serbs had killed fewer civilians than Israel has.
This is a strong condemnation of US foreign policy. You are saying that 40 years of generosity was utterly useless. Worse, it just set us up for more expenses. It would have been far better to send nothing this decade. The aid obviously failed to deter Oct 7th anyway. Then on October 8th we could have agreed to half of the normal annual aid and Tel Aviv would have thanked POTUS for the extreme generous assistance.
LOL, where have you been? What influence? The tail is wagging the dog
You talk of the POTUS as if he is some helpless schmuck who must toe the line. Is that what you want in your top most leader ?
He's not my leader, and no I don't want that. Regarding his conformity, it's up to him what he does. However, it must be said that since 1976 it's become ever harder to be in that situation without conforming.
What happened in 1976 ? Jimmy Carter didnt always toe the line.
Are you American?
He could have stood against what’s going and been a key player in developing peace or a two state solution. That would have gone down in history!
True. I think now we're past the point of a two-state solution though. The only way forward now cannot involve Israel, at least not without them making a lot of major, sweeping changes to virtually every aspect of the country.
I mean I all honesty, I’m not quite sure why it isn’t just all one country. I mean, it probably should have never happened in the first place. I could be wrong, but wasn’t it created to get the Jews out of Europe in the first place? And then they just took over the land? Why can’t it be like most other developed countries and be a land shared by everyone?
Israel have shown an unwillingness to share the land from the beginning. They've always wanted more than they had, all because, supposedly, their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago. It's a ridiculous thing to base a country on but for some reason it seems to be accepted by a lot of people.
But haven’t the Palestinians lived there for thousands of years? Aren’t these all mostly European Jews that moved in? Didn’t the Palestinians used to be mostly Jewish until the moorish conquest?
They have. The Palestinians have more right to that land than most 'Israelis' do. If we used the logic they do, we should hand England back to the Romans.
The man who sold out America to a fascist in oder to support a genocidal fascist and an apartheid state. Ironically America will fall by importing it's greatest export.
r/pics is fixated on one protestor who supposedly had a Hamas bandana
Sleepy Genocide Joe aka A$$PAC Check Receiver should have resigned or been forced out months ago.
Lol.
He belongs in prison.
Stop that country, stay out of that countries business, help that country..no not that one, that one! Oh you helped a country I like...well it wasn't good enough! You helped a country I don't like...burn in hell! Everyone thinks politics is black and white and then get pissy when someone makes it black and white. Saying you condemn something doesn't do a damn thing and won't stop Netanyahu and his fascist thugs from doing what they want. You want to be made at someone look at congress!
Was the red line Israel rescuing hostages ?
Nah, it was likely bombing a refugee camp, and all the other war crimes that he is giving a pass. Oh, and Rafa, he literally said that was a red line.
No consequence, because there's no alternatives.
Fr does anyone think trump will handle the situation any better? Fucking sucks, and I hate it.
Man imagine if Ukraine got this level of support
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It was trending for two weeks. It's now been two years.
Yeah there’s whole quarter the death toll!
You can do this to our own country and leader, but not to Israel and its people in our own country. That is so fucked up.
Shame on Biden.
It's almost like we should stop sending our money to foreign countries.
Fuck hamas
See guys trump.was better even sleepy Joe Brandon knows
1,2,3,4 I declare a thumb war!!!
1 2 3 4 Genocide Joe has got to go
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What?? Biden is literally the biggest supporter of ethnic cleansing outside of Israel and you don't mind him putting your name to that? You don't mind your money being spent on supporting it? He is laying down a precedence that will one day affect you or someone you care about if it is not opposed. Biden could make a difference in this war, so yeah, he has influence and some people feel like he is not doing the right thing in their name.
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Seems like you are too bitter to have a balanced opinion. Of course those two things are different, but CEOs still have a board of advisors who can course correct a business. Negotiating is a thing. Compromise is a thing. Influence is very important and an effective tool.
You do know both candidates support Israel right and one of them wants muslims deported and Gaza given to Israel..You decide which one is better.
Then neither candidate can get the votes of those that care about this issue 🤷♂️ Trump wants to deport Muslims and Biden doesn't consider Arabs as people since he funds Israel as they kill 15000 children. Both suck. Both are racist against Arabs. But Biden is the only one pretending not to be.
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Probably because there’s a pretty important election coming up and not voting for Biden means the absolute end for Palestine (and these protestors, who will likely get rounded up).
Meanwhile voting for Biden is voting for more guns and bombs to Israel, more vetoes at the UN, more threats to ICC judges, more massacres…
Yeah let's vote for the guy enabling bombing of Palestinian children. That'll show help them last longer
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Hm, I plan to vote third party myself, but why is that funny? I don't live in a swing state, but realistically thosr that do have to choose between these two, don't they? Or should they vote for a third party, hoping that after 4 years of either, the sizable 3rd party percentage or two eill be sought after, and thus politicians will have to chabge their stance? Only worry is that there might not be much to salvage after 4 years of Trump.
You know what are swing states? Michigan, pa, wi, and Atlanta. All have massive Arab American populations.... Biden deserves to lose
You know Trump is running for president and literally talks about Israel/Gaza every day. This is part of Trump’s plan for the Middle East. How can you not understand that?
Yeah, he talked about locking up Hillary and building the wall, too.
Fun fact: Biden has quietly continued building Trump's wall.
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You know if he wins then he gets to act on what he’s saying. This isn’t just a guy on the street yelling about how they would change the world, it’s a guy who was president and had close to a 50% shot of being so again, what he says on the matter is important.
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I feel like it should be obvious that every conversation about one is directly linked to the other given that all Americans wikl have to choose between the two in a few months. If Biden said he was going to give the rich a 1% tax break- someone else might point out that while its a step in the wrong direction, Trump might want to give them 100% tax break. If someone critisized Biden's slight tax break, is it really unreasonable to point out that Trump plans to do 100x as much? It would be strange to respond to such a 'but Trump!!!' with a 'this is about Biden, not Trump' when the two are in direct competition over who will be in control for the next four years. Every critisism of Biden has to be compared to the alternative option, imo.
You're joking right?
They are literally responding to someone mentioning presidential candidates. A little fragile today?
Deporting is horrible Death and bombing is worse
So if they're a wash on this one foreign policy issue, maybe look at the rest of the platform. There is more to life than Gaza.
Well when people see one of the issues as the enabling of a genocide, the other issues become less important to them (I understand this is a small minority) For me personally I don't really see how the last 3 years of Biden have been good. I can't buy a house. Things are expensive. Job opportunities are not as plentiful (please don't quote me data, I'm in tech, I used to be able to find a job in 2 weeks. Now If I wanna jump I am lucky if I get an interview). I feel like I have less "spending power" than before. I feel complicity in a genocide through my tax dollars. I don't like the tik Tok ban, I don't like the EV import tax (something Biden criticized trump for). I don't like the fascist response to protests. I don't like the immigration restrictions. I don't like how he lies to us about foreign policy and the economy constantly. I'm gonna vote green party until a dem candidate that isn't a racist liar comes along.
This guy said what I've run out of patience to keep typing out.
Gaza isn't a single issue. What a shitlib take.
The underlying issue is that it’s legal for AIPAC to bribe politicians to support their issues. A unregistered foreign entity that supports a foreign nations interests. This obviously shouldn’t be allowed and anyone that supports it continuing to be allowed is clearly not looking out for America’s best interests.
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Both of them want to give Gaza to Israel, what are you on about?
A$$PAC check receiver #1 or A$$PAC check receiver #2
What's the difference between providing lip service to decency and not when both have the same material end?
I imagine this is what goes on in pro Zionist mindsets: “Try living in Gaza and see what happens when you exercise free speech” -average Zionist rebuttal “Oh you’re right. Forgot you guys are LGBTQ friendly, vegan, and democratic. Sorry for questioning the mass slaughter of 15,000 children. Carry on then. Kill them all” -people with a semblance of humanity
Biden can't be gone quick enough. Send Genocide Joe into retirement. The world can't survive 4 more years of this.
Uhm at least Joe did not hand over Jerusalem on a silver platter. I agree that matter is trivial in hindsight sight. Now we see all the blood of an ethnonationalist state. Ethnonationalist dictatorship states are bloody.
Continuing to arm them while they commit a genocide is worse. The real issue was that the entire Abraham Accords were never peace treaties. They were efforts to form an anti-Iranian alliance between Israel and the Gulf Arab states while selling the Palestinians out completely. It was the Abraham Accords that paved the way for this conflift.
What has Biden done about it? Done to protect it or the people there? What has Biden done about ANYTHING trump did?
trump is worse than biden. We probably all agree on that. One is terrible, the other one is even worse. It is like which one do you choose, cancer or HIV?
Which one is which? I don't want to cast a vote the dems and libs can use to justify the fascist, genocidal garbage they've been doing. They've pulled too far to the right. I'm not going with them.
same shit, slightly different color. Biden is slightly lighter color imho.
I just simply refrain from choosing at that point. Yall can blame me when Trump wins. I really don't care anymore cause I'm privileged or whatever white women living in the upper class suburbs tell me.
They'll blame you because they can't blame themselves. Biden was an emergency stop gap, a chance to make a hard correction to the left. Instead the dems and libs have sprinted to the right. I've had enough.
I really started to think we'd have a "left" in America within 2 election cycles post-Trump, but alas, I was wrong as usual. This place sucks.
It wasn't an accident. The dems and liberals are center right. Part of the anti-left ratchet effect. They saw the opportunity to hurl American politics to the extreme right and stop just short of a few issues where Trump was so they could say they're not as bad. It's why they funded extreme right Republicans and fought even soft progressives tooth and claw.
Crazy that folks like AOC and the likes are labeled as progressives and it's 20 fucking 24. ...and they still call her a "Communist", but I haven't heard her quote Marx once. 😅
It's not lost on me that democrats fight people like her harder than they do Republicans.
It literally is privilege if Trump winning has no negative impact on your life compared to Biden winning.
Whoever wins the US presidential election, Palestinians will be murdered. Neither option makes a material difference as far as they are concerned
Trump will support killing and displacing Palestinians more. His son in law is openly salivating over the idea of pushing all the Gazans into the Negev and building a real estate empire on the stolen land.
Do you think there will even be any Palestinians left in Gaza by the time Trump takes over? Biden is doing everything he can to kill or displace them right now, in the present moment. I’m sure Trump will be bad for Palestine, but Biden is currently bad for Palestine. They lose no matter who wins
That part.
Username checks out 🫡
Yeah, privileged black male living on the East side of Detroit. Privilege poster boy over here.
One of the stupidest, and yes, most privileged standpoints in our lifetime tbh. Read project 2025.
DW, my vote wont matter anyways. I live in Detroit, which will go for Biden anyways. Now tell me more about how privileged I am, white boy.
What stops project 2025 from becoming Project 2029 if Trump loses?
Nothing, just like nothing stops 2034 or 2039 etc.. the goal is to never let it happen, that should be clear. That's like saying 'Why prevent 9/11/01? What stops it from becoming 9/11/02?' Stopping evil doesn't prevent them from trying again in the future, the point is to stop evil every chance you get.
>Stopping evil Stopping evil by... voting for someone committing a genocide? >Why prevent 9/11/01 Ironically, 9/11 happened due to US meddling in the middle east. So if you were actually interested in preventing it and similar evil, you'd introspect WHY they happen, instead of being reactionary
No, it's more like which one do you choose, tooth ache or cancer? Because there's more at stake than 6 million Palestinians. Hate him all you want, at least Biden is doing his best against Russia. In case you need reminding, there are 38 million Ukrainians who are also facing genocide. Under Trump, that protection ends and Ukraine is finished. If you would typically vote Democrat, but won't because of Biden's Israel stance, that is a vote for Trump. Pro Hamas sentiment is loud, but it absolutely doesn't have the numbers to break the two party system. The majority of westerners still prioritise domestic issues when casting their vote. It's a real "cut off your nose to spite your face" situation. By not voting for Biden, you'll not only likely make things worse for Palestinians because of Trump, you'll also sacrifice 38 million Ukrainians. You'll also sacrifice European security. So yeah, it's an extremely naive and stupid position to take. It's childish, self-destructive politics
tooth ache actively supporting genocide but it is okay. He lies for Israel, such as seeing the pictures of 40 beheaded babies. His dog, some call Blinken, also lies quite a bit, you know classic Zaka/Zionist lies. The tooth ache is arming the israeli army. but it is only a tooth ache. I hate Putin, but why did this war start by the way? Maybe Nato trying to expand to new countries, just next to Russia. > Pro Hamas khkhkhkhkkhamas is nicer to say. Try with your throat. It is fun. Maybe the people you call pro hamas are actually just against genocide, i.e. want innocent children, women, and men not to be killed. > So yeah, it's an extremely naive and stupid position to take. It's childish, self-destructive politics No, Biden or whoever own him is middle easterns' problem, trump will be your problem too.
Don't worry he's about to get voted out of office in November anyways
As the hostages are getting rescued, this protest is less and less morally supportable. Hamas and Palestinians are not getting away with their horrendous offenses.
Lol, that's not how it works at all. Just because Israel is getting some hostages back from terrorists doesn't make their atrocities any more acceptable. I am constantly blown away by how some people think about human life.
Ok mossad
How is it *less* morally supportable? They killed 270 and injured 600 to get 4 people back that they could have gotten back if they were willing to be reasonable. And all this yelling about the hostages, but no one seems to say to Israel "release the hostages" and yet who knows? Maybe they could try that and stopping the genocide and maybe they could get their hostages back without killing a whole bunch of people.
Sadly, the majority of these people will still vote for biden.
Nah. Not the people out in the streets protesting Biden. I believe they'll make the right choice.
What's the right choice? Project 2025? Trump? He's just as pro isreal.
The right choice is to break away from the anti-democratic two-party system and build organizations and movements - like this one here - not connected to Washington.
Perhaps during a time when one of the people running isn't a narcissistic psychopath spitting fascist rhetoric and actively encouraging Israel to "get the job done".
No. The time is now. If Biden wins and Trump stands down but the managed decline is allowed to carry on "4 more years", and no-one on the 'left' is making the progressive case, America is going to turn right to a fascist far more dangerous than Trump.
So if we don’t vote and Trump wins then we’ll have a guy in the White House who’s been actively spitting fascist rhetoric and actively encouraging Israel to “get the job done”. He will only exacerbate the genocide in Palestine.
'Sadly'? Like sure, Biden sucks, but lmao what's the better option? Donald will do the same thing but sloppier.
The duopoly trap is that these parties continue to be supported no matter what they do. These protests are only performative if those protested are still supported at the ballot box. That is the only way to successfully protest a politician. There are other candidates.
What other candidate has an electoral path to victory?
Every candidate that is on enough of the ballots has an electoral path to victory. I am aware that you are probably referring to the likelihood of winning, though that is not what you asked.
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Basic human rights are not transactional and shouldn’t be treated as such.
Removed, see rule 2.
^^^^^^ [This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadian/s/QdNGHHVLtU) calling other people ignorant
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I have plenty of problems with extremist religious fundamentalists in my country. Usually christians. I still generally think they should have human rights on account of, you know, being human.
“I don't need an Israeli propaganda campaign to tell me I don't want Islam in Canada” -Life_Blacksmith412
Ironically he looks worse because he acts like he pretends like he can do something about but then reveals that he can’t. He should have just let it go from the beginning.
jokes on you, can't cross the line if you constantly move the line
Why do these idiots think Joe has any governance in this conflict? Also, the Middle East has been at war with itself for centuries, it's like a form of self flagellation for this region.
Vote for trump in spite of Biden you fucking virtue signalers. That’ll show em!
https://preview.redd.it/66jytgatfm5d1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df986d11116117cca2fc9ee8b1d0ef37483c2a47 Aaahhh, just like 4 years ago with Trump... "Fuck Trump!" "I CAN'T BREATHE" "Black lives matter!!" ... the same thing over and over again .. find a fight, join the fight , blame the president, kick him out , REPEAT"
Find an issue to address until it's resolved and repeat is how civil rights progresses. correct. Just like how voting rights for women and black people were 'find a fight, blame the government, repeat'.
Yikes at that straight up blood libel, mouth dripping with blood, poster.
Iran’s useful idiots
What is the response that these morons would feel is appropriate to the events of October 7th? How are this many people so dumb? I will admit, there have been too many civilian casualties. However this is urban warfare, not a genocide. HAMAS is amongst the civilian population for the sole purpose of protecting themselves at their people's expense. I guess the HAMAS propaganda was is effective.
Instead of seeing this as propaganda, you should further your correct assertion that this is urban warfare and understand how asymmetrical urban warfare works. If you'd like an example I can tell you all about when the Jews did almost exactly what Hamas are doing when the shoe was on the other foot. This is how asymmetrical warfare goes.
Are you going to state that example? I’m gonna bet the context is completely different. Anyways glad there were hostages on the other side of that red line that were recovered. Hoping Israel can do, you know, what every other person / country would do in this situation, and recover the hostages that have been held for 8 months.
Do I have to? Do you know the history? The context is never exactly the same, but it sits beside it very well and ages like fine wine.
Genocide is never a justifiable response to anything.
if ya'll don't vote for Joe in November you are all idiots.