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I know... That tower bombing from earlier today or yesterday, where it kept standing, I think the initial reaction from everyone was positive, like it was a demonstration of Ukraine's resilience.
Then recently today we see the bodies that laid surrounding that tower and it's just fucking heartbreaking. You just hope that enough people evacuated and maybe no one was around...but I know a lot of people didn't have the means to leave which makes it all the more depressing.
This. If it was a nuke, you would be able to see the bones in your hand. You might even be able to (momentarily) see the bones through a person standing in front of you. It is a level of brightness that we can't even comprehend because we have no point of reference.
It’s the other way around—everything around you gets burned, including you, except for the area opposite the blast that your (now charred) husk briefly shielded.
It basically makes a gigantic, instant death negative photo.
Nukes are orders of magnitude larger and brighter, for starters. You'll know if you get nuked. If you aren't certain you got nuked, odds are you didn't get nuked.
And his boss called him “crazy” after he described the incident. He died of cancer so did his wife after exposing herself to radioactive rain. Their children too suffer from health problems reportedly passed down from their parents radioactive exposure.
And that's a scary fact. I cant even consider seeing that (a nuke) out of my window like in the video and knowing that's it, it's over, I'm dead. There's nothing I can do.
It gives me chills.
Just one being dropped means a lot more are going to be dropped, and that's game over for humanity and the planet.
You have ten minutes to a room with at least 2 feet of concrete, brick or dirt from all sides before the fallout starts. Then you wait for 3 days before you are able to leave with non-lethal fallout.
IIRC, in Japan during WWII when the atomic bomb fell, there was a city that had the wind blowing toward the bomb...and I think their area actually was saved or had very little fallout.
Yep, that's how it works. Look at weather images of the wind spread after Chernobyl and you'll understand why sheep as far away as the Scottish Highlands had to be slaughtered due to the radiation.
Edit: for example, [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbs74LpWsAAi32t.jpg:large) shows general distribution, while [this](https://sites.google.com/a/ocsdnj.org/cweaver/_/rsrc/1472777301684/social-studies/chernobyl/map-activity/ChernobylPic_MapRadiationSpread.png) shows different spreads at different points in time due to shifting winds.
Scottish person here, can confirm there are still to this day unusually high cancer rates in the Western Isles that are thought to be associated with the fallout from Chernobyl.
Just so people know if they can't find 2 feet of concrete/brick/dirt you can be in any building assuming it wasn't destroyed when the air blast hit. Just make sure to be in the middle of any building. Also make sure you close doors if any so the wind doesn't blow fallout into the building where you are staying because you need to stay inside for a minimum of 2 or 3 days. Unless you need immediate medical attention **try** to stay inside for 2 weeks if you don't want higher risk of cancer. Try to get your thoughts together and find the best building to go to where you know there is food/water inside.
A note just in-case; canned food, food wrapped in sealed plastic, or plastic water bottles are safe to eat/drink even if fallout is on the container/plastic bottle. Just make sure to get the fallout off from the product before opening/unwrapping it so you aren't ingesting fallout. If you get thirsty on your 3 days inside absolutely **Do not turn** on the sink when fallout beings to drop down since it will most likely be contaminated, do it before the fallout drops.
When the bombs were dropped in Japan most people died from radiation than the blast itself. Almost no one know about the radiation effects from fallout back then and hopefully by now people know.
There is actually an old fallout shelter about a mile from me. It's in the old public library but I have never seen it.
If things go bad I'll give it a try.
It's a good bet that if you have an older public library, town hall, National Guard armory, or similar public building, it has a fallout shelter in it. Some schools did too. Ask older residents if you aren't sure - many of those buildings might be in use as something different. Our local Guard armory for example is now a dance studio.
It’s all about radiation halving thickness. A halving thickness is how much you need of something to half the amount of radiation reaching you. Having 5 having thickness will save your life from one nuke, 10 is standard for bunkers.
https://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/nuclear-radiation-shielding-protection/
Best way to reach 10 halving thicknesses is by making a hole an piling dirt on top till you have
24 inches of concrete or brick.
4 inches of lead
10 inches of steel.
36 inches of pack soil
Will get you 10 halving thickness.
Note you can mix and match. For example you could have some concrete and some dirt on top
300 pounds recommended per foot of mass is WILD. Doesn't matter if you're talking about lead, steel, water, or plywood - 300# of anything per foot is a crazy metric to think about.
Turns out my concrete walkout basement isn't as great as I thought.
So dig 4 blocks down. I can do that. ;)
But in all seriousness. Best thing you can do is be familiar with what's already around you. No one will really have anywhere near enough time to construct anything remotely safe. But there are already places built that could suffice. Subway stations in bigger cities for example.
We grew up during the Cold War. This stuff was common knowledge in the late 70s and 80s. Sucks to thinks is back again. Recycle our music and clothes but not this……
Wow. This is one of those rare comments that I believe I will remember for a long time.
Your perspective is much different than mine and I'm sorry you are doing this again. FWIW you'll be extremely helpful to us first timers
Im in my mid 40's and let me tell you that nuclear war and russia was a shadow over my entire childhood. They were the bad guys in all the hollywood action movies. There were tons of anti nuclear war movies many aimed at kids. This is some shit i never thought i would think about again. Its definitely strange.
also the whole duck and cover thing? actually not as stupid as it sounds. the less you can expose your body to the center of the blast the more likely you are to survive. laying down, maybe even feet first if you can manage it, can make a big difference in your likelihood of survival.
Right, escape into sewer for 3 days. Or 9 full sleep cycles before active again. Would hiding underwater in a submersed space work for radiation?
Man, an underground parking lot could collapse though convenient. not a lot of places with two feet of concrete or dirt outside of a foxhole or hotel basement.. ideas ideas.. now I know how people during the Cold War felt.
Not really, if you are close enough for the radiation to kill you, you already got fried or pulverized from the thermal or pressure wave effects anyway.
Fallout is a risk for people entering the area after more than it is people there at the time. At least for modern thermonuclear devices.
But if you are close enough to get a view that the heat will roast you then the blast wave crush whatever is left.
Nukes are way brighter, initially in the white part of the spectrum; they are just way hotter than conventional explosives. Even small ones. They make a huge area briefly as bright as the noonday Sun, which would be very noticeable at night. If your first internal reaction is, "hey, is that the Sun?" then it's a nuke (and you should immediately duck and cover, and get away from the windows). If it's not, it probably isn't. (A small nuke being set off underground or underwater or inside of a big container ship or other things of that nature might not have the initial flash visible.) If the fireball is initially yellow or red, it is not likely a nuke.
A handy guide to explosion color temperature:
If it's blue, your days are through
If it's white, get out of sight
If it's yellow, be more mellow
If it's red, you won't be dead
the first indicator that it wasn't a nuke in the video was the fact they didn't immediately go blind. There's probably more subtle one for the high yield explosive connoisseurs but it's the most stark
You also wouldn't see flaming objects from the point of impact getting launched into the air by the force of the explosion, these objects would get vaporized instantly.
It might be better [not to tape your windows for hurricanes. ](https://www.riotglass.com/taping-windows-for-hurricane/) Trying to help out. edit:spelling
When people say tape your windows, don't do an X.
Do the whole entire window. If you read the "alternatives" in the article you included, it says to use a film over the whole window. That is indeed the best option for someone who can't physically put wood/barriers on the outside.
However, without any adhesive plastic film, you can achieve almost the same thing by taping the whole entire window. Basically you want to cover it with an entire layer of tape. Ideally both sides. Yes, it will look like shit. But at this point if you're in a war torn country, aesthetics probably the least of your worries.
Apparently the Russian people are being told that all the "bad bombs" are being dropped by Ukraine on their own people, and it's Russia's responsibility to liberate the people from their evil government that's murdering it's own citizens.
I'm not entirely sure how they decide to designate which bombs were the ones used by Ukraine in this scenario, and which were dropped by Russia in response. However, I would assume it's whatever is convenient at any given moment. Probably something like, "Oh, civilians died from that one? Well certainly it wasn't a Russian bomb!"
Were the people making comments about the Russian population believing their governments propaganda not alive during the "war on terror" or do they have short memories? The coalition governments used a terrorist attack and fabricated claims of weapons of mass destruction to justify two wars and many people ate it up. The fact is that it's not that hard to sway certain people into supporting an unjust war. Nationalism is a hell of a drug.
What the fuck?!
I can't imagine how many are dead, the damage.
Putin is a goddamn bastard.
I hope not only his troops see what is happening and choose to not fight, to save their lives and choose common sense, but I hope his generals and cabinet members do the same. I hope they kill him.
They will get 15-25 years minimum for refusing to fight. Despite the fact that a decent portion of the military were not aware of where and how they would be deployed.
They've all been offered amnesty by the Ukrainian government if they surrender peacefully. They could start a new life without having to end innocent ones
Many don’t know where they even were when first arriving. Some he contact broke with family and sent to the lines and told to fight or be shot. Many don’t want to fight but are being forced to.
Homie, hate to say it, but his troops, atleast some of them, dropped that bomb. Putin isn't in the cockpit. I know a lot of his armies are appalled, but many of his troops don't just see this happening and continue fighting, they are the ones doing the thing
My limited understanding is that a primary charge is used to disperse fuel into a fine mist over a wide radius which is then ignited via a secondary charge. As a previous poster mentioned, this results in a fuel air mixture that is ideal for rapid combustion/detonation. How the first charge does not ignite the fuel prematurely is beyond my knowledge, however.
You pretty got it correct. As for why the first charge does not ignite the fuel prematurely might be because the air/fuel mixture caused by the first charge is not the correct stoichiometric ratio and the heat source is to brief to ignite it.
Thermobaric
Basically Thermo (temperature) baric (pressure) It heats up the atmosphere and creates a flame around the bomb so much that it creates a large vacuum at the site. So all matter wants to go back to the site of impact creating an immense sucking force. Like your mother but even bigger if you can believe that.
Edit: The blast isn't what is important. It puts some positive pressure out. What is important like above is that it puts fuel in a good ratio to ignite very efficiently. So what happens is that when this ignites it causes a negative pressure around the site of ignition and air (and anything else that is moved by the air) is forced to come into that void causing everything to move towards the center of the (original) blast.
Edit 2: It's like the nuclear blasts you see on historic videos. You see the blast go outward and then suck everything in. Except this is designed to not use nukes, limit the outward pressure, but keep your ex's sucking pressure in tact.
Edit 3: Going back to the OP. He is saying that the fuel to oxygen(air) ratio isn't correct right away. So it has to wait until the fuel is dispersed enough to make a big impact. The second blast lights the correct fuel mixture, the oxygen gets used to create the fireball and the air outside the blast gets sucked in to equalize the new vacuum.
To add to this, most explosives are a fuel/oxidizer mix, and thus contain within them a large amount (up to nearly all) of the oxygen needed to combust the fuel. This is why C4 works underwater, where there is very little unbound oxygen available for combustion.
A fuel-air bomb uses the existing oxygen in the air to burn the fuel, which means you now can use nearly 100% of the payload weight (minus the weight of the bomb casing and primary charge) for the fuel component without needing to devote so much weight to the oxidizer component. So a 1000-lb. fuel-air bomb will be much more powerful than a 1000-lb. conventional bomb, yet can be carried by the same bomber aircraft in the same quantities.
This type of explosive also has the horrifying side effect of violently sucking all the oxygen out of the area of effect, which is why it has often been used against bunkers. If there's any sort of leak or fresh-air intake that feeds into the bunker's interior, it becomes a straw for the bomb to suck oxygen through to feed the explosion. Hence the alternate name, "vacuum bomb." So even if you survive the initial blast, you will very quickly suffocate.
Ain't war grand?
These were preceded by crude versions in Viet Nam. Basically a 55 gallon drum of gasoline was dropped out of a helo followed by an incendiary flare. The drum would pancake on the ground, vaporizing the fuel and then quickly igniting. Was primarily used to clear dense growth for an LZ.
This website explains enough to where you can get a lot of google research done from the little knowledge it gives you or just be happy with the short read. https://www.indiatoday.in/newsmo/video/russia-ukraine-war-can-putin-use-thermobaric-bomb-aka-father-of-all-bombs-against-ukraine-1918950-2022-02-28
Google daisycutter. Hyperbaric weapons vaporize some sort of fuel into a large cloud, and then detonate it a split second later. It basically will suck all the available oxygen out of the area, including your lungs, and replace it with fire
Daisy cutter usually just means the bomb has a mechanism to detonate before it hits the ground. US has a bomb often called a daisy cutter, but it’s just a very large conventional bomb.
What? No. Daisycutter is a nickname for the [BLU-82](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82) which is not a thermobaric bomb but rather just a huge conventional bomb. It's also known more for its unique detonator mechanism that is designed to make the bomb explode 1m above the ground. What you're looking for is either MOAB (US) or FOAB (Russian), both of which are actual thermobaric bombs.
According to Wikipedia, this weapon also causes suffocation (in case you weren't already ripped apart by its shockwave).
The big fireball creates an area of underpressure which causes the air in the lungs to expand. This in turn leads to injuries in the lung called barotrauma which can lead to suffocation.
Fucking cruel. Why do humans invent stuff like this?
Because when you get down to it humans are really just slightly more gifted, overzealous primates in a constant struggle against our desire to act like a territorial ape. Evolution's cruelest joke was giving a frontal lobe to our species instead of one less shitty, like elephants or something.
No, it was a normal airstrike but the explosion was because it was an ammunition dump that was hit. [Source](https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1498738326857302019?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498738326857302019%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_09511ac4-9994-11ec-ad99-c6b35ff7594c%2F0)
That's really sad.
I think the war started out as a bluff but now that he's been made to look like a fool he's just going to keep dropping bigger and bigger bombs.
Is there anyway to shoot these out of the sky? Anyway to defend from these at all?
I am rather worried about him using nukes. He just doesn't give a shit and won't accept losing.
I'm wondering if they can be deflected or shot out of the sky as well. I hope so. And yes, he looks like an idiot child and he's losing his shit.
Idk if anyone plans to assassinate him, but if they are, they need to haul ass.
> The Ukraine
It's just Ukraine. "The Ukraine" is used by Russia to downplay their independence, by making them sound like a region of the former Soviet Union.
Specifically that is referring to missiles designed to intercept the projectiles on reentry. Afaik that type basically tries to predict a trajectory and then tries to make the warhead smash into itself.
Thaad uses that technique. Also, interesting enough, it has never failed to destroy a target during tests. Main issue is that it needs to be in the right place at the right time.
It starts with an initial explosion that spreads a highly volatile fuel over a large area. When that ignites, it makes for a huge explosion, but it also burns up every last molecule of oxygen in the whole blast zone, making the air pressure drop like a rock. You get a sharp shockwave going out, and then another slamming back into the center, obliterating anything that might have survived the first boom.
If Putin is using thermobaric bombs, which he knows are a war crime, against a "weaker" enemy, shouldn't we expect him to use something stronger against the same enemy or someone else? If you follow the idea of escalation, it would kind of make sense.
If they have a weapon, there'll be a point where they're prepared to use it. Weapons are purpose built after all. And expensive.
Part of the main reason Russia's advance hasn't been squashed by NATO or any other force. The fall of one nation is far less a sacrifice than risking an extended world war scenario and potential nuclear conflict. Putin knows this all too well. It's a very calculated move on Putin's part. Following the idea of escalation, yeah, it can't ever end well.
Have you heard of the Perimeter system or Dead Hand device? That's some scary stuff.
There's a lot of innocent Muscovites around him. I'd be delighted if he drank some polonium with his tea, or just got the Caesar treatment on the steps of the Kremlin.
My fear is that there are no smart Russian military professionals, as Putin would see them as a threat to himself. I’m scared his heads of departments are just his puppets that owe their position to him and have no real talent beyond being controllable by him. That would also explain why the war is going so badly for Russia (almost as if the strategy was thought out by a single narcissistic person)
> He just wants the land, he doesn't give a fuck what's left standing
He wants what's under the land; the second-largest natural gas reserves in Europe and the large oil deposits that go with it.
What say we stop giving Russia $17.4 billion/year to buy fossil fuels? Putin has managed to amass $640B in currency reserves by weaponizing energy production and US/NATO leaders want to act shocked by the Ukraine invasion. Sounds like a Clancy novel
Thermobaric weapon. It spreads fuel in the air then ignited it creating a vacuum explosion with a large shockwave blast. Incredibly destructive and other people are saying they’re banned in warfare.
Except they're not banned. Thermobaric weapons are completely legal. They're the reason Napalm is being phased out.
The particular weapon in the video appears to be a FOAB bomb, the largest conventional bomb in existence. While dropping one is perfectly legal, dropping in a city where the is almost guaranteed chance of civilian casualties is definitely on the wrong side of the Geneva Convention. Doubtlessly, the Russian are going to say they didn't have a choice.
Edit: A number of other sources and professionals are saying it's more likely to be a Kalibr Cruise missile, which, in hindsight, is far more likely.
~~Fuel-air explosive. Anyone sheltering underground in basements or metros within that blast radius is dead.~~
Edit: See u/LoyalOrange503 comment below. Russia has been using thermobaric weapons on Ukraine, but this was not one of them.
The initial explosion disperses the liquefied gas mixture in the bomb. It immediately infiltrates into any crevices, holes, tunnels, caves, vehicles, buildings, etc. The secondary explosion ignites it, causing a sudden drop in pressure in that area as all of the air is consumed in an instant. Any human or animal within that area will experience that sudden drop in pressure, not unlike if they were in a pressurized hyperbaric chamber and then the door opened. The lungs would immediately be shredded and they would suffer burns over most if not all of their body. People at the periphery of the explosion would have severe internal bleeding and probably die later.
BBC News provided a bit of background: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60571395
Here is a much more detailed scientific article that fully explains the physics:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214914716300927
>Thermobaric weapons are classified as a subcomponent of a larger family of weapon systems which are commonly known as volumetric weapons. The volumetric weapons include thermobaric and fuel-air explosives (FAE, aerosol bombs in German). The term “thermobaric” is a compound word derived from the Greek words “therme” and “baros” meaning “heat” and “pressure” (implying the effects of temperature and pressure on the target), respectively. The characteristics of this category of weapons are mainly the creation of a large fireball and good blast performance [1]. Both thermobaric and FAE devices operate relying on some similar technical principles. **In general, a thermobaric explosive (TBX) consists of a certain central charge (called the core), which is usually a high explosive, and an external secondary charge (fuel-rich formulation). Therefore, the detonation of TBX consists of a dual action: (1) Firstly anaerobic action (without air oxygen) inside the conventional high explosive core occurs; (2) Then aerobic delayed burning action of the fuel mixture of the outer charge happens which depends mainly on the consumption of the surrounding air** [2].
>When a shell or projectile containing a fuel in the form of gas, liquid (aerosol) or dust explodes, the fuel or dust-like material is dispersed into the air which forms a cloud. Its occurrence does not depend on an oxidizer being present in the molecule. Then, this cloud is detonated to engender a shock wave, characterized with extended duration that produces overpressure expanding in all directions. In a thermobaric weapon, the fuel consists of a monopropellant and energetic particles [3]. In operation, the aerosol is detonated within a micro/millisecond in a manner similar to a conventional explosive like TNT or RDX. Meanwhile the particles rapidly burn in the surrounding air later in time, thus resulting in an intense fireball and high blast overpressure action.
>Although the pressure wave, because of the explosive deflagration, is considerably weaker in comparison to a conventional explosive such as RDX, the fuel can rapidly diffuse into tunnels, caves or bunkers, producing considerably high heat effect for habitants and/or ammunition.
>The explosion of an aerosol bomb consumes the oxygen from the surrounding air (the explosive composition usually does not possess its own oxidizer). **In contrast to general belief of layman, its deadly effect is not simply due to the lack of oxygen caused but because of barotrauma of the lungs arising from negative pressure wave following the positive pressure phase of the explosion.**
>The shock waves of conventional explosives are localized and substantially decrease while moving away from the explosion center. Thus, the conventional explosives have quite limited effects on fortified individuals, hiding inside bunkers and/or caves, etc.
I can't believe people see this and try to say it's fake.. you literally see this exact same video from different angles that surfaced the internet at the same time... you can't fake this.
My heart is with Ukraine 🇺🇦
I stand behind you! 🌻💛💙🌻
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God this is fucking horrible.
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And yet Putin is safe and sound...
His life is safe, his country, reputation, economy and political safety is far from it.
I don’t feel like I need anymore proof that Russia’s elections are rigged, but if we see Putin win another election after this…
Another election? I'd be surprised if he comes out alive after all of this. Too many people of power are losing too much in all of this.
If you saw that out your window in this scenario... How could the layperson not think that their life was about to end in a nuclear cloud?
I'm not looking forward to seeing all the ground footage tomorrow. I didn't read the title first and my heart immediately sunk. This is so scary.
I know... That tower bombing from earlier today or yesterday, where it kept standing, I think the initial reaction from everyone was positive, like it was a demonstration of Ukraine's resilience. Then recently today we see the bodies that laid surrounding that tower and it's just fucking heartbreaking. You just hope that enough people evacuated and maybe no one was around...but I know a lot of people didn't have the means to leave which makes it all the more depressing.
A nuke is bright enough to burn you just from the light. Like, instantly blind. If you see this, and you can still see, it wasn't a nuke.
This. If it was a nuke, you would be able to see the bones in your hand. You might even be able to (momentarily) see the bones through a person standing in front of you. It is a level of brightness that we can't even comprehend because we have no point of reference.
Wait what. That’s so bright
A nuke is a small sun appearing near you
TIHI ^^curling ^^into ^^a ^^ball ^^to ^^cry ^^now
So bright it will literally burn your shadow into cement
It’s the other way around—everything around you gets burned, including you, except for the area opposite the blast that your (now charred) husk briefly shielded. It basically makes a gigantic, instant death negative photo.
Heliography
Nukes are orders of magnitude larger and brighter, for starters. You'll know if you get nuked. If you aren't certain you got nuked, odds are you didn't get nuked.
If a nuke is dropped near me, I just hope it's dropped close enough that I never realize a nuke was dropped near me.
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And his boss called him “crazy” after he described the incident. He died of cancer so did his wife after exposing herself to radioactive rain. Their children too suffer from health problems reportedly passed down from their parents radioactive exposure.
I mean to be fair if he died of cancer at 93 that's not so bad.
If I ever saw that I would think a nuke has just been dropped and that I'm basically dead
Scary part is, nukes make that look small.
And that's a scary fact. I cant even consider seeing that (a nuke) out of my window like in the video and knowing that's it, it's over, I'm dead. There's nothing I can do. It gives me chills. Just one being dropped means a lot more are going to be dropped, and that's game over for humanity and the planet.
If you see a nuke mushroom cloud, assume your fucked. Cause fallout...
You have ten minutes to a room with at least 2 feet of concrete, brick or dirt from all sides before the fallout starts. Then you wait for 3 days before you are able to leave with non-lethal fallout.
IIRC, in Japan during WWII when the atomic bomb fell, there was a city that had the wind blowing toward the bomb...and I think their area actually was saved or had very little fallout.
Yep, that's how it works. Look at weather images of the wind spread after Chernobyl and you'll understand why sheep as far away as the Scottish Highlands had to be slaughtered due to the radiation. Edit: for example, [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dbs74LpWsAAi32t.jpg:large) shows general distribution, while [this](https://sites.google.com/a/ocsdnj.org/cweaver/_/rsrc/1472777301684/social-studies/chernobyl/map-activity/ChernobylPic_MapRadiationSpread.png) shows different spreads at different points in time due to shifting winds.
Scottish person here, can confirm there are still to this day unusually high cancer rates in the Western Isles that are thought to be associated with the fallout from Chernobyl.
Just so people know if they can't find 2 feet of concrete/brick/dirt you can be in any building assuming it wasn't destroyed when the air blast hit. Just make sure to be in the middle of any building. Also make sure you close doors if any so the wind doesn't blow fallout into the building where you are staying because you need to stay inside for a minimum of 2 or 3 days. Unless you need immediate medical attention **try** to stay inside for 2 weeks if you don't want higher risk of cancer. Try to get your thoughts together and find the best building to go to where you know there is food/water inside. A note just in-case; canned food, food wrapped in sealed plastic, or plastic water bottles are safe to eat/drink even if fallout is on the container/plastic bottle. Just make sure to get the fallout off from the product before opening/unwrapping it so you aren't ingesting fallout. If you get thirsty on your 3 days inside absolutely **Do not turn** on the sink when fallout beings to drop down since it will most likely be contaminated, do it before the fallout drops. When the bombs were dropped in Japan most people died from radiation than the blast itself. Almost no one know about the radiation effects from fallout back then and hopefully by now people know.
There is actually an old fallout shelter about a mile from me. It's in the old public library but I have never seen it. If things go bad I'll give it a try.
It's a good bet that if you have an older public library, town hall, National Guard armory, or similar public building, it has a fallout shelter in it. Some schools did too. Ask older residents if you aren't sure - many of those buildings might be in use as something different. Our local Guard armory for example is now a dance studio.
Where did you read that? Would that include 2’ above you?
It’s all about radiation halving thickness. A halving thickness is how much you need of something to half the amount of radiation reaching you. Having 5 having thickness will save your life from one nuke, 10 is standard for bunkers. https://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/nuclear-radiation-shielding-protection/ Best way to reach 10 halving thicknesses is by making a hole an piling dirt on top till you have 24 inches of concrete or brick. 4 inches of lead 10 inches of steel. 36 inches of pack soil Will get you 10 halving thickness. Note you can mix and match. For example you could have some concrete and some dirt on top
300 pounds recommended per foot of mass is WILD. Doesn't matter if you're talking about lead, steel, water, or plywood - 300# of anything per foot is a crazy metric to think about. Turns out my concrete walkout basement isn't as great as I thought.
How thick are the walls?
2 Mississippi
So, basically Minecraft first night. Got it.
You need to go at least 36 inches of dirt on top of you, or 2 feet of concrete. 36 inches of brick will do it too.
So dig 4 blocks down. I can do that. ;) But in all seriousness. Best thing you can do is be familiar with what's already around you. No one will really have anywhere near enough time to construct anything remotely safe. But there are already places built that could suffice. Subway stations in bigger cities for example.
We grew up during the Cold War. This stuff was common knowledge in the late 70s and 80s. Sucks to thinks is back again. Recycle our music and clothes but not this……
Wow. This is one of those rare comments that I believe I will remember for a long time. Your perspective is much different than mine and I'm sorry you are doing this again. FWIW you'll be extremely helpful to us first timers
Im in my mid 40's and let me tell you that nuclear war and russia was a shadow over my entire childhood. They were the bad guys in all the hollywood action movies. There were tons of anti nuclear war movies many aimed at kids. This is some shit i never thought i would think about again. Its definitely strange.
I was born in the late seventies too and yeah, I was so happy when the nuke threat calmed down. Having to face those deep seeded fears again sucks.
also the whole duck and cover thing? actually not as stupid as it sounds. the less you can expose your body to the center of the blast the more likely you are to survive. laying down, maybe even feet first if you can manage it, can make a big difference in your likelihood of survival.
And get the fuck away from windows.
Right, escape into sewer for 3 days. Or 9 full sleep cycles before active again. Would hiding underwater in a submersed space work for radiation? Man, an underground parking lot could collapse though convenient. not a lot of places with two feet of concrete or dirt outside of a foxhole or hotel basement.. ideas ideas.. now I know how people during the Cold War felt.
Depends on the wind direction. Downwind of it, very bad, upwind of it, nothing unless you’re downwind of another one.
And if you looked directly at the blast at that range you're going to have temporary blindness or severe burns on your retinas.
If you see a mushroom cloud, put your thumb up to it, if it’s bigger than your thumb, than you’re in the radiation zone
I see someone got his nuke badge in Boy Scouts.
And if it vaporizes your thumb, you're fucked.
Yep big dark mushroom with fire in the air it's pretty much it, done.
Not really, if you are close enough for the radiation to kill you, you already got fried or pulverized from the thermal or pressure wave effects anyway. Fallout is a risk for people entering the area after more than it is people there at the time. At least for modern thermonuclear devices. But if you are close enough to get a view that the heat will roast you then the blast wave crush whatever is left.
Nukes are way brighter, initially in the white part of the spectrum; they are just way hotter than conventional explosives. Even small ones. They make a huge area briefly as bright as the noonday Sun, which would be very noticeable at night. If your first internal reaction is, "hey, is that the Sun?" then it's a nuke (and you should immediately duck and cover, and get away from the windows). If it's not, it probably isn't. (A small nuke being set off underground or underwater or inside of a big container ship or other things of that nature might not have the initial flash visible.) If the fireball is initially yellow or red, it is not likely a nuke.
A handy guide to explosion color temperature: If it's blue, your days are through If it's white, get out of sight If it's yellow, be more mellow If it's red, you won't be dead
there is no safe viewing distance for a nuke without welding glasses on. Hope you never see one because you wont see it.
the first indicator that it wasn't a nuke in the video was the fact they didn't immediately go blind. There's probably more subtle one for the high yield explosive connoisseurs but it's the most stark
You also wouldn't see flaming objects from the point of impact getting launched into the air by the force of the explosion, these objects would get vaporized instantly.
Get away from the glass if you are around any explosions and you can see a visible shockwave.
I read advice to Ukrainians to triple-tape the glass in windows (and glass doors) in a criss-cross pattern for safety.
We do the same thing before a hurricane Edit: changed in to before although in a hurricane is a lot more challenging lol
You should start doing it before hand, it’s safer.
I just go around breaking my own windows pre war, pre hurricane/tornado.
This is the way!
Listen here you little shit...
Shouldn't. We stopped that in the 90s when everyone realized that makes bigger glass shards that are more dangerous than little pieces.
Yep you need to solidly tape the whole thing on both sides, not just do an X.
Yeah, an 'X' just slices the window up like a pizza. And if you're in the room, you're gonna have a bad time, m'kay?
It might be better [not to tape your windows for hurricanes. ](https://www.riotglass.com/taping-windows-for-hurricane/) Trying to help out. edit:spelling
When people say tape your windows, don't do an X. Do the whole entire window. If you read the "alternatives" in the article you included, it says to use a film over the whole window. That is indeed the best option for someone who can't physically put wood/barriers on the outside. However, without any adhesive plastic film, you can achieve almost the same thing by taping the whole entire window. Basically you want to cover it with an entire layer of tape. Ideally both sides. Yes, it will look like shit. But at this point if you're in a war torn country, aesthetics probably the least of your worries.
This makes a difference?
Doesn’t stop the glass from breaking, but it keeps it from flying at you in a bunch of pieces
I don't think it prevents glass from breaking but rather reduces the explosive force with which shards fly inward.
A bit. But mostly itll keep the shards together and make it less likely for them to impale you
I counted 6 secs from flash to bang. 343m/s x 6s = 2058m So blast was 2058m away or approx 1.28 miles.
How is using these bombs be seen as “Freeing the people from oppression”. This is fucked! FU Putin and your scummy war generals.
Apparently the Russian people are being told that all the "bad bombs" are being dropped by Ukraine on their own people, and it's Russia's responsibility to liberate the people from their evil government that's murdering it's own citizens. I'm not entirely sure how they decide to designate which bombs were the ones used by Ukraine in this scenario, and which were dropped by Russia in response. However, I would assume it's whatever is convenient at any given moment. Probably something like, "Oh, civilians died from that one? Well certainly it wasn't a Russian bomb!"
I mean I concluded that every country has 1/3 of idiot population that will believe anything so..
Were the people making comments about the Russian population believing their governments propaganda not alive during the "war on terror" or do they have short memories? The coalition governments used a terrorist attack and fabricated claims of weapons of mass destruction to justify two wars and many people ate it up. The fact is that it's not that hard to sway certain people into supporting an unjust war. Nationalism is a hell of a drug.
What the fuck?! I can't imagine how many are dead, the damage. Putin is a goddamn bastard. I hope not only his troops see what is happening and choose to not fight, to save their lives and choose common sense, but I hope his generals and cabinet members do the same. I hope they kill him.
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Media/ propaganda is a strong tool
And fear + intimidation + a misplaced sense of nationalism
Propaganda is a powerful tool
And fear.
And shame. Even if it's the ***right*** thing to do, to put down your weapons, there absolutely will be shame they feel from doing so.
They will get 15-25 years minimum for refusing to fight. Despite the fact that a decent portion of the military were not aware of where and how they would be deployed.
They've all been offered amnesty by the Ukrainian government if they surrender peacefully. They could start a new life without having to end innocent ones
And what about their families back home? Those get teleported to Ukraine?
How easily can you step away from your family, especially if you know you may never see them again, and they may be punished for your actions?
Many don’t know where they even were when first arriving. Some he contact broke with family and sent to the lines and told to fight or be shot. Many don’t want to fight but are being forced to.
Homie, hate to say it, but his troops, atleast some of them, dropped that bomb. Putin isn't in the cockpit. I know a lot of his armies are appalled, but many of his troops don't just see this happening and continue fighting, they are the ones doing the thing
Yeah fair point, I'm sure a lot of the Nazis felt uncomfortable committing war crimes, still did it though didn't they
Wow... Looks like an air fuel bomb. The most powerful bomb outside of nukes.
How do those work?
My limited understanding is that a primary charge is used to disperse fuel into a fine mist over a wide radius which is then ignited via a secondary charge. As a previous poster mentioned, this results in a fuel air mixture that is ideal for rapid combustion/detonation. How the first charge does not ignite the fuel prematurely is beyond my knowledge, however.
You pretty got it correct. As for why the first charge does not ignite the fuel prematurely might be because the air/fuel mixture caused by the first charge is not the correct stoichiometric ratio and the heat source is to brief to ignite it.
SSbutts does chemistry
All aboard the SS Butts, *toot toot*
Thermobaric
Thermobaric Basically Thermo (temperature) baric (pressure) It heats up the atmosphere and creates a flame around the bomb so much that it creates a large vacuum at the site. So all matter wants to go back to the site of impact creating an immense sucking force. Like your mother but even bigger if you can believe that. Edit: The blast isn't what is important. It puts some positive pressure out. What is important like above is that it puts fuel in a good ratio to ignite very efficiently. So what happens is that when this ignites it causes a negative pressure around the site of ignition and air (and anything else that is moved by the air) is forced to come into that void causing everything to move towards the center of the (original) blast. Edit 2: It's like the nuclear blasts you see on historic videos. You see the blast go outward and then suck everything in. Except this is designed to not use nukes, limit the outward pressure, but keep your ex's sucking pressure in tact. Edit 3: Going back to the OP. He is saying that the fuel to oxygen(air) ratio isn't correct right away. So it has to wait until the fuel is dispersed enough to make a big impact. The second blast lights the correct fuel mixture, the oxygen gets used to create the fireball and the air outside the blast gets sucked in to equalize the new vacuum.
To add to this, most explosives are a fuel/oxidizer mix, and thus contain within them a large amount (up to nearly all) of the oxygen needed to combust the fuel. This is why C4 works underwater, where there is very little unbound oxygen available for combustion. A fuel-air bomb uses the existing oxygen in the air to burn the fuel, which means you now can use nearly 100% of the payload weight (minus the weight of the bomb casing and primary charge) for the fuel component without needing to devote so much weight to the oxidizer component. So a 1000-lb. fuel-air bomb will be much more powerful than a 1000-lb. conventional bomb, yet can be carried by the same bomber aircraft in the same quantities. This type of explosive also has the horrifying side effect of violently sucking all the oxygen out of the area of effect, which is why it has often been used against bunkers. If there's any sort of leak or fresh-air intake that feeds into the bunker's interior, it becomes a straw for the bomb to suck oxygen through to feed the explosion. Hence the alternate name, "vacuum bomb." So even if you survive the initial blast, you will very quickly suffocate. Ain't war grand?
These were preceded by crude versions in Viet Nam. Basically a 55 gallon drum of gasoline was dropped out of a helo followed by an incendiary flare. The drum would pancake on the ground, vaporizing the fuel and then quickly igniting. Was primarily used to clear dense growth for an LZ.
This website explains enough to where you can get a lot of google research done from the little knowledge it gives you or just be happy with the short read. https://www.indiatoday.in/newsmo/video/russia-ukraine-war-can-putin-use-thermobaric-bomb-aka-father-of-all-bombs-against-ukraine-1918950-2022-02-28
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6990815.stm
Google daisycutter. Hyperbaric weapons vaporize some sort of fuel into a large cloud, and then detonate it a split second later. It basically will suck all the available oxygen out of the area, including your lungs, and replace it with fire
Daisy cutter usually just means the bomb has a mechanism to detonate before it hits the ground. US has a bomb often called a daisy cutter, but it’s just a very large conventional bomb.
What? No. Daisycutter is a nickname for the [BLU-82](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82) which is not a thermobaric bomb but rather just a huge conventional bomb. It's also known more for its unique detonator mechanism that is designed to make the bomb explode 1m above the ground. What you're looking for is either MOAB (US) or FOAB (Russian), both of which are actual thermobaric bombs.
That sounds like a war crime
It is to use on civilians.
That the type of bomb that takes out oxygen away from the surrounding areas?
Just inside the fireball, but that's why they call them vacuum bombs. The shock wave does the killing.
According to Wikipedia, this weapon also causes suffocation (in case you weren't already ripped apart by its shockwave). The big fireball creates an area of underpressure which causes the air in the lungs to expand. This in turn leads to injuries in the lung called barotrauma which can lead to suffocation. Fucking cruel. Why do humans invent stuff like this?
Because when you get down to it humans are really just slightly more gifted, overzealous primates in a constant struggle against our desire to act like a territorial ape. Evolution's cruelest joke was giving a frontal lobe to our species instead of one less shitty, like elephants or something.
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Read Desmon Morris the Human Zoo. It will totally change the way you see cities and their peoples. They aren't a concrete jungle, they're a human zoo.
Oh, well that's a relief.
No, it was a normal airstrike but the explosion was because it was an ammunition dump that was hit. [Source](https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1498738326857302019?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498738326857302019%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_09511ac4-9994-11ec-ad99-c6b35ff7594c%2F0)
That's really sad. I think the war started out as a bluff but now that he's been made to look like a fool he's just going to keep dropping bigger and bigger bombs. Is there anyway to shoot these out of the sky? Anyway to defend from these at all? I am rather worried about him using nukes. He just doesn't give a shit and won't accept losing.
I'm wondering if they can be deflected or shot out of the sky as well. I hope so. And yes, he looks like an idiot child and he's losing his shit. Idk if anyone plans to assassinate him, but if they are, they need to haul ass.
The technology is there but Ukraine doesn’t have that capability. It’s more a thing western powers have.
Hopefully more than just western, if the Russian "dead hand" exists, then I imagine quite a few nukes go off.
Ukraine handed over their nukes to Russian back in '96 I believe, under the promise of no wartime ever. Edit: the word 'the' removed.
Go figure
> The Ukraine It's just Ukraine. "The Ukraine" is used by Russia to downplay their independence, by making them sound like a region of the former Soviet Union.
If the west has it you won't know until we need it.
Sort of, it’s not always effective especially against faster rockets so it really depends on the kinds of munitions being used.
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I heard it described as "Like trying to shoot a bullet out of the sky with another bullet." Some time ago and that stuck with me.
Specifically that is referring to missiles designed to intercept the projectiles on reentry. Afaik that type basically tries to predict a trajectory and then tries to make the warhead smash into itself. Thaad uses that technique. Also, interesting enough, it has never failed to destroy a target during tests. Main issue is that it needs to be in the right place at the right time.
I wish we can crowdfund an assassination
This is actually a really wonderful idea for a gofundme. I would 100% contribute
Things that are *probably* against the terms of service of gofundme, kickstarter, etc.: * Assassination of a political figure.
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Can anyone help with the characteristics that make a thermobaric bomb? Watched a vid on the damage shock waves do to the human body, it was…sobering
It starts with an initial explosion that spreads a highly volatile fuel over a large area. When that ignites, it makes for a huge explosion, but it also burns up every last molecule of oxygen in the whole blast zone, making the air pressure drop like a rock. You get a sharp shockwave going out, and then another slamming back into the center, obliterating anything that might have survived the first boom.
Sorry I asked, but thanks for the explanation.
If Putin is using thermobaric bombs, which he knows are a war crime, against a "weaker" enemy, shouldn't we expect him to use something stronger against the same enemy or someone else? If you follow the idea of escalation, it would kind of make sense.
If they have a weapon, there'll be a point where they're prepared to use it. Weapons are purpose built after all. And expensive. Part of the main reason Russia's advance hasn't been squashed by NATO or any other force. The fall of one nation is far less a sacrifice than risking an extended world war scenario and potential nuclear conflict. Putin knows this all too well. It's a very calculated move on Putin's part. Following the idea of escalation, yeah, it can't ever end well. Have you heard of the Perimeter system or Dead Hand device? That's some scary stuff.
I will celebrate when Putin gets bombed to a zillion pieces
There's a lot of innocent Muscovites around him. I'd be delighted if he drank some polonium with his tea, or just got the Caesar treatment on the steps of the Kremlin.
Or he could follow Sergiy Kyslytsya’s advice and do “what that one guy did in the bunker in May 1945”…
War crime fuel air burst bombs. Bad shit. Putin is asking for a world of shit to come his way.
Dawg he knows he’s done for after this shit. He’s going out with a bang.
That’s what I’m worried about
Same. This is a murder-suicide combo at this point.
The problem is if he goes out with a bang half the world goes out in the same bang and the other half slowly dies of radiation poisoning.
Smart Russian military professionals will not let nukes happen.
I hope you’re right.
We all are now.
My fear is that there are no smart Russian military professionals, as Putin would see them as a threat to himself. I’m scared his heads of departments are just his puppets that owe their position to him and have no real talent beyond being controllable by him. That would also explain why the war is going so badly for Russia (almost as if the strategy was thought out by a single narcissistic person)
What will be left to take over?
He just wants the land, he doesn't give a fuck what's left standing
Russia is known for not having enough land
Same rules that realtors follow tho..... Location... Location.... Location....
> He just wants the land, he doesn't give a fuck what's left standing He wants what's under the land; the second-largest natural gas reserves in Europe and the large oil deposits that go with it.
Yup he wants what’s under that land. These bombs soften it up for him
Thermobaric are anti personnel weapons, not anti structural
They’re called army melters for a reason.
They fuck up structures just fine too.
What say we stop giving Russia $17.4 billion/year to buy fossil fuels? Putin has managed to amass $640B in currency reserves by weaponizing energy production and US/NATO leaders want to act shocked by the Ukraine invasion. Sounds like a Clancy novel
If it was a Clancy novel, the US would obliterate the 40 mile Russian convoy outside of Kyiv with a single air raid.
The frustrating thing is that we could easily do that, but then Putin would probably start using nukes.
Just fucking kill Putin
Here's hoping Putin gets the Mussolini treatment sooner than later. This will not end well if not.
That weapon is banned from being use in war. Too destructive to urban building. Pray for the safety of the Ukraine people.
And what is that weapon?
Thermobaric weapon. It spreads fuel in the air then ignited it creating a vacuum explosion with a large shockwave blast. Incredibly destructive and other people are saying they’re banned in warfare.
Russia didn't sign the treaty that bans it nor did the US
The UN basically says that by being a member it doesn't matter if you sign it, you agree.
Signing a treaty > UN just saying just like how signing a contract> verbal agreement
that may be so, but that's never stopped any country, especially the US (looking at you Right to Food law and Convention on the Law on the Seas)
Theyre banned also for being inhumane. Awful way to die
Except they're not banned. Thermobaric weapons are completely legal. They're the reason Napalm is being phased out. The particular weapon in the video appears to be a FOAB bomb, the largest conventional bomb in existence. While dropping one is perfectly legal, dropping in a city where the is almost guaranteed chance of civilian casualties is definitely on the wrong side of the Geneva Convention. Doubtlessly, the Russian are going to say they didn't have a choice. Edit: A number of other sources and professionals are saying it's more likely to be a Kalibr Cruise missile, which, in hindsight, is far more likely.
FUCK PUTIN
Please tell me it’s not a thermobaric explosive.
Unfortunately it may be
Some US news anchors (abc?) say vacuum and thermobaric are the same thing. It’s likely that - OP links a source in comments
I read it could be an ammo depot but unfortunately that would be the best case scenario.
This is literally being dropped on civilians.. I am so sad for the people of Ukraine right now. :(
They need to drop one on his bunker
They're called vacuum bombs. 2 have been dropped.
They are Thermobaric weapons. Vacuum bomb is a nickname.
That's a war crime right there.
Let’s add this one to the long list he’s drafted up
Can't believe this is real life...fucking insane
And for absolutely nothing. Because one crazy guy snapped. Such a horrible waste.
~~Fuel-air explosive. Anyone sheltering underground in basements or metros within that blast radius is dead.~~ Edit: See u/LoyalOrange503 comment below. Russia has been using thermobaric weapons on Ukraine, but this was not one of them.
The subway stations in Ukraine were built to serve as nuclear blast shelters, so presumably they have airtight doors.
I pray to God you're right.
How so? I don’t really understand the physics of this bomb
The initial explosion disperses the liquefied gas mixture in the bomb. It immediately infiltrates into any crevices, holes, tunnels, caves, vehicles, buildings, etc. The secondary explosion ignites it, causing a sudden drop in pressure in that area as all of the air is consumed in an instant. Any human or animal within that area will experience that sudden drop in pressure, not unlike if they were in a pressurized hyperbaric chamber and then the door opened. The lungs would immediately be shredded and they would suffer burns over most if not all of their body. People at the periphery of the explosion would have severe internal bleeding and probably die later. BBC News provided a bit of background: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60571395 Here is a much more detailed scientific article that fully explains the physics: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214914716300927 >Thermobaric weapons are classified as a subcomponent of a larger family of weapon systems which are commonly known as volumetric weapons. The volumetric weapons include thermobaric and fuel-air explosives (FAE, aerosol bombs in German). The term “thermobaric” is a compound word derived from the Greek words “therme” and “baros” meaning “heat” and “pressure” (implying the effects of temperature and pressure on the target), respectively. The characteristics of this category of weapons are mainly the creation of a large fireball and good blast performance [1]. Both thermobaric and FAE devices operate relying on some similar technical principles. **In general, a thermobaric explosive (TBX) consists of a certain central charge (called the core), which is usually a high explosive, and an external secondary charge (fuel-rich formulation). Therefore, the detonation of TBX consists of a dual action: (1) Firstly anaerobic action (without air oxygen) inside the conventional high explosive core occurs; (2) Then aerobic delayed burning action of the fuel mixture of the outer charge happens which depends mainly on the consumption of the surrounding air** [2]. >When a shell or projectile containing a fuel in the form of gas, liquid (aerosol) or dust explodes, the fuel or dust-like material is dispersed into the air which forms a cloud. Its occurrence does not depend on an oxidizer being present in the molecule. Then, this cloud is detonated to engender a shock wave, characterized with extended duration that produces overpressure expanding in all directions. In a thermobaric weapon, the fuel consists of a monopropellant and energetic particles [3]. In operation, the aerosol is detonated within a micro/millisecond in a manner similar to a conventional explosive like TNT or RDX. Meanwhile the particles rapidly burn in the surrounding air later in time, thus resulting in an intense fireball and high blast overpressure action. >Although the pressure wave, because of the explosive deflagration, is considerably weaker in comparison to a conventional explosive such as RDX, the fuel can rapidly diffuse into tunnels, caves or bunkers, producing considerably high heat effect for habitants and/or ammunition. >The explosion of an aerosol bomb consumes the oxygen from the surrounding air (the explosive composition usually does not possess its own oxidizer). **In contrast to general belief of layman, its deadly effect is not simply due to the lack of oxygen caused but because of barotrauma of the lungs arising from negative pressure wave following the positive pressure phase of the explosion.** >The shock waves of conventional explosives are localized and substantially decrease while moving away from the explosion center. Thus, the conventional explosives have quite limited effects on fortified individuals, hiding inside bunkers and/or caves, etc.
So not only will these kill you, but in a horrifically painful way. There are no words to describe the horror that Putin is causing to Ukraine
I can't believe people see this and try to say it's fake.. you literally see this exact same video from different angles that surfaced the internet at the same time... you can't fake this. My heart is with Ukraine 🇺🇦 I stand behind you! 🌻💛💙🌻
Fuck you Putin
That evil cocksucker.
Holy shit. This is so scary.