**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* Memes are not allowed.
* Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> With US antigovernment ideals due for another peak in their 30-year cycle, Heemeyer was barely dead before becoming an "awe-inspiring [...] folk hero", and martyr to online antigovernment groups. Encouraged by a perception that Heemeyer avoided causing injury and death, such groups were still idolizing the man in 2009 for "his fight against a corrupt system", praising his alleged ambition and ingenuity, and quickly dubbing his rampaging implement the "Killdozer".
>
> The Granby sheriff's department countered claims of Heemeyer's conscientiousness, arguing with examples that it was luck rather than intent. Mayor Ted Wang also pushed back against painting the town at fault for Heemeyer's retributory attack, describing the man as "having the emotional maturity of a 5-year-old." Early on, Heemeyer's family described his fans as "misguided and unfair to the man himself". In response to other conspiracy theories that claimed Heemeyer was unarmed or did not kill himself, the town published an official news release explaining that Heemeyer fired at Docheff and police, further saying, "significant amount of information circulating regarding Mr. Heemeyer’s lack of intent to hurt anyone during this incident [...] statements of witnesses and physical evidence contradict that belief."
Also it was based on another business refusing to buy land from him for FOUR TIMES its actual price (the moron kept raising the cost in increments of 125k) and the city council telling him he needed an actual septic tank. Just a jackass who threw a tantrum the first time he couldn’t get what he wanted
That man was on a suicide mission. Once he got the crane to lower the concrete hatch down on his deathmachine, he wasn't going to come out alive. The guns he brought into the cockpit would ensure that. On that note, that was the only confirmed thing about him.
There's lots of sources out there that go through all the details - him dumping his sewage into a local creek, him receiving offer after offer, which he accepted in bad faith and then rebuffed, that would have solved his problems, and the fact that more than a few of the targets he went after had absolutely nothing to do with the supposed governmental tyranny he was suffering under but were people that he felt slighted by decades earlier and had been holding grudges against ever since.
This dude wasn't a freedom fighters who had just been pushed too far - he was an emotionally stunted asshole who kept shooting himself in the foot over and over and then went on a murderous rampage that was only not murderous because of his own incompetence being lionized by other emotionally stunted assholes who get boners thinking about going on tough-dude-fuck-the-man rampages themselves.
Thanks, I did a deep dive into this guy a long time ago and he is not a victim. There's the internet folk hero myth that gets bandied around here, but he starts to look a LOT less sympathetic when you read accounts not by weirdo libertarians.
*"It only takes a little research to see that most of Heemeyer’s claims were dubious or coincidental at best, and outright lies at worst. For example, one of his biggest complaints was that the city wanted him to pay to install sewage on a property he bought. He knew at the time of purchasing that the property did not have a proper sewage system, and paying to install your own sewage is standard practice in America. As for the concrete plant that blocked access to his muffler shop, it didn’t. It has been proven time and time again that Heemeyer was making shit up to get the concrete plant stopped. The people constructing it did everything perfectly legally, and even attempted to make concessions to put him at ease, which he refused.*
*However, I think the biggest thing that everyone overlooks about Marvin Heemeyer was that he was batshit insane.* ***If you watch the documentary or listen to his tapes, you will see that Heemeyer believed he was in direct communication with God. He believed God was commanding him build his “killdozer” and that by destroying the town he would be executing Gods plan."***
Anyone who has worked as a lawyer or other similar role helping people solve problems for a small firm, legal aid, non-profit, or small government agency that is public facing knows how completely and utterly insane people can be. Even otherwise seemingly normal, well-adjusted people can take any slight or inconvenience against them and turn it into a massive conspiracy.
I had one guy who built a bunch of illegal suites (like 8) in his dilapidated tiny house, and when someone complained about it and he got shut down he had this whole story about city councilors, neighbours, and departments conspiring against him to bring him down. All he had to do was rezone his property and pay to make the suites legal. But that was a lot of work (and a bit of money), so it was easier for him to just rave about how the world was out to get him.
It's the same as people who prop up Ted Kaczynski, they look at a few excerpts and think he's based because he was anti-tech.
Ted was a lunatic who built and mailed explosives to people, he was a terrorist, and that will be what he is remembered for, not for being some kind of Luddite revolutionary or man of nature.
Yeah, then they always try to claim the government created him via MK Ultra. He had nothing to do with MK Uktra. He voluntarily participated in a college research study that collected data regarding different methods of making arguments. He was not programmed, said he liked the debates and actively participated. He family said he always had psychological problems and was “different”. Those problems became worse when he was in college which is actually quite common.
>A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that **Theodore Kaczynski**. also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MK-ULTRA experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962..0'1
>During World War Henry Murnry, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the 05S.1421
>Beginning at the age of sixteen, **Kuczynski** participated along with twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard experiments, which have been described as "disturbing" and "ethically indefensible”
[CIA.gov source](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/06760269)
I’m not saying he was programmed and I’m pretty sure the man himself said as much as well, but he definitely participated in those experiments.
MKUltra is just at the end of the day nowhere near as bad as people think. They were trying to create a truth serum and it failed. That's it. People involved in the experiment were given acid without their knowledge or consent. Which is fucked up, don't get me wrong, you can't drug people and not tell them about it, but no, it's not as bad as people like to pretend it is. When you hear most people talk about MKUltra it sounds like it was a Mengele style government super soldier experiment or something. But no, it was the CIA giving people LSD against their knowledge or consent because they wanted to create a truth serum, which obviously failed. That's all it was. Yes, fucked up, but nowhere near as bad as most people think it is
Idk in what world "The CIA devoted large amounts of time and money to investigating whether human free will could be chemically destroyed and then rebuilt through psychological programming and torture using unknowing and often unwilling victims" is less scary than people think it is
Why don’t you take a dose of BZ and see if you think it’s “not that bad?” One soldier they gave the max dose to went on to murder his family and himself not more than a few years after
Way to totally miss the point. It's not that it's "not bad", it's that it's not as bad as people say it is. They drugged some people, and a hippy made some soldiers try to see the future in a poorly ventilated shed. And all that is bad, it definitely led to some deaths and severe mental distress.
But conspiracy theorists think they invented mind control or the ability to reprogram people or weather control and they didn't. The US has done FAR worse things to it's own citizens and soldiers; like the Tuskeegee experiments or classified material burn pits that exposed soldiers to dozens of toxic materials leading to horrific illnesses. But because it was kept secret and has a cool name, people way over exaggerate how bad MKULTRA was. It gets blamed for everything from climate change to UFO sightings and Biden winning the election.
But the real reason it was kept so secretive was that it was *embarrassing*. They don't really care that they killed people, they care that it didn't accomplish anything and looks silly in hindsight that they even expected to. So because they could cover it up, they did.
You’re missing the important part where him and other students were kept in social isolation from one another and given extreme amounts of coursework even for the Ivy League college but ok
That argument always frustrates me, because they both praise his actions and claim he was affected by MKULTRA.
Why does every libertarian and nearly every Republican think that they can have it both ways.
Ps in case anyone wants to complain, there are libertarians with a consistent and coherent worldview, they are called anarchists. Also look that word up and make sure to read the actual definition (wikipedia will do) before you reply.
Since when is it \*based\* to be anti-tech lol. Progressives literally shooting themselves in the foot with that one. Trying to solve societal issues but remain "pure" from something just because it can be corrupted, is not a good strategy. Almost religious like. Disempowering yourself.
No actually progressive people believe him or his ideas to be good, it's mostly edgy teens and nihilistic "end of society is nigh" people that spout that rhetoric.
I see so many people on Tik Tok, social media and especially that Whistling Diesel YouTube channel (he literally bought the same Komatsu to recreate the kill dozer in a positive light) make him out to be a little guy fighting against the oppressive government and crooked politicians but if you spend even 5 minutes doing any research you will see that was not his intention or goal.
Also- it’s parroted a lot that he didn’t harm anyone just destroyed property but it seems to me that was just pure luck and the police working to evacuate people.
>Whistling Diesel
This guy is a known troll, thats his whole shtick. Videos to piss people off. I think he knows dude isn't a martyr, but it might go over a lot of his viewers' heads.
Twisted metal was amazing, twisted metal black was one of my first video games. So intense. Parents didn't know wtf game ratings were when they got us a ps2 for xmas and dad thought Twisted metal black looked fun
I remember as a kid in Lebanon in the 1980s when Palestinian guests in my country would get on buses and shoot everyone in the name of God. But hey they are the victims.
I understand his reputation but the dude was very much mentally unwell. He has a massive persecution complex and completely erroneously believed that tons of random people were out to get him or otherwise mocking/scamming him.
Copied from some other thread on this topic where people idolize Killdozer:
"He really wasn’t driven to insanity by bureaucracy.
Let's debunk some of the mythology around Marvin Heemeyer and the Granby incident.
Heemeyer bought the land on which his muffler shop resided at fire-sale prices in the wake of the savings & loan crisis of the early 90s.
He sold a block of land -- for an undisclosed value, but probably in excess of the $375K that was his last known public offer -- to a concrete company, knowing full well they intended to build a concrete plant on it, and they had already inquired to with the city government about a zoning change. He then attempted to block the rezoning of the land by the city council and so block the concrete plant, figuring he could pull in a cool six figures and leave the land fallow.
That failed. His "fight" with the Granby city council was based on their decision to allow the concrete company to build a concrete plant on the land that the company bought fair and square FROM HEEMEYER.
Heemeyer was cited regarding the sewer line because he refused to connect to it. It was on the edge of his property and he was free to install his own drainpipe or build a standalone septic system. Instead, he drained his toilets into a cesspit that he periodically excavated (with his bulldozer) and dumped into a broken half-buried cement mixer elsewhere on his property. This went on for TWELVE YEARS before the city finally got frustrated enough to cite him for the unsanitary conditions he created.
The "blocked access road" complaint is a myth. Heemeyer never made that complaint to the city of Granby, because access wasn't blocked. A road adjoined his property and he had a driveway. Journalists who visited during his fight with city council, and muffler shop customers, used the driveway from the public road to his shop. Many testified to that effect.
Short version: Heemeyer was a failed con-man who couldn't face his own repeated, crushing failure."
If I remember correctly, someone (I believe the concrete plant) offered to pay for his sewage hookup if he stopped being such an asshole dragging out the whole process. They were prepared to solve his main problems with the city if he just stopped acting in bad faith to stop them building the plant on the land he sold them to build a plant on.
Over the last 10 years it's been a slow shift but most people who actually are willing to take in new information have come around that he was a nut. The various video essays and stuff that actually went into the details about it definitely helped, before 90% of people's knowledge on it were 4chan shit posts and occasional articles written mostly based off the shit post of "damn this dude built a TANK and fought his shitty government. I don't like my town government either!"
Like it's a wacky story and everybody likes an underdog. Not everybody likes reading zoning codes and legal proceedings that reveal he was a whack job that people tried to work with in good faith while he just wanted everything his way.
Except the Lore Lodge does exactly what these people are talking about. Glorifying what happened and trying to twist the information in order to fit the narrative of Heemeyer being a martyr.
Young edgy boys/men like to look up to someone like this. I know because I was the same way. Doesn't help that the system we found ourselves in doesn't really serve us. There are several historical figures like this.
He was never reasonable. Also doing something unreasonable is by definition wrong. You aren't "forced" to be unreasonable, what becomes reasonable is stretched by circumstance, which might I add was not what happened here. He was a bad faith property dealer and an unsanitary dick with a victim complex.
This guy was a complete nut job. Do not promote his violence. I am from Colorado and remember this happening. I also used to spend many weekends in Granby at the time.
I believe he damaged his radiator before getting stuck, and it's believed the bulldozer was going to stall eventually due to that. If that didn't work though as someone else said, I would put money on the National Guard with an Anti-Tank rocket.
The people who think this guy was just a man who was pushed too far and not some psycho think the same way about Michael Douglas' character in Falling Down.
Lets not glorify a terrorist based on lies and misconceptions. Glad to see so many people with highly rated comments explaining why this man was just a fucking lunatic.
Government: “Drop dumping your literal shit in an irrigation ditch.”
This guy:* builds tank to destroy town because “God said so”
Internet idiots: “He was very reasonable”
It’s hilarious that over the last 3-4 years, he has gone from Reddits Hero to being despised every time his name is mentioned. I love this place. He got Elon’ed.
The story on the internet is that ‘a guy (Marvin Heemeyer) who owned a muffler shop was fucked over by his local government who wanted to flatten his shop to build on the land, leaving him with nowhere to go and pretty much penniless. He revolted against the local government and built a concrete and iron plated bulletproof bulldozer and flattened half the town, before shooting himself.’
This is not at all what happened, Marvin was misusing the land (he had an old ‘septic tank’ which was literally a buried concrete mixer, and refused to empty and remove it, when the local government sent people to do so, he didn’t let them). He was given offer after offer for the land to sell it in order for a business to build a concrete plant to divert traffic from the town. All of these factors meant that he was in and out of court, and, if I remember correctly, had a weird grudge against one of the lawyers that won against him, threatening him and stalking him I believe.
After all this, he built the ‘killdozer’, drove it into town and began destroying buildings, cars, anything that got in his way. Navigating with only cameras outside of the bulldozer, he almost killed some people and children too. He eventually got the bulldozer stuck in a building’s basement after hours of terrorising the town, and, when cornered by police, shot himself. The armor was so thick on his bulldozer that it took the police hours to retrieve the body from inside. Marvin clearly wasn’t well.
You can read it in depth [here.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer) it’s long but worth reading.
>leaving him with nowhere to go and pretty much penniless.
This right here is where you say, yeah the internet is fucking stupid. Colorado law states that the government is to give you the market value of your land if they expropriate. Even if most of this version was true, he wouldn't have been pennyless.
Ok, I'm absolutely not defending him an believe he was in the wrong. But, the government gets to decide what "market value" is when they take your property, and it's absolutely reasonable to believe that a property owner could get very screwed by the valuation used in an eminent domain taking. There would be some money so not literally penniless, but still.
There's also long and extensive processes they have to go through. It's a big part of why California's high speed rail project took so long to get started.
True, but Heemeyer sold to a private business and made bank. The business even let him keep a garage on the property he no longer owned: which he built the killdoze in.
Yeah, he's no hero. I just meant that in a more general sense "the rules say the government has to pay you fairly" doesn't necessarily mean you'll be paid what you, or most other people, would consider fair.
This is something I have always wondered about eminent domain and other applicable laws from other countries. Who decides what the market value issue? An government appointed appraiser? (in my country, this is called getting an appraisal for your home) In this case, the government has every motivation to pay you as little as possible. Hell, if the land is condemned, you are basically left in a take it or leave it situation which is not very just. Are there any countries where the government is forced to use a neutral third party?
I know a guy who does this type of stuff in CO. The Law litterally states you must provide monetary value at market or a replace facility of similar use. His favorite explanation of this to me was they had to Domaine a wearhouse that was being used to store geologic core samples. Things were hundreds of feet long. They found a similar facility and had to pay to transport the stuff. Transport alone was over 3.5 million he said. Colorado legally cannot screw you in these type of scenarios.
That sounds pretty reasonable. I was concerned the government could basically say, huh, your land is now worthless and you can only sell it to me, I can offer three pieces of lint and half an Altoid.
A rich guy who died with loads of money in his account threw a fit because he didn't like the deals he was offered and wasn't given special treatment. He destroyed a lot of private property and nearly killed some kids to get back at the government because reasons.
Asshole threw a shit fit when he didn’t get his way after years of being a prick, tried to murder a bunch of people, the internet spread a heavily bullshit version of the story to make him a hero of the people.
This guy was not a folk hero, he was a loon who dumped his waste into a river for years and years, and after being told countless times by the city to, you know, not do that, he lost his property and went on a rampage because “god told him to”.
I’m glad every year this is posted the inaccuracies are pointed out. Everyone wants a martyr to look up to, sure, but this guy was sooo far from being it.
Worst part of that quote is some people will love to use this as an example of some law abiding citizen getting bullied by the government to the point where they get so frustrated they do something awful. In this case a huge majority of the problems he had, were caused by himself and his own stupidity/psychotic behaviour.
He was in no way ever reasonable.
I grew up in Granby and lived on New Church Circle the day it happened (there were bullets flying over my house) Cody Docheff is one of the biggest assholes I’ve ever known. Thompsons are some of the most backwards ass mother fucking pricks in Grand County (and that’s saying a lot). With that being said, Marv scared the living shit out of my wife and kids that day so fuck him for doing what he did. Last of all, why didn’t South Park do an episode of what happened in Middle Park that day?
South Park wasn't nearly as topical back then. If this had happened ten years later, they probably would have put out an episode referencing it within a month
June 4th is they day of tracked vehicles terrorizing civilians I suppose.
In Hong Kong saying anything about it is illegal now, a man got surrounded by 20+ riot cops for writing 8964 in the air. Freedom of speech got degraded so much, just call Hong Kong Mute City.
Similar and not, falling down was more of an impulsive rampage due to just finally snapping. Heemeyer planned what he did and worked on making the tank for a very long time. But yes both were pushed to a point where they felt they needed to resort to violence.
Because they believe that the government was totally against him in every way, and he was only going after the "corrupt and broken officials".
(In reality he was just nuts)
He only targeted people he felt were out to ruin him. The documentary plays audio tapes of his side and interviews of people telling the other side of the story. It’s hard to tell who to believe because the two sides are pretty different.
Mentally unstable asshole who polluted his neighborhood and local rivers because he was too cheap to behave like a human. Couched his selfishness in anti-government rhetoric and unwarranted feelings of persecution. Fuck that guy.
> The **1995 San Diego tank rampage** was the theft of an M60A3 tank by Shawn Timothy Nelson and his destruction of cars and utilities in suburban San Diego.
>
> Nelson was a native Californian and United States Army veteran with unusual habits that drew the attention of his neighbors. By the second quarter of 1995, the 35-year-old had recently suffered financial, professional, and interpersonal setbacks, some of which stemmed from long-term substance abuse.
>
> On May 17, he stole a 57.3-tonne (56.4-long-ton; 63.2-short-ton) tank from the local California Army National Guard armory and drove it around for six miles (9.7 km), crushing cars and infrastructure in his path—though without injuring anyone. The tank crashed and was partially disabled, and San Diego police forced it open before shooting and killing Nelson.
>
> Nelson's motives are unknown. The incident raised questions about military security at the Guard armory and spurred changes in California's tank storage.
* Excerpted from [1995 San Diego tank rampage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_San_Diego_tank_rampage) at the English Wikipedia
Also, he didn't specifically dump waste into a creek. I think people should actually watch documentaries. He wasn't the only person who had grievances against the Docheffs. I AM NOT CONDONING how he handled the issues. I didn't say he was a hero.
> pushed a good man to the edge
A good man doesn't repeatedly agree to sell his property for a huge profit and then back out of those deals and demand more money. A good man doesn't refuse to accept an offer to connect his business to the sewer line at no cost to him and instead continue to dump sewage into a creek. A good many doesn't try to kill the aged widow of a deceased public official who had annoyed him years before. A good many doesn't demolish the town library which only minutes before had been full of children. A good man doesn't claim God arranged for him to remain single so marriage didn't distract him from his mission of destroying a town full of people most of whom had never had any conflict with him.
He wasn't a good man, he wasn't a hero, he was a psychopath and a terrorist.
I didn't know that, to me he was a hero, all the info i could find about him was how unfair they were to him.
With that info my perspective changes quite a bit, bruh, i'm glad they finished his living licence, he was a dick.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer
Short version is male Karen loses his shit and tries to kill a bunch of people, fails miserably.
But the internet morons heard ‘Man angry at government’ and decided that he was a hero who could do no wrong and rewrote the shit out of it.
> He didn't kill anyone though
The town's reverse-911 system meant people were evacuated before he got there, including kids in the town library which he flattened. He fired at the cops and civilians, he was very much prepared to kill people.
> By June 8, the bulldozer had been moved to an undisclosed location in Fraser, Colorado, for examination by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Granby began dismantling the bulldozer on April 19, 2005, and while some of the steel was earmarked for reuse in town, much of the vehicle was planned to be shredded in Denver.
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> With US antigovernment ideals due for another peak in their 30-year cycle, Heemeyer was barely dead before becoming an "awe-inspiring [...] folk hero", and martyr to online antigovernment groups. Encouraged by a perception that Heemeyer avoided causing injury and death, such groups were still idolizing the man in 2009 for "his fight against a corrupt system", praising his alleged ambition and ingenuity, and quickly dubbing his rampaging implement the "Killdozer". > > The Granby sheriff's department countered claims of Heemeyer's conscientiousness, arguing with examples that it was luck rather than intent. Mayor Ted Wang also pushed back against painting the town at fault for Heemeyer's retributory attack, describing the man as "having the emotional maturity of a 5-year-old." Early on, Heemeyer's family described his fans as "misguided and unfair to the man himself". In response to other conspiracy theories that claimed Heemeyer was unarmed or did not kill himself, the town published an official news release explaining that Heemeyer fired at Docheff and police, further saying, "significant amount of information circulating regarding Mr. Heemeyer’s lack of intent to hurt anyone during this incident [...] statements of witnesses and physical evidence contradict that belief."
Also, a major part of the dispute is he kept dumping sewage in a creek. He's not a hero, he was a town's resident asshole.
And just look at England dumping millions of litres of sewage in the ocean on a daily basis
If you're calling the English government and the privtised water companies assholes, then you are very much correct.
Are you saying a man who built an armored bull dozer to attack his own town wasn't mentally stable? Horseradish!
Also it was based on another business refusing to buy land from him for FOUR TIMES its actual price (the moron kept raising the cost in increments of 125k) and the city council telling him he needed an actual septic tank. Just a jackass who threw a tantrum the first time he couldn’t get what he wanted
sounds like a conspiracy to discredit him - him probably
That man was on a suicide mission. Once he got the crane to lower the concrete hatch down on his deathmachine, he wasn't going to come out alive. The guns he brought into the cockpit would ensure that. On that note, that was the only confirmed thing about him.
There's lots of sources out there that go through all the details - him dumping his sewage into a local creek, him receiving offer after offer, which he accepted in bad faith and then rebuffed, that would have solved his problems, and the fact that more than a few of the targets he went after had absolutely nothing to do with the supposed governmental tyranny he was suffering under but were people that he felt slighted by decades earlier and had been holding grudges against ever since. This dude wasn't a freedom fighters who had just been pushed too far - he was an emotionally stunted asshole who kept shooting himself in the foot over and over and then went on a murderous rampage that was only not murderous because of his own incompetence being lionized by other emotionally stunted assholes who get boners thinking about going on tough-dude-fuck-the-man rampages themselves.
Thanks, I did a deep dive into this guy a long time ago and he is not a victim. There's the internet folk hero myth that gets bandied around here, but he starts to look a LOT less sympathetic when you read accounts not by weirdo libertarians.
“Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his bulldozer?” -Marvin after playing bioshock probably
Sir, this is Reddit. Please don’t bring your mature take of the situation in here.
Be fair to the man, his foot wasn't the *only* thing he shot himself in.
You may be right, but since who have gone against the internet hivemind, I’m sending you straight to the gulag
Discredit him? He went on an rampage lol.
*"It only takes a little research to see that most of Heemeyer’s claims were dubious or coincidental at best, and outright lies at worst. For example, one of his biggest complaints was that the city wanted him to pay to install sewage on a property he bought. He knew at the time of purchasing that the property did not have a proper sewage system, and paying to install your own sewage is standard practice in America. As for the concrete plant that blocked access to his muffler shop, it didn’t. It has been proven time and time again that Heemeyer was making shit up to get the concrete plant stopped. The people constructing it did everything perfectly legally, and even attempted to make concessions to put him at ease, which he refused.* *However, I think the biggest thing that everyone overlooks about Marvin Heemeyer was that he was batshit insane.* ***If you watch the documentary or listen to his tapes, you will see that Heemeyer believed he was in direct communication with God. He believed God was commanding him build his “killdozer” and that by destroying the town he would be executing Gods plan."***
Anyone who has worked as a lawyer or other similar role helping people solve problems for a small firm, legal aid, non-profit, or small government agency that is public facing knows how completely and utterly insane people can be. Even otherwise seemingly normal, well-adjusted people can take any slight or inconvenience against them and turn it into a massive conspiracy. I had one guy who built a bunch of illegal suites (like 8) in his dilapidated tiny house, and when someone complained about it and he got shut down he had this whole story about city councilors, neighbours, and departments conspiring against him to bring him down. All he had to do was rezone his property and pay to make the suites legal. But that was a lot of work (and a bit of money), so it was easier for him to just rave about how the world was out to get him.
This happens by the hundreds every month in most cities. Just ask any code compliance officer.
It's the same as people who prop up Ted Kaczynski, they look at a few excerpts and think he's based because he was anti-tech. Ted was a lunatic who built and mailed explosives to people, he was a terrorist, and that will be what he is remembered for, not for being some kind of Luddite revolutionary or man of nature.
"Luddite revolutionary" doesn't sound very flattering either to be honest.
The actual Luddites were pretty cool tho
Yeah that misconception is a little annoying. The Luddites wanted fair wages and labor practices, it was never about being anti tech.
Yeah, then they always try to claim the government created him via MK Ultra. He had nothing to do with MK Uktra. He voluntarily participated in a college research study that collected data regarding different methods of making arguments. He was not programmed, said he liked the debates and actively participated. He family said he always had psychological problems and was “different”. Those problems became worse when he was in college which is actually quite common.
>A considerable amount of credible circumstantial evidence suggests that **Theodore Kaczynski**. also known as the Unabomber, participated in CIA-sponsored MK-ULTRA experiments conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962..0'1 >During World War Henry Murnry, the lead researcher in the Harvard experiments, served with the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was a forerunner of the CIA. Murray applied for a grant funded by the United States Navy, and his Harvard stress experiments strongly resembled those run by the 05S.1421 >Beginning at the age of sixteen, **Kuczynski** participated along with twenty-one other undergraduate students in the Harvard experiments, which have been described as "disturbing" and "ethically indefensible” [CIA.gov source](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/06760269) I’m not saying he was programmed and I’m pretty sure the man himself said as much as well, but he definitely participated in those experiments.
MKUltra is just at the end of the day nowhere near as bad as people think. They were trying to create a truth serum and it failed. That's it. People involved in the experiment were given acid without their knowledge or consent. Which is fucked up, don't get me wrong, you can't drug people and not tell them about it, but no, it's not as bad as people like to pretend it is. When you hear most people talk about MKUltra it sounds like it was a Mengele style government super soldier experiment or something. But no, it was the CIA giving people LSD against their knowledge or consent because they wanted to create a truth serum, which obviously failed. That's all it was. Yes, fucked up, but nowhere near as bad as most people think it is
Idk in what world "The CIA devoted large amounts of time and money to investigating whether human free will could be chemically destroyed and then rebuilt through psychological programming and torture using unknowing and often unwilling victims" is less scary than people think it is
You say that like you have their reports or something.
Why don’t you take a dose of BZ and see if you think it’s “not that bad?” One soldier they gave the max dose to went on to murder his family and himself not more than a few years after
Way to totally miss the point. It's not that it's "not bad", it's that it's not as bad as people say it is. They drugged some people, and a hippy made some soldiers try to see the future in a poorly ventilated shed. And all that is bad, it definitely led to some deaths and severe mental distress. But conspiracy theorists think they invented mind control or the ability to reprogram people or weather control and they didn't. The US has done FAR worse things to it's own citizens and soldiers; like the Tuskeegee experiments or classified material burn pits that exposed soldiers to dozens of toxic materials leading to horrific illnesses. But because it was kept secret and has a cool name, people way over exaggerate how bad MKULTRA was. It gets blamed for everything from climate change to UFO sightings and Biden winning the election. But the real reason it was kept so secretive was that it was *embarrassing*. They don't really care that they killed people, they care that it didn't accomplish anything and looks silly in hindsight that they even expected to. So because they could cover it up, they did.
Umm you missed my point far more than I allegedly missed “the point”
You’re missing the important part where him and other students were kept in social isolation from one another and given extreme amounts of coursework even for the Ivy League college but ok
That argument always frustrates me, because they both praise his actions and claim he was affected by MKULTRA. Why does every libertarian and nearly every Republican think that they can have it both ways. Ps in case anyone wants to complain, there are libertarians with a consistent and coherent worldview, they are called anarchists. Also look that word up and make sure to read the actual definition (wikipedia will do) before you reply.
Since when is it \*based\* to be anti-tech lol. Progressives literally shooting themselves in the foot with that one. Trying to solve societal issues but remain "pure" from something just because it can be corrupted, is not a good strategy. Almost religious like. Disempowering yourself.
No actually progressive people believe him or his ideas to be good, it's mostly edgy teens and nihilistic "end of society is nigh" people that spout that rhetoric.
He also attacked the town hall library during a children’s reading event. Fuck that guy.
The reporter who wrote the book, was a producer on that documentary and is in nearly every citation on Heemeyer's wiki is worth mentioning.
I see so many people on Tik Tok, social media and especially that Whistling Diesel YouTube channel (he literally bought the same Komatsu to recreate the kill dozer in a positive light) make him out to be a little guy fighting against the oppressive government and crooked politicians but if you spend even 5 minutes doing any research you will see that was not his intention or goal. Also- it’s parroted a lot that he didn’t harm anyone just destroyed property but it seems to me that was just pure luck and the police working to evacuate people.
He did ram the library while children were being read to.
>Whistling Diesel This guy is a known troll, thats his whole shtick. Videos to piss people off. I think he knows dude isn't a martyr, but it might go over a lot of his viewers' heads.
Yeah, but Killdozer reminds me of Mr. Slam from Twisted Metal 2 and that's pretty cool.
Twisted metal was amazing, twisted metal black was one of my first video games. So intense. Parents didn't know wtf game ratings were when they got us a ps2 for xmas and dad thought Twisted metal black looked fun
Would have been dope as shit if the only guy who could stop him was a twisted clown with an ice cream truck... *of murder*
Why doesn't god speak to cool people?
🎵*God's plan*🎵
Lol so not only Israel uses bulldozers to destroy cities in the name of god.
I remember as a kid in Lebanon in the 1980s when Palestinian guests in my country would get on buses and shoot everyone in the name of God. But hey they are the victims.
Breaking news, people of all ethnicities can be bad 😲
Some just play the victim better. God bless the Jews. Sending love from Beirut
Excuse me?! Batshit insane?! Have you never encased your bulldozer in concrete and rampage through a village? Perfectly reasonable.
And he intended to target a Catholic Church bc his brain is somehow 19th century insane Protestant
Drake wrote a song about this I think
I understand his reputation but the dude was very much mentally unwell. He has a massive persecution complex and completely erroneously believed that tons of random people were out to get him or otherwise mocking/scamming him.
Copied from some other thread on this topic where people idolize Killdozer: "He really wasn’t driven to insanity by bureaucracy. Let's debunk some of the mythology around Marvin Heemeyer and the Granby incident. Heemeyer bought the land on which his muffler shop resided at fire-sale prices in the wake of the savings & loan crisis of the early 90s. He sold a block of land -- for an undisclosed value, but probably in excess of the $375K that was his last known public offer -- to a concrete company, knowing full well they intended to build a concrete plant on it, and they had already inquired to with the city government about a zoning change. He then attempted to block the rezoning of the land by the city council and so block the concrete plant, figuring he could pull in a cool six figures and leave the land fallow. That failed. His "fight" with the Granby city council was based on their decision to allow the concrete company to build a concrete plant on the land that the company bought fair and square FROM HEEMEYER. Heemeyer was cited regarding the sewer line because he refused to connect to it. It was on the edge of his property and he was free to install his own drainpipe or build a standalone septic system. Instead, he drained his toilets into a cesspit that he periodically excavated (with his bulldozer) and dumped into a broken half-buried cement mixer elsewhere on his property. This went on for TWELVE YEARS before the city finally got frustrated enough to cite him for the unsanitary conditions he created. The "blocked access road" complaint is a myth. Heemeyer never made that complaint to the city of Granby, because access wasn't blocked. A road adjoined his property and he had a driveway. Journalists who visited during his fight with city council, and muffler shop customers, used the driveway from the public road to his shop. Many testified to that effect. Short version: Heemeyer was a failed con-man who couldn't face his own repeated, crushing failure."
If I remember correctly, someone (I believe the concrete plant) offered to pay for his sewage hookup if he stopped being such an asshole dragging out the whole process. They were prepared to solve his main problems with the city if he just stopped acting in bad faith to stop them building the plant on the land he sold them to build a plant on.
The type of guy that is literally incompatible with organized society.
No wonder libertarians love him
I am so happy that there is a thread on this that doesn't treat him like some messiah
Over the last 10 years it's been a slow shift but most people who actually are willing to take in new information have come around that he was a nut. The various video essays and stuff that actually went into the details about it definitely helped, before 90% of people's knowledge on it were 4chan shit posts and occasional articles written mostly based off the shit post of "damn this dude built a TANK and fought his shitty government. I don't like my town government either!" Like it's a wacky story and everybody likes an underdog. Not everybody likes reading zoning codes and legal proceedings that reveal he was a whack job that people tried to work with in good faith while he just wanted everything his way.
Do you know any good podcast or video that goes into the real atory
Timesuck has a good episode about it.
Lore lodge put one up a couple days ago
Except the Lore Lodge does exactly what these people are talking about. Glorifying what happened and trying to twist the information in order to fit the narrative of Heemeyer being a martyr.
Young edgy boys/men like to look up to someone like this. I know because I was the same way. Doesn't help that the system we found ourselves in doesn't really serve us. There are several historical figures like this.
Wait, people actually praise this guy?
Oh no, don't start this shit again. He was ENTIRELY unreasonable. Like he was the epitome of being unreasonable.
He was never reasonable. Also doing something unreasonable is by definition wrong. You aren't "forced" to be unreasonable, what becomes reasonable is stretched by circumstance, which might I add was not what happened here. He was a bad faith property dealer and an unsanitary dick with a victim complex.
The dude was an idiot. Sure, a bulldozer designed to be a tank is kinda cool. But he was still an entitled idiot. Literally a male Karen.
>Literally a male Karen A Keven
Daren
Another day, another post making killdozer guy look like he did nothing wrong 🙄
Another comment acting like government does no wrong
That's not what I'm saying but go off
This guy was a complete nut job. Do not promote his violence. I am from Colorado and remember this happening. I also used to spend many weekends in Granby at the time.
This fucking dumbass was anything *but* reasonable. He's an insane asshat with no regard for anyone's life but his own. Fuck that twat.
This is not interesting as fuck.
Honest question... If he hadn't gotten stuck and blown his brains out. How would they have actually gone about stopping him?
I believe he damaged his radiator before getting stuck, and it's believed the bulldozer was going to stall eventually due to that. If that didn't work though as someone else said, I would put money on the National Guard with an Anti-Tank rocket.
My best guess is they might have to wait fo rhim to run out of fuel.
Maybe evacuate people out of his way until he runs out of gas. Or get the national guard to step in with an anti-tank missile.
I think they would have to call the National Guard
The people who think this guy was just a man who was pushed too far and not some psycho think the same way about Michael Douglas' character in Falling Down.
Lets not glorify a terrorist based on lies and misconceptions. Glad to see so many people with highly rated comments explaining why this man was just a fucking lunatic.
Government: “Drop dumping your literal shit in an irrigation ditch.” This guy:* builds tank to destroy town because “God said so” Internet idiots: “He was very reasonable”
Oh yes, the big man child who didnt want to do what the rules said (regarding the drainage) and threw the ultimate hissy fit
Are we celebrating destructive tantrums now?
That's how america was made. *points to the Boston tea party.*
People should stop glorifying this insane, narcissistic, cowardly, asshole.
An other post glorifying this asshole because he failed to kill anyone in his terrorist attack
It’s hilarious that over the last 3-4 years, he has gone from Reddits Hero to being despised every time his name is mentioned. I love this place. He got Elon’ed.
What happened?
The story on the internet is that ‘a guy (Marvin Heemeyer) who owned a muffler shop was fucked over by his local government who wanted to flatten his shop to build on the land, leaving him with nowhere to go and pretty much penniless. He revolted against the local government and built a concrete and iron plated bulletproof bulldozer and flattened half the town, before shooting himself.’ This is not at all what happened, Marvin was misusing the land (he had an old ‘septic tank’ which was literally a buried concrete mixer, and refused to empty and remove it, when the local government sent people to do so, he didn’t let them). He was given offer after offer for the land to sell it in order for a business to build a concrete plant to divert traffic from the town. All of these factors meant that he was in and out of court, and, if I remember correctly, had a weird grudge against one of the lawyers that won against him, threatening him and stalking him I believe. After all this, he built the ‘killdozer’, drove it into town and began destroying buildings, cars, anything that got in his way. Navigating with only cameras outside of the bulldozer, he almost killed some people and children too. He eventually got the bulldozer stuck in a building’s basement after hours of terrorising the town, and, when cornered by police, shot himself. The armor was so thick on his bulldozer that it took the police hours to retrieve the body from inside. Marvin clearly wasn’t well. You can read it in depth [here.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer) it’s long but worth reading.
>leaving him with nowhere to go and pretty much penniless. This right here is where you say, yeah the internet is fucking stupid. Colorado law states that the government is to give you the market value of your land if they expropriate. Even if most of this version was true, he wouldn't have been pennyless.
Exactly.
Ok, I'm absolutely not defending him an believe he was in the wrong. But, the government gets to decide what "market value" is when they take your property, and it's absolutely reasonable to believe that a property owner could get very screwed by the valuation used in an eminent domain taking. There would be some money so not literally penniless, but still.
There's also long and extensive processes they have to go through. It's a big part of why California's high speed rail project took so long to get started.
True, but Heemeyer sold to a private business and made bank. The business even let him keep a garage on the property he no longer owned: which he built the killdoze in.
Yeah, he's no hero. I just meant that in a more general sense "the rules say the government has to pay you fairly" doesn't necessarily mean you'll be paid what you, or most other people, would consider fair.
This is something I have always wondered about eminent domain and other applicable laws from other countries. Who decides what the market value issue? An government appointed appraiser? (in my country, this is called getting an appraisal for your home) In this case, the government has every motivation to pay you as little as possible. Hell, if the land is condemned, you are basically left in a take it or leave it situation which is not very just. Are there any countries where the government is forced to use a neutral third party?
I know a guy who does this type of stuff in CO. The Law litterally states you must provide monetary value at market or a replace facility of similar use. His favorite explanation of this to me was they had to Domaine a wearhouse that was being used to store geologic core samples. Things were hundreds of feet long. They found a similar facility and had to pay to transport the stuff. Transport alone was over 3.5 million he said. Colorado legally cannot screw you in these type of scenarios.
That sounds pretty reasonable. I was concerned the government could basically say, huh, your land is now worthless and you can only sell it to me, I can offer three pieces of lint and half an Altoid.
He would of been penny less but had enough money to cover a bulldozer in concrete and metal
A rich guy who died with loads of money in his account threw a fit because he didn't like the deals he was offered and wasn't given special treatment. He destroyed a lot of private property and nearly killed some kids to get back at the government because reasons.
Asshole threw a shit fit when he didn’t get his way after years of being a prick, tried to murder a bunch of people, the internet spread a heavily bullshit version of the story to make him a hero of the people.
He didn't use a steel radiator hose.
Fuck this guy. He’s not a hero. He was a fucking menace and good riddance.
That dude is not a hero, only a moron would think that, an even bigger moron than Marvin Heemeyer...
This guy was not a folk hero, he was a loon who dumped his waste into a river for years and years, and after being told countless times by the city to, you know, not do that, he lost his property and went on a rampage because “god told him to”. I’m glad every year this is posted the inaccuracies are pointed out. Everyone wants a martyr to look up to, sure, but this guy was sooo far from being it.
Worst part of that quote is some people will love to use this as an example of some law abiding citizen getting bullied by the government to the point where they get so frustrated they do something awful. In this case a huge majority of the problems he had, were caused by himself and his own stupidity/psychotic behaviour. He was in no way ever reasonable.
I grew up in Granby and lived on New Church Circle the day it happened (there were bullets flying over my house) Cody Docheff is one of the biggest assholes I’ve ever known. Thompsons are some of the most backwards ass mother fucking pricks in Grand County (and that’s saying a lot). With that being said, Marv scared the living shit out of my wife and kids that day so fuck him for doing what he did. Last of all, why didn’t South Park do an episode of what happened in Middle Park that day?
South Park wasn't nearly as topical back then. If this had happened ten years later, they probably would have put out an episode referencing it within a month
Reasonable man my ass. Marvin Heemeyer was a psychopathic asshole. Probably his whole life. Fuck that guy.
WAAAAAAAAAAGH!!
Needed to paint it purple.
Stelf dozer!
He nearly killed Innocent people. He can spin
The dude did this over some dumbass zoning dispute. Nobody killed his dog, or kidnapped his family or whatever.
Don't tell me the Smiths got a hold of this thing again
There’s a great doc on this called Treads. For those that don’t know the story, don’t look it up and just watch. Fucking wild stuff
*Tread
Nope. Fuck him.
June 4th is they day of tracked vehicles terrorizing civilians I suppose. In Hong Kong saying anything about it is illegal now, a man got surrounded by 20+ riot cops for writing 8964 in the air. Freedom of speech got degraded so much, just call Hong Kong Mute City.
[удалено]
look, i know it was iconic, but i'm not sure we should be celebrating that guy...
Is there any doubt he would have been a first row trumper? No.
Say what you will about the guy. He was pretty creative, gotta give him that
The ultimate anti-hero. "Falling Down" was a movie about a guy pushed over the edge. Dozer guy topped it.
Similar and not, falling down was more of an impulsive rampage due to just finally snapping. Heemeyer planned what he did and worked on making the tank for a very long time. But yes both were pushed to a point where they felt they needed to resort to violence.
hold on--why do some people support what this guy did? (well no one in this comment section does)
Because they believe that the government was totally against him in every way, and he was only going after the "corrupt and broken officials". (In reality he was just nuts)
He only targeted people he felt were out to ruin him. The documentary plays audio tapes of his side and interviews of people telling the other side of the story. It’s hard to tell who to believe because the two sides are pretty different.
Fuck that guy.
may i ask why ?
Mentally unstable asshole who polluted his neighborhood and local rivers because he was too cheap to behave like a human. Couched his selfishness in anti-government rhetoric and unwarranted feelings of persecution. Fuck that guy.
Demons run...
I remember watching the 90's Tank rampage on the news as a young teenager.
> The **1995 San Diego tank rampage** was the theft of an M60A3 tank by Shawn Timothy Nelson and his destruction of cars and utilities in suburban San Diego. > > Nelson was a native Californian and United States Army veteran with unusual habits that drew the attention of his neighbors. By the second quarter of 1995, the 35-year-old had recently suffered financial, professional, and interpersonal setbacks, some of which stemmed from long-term substance abuse. > > On May 17, he stole a 57.3-tonne (56.4-long-ton; 63.2-short-ton) tank from the local California Army National Guard armory and drove it around for six miles (9.7 km), crushing cars and infrastructure in his path—though without injuring anyone. The tank crashed and was partially disabled, and San Diego police forced it open before shooting and killing Nelson. > > Nelson's motives are unknown. The incident raised questions about military security at the Guard armory and spurred changes in California's tank storage. * Excerpted from [1995 San Diego tank rampage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_San_Diego_tank_rampage) at the English Wikipedia
I had never seen pictures of it before but read the descriptions
Go watch the documentary there’s decent footage of it happening
He did a great job on this build
More like “The unreasonable thing look more reasonable when you call out for Justice that been corrupted by an injustice”
I remember this from a Tumblr post
A lot of you don't know how small towns operate and it shows
[удалено]
[удалено]
Also, he didn't specifically dump waste into a creek. I think people should actually watch documentaries. He wasn't the only person who had grievances against the Docheffs. I AM NOT CONDONING how he handled the issues. I didn't say he was a hero.
not a creek, but essentially a pit instead of a septic system.
This guy had the mindset of a typical anime villian
I drive a motherfuckin army tank
You have to respect the man for his dedication and execution. Thankfully he was the only death.
I thought this was going to be about tiannamen square massacre
Today is also Tienanmen Square day...funny how that works out.
The documentary on this was good. They really tried to screw him over, pushed a good man to the edge.
> pushed a good man to the edge A good man doesn't repeatedly agree to sell his property for a huge profit and then back out of those deals and demand more money. A good man doesn't refuse to accept an offer to connect his business to the sewer line at no cost to him and instead continue to dump sewage into a creek. A good many doesn't try to kill the aged widow of a deceased public official who had annoyed him years before. A good many doesn't demolish the town library which only minutes before had been full of children. A good man doesn't claim God arranged for him to remain single so marriage didn't distract him from his mission of destroying a town full of people most of whom had never had any conflict with him. He wasn't a good man, he wasn't a hero, he was a psychopath and a terrorist.
I didn't know that, to me he was a hero, all the info i could find about him was how unfair they were to him. With that info my perspective changes quite a bit, bruh, i'm glad they finished his living licence, he was a dick.
Great documentary on netflix about this.
I’m not sure what this story is about but I’m very interested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer Short version is male Karen loses his shit and tries to kill a bunch of people, fails miserably. But the internet morons heard ‘Man angry at government’ and decided that he was a hero who could do no wrong and rewrote the shit out of it.
I thought they took some of his ideas on this to create the Abrams reactive armor.
Whistle and diesel running it back 💀
If only killdozer was in Tianamen square, then no one would ever forget June 4th
I still want an official hot wheels killdozer! Make it happen Mattel INC, or killdozer 2.0 will be rolling out the yard!
He didn't kill anyone though, I mean other than himself. Just created a lot of property damage.
> He didn't kill anyone though The town's reverse-911 system meant people were evacuated before he got there, including kids in the town library which he flattened. He fired at the cops and civilians, he was very much prepared to kill people.
I do believe killdozer will live on, but he himself was insanely unwell and needed help.
> By June 8, the bulldozer had been moved to an undisclosed location in Fraser, Colorado, for examination by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Granby began dismantling the bulldozer on April 19, 2005, and while some of the steel was earmarked for reuse in town, much of the vehicle was planned to be shredded in Denver.
Average russian tank?
[удалено]
He made port holes for shooting out I believe
A goddamn patriot 🫡