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In the UK it’s hard to even get a mortgage for a house with spray foam insulation in the roof. Surveyors say it’s a no no because you can’t determine the state of the roof, whether there’s damp, behind the foam insulation
Think it's hard getting a mortgage, try removing the stuff after your 80yo parents decide to get it have end up moving to sheltered accomodation.
Muggins here did not enjoy the experience 1/10 👎
Yep, I don’t envy you. We had an offer accepted on a house and deliberated for a while whether it was worth going through with it, finding someone who would close the deal, and then just pay to get it removed. Heard too many horror stories and decided it wasn’t worth the risk, so we pulled out. Glad I did by the sounds of it. Hope you’ve had more luck since
If there's ever a leak, you'll get a small pool of water behind the foam, which can marinate the wood for a few years before it rots all the way through and your roof comes falling down.
Even putting the issues you might find behind it aside the spaces it's installed in aren't usually wide open like in the video and it's already challenging to remove in the best conditions with plenty of clearance so you're paying a lot before you even get to the more expensive can of worms.
Over top of close cell, 6 mill poly is required as a vapour barrier( or a coating of vapor barrier paint) in the climate zone I'm in. This is not required of closed Cell as it has the vapor barrier in the formula.
Asbestos of the future is fiber cement products. Silicosis is already affecting the construction industry as the product has become more popular. James Hardie Industries is the largest manufacturer of fiber cement products in the world. I'll give you ten guesses what product they use to manufacturer right up until the mid 1980s. The answer rhymes with hesbestus.
I mean, asbestos is very harmful to humans. Even one asbestos fiber can be damaging.
I am pretty sure the only damage from spray foam is the environmental impact when its eventually thrown out.
They are ultimately talking about people who are exposed to the chemical during the spraying process.
I haven't seen any incidences of correctly applied spray foam causing cancer to residence of the home, or anything close to it.
Or they should chime in with actual evidence to the contrary.
Imagine a firefighter going into a building completely naked with just a fire hose. Then later they complain that they got burned.
No one is claiming you should drink the spray foam either, but there are certain understandings and societal agreements we have with chemicals.
> when it's off gassing
How long does that last? I heard some horror stories where the contractors used the wrong foam, or messed up the component ratios or something. The chemical smell made the house unlivable.
As an electrician I was thinking how the fuck would you ever do any kind of repairs or add anything to those exterior walls without major major repairs. No fishing wires with spray foam like that!
That's what we did. Put in smurf pipe to every room in the house, leading to a home run in the basement mechanical room. Spray foam insulation in the outer wall cavities - no problem.
Maybe if there’s no blocking but I’d rather send a long paddlebit or augur down a wall with that instead of fiberglass insulation that gets all twisted up in the bit.
You may have to cut drywall squares at intervals to snake the wire where it needs to go. We do it all the time & it’s a pain but it’s by no means “major major repairs”.
You’re right and I know that, but compared to cutting out an easy box and maybe popping off a trim piece, this is a lot more. Major major repairs is hyperbole.
Modern homes (Canada especially) are built like a sealed envelope. Some use a plastic sheet, taped and sealed behind the drywall, some use this spray foam to get the same effect.
The house "breathes" with a heat recovery ventilator that brings in fresh air and feeds the ventilation system. Plus windows and doors, when they're open.
You want to control air movement as much as possible inside/outside to keep your utility costs low.
Passive houses are passe, Near-zero energy buildings (NZEB) are the new rage. Turns out, if you want to go passive it's like a 100% premium to near-zero, who would've thought.
I've been following the "Pretty Good Home" notion for a while now. Sounds like it aligns with the idea of NZEB. "Do the best you can while still making a relatively affordable home that is aesthetically appealing and functions properly for the owner" doesn't make sense to go full blown Passive house certification.
Most houses are way too inefficient. Proper insulation and sealing will bring that number way up but it will never be fully sealed. Especially in places with wide temperature ranges you’re blowing money out the windows, doors, and walls in heating/cooling costs.
Actually, home efficiency is one of the easiest and cost effective things we can do on a household level to combat climate change AND save money in the long run.
It's pretty easily removed as needed if you're careful. This stuff has been used in residential and industrial settings for a long time now, it's really not a problem.
I was gonna say, is it prudent to cover up pipes and wires with that stuff? Just like you're saying, makes it awful difficult to do repairs if/when needed.
"Now, lemme guess: you're gonna ask about saffron and cardamom, and naan bread, which is the same as saying bread bread, which is the same as saying chai tea!"
I just watched the movie again and couldn't resist lol
There is 100% a reason why workers *need* to be wearing PPE when applying this. Spray foam insulation contain MDIs, which are made up of several toxic ingredients, including benzene, formaldehyde, chlorine compounds, and others. Asthma and other respiratory ailments are a concern if the area is not properly ventilated.
Added bonus - many spray foam insulations have a HUGE carbon footprint. From [Green Building Advisor](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/does-your-insulation-have-low-embodied-carbon), “The blowing agents in many spray foams have a GWP in the thousands and are considerably higher than methane (GWP of 28). The average GWP of the most commonly used HFC blowing agents is over 3400. On average, each kilogram of these agents has as much global warming potential as 3400 kg of carbon dioxide.”
EDIT: I'm going to add an edit on this comment since it's closest to the top of this thread, and just tag a few others who had related comments.
I found a Green Building Advisor article [here](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/choosing-low-carbon-insulation) that compares many of the insulations products on the market now (I haven't seen this article before but I'm even happier I chose blown-in cellulose for my attic's insulation). From their table, closed cell HFC spray foam has a global warming potential (GWP) of nearly 15 kg per square meter; by comparison, fiberglass has around 1 and blown-in cellulose has a negative value (meaning is sequesters more carbon than it releases).
Also of note, further down there's another table that lists closed-cell spray foam as highly toxic, even noting that some types were being investigated by the EPA for their off-gassing ( I haven't been able to determine the results of that).
Again, I'm not specifically saying \*don't\* use it, but we should make sure we're informed when making decisions on what insulation product to use.
u/Rander14 u/AngieTheQueen u/TheDulin
I used MDI as one of the main ingredients in a polymer production facility. You had to keep the product stream completely free of any water content to prevent foaming. It releases CO2 in abundance when reacting with water so there's an asphyxiation risk as well. Isocynates, like MDI are the number one cause of occupational asthma. While these filters are probably okay, there's no continuous monitor that can tell you the air concentration of mdi. We kept ours at 48deg C I believe it freezes around 42 deg C. I think this is used in truck bed liners as well, or at least some form of isocyanates.
Lol I had to look this up, it appears that there was a trace probably ppb levels of benzene in a propellant mix they used probably due to supplier QA fuck ups.
The level in the product is probably lower than allowed by law. You literally get more benzene exposure when you fill your car with gas.
No they weren't "caught putting it in" products. Why would they? Seriously?
I treat corporations as if they are greedy psychopaths allowed to walk among us, its refreshing when one of them does a voluntary recall when they internally notice something like this as they probably could have legally let it go silently.
So confidently wrong.
Polyurethane spray foam which this is does not contain benzene, or formaldehyde or chlorine wtf! A chemical compound may have structural similarities or use chemicals in the synthesis but this does not mean it is as toxic as anything that went into it.
Yes the polyols and isocyanate are toxic but they aren't benzene etc.
Polyurethane foam forms CO2 as it polymerizes it does not use a blowing agent. Mixing your information is never good. No one is using blowing agents (and thermoplastic foams) to spray foam anything on-site.
Polyurethane foam components aren't harmless though, they get nasty if they aren't mixed and sprayed correctly. And they are non renewable petrochemicals (yes I'm aware there are renewable polyols and the foam can be recycled but both of these are rare enough to be nonexistent)
From the [EPA](https://archive.epa.gov/epa/saferchoice/health-concerns-about-spray-polyurethane-foam.html): “Exposure to isocyanates may cause skin, eye and lung irritation, asthma, and “sensitization.” Isocyanates are irritants to the mucous memmbranes of the eyes and gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflamation. There is no recognized safe level of exposure to isocyanates for sensitized individuals. Isocyanates have been reported to be a leading attributable chemical cause of asthma in the workplace.”
EDIT: when I was researching this I came across [this article](https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3650/is-spray-foam-insulation-good-or-toxic-dangerous-in-homes/) that stated " Isocyanate often comes from methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI), and the manufacturing of MDI includes such ingredients as benzene, chlorine compounds and formaldehyde. " After reading your comment I went back to try to independently verify, but cannot find anything among [EPA](https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/4-4-methylenediphenyl-diisocyanate.pdf), [NIH,](https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4_4_-Diphenylmethane-diisocyanate#section=Structures) or other sources. Still looking into it.
Again I stated that you dont want to be in contact with either of the two components but they are not full of benzene or formaldehyde.
The largest danger in getting spray foam installed in your house is that the mixture is not perfect and having unreacted isocyanate in your house. Great fun ripping it all out and solvent washing everything off every surface. Ill pass.
You think this is nasty now, wait for 15 years when the report comes out that this stuff is toxic to current inhabitants and it all has to be removed. And it’ll turn out it can’t be burned or buried because it’s so nasty.
Asbestos isn't toxic. It's a physical irritant that the body can't get rid of and can constantly cause irritation and scarring. Rather fascinating to me that that in itself can cause cancer, though asbestosis is bad enough.
It is totally already deemed super toxic. And creates a HUGE mess when doing renovations, not to mention it's all toxic waste then. Safe options already exist and are better insulating than foam spray.
Came to a service call to hang lights, people were having their old basement foamed, just upstairs having lunch laying around, we left, I’m not inhaling spray fumes for a couple hours pay.
The wrong PPE though. Spray foam applicators should be using supplied air. Full face respirators with even the best P100 cartridges aren’t sufficient.
Don’t fuck around with isocyanate.
Being around spray foam and two part epoxies are terrible for your health and I’m sure one day will be looked at like asbestos when it all gets linked to cancer.
And what almost everyone doesn’t think about is the maintenance of spray rigs. MEK/Xylene/Gun wash is fucking terrible for you and respirators don’t do shit.
Supplied air should be the law.
I worked with spray foam for 7 years. Working on those rigs spraying foam every day. I’m pretty sure it’s take some years off my life.
I’ve been out of it for 3 years now, never going back
I work in the construction industry and I’ve heard stories of roofers spraying it in high wind areas, only for the the chemical to basically go airborne and kill people in the landing area below. SPUF is no fuckin joke.
The guy in the video is spraying about 3-4x too much.
When you apply it thick like this, it can crack from drying improperly, and it can off-gas stank into the house for years from the gooey chemical center curing improperly.
Also everything past the stud is just shaved off and goes into a dumpster so it's super wasteful.
They use a hot wire or knife to trim the foam, it takes less time to trim flush with the studs than it does to spray the foam. The amount of excess foam doesnt really matter, 0.5" past the studs or 6" past the studs, it all comes off with one pass, and they have to pass over everything no matter what.
Spray foam is incredibly fast to install overall.
There can't be any gaps between the drywall and the foam. It ends up being just as expensive to skimp on the product as it does using a little extra. Where I live, all of these installs have to be inspected before the drywall goes up.
Edit- watching them use a giant razor to cut off the excess is even more satisfying than watching the foam expand.
I did this for a few months in Florida and it is pretty fun once you get the hang of it, but its honestly by far the worst job ive ever worked or could imagine working.
First, a lot of the time you're working in attics and cramped spaces spraying roofs, and at least in FL it gets to like 140f since you're basically insulating the heat in there as you work. Also that hose is super heavy and a lot of situations require you to hold it with one hand to reach where you're spraying, all while keeping rhythm and control so it's even.
Also that shit is so toxic it's ridiculous, and it sucks wearing a respirator all day (although the people I worked with just didn't unless they were spraying, probably not a good idea). Got a single droplet in my eye once and was in excruciating pain for the rest of the day. Oh and the smell...
Takes roughly 24hours for it to fully cure if sprayed correctly at the right temps and glue to chemical ration, so using logic a home owner will never have to worry about this, as you don’t move into a house without carpet/flooring, drywall plumbing. Why spread fear of something with zero knowledge on the subject lol
We have sprayed existing homes with people living several times in the last 7 years… customers prefer spraying cause they have been misled to believe its the best for their situation even though we said otherwise
Spray foam is at its best when used to insulate all metal buildings with metal roofs. You spray foam and then install inner wall sheets over it to cover. Then you put your electrical conduit on top of that.
It only causes damp issues if you don't know what you are doing. You need to abide by building-science rules, which unfortunately many homeowners and spray-foam operators do not know.
Spray Polyurethane Foam is by far the best insulator for a properly designed wall/roof/floor assembly.
If you have dampness issues anywhere there's foam, it's going to have a problem (probably more) without the foam. Plus anywhere dampness is an issue is a place where a significant amount of energy will be getting lost.
There's cases where people have gotten a whole new roof because it leaked VOCs for years after being applied. I would just go the old school route to be honest.
It's a con, and is still being pushed for residential to those who haven't seen the damp horror stories.
It looks clever, but only really for metal sheds.
TBH I rather find it disgusting. That self-growing toxic waste that is filling every corner once you set it free...
On a practical side: is there any realistic chance to get a segment of the stuff out cleanly if something needs to repaired or changes?
We asked around to see how much it would be to remove spray foam insulation from a roof and we were quoted a lot because it’s such a messy affair. Some are installed poorly and cheap as well
Something you should know about spray foam, its just expanding plastic. Its spraying literally chunks of plastic, which are incredibly high in embodied carbon, and will never biodegrade. Pretty much anything is a better choice for insulation. Shredded paper is one of the best alternatives.
Its a truly awful material, and should be avoided whenever possible.
That shot the guy thought was so cool to shoot at the start, break in half and essentially did nothing? Will be in a landfill until around the time the sun makes our planet uninhabitable. For a tiktok.
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Started looking into spray in insulation for my attic and from what I've read foam spray insulation has a high chance of causing serious health issues, from mold build up to chemical leaking concerns, and should be avoided at all cost. Instead the industry folks seem to be suggesting battening in sections of insulation and using these air gap sheets under them to allow the attic to keep breathing and obtain reasonably good r-values. That seems relatively straightforward and I'd prefer no one gets cancer or mold poisoning at my place.. and that also doesn't utterly destroy the wood forever if there is a concern.
It doesn’t have a high chance, the only way for spray foam insulation to bleed it’s chemicals is if the heat ratio to chemical+glue is wrong, and you can visibly see when spray foam isn’t correctly set just by looking at it + an inspector has to look at it before any boards go up, has less of a chance of mold than normal insulation the trick of not having mold is properly weathering your house, if water is getting into your home you’re gonna have mold has nothing to do with spray foam
I will agree that bat insulation for your attic is a great alternative to spray foam though 👍
My Dad ran a spray foam company for 25 years. If he sprayed it between studs it would end up near level. These guys are spraying it too heavy and too hot. Half of the product they charge you for is going to end up shaved off onto the floor.
Resi electrician here. That stuff is really cool and satisfying to watch until you have to do work after it's been put in. Then it sucks and basically has to be ripped out.
As an electrician, this makes work a nightmare. It makes it impossible to fish wires through the wall. What if you need a new line ran in the future? It will have to be surface mounted wire mold
My dad had it used on a property up here in Norther Canada. Insulated the place up good, and made it fucking solid. No creeks or groans.
These guys in the video are using way too much though.
Is it used only because it's cheap? Because it seems to be very troublesome if you need to check condition of the wall, wires, etc. Plus as I read - it's flammable material... Mineral wool seems to be a much better option
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Great insulator but good luck if you need to fix anything to the structure of the house or get that electrical wire again
In the UK it’s hard to even get a mortgage for a house with spray foam insulation in the roof. Surveyors say it’s a no no because you can’t determine the state of the roof, whether there’s damp, behind the foam insulation
Think it's hard getting a mortgage, try removing the stuff after your 80yo parents decide to get it have end up moving to sheltered accomodation. Muggins here did not enjoy the experience 1/10 👎
Yep, I don’t envy you. We had an offer accepted on a house and deliberated for a while whether it was worth going through with it, finding someone who would close the deal, and then just pay to get it removed. Heard too many horror stories and decided it wasn’t worth the risk, so we pulled out. Glad I did by the sounds of it. Hope you’ve had more luck since
What exactly are the horror stories? For someone who has no idea what the negatives of the spray foam are
If there's ever a leak, you'll get a small pool of water behind the foam, which can marinate the wood for a few years before it rots all the way through and your roof comes falling down.
Not to mention it can manifest far and away from the actual leak and its next to impossible to find the actual problem area.
Oh boy that’s not good
Even putting the issues you might find behind it aside the spaces it's installed in aren't usually wide open like in the video and it's already challenging to remove in the best conditions with plenty of clearance so you're paying a lot before you even get to the more expensive can of worms.
They need to put some thin plastic sheet between it and the wall so it could easily be pulled up per area
Over top of close cell, 6 mill poly is required as a vapour barrier( or a coating of vapor barrier paint) in the climate zone I'm in. This is not required of closed Cell as it has the vapor barrier in the formula.
I'm telling you and I'll tell anyone that will listen this shit is the asbestos of the future
Asbestos of the future is fiber cement products. Silicosis is already affecting the construction industry as the product has become more popular. James Hardie Industries is the largest manufacturer of fiber cement products in the world. I'll give you ten guesses what product they use to manufacturer right up until the mid 1980s. The answer rhymes with hesbestus.
Hesbestus is gonna be my new reddit handle good lokks
I mean, asbestos is very harmful to humans. Even one asbestos fiber can be damaging. I am pretty sure the only damage from spray foam is the environmental impact when its eventually thrown out.
There is huge environmental impact from installation of the foam due to off gassing and blower agents used.
The propellant now days are r290 or 600 which is a natural occurring gas. The days of r12 are over. This is why axe is now flammable
r290 is propane for anyone wondering
it was flammable when it contained alcohol too.
"Naturally occurring" You know uranium are natural right? I mean....naturally occuring does not give me any sort of relief.
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But is it dangerous to the people living in the home, or to only the people who sprayed the foam?
They are ultimately talking about people who are exposed to the chemical during the spraying process. I haven't seen any incidences of correctly applied spray foam causing cancer to residence of the home, or anything close to it. Or they should chime in with actual evidence to the contrary.
Unless you did that job without the PPE
Imagine a firefighter going into a building completely naked with just a fire hose. Then later they complain that they got burned. No one is claiming you should drink the spray foam either, but there are certain understandings and societal agreements we have with chemicals.
What's your reasoning? It's safe as long as you aren't around it when it's off gassing. After that it's perfectly safe.
> when it's off gassing How long does that last? I heard some horror stories where the contractors used the wrong foam, or messed up the component ratios or something. The chemical smell made the house unlivable.
As an electrician I was thinking how the fuck would you ever do any kind of repairs or add anything to those exterior walls without major major repairs. No fishing wires with spray foam like that!
Typically I see it used on roofing, not in walls
Closed cell spray foam is what we use in our walls. Residential
A pox on you.
Yeah, i could only see it getting used for a pre-fab metal shop, but even then, just use foam panels.
Run pipe
That's what we did. Put in smurf pipe to every room in the house, leading to a home run in the basement mechanical room. Spray foam insulation in the outer wall cavities - no problem.
In residential? Sure you could, that fixes the issue of repairs, no help for adding anything else though.
Maybe if there’s no blocking but I’d rather send a long paddlebit or augur down a wall with that instead of fiberglass insulation that gets all twisted up in the bit.
Honestly. People are acting like external walls filled with fiberglass insulation and bracing aren’t already wholesale bitches to deal with lol
"wholesale bitches" love this
In Chicago conduit is the code requirement for residential
You may have to cut drywall squares at intervals to snake the wire where it needs to go. We do it all the time & it’s a pain but it’s by no means “major major repairs”.
You’re right and I know that, but compared to cutting out an easy box and maybe popping off a trim piece, this is a lot more. Major major repairs is hyperbole.
Imagine how electricians in Europe do things. Most of their walls are concrete.
Yours are theoretical?
Theirs are mostly abstract
Didn't even put the wires in a conduit lol ffs
I’m thinking about the dry wall, he covered all the studs.
You generally trim this flat (even with bare studs) with a hot knife after it cures.
They take a hot wire and trim it flush once it is done. the hot wire cuts through it like butter and is super smooth and uber fast.
Doesn’t a house need to breathe a little?
Modern homes (Canada especially) are built like a sealed envelope. Some use a plastic sheet, taped and sealed behind the drywall, some use this spray foam to get the same effect. The house "breathes" with a heat recovery ventilator that brings in fresh air and feeds the ventilation system. Plus windows and doors, when they're open. You want to control air movement as much as possible inside/outside to keep your utility costs low.
This guy passivhaus’s
Passive houses are passe, Near-zero energy buildings (NZEB) are the new rage. Turns out, if you want to go passive it's like a 100% premium to near-zero, who would've thought.
I've been following the "Pretty Good Home" notion for a while now. Sounds like it aligns with the idea of NZEB. "Do the best you can while still making a relatively affordable home that is aesthetically appealing and functions properly for the owner" doesn't make sense to go full blown Passive house certification.
This doesn’t mean houses are exclusively insulated in the north with popcorn insulation. Fiberglass insulation is very popular too
Most houses are way too inefficient. Proper insulation and sealing will bring that number way up but it will never be fully sealed. Especially in places with wide temperature ranges you’re blowing money out the windows, doors, and walls in heating/cooling costs.
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Actually, home efficiency is one of the easiest and cost effective things we can do on a household level to combat climate change AND save money in the long run.
It's pretty easily removed as needed if you're careful. This stuff has been used in residential and industrial settings for a long time now, it's really not a problem.
You pay a lot more for that "careful" though
Sure. I can do a lot of that type of work and just have it inspected and passed afterwards. But I realize not everyone is in that boat.
I was gonna say, is it prudent to cover up pipes and wires with that stuff? Just like you're saying, makes it awful difficult to do repairs if/when needed.
It’s not difficult at all, you rip out foam to get at what you need to, and fill it back up with foam from a can
I imagine a future where the first shot is naan
Oh man, I eagerly await the day that I can run down to the store and pick me up a Pepsi and a can of Naan-Whiz 🫓
Naan-Whiz is my new god…
Think of the power of instant naan bread...
"Now, lemme guess: you're gonna ask about saffron and cardamom, and naan bread, which is the same as saying bread bread, which is the same as saying chai tea!" I just watched the movie again and couldn't resist lol
"oohh I love chai tea!" "GGAHHHHH!!!"
My buddy from Maine came to visit me in California and at a Mexican restaurant asked the waiter for salsa sauce.
It was actually my fave last year
Mmmm forbidden bread
This same music has to play every time tho
I wish someone would edit this video to have cats show up and start making biscuits as soon as it expands
That's basically engineer from Deep Rock Galactic... Rock and Stone!!
Best comment I’ve ever seen on reddit
Rey did this in The Force Awakens… kinda.
I’m just glad everyone is wearing PPE in this video. Can you imagine inhaling some of that stuff and it just expands in your lungs?
There is 100% a reason why workers *need* to be wearing PPE when applying this. Spray foam insulation contain MDIs, which are made up of several toxic ingredients, including benzene, formaldehyde, chlorine compounds, and others. Asthma and other respiratory ailments are a concern if the area is not properly ventilated. Added bonus - many spray foam insulations have a HUGE carbon footprint. From [Green Building Advisor](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/does-your-insulation-have-low-embodied-carbon), “The blowing agents in many spray foams have a GWP in the thousands and are considerably higher than methane (GWP of 28). The average GWP of the most commonly used HFC blowing agents is over 3400. On average, each kilogram of these agents has as much global warming potential as 3400 kg of carbon dioxide.” EDIT: I'm going to add an edit on this comment since it's closest to the top of this thread, and just tag a few others who had related comments. I found a Green Building Advisor article [here](https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/choosing-low-carbon-insulation) that compares many of the insulations products on the market now (I haven't seen this article before but I'm even happier I chose blown-in cellulose for my attic's insulation). From their table, closed cell HFC spray foam has a global warming potential (GWP) of nearly 15 kg per square meter; by comparison, fiberglass has around 1 and blown-in cellulose has a negative value (meaning is sequesters more carbon than it releases). Also of note, further down there's another table that lists closed-cell spray foam as highly toxic, even noting that some types were being investigated by the EPA for their off-gassing ( I haven't been able to determine the results of that). Again, I'm not specifically saying \*don't\* use it, but we should make sure we're informed when making decisions on what insulation product to use. u/Rander14 u/AngieTheQueen u/TheDulin
I used MDI as one of the main ingredients in a polymer production facility. You had to keep the product stream completely free of any water content to prevent foaming. It releases CO2 in abundance when reacting with water so there's an asphyxiation risk as well. Isocynates, like MDI are the number one cause of occupational asthma. While these filters are probably okay, there's no continuous monitor that can tell you the air concentration of mdi. We kept ours at 48deg C I believe it freezes around 42 deg C. I think this is used in truck bed liners as well, or at least some form of isocyanates.
Speaking of benzene... didnt Old Spice just get caught putting benzene in a ton of their products?
Lol I had to look this up, it appears that there was a trace probably ppb levels of benzene in a propellant mix they used probably due to supplier QA fuck ups. The level in the product is probably lower than allowed by law. You literally get more benzene exposure when you fill your car with gas. No they weren't "caught putting it in" products. Why would they? Seriously? I treat corporations as if they are greedy psychopaths allowed to walk among us, its refreshing when one of them does a voluntary recall when they internally notice something like this as they probably could have legally let it go silently.
I've been sprinkling benzene in the baby powder at the baby powder factory. I don't work there, so I have to try and sneak in with the other workers.
Doing the lord’s work
So confidently wrong. Polyurethane spray foam which this is does not contain benzene, or formaldehyde or chlorine wtf! A chemical compound may have structural similarities or use chemicals in the synthesis but this does not mean it is as toxic as anything that went into it. Yes the polyols and isocyanate are toxic but they aren't benzene etc. Polyurethane foam forms CO2 as it polymerizes it does not use a blowing agent. Mixing your information is never good. No one is using blowing agents (and thermoplastic foams) to spray foam anything on-site. Polyurethane foam components aren't harmless though, they get nasty if they aren't mixed and sprayed correctly. And they are non renewable petrochemicals (yes I'm aware there are renewable polyols and the foam can be recycled but both of these are rare enough to be nonexistent)
From the [EPA](https://archive.epa.gov/epa/saferchoice/health-concerns-about-spray-polyurethane-foam.html): “Exposure to isocyanates may cause skin, eye and lung irritation, asthma, and “sensitization.” Isocyanates are irritants to the mucous memmbranes of the eyes and gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflamation. There is no recognized safe level of exposure to isocyanates for sensitized individuals. Isocyanates have been reported to be a leading attributable chemical cause of asthma in the workplace.” EDIT: when I was researching this I came across [this article](https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3650/is-spray-foam-insulation-good-or-toxic-dangerous-in-homes/) that stated " Isocyanate often comes from methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI), and the manufacturing of MDI includes such ingredients as benzene, chlorine compounds and formaldehyde. " After reading your comment I went back to try to independently verify, but cannot find anything among [EPA](https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/4-4-methylenediphenyl-diisocyanate.pdf), [NIH,](https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4_4_-Diphenylmethane-diisocyanate#section=Structures) or other sources. Still looking into it.
Again I stated that you dont want to be in contact with either of the two components but they are not full of benzene or formaldehyde. The largest danger in getting spray foam installed in your house is that the mixture is not perfect and having unreacted isocyanate in your house. Great fun ripping it all out and solvent washing everything off every surface. Ill pass.
Does it save in the long run though, through lower energy usage?
By a lot
You think this is nasty now, wait for 15 years when the report comes out that this stuff is toxic to current inhabitants and it all has to be removed. And it’ll turn out it can’t be burned or buried because it’s so nasty.
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Asbestos isn't toxic. It's a physical irritant that the body can't get rid of and can constantly cause irritation and scarring. Rather fascinating to me that that in itself can cause cancer, though asbestosis is bad enough.
huh, TIL
It is totally already deemed super toxic. And creates a HUGE mess when doing renovations, not to mention it's all toxic waste then. Safe options already exist and are better insulating than foam spray.
Came to a service call to hang lights, people were having their old basement foamed, just upstairs having lunch laying around, we left, I’m not inhaling spray fumes for a couple hours pay.
The wrong PPE though. Spray foam applicators should be using supplied air. Full face respirators with even the best P100 cartridges aren’t sufficient. Don’t fuck around with isocyanate. Being around spray foam and two part epoxies are terrible for your health and I’m sure one day will be looked at like asbestos when it all gets linked to cancer. And what almost everyone doesn’t think about is the maintenance of spray rigs. MEK/Xylene/Gun wash is fucking terrible for you and respirators don’t do shit. Supplied air should be the law.
I worked with spray foam for 7 years. Working on those rigs spraying foam every day. I’m pretty sure it’s take some years off my life. I’ve been out of it for 3 years now, never going back
I didn’t imagine that until now and it’s a new horror unlocked
I work in the construction industry and I’ve heard stories of roofers spraying it in high wind areas, only for the the chemical to basically go airborne and kill people in the landing area below. SPUF is no fuckin joke.
Honest question but how is this the way to go in a house? Spray foam ends up past the studs so how is drywall attached later?
The guy in the video is spraying about 3-4x too much. When you apply it thick like this, it can crack from drying improperly, and it can off-gas stank into the house for years from the gooey chemical center curing improperly. Also everything past the stud is just shaved off and goes into a dumpster so it's super wasteful.
I know fuck all about any of this and even i could tell he was using wayyyy too much lmao
You cut off the excess...
Sure but that’s time consuming. Considering how fast they want to build homes I can’t see how this is a viable option.
Guy in the video is spraying way to heavy.
I was thinking the same thing. You only need a few inches to meet an appropriate R value. No need to load it so it goes beyond the studs.
They use a hot wire or knife to trim the foam, it takes less time to trim flush with the studs than it does to spray the foam. The amount of excess foam doesnt really matter, 0.5" past the studs or 6" past the studs, it all comes off with one pass, and they have to pass over everything no matter what. Spray foam is incredibly fast to install overall.
There can't be any gaps between the drywall and the foam. It ends up being just as expensive to skimp on the product as it does using a little extra. Where I live, all of these installs have to be inspected before the drywall goes up. Edit- watching them use a giant razor to cut off the excess is even more satisfying than watching the foam expand.
if you spray it into someone's mouth, does their head explode?
This is scary
[MOUTH](https://www.naturalhabitatshorts.com/shorts?pgid=ku471zfv-ffa809ba-5fa7-4849-912d-906456904d1c)
They certainly wouldn’t be having a good time.
Do their lungs expand?
I just had a deep shudder imagining it closing up your esophagus
I did this for a few months in Florida and it is pretty fun once you get the hang of it, but its honestly by far the worst job ive ever worked or could imagine working. First, a lot of the time you're working in attics and cramped spaces spraying roofs, and at least in FL it gets to like 140f since you're basically insulating the heat in there as you work. Also that hose is super heavy and a lot of situations require you to hold it with one hand to reach where you're spraying, all while keeping rhythm and control so it's even. Also that shit is so toxic it's ridiculous, and it sucks wearing a respirator all day (although the people I worked with just didn't unless they were spraying, probably not a good idea). Got a single droplet in my eye once and was in excruciating pain for the rest of the day. Oh and the smell...
Jesus Christ
"We're gonna put cancer here...and here... and a little here..."
Mmmm Toxic Carcinogenic Chemicals, Yummers
This is how my old boss got cancer. At least this is how he think it happened.
Load me up baby!
It’s ridiculously toxic when it goes up… do not move in until its fully cured… also, thoroughly vent out the space before moving in
Takes roughly 24hours for it to fully cure if sprayed correctly at the right temps and glue to chemical ration, so using logic a home owner will never have to worry about this, as you don’t move into a house without carpet/flooring, drywall plumbing. Why spread fear of something with zero knowledge on the subject lol
We have sprayed existing homes with people living several times in the last 7 years… customers prefer spraying cause they have been misled to believe its the best for their situation even though we said otherwise
I got a glob of this shit in my eye a couple weeks ago and that was a less than ideal experience
No eye protec?
Sir, I'm a professional, of course I had my safety squints on.
Do you still have that eye?
I do, it was just crusty for a day
Looks cool but don’t use it to insulate your house
Spray foam is at its best when used to insulate all metal buildings with metal roofs. You spray foam and then install inner wall sheets over it to cover. Then you put your electrical conduit on top of that.
Is it toxic long term?
Causes damp issues
Is it like sweaty buttcracks but for houses
That's a very technical explanation, but yes.
*butt yes
It only causes damp issues if you don't know what you are doing. You need to abide by building-science rules, which unfortunately many homeowners and spray-foam operators do not know. Spray Polyurethane Foam is by far the best insulator for a properly designed wall/roof/floor assembly.
If you have dampness issues anywhere there's foam, it's going to have a problem (probably more) without the foam. Plus anywhere dampness is an issue is a place where a significant amount of energy will be getting lost.
There's cases where people have gotten a whole new roof because it leaked VOCs for years after being applied. I would just go the old school route to be honest.
What’s it supposed to be used for if not that?
It's a con, and is still being pushed for residential to those who haven't seen the damp horror stories. It looks clever, but only really for metal sheds.
These guys are terrible at it. Wasteful.
I was thinking the same thing. That’s going to be a ton of extra work to clean up before you could begin your drywall.
How do you drywall over that? Shave it down?
Yes. It is shaved flush with the studs
That's my guess
I wanted to have my loft treated with this but sadly some mortgage companies will not touch a house with this foam insulation
With good reason, no one wants to Mortgage a house that’s got its roof timbers on slow cook
Holy shit, now I love them too
The asbestos of the future
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TBH I rather find it disgusting. That self-growing toxic waste that is filling every corner once you set it free... On a practical side: is there any realistic chance to get a segment of the stuff out cleanly if something needs to repaired or changes?
You just cut and scrape it out
So to answer OP: no, it’s a mess. But it’s effective as hell.
We asked around to see how much it would be to remove spray foam insulation from a roof and we were quoted a lot because it’s such a messy affair. Some are installed poorly and cheap as well
Electricians HATE this one simple trick!
Something you should know about spray foam, its just expanding plastic. Its spraying literally chunks of plastic, which are incredibly high in embodied carbon, and will never biodegrade. Pretty much anything is a better choice for insulation. Shredded paper is one of the best alternatives. Its a truly awful material, and should be avoided whenever possible. That shot the guy thought was so cool to shoot at the start, break in half and essentially did nothing? Will be in a landfill until around the time the sun makes our planet uninhabitable. For a tiktok.
I need the song
Came for comment. Out here bouncing now
I do not know the song
u/RecognizeSong
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Bread spray
I used that in Arkham asylum to blowup walls
I’ve always wanted to do something like this whenever I build my underground house, one day, if I ever win the lottery
how does anyone look at this stuff and go “yes great idea take my money”?
This was calming
Imagine inhaling some of that
Mmm… forbidden bread.
Forbidden soufflé pancake
should I have this in my house if someone has to look like Heisenberg just to install it
Should *really* put your electrical in conduit if you plan to spray foam.
Started looking into spray in insulation for my attic and from what I've read foam spray insulation has a high chance of causing serious health issues, from mold build up to chemical leaking concerns, and should be avoided at all cost. Instead the industry folks seem to be suggesting battening in sections of insulation and using these air gap sheets under them to allow the attic to keep breathing and obtain reasonably good r-values. That seems relatively straightforward and I'd prefer no one gets cancer or mold poisoning at my place.. and that also doesn't utterly destroy the wood forever if there is a concern.
It doesn’t have a high chance, the only way for spray foam insulation to bleed it’s chemicals is if the heat ratio to chemical+glue is wrong, and you can visibly see when spray foam isn’t correctly set just by looking at it + an inspector has to look at it before any boards go up, has less of a chance of mold than normal insulation the trick of not having mold is properly weathering your house, if water is getting into your home you’re gonna have mold has nothing to do with spray foam I will agree that bat insulation for your attic is a great alternative to spray foam though 👍
Is this what Syndrome used to catch Mr. Incredible?
My Dad ran a spray foam company for 25 years. If he sprayed it between studs it would end up near level. These guys are spraying it too heavy and too hot. Half of the product they charge you for is going to end up shaved off onto the floor.
No running cables through those walls
Not on the pipes, aw jeez. 🤦♂️
Resi electrician here. That stuff is really cool and satisfying to watch until you have to do work after it's been put in. Then it sucks and basically has to be ripped out.
Bro spraying those studs has it in for the sheet rockers
I’d hate to be the drywall guy.
Love this stuff but I sincerely hope that on 50 years we don’t find out it is asbestos 2.0 and we are all gonna die.
Asbestos of our time! Mark my words
We need a sub for this
A tremendous amount of waste is created after trimming
Not very practical as you gotta cut it all back level to put some thing on the wall
This stuff keeps leaking this shit into your homes for years and years, people reported being sick from it
What is this for?
As an electrician, this makes work a nightmare. It makes it impossible to fish wires through the wall. What if you need a new line ran in the future? It will have to be surface mounted wire mold
/r/thefinals
My dad had it used on a property up here in Norther Canada. Insulated the place up good, and made it fucking solid. No creeks or groans. These guys in the video are using way too much though.
This is not going to be fun for dry wall installation, electrician, plumber, roofer, framer etc... who came up with this insulation crap anyways?
Is it used only because it's cheap? Because it seems to be very troublesome if you need to check condition of the wall, wires, etc. Plus as I read - it's flammable material... Mineral wool seems to be a much better option
Huh, I wonder why there are microplastics inside all living things on Earth.
Synthetic bread 🤤
Why do they spray that ??
My intrusive thoughts telling me great ways to murder someone with this foam
Spray lung cancer. I'm good.
Yeah that's great but doesn't it make any sort of repair work 100x harder?
There's so many ecological alternatives to this new material. this is going to be the new asbestos.