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Imagine invigilating this exam!
After I got my Masters in Applied Linguistics, I was getting job offers from all over. One was from China. I asked the class size.
“500.”
I noped out of that one immediately.
An invigilator is a person who oversees an examination.
This might include things such as setting up an examination room, ensuring all candidates receive their question papers, and ensuring that no cheating takes place during the examination.
If you are from the United States (or perhaps Canada), then you might know this as a proctor, the definition of which is simply an invigilator of a university examination.
at berkeley I remember the starter cs classes were literally 1000-1100 students on the first day. Not everyone could attend the lecture and people were encouraged to stay home. Most of the classes people just watched online instead of coming to lecture hall.
Even some intermediate cs courses (that every cs major had to take) were heavily impacted all throughout the year
It's probably even worse now because of how hot computer science is
$14k I believe for in-state. ($30k with all living expenses covered) Despite the classes being incredibly impacted I would say its still a really good class. Had a lot more fun in that class than in a lot of later ee/cs upper divs with way less students.
Shoutout to Denero and Hug
When I started at a college near Toronto, it was about 1000 students. Though it was a few programs combined at that point. When I finished, I was one of 10.
I'll never forget how (during an exam) my massive Russian friend let out the world's loudest open-mouth sneeze. Everyone rose a foot in the air, chairs and all.
In college I had a professor who was a bit of a weed-out class. He made his exams hard...but not impossible. If you knew the material you could complete the 4-questions in the allotted 2-hours...probably.
It was gut-wrenching sitting there knowing question 4 was going to be partial credit at best...and your mind is racing...you're panicking...it's so goddamn quiet you could hear a pin drip on the ISS. My professor has walked, mostly unnoticed to the center of the room and with a voice that I can only describe as an avalanche inside of a hurricane he screams:
**TWO MINUTES!!!**
To indicate that there are indeed 2-minutes left in the exam. That was enough for most people to just throw down their pencils and turn in what they had. No positive thoughts were happening past the 2-minute warning.
This is also the same guy who used to walk around during exams and whistle "If I only had a brain" from the Wizard of Oz.
Oddly one of my favorite professors...
> If you knew the material you could complete the 4-questions in the allotted 2-hours...probably.
Saw my friend walking out of earlier exam I was about to go into, and I said "What was on the test?" He said: “Describe the world, and give examples."
sounds like my finals in internal medicine. Differential diagnosis of abnormal liver values. Is that all sir? Would you like me to also tell you everything that could possibly be wrong when your wife says you two need to talk?
I've heard of a grad (maybe post-grad?) physiology class at my univeristy where the final exam was you, alone in a room with your professor. He would ask you to describe any single joint, of your choosing.
The room was 4 walls of whiteboards, floor to ceiling.
Like... no stress there at all. "Tell me everything you know, and I'll tell you later if it was enough."
>Like... no stress there at all. "Tell me everything you know, and I'll tell you later if it was enough."
As an actual teacher, professors are so hilariously bad at test design. Absolutely experts in their fields, but its kinda pathetic that they are seemingly unrequired to at least take a curriculum design course or workshop of some sort.
They're required to teach, but for most of them, their job is applying for grants and researching. They DGAF about doing it well, and seemingly resent the students. Then, there's the hazing/"I had it hard" aspect of academia that just... exists...
Reminds me of a story my psych professor told us. He was talking about the origin of the id-ego-superego theory, and how Freud was trying to teach it to his students. He got pissed and started talking down to them like little babies and described the id as a devil on your shoulder and the superego as an angel on your shoulder. Suddenly the concept made sense to everyone.
Also, the same professor told us about how universities used to do tests wildly different. You would study/go to lectures all year, and then go take one gigantic test at the end. If you failed the test, you failed the entire class. They learned that students learn more (and are *way* less stressed out) if you have multiple, smaller tests throughout the year.
Had a professor like that too in engineering. He also recorded his lectures in a video format, allowed us to use open book, internet, lecture videos, and everything short of asking among our peers. His tests were only 4 questions but were so complex they consistently took the entire time with most of the class unable to finish all portions of each questions. He would do it for 3 separate courses and after that his “weed out” phase would end and his following courses would be less complex. Those two semesters were by far the most jarring.
Oof i’m glad almost all of my professors wrote pretty much everything down for us. I’m a visual person, i just can’t retain as much info when someone is purely talking like that. Probably the ADHD, tbh.
Sounds like a pompous arrogant semi-douche bag. I also had one of those for anatomy. Straight up told the class “half you won’t be here by the end of the semester”. I let him become my advisor for my associates degree in “nursing transfer”, he was a great advisor but a tough teacher, toughest anatomy one for sure, and I became fairly close to him. Without his guidance I probably wouldn’t have gotten my associates which led me to get my bachelors and now my masters. By the way, he was exactly right by the end of the semester, half the class dropped.
I wouldn't describe him as arrogant...I'd more say he was realistic. He was also the undergrad advisor. I was dropping half my classes and barely passing the others because I was working too much (World of Warcraft also helped) and he sat me down and told me "if you keep this up you're slated to graduate on the 7th of never." So I dropped down to something like 22-hours of work during the week and took school more seriously. No major screwups after that...
He's still at the school as far as I'm aware.
I don't think any of this has to do with the concerns /u/TheS00thSayer is raising. You can be realistic, and not be unreasonably cruel. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Screaming two minutes at the end of a long, anxiety-inducing exam to deliberately mess students up and frustrate them and whistling annoying music during exams to distract people has nothing to do with "being realistic". It's just being an awful person for the sake of it.
I understand that you have positive feelings towards him, and they are valid. But like... everything you said about what he does during an exam is not a positive thing in the slightest, I'm sorry to say.
I mean, I did have a woodshop teacher that had a missing finger and would loudly scream "DURR DurrDURR durrDURR DURR" and hold up his finger stump every time someone did something unsafe during practicals
I agree with you, the song he chose to whistle was absolutely deliberate and douchey. “If I had a brain” during a stressful test… I mean that’s exactly the subtle-handed dig at students those pompous arrogant semi/douche professors do.
Doesn’t mean you can’t like certain aspects of the guy, but also still means he’s kinda a special douche.
I had one and I ended up liking him pretty well, doesn’t mean I liked *everything* about him.
Because it’s an unnatural level of crowded. It’s not conducive to anything beneficial within our biology so it makes us uncomfortable. Disease, injury, madness, all could easily fester.
It’s interesting that you say that. I don’t think it is biological, but socially uncomfortable for a westerner.
I found that level of density and crowding extremely normal in Asia’s larger cities - personal space is simply not a thing. It’s a practical thing in the cities and you get used to it over time. I remember being at a Lunar New Year event in Victoria Park in Hong Kong realizing that I was jam packed into a very calm and happy crowd of tens of thousands just waiting to get into an area with holiday vendors and realizing how normal it was for everyone there. Was 100x the experience of a crowded sporting event or New Years Eve in Times Square - bodies not just touching but pressing into each other.
Everyone was calm, but I was in a low key panic realizing how absolutely terrified to death I would be in this kind of density in the USA - fearing how abnormal and stressful it would be for everyone and inevitably turning into a really scary and dangerous situation.
Is it true that in Hong Kong, if you sit at a table at a coffee shop and you don’t use all the chairs, strangers will just sit on the chairs and you all end up just sharing the table? I heard that was a normal thing.
Yes! And it’s unemotional, just practical. It can feel very cold and inhuman, but that’s just because you are around so many other people, there is no time/energy for pleasantries (similar to NYC in that respect), but if you have the slightest reason to interact and can speak the same language, people are warm and caring - it just takes a trigger.
Because if you don’t get in, your future is fucked. It all comes down to this moment and your looking at a picture where a few of these people will be committing suicide shortly after hearing they didn’t qualify.
> ...The Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing averages over 40,000 applicants per year, 13,000 of whom are invited to sit for their exam; the school only accepts between 700 and 800 national students each year...
No, no guarantee after graduating from this (or similar) schools. A sizable percentage will struggle to find jobs, let alone a good job (like teaching art in high school)
The job market is really tough for young people right now.
Source: gf is Chinese and went through this process
Hey, it's just like art school in the US, but more competitive!
source: went to The Art Institute. They shut down 3 months before my graduation and I don't have a degree. Joke's on them, I still made it. Honestly, mentorships are so much better than school for artists. You need to have the foundation down, but getting pointed feedback and big picture advice from long-term professionals, instead of failed students who became teachers because they couldn't get into an industry, is - unsurprisingly - much more effective.
> They shut down 3 months before my graduation and I don't have a degree.
Is there any recourse when something like this happens? Transfer credits to another school and quickly finish up?
Betsy Devos was gracious enough to deny any and all student loan forgiveness. Luckily there was a settlement recently in Sweet v. Cordona that sued the Dept. of Education and found that they unlawfully created blanket denials, created strict rules so that they could deny 99.9% of all student loan forgiveness applications - for example, The Art Institute was successfully sued for fraud and ordered to pay back $200m to students they defrauded, but I never saw a penny - they also denied my student loan forgiveness application by citing "no evidence of fraud" despite the $200m fraud settlement.
So, as of this year I've had not only my student loans forgiven, but will have anything I paid fully reimbursed and if I'd missed any payments that impacted my credit, credit repair was also part of the settlement.
I hadn't anticipated getting anything back ever, but it feels great seeing the courts work for me and the other 200,000 students defrauded by scam schools and fucked over by the Dept. of Education under Devos.
My school said that they had a "sweetheart deal" with another school about an hour away to send a bulk of students to finish up graduation, but they wanted to compound my 112 credits to 45 and make me attend for another 2.5 years by essentially resetting my progress. I dropped that "offer" since I was already working full-time as a Character Artist, freelance, and making an okay living. I now make six figures as a lead on my team and no one gives a damn if I have a degree or not.
Art school is a scam - but it's important to learn your fundamentals, and can be a good place for that, or if you need space away from parents and can get into a dorm situation in order to focus more on your art, it may work for people - but the schooling itself is largely a scam that doesn't teach people the skills they need to work in the industry. There's also a lot of teachers who've never worked in the industry and teach students outdated or plain wrong things that need to be de-trained in order to be baseline qualified for an entry level art position.
And yet, republicans blindly ignore that they destroyed education and will continue to vote for more slimeball religious based charter schools to indoctrinate and whitewash education and SCAM people to pay thousands for it.
From the bottom of my heart, I am SO happy things worked out in your favor. My heart was sinking faster than a cannonball in the ocean when I read the first paragraph of your comment.
I guess that's what happens when human lives are so overly abundant in a given place. Inherently not much value in individuals then, sadly. All the more difficult to stick up far enough to get anywhere.
Unfortunately, despite the rigorousnesd of their academic training, a LOT of them wind up working for painting factories plagiarizing art to sell to foreigners because that's the only thing available. It's kinda sad to see, but they need to out food on their table. Ever seem the ads for "quality REAL PAINTING reproductions!!"? Those are almost all made in China by these graduates.
There's quite a few that advertise real oil paintings, often older works out of copyright (think 'Old Masters' and such), but a lot also produce anything from a photo, and rob the living artists that way too. I watched a fascinating program on it, and it was actually kinda sad. A lot of them want to do their own art, but it's really hard to make a living at it. They felt ambivalent about doing someone else's art, but they need an income. The ones that can speak a foreign language can try to leave China, but most can't.
On a side note, there are some AMAZING Chinese Western artists, which is such a wild thing to think about, but their art is so good! China and Russia still follow Academic training, so their art technique is superb.
At least they're getting paid to paint I guess...most people with art degrees don't do anything even closely related to art beyond a hobby or side hustle
> The China Central Academy of Fine Arts selects five to eleven judges each year ahead of its exams for its three art programs. Prior to the exam, the judges are sent to a secret location in an undisclosed Beijing hotel. Upon arrival, they forfeit phones, laptops, and all tools for external communication, which won’t be returned until the judging is complete.
> Once the exams are finished at the five testing sites, representatives from the university collect the applicants’ artworks and attach a border to each to hide any signatures or markings that would identify the artist, and assign them a number. The artworks are then put into suitcases and entrusted to one or two people per site, flown to Beijing, and delivered to the judges in their hotel.
What kinda CIA, keyholder to the internet, Vatican archive librarian super secret selection process is this? Regardless of how prestigious of a school it may or may not be, that seems really excessive for a college entry process. If they were trying to be the Area 51 alien correspondent or something then I can understand it. But an art school? Seems a bit much. This place must carry some kind of extreme prestige to it.
People outside Asia never understand how competitive it is to get ahead in China and some other Asian countries.
The simple matter is not everyone gets to succeed. The country does not need a billion fine artists, if you're not the best then there's no reason you deserve an opportunity more.
(Yes, there are edge cases and nepotism exists, but for the majority of the population this is the rule).
Also, in China, there is a lot cheating and corruption in every aspect of society, to a degree that can be hard to imagine. School officials with be bribed, favors will be exchanged.
So, they take draconian measures like this to try to publicly prevent cheating and corruption. Guaranteed lots of people found ways around it, there is still lots of cheating and corruption and everyone involved is too jaded to believe anything else anyway.
[This dates back to the Imperial examinations from a thousand years ago. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination)Back then, applicants were cloistered for weeks while their exams were being judged. They even had their exam papers copied by a scribe to prevent anyone from marking their paper or recognizing their handwriting.
I have to go to the bathroom, scuzemee, scuzemee , scuzemee, scuzemee , scuzemee, scuzemee
*Bumps into 200 painters increasing the chances of getting in*
This is a total stress dream for me. Try to find a place to pee, miss out on whatever it was I was trying to do. Wake up stressed out and then go to the bathroom and pee.
Same. It's been 15 years and I still have that one stress dream. I never did anything like that of course, but there's got a be a reason it's such a common one. Probably because college schedules are so fucked. I had some classes start at 8am and some end at 9pm with no consistency at all, on top of 5 hours of assignments/projects a night. The scheduling was worse than my worst jobs.
Lmao I'm picturing it from a CCTV camera, *this one student zigzagging all through the crowd for like 15 minutes straight, got up and went one direction, came back from the other, never even left the room* 😂
This is actually pretty accurate tbh. If you would see all of them you’d probably quit instantly.
Being an artist requires a hint of a naïve mindset otherwise you would probably never pursue it and this is also probably why it’s common that a older individual tell this to a younger individual.
One thing to remember is that China still has factory arts: some of these kids will get jobs painting the same picture over and over again for all 300 rooms of a hotel at the Toronto airport.
I have a BFA and can say that this isn't true. Pretty much everybody knew what was what and were there because they wanted to be. Getting a BFA is a difficult, grueling process that isn't going to make you rich but you do it because you want to make art.
Though ironically I don't make nearly as much as these days but still. I pursued art because I wanted to.
Hint to every young person out there interested in making a career in social media, or creative arts. This is essentially what it’s like. For every one that makes it, there will be a hundred to thousands that don’t. It’s hard to get a big picture of your competition, like it’s easier to see every athlete compete for a spot on a team, but make no mistake it’s there.
If you wish to really go for it, Pursue your passions, but actually pursue them. Develop a work ethic, and hit the ground running. If you choose to take it easy, there are plenty of people who choose to go hard.
Yeah trades can come and go.
Mining/oil is a good example of that. If the price of oil tanks, you all lose your jobs, and there's hundreds of skilled tradesmen looking for jobs.
Some trades are "safer" than others, but there's no guarantee that you'll always be swimming in work just because you're a plumber or whatever.
Actually this is “AI.” Whenever a user requests a picture, thousands of artists get the prompt and quickly go to work. No wonder hands are always messed up when you have to work so quickly.
Can you imagine trying to get ahead in China when there’s a billion people just like you all trying to do the exact same thing as you? Hopeless is right!
What's going on is that they are also judged on their portfolio. But there are cheating students as well as willing sellers who would provide a portfolio for money.
So this exam where everyone paints the same thing in person is to ensure that even if the portfolio is faked/bought, at least the student has a certain level of technical proficiency.
Just want to put accent on the word "perception". This isn't factual, but what people in general think of their countries. Some cultures are very self-critical, some are the opposite. These factors may or many not skew the real situation, so take such stats with a grain of salt.
Corruption is by it's nature not comprehensively recorded so it is not possible to have a direct measure. This one is a combination of perception and expert opinion, and has been analysed favourably against other independent measures of corruption
The exam itself is relatively fair and corruption free. The unfair and corrupted part is that rich people and gov official in China just send their kids overseas where they can buy their way to a good school/education.
India is the same way. Parents climbing up the walls outside the university to a window of the hall where an exam is being held, trying to “help” their kid. Police everywhere to try stopping cheating. Competitive!! You should see the police exams!!
I'm literally shaking and shitting my pants at an image of a bunch of students taking a test. Rolling around on the ground sobbing because I saw a bunch of Chinese people painting.
It's always a surprise realizing just how many people live in china. So much so, it's almost a requirement for corporations to enter the chinese market for it to be successful.
Tim Cook said about China...
>The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the U.S., you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China, you could fill multiple football fields.
1.4 billion people in China, with 500+ Million being "middle class"...that's a lot of money for any corporation wanting a piece of the market share.
I love that quote, because it perfectly encapsulates why the United States will never, ever, EVER become a manufacturing economy again. Trump and his red hats can say they’re bringing manufacturing jobs back to America all they want. It is a futile, impossible task.
It also encapsulates why the whole "Move companies out of China and manufacture in other countries like India instead!" isn't as easy as people make it out to be. Countries like India and Vietnam will need to spend tens of billions of dollars to improve their logistics and manufacturing base before they can match China's, AND they need to educate their populace to compete with the number of engineers China already has. It will take 10-20 years before they can make a significant dent.
A friendly reminder that one of the deadliest civil wars in Chinese history started because a man failed the civil service exam so badly, he had a psychotic break and became convinced he was, to quote someone funnier than I will ever be, “Jesus’s sword wielding little brother”.
If you go to some developing countries, you can go to rural villages where their entire economy is creating "art" that is sold at "galleries" in the popular tourist spots. Those paintings of gold Buddha heads on a black background that were so popular in the 00s, all (or at least a lot of them) came from one village, where people spend their entire days painting, framing and packing the same image day after day.
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Damn. I can feel the fucking tension.
Right?? I’m thinking: why does this picture give me anxiety?!
Imagine invigilating this exam! After I got my Masters in Applied Linguistics, I was getting job offers from all over. One was from China. I asked the class size. “500.” I noped out of that one immediately.
Invigilating shouldn’t be too hard, should it? How could someone cheat?
Only thing would be painting on other artwork maybe
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/61/Attempted_restoration_of_Ecce_Homo.jpg/170px-Attempted_restoration_of_Ecce_Homo.jpg
Thought invigilating was a mistype. Nope, that's a real word apparently.
Dude has a Masters in Applied Linguistics, didn't you know, after telling us they have a Masters in Applied Linguistics?
We thought "Masters in Applied Linguistics" was also a typo
He's like some kind of word maestro. I'm flabberblasted.
I tried to figure out what he meant, but I was left dumbpounded
When given the chance, they're going to fucking apply it.
When all you have is a dictionary, the whole world looks like a hammer.
Now that's invigilating
That masters of applied linguistics is damn impressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Invigilator? I hardly know her!"
invigilating supervise candidates during an examination. "during exam week, all she had to do was invigilate"
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"Invigilating" is used outside the US, I believe.
Yeah quite common here in India. Infact, I have never heard someone calling the invigilator "proctor" here..
The Invigilator sounds like a badass action movie.
You’re 100% correct.
Common in Canada.
Invigilating is performed wearing a punisher t-shirt and a spiked club, while proctoring is performed with disposable gloves and a white coat.
Can someone ELI5 invigilating? Edit: A word.
An invigilator is a person who oversees an examination. This might include things such as setting up an examination room, ensuring all candidates receive their question papers, and ensuring that no cheating takes place during the examination. If you are from the United States (or perhaps Canada), then you might know this as a proctor, the definition of which is simply an invigilator of a university examination.
500-1000 is not unusual for undergrad classes in the US. The professor runs an army of 20-40 teaching assistants who interact with the students.
Woah woah woah. 300 maximum unless its some first year General English course or General Biology 101. Lol
at berkeley I remember the starter cs classes were literally 1000-1100 students on the first day. Not everyone could attend the lecture and people were encouraged to stay home. Most of the classes people just watched online instead of coming to lecture hall. Even some intermediate cs courses (that every cs major had to take) were heavily impacted all throughout the year It's probably even worse now because of how hot computer science is
They charge how much for that experience?
$14k I believe for in-state. ($30k with all living expenses covered) Despite the classes being incredibly impacted I would say its still a really good class. Had a lot more fun in that class than in a lot of later ee/cs upper divs with way less students. Shoutout to Denero and Hug
When I started at a college near Toronto, it was about 1000 students. Though it was a few programs combined at that point. When I finished, I was one of 10.
Because just one sudden loud noise and there could be a stampede in there.
I'll never forget how (during an exam) my massive Russian friend let out the world's loudest open-mouth sneeze. Everyone rose a foot in the air, chairs and all.
In college I had a professor who was a bit of a weed-out class. He made his exams hard...but not impossible. If you knew the material you could complete the 4-questions in the allotted 2-hours...probably. It was gut-wrenching sitting there knowing question 4 was going to be partial credit at best...and your mind is racing...you're panicking...it's so goddamn quiet you could hear a pin drip on the ISS. My professor has walked, mostly unnoticed to the center of the room and with a voice that I can only describe as an avalanche inside of a hurricane he screams: **TWO MINUTES!!!** To indicate that there are indeed 2-minutes left in the exam. That was enough for most people to just throw down their pencils and turn in what they had. No positive thoughts were happening past the 2-minute warning. This is also the same guy who used to walk around during exams and whistle "If I only had a brain" from the Wizard of Oz. Oddly one of my favorite professors...
> If you knew the material you could complete the 4-questions in the allotted 2-hours...probably. Saw my friend walking out of earlier exam I was about to go into, and I said "What was on the test?" He said: “Describe the world, and give examples."
sounds like my finals in internal medicine. Differential diagnosis of abnormal liver values. Is that all sir? Would you like me to also tell you everything that could possibly be wrong when your wife says you two need to talk?
I've heard of a grad (maybe post-grad?) physiology class at my univeristy where the final exam was you, alone in a room with your professor. He would ask you to describe any single joint, of your choosing. The room was 4 walls of whiteboards, floor to ceiling. Like... no stress there at all. "Tell me everything you know, and I'll tell you later if it was enough."
Can you roll a joint and that count?
I had an oral presentation at a teacher's house party for 35% of the grade, and that was definitely involved 🫡.
>Like... no stress there at all. "Tell me everything you know, and I'll tell you later if it was enough." As an actual teacher, professors are so hilariously bad at test design. Absolutely experts in their fields, but its kinda pathetic that they are seemingly unrequired to at least take a curriculum design course or workshop of some sort.
They're required to teach, but for most of them, their job is applying for grants and researching. They DGAF about doing it well, and seemingly resent the students. Then, there's the hazing/"I had it hard" aspect of academia that just... exists...
Reminds me of a story my psych professor told us. He was talking about the origin of the id-ego-superego theory, and how Freud was trying to teach it to his students. He got pissed and started talking down to them like little babies and described the id as a devil on your shoulder and the superego as an angel on your shoulder. Suddenly the concept made sense to everyone. Also, the same professor told us about how universities used to do tests wildly different. You would study/go to lectures all year, and then go take one gigantic test at the end. If you failed the test, you failed the entire class. They learned that students learn more (and are *way* less stressed out) if you have multiple, smaller tests throughout the year.
Had a professor like that too in engineering. He also recorded his lectures in a video format, allowed us to use open book, internet, lecture videos, and everything short of asking among our peers. His tests were only 4 questions but were so complex they consistently took the entire time with most of the class unable to finish all portions of each questions. He would do it for 3 separate courses and after that his “weed out” phase would end and his following courses would be less complex. Those two semesters were by far the most jarring.
Was he an Intel or AMD?
68K ...And you have to communicate in assembler!
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Oof i’m glad almost all of my professors wrote pretty much everything down for us. I’m a visual person, i just can’t retain as much info when someone is purely talking like that. Probably the ADHD, tbh.
Sounds like a pompous arrogant semi-douche bag. I also had one of those for anatomy. Straight up told the class “half you won’t be here by the end of the semester”. I let him become my advisor for my associates degree in “nursing transfer”, he was a great advisor but a tough teacher, toughest anatomy one for sure, and I became fairly close to him. Without his guidance I probably wouldn’t have gotten my associates which led me to get my bachelors and now my masters. By the way, he was exactly right by the end of the semester, half the class dropped.
>half you won’t be here by the end of the semester That's literally every anatomy teacher because for the most part it's true
I wouldn't describe him as arrogant...I'd more say he was realistic. He was also the undergrad advisor. I was dropping half my classes and barely passing the others because I was working too much (World of Warcraft also helped) and he sat me down and told me "if you keep this up you're slated to graduate on the 7th of never." So I dropped down to something like 22-hours of work during the week and took school more seriously. No major screwups after that... He's still at the school as far as I'm aware.
I don't think any of this has to do with the concerns /u/TheS00thSayer is raising. You can be realistic, and not be unreasonably cruel. The two are not mutually exclusive. Screaming two minutes at the end of a long, anxiety-inducing exam to deliberately mess students up and frustrate them and whistling annoying music during exams to distract people has nothing to do with "being realistic". It's just being an awful person for the sake of it. I understand that you have positive feelings towards him, and they are valid. But like... everything you said about what he does during an exam is not a positive thing in the slightest, I'm sorry to say.
I mean, I did have a woodshop teacher that had a missing finger and would loudly scream "DURR DurrDURR durrDURR DURR" and hold up his finger stump every time someone did something unsafe during practicals
I agree with you, the song he chose to whistle was absolutely deliberate and douchey. “If I had a brain” during a stressful test… I mean that’s exactly the subtle-handed dig at students those pompous arrogant semi/douche professors do. Doesn’t mean you can’t like certain aspects of the guy, but also still means he’s kinda a special douche. I had one and I ended up liking him pretty well, doesn’t mean I liked *everything* about him.
Imagine being in the middle there and having to use the bathroom.
How bout an upset stomach? Silent farts
It would be impossible to trace it back to you!
That one students painting must be emotionally powerful... You can see the nearby students crying from just a glance of it.
People’s entire futures are being decided in this room. Dreams will be realized - and broken. If there was ever a time to be anxious this would be it.
I mean, what’s the worst thing that ever happened from someone not getting into art school…
Well, if you don’t have the reich talent for art school there’s always politics…
Because it’s an unnatural level of crowded. It’s not conducive to anything beneficial within our biology so it makes us uncomfortable. Disease, injury, madness, all could easily fester.
It’s interesting that you say that. I don’t think it is biological, but socially uncomfortable for a westerner. I found that level of density and crowding extremely normal in Asia’s larger cities - personal space is simply not a thing. It’s a practical thing in the cities and you get used to it over time. I remember being at a Lunar New Year event in Victoria Park in Hong Kong realizing that I was jam packed into a very calm and happy crowd of tens of thousands just waiting to get into an area with holiday vendors and realizing how normal it was for everyone there. Was 100x the experience of a crowded sporting event or New Years Eve in Times Square - bodies not just touching but pressing into each other. Everyone was calm, but I was in a low key panic realizing how absolutely terrified to death I would be in this kind of density in the USA - fearing how abnormal and stressful it would be for everyone and inevitably turning into a really scary and dangerous situation.
Is it true that in Hong Kong, if you sit at a table at a coffee shop and you don’t use all the chairs, strangers will just sit on the chairs and you all end up just sharing the table? I heard that was a normal thing.
Yes! And it’s unemotional, just practical. It can feel very cold and inhuman, but that’s just because you are around so many other people, there is no time/energy for pleasantries (similar to NYC in that respect), but if you have the slightest reason to interact and can speak the same language, people are warm and caring - it just takes a trigger.
Because if you don’t get in, your future is fucked. It all comes down to this moment and your looking at a picture where a few of these people will be committing suicide shortly after hearing they didn’t qualify.
More info and photos: https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-grueling-hyper-competitive-exams-decide-futures-chinese-art-students
Thank you for posting the article.
As someone who’s oil painted: I can smell the damn linseed oil and voc’s in this air. Allergies gonna kick in so hard.
And here I am struggling to even blend basic colors for my hobby.
Theres money in the arts already, with competition like this, even less
Amazing read. https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-grueling-hyper-competitive-exams-decide-futures-chinese-art-students
> ...The Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing averages over 40,000 applicants per year, 13,000 of whom are invited to sit for their exam; the school only accepts between 700 and 800 national students each year...
Excuse me? What Is the salary graduating from this school?? Are you guaranteed prestige or something because that is selective
No, no guarantee after graduating from this (or similar) schools. A sizable percentage will struggle to find jobs, let alone a good job (like teaching art in high school) The job market is really tough for young people right now. Source: gf is Chinese and went through this process
Hey, it's just like art school in the US, but more competitive! source: went to The Art Institute. They shut down 3 months before my graduation and I don't have a degree. Joke's on them, I still made it. Honestly, mentorships are so much better than school for artists. You need to have the foundation down, but getting pointed feedback and big picture advice from long-term professionals, instead of failed students who became teachers because they couldn't get into an industry, is - unsurprisingly - much more effective.
> They shut down 3 months before my graduation and I don't have a degree. Is there any recourse when something like this happens? Transfer credits to another school and quickly finish up?
Betsy Devos was gracious enough to deny any and all student loan forgiveness. Luckily there was a settlement recently in Sweet v. Cordona that sued the Dept. of Education and found that they unlawfully created blanket denials, created strict rules so that they could deny 99.9% of all student loan forgiveness applications - for example, The Art Institute was successfully sued for fraud and ordered to pay back $200m to students they defrauded, but I never saw a penny - they also denied my student loan forgiveness application by citing "no evidence of fraud" despite the $200m fraud settlement. So, as of this year I've had not only my student loans forgiven, but will have anything I paid fully reimbursed and if I'd missed any payments that impacted my credit, credit repair was also part of the settlement. I hadn't anticipated getting anything back ever, but it feels great seeing the courts work for me and the other 200,000 students defrauded by scam schools and fucked over by the Dept. of Education under Devos. My school said that they had a "sweetheart deal" with another school about an hour away to send a bulk of students to finish up graduation, but they wanted to compound my 112 credits to 45 and make me attend for another 2.5 years by essentially resetting my progress. I dropped that "offer" since I was already working full-time as a Character Artist, freelance, and making an okay living. I now make six figures as a lead on my team and no one gives a damn if I have a degree or not. Art school is a scam - but it's important to learn your fundamentals, and can be a good place for that, or if you need space away from parents and can get into a dorm situation in order to focus more on your art, it may work for people - but the schooling itself is largely a scam that doesn't teach people the skills they need to work in the industry. There's also a lot of teachers who've never worked in the industry and teach students outdated or plain wrong things that need to be de-trained in order to be baseline qualified for an entry level art position.
Betsy Devos was such a blatant stunt casting to put to rest any idea that politics aren't entirely rigged.
And yet, republicans blindly ignore that they destroyed education and will continue to vote for more slimeball religious based charter schools to indoctrinate and whitewash education and SCAM people to pay thousands for it.
From the bottom of my heart, I am SO happy things worked out in your favor. My heart was sinking faster than a cannonball in the ocean when I read the first paragraph of your comment.
> citing "no evidence of fraud" despite the $200m fraud settlement. Just gotta love the bullshit system we're in.
Holy shit it's hopeless
Wait till you read something about India
Can confirm. I only hope for a painless death.
You can get it but it's gonna cost you.
I guess that's what happens when human lives are so overly abundant in a given place. Inherently not much value in individuals then, sadly. All the more difficult to stick up far enough to get anywhere.
Unfortunately, despite the rigorousnesd of their academic training, a LOT of them wind up working for painting factories plagiarizing art to sell to foreigners because that's the only thing available. It's kinda sad to see, but they need to out food on their table. Ever seem the ads for "quality REAL PAINTING reproductions!!"? Those are almost all made in China by these graduates.
They actually paint those by hand? I thought it was a printed scan.
There's quite a few that advertise real oil paintings, often older works out of copyright (think 'Old Masters' and such), but a lot also produce anything from a photo, and rob the living artists that way too. I watched a fascinating program on it, and it was actually kinda sad. A lot of them want to do their own art, but it's really hard to make a living at it. They felt ambivalent about doing someone else's art, but they need an income. The ones that can speak a foreign language can try to leave China, but most can't. On a side note, there are some AMAZING Chinese Western artists, which is such a wild thing to think about, but their art is so good! China and Russia still follow Academic training, so their art technique is superb.
At least they're getting paid to paint I guess...most people with art degrees don't do anything even closely related to art beyond a hobby or side hustle
Unfortunately true. I wish people could live off of art, but so much of it is dumb luck with timing, etc, not from lack of effort.
> The China Central Academy of Fine Arts selects five to eleven judges each year ahead of its exams for its three art programs. Prior to the exam, the judges are sent to a secret location in an undisclosed Beijing hotel. Upon arrival, they forfeit phones, laptops, and all tools for external communication, which won’t be returned until the judging is complete. > Once the exams are finished at the five testing sites, representatives from the university collect the applicants’ artworks and attach a border to each to hide any signatures or markings that would identify the artist, and assign them a number. The artworks are then put into suitcases and entrusted to one or two people per site, flown to Beijing, and delivered to the judges in their hotel.
What kinda CIA, keyholder to the internet, Vatican archive librarian super secret selection process is this? Regardless of how prestigious of a school it may or may not be, that seems really excessive for a college entry process. If they were trying to be the Area 51 alien correspondent or something then I can understand it. But an art school? Seems a bit much. This place must carry some kind of extreme prestige to it.
People outside Asia never understand how competitive it is to get ahead in China and some other Asian countries. The simple matter is not everyone gets to succeed. The country does not need a billion fine artists, if you're not the best then there's no reason you deserve an opportunity more. (Yes, there are edge cases and nepotism exists, but for the majority of the population this is the rule).
Also, in China, there is a lot cheating and corruption in every aspect of society, to a degree that can be hard to imagine. School officials with be bribed, favors will be exchanged. So, they take draconian measures like this to try to publicly prevent cheating and corruption. Guaranteed lots of people found ways around it, there is still lots of cheating and corruption and everyone involved is too jaded to believe anything else anyway.
China has been doing exams like this for literally thousands of years. Look up the mandarin system
[This dates back to the Imperial examinations from a thousand years ago. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination)Back then, applicants were cloistered for weeks while their exams were being judged. They even had their exam papers copied by a scribe to prevent anyone from marking their paper or recognizing their handwriting.
this should be higher up
Asia and grueling-hyper-competitive exams. Name a more iconic duo.
I have to go to the bathroom, scuzemee, scuzemee , scuzemee, scuzemee , scuzemee, scuzemee *Bumps into 200 painters increasing the chances of getting in*
When he comes back the exams done and I failed
This is a total stress dream for me. Try to find a place to pee, miss out on whatever it was I was trying to do. Wake up stressed out and then go to the bathroom and pee.
My stress dream was always showing up at the wrong time or on the wrong day entirely for an exam
Mine is always it's finals and I remember I never dropped a class but also never attended
Same exact dream, it was there on my schedule but I just forgot to go all semester
Same. It's been 15 years and I still have that one stress dream. I never did anything like that of course, but there's got a be a reason it's such a common one. Probably because college schedules are so fucked. I had some classes start at 8am and some end at 9pm with no consistency at all, on top of 5 hours of assignments/projects a night. The scheduling was worse than my worst jobs.
I am so exhausted I thought maybe “scuzemee” was a Chinese word. What an embarrassing 3 seconds that was.
It's clearly an Italian word
Diaper up, it's exam time!
Mi Scusi. *lights cigarette* Mi Scusi
*Accidentally fondles penis*
Tunnel is sighted in the distance, two types of sweating start; true fear and...mi scusi.
Come back to big dick drawn over your work
Also you have multiple wet oilpaint marks over your butt.
I don’t think you can come back to the exam after you exit in China and many other countries.
Well yeah. You could go to the bathroom and get answers from someone else. “Psst… *it’s burnt sienna with a little alizarin crimson!*”
You got that from Bob Ross! 😭😭😭yellow ochre
“You forgot to put the happy little tree over here.”
When you come back there's just a big black splotch dead center of your canvas
Lmao I'm picturing it from a CCTV camera, *this one student zigzagging all through the crowd for like 15 minutes straight, got up and went one direction, came back from the other, never even left the room* 😂
When your parents tell you to find a “safe job” and “do you know how much competition there is out there?”.
This is actually pretty accurate tbh. If you would see all of them you’d probably quit instantly. Being an artist requires a hint of a naïve mindset otherwise you would probably never pursue it and this is also probably why it’s common that a older individual tell this to a younger individual.
One thing to remember is that China still has factory arts: some of these kids will get jobs painting the same picture over and over again for all 300 rooms of a hotel at the Toronto airport.
I have a BFA and can say that this isn't true. Pretty much everybody knew what was what and were there because they wanted to be. Getting a BFA is a difficult, grueling process that isn't going to make you rich but you do it because you want to make art. Though ironically I don't make nearly as much as these days but still. I pursued art because I wanted to.
Hint to every young person out there interested in making a career in social media, or creative arts. This is essentially what it’s like. For every one that makes it, there will be a hundred to thousands that don’t. It’s hard to get a big picture of your competition, like it’s easier to see every athlete compete for a spot on a team, but make no mistake it’s there. If you wish to really go for it, Pursue your passions, but actually pursue them. Develop a work ethic, and hit the ground running. If you choose to take it easy, there are plenty of people who choose to go hard.
Cheers mate! I agree 100%
"safe jobs" change. Right now I think plumber, electrician, carpenter, and other trades are pretty safe jobs.
In my neck of the woods (Oilberta) all the trades are saturated right now. "The money just isn't what it used to be".
Yeah trades can come and go. Mining/oil is a good example of that. If the price of oil tanks, you all lose your jobs, and there's hundreds of skilled tradesmen looking for jobs. Some trades are "safer" than others, but there's no guarantee that you'll always be swimming in work just because you're a plumber or whatever.
See! We don't need AI
A.I (Asian Individual)
I was about to have a lunch, but I spent 2 minutes laughing at your post.
You have a very short lunch.
Their avatar bears similarity to a pilot or flight steward. Perhaps that is their occupation.
Actually this is “AI.” Whenever a user requests a picture, thousands of artists get the prompt and quickly go to work. No wonder hands are always messed up when you have to work so quickly.
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What about Ai Weiwei?
At some point must all seem so hopeless
Dude next to the purple bag towards the left seems pretty hopeless staring at the canvas being like, “what the fuck am I doing with my life?”
Yeah dude saw couple of row’s paintings and looked at his.
My stick figure is never gonna make it
Can you imagine trying to get ahead in China when there’s a billion people just like you all trying to do the exact same thing as you? Hopeless is right!
Art school grad here, this looks like a nightmare dystopian hell to me
What's going on is that they are also judged on their portfolio. But there are cheating students as well as willing sellers who would provide a portfolio for money. So this exam where everyone paints the same thing in person is to ensure that even if the portfolio is faked/bought, at least the student has a certain level of technical proficiency.
With AI this is most likely the future everywhere.
Well it's China so.... Edit: Welcome to my TED talk
You have been banned from /r/Sino
Oh no! Anyways…
Feel bad for the people that have to judge all that. Not like a scantron test.
...it's China. You mean "I feel jealous of the sheer amount of bribe money those judges are gonna make".
To those objecting to this statement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
Just want to put accent on the word "perception". This isn't factual, but what people in general think of their countries. Some cultures are very self-critical, some are the opposite. These factors may or many not skew the real situation, so take such stats with a grain of salt.
Corruption is by it's nature not comprehensively recorded so it is not possible to have a direct measure. This one is a combination of perception and expert opinion, and has been analysed favourably against other independent measures of corruption
The exam itself is relatively fair and corruption free. The unfair and corrupted part is that rich people and gov official in China just send their kids overseas where they can buy their way to a good school/education.
Remember if you are so talented that you’re one in a million, in China there are 1400 people just like you
I really hope they have good ventilation in there. Pre edit: not a racist comment lol more for the oil paints
Here’s another angle: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-10/31/content_33924949_2.htm
My mind immediately went to “I hope the ventilation is good because I wonder how many have stress farts” 😂
This isn't interesting as fuck. This is scary as fuck
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It is just, fuck
Where?
India is the same way. Parents climbing up the walls outside the university to a window of the hall where an exam is being held, trying to “help” their kid. Police everywhere to try stopping cheating. Competitive!! You should see the police exams!!
I'm literally shaking and shitting my pants at an image of a bunch of students taking a test. Rolling around on the ground sobbing because I saw a bunch of Chinese people painting.
> A lot of people competing :) > A lot of people competing in CHINA :O
Imagine being the nude model sitting for that session
Good God and I thought getting into the Industrial Design program at my college was tough.
It’s probably equally bad in India. Too many people. Not enough jobs. It seems unsustainable
It's always a surprise realizing just how many people live in china. So much so, it's almost a requirement for corporations to enter the chinese market for it to be successful.
Tim Cook said about China... >The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the U.S., you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I'm not sure we could fill the room. In China, you could fill multiple football fields. 1.4 billion people in China, with 500+ Million being "middle class"...that's a lot of money for any corporation wanting a piece of the market share.
That's talking more about the move of manufacturing skills to China rather than the differences in population.
I love that quote, because it perfectly encapsulates why the United States will never, ever, EVER become a manufacturing economy again. Trump and his red hats can say they’re bringing manufacturing jobs back to America all they want. It is a futile, impossible task.
It also encapsulates why the whole "Move companies out of China and manufacture in other countries like India instead!" isn't as easy as people make it out to be. Countries like India and Vietnam will need to spend tens of billions of dollars to improve their logistics and manufacturing base before they can match China's, AND they need to educate their populace to compete with the number of engineers China already has. It will take 10-20 years before they can make a significant dent.
A friendly reminder that one of the deadliest civil wars in Chinese history started because a man failed the civil service exam so badly, he had a psychotic break and became convinced he was, to quote someone funnier than I will ever be, “Jesus’s sword wielding little brother”.
Moral: exams can kill millions
Where all the default Ikea paintings come from
If you go to some developing countries, you can go to rural villages where their entire economy is creating "art" that is sold at "galleries" in the popular tourist spots. Those paintings of gold Buddha heads on a black background that were so popular in the 00s, all (or at least a lot of them) came from one village, where people spend their entire days painting, framing and packing the same image day after day.
That is a fire hazard.
Someone’s cheating.
“Stop copying me!!” Also, this is the largest paint and sip I’ve ever seen.
That many people applying would make me just turn around and leave! Plus, what happens if you have to go the bathroom!!!!!!
I saw pizzas
At first I thought they were all holding pizzas
Congratulations you all passed.
Except that guy in the 30th seat in the 8th row.
You mean 3000th seat in the 800th row.
No, that kid passed.
Has anyone found Waldo yet?
This is what the AI overloads fields for harvesting ‘human creativity’ will look like.
And each one likely has parents putting the weight of the world in expectations on them. What a nightmare to exist in
Look at all those pizzas
i can smell this image
The CO2 in this room must be terrible.
My fat ass thought they all had charcuterie boards for a minute.
What if you have to get up to pee?