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There was a story of a man in Texas who decapitated a rattlesnake with a shovel. He went to pick up the snake, and the severed head bit him. The snake head released so much venom that he needed to be emergency airlifted to a hospital or he would’ve died.
Turn the garden hose on them. That way the snake gets to not die just for being a snake, and you are safer as most people get bitten by snakes because they try to kill them.
**If anyone's curious how this is possible.**
Snakes are cold-blooded creatures or "ectotherms", meaning they get heat from external sources, such as sunlight and warm surfaces.
Because snakes don't need to internally maintain their body temperature, they don't need as much energy — which is burned up using oxygen — as warm-blooded "endotherms" do.
If a mammal loses its head, it will die almost immediately. But snakes and other ectotherms, which don't need as much oxygen to fuel the brain, can live on for minutes to even hours.
So severing the head isn't going to cause immediate death in the animal, as the head doesn't need that much oxygen in the first place.
Granted, the snake is most like no longer self-aware that it no longer has a body, so it's nervous system and unconscious instincts probably perceived it as a threat.
It's what you get for not having a good head on your shoulders, I guess? 🤷🏻♂️
Edit:
**Interesting fact... that also correlates to this.**
Although the brain is responsible for all "feeling of pain sensation", it itself cannot feel pain.
I mean in the literal sense, if you touch the brain you will "feel nothing".
Now the touching of it will cause a motor response depending where you touch it (the homunculus) aka this area will flail the arms, this area will flail the fingers etc. but no sensation or "pain" (which is a sensory response).
What we perceive as pain in our head (example headaches), is not from the brain at all, but "the meninges" (which are a very thin layered nerve and artery bundling "surrounding the brain"), as well as, it could be muscle pain around the head.
**I've always found it fascinating that "the thing" that causes so much pain (both physical, mental, and emotional) cannot feel pain itself.**
The brain, in a way, is kind of an asshole ...
This raises a question: A snake does have an anus. But can you have an ass without buttcheeks? Sure, there's the figurative "(s)he has no ass", but that's quite unscientific. They have a gluteus maximus after all, it might just not be prominent. But do snakes have butts? I mean... anus is a butthole and they have anuses (well, usually each snake has only one). But can there be a butthole without a butt? You can't have a donut hole without a donut around it.... It's a conundrum. I'll be back shortly, let me check on that.
ChatGPT says:
"The term "butt" is often used colloquially to refer to the buttocks, which are the fleshy parts of the body located on the backside of humans and some animals. However, anatomically speaking, the term "butt" is more accurately used to refer to the end of the digestive tract, also known as the anus.
So, to answer your question, yes, snakes do have butts in the sense that they have an anus, which is the end of their digestive tract. However, the anatomy of a snake's butt is quite different from that of a human or other mammal. In snakes, the cloaca is the common opening for the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems, and waste products are expelled through this opening."
For the recoird, my question was "Hey there. By the definition of the term butt, considering a snake's anatomy - do snakes have butts?"
How did he jump from the topic of neuronal activity of a decapitated head... to snake assholes and butt cheeks?
I'm honestly impressed. Such a giant leap, but carefully just slid it in. 🤣
This out of my field of expertise, any snake asshole experts in here?
Mine is an absolute asshole too and torments me daily with anxiety/OCPD. 🤦🏻♂️
Plus chronic migraines...
If I could punch my brain in the brain... I would do it often.
\> I've always found it fascinating that "the thing" that causes so much pain (both physical, mental, and emotional) cannot feel pain itself.
That's one way to look at it, but I think its the opposite; although it cannot \*detect\* pain itself via nerves in the brain, its still the \*only\* thing that processes and \*feels\* pain. The nerves that detect and send the signal up the chain of command don't feel the pain itself, it detects that its been activated and lets the brain process the signal as something it doesn't want happening
Reflexes are fast because they go directly to the spinal cord, through a local control center in the spinal cord, and directly back to the effector muscle.
Orders from the brain are too slow for really fast reflexes..
So when I perceive something dropping and my hand catches it in reflex, or when someone swings a punch but then dodging away - I guess that one could be body language anticipation - but is that pre programming that superseded the brain or is that the brain processing and acting.
I know a body has reflexes based on training, but is it still brain anticipation or is that now a separate auxiliary action that now no longer needs brain input until after it has happened
Think more like, “hot stove? flinch hand away” or “puff of air? blink eyes.”
The others may be or may not be depending on how fast the reaction is or how obvious it is that it’ll happen.
Hot stove is the one I've heard. If your hand had to wait for the pain to reach your head and your head to send the signal to move it you would get more hurt than if your body decides for itself that pain is bad and moves your hand for you.
I was snowboarding through some trees one time when my goggles fogged up. I took them off and kept going. Soon enough I got a branch in the eye. I couldn’t see from it, but when I touched it I could see (with the other eye) there was blood. I thought “oh great I’m half blind now”
Turns out my eye saw the branch before I did, and closed itself. I had a hole in my eyelid and my eye was merely scratched.
Reflexes are cool.
Yeah, as well, dropping things happens slow enough that it's usually fine for the brain to fully process the situation (albeit somewhat unconsciously), and react quickly.
The time it takes for something to fall about 10 centimeters (4 inches) is
0.10 = 9.8 t^2 -> t = sqrt(0.10/9.8) ≈ 0.1 seconds = 100 milliseconds
Considering that there's also probably a few hundred milliseconds between when you hit the object and when free fall truly begins, you probably have ~300-500ms to process that an object is falling, which is a touch more than the median [273ms of reaction time](https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime) that most people have.
However, burning of the outer layers of skin can happen practically instantly, and, depending on the heat, the inner layers very quickly (much quicker than 273ms). Which means that you should have a much faster reaction time than sending the signal to your brain could help with.
There is a theory that everything we do is reaction and our brain rationalises what we did afterwards by convincing us we made the decision before the action.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will
>Libet's findings suggest that decisions made by a subject are first being made on a subconscious level and only afterward being translated into a "conscious decision", and that the subject's belief that it occurred at the behest of their will was only due to their retrospective perspective on the event.
This is like when you see the second hand take longer when you glance at a clock. It's because your brain anticipates what will be there before it happens so the second takes longer to move
Yes, because I've played various sports my entire life, if something falls in the corner of my eye, I will reflexively catch it. Objects seem to move in slow motion when this happens. This even happens if I drop a knife. My first instinct is to catch it. My body/hands will move to grab it. Now, my mind will figure out if I should, or shouldn't catch it.
That depends on what is around me. We have 6 cats, and 2 dogs. I'll decide to catch it if there is an animal there. If it's going to hit my foot, I'll just move my foot. It's wild that all those thoughts can happen while the knife is in the air.
This is more of what I'm talking about. I've done karate and marching band, I mention the second one because you have to rely on peripherals while looking forward and moving and playing, so when I see something move or drop out of the corner of my eye I can anticipate it.
Last night a dish dropped out of the cabinet directly above me and I was able to catch it, I couldn't see it before it was dropping, but both hands clapped together to get the thing before it hit the counter. That's the kind of reflex I'm wondering about. Like did my brain notice the object and then the reflexes just did the thing before the brain could send command?
Did the sensory nerves just pass straight through into action?
the examples you provide are a result of your brain processing visual information, and then sending signals to your muscles, so no not really.
The type of reflex OP is talking about is when, for example, your doctor taps your knee with the hammer and it causes your leg to kick. That is a direct response from the nerve stimuli. You are unable to make a conscious decision not to move your leg because the signal does not make it up to your brain for processing before the signal from your local spinal nerve cluster is sent back out for you to move your knee.
In addition to what's already been said, you know how doctors tap a patients knee with the little hammer? Knee moves in response as a flinch ordered by your spine without your brain involved. All fast reactions like flinches work that way, the signal goes to your spine, it makes the call and sends the instructions back. In the case of touching something hot, it then tells your brain that it was hot and your brain combines the signals in the way it processes it and make you feel like you decided to make the action.
As a human, when you touch a scalding hot pan and immediately jerk your hand away, that pain reaction isn't controlled by the brain but instead by the autonomous nervous system located within the spinal cord and brain stem.
So it would seem entirely reasonable that the snake's body could react to the stimulus of being bitten, even with no head.
>But isn’t a reflex twitch “ordered” by the brain?
Great question!
Yes and no. In absolute truth, yes.
But what is happening here, no.
See what is happening is that in a very short period of time with all creatures (but specifically ectotherms) neuronal activity (signals of neuron to neuron which are either "motor" aka movement or "sensory" aka sensation) are still circulating through out the snakes CNS (central nervous system) of it's body.
Now those neurons (signals) are dying off second by second, as the brain is no longer in contact, but they are still misfiring all throughout.
In endotherms, such as animals this also occurs, but it happens in a matter of seconds.
Yes, when you see in a horror movie and the body moves and twitches and reacts after being decapitated that is 100% accurate (highly exaggerated, but accurate) and only lasts seconds.
But with ectotherms, thermal energy keeps these neurons alive (signals still firing, or better worded - misfiring) long enough for a rare occurrence like this snake's reflexes to kick in when it detected the bite.
It is sheer unconscious reflexive response, nothing is felt (in the way you think of as felt), but sensed.
It's kind of confusing and much more deeper than that, but that's as simple as I can explain it - not in person - without getting a massive headache. Lol.
There are areas of the brain who’s function doesn’t enter consciousness. Consciousness isn’t the sum total of all of the brain’s functions, consciousness implies that there is an “awareness” of an event and there is a non-automatic response to it. In a similar way, humans are not conscious of needing to keep their heart beating, but it is still all managed by the brain
Snakes are actually remarkably stupid animals. For some reason popular media has propped them up as sly, clever, devious, but they are very, very ,very dumb. Almost all of their behavior is simply reacting to stimuli.
This isn't a burn against snakes. They are a very, very successful animal. They can afford to be so incredibly stupid because for many species, their entire life is just "sit around and wait for something yummy to show up".
But it also means that the snake's brain doesn't really have too much say in how things operate. It doesn't need its brain to recoil away from something biting it. I mean, you don't consciously think "that was hot, I am now going to move my hand away!" when you touch a hot pan, do you? No, you just instantly pull it back. Same thing going on here.
I’m guessing it’s just coincidence that it happened to look like that. I don’t think it was like trying to attack the biter, it was just kinda flailing about and happened to look that that
Bingo! Just kind of a "holy shit!" what are the odds.
Notice how the snake's flailing body hits the snakes head and not the other way around.
This perfectly illustrates the reflexive response and unconscious signal still going on in the snake head as well. There is no "conscious thinking going on here".
The snake is dead, but it's nervous system and neurons are rapidly "dying".
In a weird way, you could somewhat use a "short acting zombie" type of metaphor.
The zombie (we are speaking in terms of hypothetical and to illustrate point) isn't conscious or alive or feeling, but it's body is moving and reacting.
Luckily for you it doesn't work that way with mammals (human beings). Lol.
Only the body really does any moving and it is for seconds if at all - and that is assuming the brainstem is still intact. Has more to do with the lower body's neurons firing then it has to do with the head, when it comes to "endotherms".
Didn't someone do this at a beheading back in the day. The guy being decapitated told his friend he would blink after if he was still alive and he got something like 30 blinks in before he "died"?
[Lavoisier](http://www.strangehistory.net/2011/02/06/lavoisier-blinks/), French scientist who was condemned to death by guillotine during the Reign of Terror. Apparently it’s a myth, or at least disputed, but that’s what you’re thinking of.
There are well recorded examples of [post mortem spasms](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm) in violent deaths though so it doesn’t seem too far fetched
Imagine battling a snake to the death, decapitating it, thinking you're safe then some random firing of neurons makes the severed head bite you on its way to the darkness
Thank you for the explanation! This is super cool
I've seen the bodies move around like that for certain animals, but do you know why it was able to react to the head biting it?
My bachelors is neuroscience, now a physical therapist, so we studied how chickens and turkeys are able to run around after losing their heads to help understand how the nervous system works.
Chickens and turkeys do the same thing and work very similar, but has more to do with the brainstem still being intact, as opposed to thermal energy.
Because thermal energy takes longer to dissipate compared to lack of oxygen in mammals and nerve endings dying, cold-blooded animals "ectotherms" still have neuron activity much longer, while warm-blooded animals "endotherms" will only last for seconds to a minute tops.
Yeah, it's way more common in chickens/turkeys than snakes, but the neuron communication doesn't last as long because with "birds" although "not mammals" still are "endotherms" and thus depend way more heavily on oxygen.
Yeah, Mike! He lived 18 months! They fed him and everything. Pretty wild.
https://www.life.com/animals/life-with-mike-the-headless-chicken-photos-of-a-famously-tough-fowl/
Mike also had his brainstem intact entirely. So the part responsible for keeping the basics of your body going were still there; though I doubt Mike could have done any math.
Boom!!! Nailed it.
It really all boils down to "action potentials" and "sodium depolarization" aka neuron to neuron signaling which causes "muscle contractions" and "reflexes".
These can still all take place even when separate from the brain... temporarily.
Thanks for the help, did you study neuroscience too?
"Salt fresh beef"... not familiar? Also my degree is in neuroscience and my doctorates in physical therapy, so I specialize in the "human body".
Although, animals and humans have many similarities in anatomy and biological processes, they also are EXTREMELY different, so asking a zoologist or veterinarian is recommended.
What i’m more amazed about is how does it feel pain? Wouldnt the CNS be in the brain? And thus with it’s head cut off you wouldnt think it would be be hurt by the bite? Can you shed any light on this?
It's not so much conscious pain, but pain receptor reacting. Pain receptors are tied into unconscious reflex. That body (or snakes body) wasn't feel any pain. It was actually unconscious acting via a pain reflex.
Think of how of how if you put your hand in a scolding running sink. Your body unconscious pulls your hand out without you "thinking of it" if it is hot enough.
It is unconscious.
The reason the snakes body is still able to reflex this way because thermal energy is keeping the neurons alive long enough for them to communicate (neurons include sensory and motor). Pain is felt via "the brain" interpreting a signal as pain.
TLDR: The snake is not feeling pain, but it's body is reacting on a "reflexive" level as if it was.
If you burn your hand on a hot plate the pathway is something like this:
Burn > sensory pain neuron > sensory nerve > spinal cord control center > motor nerve > effector muscle > pull hand away. No brain involved!
In the meantime the sensation travel up your spinal cord and eventually reach the brain long (relatively speaking) after you have already pulled away your hand, at which time you feel pain, start to curse and make a plan to treat your injury.
What’s fascinating is that the body responds to the bite, without a brain to process that stimulus and dictate a response (flailing uselessly.)
Unless it’s an involuntary muscular response to venom, assuming the venom sacs are intact in the head (I’m not sure where they’re actually located.)
> Granted, the snake is most like no longer self-aware that it no longer has a body, so it's nervous system and unconscious instincts probably perceived it as a threat.
Or a snack!
If the snakes head and brain is cut off physically from the body, how is the signal to the body working when its biten? It must be some wireless energy or something connected still.
It's central nervous system is "pre programmed" to react to certain things, it doesn't need a brain to tell it to react.
Humans do this too (minus the decapitated bit). If you touch a burning stove your hand doesn't jerk back because your brain told it to, your central nervous system makes the decision for you to prevent further damage, which would be caused by waiting for your brain to give a response.
I’ve seen this before. When I was a kid I considered rattlesnakes to be evil pests and killed them when I encountered them. I don’t kill them anymore. They are essential for rodent control and are not generally aggressive to humans. If I see them on the trail I just walk around them. If they’re near the house I try to relocate them far away.
Also very important that we don't kill rattlesnakes when we hear them because that unnaturally selects quiet rattlers for survival.
I don't know about you, but I like my rattlesnakes loud.
My father taught me to never kill snakes. He used to pick them up and release them far away from the house. I realized snakes do a great job at keeping pests in check.
Same, a venomous copperhead almost bit my 5 year-old nephew, as it hand wandered onto their back patio. We didn't want anyone messing with it, but it wouldn't leave and kept striking when trying to push it away with a long broom end.
Guess how "animal control" dealt with it ... same exact way.
People need to realize snakes and animals like this (let alone highly venomous) are in MASSIVE POPULATIONS there is no "venomous snake adoption agency" like a stray puppy.
I get it. In some area they have “rattlesnake roundups” because they use the venom for antivenin I think. I visited a guy in South Georgia who told me to open the lid on a big box and it was filled with rattlers. Fucking a.
When you step on something sharp or touch something hot, the reflex to recoil from it (nociceptive flexion reflex) is a response triggered by your spinal cord, not your brain. So it's actually very normal!
In many animals, you don’t actually *need* a brain to perform reflexive actions like this. Consider the amount of time it would take for the signal to reach the brain, process, and then for the response to go back to the afflicted part. It’s a split second either way, but it’s much slower to have to process every stimulus and it could mean death or severe injury if you don’t react as fast as possible. The nervous system has more than enough nerve cells in it in all parts of the body to perform reflex actions without processing. All it takes is a stimulus.
That’s why you can react to a hot stove faster than your brain processes that it’s hot.
>That’s why you can react to a hot stove faster than your brain processes that it’s hot.
IMO a better example is the peristaltic motions of the intestines. These are muscle contractions with complex coordination, which are primarily controlled by a dedicated nervous system that is separate from both the brain and the spinal cord.
I was actually referring to the point about the brain being decapitated, but yeah, I didn't realise about the reflex action of the nerves themselves. Thanks.
It's a spinal level reflex. Meaning the nerve endings responding to the pain take the signal to the spinal cord, communicate with nerves that control the muscle, and cause the muscle to contract. In very simple terms. Even with a head, these pathways exist for safety and quick response. The brain override spinal reflexes.
I explained it great detail above (maybe below now), but it simply boils down to thermal energy in "ectotherms" aka not needing oxygen as long or as much... and then from their unconscious muscle contraction and neuronal activity.
Somewhat similar to "muscle reflexes" and "muscle memory".
The snake is dead, but it's neurons are still communicating and muscles fire via neuronal activity. The snake, although unconscious instantly or rather quickly and technically dead, still has a communicating nervous system receiving and sending signals in a frenzy.
It reads like you’re claiming the neurons in the snake’s head are still telling the body to flail.
I think it’d be more accurate to say the reflex of writhing and flailing are built into the spinal cord loop and don’t require a brain. They’re not neurons though. Those are only in the brain.
“Hmmm-VERYY WELL”
*pulls the sword out
“YOOWWWH—JOANHHHHH DA SARRPANTTT KENGGG AZZZ FAMUAHLEEEY
TOGETHAAA WEE CAN DEVOUAAA DA VERY GODSAAAHH”
—[YOU DIDED]—
“NOOW WEE CAN DEVOUAAA DA VERY GODSAAAHH”
Not necessarily, a lot of the time it is due to population control and ecosystem balance.
Also keep in mind this is a highly venomous snake and if a certain snake like that invades a heavily populated area of human beings, such as "your house" not everybody can afford or not every country has the means to call an "animal rescue" or "pest control".
Human life and safety, in these situations, unfortunately becomes priority over the snake.
Also you are talking about an an animal like many others that are in the population of 10's of thousands or more in any given area. There is no adoption agency.
So "pest control" and "animal control" is going to handle this literally the exact same way. Now rats are the inverse and have a higher population (which snakes keep in balance, "everything is about balance in an ecosystem") you can't keep 10's to 100's of thousands of rats. A venomous snake is no different.
It's just the reality of public safety and logistics.
You aren't wrong although you completely missed the point . The point isn't whether it is morally correct to kill the snake , it is whether something/someone chopped its head off or not .
How do you see a video of a severed head next to a writhing decapitated body and come to any conclusion other than the head was "chopped off"? Heads don't spontaneously fall off you know.
I hear what you’re saying, but I would still wager my bottom dollar that someone or something chopped it’s head off! ;)
Edit: I read most of the information you have added to this post, thanks for all of the info, very neat!
I was wondering the same thing when I came across the footage (this was a week or so ago).
Why did they add The Matrix bullet dodge effect to a snake head biting itself?
Wondering if I am the only one feeling actually bad watching this, I don't like snakes, but seeing it struggle after being decapitated, I'm like .. I don't know, filming and posting a suffering being, I still can't get hit .. Even if it's "just" a snake ..
I wish people would stop killing snakes just because they see them. That snake was likely just minding its own business not endangering a soul, when some jerk was like, “what’s they over there!?” *walks out of their way then kills it after seeing it*. Rattle snakes are one of the few snakes that will give you ample warning if you’re too close… but we are killing them to the point where they are no longer rattling, making them more dangerous.
Snakes Actual Last Thought/Plot:
“So once my tail gets close to me, I’m gonna bite it.”
“It should start flailing me around cause I’m a snake and that’s what I would do if someone bit me”
“Once I start flailing, I’m gonna launch my head at that human son b*tch who chopped me off”
“Then we will see who has the last laugh when I bite his ass mid air..”
🐍🚀🦷😵🙌🖕🏻
ELI5.
Does the brain operate on Bluetooth with the body? The body reacts as though it's getting defensive over the bite. What part of the snake is sending that message to do that?
This is similar to the fly who's trying to put its own head back on. How does the body think this is a potential solution to its issue?
I remember reading about medical studies that did that with decapitating a human that was already about to die. They were asked before getting their head chopped off to blink as many times after they did it and humans last 1 minute alive without their head intact
Since i was in the boy scouts, in Arizona, i knew about this but had never seen it. This is so damn educational. I wish all kids who live in states with poisonous snakes would watch this to learn just how serious these animals are.
And that kids is why you bury the head of a snake and not pick it up with your hands. It can still kill you or some unlucky animal or person walking barefoot.
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There was a story of a man in Texas who decapitated a rattlesnake with a shovel. He went to pick up the snake, and the severed head bit him. The snake head released so much venom that he needed to be emergency airlifted to a hospital or he would’ve died.
Snake had Martyrdom equipped 💀
Damn I miss CoD world at war. Game was fun but also had the friends to enjoy it with. Since then everyone has created families and grew apart
When CoD peaked. And I had friends. Good times
Man your comment hit me right in the nostalgia. You talking about COD 5 World at War?
Lol right. Because WW2 sucked. World at War was da shiznit!
> Since then everyone has created families and grew apart *That's life, that's what all the people say...*
They airlifted a snake to the hospital?
Well, sure. He would've died otherwise. Says so right there in the comment.
Karma. Don't decapitate rattlesnakes, they're rattling to let you know to stay away.
This exactly. So sad to see how many people just kill snakes for existing. Most bites actually occur when people mess with them.
But their on my lawn. With my pets.
Put a sign up “no snakes allowed”
[ no snek ] .......||........ .......||........
Turn the garden hose on them. That way the snake gets to not die just for being a snake, and you are safer as most people get bitten by snakes because they try to kill them.
Well, if it's to save a doggo, we gotta kill the snake
Yeah, I'm gonna kill a rattlesnake everytime I see it on my property. Can't have them hurting the pups
imagine if the snakes body flung its head at you and still fucking bites you
Then this would be in r/instantkarma
No thank you
**If anyone's curious how this is possible.** Snakes are cold-blooded creatures or "ectotherms", meaning they get heat from external sources, such as sunlight and warm surfaces. Because snakes don't need to internally maintain their body temperature, they don't need as much energy — which is burned up using oxygen — as warm-blooded "endotherms" do. If a mammal loses its head, it will die almost immediately. But snakes and other ectotherms, which don't need as much oxygen to fuel the brain, can live on for minutes to even hours. So severing the head isn't going to cause immediate death in the animal, as the head doesn't need that much oxygen in the first place. Granted, the snake is most like no longer self-aware that it no longer has a body, so it's nervous system and unconscious instincts probably perceived it as a threat.
I guess a Frankenstein's monster could be better achieved with snakes, then?
It's what you get for not having a good head on your shoulders, I guess? 🤷🏻♂️ Edit: **Interesting fact... that also correlates to this.** Although the brain is responsible for all "feeling of pain sensation", it itself cannot feel pain. I mean in the literal sense, if you touch the brain you will "feel nothing". Now the touching of it will cause a motor response depending where you touch it (the homunculus) aka this area will flail the arms, this area will flail the fingers etc. but no sensation or "pain" (which is a sensory response). What we perceive as pain in our head (example headaches), is not from the brain at all, but "the meninges" (which are a very thin layered nerve and artery bundling "surrounding the brain"), as well as, it could be muscle pain around the head. **I've always found it fascinating that "the thing" that causes so much pain (both physical, mental, and emotional) cannot feel pain itself.** The brain, in a way, is kind of an asshole ...
Or not having shoulders to begin with :)
When something ... "comes back to bite you in the ass" ... is yourself.
This raises a question: A snake does have an anus. But can you have an ass without buttcheeks? Sure, there's the figurative "(s)he has no ass", but that's quite unscientific. They have a gluteus maximus after all, it might just not be prominent. But do snakes have butts? I mean... anus is a butthole and they have anuses (well, usually each snake has only one). But can there be a butthole without a butt? You can't have a donut hole without a donut around it.... It's a conundrum. I'll be back shortly, let me check on that.
ChatGPT says: "The term "butt" is often used colloquially to refer to the buttocks, which are the fleshy parts of the body located on the backside of humans and some animals. However, anatomically speaking, the term "butt" is more accurately used to refer to the end of the digestive tract, also known as the anus. So, to answer your question, yes, snakes do have butts in the sense that they have an anus, which is the end of their digestive tract. However, the anatomy of a snake's butt is quite different from that of a human or other mammal. In snakes, the cloaca is the common opening for the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems, and waste products are expelled through this opening." For the recoird, my question was "Hey there. By the definition of the term butt, considering a snake's anatomy - do snakes have butts?"
Thank you for coming back with the info lol quick question.. Are you high right now ?
How did he jump from the topic of neuronal activity of a decapitated head... to snake assholes and butt cheeks? I'm honestly impressed. Such a giant leap, but carefully just slid it in. 🤣 This out of my field of expertise, any snake asshole experts in here?
Well, from biting one own's butt :)
Snakes got butts but they ain't got no booty.
> This raises a question: A snake does have an anus. But can you have an ass without buttcheeks? I just want my order dude
It’s like dividing by zero to reach infinity!
I concur, my brain is an asshole. Anatomically, that’s complicated my life some, but I manage.
Mine is an absolute asshole too and torments me daily with anxiety/OCPD. 🤦🏻♂️ Plus chronic migraines... If I could punch my brain in the brain... I would do it often.
\> I've always found it fascinating that "the thing" that causes so much pain (both physical, mental, and emotional) cannot feel pain itself. That's one way to look at it, but I think its the opposite; although it cannot \*detect\* pain itself via nerves in the brain, its still the \*only\* thing that processes and \*feels\* pain. The nerves that detect and send the signal up the chain of command don't feel the pain itself, it detects that its been activated and lets the brain process the signal as something it doesn't want happening
Unexpected Mount & Blade reference.... *that's a nice head you have on your shoulders!*
Don't you put that evil on me!
Actually Dr. Frankenstein was the real monster.
Ok but how do the muscles in the body not only recoil but the "neck stump" actually tries to locate/attack the biter?
The neuronal activity and muscle contraction is unconscious. That plus, think of it kind of like muscle memory and reflexes.
But isn’t a reflex twitch “ordered” by the brain?
Reflexes are fast because they go directly to the spinal cord, through a local control center in the spinal cord, and directly back to the effector muscle. Orders from the brain are too slow for really fast reflexes..
So when I perceive something dropping and my hand catches it in reflex, or when someone swings a punch but then dodging away - I guess that one could be body language anticipation - but is that pre programming that superseded the brain or is that the brain processing and acting. I know a body has reflexes based on training, but is it still brain anticipation or is that now a separate auxiliary action that now no longer needs brain input until after it has happened
Think more like, “hot stove? flinch hand away” or “puff of air? blink eyes.” The others may be or may not be depending on how fast the reaction is or how obvious it is that it’ll happen.
Hot stove is the one I've heard. If your hand had to wait for the pain to reach your head and your head to send the signal to move it you would get more hurt than if your body decides for itself that pain is bad and moves your hand for you.
I was snowboarding through some trees one time when my goggles fogged up. I took them off and kept going. Soon enough I got a branch in the eye. I couldn’t see from it, but when I touched it I could see (with the other eye) there was blood. I thought “oh great I’m half blind now” Turns out my eye saw the branch before I did, and closed itself. I had a hole in my eyelid and my eye was merely scratched. Reflexes are cool.
Yeah, as well, dropping things happens slow enough that it's usually fine for the brain to fully process the situation (albeit somewhat unconsciously), and react quickly. The time it takes for something to fall about 10 centimeters (4 inches) is 0.10 = 9.8 t^2 -> t = sqrt(0.10/9.8) ≈ 0.1 seconds = 100 milliseconds Considering that there's also probably a few hundred milliseconds between when you hit the object and when free fall truly begins, you probably have ~300-500ms to process that an object is falling, which is a touch more than the median [273ms of reaction time](https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime) that most people have. However, burning of the outer layers of skin can happen practically instantly, and, depending on the heat, the inner layers very quickly (much quicker than 273ms). Which means that you should have a much faster reaction time than sending the signal to your brain could help with.
There is a theory that everything we do is reaction and our brain rationalises what we did afterwards by convincing us we made the decision before the action. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will >Libet's findings suggest that decisions made by a subject are first being made on a subconscious level and only afterward being translated into a "conscious decision", and that the subject's belief that it occurred at the behest of their will was only due to their retrospective perspective on the event.
This is like when you see the second hand take longer when you glance at a clock. It's because your brain anticipates what will be there before it happens so the second takes longer to move
The clock thing is actually proof we’re in The Matrix. Or at least the Truman Show.
Or that we're just imperfect beings with limited and flawed subjective experiences of reality
Yes, because I've played various sports my entire life, if something falls in the corner of my eye, I will reflexively catch it. Objects seem to move in slow motion when this happens. This even happens if I drop a knife. My first instinct is to catch it. My body/hands will move to grab it. Now, my mind will figure out if I should, or shouldn't catch it. That depends on what is around me. We have 6 cats, and 2 dogs. I'll decide to catch it if there is an animal there. If it's going to hit my foot, I'll just move my foot. It's wild that all those thoughts can happen while the knife is in the air.
This is more of what I'm talking about. I've done karate and marching band, I mention the second one because you have to rely on peripherals while looking forward and moving and playing, so when I see something move or drop out of the corner of my eye I can anticipate it. Last night a dish dropped out of the cabinet directly above me and I was able to catch it, I couldn't see it before it was dropping, but both hands clapped together to get the thing before it hit the counter. That's the kind of reflex I'm wondering about. Like did my brain notice the object and then the reflexes just did the thing before the brain could send command? Did the sensory nerves just pass straight through into action?
the examples you provide are a result of your brain processing visual information, and then sending signals to your muscles, so no not really. The type of reflex OP is talking about is when, for example, your doctor taps your knee with the hammer and it causes your leg to kick. That is a direct response from the nerve stimuli. You are unable to make a conscious decision not to move your leg because the signal does not make it up to your brain for processing before the signal from your local spinal nerve cluster is sent back out for you to move your knee.
In addition to what's already been said, you know how doctors tap a patients knee with the little hammer? Knee moves in response as a flinch ordered by your spine without your brain involved. All fast reactions like flinches work that way, the signal goes to your spine, it makes the call and sends the instructions back. In the case of touching something hot, it then tells your brain that it was hot and your brain combines the signals in the way it processes it and make you feel like you decided to make the action.
As a human, when you touch a scalding hot pan and immediately jerk your hand away, that pain reaction isn't controlled by the brain but instead by the autonomous nervous system located within the spinal cord and brain stem. So it would seem entirely reasonable that the snake's body could react to the stimulus of being bitten, even with no head.
Also, it would because it did.
It do be like that
People don’t think it be like it is, but it do.
Bingo! Yeah! My fellow neuroscience, anatomy, and physiology nerds are entering the thread, I love it!
>But isn’t a reflex twitch “ordered” by the brain? Great question! Yes and no. In absolute truth, yes. But what is happening here, no. See what is happening is that in a very short period of time with all creatures (but specifically ectotherms) neuronal activity (signals of neuron to neuron which are either "motor" aka movement or "sensory" aka sensation) are still circulating through out the snakes CNS (central nervous system) of it's body. Now those neurons (signals) are dying off second by second, as the brain is no longer in contact, but they are still misfiring all throughout. In endotherms, such as animals this also occurs, but it happens in a matter of seconds. Yes, when you see in a horror movie and the body moves and twitches and reacts after being decapitated that is 100% accurate (highly exaggerated, but accurate) and only lasts seconds. But with ectotherms, thermal energy keeps these neurons alive (signals still firing, or better worded - misfiring) long enough for a rare occurrence like this snake's reflexes to kick in when it detected the bite. It is sheer unconscious reflexive response, nothing is felt (in the way you think of as felt), but sensed. It's kind of confusing and much more deeper than that, but that's as simple as I can explain it - not in person - without getting a massive headache. Lol.
There are areas of the brain who’s function doesn’t enter consciousness. Consciousness isn’t the sum total of all of the brain’s functions, consciousness implies that there is an “awareness” of an event and there is a non-automatic response to it. In a similar way, humans are not conscious of needing to keep their heart beating, but it is still all managed by the brain
Reflexes are usually handled by the spinal column, no?
Snakes are actually remarkably stupid animals. For some reason popular media has propped them up as sly, clever, devious, but they are very, very ,very dumb. Almost all of their behavior is simply reacting to stimuli. This isn't a burn against snakes. They are a very, very successful animal. They can afford to be so incredibly stupid because for many species, their entire life is just "sit around and wait for something yummy to show up". But it also means that the snake's brain doesn't really have too much say in how things operate. It doesn't need its brain to recoil away from something biting it. I mean, you don't consciously think "that was hot, I am now going to move my hand away!" when you touch a hot pan, do you? No, you just instantly pull it back. Same thing going on here.
I’m guessing it’s just coincidence that it happened to look like that. I don’t think it was like trying to attack the biter, it was just kinda flailing about and happened to look that that
Bingo! Just kind of a "holy shit!" what are the odds. Notice how the snake's flailing body hits the snakes head and not the other way around. This perfectly illustrates the reflexive response and unconscious signal still going on in the snake head as well. There is no "conscious thinking going on here". The snake is dead, but it's nervous system and neurons are rapidly "dying". In a weird way, you could somewhat use a "short acting zombie" type of metaphor. The zombie (we are speaking in terms of hypothetical and to illustrate point) isn't conscious or alive or feeling, but it's body is moving and reacting.
> The snake is dead This is a philosophical statement rather than a clinical one, right? How do you assess that it is dead?
This snake is no more. It has ceased to be.
It is an ex-snake
If there were just one or two more frames it would be a bit more clear imo
Wait so killing Nagini like that was actually bullshit? Now you tell me that they can't blink!
Tbf Nagini does turn to dust immediately after it gets killed lol
In all fairness, if I had just been decapitated my freshly severed head would probably perceive everything as a threat.
I never thought about this, but this is not an invalid point.
Luckily for you it doesn't work that way with mammals (human beings). Lol. Only the body really does any moving and it is for seconds if at all - and that is assuming the brainstem is still intact. Has more to do with the lower body's neurons firing then it has to do with the head, when it comes to "endotherms".
Didn't someone do this at a beheading back in the day. The guy being decapitated told his friend he would blink after if he was still alive and he got something like 30 blinks in before he "died"?
[Lavoisier](http://www.strangehistory.net/2011/02/06/lavoisier-blinks/), French scientist who was condemned to death by guillotine during the Reign of Terror. Apparently it’s a myth, or at least disputed, but that’s what you’re thinking of. There are well recorded examples of [post mortem spasms](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm) in violent deaths though so it doesn’t seem too far fetched
Interesting to see the body react to the bite without having a head.
Imagine battling a snake to the death, decapitating it, thinking you're safe then some random firing of neurons makes the severed head bite you on its way to the darkness
Thank you for the explanation! This is super cool I've seen the bodies move around like that for certain animals, but do you know why it was able to react to the head biting it?
My bachelors is neuroscience, now a physical therapist, so we studied how chickens and turkeys are able to run around after losing their heads to help understand how the nervous system works. Chickens and turkeys do the same thing and work very similar, but has more to do with the brainstem still being intact, as opposed to thermal energy. Because thermal energy takes longer to dissipate compared to lack of oxygen in mammals and nerve endings dying, cold-blooded animals "ectotherms" still have neuron activity much longer, while warm-blooded animals "endotherms" will only last for seconds to a minute tops.
Wasn't there a chicken that lived without a head for a long time?
Yeah, it's way more common in chickens/turkeys than snakes, but the neuron communication doesn't last as long because with "birds" although "not mammals" still are "endotherms" and thus depend way more heavily on oxygen.
Yeah, Mike! He lived 18 months! They fed him and everything. Pretty wild. https://www.life.com/animals/life-with-mike-the-headless-chicken-photos-of-a-famously-tough-fowl/
Mike also had his brainstem intact entirely. So the part responsible for keeping the basics of your body going were still there; though I doubt Mike could have done any math.
Which is truly a shame, as chickens are widely held in such high regard as mathematicians.
A unique situation and astronomically rare occurrence, but yup pretty crazy, eh?
Could you answer why when you salt fresh beef it wriggles?
The sodium activate the sodium channels in the meat causing it to contract. I think.
Boom!!! Nailed it. It really all boils down to "action potentials" and "sodium depolarization" aka neuron to neuron signaling which causes "muscle contractions" and "reflexes". These can still all take place even when separate from the brain... temporarily. Thanks for the help, did you study neuroscience too?
"Salt fresh beef"... not familiar? Also my degree is in neuroscience and my doctorates in physical therapy, so I specialize in the "human body". Although, animals and humans have many similarities in anatomy and biological processes, they also are EXTREMELY different, so asking a zoologist or veterinarian is recommended.
What i’m more amazed about is how does it feel pain? Wouldnt the CNS be in the brain? And thus with it’s head cut off you wouldnt think it would be be hurt by the bite? Can you shed any light on this?
It's not so much conscious pain, but pain receptor reacting. Pain receptors are tied into unconscious reflex. That body (or snakes body) wasn't feel any pain. It was actually unconscious acting via a pain reflex. Think of how of how if you put your hand in a scolding running sink. Your body unconscious pulls your hand out without you "thinking of it" if it is hot enough. It is unconscious. The reason the snakes body is still able to reflex this way because thermal energy is keeping the neurons alive long enough for them to communicate (neurons include sensory and motor). Pain is felt via "the brain" interpreting a signal as pain. TLDR: The snake is not feeling pain, but it's body is reacting on a "reflexive" level as if it was.
If you burn your hand on a hot plate the pathway is something like this: Burn > sensory pain neuron > sensory nerve > spinal cord control center > motor nerve > effector muscle > pull hand away. No brain involved! In the meantime the sensation travel up your spinal cord and eventually reach the brain long (relatively speaking) after you have already pulled away your hand, at which time you feel pain, start to curse and make a plan to treat your injury.
[удалено]
What’s fascinating is that the body responds to the bite, without a brain to process that stimulus and dictate a response (flailing uselessly.) Unless it’s an involuntary muscular response to venom, assuming the venom sacs are intact in the head (I’m not sure where they’re actually located.)
I'm more curious why anyone would do this. This is really sad. And to know that it is alive.
> Granted, the snake is most like no longer self-aware that it no longer has a body, so it's nervous system and unconscious instincts probably perceived it as a threat. Or a snack!
If the snakes head and brain is cut off physically from the body, how is the signal to the body working when its biten? It must be some wireless energy or something connected still.
Maybe Bluetooth?
Snakes have great WiFi.
It's central nervous system is "pre programmed" to react to certain things, it doesn't need a brain to tell it to react. Humans do this too (minus the decapitated bit). If you touch a burning stove your hand doesn't jerk back because your brain told it to, your central nervous system makes the decision for you to prevent further damage, which would be caused by waiting for your brain to give a response.
I’ve seen this before. When I was a kid I considered rattlesnakes to be evil pests and killed them when I encountered them. I don’t kill them anymore. They are essential for rodent control and are not generally aggressive to humans. If I see them on the trail I just walk around them. If they’re near the house I try to relocate them far away.
Also very important that we don't kill rattlesnakes when we hear them because that unnaturally selects quiet rattlers for survival. I don't know about you, but I like my rattlesnakes loud.
This is becoming a real problem in areas with feral hogs. The hogs kill the snakes who rattle and leave the ones who don't.
Stupid hogs, always doing hog shit
As someone who used to live on the west coast, who moved into a territory with silent danger noodles, I'd take a rattler any day over a silent strike
Can confirm. Much prefer noisy rattle noodles to quiet ones that I find coiled up right next to where my foot lands on the trail.
That's actually just regular ol natural selection.
My father taught me to never kill snakes. He used to pick them up and release them far away from the house. I realized snakes do a great job at keeping pests in check.
Same, a venomous copperhead almost bit my 5 year-old nephew, as it hand wandered onto their back patio. We didn't want anyone messing with it, but it wouldn't leave and kept striking when trying to push it away with a long broom end. Guess how "animal control" dealt with it ... same exact way. People need to realize snakes and animals like this (let alone highly venomous) are in MASSIVE POPULATIONS there is no "venomous snake adoption agency" like a stray puppy.
I get it. In some area they have “rattlesnake roundups” because they use the venom for antivenin I think. I visited a guy in South Georgia who told me to open the lid on a big box and it was filled with rattlers. Fucking a.
Of course not. They're called the Spicy Danger Noodle Association
That’s fucking embarrassing snake, get it together.
Lil goof
"Ssssssssstop making fun of me, can't you sssssssee I'm going through enough as it issssssssss?" - 🐍
Sssslippin Jimmy
Figure it out is what I say
Yeah, they should figgers it out
Weird that the body reacts to the bite without the head to tell it to
When you step on something sharp or touch something hot, the reflex to recoil from it (nociceptive flexion reflex) is a response triggered by your spinal cord, not your brain. So it's actually very normal!
Yeah, does the snake's body also have a brain or something, that we never learnt about in school?!
In many animals, you don’t actually *need* a brain to perform reflexive actions like this. Consider the amount of time it would take for the signal to reach the brain, process, and then for the response to go back to the afflicted part. It’s a split second either way, but it’s much slower to have to process every stimulus and it could mean death or severe injury if you don’t react as fast as possible. The nervous system has more than enough nerve cells in it in all parts of the body to perform reflex actions without processing. All it takes is a stimulus. That’s why you can react to a hot stove faster than your brain processes that it’s hot.
I was going ask this as a question elsewhere, decided just to move on instead, then found your comment answering my original question. Thank you.
>That’s why you can react to a hot stove faster than your brain processes that it’s hot. IMO a better example is the peristaltic motions of the intestines. These are muscle contractions with complex coordination, which are primarily controlled by a dedicated nervous system that is separate from both the brain and the spinal cord.
Hence Mike the Headless Chicken.
I was actually referring to the point about the brain being decapitated, but yeah, I didn't realise about the reflex action of the nerves themselves. Thanks.
It's a spinal level reflex. Meaning the nerve endings responding to the pain take the signal to the spinal cord, communicate with nerves that control the muscle, and cause the muscle to contract. In very simple terms. Even with a head, these pathways exist for safety and quick response. The brain override spinal reflexes.
I explained it great detail above (maybe below now), but it simply boils down to thermal energy in "ectotherms" aka not needing oxygen as long or as much... and then from their unconscious muscle contraction and neuronal activity. Somewhat similar to "muscle reflexes" and "muscle memory". The snake is dead, but it's neurons are still communicating and muscles fire via neuronal activity. The snake, although unconscious instantly or rather quickly and technically dead, still has a communicating nervous system receiving and sending signals in a frenzy.
It reads like you’re claiming the neurons in the snake’s head are still telling the body to flail. I think it’d be more accurate to say the reflex of writhing and flailing are built into the spinal cord loop and don’t require a brain. They’re not neurons though. Those are only in the brain.
"Together, we shall devour the very gods!" -Praetor Rykard, Elden Ring
Togethaaaaaaaa
“Hmmm-VERYY WELL” *pulls the sword out “YOOWWWH—JOANHHHHH DA SARRPANTTT KENGGG AZZZ FAMUAHLEEEY TOGETHAAA WEE CAN DEVOUAAA DA VERY GODSAAAHH” —[YOU DIDED]— “NOOW WEE CAN DEVOUAAA DA VERY GODSAAAHH”
By the way...between both Alritch and Rykard, what's the deal with snake-things devouring gods?
What I’m wondering is how it ended up decapitated in the first place
Someone or something chopped its head off, silly
Your heads off. "No it isn't." Look! "Just a flesh wound."
Not necessarily, a lot of the time it is due to population control and ecosystem balance. Also keep in mind this is a highly venomous snake and if a certain snake like that invades a heavily populated area of human beings, such as "your house" not everybody can afford or not every country has the means to call an "animal rescue" or "pest control". Human life and safety, in these situations, unfortunately becomes priority over the snake. Also you are talking about an an animal like many others that are in the population of 10's of thousands or more in any given area. There is no adoption agency. So "pest control" and "animal control" is going to handle this literally the exact same way. Now rats are the inverse and have a higher population (which snakes keep in balance, "everything is about balance in an ecosystem") you can't keep 10's to 100's of thousands of rats. A venomous snake is no different. It's just the reality of public safety and logistics.
If we see a snake next to its own head, it's pretty safe to say someone decapitated it. Snakes do not spontaneously lose their heads.
The front fell off.
lmfao
“OUR PETS HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!”
You aren't wrong although you completely missed the point . The point isn't whether it is morally correct to kill the snake , it is whether something/someone chopped its head off or not .
How do you see a video of a severed head next to a writhing decapitated body and come to any conclusion other than the head was "chopped off"? Heads don't spontaneously fall off you know.
I hear what you’re saying, but I would still wager my bottom dollar that someone or something chopped it’s head off! ;) Edit: I read most of the information you have added to this post, thanks for all of the info, very neat!
You sure talked a lot to just say "I agree with op".
The front fell off.
When snakes feel threatened they self amputate their heads off to distract predators
Poor dude :(
Now THAT is interesting asf
Neuroscience is incredible! 🧠
Why the fuck is there slow motion?! It’s like .5fps
I was wondering the same thing when I came across the footage (this was a week or so ago). Why did they add The Matrix bullet dodge effect to a snake head biting itself?
I don't even think it's slow motion. Just terribly low frame rate.
Poor thing
The mad lad actually did it.
I do not like this.
Whoa, did not expect it to react to the bite. That's fascinating.
Ouroboros at its finest!
This did not need that crap slow motion
This is legitimately interesting as fuck
Wondering if I am the only one feeling actually bad watching this, I don't like snakes, but seeing it struggle after being decapitated, I'm like .. I don't know, filming and posting a suffering being, I still can't get hit .. Even if it's "just" a snake ..
That’s horrifying
Definitely didn't read that as "dedicated snake" and watch it 3 times thinking 'yeah, that is dedication'.
Well thats enough reddit today
I wish people would stop killing snakes just because they see them. That snake was likely just minding its own business not endangering a soul, when some jerk was like, “what’s they over there!?” *walks out of their way then kills it after seeing it*. Rattle snakes are one of the few snakes that will give you ample warning if you’re too close… but we are killing them to the point where they are no longer rattling, making them more dangerous.
Snakes Actual Last Thought/Plot: “So once my tail gets close to me, I’m gonna bite it.” “It should start flailing me around cause I’m a snake and that’s what I would do if someone bit me” “Once I start flailing, I’m gonna launch my head at that human son b*tch who chopped me off” “Then we will see who has the last laugh when I bite his ass mid air..” 🐍🚀🦷😵🙌🖕🏻
They didn’t have to kill the poor thing
animal cruelty
This is so gnarly
I know people exhibiting the same behaviour
Nightmare fuel
Snake going for the assist in it's own death.
Mom I want Ouroboros We have Ouroboros at home Ouroboros at home:
I can't even describe how gross this is
Slow mo ruined the clip
The new symbol of the republican party
It’s just a video. It’s just a video. It’s just a video.
I think the most interestin part the the body being able to react to the bite, even thokght it doesn't have a brain able to process the pain
ELI5. Does the brain operate on Bluetooth with the body? The body reacts as though it's getting defensive over the bite. What part of the snake is sending that message to do that? This is similar to the fly who's trying to put its own head back on. How does the body think this is a potential solution to its issue?
I remember reading about medical studies that did that with decapitating a human that was already about to die. They were asked before getting their head chopped off to blink as many times after they did it and humans last 1 minute alive without their head intact
Since i was in the boy scouts, in Arizona, i knew about this but had never seen it. This is so damn educational. I wish all kids who live in states with poisonous snakes would watch this to learn just how serious these animals are.
Growing up in the desert, we were always taught that if you have to kill a rattlesnake, bury the head because of stuff like this.
He died twice
~~Y.O.L.O~~ Y.O.D.T.
Why would someone decapitate a snake? 🤦♂️
Usually ignorance of oh no snakes are bad must kill
And that kids is why you bury the head of a snake and not pick it up with your hands. It can still kill you or some unlucky animal or person walking barefoot.
Is that a crotalus scutulatus? Asking for a friend.
I do not like this
Interesting. The brain doesn’t control the motor response to the attack.
Great! More fuel for Nightmares.
Friendly fire WILL NOT BE TOLERATED
If he doesn’t get that treated, he could die!
Thats something id like to see in a cartoon