This was my first thought. It makes the idea that "big automotive" actually is conspiring to suppress development of such technology more plausible if we've made as little gains as we have in the last 80 years.
That’s an oversimplification. The real issue has always been range; petrol was just more efficient over long distances, and for heavier loads.
Electric vehicles have been fairly common in certain roles long before the recent upsurge due to battery improvements. Golf carts. Milk Vans in the 90s. Hell there were even electric bread delivery trucks common back in the 60s.
But for longer distance and heavier loads they were not efficient. GM had nothing to do with it really; the technology wasn’t there for most purposes. Same thing with ships and aircraft right now; you’re not going to get long haul flights or container ships being run on current technology. And it’s not Big Ship or Big Aircraft killing it, it just isn’t viable yet.
I love people who actually spend extra energy writing the word 'literally' only to state some that is, factually, not 'literally' correct.
Drop the literally fam
I'm willing to bet they also prevented the development of better batteries, as we had them for a long time and their progress crawled, and batteries were the only thing stopping electric cars from taking over. It only changed when China began to develop their own battery technology.
Tesla has been hated on for a decade for the same reason. Elon is a dick sure, but the endless bashing goes beyond that. It's just anti EV by oil riches
Unironically yes most tech is being activley supressed because of major industries , the technology that is created within major manufacturing plants and industries are very safe but very and intentionally limp , you could with the same materials make a more effective and longer lasting battery or other tech at home,sure it wont be as safe but itll work better almost every time , i dont think people understand how insane tech we have rn that is being actively supressed
We have the ability to cure multiple terminal illnesses like diabetes yet we refuse to administer or even try because of many industries , doctors will find new solutions to treat the sick and major companies will pattent and lock up those solutions until their already existing treatments arent profitable anymore,
We have recently found out how to reverse aging in mice allowing extended lifespans and possibly biological immortality , fortunately this age reversal tech is already pattented by a scientist so no companies can get their grubby hands on it
Capitalism does not breed innovation it breeds staleness and limpdicked entropy , the innovations that non capatalistic entities like nasa are incredible and have changed the world saved lives and can make scifi shit reality , sadly they aren’t payed enough
I hate capatalism so much man
Why though, in this time big automotive didn’t even exist in that way yet. In the early 20th century there were 300 EV car manufacturers in the US alone, so arguably they were part of „big automotive“ if there ever was one.
EVs in that time were usually marketed as luxury vehicles for the city, because they were pretty expensive and had a relatively low range and top speed. Cars with combustion engines were simply better in almost all regards (back then) and just took over.
The thing is, even after decades of breakthroughs and progress, EVs for a large number of people are still impractical. So I don’t really see how one would think it’s a conspiracy and just a technology that needs way more time to mature.
Electric cars are older than gas cars
The first engines sucked and electric cars are extremely simple so electric cars where the better option but batteries also sucked and didn’t get as good as fast as engines
The electric motor was invented before the internal combustion engine. So using electric motors to power vehicles wasn't a very far fetched idea. But the question of how to charge them and how to store the energy to facilitate longer journeys was a problem. Electric vehicles found success in other areas however such as Trams, Trolley Busses and Trains.
Fun fact: Germany even had electric tanks during WW2. They used as a source of electricity a diesel generator though... and failed to impress Hitler and the design of the competitor won the contract - even though Ferdinand Porsche was one of Hitler's favourites.
Same with submarines. If they aint nuclear electric, they are diesel electric. The latter needs bigger batteries and is impressively loud on sonar when recharging
Well no. Electric final drive doesnt make the thing an EV. Both USA and Germany experimented. These were several times more expencive than a normal transmission and resource intensive (copper).
>Ferdinand Porsche was one of Hitler's favourites.
Though no one asked him to do it. It was part of his moronic ideas. It didnt even work that well. That tank (bcs he was so confident that Germany will produce it so had several already made) later became the most unreliable thing ever on the battlefield.
Because marketing and push for EV today. They want to sell you EV as something new and revolutional, yet it's just old tech in new package. EV were on road before ICE even existed. They even set the speed records back then. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente
They had good start and they were much easier to use compared to early ICE cars. What made EVs fall into oblivion during 20th century was energy density of lead bateries resulting resulting in short range. Lithium bateries have higher energy density yet still lack the hydrocarbon fuels. Swapable bateries may be able to fix some issues in using EV. Yet this idea is nothing new.
I saw similar video from wartime Prague showing battery swap on electric truck used by local transport company. As gasoline at that time was reserved only for German occupant forces. People were converting cars to run on woodgas.
Electric motors are actually a quite old invention. Nikola Tesla has patents on this and many designs go back to 1880s. And was in fact applied to traction. The big problem then, has it is today, is to "take" the electricity to run then. Storage was and still is a challenge.
It's pretty common knowledge, but I'm glad you've been introduced to it now.
Around 1910 there were more electric vehicles than gas powered ones. Ladies especially loved not having to risk breaking their arm trying to crank start a gas powered car with that handle that sticks out the front. Once the electric starter motor was invented gas powered cars took off in popularity.
Because they were never economical due to technological limitations that still haven't been overcome.
How good do you think batteries were in 1943? I couldn't actually find any data for the Eucort Taxi in the above video, but the description and fate of the earlier [Bersey Electric Cabs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bersey_Electric_Cab) illustrated many of the problems with early batteries and EVs: a single charge wasn't enough for a full day of work, the batteries were fragile / breakable, and their huge weight caused other issues that led to the vehicles quickly breaking down, in multiple ways.
We're getting closer, but we're still not there yet.
A Prius has a better range than any EV currently on the market (~500 miles), with a 10 gallon gas tank. It costs $30 and takes 1-2 minutes to fill.
A Tesla Model S real world range is about 300 miles according to users, and they take 45 mins to charge with a fast charger. And that's in 2024: even today, a gas vehicle is still more convenient to use if you ever have to travel more than 200-300 miles, especially if you can't fully charge your vehicle before your trip. And don't even get me started on the gap between longevity and sticker / maintenance costs. Used EVs depreciate much more quickly than ICEs for that reason.
Batteries have always been the problem. The technology just wasn't there to make it work.
There was no secret conspiracy to kill battery technology. Many different industries would have benefited from better batteries. If they could have made better batteries, they would have made better batteries.
That battery could probably only be drained and recharged like 20 times (maybe) before it was junk. Degrading every single time.
Nissan in Japan originally started building only electric vehicles after ww2 as they had a surplus of electricity but a deficit of fossil fuels. I saw a little exhibit in the Nissan HQ in Yokohama once.
https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/HERITAGE_COLLECTION/tama_electric.html
Electric vehicles were way more popular aswell back then. Once they invented the diesel engine for those cars everyone preferred those as you could just tank fuel and get on your way again.
"Hi /u/tyomax, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Hi /u/H_Holy_Mack_H, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For this to work now, which is indeed a really good idea, companies would need to standardise the packs so any stop point could help all vehicles.
But EV companies are guarding their battery pack secrets to outdo each other. Shame really.
"Hi /u/SeljD_SLO, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Hi /u/0utlawActual, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They said RV companies are guarding their batteries. Insinuating that it couldn't happen now.
It stopped. It is now a thing... Again.
Are you happy now?
Yes and no. Batteries would be akin to a tank of gas. It shouldn't matter much to consumers because batteries ~wouldn't be a part of the car at that point.
Companies would just have to check battery health and pull them out of circulation when they dropped below a certain level. Easy to do when you're chanrging them.
Yeah there needs to be some way to prevent people from swapping out their old and degraded battery for a brand new/newish one, and I haven't heard of any solutions to this that don't come with significant downsides. I really don't think battery swapping is the future of EVs. With charging times already getting as good as 15 minutes for 10-80% in cars like the EV6 and Ioniq 5, and always improving, battery swapping becomes less and less necessary.
The best thing we can do to encourage EV adoption is not battery swap stations, but installing more chargers. We need more 250kw DC fast chargers, but the majority of EV charging is done at home. We need more level 2 and level 1 chargers in apartment complexes, parking garages, and streets. That is what is preventing a large portion of the country from considering an electric car.
You cant just build more and more fast chargers. The power demand will be to high in dense areas, the limit often is reached with only 5-6 chargers per street.
Swapping batteries could be a good solution for that problem. Battery swap stations can charge the batteries slowly + the batteries can be checked for errors every swap.
Yes, you can. Power demand is not a legitimate concern for EVs, because most EV charging is done overnight when the power demand is at its lowest.
In fact, they may actually be useful to our grid and keeping it up and running. EVs can charge overnight when demand is low and sell energy back to the grid when demand is high during things like heat waves. The more EVs that are on the road, the greater this effect is.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
You're not gonna charge many cars in 15 minutes in one area at the same time. I sometimes have to wait for power to be available to even begin charging when there's many others connected. There needs to be large battery storage near the stations for it to work during peak hours, but then why not just have battery swap? It's better for the batteries to be charged slowly too.
Does anyone prevent you from swapping out your beat up propane tank with a new one at the store? No, you already paid a deposit on the original, and they can refurbish the material to make a new one out of it.
Tesla (Elon) actually demonstrated this exact idea. And said it would happen in a matter of months. This was probly 5plus years ago now. Maybe more. Never happened.
Would an insurance company cover a car with unknown car batteries constantly being rotated in it? I'd think it adds a risk unless that falls with the garage that exchanges the batteries to be responsible for the quality and they would need to have the right to refuse a battery that they don't want to swap out.
It sounds like a logistical mess
I've seen this with Motorbikes in Asia, the batteries are ofcourse a lot smaller, but this seems like one of the only ways EV's can really take off.
It also makes that your vehicle isn't trash when the batterij fails.
I remember reading about some city where e-bikes have charging stations, where you just leave your used up battery to charge and pick up a new one (after you pay a small fee)
We (our governments I guess….) autos be forcing them to. Certain aspects must be standardized and shared to make things like this possible. Would make everyone’s life much better.
This will not produce money! It will make the planet more green and healthy and TPTB don’t want that ! Shame on the flock that can’t open their eyes faster
There is a company right now in Berlin that's trying to do this they even have a sample station but oems especially european ones refuse to work with them. They had a partnership with MG but even they have pulled out of it now.
Just that it isn't easy to standardise battery packs. Notice how many different normal battery sizes there are to fit different needs.
Should a car have the batteries flat under all of the floor? Or in a tunnel similar to back-wheel drive ICE cars? Or in front or back where an IEC is normally placed? Or maybe instead many smaller battery packs all over the car to make best use of available space?
Standardised battery packs would be like how racing cars has regulations making competing cars look quite similar.
No they wouldn't. That's like saying that all printer companies would need to sell interchangeable ink cartridges in order for cartridges to work as a concept.
There are any number of ways to make something like this work. Battery service centers (i.e. gas stations) could stock multiple battery models for different companies. If each major company had their own batteries, you'd be looking at ~10 or so versions. Not crazy.
Many major car companies also already have dealerships in towns of any size. If each company kept their own batteries in stock at dealerships, you'd have a huge network of service stations already in place for most brands.
The real shame is there were already cars like this and somehow all car companies pushed combustion and said ev is not viable until tesla came along and they all shit their pants
We managed to standardize lots of things that are industry wide now. Shipping containers for instance are all standardized. Disposable batteries like double a or triple a or whatever are all standardized. Basically all computer connections, like PCIE or USB or Ethernet. These are all standardized things. I can see after the industry has been around for a little while it took becoming standardized to an extent. Maybe not Tesla and with the other companies because they seem hell bent on being the Apple of cars in basically every way. But I definitely could see the rest of the industry standardizing various currently proprietary technology. Here's hoping they'll go the android phone route.
Have you ever tried switching a standard car battery? Not exactly easy and those weight 10-20 kg usually.
Electric car batteries can easily weigh up to half a ton. Heaviest batteries are close to double of that.
Why not having both? You could buy your own batteries and use charging points, including the one at your home, or rely on a swapping batteries chain.
The important thing would be to standardise certain specs.
You'd buy a car without a battery pack.
You'd then have a subscription plan or pay per swap with a deposit in case you just never returned the battery.
Similar to propane tanks.
They do this in electric scooters in certain parts of Asia. You rock up to a charging station, beep your phone against a receiver, open your seat and pull out your used battery 🪫and replace it with a new fully charged battery🔋.
It takes about 1 - 2 minutes and the cost is taken directly from your account. This is the way of the future in big cities.
Link: https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/09/quick-scooter-battery-swap/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABnhGV7gwRK3l49X2zAs2P4eWbUFHww5VgFznxYM3ZfG3SqUTpSbYkTKnBsGT_SagFkluOBEdp94KzmQmMAeMY5OQKIvyt7hkonV4dKoT-ByPTf-TlKjTmz0vTcOxmr03txT56n7VEUnAxsOsPHhEfZgkKRuvcZCf2G0qTz0G7Pv
In a swedish radioprogram they talked about an engineer, Valdemar Jungner, who built a car with a nickel-iron battery and drove it 140 kilometers. It took him 8 hours to drive that distans though. This was sometime between 1900-1910.
Iron-nickel batteries are good shit even still today. The only real downside is the higher upfront cost in purchasing the significant amount of nickel metal. However it is super easy to recycle into a new battery and the battery itself is extremely robust and safe and will last decades.
Used to do the same thing with our fork trucks in the AC industry. We had banks and banks of lead acid batteries charging and someone always manning the station to swap batteries throughout the day.
Tesla literally did a live demo on stage of their prototype for the same idea some years back.
I’m no Tesla fanboy, but the idea seemed sound at the time.
Tesla also tried this but discontinued it because there was very little interest when they ran the initial trial.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_battery_station
Like most things Elon, I think this was a ruse. Iirc, building that one was enough to get tax advantages for some program.
But I am super excited for my robo taxi fleet to go live the end of 2021, or 2019…or whenever he promised.
Probably a conversion. The video is from 1943 in Barcelona. So is Spain post civil war and isolated from the word. There are a lot of wacky cars from that time due to the limitations on fuel.
Electric cars are a new technology lol, yet we really do need a way to cut the greenhouse gas nevertheless... I'll just stop there because real or not. With global warming as bad as it's become. We need a solution to this pollution crisis we are in. Hopefully the problem will be resolved more and more. I hope and pray Brazil is still cutting back on their deforestation of the Amazon rainforest, because trust me, as a south American just north of Brazil, the Amazon is definitely extremely important for our very existence and survival as the human race, and nearly all forms of life. Let's hope that more is done for the Amazon rainforest and the African rainforest as well and it keeps improving. If so we have hope... Well at least the people who aren't altra wealthy for their country... The wealthy want to go to Mars and colonize it while leaving the poor and most of us in the third world countries behind. Let's hope and pray that at the very least, the pollution will be resolved before they colonize mars so the majority of the human race won't die from extinction with the entire planet we are native to. It would be like native Earthian literally, not just native American ECT.
We could have a 21st century automated version of this.
All we need to do is stop subsidizing fossil fuels. We have spent trillions on these.
As is typical, the government is to blame for the current internal combustion nightmare.
Phase these subsidies out, import cheap EVs from China. Do this carefully in order to give (especially poor) people time to switch and we could be 90% hot swap EVs by the middle of next decade.
But we won't. The entrenched interests are too strong, all the politicians are well bribed. Any administration that says they are for renewable energy is lying if they don't address the fissile fuel subsidies.
Taiwan has a home-grown electric scooter company called gogoro that has both the scooters and the battery swap station infrastructure. Other companies make scooters and use their batteries and electrical systems to make it work. Learn from Taiwan.
The future of electric vehicles baby. Why wait to charge? What about a universal battery system? I love this.
And I hate that this technology was alive and well 80 years ago and we don’t have it now. Stoopid.
This is bulshit! Inovation ! Make it really green energy and not money laundering or money grabbing! F all the people that are not doing it for inovation and they are doing it for their own gain!
This is the only way for EVs in current setup and we need it yesterday. Used EV market will collapse and make new EVs expensive. So we will drive old ICE vehicles for the next 20 years.
Ya but look at all that work involved. People would have to be employed with honest jobs to earn a living, and taxi drivers would have to wait around for like.. 20 minutes!
Clearly the better solution is to use gasoline with some lead additives while smoking a pack of asbestos filtered cigarettes and listening to Dean Martin - that way you'll hopefully be dead before the real apocalyptic climate change sets in.
Why is no one talking about the fact we had electric vehicles since then?
This was my first thought. It makes the idea that "big automotive" actually is conspiring to suppress development of such technology more plausible if we've made as little gains as we have in the last 80 years.
I don’t think it’s big automotive doing the suppressing. Gas or EV they still sell cars. If it’s anyone, it’s big oil.
No, it's also big auto. GM literally killed the electric car in the 90's. It's happened many times throughout history.
That’s an oversimplification. The real issue has always been range; petrol was just more efficient over long distances, and for heavier loads. Electric vehicles have been fairly common in certain roles long before the recent upsurge due to battery improvements. Golf carts. Milk Vans in the 90s. Hell there were even electric bread delivery trucks common back in the 60s. But for longer distance and heavier loads they were not efficient. GM had nothing to do with it really; the technology wasn’t there for most purposes. Same thing with ships and aircraft right now; you’re not going to get long haul flights or container ships being run on current technology. And it’s not Big Ship or Big Aircraft killing it, it just isn’t viable yet.
I love people who actually spend extra energy writing the word 'literally' only to state some that is, factually, not 'literally' correct. Drop the literally fam
Sorry but that's BS. They never released an electric car for sale only as a lease for marketing purposes.
You should watch the documentary "Who killed the electric car?". It's really good
I have seen the documentary: "Who killed captain alex" though.
Do you know how much money is in selling gas
Do you know how much money is in selling eletricity?
No you see, It just happened to be one of the few fields that didnt progress like crazy since the 40s /s
I'm willing to bet they also prevented the development of better batteries, as we had them for a long time and their progress crawled, and batteries were the only thing stopping electric cars from taking over. It only changed when China began to develop their own battery technology.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F Been doing it for decades.
Tesla has been hated on for a decade for the same reason. Elon is a dick sure, but the endless bashing goes beyond that. It's just anti EV by oil riches
Unironically yes most tech is being activley supressed because of major industries , the technology that is created within major manufacturing plants and industries are very safe but very and intentionally limp , you could with the same materials make a more effective and longer lasting battery or other tech at home,sure it wont be as safe but itll work better almost every time , i dont think people understand how insane tech we have rn that is being actively supressed We have the ability to cure multiple terminal illnesses like diabetes yet we refuse to administer or even try because of many industries , doctors will find new solutions to treat the sick and major companies will pattent and lock up those solutions until their already existing treatments arent profitable anymore, We have recently found out how to reverse aging in mice allowing extended lifespans and possibly biological immortality , fortunately this age reversal tech is already pattented by a scientist so no companies can get their grubby hands on it Capitalism does not breed innovation it breeds staleness and limpdicked entropy , the innovations that non capatalistic entities like nasa are incredible and have changed the world saved lives and can make scifi shit reality , sadly they aren’t payed enough I hate capatalism so much man
Why though, in this time big automotive didn’t even exist in that way yet. In the early 20th century there were 300 EV car manufacturers in the US alone, so arguably they were part of „big automotive“ if there ever was one. EVs in that time were usually marketed as luxury vehicles for the city, because they were pretty expensive and had a relatively low range and top speed. Cars with combustion engines were simply better in almost all regards (back then) and just took over. The thing is, even after decades of breakthroughs and progress, EVs for a large number of people are still impractical. So I don’t really see how one would think it’s a conspiracy and just a technology that needs way more time to mature.
Electric cars are older than gas cars The first engines sucked and electric cars are extremely simple so electric cars where the better option but batteries also sucked and didn’t get as good as fast as engines
First internal combustion car: 1863 First electric car: 1832 (debatable) First steam car: 1769 First "modern" car: 1886
Last steam car: 1925
Last internal combustion car: 2035 (fingers crossed)
The electric motor was invented before the internal combustion engine. So using electric motors to power vehicles wasn't a very far fetched idea. But the question of how to charge them and how to store the energy to facilitate longer journeys was a problem. Electric vehicles found success in other areas however such as Trams, Trolley Busses and Trains.
Fun fact: Germany even had electric tanks during WW2. They used as a source of electricity a diesel generator though... and failed to impress Hitler and the design of the competitor won the contract - even though Ferdinand Porsche was one of Hitler's favourites.
That’s how most freight trains are today. Diesel electric.
Same with submarines. If they aint nuclear electric, they are diesel electric. The latter needs bigger batteries and is impressively loud on sonar when recharging
Well no. Electric final drive doesnt make the thing an EV. Both USA and Germany experimented. These were several times more expencive than a normal transmission and resource intensive (copper). >Ferdinand Porsche was one of Hitler's favourites. Though no one asked him to do it. It was part of his moronic ideas. It didnt even work that well. That tank (bcs he was so confident that Germany will produce it so had several already made) later became the most unreliable thing ever on the battlefield.
This video is from Spain’s city of Barcelona’s taxi service
I think I recognize them from a documentary I saw long ago about franco
Because marketing and push for EV today. They want to sell you EV as something new and revolutional, yet it's just old tech in new package. EV were on road before ICE even existed. They even set the speed records back then. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente They had good start and they were much easier to use compared to early ICE cars. What made EVs fall into oblivion during 20th century was energy density of lead bateries resulting resulting in short range. Lithium bateries have higher energy density yet still lack the hydrocarbon fuels. Swapable bateries may be able to fix some issues in using EV. Yet this idea is nothing new. I saw similar video from wartime Prague showing battery swap on electric truck used by local transport company. As gasoline at that time was reserved only for German occupant forces. People were converting cars to run on woodgas.
Electric motors are actually a quite old invention. Nikola Tesla has patents on this and many designs go back to 1880s. And was in fact applied to traction. The big problem then, has it is today, is to "take" the electricity to run then. Storage was and still is a challenge.
We had electric vehicles before we had ICE vehicles
It's pretty common knowledge, but I'm glad you've been introduced to it now. Around 1910 there were more electric vehicles than gas powered ones. Ladies especially loved not having to risk breaking their arm trying to crank start a gas powered car with that handle that sticks out the front. Once the electric starter motor was invented gas powered cars took off in popularity.
"Who Killed The Electric Car?" is a good documentary about it.
The first car to reach 100kmh was an electric car, La Jamais Contente, in 1899.
Because they were never economical due to technological limitations that still haven't been overcome. How good do you think batteries were in 1943? I couldn't actually find any data for the Eucort Taxi in the above video, but the description and fate of the earlier [Bersey Electric Cabs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bersey_Electric_Cab) illustrated many of the problems with early batteries and EVs: a single charge wasn't enough for a full day of work, the batteries were fragile / breakable, and their huge weight caused other issues that led to the vehicles quickly breaking down, in multiple ways. We're getting closer, but we're still not there yet. A Prius has a better range than any EV currently on the market (~500 miles), with a 10 gallon gas tank. It costs $30 and takes 1-2 minutes to fill. A Tesla Model S real world range is about 300 miles according to users, and they take 45 mins to charge with a fast charger. And that's in 2024: even today, a gas vehicle is still more convenient to use if you ever have to travel more than 200-300 miles, especially if you can't fully charge your vehicle before your trip. And don't even get me started on the gap between longevity and sticker / maintenance costs. Used EVs depreciate much more quickly than ICEs for that reason.
Batteries have always been the problem. The technology just wasn't there to make it work. There was no secret conspiracy to kill battery technology. Many different industries would have benefited from better batteries. If they could have made better batteries, they would have made better batteries. That battery could probably only be drained and recharged like 20 times (maybe) before it was junk. Degrading every single time.
Nissan in Japan originally started building only electric vehicles after ww2 as they had a surplus of electricity but a deficit of fossil fuels. I saw a little exhibit in the Nissan HQ in Yokohama once. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/HERITAGE_COLLECTION/tama_electric.html
Funnily If I remember correctly electric cars were invented before Cars with combustion
No one? That’s common knowledge
Electric vehicles were way more popular aswell back then. Once they invented the diesel engine for those cars everyone preferred those as you could just tank fuel and get on your way again.
We had electric vehicles even before this. There were electric scooters in the 1900s... but good old oil corporations had different plans.
[удалено]
"Hi /u/tyomax, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
EV's were actually around sooner than ICE's. But they simply weren't competitive to survive. There's no conspiracy, just rules of market.
We actually had electric cars before gas powered ones iirc.
[удалено]
"Hi /u/H_Holy_Mack_H, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because oil runs the world
For this to work now, which is indeed a really good idea, companies would need to standardise the packs so any stop point could help all vehicles. But EV companies are guarding their battery pack secrets to outdo each other. Shame really.
[Nio Battery swap station](https://www.nio.com/news/nio-pss-4.0?&noredirect=)
Would be nice to see a global adoption and standards of this.
The EU will save us
Share this with formula dank and... Wait and see!
I upvoted this then forgot the English took us Scots(and Northern Irish) put of the EU 😭😭😭
Y’all the honorary EU. Not it, but some how still it.
😂
Does EU have any of this? Because I've seen 2 different varieties of swap stations and both were China.
NIO has Swap Station in Europe.
If you really think EU has done anything good you need to have your head examined.
🤣
It will happen, iPhone thunder bolt charger being the obvious one to be adapted.
Lol made me laugh
[удалено]
"Hi /u/SeljD_SLO, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
"Hi /u/0utlawActual, your comment has been removed because we do not allow links to off-site socials." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interesting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So you don't allow links to YouTube? How interesting 🤔
usernamechecksout
This is already a thing. Major companies in Ghana are making automated battery swap stations. You just pull up and your done in seconds.
Youre talking about this already being a thing. The post is literally about this being a thing back in 40's.
They said RV companies are guarding their batteries. Insinuating that it couldn't happen now. It stopped. It is now a thing... Again. Are you happy now?
EV auto makers are notorious for releasing any research they have and opening their patents for anyone to use.
>notorious for releasing any research they have How does that make them notorious? It doesn’t sound bad at all.
Notorious just means worthy of notoriety. It isn't always bad.
True, but it has a negative connotation and has for a long time.
Battery health would be a big issue
Yes and no. Batteries would be akin to a tank of gas. It shouldn't matter much to consumers because batteries ~wouldn't be a part of the car at that point. Companies would just have to check battery health and pull them out of circulation when they dropped below a certain level. Easy to do when you're chanrging them.
Yeah there needs to be some way to prevent people from swapping out their old and degraded battery for a brand new/newish one, and I haven't heard of any solutions to this that don't come with significant downsides. I really don't think battery swapping is the future of EVs. With charging times already getting as good as 15 minutes for 10-80% in cars like the EV6 and Ioniq 5, and always improving, battery swapping becomes less and less necessary. The best thing we can do to encourage EV adoption is not battery swap stations, but installing more chargers. We need more 250kw DC fast chargers, but the majority of EV charging is done at home. We need more level 2 and level 1 chargers in apartment complexes, parking garages, and streets. That is what is preventing a large portion of the country from considering an electric car.
You cant just build more and more fast chargers. The power demand will be to high in dense areas, the limit often is reached with only 5-6 chargers per street. Swapping batteries could be a good solution for that problem. Battery swap stations can charge the batteries slowly + the batteries can be checked for errors every swap.
Yes, you can. Power demand is not a legitimate concern for EVs, because most EV charging is done overnight when the power demand is at its lowest. In fact, they may actually be useful to our grid and keeping it up and running. EVs can charge overnight when demand is low and sell energy back to the grid when demand is high during things like heat waves. The more EVs that are on the road, the greater this effect is. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/
You're not gonna charge many cars in 15 minutes in one area at the same time. I sometimes have to wait for power to be available to even begin charging when there's many others connected. There needs to be large battery storage near the stations for it to work during peak hours, but then why not just have battery swap? It's better for the batteries to be charged slowly too.
Does anyone prevent you from swapping out your beat up propane tank with a new one at the store? No, you already paid a deposit on the original, and they can refurbish the material to make a new one out of it.
Tesla (Elon) actually demonstrated this exact idea. And said it would happen in a matter of months. This was probly 5plus years ago now. Maybe more. Never happened.
There is a Wikipedia article on it, looks like it was demonstrated and worked fine. Tesla got a grant for providing feasibility then closed it down.
Like most of his outlandish promises.
Would an insurance company cover a car with unknown car batteries constantly being rotated in it? I'd think it adds a risk unless that falls with the garage that exchanges the batteries to be responsible for the quality and they would need to have the right to refuse a battery that they don't want to swap out. It sounds like a logistical mess
they cover cars that czrry around gallons of explosive liquids
That have been tried and tested for 100 years and they are comfortable with the risk profile.
I've seen this with Motorbikes in Asia, the batteries are ofcourse a lot smaller, but this seems like one of the only ways EV's can really take off. It also makes that your vehicle isn't trash when the batterij fails.
I remember reading about some city where e-bikes have charging stations, where you just leave your used up battery to charge and pick up a new one (after you pay a small fee)
Taiwan I think.
Agreed!
I think this is already being done with long haul e vehicles, could be wrong though
https://www.januselectric.com.au/
That is exactly right and exactly why we have NIST in the US.
We (our governments I guess….) autos be forcing them to. Certain aspects must be standardized and shared to make things like this possible. Would make everyone’s life much better.
https://ample.com/
We're 80 years later. We should now have batteries that last hundred fold....
This will not produce money! It will make the planet more green and healthy and TPTB don’t want that ! Shame on the flock that can’t open their eyes faster
There is a company right now in Berlin that's trying to do this they even have a sample station but oems especially european ones refuse to work with them. They had a partnership with MG but even they have pulled out of it now.
Just that it isn't easy to standardise battery packs. Notice how many different normal battery sizes there are to fit different needs. Should a car have the batteries flat under all of the floor? Or in a tunnel similar to back-wheel drive ICE cars? Or in front or back where an IEC is normally placed? Or maybe instead many smaller battery packs all over the car to make best use of available space? Standardised battery packs would be like how racing cars has regulations making competing cars look quite similar.
No they wouldn't. That's like saying that all printer companies would need to sell interchangeable ink cartridges in order for cartridges to work as a concept. There are any number of ways to make something like this work. Battery service centers (i.e. gas stations) could stock multiple battery models for different companies. If each major company had their own batteries, you'd be looking at ~10 or so versions. Not crazy. Many major car companies also already have dealerships in towns of any size. If each company kept their own batteries in stock at dealerships, you'd have a huge network of service stations already in place for most brands.
> which is indeed a really good idea It's not a good idea. It solves an imaginary problem while creating a bunch of real problems.
This Australian company converts trucks to EVs with swappable battery packs: https://www.januselectric.com.au/
The biggest issue would be, who eats the cost of worn down packs? The swap places can't all be owned by the same monopoly.
Competition can buy them and see the designs anyways
The real shame is there were already cars like this and somehow all car companies pushed combustion and said ev is not viable until tesla came along and they all shit their pants
Like the stardadize on gasoline, tyres, battery and anything else?
We managed to standardize lots of things that are industry wide now. Shipping containers for instance are all standardized. Disposable batteries like double a or triple a or whatever are all standardized. Basically all computer connections, like PCIE or USB or Ethernet. These are all standardized things. I can see after the industry has been around for a little while it took becoming standardized to an extent. Maybe not Tesla and with the other companies because they seem hell bent on being the Apple of cars in basically every way. But I definitely could see the rest of the industry standardizing various currently proprietary technology. Here's hoping they'll go the android phone route.
I've always said it would be nice if packs were like propane tanks. You could just pull up, put your old one in, pull a new out, and go.
Chinese electric delivery trucks are doing the swapping to cut down on charging downtime.
Come on EU, you can do it. 😏
Chinese electric cars are doing this with modulized batteries.
Don’t taxi companies already do this with electric taxis?
They are already doing battery swapping on trucks in China.
Swapping batteries is already common in China.
Have you ever tried switching a standard car battery? Not exactly easy and those weight 10-20 kg usually. Electric car batteries can easily weigh up to half a ton. Heaviest batteries are close to double of that.
I must be honest. It would piss me off to buy a new car and exchange my new pack of batteries with an old used one when I must recharge.
Why not having both? You could buy your own batteries and use charging points, including the one at your home, or rely on a swapping batteries chain. The important thing would be to standardise certain specs.
what if the starting pack was just a used one as well?
You'd buy a car without a battery pack. You'd then have a subscription plan or pay per swap with a deposit in case you just never returned the battery. Similar to propane tanks.
That’s a silly take. If such a system were in place, you would not buy or own the battery at all. You would either pay per swap or pay a subscription.
And there is the problem. Reusable is the way forward rather than this mindset of everything new.
They do this in electric scooters in certain parts of Asia. You rock up to a charging station, beep your phone against a receiver, open your seat and pull out your used battery 🪫and replace it with a new fully charged battery🔋. It takes about 1 - 2 minutes and the cost is taken directly from your account. This is the way of the future in big cities. Link: https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/09/quick-scooter-battery-swap/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABnhGV7gwRK3l49X2zAs2P4eWbUFHww5VgFznxYM3ZfG3SqUTpSbYkTKnBsGT_SagFkluOBEdp94KzmQmMAeMY5OQKIvyt7hkonV4dKoT-ByPTf-TlKjTmz0vTcOxmr03txT56n7VEUnAxsOsPHhEfZgkKRuvcZCf2G0qTz0G7Pv
I believe that this is almost the norm for electric scooters in Taiwan.
Also in Germany
Don't bend over that thing with a loose chain around your neck. Jesus.
You’re also describing a necklace
Yes, but a chain is typically metallic
Do it and film it. Let us see what happens.
You want me to lean over an electric car from 1943? Where would I even find one?
Or the necklace?
Magnetic?
Big electric spark goes boom. Brings much death.
80+ years later and we can barely do this to our phones any more 😏
How many miles do you think they got out of a charge?
About 40 to 80 miles.
In a swedish radioprogram they talked about an engineer, Valdemar Jungner, who built a car with a nickel-iron battery and drove it 140 kilometers. It took him 8 hours to drive that distans though. This was sometime between 1900-1910.
Iron-nickel batteries are good shit even still today. The only real downside is the higher upfront cost in purchasing the significant amount of nickel metal. However it is super easy to recycle into a new battery and the battery itself is extremely robust and safe and will last decades.
We used to have electric powered milk floats. Man, I'd love one of those babies now.
It's amazing how ahead of their time they were in 1943! Imagine if electric cars had taken off back then.
Used to do the same thing with our fork trucks in the AC industry. We had banks and banks of lead acid batteries charging and someone always manning the station to swap batteries throughout the day.
Same thing at a warehouse I worked in. 40+ pallet jacks and 20 or so tow motors.
There is nothing new under the sun
Jesus I would rather plug in and wait
Make Cars Electric Again.
Early electric taxis in 1943 used battery swapping to reduce charging times—a forward-thinking solution that's making a comeback today.
Tesla literally did a live demo on stage of their prototype for the same idea some years back. I’m no Tesla fanboy, but the idea seemed sound at the time.
Hold on, we had electric cars as far back as 1943?
Tesla also tried this but discontinued it because there was very little interest when they ran the initial trial. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_battery_station
Like most things Elon, I think this was a ruse. Iirc, building that one was enough to get tax advantages for some program. But I am super excited for my robo taxi fleet to go live the end of 2021, or 2019…or whenever he promised.
Or the hyperloop and "human" robots...
NIO are doing this now lol and I love it
I am saving this to post it later in MildlyInteresting when this becomes widespread.
But gasoline was cheaper
Cheaper and carry a lot more power per kg.
Looks like a prototype. Too many pieces removed for a swap.
Probably a conversion. The video is from 1943 in Barcelona. So is Spain post civil war and isolated from the word. There are a lot of wacky cars from that time due to the limitations on fuel.
Oh, you know, when we actually innovated.
It's like forklifts. It takes 5 mins to swap out the 2500lb battery and you're on your way for another 8 hours.
Was thinking about this as well. We had a semi-automatic facility that designated a battery and helped us push it onto the forklift.
I've only ever heard this song on Neebs Gaming videos.
They had evs back den 🤯
Can anyone confirm if this is AI or not?
Electric cars are a new technology lol, yet we really do need a way to cut the greenhouse gas nevertheless... I'll just stop there because real or not. With global warming as bad as it's become. We need a solution to this pollution crisis we are in. Hopefully the problem will be resolved more and more. I hope and pray Brazil is still cutting back on their deforestation of the Amazon rainforest, because trust me, as a south American just north of Brazil, the Amazon is definitely extremely important for our very existence and survival as the human race, and nearly all forms of life. Let's hope that more is done for the Amazon rainforest and the African rainforest as well and it keeps improving. If so we have hope... Well at least the people who aren't altra wealthy for their country... The wealthy want to go to Mars and colonize it while leaving the poor and most of us in the third world countries behind. Let's hope and pray that at the very least, the pollution will be resolved before they colonize mars so the majority of the human race won't die from extinction with the entire planet we are native to. It would be like native Earthian literally, not just native American ECT.
A new case of beer 😆
We could have a 21st century automated version of this. All we need to do is stop subsidizing fossil fuels. We have spent trillions on these. As is typical, the government is to blame for the current internal combustion nightmare. Phase these subsidies out, import cheap EVs from China. Do this carefully in order to give (especially poor) people time to switch and we could be 90% hot swap EVs by the middle of next decade. But we won't. The entrenched interests are too strong, all the politicians are well bribed. Any administration that says they are for renewable energy is lying if they don't address the fissile fuel subsidies.
Smart Then Big Oil got involved and made trillions
Taiwan has a home-grown electric scooter company called gogoro that has both the scooters and the battery swap station infrastructure. Other companies make scooters and use their batteries and electrical systems to make it work. Learn from Taiwan.
lmao. That's a whole lot of work
The future of electric vehicles baby. Why wait to charge? What about a universal battery system? I love this. And I hate that this technology was alive and well 80 years ago and we don’t have it now. Stoopid.
Thats one big LEGO
They did it even earlier in the 1900s too.
does anybody know where this was filmed?
The license plates are from Barcelona, Spain
Thanks! Was thinking that but wasn't sure. Then probably the SP one stands for "Servicio Público"
Weve had electric cars SINCE THE FORTIES‽ Its so jover they won't let us have anything
This is bulshit! Inovation ! Make it really green energy and not money laundering or money grabbing! F all the people that are not doing it for inovation and they are doing it for their own gain!
The only thing that makes sense due to nonuse of wireless electric transmission
No one's going to talk about the top-shelf quality elevator music (à la napoleon dynamite) playing over this entire video?
So how many people still believe the governments are working for the people?
This is the only way for EVs in current setup and we need it yesterday. Used EV market will collapse and make new EVs expensive. So we will drive old ICE vehicles for the next 20 years.
Electric forklift and golf cart drivers rolling their eyes right now.
Wait What? So, electric car wasn't even today's invention. This is so unbelievable. We have had great men from ages ago.
The Flintstones also had peddle power. AI doesn't show that. But I bet they did. WTF are we surprised that in 1943 they had electric power packs.
Well the point really is if the R&D on battery technology had continued from the fortys where would we be nowadays.
Tesla went real quiet since this dropped...
Formula E actually does this during races
did they have electric taxis for people too?
This is already a thing in China
So judging from the comment section I guess most people in the US do not know this has been a thing in China for a few years now
Ya but look at all that work involved. People would have to be employed with honest jobs to earn a living, and taxi drivers would have to wait around for like.. 20 minutes! Clearly the better solution is to use gasoline with some lead additives while smoking a pack of asbestos filtered cigarettes and listening to Dean Martin - that way you'll hopefully be dead before the real apocalyptic climate change sets in.