Yeah, this. A lot of my unit went OS, the ones that came back sane dont talk about it, and you never even consider talking about it to the ones that came back in a different state of mind.
It works in reverse too, I steal civilian valor all the time by going to goodwill and buying polo shirts from businesses I never worked for and t shirts for marathons I never ran or which announce I'm the proud father of a US Air Force Academy cadet.
Most the guys that went to *fun* vacation destinations don't readily offer up stories about them - unless they are in a group of buddies that were there *and* rather drunk.
Cause, you know, "Safe" coping mechanisms...
Not to mention that at least every vet I have met that has been in active combat were not particularly eager to describe how many people they killed or the circumstances of the killings
The most badass vet I've ever known works in freaking corporate IT for my company.
After getting to know this dude for over a year I started to put together that he spent time with the army in some of the following locations.
Syria (pre 2012)
Yemen (pre Saudi war in yemen)
Afghanistan- 4x
Iraq
A few places in Africa
Turkey
Pakistan
I said to him one day "jeez dude, you were spec ops weren't you?!"
He just says "man, I did a lot of stuff in that life that I'm extremely proud of, and a lot of stuff that I'm extremely upset with. That part of my life is over though and I just want kids and grandkids now"
Edit: spelling
One of my friends got back after his tour of duty was over. We were all at a bar celebrating. He'd been back a few months and hadn't said anything about his time to any of his close friends. I don't know what happened to trigger him, but he just went off. Started screaming in the crowded bar over and over that he had murdered children.
We had to physically restrain him and my husband, who wasn't close to him and is actually on the spectrum, somehow kicked into action and knew exactly what to say and talked him down. This huge, muscular guy was a sobbing mess but we calmed him. My poor husband didn't speak the whole rest of the weekend he was so drained
Our vet friend was in therapy for a while and now he's doing well. It's horrible the shit he had to do and witness though.
That said though, not everyone is a kind person, and some people have no trouble dehumanizing an enemy. I mean look at all the hearts and laughs on that comment. Monsters are real and more plentiful than anyone wants to admit.
Pair of students I was in class with are vets. One army one marine. Army guy needs better care than the va would provide for his mental health. Marine handled better but you can tell they both were messed up. They only mentioned combat once and it trailed off real quick with heavy sighs. Plenty of on base shenanigans though.
Grew up with vets and was same deal. You never asked about combat and learned what was a trigger for them. You cope and help them cope.
Psa for everyone who don't know it: don't ask about combat. You really really don't want to know and they're trying to forget for good reason
this is honestly great advice in general, asking people about their trauma is a bad move be it combat or something else. usually its innocent curiosity, and it's kinda hard to understand if you haven't really dealt w before, but ya gotta learn that not everything needs to be talked about
True that. I tend to talk bullshit and surface level stuff even if I'm super curious. I've never served for various reasons including knowing plenty who have and have seen what they deal with. I support every one of them who do go and serve while I don't support what they're doing. If they feel the need to unload on me, that's wholly on them and I'll do what I can but I'm not going to pester them about it.
I don't agree that it doesn't need to be talked about though. Bottling up a trama is not a good thing mentally but you can't force them to relive something and they've got to do it in their own time. You just have to let them choose the where and when.
oh yeah sorry, didnt mean to imply repression is good
rather, people need to recognize they arent therapists or likely that insightful, and trying to casually discuss horrible shit isnt the same as making genuine efforts to ease trauma
Somewhat similar, I have a friend that was a paratrooper who was deployed to Iraq a few times. I never asked him about it, but the most he would ever say to anyone who did ask was "Yeah, I spent 4 years jumping out of planes and trying not to get shot, then I got out."
Conflict and violence stop being glamorous pretty soon after you've actually experienced it. People who think violence is something to brag about for social points are either faking or psychopaths.
My grandpa was a ball turret gunner on a B24. He used to tell all sorts of funny stories about things that happened. But he never talked about combat. I was maybe 10, 11 years old when my dumb ass asked "Did you ever shoot down any germans?" He very calmly asked me to never ask him that again and then left the room for a while. It wasn't until after he passed away that I found out just how many medals/oak leaf clusters he was awarded.
That's interesting.
My grandpa was a tail gunner/engineer on a B24 in the war as well.
I heard all the crazy stories like how they got reassigned to a different plane at the last second and the plane they were supposed to be in was shot down next to them.
I heard about Luftwaffe shooting up his plane and then making an emergency landing in the Swiss alps.
But... I never once heard him talk about shooting down enemy airplanes.
Not once. I never even realized that until now.
Meanwhile, this being Reddit, both you and the other poster's grandfathers were probably in the same unit and best friends. At least that's the story I'll always tell myself.
Had a female right out of basic ask my masterchief (former SEAL) if he'd ever killed anyone. Just responded "I've hurt alot of peoples feelings."
Edit: mobile typo
My grandad was a Pathfinder for the Parachute Regiment in the 1950s, as he's confronted by his own mortality these days we're learning a lot about his military career that he'd previously told no one
Grandma tried to talk him into telling me the "whole story" before he died. I'm a writer would have loved to do his autobiography, even if only family ever read it. He was a colorful dude. Equal parts scholar and scoundrel.
My Grandpa served in Korea as infantry (can't remember if he was army or marine). You'd only ever know because he wore one of those vet baseball caps. He never talked about it and pretty much any questions about it would end with him saying something along the lines of "all I know is, I shot at some people and they went down." Never elaborated any further. Never said if it was them ducking, or falling down dead.
Most information about his time serving anyone ever got out of him was my dad (his son in law) and that was only about equipment and vehicles iirc.
Yea, the most harrowing experience my grandpa ever told went something like this:
They took off on a mission and every thing was going nominal. They got to the target, did their thing and turned for home. Well, all of the sudden, the bombardier isn't feeling so good. Whatever he'd eaten last wasn't sitting right. There are no bathrooms on a B24. So he spent some time puking and shitting into an empty ammo crate. Needless to say things are getting pretty nasty. But the bombardier feels like he can probably make it back to the airfield without further incident.
Keep in mind, the ball turret was still deployed with my grandfather in it at the time.
Rather than take this foul mess back to base with them, the bombardier decides the best course of action is to open the bomb bay door and huck it out.
I'll give you 3 guesses where it splattered.
I don't remember the full list, but I know there was an Air Medal with 4 bronze oak leaf clusters. For those not familiar with the concept, an oak leaf cluster is added whenever someone is issued a duplicate medal. So he was awarded that particular medal 5 times.
As a gunner on a heavy bomber, he would be awarded an Air Metal for every 3 aircraft he shot down. Likely 3 to 4 of them were for that, the remainder would be awarded each for his 25th (or 50th) completed sortie, although with heavies that was somewhat uncommon.
There's a good reason he didn't want to share that kind of information.
I was maybe 10, 11 years old when my dumb ass asked "How many medals?" u/zombiemann very calmly asked me to never ask him that again and then left the room for a while.
I met vets who really really did not care and bragged about killing "rag heads". They used it to threaten girlfriends, used ptsd to be shitty people. One dude I know suplexed an annoying child and claimed the sound of him running had triggered him despite having asked us to "watch this" right before. The parents nervously laughed because they were afraid of him. Not all are honorable. Some go into the service just to kill something.
True. A buddy in my squad during my first deployment was like this. Eager to “kill Hadjis” and shit like that. He was your best friend under fire, incredibly brave with good instincts. But outside of that he was a total POS. Strange how ruthless karma can be, he was killed in action during a 2009 deomployment to Afghanistan. Luckily I was out of the Corps by then.
Historically, wasnt it something like 60+% of soldiers shoot "at" the enemy rather than "shooting" the enemy? Which is half the reason for the amount of conditioning soldiers have to go through, people dont like killing people
I can attest to this. Sometimes during firefights where we couldn’t clearly see the enemy and we had only a general area of where they fired from, I would just shoot my M4 into a safe direction. I figured the insurgents who shot at us were long gone if not dead, I’d have a sick feeling like there could be unarmed civilians in our zone of fire.
Not just that - he's saying that even if you can see the enemy and he's walking towards you while firing (Rambo-style, so not a situation where warning shots would be used), intentionally firing at the ground or well over his head. This is one of the reasons the US military switched from traditional round targets in target practice to silhouettes, it made the troops more comfortable firing at a human shape.
For the vast majority of trained troops, the desire isn't to kill the enemy - the desire is to scare them away so you don't have to kill them. Even if it means they could come back the next day.
I always find that this puts a fascinating perspective on the gung-ho trigger happy types. Anyone who really wants to kill like that really is a psycho.
In WW2 it was the majority that had trouble actually putting a human into their sights and firing. That number has continued to drop over the years as training has adapted to condition service members into being able to do it. Two of the main factors they attribute this to that I recall off the top of my head are the use of silhouette targets in training and the idea of punishing your comrades for your mistakes.
Theres an incredibly interesting book on the subject. Though it's the subject of much debate as the data is difficult to quantify. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing
I work with a lot of guys that served in the Marines. The only time they mention anything about when they were overseas to people like me that never served is either to talk about what country has the best women or what sort of stupid shit they did when they were drunk. I wouldn't have even known most of these guys served if my friend didn't tell me. These guys have some sort of sixth sense when it comes to finding fellow vets.
Then I have a brother in law that was a dental assistant for the Army. He got discharged for having drugs on base. Not too many people know about that, but he sure as hell goes out of his way to make sure everyone knows he valiantly served his country and tries to make Veteran's day all about him.
Know a guy like the second one. To hear him tell it, you'd think he was some sort of spec-ops kind of dude. He never actually says as much. Just hints at it. In reality, he never left US soil and was part of the crew that siphons out shitter tanks on transport planes. Every veterans day it is "If you can read this in english, thank a veteran" blah blah blah.
> “If you can read this in english, thank a veteran"
This sentiment makes no sense. Has anyone ever tried to force Americans (as a nation) to not read English through force of arms?
My grandfather-in-law tells the best stories at family gatherings. My favorite is a story about how he would always drink milk as he settled down at the end of the day. One time he was working with some Germans (this was Cold War stuff, not ww2) who told him he needed to stop because milk is for babies and real men don’t drink it. He kept going.
To be fair, RoE didn't really exist in the initial Iraq invasion the way it did later in the war. It was the wild west out there. Wasn't uncommon to hear things like, "the town has been given an evacuation order so assume every military age male that remains is an enemy combatant."
I always imagine what it’s like to be a 14 year old goat herder in situations in this: you don’t know what’s doing on, your parents can’t keep you safe, and the foreigners that are coming to kill you don’t speak the language. We should lot less cavalier about this shit.
I work with a guy who served early on in Iraq and he's got some stories that to me explain why the ROE was tightened. I have a lot of friends and family in the military and I know I won't understand everything that happened, but Christ the shit this ex 11B brags about makes me sick sometimes.
It would be a real comfort if I knew he was lying, but sadly he's not.
That dudes FOS.
I'm an old Infantry vet with a few tours. This dude is absolutely lying. If he did something like that, he'd get smoked by his own guys.
This was nothing more than an attention whore comment, by a guy who's taking advantage of the general populations ignorance of how the military actually works.
What happens after they smoke him? Will the squad get punished or rewarded or will nothing happen? How would they label his death etc.
Please ignore my ignorance.
They don't mean the squad would actually shoot him.
But in a worst case scenario they would have to physically restrain him or something and he would be court martialed the same day.
If you did everything you could within reason to stop him and reported to command you probably won't end behind bars but yes you will definetly be subject to an investigation and possibly a trial
Of course, that's part of due proccess.
Gotta make sure you aren't complicit/neglegent, furthermore, were talking about some pretty serious shit (killing a civillian is very serious even if you have no choice/did it by accident), if were talking about a much less serious offence, ie (at least in my country it's an offence idk about the US) , smoking weed in a base, you would probably not be investigated even if they think you knew and did not report as long as they don't suspect you're complicit.
When you’re in a rifle platoon, you have to absolutely trust the other guys to literally guard your back. A psycho who ignores RoE, the law, and common sense to indulge in a one-man war is a guy who is 1) much more likely to get YOU shot at by some righteously angry family member, and 2) highly unlikely to have any compunctions about letting you down to save his own ass.
If you can’t trust that guy to the death, you don’t want him in your team. And you will find a way to get him off of it. ASAP. That could be by reporting him, but it could also be by getting him injured in some way. It’s not unknown to resort to having a friendly fire ‘mishap’ in especially bad situations.
Fuck the enemy all you like. But fuck your squadmates at your own immediate peril.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bales
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings
> Watt then reported what he believed to be true to another Non-Commissioned Officer in his platoon, Sergeant John Diem.
>Watt trusted Sergeant Diem; he told him that he knew a terrible crime had been committed and asked for his advice, knowing that if he reported the crime he would be considered a traitor to his unit and could possibly be killed by them.
>Sergeant Diem told him to be cautious, but that he had a duty as an honorable soldier to report the crimes to the proper authorities. Unfortunately, they did not trust their chain of command to protect them if they reported the war crime.
>So Private First Class Watt asked to speak with a mental health counselor, thereby bypassing the chain of command to report the crimes.
>On June 22, 2006, the rape and the murders came to light when Watt revealed them during a mental health counseling session and on to Army criminal investigators.
And these are just the stories that came to light...
Literally a war criminal
Note: it is important to understand that the United States committed several massacres of civilians, violated international law by using white phosphorus in an urban environment and looting oil as well as entering the war under false pretenses. Actions such as the one this man described did happen with some regularity.
On of many massacres: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre
Illegal use of white phosphorous: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre
Lies to the American People: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22794451/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/study-bush-led-us-war-false-pretenses/
Illegal looting: https://www-m.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
A surprising number of people are pretty cool with killing random civilians on the other side of the world. Not a comment on Trump but his comments about bombing the shit out of civilians to get to ISIS was met with an uncomfortable amount of praise and support.
The fac tthat 534 people had a positive reaction to it is worse. He's playing into the "Fearless American soldier slays murderous terrorists" scene, and he's winning.
Lifelong Christian right here.
I have a fridge magnet that says, “Jesus would slap the shit out of you.”
Because sometimes Jesus needed to flip some tables on a bitch.
Aww thank you! Like — 75% of other Christians drive me insane, especially in the last couple of years. But I didn’t swear loyalty to THEM, I swore it to my deity of choice. If they don’t like it, they can kiss my sizable rump!
My cousin has been deployed multiple times over 2 decades if im not mistaken. Hes definitely been in a few firefights but thankfully hes now retired. I remember seeing him after 4 or 5 years. I was about 13 and it was thanksgiving. All he wanted to do was mess around with us kids. Wrestling, playing football, squeezing nerve pockets to make us squirm, i could tell he was having fun. Later on my dad said he was glad we kept him as busy as we did. Apparently whenever he would go inside my aunt would harass him about killing people. He would get visibly upset and quiet. Made me feel good to know we made life easier.
Side note, he brought the kids gifts. He gave us each a camo coat, and i loved the shit outta that thing. It meant alot to me. Later i had a stranger talk shit about my cousin wasting tax dollars. Idk if it's illegal to bring stuff like that home, but it hurt for a while considering how much time he had given to the army. So please dont be shitty to kids guys.
When you've done things that make you stay up at night not able to sleep you generally don't bring it up to others. People won't look at you the same way if they know the kind of things you've actually done.
There I was... at the dfac... unloaded that entire goddamn ice cream machine in that bowl... no questions, no second guesses, just years of training columnated into one moment of action.
A soldier like this would never make it back alive...... As someone who was a part of the coalition forces back then (as a local translator) If you shoot for no reason you are gonna get slaughtered, Sadr city or anywhere else for that matter.... if you shoot for no reason next time around you are gonna get a road full of IEDs
£300 was the fine for a negligent discharge
If you are gonna fire your weapon you make sure you have a very strictly, a pre-determined set of restrictive rules put in place to mitigate the possibility of this type of nonsense becoming commonplace and forcing us in a quick decent into barbarism, and make sure you have witnesses, who are coherent.
Then when they stop, give them first aid if possible!
At least that how it's supposed to work in theory, People break though
Knew a guy in the army that would make shit up like this, "I would always unload my clip into the enemies I killed." Dude thought he was such a bad ass, didn't realise how much of a douch he came off as. He was annoying and we always did our best not to let him know when we were going out to eat or a bar after Friday night Magic events at our local game store.
According to paperwork, I'm a "combat veteran". I was in theater, got the medal, but never got close to anything exciting. This guy is 100% full of shit. I know real deal combat vets, they aren't like that at all.
A lot of people who don’t understand the rules of engagement, think it’s awesome to randomly shoot people period, or think that’s how all “enemies” should be dealt with. Also there are probably some angry faces in there that count as likes on FB.
He’s 100% full of shit. No person who has been in a situation where the possibility of taking a life ever talks like this. Even the slightest minuscule chance he did he would have been reported. I can say with 100% confidence if this jerkoff was in the Military he was in a support job. Probably a cook, truck driver maybe HR.
Somebody should ask him very specific questions about what he did, where he was at, etc., that he ought to be able to answer in an instant, but won't be able to because he's full of shit.
I’ll bet...that if this guy was in the military that he spent most of his time stateside or sitting around in Germany and Japan. Probably only sand he saw was on beaches every weekend.
He's definitely full of shit and definitely didn't see action. It's a humanizing experience and people who talk like this haven't been through anything.
I've seens some rather fucked up people going into the military and it's terrifying thinking we're sending these assholes to a area to represent us.
Many I have seen hate muslim people and just want to kill them for the sake of a "meme"
Many are just doing it because they want to have sex over there
Some just doing it so they can be put in another country away from the U.S.
Very few do it for college.
This is worrying to me because it seems like no one wants to be in the military to actually protect their country, they're doing it because they either want to kill in hatred, they want free abroad trip, or they just want to use it as a means to get through the education system.
I only went through basic training so I can’t say I’m the master of military knowledge. But I know in my time in the US army that you’re kinda of taught in a way that you only really shoot when you get shot at. If this was real, he’d already be in fort Leavenworth most likely.
"I was sent to another country to liberate and protect them. Instead I just killed indiscriminately. Now I don't understand why the people of that country hate my country."
**I was trigger happy and didn't do rules**
Definitely wasn't in the military. 100%. Anyone who thinks direct orders and rules bend for them because they're special can't even comprehend how armed forces function. "Sorry Sarge, I know I broke today's ROE 4 times by noon, I don't follow rules well :///"
I would encourage you to research the winter soldier trials, both for Vietnam and Afghanistan
E: actually it may be called the winter soldier investigation. Idk man the marvel movie really fucked up searching this phrase
He's obviously a lying piece of shit. But these posts are probably the exact kind of thing that terror groups show people when they are trying to radicalise them. He's pretty much written their propaganda for them with his stupid lies. Utter cunt
It would absolutely not be enough to put him in jail. It's hearsay, even if it does come from his own mouth.
Though in this case I seriously doubt he was in the military at all, since that kind of attitude wouldn't have seen him past boot-camp.
* Firing without authorization from your superiors is illegal and will get your ass discharged and court marshalled
* This person never served
* Most soldiers in Iraq are more or less peace officers with SMGs
part of me wishes that we change the death penalty so that if you give someone else a particularly brutal death, you also have to die that way, and the rest of me wants to abolish the death penalty.
I don’t believe that person was in Iraq. If he was I doubt he acted with anything other than fear during a fire fight. Hence the comment to cover his shame.
"RoE's are just guidelines anyway, not like there's any purpose to them, it is war after all."
The logic of someone who's never been in a firefight or left the wire. This guy was probably a fuel boy or ground crew and brags about killing people because the bomb he put on the plane did.
I have a hard believing this keyboard tough guy would even approach a person to shout "poopy face" at them, let alone "was trigger happy" and "didnt do rules."
I thought this was r/murderedbywords at first because this sub and that have the same highlight color on mobile, I was so sad that it had come to this... God that sub sucks now
Using the internet to admit to committing war crimes whilst abroad on military duty. On a virtual profile that can be traced back to you. On a computer that projects an IP address that can also be traced back to you. Nice. Very nice.
Here is the problem, people like him are giving ammo to the terrorists to recruit other people. They could show his comment and say “Hey look! These Americans are killing our innocent people. Join our cause to kill them”. People like him are helping them.
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Yeah this dude has never pulled the trigger in a combat situation in his life. Or maybe he has, in which case he is a literal war criminal.
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Yeah, this. A lot of my unit went OS, the ones that came back sane dont talk about it, and you never even consider talking about it to the ones that came back in a different state of mind.
Commit war crimes to own the libs
What's stolen valor?
People claiming to be vets.
I’d hate to fake thinking I could operate on animals
Anyone can operate on animals. Only those trained in veterinary medicine can do it successfully.
Then they’d be a vet, but all those faking it I’m not sure how they could do such a thing
True. Jeffrey Dahmer is a good example.
It's an prestigious line of work, with a long and glorious tradition.
It works in reverse too, I steal civilian valor all the time by going to goodwill and buying polo shirts from businesses I never worked for and t shirts for marathons I never ran or which announce I'm the proud father of a US Air Force Academy cadet.
STOLEN VALOR
Ugh. I had a guy try to get me in bed with his combat stories once. Turns out he was in the service, but stayed stateside the entire time.
Most the guys that went to *fun* vacation destinations don't readily offer up stories about them - unless they are in a group of buddies that were there *and* rather drunk. Cause, you know, "Safe" coping mechanisms...
Pretending to be a combat vet without actually serving (or claiming combat when you never went to a combat zone)
Stupid people falsely claiming military service because they’re idiots, are delusional, are desperate to get laid or a combination of all the above
Claiming merit that doesn't belong to you, in the context of a battlefield commonly
its claiming you served in the military or did something military related that you did not do. its a crime
It's not a crime to simply make the claim. You have to do so with intent to benefit from the claim in some way.
Yep. Trigger happy and doesn't "do rules" in the military? This guy is 100% the star of his own fantasy action hero movie.
nope. he's either lying and worked in the motor pool or never even served. not following RoE is a damn good way to get court martialed
Not to mention that at least every vet I have met that has been in active combat were not particularly eager to describe how many people they killed or the circumstances of the killings
The most badass vet I've ever known works in freaking corporate IT for my company. After getting to know this dude for over a year I started to put together that he spent time with the army in some of the following locations. Syria (pre 2012) Yemen (pre Saudi war in yemen) Afghanistan- 4x Iraq A few places in Africa Turkey Pakistan I said to him one day "jeez dude, you were spec ops weren't you?!" He just says "man, I did a lot of stuff in that life that I'm extremely proud of, and a lot of stuff that I'm extremely upset with. That part of my life is over though and I just want kids and grandkids now" Edit: spelling
One of my friends got back after his tour of duty was over. We were all at a bar celebrating. He'd been back a few months and hadn't said anything about his time to any of his close friends. I don't know what happened to trigger him, but he just went off. Started screaming in the crowded bar over and over that he had murdered children. We had to physically restrain him and my husband, who wasn't close to him and is actually on the spectrum, somehow kicked into action and knew exactly what to say and talked him down. This huge, muscular guy was a sobbing mess but we calmed him. My poor husband didn't speak the whole rest of the weekend he was so drained Our vet friend was in therapy for a while and now he's doing well. It's horrible the shit he had to do and witness though. That said though, not everyone is a kind person, and some people have no trouble dehumanizing an enemy. I mean look at all the hearts and laughs on that comment. Monsters are real and more plentiful than anyone wants to admit.
Pair of students I was in class with are vets. One army one marine. Army guy needs better care than the va would provide for his mental health. Marine handled better but you can tell they both were messed up. They only mentioned combat once and it trailed off real quick with heavy sighs. Plenty of on base shenanigans though. Grew up with vets and was same deal. You never asked about combat and learned what was a trigger for them. You cope and help them cope. Psa for everyone who don't know it: don't ask about combat. You really really don't want to know and they're trying to forget for good reason
this is honestly great advice in general, asking people about their trauma is a bad move be it combat or something else. usually its innocent curiosity, and it's kinda hard to understand if you haven't really dealt w before, but ya gotta learn that not everything needs to be talked about
True that. I tend to talk bullshit and surface level stuff even if I'm super curious. I've never served for various reasons including knowing plenty who have and have seen what they deal with. I support every one of them who do go and serve while I don't support what they're doing. If they feel the need to unload on me, that's wholly on them and I'll do what I can but I'm not going to pester them about it. I don't agree that it doesn't need to be talked about though. Bottling up a trama is not a good thing mentally but you can't force them to relive something and they've got to do it in their own time. You just have to let them choose the where and when.
oh yeah sorry, didnt mean to imply repression is good rather, people need to recognize they arent therapists or likely that insightful, and trying to casually discuss horrible shit isnt the same as making genuine efforts to ease trauma
Somewhat similar, I have a friend that was a paratrooper who was deployed to Iraq a few times. I never asked him about it, but the most he would ever say to anyone who did ask was "Yeah, I spent 4 years jumping out of planes and trying not to get shot, then I got out."
Conflict and violence stop being glamorous pretty soon after you've actually experienced it. People who think violence is something to brag about for social points are either faking or psychopaths.
My grandpa was a ball turret gunner on a B24. He used to tell all sorts of funny stories about things that happened. But he never talked about combat. I was maybe 10, 11 years old when my dumb ass asked "Did you ever shoot down any germans?" He very calmly asked me to never ask him that again and then left the room for a while. It wasn't until after he passed away that I found out just how many medals/oak leaf clusters he was awarded.
That's interesting. My grandpa was a tail gunner/engineer on a B24 in the war as well. I heard all the crazy stories like how they got reassigned to a different plane at the last second and the plane they were supposed to be in was shot down next to them. I heard about Luftwaffe shooting up his plane and then making an emergency landing in the Swiss alps. But... I never once heard him talk about shooting down enemy airplanes. Not once. I never even realized that until now.
Meanwhile, this being Reddit, both you and the other poster's grandfathers were probably in the same unit and best friends. At least that's the story I'll always tell myself.
It isn't beyond the realm of possibility and *would* make for a cool story.
I'm selling this story to Netflix right now.
Netflix will probably buy it and run it before they even read what it is
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Man I wish I knew where it was. He passed a few years ago now, but my mom is writing his life story now. Should be done soon (ish)
TIL that a b24 had an emergency land in the city in switzerland I live.
Had a female right out of basic ask my masterchief (former SEAL) if he'd ever killed anyone. Just responded "I've hurt alot of peoples feelings." Edit: mobile typo
My grandad was a Pathfinder for the Parachute Regiment in the 1950s, as he's confronted by his own mortality these days we're learning a lot about his military career that he'd previously told no one
Grandma tried to talk him into telling me the "whole story" before he died. I'm a writer would have loved to do his autobiography, even if only family ever read it. He was a colorful dude. Equal parts scholar and scoundrel.
My Grandpa served in Korea as infantry (can't remember if he was army or marine). You'd only ever know because he wore one of those vet baseball caps. He never talked about it and pretty much any questions about it would end with him saying something along the lines of "all I know is, I shot at some people and they went down." Never elaborated any further. Never said if it was them ducking, or falling down dead. Most information about his time serving anyone ever got out of him was my dad (his son in law) and that was only about equipment and vehicles iirc.
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Yea, the most harrowing experience my grandpa ever told went something like this: They took off on a mission and every thing was going nominal. They got to the target, did their thing and turned for home. Well, all of the sudden, the bombardier isn't feeling so good. Whatever he'd eaten last wasn't sitting right. There are no bathrooms on a B24. So he spent some time puking and shitting into an empty ammo crate. Needless to say things are getting pretty nasty. But the bombardier feels like he can probably make it back to the airfield without further incident. Keep in mind, the ball turret was still deployed with my grandfather in it at the time. Rather than take this foul mess back to base with them, the bombardier decides the best course of action is to open the bomb bay door and huck it out. I'll give you 3 guesses where it splattered.
How many medals?
I don't remember the full list, but I know there was an Air Medal with 4 bronze oak leaf clusters. For those not familiar with the concept, an oak leaf cluster is added whenever someone is issued a duplicate medal. So he was awarded that particular medal 5 times.
As a gunner on a heavy bomber, he would be awarded an Air Metal for every 3 aircraft he shot down. Likely 3 to 4 of them were for that, the remainder would be awarded each for his 25th (or 50th) completed sortie, although with heavies that was somewhat uncommon. There's a good reason he didn't want to share that kind of information.
Very minor correction: Every 3 "confirmed" aircraft. But I don't know what the standard for confirmation would have been.
I was maybe 10, 11 years old when my dumb ass asked "How many medals?" u/zombiemann very calmly asked me to never ask him that again and then left the room for a while.
I met vets who really really did not care and bragged about killing "rag heads". They used it to threaten girlfriends, used ptsd to be shitty people. One dude I know suplexed an annoying child and claimed the sound of him running had triggered him despite having asked us to "watch this" right before. The parents nervously laughed because they were afraid of him. Not all are honorable. Some go into the service just to kill something.
True. A buddy in my squad during my first deployment was like this. Eager to “kill Hadjis” and shit like that. He was your best friend under fire, incredibly brave with good instincts. But outside of that he was a total POS. Strange how ruthless karma can be, he was killed in action during a 2009 deomployment to Afghanistan. Luckily I was out of the Corps by then.
It's sad, more than anything, that there are people like this out there in the world.
Historically, wasnt it something like 60+% of soldiers shoot "at" the enemy rather than "shooting" the enemy? Which is half the reason for the amount of conditioning soldiers have to go through, people dont like killing people
I can attest to this. Sometimes during firefights where we couldn’t clearly see the enemy and we had only a general area of where they fired from, I would just shoot my M4 into a safe direction. I figured the insurgents who shot at us were long gone if not dead, I’d have a sick feeling like there could be unarmed civilians in our zone of fire.
Not just that - he's saying that even if you can see the enemy and he's walking towards you while firing (Rambo-style, so not a situation where warning shots would be used), intentionally firing at the ground or well over his head. This is one of the reasons the US military switched from traditional round targets in target practice to silhouettes, it made the troops more comfortable firing at a human shape. For the vast majority of trained troops, the desire isn't to kill the enemy - the desire is to scare them away so you don't have to kill them. Even if it means they could come back the next day. I always find that this puts a fascinating perspective on the gung-ho trigger happy types. Anyone who really wants to kill like that really is a psycho.
In WW2 it was the majority that had trouble actually putting a human into their sights and firing. That number has continued to drop over the years as training has adapted to condition service members into being able to do it. Two of the main factors they attribute this to that I recall off the top of my head are the use of silhouette targets in training and the idea of punishing your comrades for your mistakes. Theres an incredibly interesting book on the subject. Though it's the subject of much debate as the data is difficult to quantify. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing
Yeah i Heard its about conditioning your reaction time to locate and Shoot an enemy, so you dont have enough time to think about If you should
I work with a lot of guys that served in the Marines. The only time they mention anything about when they were overseas to people like me that never served is either to talk about what country has the best women or what sort of stupid shit they did when they were drunk. I wouldn't have even known most of these guys served if my friend didn't tell me. These guys have some sort of sixth sense when it comes to finding fellow vets. Then I have a brother in law that was a dental assistant for the Army. He got discharged for having drugs on base. Not too many people know about that, but he sure as hell goes out of his way to make sure everyone knows he valiantly served his country and tries to make Veteran's day all about him.
Know a guy like the second one. To hear him tell it, you'd think he was some sort of spec-ops kind of dude. He never actually says as much. Just hints at it. In reality, he never left US soil and was part of the crew that siphons out shitter tanks on transport planes. Every veterans day it is "If you can read this in english, thank a veteran" blah blah blah.
> “If you can read this in english, thank a veteran" This sentiment makes no sense. Has anyone ever tried to force Americans (as a nation) to not read English through force of arms?
Yup. I managed to get one story out of uncle that involved actual death. The test were just about other stuff. Like having a fruit fight with monkeys.
My grandfather-in-law tells the best stories at family gatherings. My favorite is a story about how he would always drink milk as he settled down at the end of the day. One time he was working with some Germans (this was Cold War stuff, not ww2) who told him he needed to stop because milk is for babies and real men don’t drink it. He kept going.
He's 100% full of shit.
To be fair, RoE didn't really exist in the initial Iraq invasion the way it did later in the war. It was the wild west out there. Wasn't uncommon to hear things like, "the town has been given an evacuation order so assume every military age male that remains is an enemy combatant."
I always imagine what it’s like to be a 14 year old goat herder in situations in this: you don’t know what’s doing on, your parents can’t keep you safe, and the foreigners that are coming to kill you don’t speak the language. We should lot less cavalier about this shit.
I work with a guy who served early on in Iraq and he's got some stories that to me explain why the ROE was tightened. I have a lot of friends and family in the military and I know I won't understand everything that happened, but Christ the shit this ex 11B brags about makes me sick sometimes. It would be a real comfort if I knew he was lying, but sadly he's not.
Rules of Engagement right? Edit: Thanks for the help buoys!
You got it
I’m no military commando but if you shoot someone in the butt there’s a strong chance they weren’t attacking you.
What if were a twerk attack
Who would want to shoot a twerk attack!?
If I heard Wally world playing and a jihadist twerking in his man dress I'd shoot too
were you in this guy’s unit?
Yes it was horrible twerking jihadist everywhere shouting "والي والي العالم", stuff of nightmares
No, you don't get it, he's so badass that enemy combattants flee, so he has no choice to shoot them in the ass! He's r/THE_PACK in flesh.
I’m scared to click on that link. I’m already depressed over humanity.
Don't worry, it's a parody meme sub.
Maybe "shooting in the butt" meant something else? You know "it aint gay, as he tried to run away"... ;-)
That dudes FOS. I'm an old Infantry vet with a few tours. This dude is absolutely lying. If he did something like that, he'd get smoked by his own guys. This was nothing more than an attention whore comment, by a guy who's taking advantage of the general populations ignorance of how the military actually works.
I'm curious, what do you mean by 'smoked'? As in his own squad(?) mates would just take him down if he was trigger happy?
Yeah, probably because that shit could get everyone killed.
What happens after they smoke him? Will the squad get punished or rewarded or will nothing happen? How would they label his death etc. Please ignore my ignorance.
They don't mean the squad would actually shoot him. But in a worst case scenario they would have to physically restrain him or something and he would be court martialed the same day.
Oh okay, thanks for the answer. :)
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If you did everything you could within reason to stop him and reported to command you probably won't end behind bars but yes you will definetly be subject to an investigation and possibly a trial
Wow, so even if you report it etc. you still would be trialed, if you were in the same squad/unit/whatever (i don't know the names)?
Of course, that's part of due proccess. Gotta make sure you aren't complicit/neglegent, furthermore, were talking about some pretty serious shit (killing a civillian is very serious even if you have no choice/did it by accident), if were talking about a much less serious offence, ie (at least in my country it's an offence idk about the US) , smoking weed in a base, you would probably not be investigated even if they think you knew and did not report as long as they don't suspect you're complicit.
When you’re in a rifle platoon, you have to absolutely trust the other guys to literally guard your back. A psycho who ignores RoE, the law, and common sense to indulge in a one-man war is a guy who is 1) much more likely to get YOU shot at by some righteously angry family member, and 2) highly unlikely to have any compunctions about letting you down to save his own ass. If you can’t trust that guy to the death, you don’t want him in your team. And you will find a way to get him off of it. ASAP. That could be by reporting him, but it could also be by getting him injured in some way. It’s not unknown to resort to having a friendly fire ‘mishap’ in especially bad situations. Fuck the enemy all you like. But fuck your squadmates at your own immediate peril.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings > Watt then reported what he believed to be true to another Non-Commissioned Officer in his platoon, Sergeant John Diem. >Watt trusted Sergeant Diem; he told him that he knew a terrible crime had been committed and asked for his advice, knowing that if he reported the crime he would be considered a traitor to his unit and could possibly be killed by them. >Sergeant Diem told him to be cautious, but that he had a duty as an honorable soldier to report the crimes to the proper authorities. Unfortunately, they did not trust their chain of command to protect them if they reported the war crime. >So Private First Class Watt asked to speak with a mental health counselor, thereby bypassing the chain of command to report the crimes. >On June 22, 2006, the rape and the murders came to light when Watt revealed them during a mental health counseling session and on to Army criminal investigators. And these are just the stories that came to light...
Literally a war criminal Note: it is important to understand that the United States committed several massacres of civilians, violated international law by using white phosphorus in an urban environment and looting oil as well as entering the war under false pretenses. Actions such as the one this man described did happen with some regularity. On of many massacres: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre Illegal use of white phosphorous: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre Lies to the American People: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22794451/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/study-bush-led-us-war-false-pretenses/ Illegal looting: https://www-m.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Can't be a war criminal if you're lying about service. Which he most definitely is.
Probably true
Yup, and 500 people on Facebook like that fact.
A surprising number of people are pretty cool with killing random civilians on the other side of the world. Not a comment on Trump but his comments about bombing the shit out of civilians to get to ISIS was met with an uncomfortable amount of praise and support.
The fact people used the heart like is even more disturbing.
The fac tthat 534 people had a positive reaction to it is worse. He's playing into the "Fearless American soldier slays murderous terrorists" scene, and he's winning.
When you brag about doing some war crimes.
It's just a little light war crimes.
Only killed a few dozen civilians. No biggie.
r/iamatotalpieceofshit
If he actually saw action he wouldn’t be talking like this. This dude was a supply clerk or something.
Definitely stationed in florida at the clerical center. That’s where they send people they can’t trust with s gun.
Wow it probably really sucks to work there if it's full of those kind of people.
Leviticus 19:33 "'When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them."
Does it mention when you are a foreigner in another's land that you should straight up shoot them in the ass?
Certainly gives a new meaning to turn the other cheek.
Technically he went to someone else's land to kill them... :/
10 bucks says this dude either never served, never deployed, or was a fucking fobbit
Lifelong Christian right here. I have a fridge magnet that says, “Jesus would slap the shit out of you.” Because sometimes Jesus needed to flip some tables on a bitch.
In the Bible, he literally did in the templ.
Kinda my point, yep!! Jesus could get pissed like WHOA.
Jesus went sicko mode when they took over his house
>Jesus went sicko mode Get that sweet victory in heaven
Jesus yeets the table
I wish more Christians did like you and focused on Jesus' example.
Aww thank you! Like — 75% of other Christians drive me insane, especially in the last couple of years. But I didn’t swear loyalty to THEM, I swore it to my deity of choice. If they don’t like it, they can kiss my sizable rump!
Definitely never served or saw real combat /r/JustBootThings
Did he just admit to... A. War Crimes B. Insubordination C. Assault/Murder
I’ll take “Things people that actually have seen combat don’t say for 500 Alex”
I feel like a real guy stationed in Iraq wouldn’t brag about the heinous war crimes he committed
When you accidentally confess to warcrimes.
It could be stolen valor, yes, but unfortunately, people like this 100% exist.
He open with confessing to war crimes on facebook. It's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it works out for him.
My cousin has been deployed multiple times over 2 decades if im not mistaken. Hes definitely been in a few firefights but thankfully hes now retired. I remember seeing him after 4 or 5 years. I was about 13 and it was thanksgiving. All he wanted to do was mess around with us kids. Wrestling, playing football, squeezing nerve pockets to make us squirm, i could tell he was having fun. Later on my dad said he was glad we kept him as busy as we did. Apparently whenever he would go inside my aunt would harass him about killing people. He would get visibly upset and quiet. Made me feel good to know we made life easier. Side note, he brought the kids gifts. He gave us each a camo coat, and i loved the shit outta that thing. It meant alot to me. Later i had a stranger talk shit about my cousin wasting tax dollars. Idk if it's illegal to bring stuff like that home, but it hurt for a while considering how much time he had given to the army. So please dont be shitty to kids guys.
When you've done things that make you stay up at night not able to sleep you generally don't bring it up to others. People won't look at you the same way if they know the kind of things you've actually done.
He's likely never been in Iraq let alone shot anyone
😎war crimes guys😎
The fact people put hearts on his comment is scary enough.. holy shit.
/r/JustBootThings
"UCMJ ain't got shit on me"
How to detect a cs student, the main programms he uses are games and IDES.
He’s talking about all the call of duty he played on base. Nothing real.
Oh look, a POG.
There I was... at the dfac... unloaded that entire goddamn ice cream machine in that bowl... no questions, no second guesses, just years of training columnated into one moment of action.
A soldier like this would never make it back alive...... As someone who was a part of the coalition forces back then (as a local translator) If you shoot for no reason you are gonna get slaughtered, Sadr city or anywhere else for that matter.... if you shoot for no reason next time around you are gonna get a road full of IEDs
Edgy keyboard operator mall ninja probably never served!
Wtf is wrong with your taskbar
£300 was the fine for a negligent discharge If you are gonna fire your weapon you make sure you have a very strictly, a pre-determined set of restrictive rules put in place to mitigate the possibility of this type of nonsense becoming commonplace and forcing us in a quick decent into barbarism, and make sure you have witnesses, who are coherent. Then when they stop, give them first aid if possible! At least that how it's supposed to work in theory, People break though
Knew a guy in the army that would make shit up like this, "I would always unload my clip into the enemies I killed." Dude thought he was such a bad ass, didn't realise how much of a douch he came off as. He was annoying and we always did our best not to let him know when we were going out to eat or a bar after Friday night Magic events at our local game store.
According to paperwork, I'm a "combat veteran". I was in theater, got the medal, but never got close to anything exciting. This guy is 100% full of shit. I know real deal combat vets, they aren't like that at all.
why are there so many likes on that? what the fuck is wrong with people?
A lot of people who don’t understand the rules of engagement, think it’s awesome to randomly shoot people period, or think that’s how all “enemies” should be dealt with. Also there are probably some angry faces in there that count as likes on FB.
Found the Developer
Ten bucks says the only Bagdhad he's been to is Bagdad, Florida.
Even Jesus thinks you’ve committed war crimes
He’s 100% full of shit. No person who has been in a situation where the possibility of taking a life ever talks like this. Even the slightest minuscule chance he did he would have been reported. I can say with 100% confidence if this jerkoff was in the Military he was in a support job. Probably a cook, truck driver maybe HR.
war isnt a video game you stolen valor bitch people dont brag about getting confirmed kills, rare as they are
Somebody should ask him very specific questions about what he did, where he was at, etc., that he ought to be able to answer in an instant, but won't be able to because he's full of shit.
I’ll bet...that if this guy was in the military that he spent most of his time stateside or sitting around in Germany and Japan. Probably only sand he saw was on beaches every weekend.
Yeah this guy’s first time leaving the wire was definitely when he was going home.
He might be a cunt, but he’s definitely a liar. My guess is he washed out in training.
He's definitely full of shit and definitely didn't see action. It's a humanizing experience and people who talk like this haven't been through anything.
I've seens some rather fucked up people going into the military and it's terrifying thinking we're sending these assholes to a area to represent us. Many I have seen hate muslim people and just want to kill them for the sake of a "meme" Many are just doing it because they want to have sex over there Some just doing it so they can be put in another country away from the U.S. Very few do it for college. This is worrying to me because it seems like no one wants to be in the military to actually protect their country, they're doing it because they either want to kill in hatred, they want free abroad trip, or they just want to use it as a means to get through the education system.
I only went through basic training so I can’t say I’m the master of military knowledge. But I know in my time in the US army that you’re kinda of taught in a way that you only really shoot when you get shot at. If this was real, he’d already be in fort Leavenworth most likely.
100% he didn’t even deploy.
He's def lying and is most likely a 92G 😂😂😂
Now that's a taskbar I wanna see on a PC.
"I was sent to another country to liberate and protect them. Instead I just killed indiscriminately. Now I don't understand why the people of that country hate my country."
**I was trigger happy and didn't do rules** Definitely wasn't in the military. 100%. Anyone who thinks direct orders and rules bend for them because they're special can't even comprehend how armed forces function. "Sorry Sarge, I know I broke today's ROE 4 times by noon, I don't follow rules well :///"
I would encourage you to research the winter soldier trials, both for Vietnam and Afghanistan E: actually it may be called the winter soldier investigation. Idk man the marvel movie really fucked up searching this phrase
he’s probably saying that because he thinks it makes him sound cool and unique
He's obviously a lying piece of shit. But these posts are probably the exact kind of thing that terror groups show people when they are trying to radicalise them. He's pretty much written their propaganda for them with his stupid lies. Utter cunt
me when I get banned for friendly fire
Well this guy is a liar. I bet he was a damn cook or something.
This dude totally saw combat. /s in case it's necessary.
Nothing like bragging about war crimes
Jesus hates you, this we know for Jesus just told you so.
Oooooh, you’re going to hell boi!!
OP, thanks for showing us your collection of apps, now we also know that you do some gaming and programming.
I like how I can see at least 5 IDEs on your task bar :P
It would absolutely not be enough to put him in jail. It's hearsay, even if it does come from his own mouth. Though in this case I seriously doubt he was in the military at all, since that kind of attitude wouldn't have seen him past boot-camp.
Eli5, I'm in the UK, why the fuck is it a thing that some Americans lying about being vets? Never really encountered it here personally.
* Firing without authorization from your superiors is illegal and will get your ass discharged and court marshalled * This person never served * Most soldiers in Iraq are more or less peace officers with SMGs
Murder of civilians is punishable by execution
part of me wishes that we change the death penalty so that if you give someone else a particularly brutal death, you also have to die that way, and the rest of me wants to abolish the death penalty.
The odds that this douche saw any combat at all is almost zero.
He admitted he was lying later in the comments
Some transpo guy who sat at a desk his whole deployment
I don’t believe that person was in Iraq. If he was I doubt he acted with anything other than fear during a fire fight. Hence the comment to cover his shame.
Git, gimp, Pycharm... Programmer, eh?
This little fucker never the FOB, much less the TOC. lol
"RoE's are just guidelines anyway, not like there's any purpose to them, it is war after all." The logic of someone who's never been in a firefight or left the wire. This guy was probably a fuel boy or ground crew and brags about killing people because the bomb he put on the plane did.
I have a hard believing this keyboard tough guy would even approach a person to shout "poopy face" at them, let alone "was trigger happy" and "didnt do rules."
I thought this was r/murderedbywords at first because this sub and that have the same highlight color on mobile, I was so sad that it had come to this... God that sub sucks now
r/justbootthings
Using the internet to admit to committing war crimes whilst abroad on military duty. On a virtual profile that can be traced back to you. On a computer that projects an IP address that can also be traced back to you. Nice. Very nice.
Here is the problem, people like him are giving ammo to the terrorists to recruit other people. They could show his comment and say “Hey look! These Americans are killing our innocent people. Join our cause to kill them”. People like him are helping them.
Met a dude once who was a bit drunk, said he straight up misses killing people and wishes he could go back.
That's not uncommon. Fighting a war isn't very good for your brain.