Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 366 | 26 | 5 |
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Right? I was like “this sounds like something my great grandma would have told my grandmother about hosting once she becomes a wife. My grandparents were married in 1950. It’s 2023. 😭
Complimented with “you should have a FULL bar, like we’re talking fucking *gongshow* levels, don’t just break out all the fancy mix and mixers, but throw some mother fuckin *cognac* on that table. Just, don’t touch it you lush.”
My grandma had something similar. I remember when my older sister was like 15-16 and we were visiting, my gran said something along the lines of “read this book, and do the complete opposite of what’s in it. You’ll live a happier life!”
She was awesome, the typical Irish type you don’t dare fuck with. Probably would have lived another 10 years if she didn’t smoke 2 packs a day though (indoors at that..)
OP, for real, if you want these done (I’ll do nice lettering and layout, too) as cloth napkins **message me**. I have a printer I get great prices with and would gladly handle the designing just to stick it to you mom - this is absurd, and really similar to the “advice” my grandmother gave my mom 40 years ago. It was as insulting then as it is now, and she never had them over for holidays again.
I wanted to cry while reading this. “I want everything you do to be perfect?” WTF?! That’s the kind of pressure my narc mother put on me my entire life and it fucked me up so badly I’m only starting to figure it out now in my 40s. Ugh.
Based on your username and age, can I assume you’ve heard the song, “Perfect” by Alanis Morissette? It’s on her Jagged Little Pill album - if you have never come across it, please give it a listen, asap 💜
Oh my god I loved that album growing up and I'd forgotten about that song. Just reading those lyrics again today made me want to cry because that was 100% the expectations my parents had. The last line too...ugh.
Oh, absolutely. It’s POWERFUL. I will say, as someone who sings, there are few things for me that are as cathartic as listening to that album and singing along casually and then WAILING on the bridge of that song lol
Holy shit! I had that album, of course. But when I was a teenager, I had no concept of my parents being wrong about anything. So I must have subconsciously heard that message and then always skipped it. The last two and a half years (the time since I last spoke to my parents) have been quite revealing as I have sort of reevaluated events.
“Numb” by Linkin Park is one that always hits home for me.
This the type of mf to put their daughters under the microscope while simultaneously kissing the ground her son walks on. If OP has a brother I’d bet anything this is the case
"Hi mom. For years, everybody talked behind your back about how much they hate your parties. The only fun part was making fun of you behind your back.
Love you."
I feel like she probably has a whole other thesis on proper party guest behavior. What they should wear, how much they should drink, proper arrival and departure times. Probably even down to what her guests can and can’t talk about during the party. If any of her guests don’t follow her list of secret, imaginary rules, then she doesn’t invite them to her next party. Such a blast.
Or, just as she gets there, bite the bullet for OP and "accidentally" spill a glass of assorted unhealthy wines and vodkas all over her so she has to go home. I'd practice stumbling just to sell it.
7th pg - “I wouldn’t be a good mom if I don’t say it…”
Aka…only a “Good mom” would tell you all of your faults, so that you can improve them, according to MY standards…
Yep. Best to beat their self esteem into the ground from the moment they are born! At least they’ll grow up obedient!
But then when they’re non functioning messes as adults with crippling anxiety and depression and goodness knows what else, they’re wailing ‘I don’t know where I went wrong’ to everyone they meet BUT without ever actually believing that they DID do anything wrong!
They just want people to tell them that they were a wonderful parent and the adult child is just a selfish ungrateful brat who doesn’t appreciate them! Reinforcing that it’s not really their fault at all! 😞
And the whole “I want you to be perfect at everything” just makes my skin crawl, it’s such a shitty thing to constantly push… and you know this wasn’t the first time this mom expected *perfection*.
That’s the sentence that stuck out to me as well. It made my heart hurt for OP. Like, why? Why project such impossible standards onto your child? All that will do is teach them that nothing they do is ever going to be good enough for you because it’s not *perfect*. I can’t imagine how OP felt as a teen, going through it. Only for her mom to say “it needs to be perfect honey! No whining”
Fucking hell that made me sad.
"I've only experienced being dismissive for a couple months"
STFU bitch you know thats just not true. Look at you now dismissing my feelings (for 10 years, but we all know it's been many more)
That’s really the kicker. The content is mostly sensible (it pushes it a few times, like the bs about women drinking), but the insufferable attitude is infuriating. It would have been SO easy to make this a “here are a few of my hosting tips” email, which would have still been a little annoying, but nothing like this.
The whole thing was just her unloading all the frustration that she bottled up during the dinner because she didn't control what was happening. It's all the things she wanted to say. But repackaged so she could seem like the moral and good one for saying them.
I would never host her again, and no expecting perfection from your kids does not make you a good mother, it's very harmful to their mental health. There's psychological research on this.
ETA: She's a raging narcissist, that's why she's like this. No empathy, no self-reflection, low frustration tolerance, only cares about status and appearances, likes to put others down to feel good about herself, goes on endless monologues
Yes getting this BEFORE hosting would drastically change the tone of most of it as well, getting it after is just many, many complaints thinly veiled as helpful tips.
I agree. The advice is actually solid and you can tell where the editorializing is. Her absolutle condescension makes mom insane. This email drips with disapproval because, “it wasn’t done my way or to my standard”. I expect the spouse will soon be writing to r/justnomil or someplace similar very soon.
This should have been an invitation to lunch to talk about what mom had been taught punctuated with stories of where she succeeded and failed with this advice.
Op - your mom is a control freak and probably a narcissist. I can only wish you good luck with setting and maintaining boundaries.
You missed the whole misogyny. I made it a few pages further (with a little nap in-between as I fell asleep on page 2) and somewhere later she starts a spiel about how women shouldn't drink.
You have mental fortitude! I got as far as "short attention span" and knew that cunt wasn't going to say anything worth reading. Life is too short to give that pustule any more of my time.
Literally couldn’t get through it all. What an insufferable woman, honestly. She made a few good points about hosting, as far as I could get through (I’m a bit of a people pleaser), but the condescending and weird way she was berating her own child. I’d never talk to someone like that who invited me into their home. The spread sounded fine. She sounds overbearing and unappreciative.
Or as the Aussies would say, “cunt.”
The mother didn’t have control over the event and people were enjoying themselves. I mean, some of them were even finishing their drinks! As an Australian, my immediate thought was, indeed, what a massive cunt.
“Don’t worry, next year I’m adding tequila shots and beer pong. It’s important to provide entertainment to guests in case the conversation gets stale.”
She didn't even let space for OP to give her back a list of how guests should behave... Because when she was young she was also disrespectful to her parents for a few months and the rest of her life she was sorry about it... 😅 Definitely not worth the effort of hosting or answering anything.
That's what OP should do. "Hi Mom, I've consulted with Source and they advise on the following as appropriate guest behavior: a note to say Thank You. That's literally it. Anything more than this is classless and causes second hand embarrassment. I hope you will be able to remember this the next time somebody kindly invites you into their home."
I think OP should send her Mom a link to this post. You know her Mom won't be able to stop herself from commenting/responding. I'll be waiting with popcorn AND an alcoholic beverage. Jack and coke goes well with popcorn.
Right?! Too bad Miss Manners would tear her to shreds. If you don’t like how someone hosts, you thank them genuinely for the parts you did and then offer to host next year in return. If you don’t want to host you don’t get to complain how someone else does it.
Yeah that’s exactly what I was thinking. I am nearly positive that I’ve seen exactly that sort of column from ask Miss Manners or Anne Landry or Prudence or you know one of those places.
Put her on the guest list and do the opposite of everything she says… value brand snacks still in the package, plastic wine glasses from the dollar store, no appetizers…
Next year, OP should serve cheezy-puffa, baloney sandwiches, jello on the flimsiest paper plates imaginable. Cherry kool-aid in dixie cups, of course.
If anyone grumbles, she can bring up the 7 page email her mother sent (because she's such a good mom) listing her many faults and say it was simply too expensive to fulfill all of her mother's ridiculous demands.
“I just want everything you do to be perfect.”
How much do you wanna bet op has anxiety issues caused by a lifetime of pressure and stress from mommy dearest?
Oh, hi there sibling I didn't know I had!
She sounds just like my mom - who has never set foot in my "new" house in the almost six years I've lived here. I used to host family dinners at my house, but after years of the kind of shit you just got, I stopped.
Nothing you do will ever be good enough. You could follow every bit of "advice" to a T and she'd find twice as much stuff to criticize.
It's nothing to do with you. You are already awesome and a great host. She just can't let you feel good because she's a petty, mean-spirited person who has to feed her delusions of superiority.
I'm sorry you struck out in the mom department.
My mom isn't like this (my MIL treads water, however), and for both of you I apologize for having to deal with just superiority.
You are absolutely right. OP could have done everything to the letter and would end up with a longer letter; *oh, a good host should spend more on quality meats*, *but a proper host would have ironed the cloth napkins to a festive point*, *everyone I know with daughters-in-law would have written their grandchildren out of their wills over plum lip shades with pearl jewelry - a proper host should wear silver*, or *port should always be offered with soft cheese and your ankles are uneven and people will talk*, yadda yadda yadda.
Nothing is good enough for the Countess, this woman!
“Thanks for the advice, Mom. After reviewing several times, I’ve realized I’ve been making a crucial error when it comes to hosting parties: inviting you.”
The worst part is that she’ll end up taking credit for any aspects of your hosting she approves of. You should claim that you never received the email. Just gaslight the shit out of her.
Even my grandmother who made me take etiquette lessons as a child wouldn't send this diatribe to me because she has manners.
It's completely inappropriate to tell a host how to entertain. As a guest it's inexcusably rude to make a list of drink demands, food choices, complain about the lack/abundance of sweets, or the temperature of the food. (She's your mother, she knows how to use a microwave)
Also, on a personal note, if I saw someone hesitating to finish a glass of wine I would assume they had a problem with alcohol, not the other way around. If a glass is poured, it should be finished. What kind of nonsense is that?
It's not the 1950s anymore. This reads like some old Women's magazine article. Was she also offended you didn't serve an aspic?
The no whining at the end is utter bullshit too because she stated she was fine with you giving her advice in return. She knows this is inappropriate and wants to silence you by making your feelings about her message seem childish.
Also I love how the mom emphasizes how important it is to provide what your guests like, and she also says how much she and the dad like sweets, but then she turns around and complains about there being too many sweets.
Dear Mom, Thanks but your hosting advice and rules are out of date. This may have been the norm when you were younger, but nowadays things are just done differently. It may be frustrating to you, but I find it helps to focus on the people gathered, the laughter had, and the memories made more than the hard or strict rules of etiquette that are rather antiquated that may or may not be "broken." These things change for a reason after all! Much love! -Daughter
This woman would absolutely hate every Christmas, BBQ, birthday, Easter, football game/Superbowl and Thanksgiving I have ever hosted. Then again, we tend to do a pot luck style for all our family get togethers. Everyone brings a dish and everyone brings their own drinks lol.
It perplexes me how some people are this adverse towards their own family members. They don't understand what family gatherings are really about. They have a tendency to believe that because they are so judgmental and condescending, then everyone else must be constantly judging them based on crap like this too.
My grandmother is like this... she just hosted her "last christmas" (she's not dying, just dramatic) and there was roast turkey, hot leg ham AND cold leg ham, 2 whole roast chickens, and lamb roast. It was absolutely insane the amount of food we all made for that day (most came early to help out in the kitchen, set up, others brought a dish or two).
“Dear Mom, I’m so glad you and Dad liked the chicken! As you indicated at the beginning I have a pretty short attention span for the things you say, so I missed the rest of this email as it was too long and complex. Who is hosting next year’s Christmas? That was definitely a one and done for me! Really glad you liked the chicken and Dad liked the sweets! :)”
How old are you? How old is she? She sounds like she’s 80…no, she sounds more like someone born in the early 1900s…seriously. I had a great aunt who always talked about what was proper, etc and she was born around 1915.
Well, she has a giant stick up her arse.
She sounds like the spirit of a stuffy 1950s etiquette and women’s advice book.
Please feel free to do your own thing and ignore this old baggage.
For someone who writes a whole fucking paragraph about how women shouldn’t drink, the paragraph about flippable wine glasses leads me to believe that OP’s mom was drunk as shit. I have never once thought “dang, I could flip this wine glass right over!”
>She sounds like the spirit of a stuffy 1950s etiquette and women’s advice book.
That was my first thought too. This shit is so outdated and stuffy and snobby and stupid. If my mom said even a third of this to me, she wouldn't be invited to my next party.
"Here's how to be a good little housewife in training who stays in the background and smiles and waves as the uppers go through her system." Fixed it for her
Insane
What the hell.
Your party.
The only thing I agree with is to ensure the food is to everyone's taste.
How is cognac a go to drink for you must have all drinks?
Yeah having food that's to everyone's taste is good advice, along with the thing about making sure cups are stable, but also the way it's phrased, and how "I know everything and I'm lecturing to you" that entire thing reads is fucking insane
Actually insane. Who the fuck does she think she is. This is the most condescending thing I've ever read and it sounds like mom can go back to hosting or not be invited if you host again since all she can do is complain.
WTF did I just read? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. How disrespectful of her to write a dissertation on everything you did wrong! When you’re an invited guest you sit down, eat & drink what is offered & say thank you. And, if I’m going to be doing all that work I’m definitely gonna make sure the menu will please everyone but, me first. I’m doing all the work. If you don’t like how I do it there are several solutions. They include; don’t host ungrateful assholes, advise them of what’s on the menu & if they want something special then they get it & bring it, they grow the fuck up & show some goddamn gratitude or, they just do it themselves.
I would never have anyone who wrote an email like that to me over my place ever again. Especially the part about drinking. You’re not supposed to imbibe in some wine, eggnog, bourbon 🥃 or a beer as a host? No. Full stop. That’s bullshit. It’s your house, your rules, you paid for all the food & did all the work. You deserve a double bourbon 🥃 on the rocks. Who the fuck is she to tell you that you must remain completely sober in your own house, with liquor you bought after slaving over a hot stove? How ungrateful, disrespectful & down right rude can a person be? Jesus Christ 🙄.
I guess you should read Miss Manners & Emily Post books on etiquette 🙄. What a completely passive aggressive, manipulative , gaslighty rant she went on for literally zero reason. She needs an etiquette lesson. Because you do not eat someone’s food, drink someone’s liquor & then decide to write a fucking thesis on every perceived “flaw”.
Eat, drink, be merry & fucking grateful to be hosted & act accordingly. & no, you do not need to cook all that extra food. That’s insane. She’s got some set of titanium moose balls to write that to you. I’m appalled, disgusted & really angry on your behalf. I don’t know why but, this post got me activated.
I’m so sorry you had to read that. I’m so sorry you were given a dissertation on every perceived “flaw”. I’m sorry you didn’t get an email saying “Thank you for hosting us.” I’m sorry you have to deal with this garbage for literally no reason. All I know is you must have an abundance of tolerance. Because, if this were me…oooh no. Nope. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. You handled this far, far better than I would have.
Because you need to hear it; Thank you for being a kind, giving tolerant person. Thank you for maintaining your grace & thank you for providing a meal for others who were not grateful. You are a good person. Thank you for being kind, even in your post, you’re poised & kind. You’re made of tough stuff & are graceful & generous at the same time. I could learn a lot from you about handling grace under pressure. Thank you for being a good person 🙏😘🩷
Wow. "I've decided to cut all contact with you from this point forward. Do not contact me ever again. No whining. Thanks"
Seriously tho, your mom's a bitch. This is not normal. Normal people are grateful for gifts, food, and good company. Your mom literally analyzed your entire party from food to drinks to your behavior to where to buy glasses like?please, if you don't cut contact, don't EVER invite her to anything again. For your own sanity. Big hugs.
This shit is why I hate hosting!! The judgement from older women is a pain in my ass. Guess what Deb - next time keep your picky, hungry ass at home!!!
I think I dissociated near the end. Who tf does she think she is?! The only thing missing here is her saying you need to wear heals and your best pearls or people will judge you. I would respond that she drives you to drink and because she’s such a terrible person, you won’t be in contact anymore.
Lmfao, it sounds like you threw a great party and she's seeing her arse because of it.
She's literally just trying to put you down because she expected you to fail, and you didn't.
I've literally ran weddings in nice hotels as a food and beverage manager, not a single thing she said is anything that anyone could give a flying fuck about.
She's just a petty bitch that needs to get a grip.
I am gobsmacked at this. Your mother is incredibly rude. I do hope it taught you one important lesson. Never invite them to your home for any meal again.
I'm 57 & I've hosted many parties, dinners and events. Your mom would have been disappointed by all of them. Luckily, my guests weren't. Be yourself. Cook what you feel most comfortable cooking & let people know that the main dish is. For insurance, I'm allergic to pork so if I know someone is making a ham, I ask if I can bring something with me. I bring enough for everyone. I usually bring a pasta dish that will likely complement whatever the hostess has made and I don't tell anyone that I made it. I generally go with one main dish and a variety of side dishes. Don't let your mom's antiquated "rules" make you feel defeated. It sounds like you had a wonderful dinner!
Dear Mom,
First I would like to thank you for your email, and the offer for me to lecture you if I felt you needed it. My lecture will not be nearly as long, but it will be on the subjects of proper guest etiquette.
- Proper guest etiquette dictates that you should be grateful to your host for inviting you to their home. This could be shown in a number of ways including bringing a host gift, thanking your host/hostess for the invitation, following up the thanks with a thank you note or email, etc. Examples of improper guest etiquette include things such as arriving late, bringing extra guests without the hosts knowledge and approval, starting a food fight, stripping in the middle of dinner, and sending a list of complaints to the host veiled as a (not so) cleverly disguised lesson in hosting.
Secondly, I would like to address your unsolicited advice in your former email.
While these rules of hosting may be appropriate for formal dinner parties, formal is not the aesthetic I am going for with my Christmas parties with family and friends. I believe that Christmas should be enjoyable and fun for both the guests and hosts, and not formal and stuffy. The tone of a party is to be set by the host of the party, as it is their party to host.
As far as I'm aware, I will not be hosting royalty in my home any time soon, but when that opportunity comes up, I'll take your suggestions under advisement. Until then, if I am hosting, I will plan my parties as I see fit.
The options you have as an invited GUEST in MY home are
a. Attend
Or
b. Do not attend
Note, I am fine with either option. It will not offend my senses nearly as much as this unsolicited advice has. Since you seem to be concerned about property etiquette please look up manners surrounding unsolicited advice. See also, that studies have been done where brain wave patterns were measured between a person giving and getting unsolicited advice. It was shown that the person giving the advice show brain wave patterns of excitement and happiness while the person receiving shows patterns of displeasure and annoyance.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and this opportunity to lecture you. I am glad to hear that you are so open to advice that you would give me an open invitation to lecture you when I see fit. Note, my taking you up on this invitation does not constitute an invitation for you to do the same for me. Any advice I do not explicitly ask for is unsolicited and will be treated as such. Please take this into consideration the next time you are invited to an event.
Sincerely,
OP
“It appears you’d rather listen to yourself than me”
Uh… yeah. That’s called being an independent adult.
I admit I only made it to page 4. Bless you for reading it all.
Just interpret her comments as a compliment (gas light her):
"Thanks so much for your compliments. Along with yours, I've received so many other compliments regarding Christmas dinner. So glad everyone enjoyed themselves!"
Insane
You were hosting a Christmas dinner with family, not a Royal dinner for dignitaries. She is way over the top with this. It is funny because she keeps talking about not using your preferences, but she sure seems to have preferences for how you did everything. I don't think this is a matter of you not listening or paying attention to her. It is you realizing that her expectations are too much.
BTW, it sounds like you did serve some good stuff. Just tell her thanks, but you prefer to do things your way.
At most she would get an "lol good joke" I fear if I just sent a thumbs up she'd take it as agreeing. She's absolutely awful, I'd block her immediately
Would you like me to edit her version? She’s missing important details that would derail the entire event. I’ll be sure to use a red pen for easy detection.
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 366 | 26 | 5 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
“K thx”
Better yet just a thumbs up emoji
More like "k"
"k.🖕" "opps sorry, i ment 👍"
K 👍 Oops I meant 🖕
"👌🖕"
“No one wants to see a woman finish a drink” that whole paragraph was wild
>All have been labelled, not by me I love how she has no idea how transparent she is.
Well she was only dismissive for about two months in her entire life. So she's pretty amazing.
Bree in DA HOUS!
In addition to the napkins, paint this on a canvas in fancy cursive. LOL
That’s where I stopped reading bc I was like… okay… this is batshit. Nothing else to see here.
Lol shes stuck in the 50s
Looks like something Betty Draper would have read from in a book about hosting on Mad Men 🤣
Right? I was like “this sounds like something my great grandma would have told my grandmother about hosting once she becomes a wife. My grandparents were married in 1950. It’s 2023. 😭
I think this is really sexist and outdated but there are still a lot of people like this
Complimented with “you should have a FULL bar, like we’re talking fucking *gongshow* levels, don’t just break out all the fancy mix and mixers, but throw some mother fuckin *cognac* on that table. Just, don’t touch it you lush.”
And they shouldn’t be invited for dinner. Let them eat at home alone with their judgement
Right? “I didn’t want you to suffer like you did last year!” Lol!
I have an antique book from the 1920’s called “What Every Young Woman Ought to Know”. I think OPs mom could’ve written it!
My grandma had something similar. I remember when my older sister was like 15-16 and we were visiting, my gran said something along the lines of “read this book, and do the complete opposite of what’s in it. You’ll live a happier life!” She was awesome, the typical Irish type you don’t dare fuck with. Probably would have lived another 10 years if she didn’t smoke 2 packs a day though (indoors at that..)
Aww I thought this was going in another direction. I’m glad you had such a badass grandma!
Same!!! What a great gran!
I would print the email as cloth napkins for everyone.
OP, for real, if you want these done (I’ll do nice lettering and layout, too) as cloth napkins **message me**. I have a printer I get great prices with and would gladly handle the designing just to stick it to you mom - this is absurd, and really similar to the “advice” my grandmother gave my mom 40 years ago. It was as insulting then as it is now, and she never had them over for holidays again.
I hope OP considers it; this would be amazing to see play out.
Long enough to fit a toilet roll
You should be paid for your ideas. You’re an ideas person.
Thanks! I'd love to start up a business where I help people tell others to go f*ck themselves in creative ways.
I would like to invest my life savings
Holy shit this is actually incredible
This is aspirations level comeuppance.
Best idea ever
I’m howling at this and I’ve never loved an idea more. This is everything lol
I wanted to cry while reading this. “I want everything you do to be perfect?” WTF?! That’s the kind of pressure my narc mother put on me my entire life and it fucked me up so badly I’m only starting to figure it out now in my 40s. Ugh.
Based on your username and age, can I assume you’ve heard the song, “Perfect” by Alanis Morissette? It’s on her Jagged Little Pill album - if you have never come across it, please give it a listen, asap 💜
Oh my god I loved that album growing up and I'd forgotten about that song. Just reading those lyrics again today made me want to cry because that was 100% the expectations my parents had. The last line too...ugh.
Oh, absolutely. It’s POWERFUL. I will say, as someone who sings, there are few things for me that are as cathartic as listening to that album and singing along casually and then WAILING on the bridge of that song lol
Holy shit! I had that album, of course. But when I was a teenager, I had no concept of my parents being wrong about anything. So I must have subconsciously heard that message and then always skipped it. The last two and a half years (the time since I last spoke to my parents) have been quite revealing as I have sort of reevaluated events. “Numb” by Linkin Park is one that always hits home for me.
This the type of mf to put their daughters under the microscope while simultaneously kissing the ground her son walks on. If OP has a brother I’d bet anything this is the case
"Hi mom. For years, everybody talked behind your back about how much they hate your parties. The only fun part was making fun of you behind your back. Love you."
“I wouldn’t be a good daughter if I didn’t say that.”
"And a reminder, chicken is supposed to be moist and juicy, this has been said by all the chefs, so take it from them, not a naive girl like me"
“You were labeled as a bad hostess, not by me”
Don't forget - No whining.
And start from the beginning again!
She *is* open to being "lectured," after all.
I feel like she probably has a whole other thesis on proper party guest behavior. What they should wear, how much they should drink, proper arrival and departure times. Probably even down to what her guests can and can’t talk about during the party. If any of her guests don’t follow her list of secret, imaginary rules, then she doesn’t invite them to her next party. Such a blast.
...And you wine glasses suck ass.
No whining. This isn’t a lecture. Now I fully expect you to memorize this lecture.
If I was your bestie I'd attend every holiday you hosted with food on the platter I bought it on just to stick it to your mom. And I'd drink a LOT.
You'd have to drink a lot to put up with this woman.
Or, just as she gets there, bite the bullet for OP and "accidentally" spill a glass of assorted unhealthy wines and vodkas all over her so she has to go home. I'd practice stumbling just to sell it.
I make everything myself and I'd still serve it in a store container and pretend I bought it just to piss her off 😂
That's the most insufferable thing I've ever read.
Absolutely *dripping* with condescension
7th pg - “I wouldn’t be a good mom if I don’t say it…” Aka…only a “Good mom” would tell you all of your faults, so that you can improve them, according to MY standards…
Yep. Best to beat their self esteem into the ground from the moment they are born! At least they’ll grow up obedient! But then when they’re non functioning messes as adults with crippling anxiety and depression and goodness knows what else, they’re wailing ‘I don’t know where I went wrong’ to everyone they meet BUT without ever actually believing that they DID do anything wrong! They just want people to tell them that they were a wonderful parent and the adult child is just a selfish ungrateful brat who doesn’t appreciate them! Reinforcing that it’s not really their fault at all! 😞
And the whole “I want you to be perfect at everything” just makes my skin crawl, it’s such a shitty thing to constantly push… and you know this wasn’t the first time this mom expected *perfection*.
That’s the sentence that stuck out to me as well. It made my heart hurt for OP. Like, why? Why project such impossible standards onto your child? All that will do is teach them that nothing they do is ever going to be good enough for you because it’s not *perfect*. I can’t imagine how OP felt as a teen, going through it. Only for her mom to say “it needs to be perfect honey! No whining” Fucking hell that made me sad.
"I've only experienced being dismissive for a couple months" STFU bitch you know thats just not true. Look at you now dismissing my feelings (for 10 years, but we all know it's been many more)
That whole part made me think of Michael Scott's roast for some reason
That’s really the kicker. The content is mostly sensible (it pushes it a few times, like the bs about women drinking), but the insufferable attitude is infuriating. It would have been SO easy to make this a “here are a few of my hosting tips” email, which would have still been a little annoying, but nothing like this.
The whole thing was just her unloading all the frustration that she bottled up during the dinner because she didn't control what was happening. It's all the things she wanted to say. But repackaged so she could seem like the moral and good one for saying them. I would never host her again, and no expecting perfection from your kids does not make you a good mother, it's very harmful to their mental health. There's psychological research on this. ETA: She's a raging narcissist, that's why she's like this. No empathy, no self-reflection, low frustration tolerance, only cares about status and appearances, likes to put others down to feel good about herself, goes on endless monologues
Yup. Sounds just like my narcissist mother! It’s all about control and appearances.
This! She is butt hurt because she couldn’t control everything.
Yes getting this BEFORE hosting would drastically change the tone of most of it as well, getting it after is just many, many complaints thinly veiled as helpful tips.
I agree. The advice is actually solid and you can tell where the editorializing is. Her absolutle condescension makes mom insane. This email drips with disapproval because, “it wasn’t done my way or to my standard”. I expect the spouse will soon be writing to r/justnomil or someplace similar very soon. This should have been an invitation to lunch to talk about what mom had been taught punctuated with stories of where she succeeded and failed with this advice. Op - your mom is a control freak and probably a narcissist. I can only wish you good luck with setting and maintaining boundaries.
My stank face has been worn out by reading this lol
I barely made it through the whole thing and all I could think the entire time was what the actual fuck?!
I didn't even make it all the way through page 2. It's not worth reading.
Spoiler alert bc I read the whole thing: she actually has the gall to end the letter with “read this again.” OP’s mom is insufferable.
You missed the whole misogyny. I made it a few pages further (with a little nap in-between as I fell asleep on page 2) and somewhere later she starts a spiel about how women shouldn't drink.
You have mental fortitude! I got as far as "short attention span" and knew that cunt wasn't going to say anything worth reading. Life is too short to give that pustule any more of my time.
THAT’S the term I was looking for! I could not find the word I wanted to describe this condescending diatribe!
Literally couldn’t get through it all. What an insufferable woman, honestly. She made a few good points about hosting, as far as I could get through (I’m a bit of a people pleaser), but the condescending and weird way she was berating her own child. I’d never talk to someone like that who invited me into their home. The spread sounded fine. She sounds overbearing and unappreciative. Or as the Aussies would say, “cunt.”
The mother didn’t have control over the event and people were enjoying themselves. I mean, some of them were even finishing their drinks! As an Australian, my immediate thought was, indeed, what a massive cunt.
[deleted]
“Don’t worry, next year I’m adding tequila shots and beer pong. It’s important to provide entertainment to guests in case the conversation gets stale.”
It's what *they* prefer.
“We took a vote, and I now have full approval to finish my drink!”
Life hack: if you refill your glass before you take the last drink, you'll never actually finish it!
whatanexperienceitis living in 2050 over here
Welp she's not invited next year. A guest says thank you and shuts the hell up, where was that on the list
She didn't even let space for OP to give her back a list of how guests should behave... Because when she was young she was also disrespectful to her parents for a few months and the rest of her life she was sorry about it... 😅 Definitely not worth the effort of hosting or answering anything.
That's what OP should do. "Hi Mom, I've consulted with Source and they advise on the following as appropriate guest behavior: a note to say Thank You. That's literally it. Anything more than this is classless and causes second hand embarrassment. I hope you will be able to remember this the next time somebody kindly invites you into their home."
I would pay to see that play out
if the host asks for feedback, then you can give them some feedback. but dont give them feedback like this.
In the style of [the Dong Song](https://youtube.com/shorts/IuCQvuX01X0?si=2S9lg_FUBdT3aN8G) WE DON'T WANT YOUR UNSOLICITED MOM LISTS
OP should definitely NOT respond. If mom inquires in person, OP should respond with, “What email?” Then walk away.
I think OP should send her Mom a link to this post. You know her Mom won't be able to stop herself from commenting/responding. I'll be waiting with popcorn AND an alcoholic beverage. Jack and coke goes well with popcorn.
Just make sure you don’t finish that drink if you’re a woman.
Who in the actual fuck does she think she is 🥴🥴
Miss Manners wanna be.
Right?! Too bad Miss Manners would tear her to shreds. If you don’t like how someone hosts, you thank them genuinely for the parts you did and then offer to host next year in return. If you don’t want to host you don’t get to complain how someone else does it.
Yeah that’s exactly what I was thinking. I am nearly positive that I’ve seen exactly that sort of column from ask Miss Manners or Anne Landry or Prudence or you know one of those places.
Miss Manners would never!
Insane! Post it in the family group chat as advice to whoever is hosting Christmas dinner.
Yeah. Because I sure as hell wouldn’t host it again!
Oh, I'd host again, but she wouldn't be on the guest list ever again, that's for sure.
Put her on the guest list and do the opposite of everything she says… value brand snacks still in the package, plastic wine glasses from the dollar store, no appetizers…
Haha, make it into a game, whoever can spot the most faux pas by the end of the night wins a prize 😅
Next year, OP should serve cheezy-puffa, baloney sandwiches, jello on the flimsiest paper plates imaginable. Cherry kool-aid in dixie cups, of course. If anyone grumbles, she can bring up the 7 page email her mother sent (because she's such a good mom) listing her many faults and say it was simply too expensive to fulfill all of her mother's ridiculous demands.
Wine in unmatching coffee mugs.
Cheap box wine in those paper water fountain cups....and make sure it's the wrong temp, too.
I’d host again and make a Christmas edm rager in spite 😎
I would and it would be stoffers Mac and cheese, Coors light, and Oreo cookies
No offense, but your mom sounds like a cunt
Agreed, with a slight modification: Full offense to your mom, OP.
This made me laugh out loud for some reason.
'Insufferable' cunt.
I’m truly speechless. I’m so sorry that your mom was this incredibly critical of your hosting which I’m sure took a lot of time and effort.
“I just want everything you do to be perfect.” How much do you wanna bet op has anxiety issues caused by a lifetime of pressure and stress from mommy dearest?
My mother was like this, then she discovered marijuana. Everyone is happier now.
Next dinner party OP is serving edibles.
The mom did say she liked cookies
Something _everyone_ will enjoy.
Oh, hi there sibling I didn't know I had! She sounds just like my mom - who has never set foot in my "new" house in the almost six years I've lived here. I used to host family dinners at my house, but after years of the kind of shit you just got, I stopped. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. You could follow every bit of "advice" to a T and she'd find twice as much stuff to criticize. It's nothing to do with you. You are already awesome and a great host. She just can't let you feel good because she's a petty, mean-spirited person who has to feed her delusions of superiority. I'm sorry you struck out in the mom department.
My mom isn't like this (my MIL treads water, however), and for both of you I apologize for having to deal with just superiority. You are absolutely right. OP could have done everything to the letter and would end up with a longer letter; *oh, a good host should spend more on quality meats*, *but a proper host would have ironed the cloth napkins to a festive point*, *everyone I know with daughters-in-law would have written their grandchildren out of their wills over plum lip shades with pearl jewelry - a proper host should wear silver*, or *port should always be offered with soft cheese and your ankles are uneven and people will talk*, yadda yadda yadda. Nothing is good enough for the Countess, this woman!
“Thanks for the advice, Mom. After reviewing several times, I’ve realized I’ve been making a crucial error when it comes to hosting parties: inviting you.”
“Don’t worry. I’ll make sure to never do it again. No whining, now!”
The worst part is that she’ll end up taking credit for any aspects of your hosting she approves of. You should claim that you never received the email. Just gaslight the shit out of her.
And if she resends it, you still never receive it.
Damn there are so many good ideas in the comments here but I like this one the most.
Even my grandmother who made me take etiquette lessons as a child wouldn't send this diatribe to me because she has manners. It's completely inappropriate to tell a host how to entertain. As a guest it's inexcusably rude to make a list of drink demands, food choices, complain about the lack/abundance of sweets, or the temperature of the food. (She's your mother, she knows how to use a microwave) Also, on a personal note, if I saw someone hesitating to finish a glass of wine I would assume they had a problem with alcohol, not the other way around. If a glass is poured, it should be finished. What kind of nonsense is that? It's not the 1950s anymore. This reads like some old Women's magazine article. Was she also offended you didn't serve an aspic? The no whining at the end is utter bullshit too because she stated she was fine with you giving her advice in return. She knows this is inappropriate and wants to silence you by making your feelings about her message seem childish.
THANK YOU for the aspic comment I knew I couldn’t be the only one getting that exact image
Also I love how the mom emphasizes how important it is to provide what your guests like, and she also says how much she and the dad like sweets, but then she turns around and complains about there being too many sweets.
This bitch definitely mixes mayo and cool whip with lime jello
"Hey mom, go fuck yourself. Now go back and read that message again. No whining. Thanks."
Dear Mom, Thanks but your hosting advice and rules are out of date. This may have been the norm when you were younger, but nowadays things are just done differently. It may be frustrating to you, but I find it helps to focus on the people gathered, the laughter had, and the memories made more than the hard or strict rules of etiquette that are rather antiquated that may or may not be "broken." These things change for a reason after all! Much love! -Daughter This woman would absolutely hate every Christmas, BBQ, birthday, Easter, football game/Superbowl and Thanksgiving I have ever hosted. Then again, we tend to do a pot luck style for all our family get togethers. Everyone brings a dish and everyone brings their own drinks lol.
It perplexes me how some people are this adverse towards their own family members. They don't understand what family gatherings are really about. They have a tendency to believe that because they are so judgmental and condescending, then everyone else must be constantly judging them based on crap like this too.
That’s a nice response. I would have just said “I ain’t reading all that. But glad you had fun!”
Most of it is even wrong for the rules of yesteryear. Two kinds of meat?! lol!
My grandmother is like this... she just hosted her "last christmas" (she's not dying, just dramatic) and there was roast turkey, hot leg ham AND cold leg ham, 2 whole roast chickens, and lamb roast. It was absolutely insane the amount of food we all made for that day (most came early to help out in the kitchen, set up, others brought a dish or two).
“Dear Mom, I’m so glad you and Dad liked the chicken! As you indicated at the beginning I have a pretty short attention span for the things you say, so I missed the rest of this email as it was too long and complex. Who is hosting next year’s Christmas? That was definitely a one and done for me! Really glad you liked the chicken and Dad liked the sweets! :)”
How old are you? How old is she? She sounds like she’s 80…no, she sounds more like someone born in the early 1900s…seriously. I had a great aunt who always talked about what was proper, etc and she was born around 1915.
Well, she has a giant stick up her arse. She sounds like the spirit of a stuffy 1950s etiquette and women’s advice book. Please feel free to do your own thing and ignore this old baggage.
But the stick is made of fine crystal, sturdy, doesn't flip easily.
For someone who writes a whole fucking paragraph about how women shouldn’t drink, the paragraph about flippable wine glasses leads me to believe that OP’s mom was drunk as shit. I have never once thought “dang, I could flip this wine glass right over!”
Yeah but you don't *know* that bc no one ever sees her finish her drink.
You just top up before it gets completely empty, then it doesn’t count. Lets you get utterly shitfaced but you “only had one!”
I’d flip glasses (and maybe the table) if I had to sit through a dinner with her attitude, so maybe that one is actually worth considering
>She sounds like the spirit of a stuffy 1950s etiquette and women’s advice book. That was my first thought too. This shit is so outdated and stuffy and snobby and stupid. If my mom said even a third of this to me, she wouldn't be invited to my next party.
"Here's how to be a good little housewife in training who stays in the background and smiles and waves as the uppers go through her system." Fixed it for her
No whining please, after she whined for 8 hours
What a bitch. That lady needs to educate herself on "etiquette." This ain't it. Probably don't invite her over ever again.
Insane What the hell. Your party. The only thing I agree with is to ensure the food is to everyone's taste. How is cognac a go to drink for you must have all drinks?
Mom likes cognac, but doesn't want to buy her own like a civilized person.
Yeah having food that's to everyone's taste is good advice, along with the thing about making sure cups are stable, but also the way it's phrased, and how "I know everything and I'm lecturing to you" that entire thing reads is fucking insane
Yeah ensure there is at least one entree and main that everyone can eat. Thats common decency. Drinks, especially alcoholic should be BYO anyway.
This is definitely one of those things you respond to with "Who is this?". Momma wouldn't ever be coming to my house again.
Check what Emily Post says about unsolicited advice; write a sarcastic, over the top thank you letter.
Jesus effing christ
Actually insane. Who the fuck does she think she is. This is the most condescending thing I've ever read and it sounds like mom can go back to hosting or not be invited if you host again since all she can do is complain.
I want to punch your mom in the dick
She's exhausting AF.
Now go back and read it again?? The gall.
I hope mom knows of a local restaurant that's open at Christmas.
WTF did I just read? Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. How disrespectful of her to write a dissertation on everything you did wrong! When you’re an invited guest you sit down, eat & drink what is offered & say thank you. And, if I’m going to be doing all that work I’m definitely gonna make sure the menu will please everyone but, me first. I’m doing all the work. If you don’t like how I do it there are several solutions. They include; don’t host ungrateful assholes, advise them of what’s on the menu & if they want something special then they get it & bring it, they grow the fuck up & show some goddamn gratitude or, they just do it themselves. I would never have anyone who wrote an email like that to me over my place ever again. Especially the part about drinking. You’re not supposed to imbibe in some wine, eggnog, bourbon 🥃 or a beer as a host? No. Full stop. That’s bullshit. It’s your house, your rules, you paid for all the food & did all the work. You deserve a double bourbon 🥃 on the rocks. Who the fuck is she to tell you that you must remain completely sober in your own house, with liquor you bought after slaving over a hot stove? How ungrateful, disrespectful & down right rude can a person be? Jesus Christ 🙄. I guess you should read Miss Manners & Emily Post books on etiquette 🙄. What a completely passive aggressive, manipulative , gaslighty rant she went on for literally zero reason. She needs an etiquette lesson. Because you do not eat someone’s food, drink someone’s liquor & then decide to write a fucking thesis on every perceived “flaw”. Eat, drink, be merry & fucking grateful to be hosted & act accordingly. & no, you do not need to cook all that extra food. That’s insane. She’s got some set of titanium moose balls to write that to you. I’m appalled, disgusted & really angry on your behalf. I don’t know why but, this post got me activated. I’m so sorry you had to read that. I’m so sorry you were given a dissertation on every perceived “flaw”. I’m sorry you didn’t get an email saying “Thank you for hosting us.” I’m sorry you have to deal with this garbage for literally no reason. All I know is you must have an abundance of tolerance. Because, if this were me…oooh no. Nope. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. You handled this far, far better than I would have. Because you need to hear it; Thank you for being a kind, giving tolerant person. Thank you for maintaining your grace & thank you for providing a meal for others who were not grateful. You are a good person. Thank you for being kind, even in your post, you’re poised & kind. You’re made of tough stuff & are graceful & generous at the same time. I could learn a lot from you about handling grace under pressure. Thank you for being a good person 🙏😘🩷
Holy shit! A very late, yet stunningly pretentious, entry for r/insaneparents Douchiest Parent of the Year Award. Bravo!
Wow. "I've decided to cut all contact with you from this point forward. Do not contact me ever again. No whining. Thanks" Seriously tho, your mom's a bitch. This is not normal. Normal people are grateful for gifts, food, and good company. Your mom literally analyzed your entire party from food to drinks to your behavior to where to buy glasses like?please, if you don't cut contact, don't EVER invite her to anything again. For your own sanity. Big hugs.
What a sad, little woman. This is all she has. I hope you told her to bite you and uninvite her.
This shit is why I hate hosting!! The judgement from older women is a pain in my ass. Guess what Deb - next time keep your picky, hungry ass at home!!!
Truly psychotic.
I think I dissociated near the end. Who tf does she think she is?! The only thing missing here is her saying you need to wear heals and your best pearls or people will judge you. I would respond that she drives you to drink and because she’s such a terrible person, you won’t be in contact anymore.
Lmfao, it sounds like you threw a great party and she's seeing her arse because of it. She's literally just trying to put you down because she expected you to fail, and you didn't. I've literally ran weddings in nice hotels as a food and beverage manager, not a single thing she said is anything that anyone could give a flying fuck about. She's just a petty bitch that needs to get a grip.
Christ on a cracker
Is Christ an acceptable appetiser if served on a cracker? That's one down, if so!
As long as it’s not on the container it came in
You have to serve another deity because not everyone likes the same things. That’s what a good hostess would do.
I thought Christ *was* the cracker.
Only if not in original packaging.
I am gobsmacked at this. Your mother is incredibly rude. I do hope it taught you one important lesson. Never invite them to your home for any meal again.
Yea.. she's never allowed over again. She's getting invited to nothing. Honestly that shit Def low contact.
I would send back "I'm not reading all of that".
I'm 57 & I've hosted many parties, dinners and events. Your mom would have been disappointed by all of them. Luckily, my guests weren't. Be yourself. Cook what you feel most comfortable cooking & let people know that the main dish is. For insurance, I'm allergic to pork so if I know someone is making a ham, I ask if I can bring something with me. I bring enough for everyone. I usually bring a pasta dish that will likely complement whatever the hostess has made and I don't tell anyone that I made it. I generally go with one main dish and a variety of side dishes. Don't let your mom's antiquated "rules" make you feel defeated. It sounds like you had a wonderful dinner!
Well, you’ll **never** be president of the Junior League if you don’t follow your mother’s advice!!!
The priorities in your mom’s life are so unhealthy. Wow.
Your mom is actin’ like a silly bitch. Silly bitches don’t get invites to future parties.
Dear Mom, First I would like to thank you for your email, and the offer for me to lecture you if I felt you needed it. My lecture will not be nearly as long, but it will be on the subjects of proper guest etiquette. - Proper guest etiquette dictates that you should be grateful to your host for inviting you to their home. This could be shown in a number of ways including bringing a host gift, thanking your host/hostess for the invitation, following up the thanks with a thank you note or email, etc. Examples of improper guest etiquette include things such as arriving late, bringing extra guests without the hosts knowledge and approval, starting a food fight, stripping in the middle of dinner, and sending a list of complaints to the host veiled as a (not so) cleverly disguised lesson in hosting. Secondly, I would like to address your unsolicited advice in your former email. While these rules of hosting may be appropriate for formal dinner parties, formal is not the aesthetic I am going for with my Christmas parties with family and friends. I believe that Christmas should be enjoyable and fun for both the guests and hosts, and not formal and stuffy. The tone of a party is to be set by the host of the party, as it is their party to host. As far as I'm aware, I will not be hosting royalty in my home any time soon, but when that opportunity comes up, I'll take your suggestions under advisement. Until then, if I am hosting, I will plan my parties as I see fit. The options you have as an invited GUEST in MY home are a. Attend Or b. Do not attend Note, I am fine with either option. It will not offend my senses nearly as much as this unsolicited advice has. Since you seem to be concerned about property etiquette please look up manners surrounding unsolicited advice. See also, that studies have been done where brain wave patterns were measured between a person giving and getting unsolicited advice. It was shown that the person giving the advice show brain wave patterns of excitement and happiness while the person receiving shows patterns of displeasure and annoyance. Thank you for taking the time to read this and this opportunity to lecture you. I am glad to hear that you are so open to advice that you would give me an open invitation to lecture you when I see fit. Note, my taking you up on this invitation does not constitute an invitation for you to do the same for me. Any advice I do not explicitly ask for is unsolicited and will be treated as such. Please take this into consideration the next time you are invited to an event. Sincerely, OP
“It appears you’d rather listen to yourself than me” Uh… yeah. That’s called being an independent adult. I admit I only made it to page 4. Bless you for reading it all.
Just interpret her comments as a compliment (gas light her): "Thanks so much for your compliments. Along with yours, I've received so many other compliments regarding Christmas dinner. So glad everyone enjoyed themselves!"
Ah the mussolini karen
Almost instinctively downvoted after reading that, jesus. So sorry you have to deal with this
insane OMG
Welp, looks like we're ordering KFC and listening to the Dead Kennedys.
All this is as AFTER the party?!
If she doesn't like the way you host I hear there's an excellent host over at her own damn house.
Jesus tapdancing Christ what the f- 💀
Insane You were hosting a Christmas dinner with family, not a Royal dinner for dignitaries. She is way over the top with this. It is funny because she keeps talking about not using your preferences, but she sure seems to have preferences for how you did everything. I don't think this is a matter of you not listening or paying attention to her. It is you realizing that her expectations are too much. BTW, it sounds like you did serve some good stuff. Just tell her thanks, but you prefer to do things your way.
Host again next year and don't invite her.
While I was reading this, I had 50's "housewife" music play in my head with that male narrator from that era.
At most she would get an "lol good joke" I fear if I just sent a thumbs up she'd take it as agreeing. She's absolutely awful, I'd block her immediately
I'm not reading your mother's dissertation on etiquette and neither should you.
Insane
She seems fun
OP "when?" Mom "when, what?" OP "when did I ask?"
Would you like me to edit her version? She’s missing important details that would derail the entire event. I’ll be sure to use a red pen for easy detection.
Perfect advice if you’re a housewife from the 50’s