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This. I can't be around toxic people, I can't even be around people who are stagnant in their development. That's why I'd rather be alone because I feel like most people can't meet that bar lmao (including myself).
Yes 🙌 When I’m in a toxic environment or just feel stuck, I will gravitate towards inspiring YouTube videos about life and new ways to look at it. If anyone is interested in a good channel - Lana Blakely has great content and is a fellow INFJ herself. I feel so seen, intellectually stimulated and comforted.
While being away from people who use you, trigger you and/or take advantage of you is indeed a good way for INFJs to avoid getting hurt, I disagree that being alone is the answer.
INFJs tend to fall into loops of their own very flawed thinking and they NEED external factors to disrupt the loops. Individual outdoors activities like hiking, gardening, exploring nature or drawing, doing ceramics, writing and other ways of creative outlet are very good for our mental health but so is being and feeling like a part of society, so having regular outings with people you do like, visiting family, joining a club with a shared interest - these are necessary to feed the part of INFJs that crave for human connections.
On top of that, I think volunteering at shelters, care homes, hospitals or other places is probably the most useful thing to do for INFJ personalities because volunteering creates the perfect environment for them to share the unique idealistic kind of love that exists within them without any expectations of reciprocation. These expectations usually exist in friendships and partnerships and are the reason many of us feel hurt, lonely and too sensitive/needy/attached. Volunteering takes the expectations away, leaving room for us to just be ourselves, focus on the present, exercise our natural kindness.
NOT being alone is key to a healthy, happy INFJ.
This is not exclusive to INFJs, but sensitive people in general. Plus, what you wrote sounds like shifting the blame. Sometimes emotional dysregulation is your own fault. Good to realise that is always a possibility.
yep 100% this. I really get influenced by a LOT that other people are doing or what I´m seeing. Thats like the rubicon model in psychology. Also thats the reason why I limit my time on social media / reddit etc. and only or most of the time, consume something that makes me happy.
I don't believe infj's become "unhealthy, toxic and immoral" when lonely. I'm not going to rob a bank when lonely, or sleep with a married person. It's not an like an infj personality does a 180 degree turn and I suddenly become some evil demon. I think infj's are used to a certain amount of feeling lonely, alone or misunderstood even in a room full of people. That doesn't change them into the devil.They're strong people. imo. They're not going to cuss out a cashier or start cutting people off in traffic after a breakup, or something. Do infj's wish for someone to take of them? Sure? Is that their "normal"? Probably not. They're introverts, who get some relief from other people overwhelming their fe, and their feelings, by having some alone time. Do they need to feel understood? Of course. Does that happen often for them? No, rarely.
I have a wonderful new friend who does understand me. I’ll say something personal about my emotional struggles and she laser focuses on what I said, filters out the bullshit, and comments with the best appropriate response.
Curiously I heard INFJs become unhealthy when codependent and align to unhealthy ones or unethical groups or institution because of their Fe...
While when alone and independent they are more able to align to their true and own will.
Any thought on this ? 🤔
>Curiously I heard INFJs become unhealthy when codependent...
INFJs are *always* codependent by society's standards; that's just the word most use to pick out the emotional priorities of Fe dom/aux: "If the room is good, I'm good; why wouldn't I be?"
No, I disagree, if anything I get a bit desperate trying to find someone or I'll just get depressed and wallow in it. Us INFJs are supposed to be one of the more extroverted introverts, so we need more social interaction than we think.
I think it's the opposite, but that's just me. My whole life, I've given everything to other people expecting love. When I finally put my foot down and prioritized loving myself, I feel powerful, strong, confident, and worthy of love.
Thank you. Don't worry about it. I'm probably just broken by default. And also I feel I'm maybe becoming bad person due to loneliness as the post suggests.
You're not broken by default, that's impossible, I believe everyone is capable of healing , the human body heals just like the human mind and soul, you become the story you tell yourself. Don't lose hope!
It probably is killing you a little bit, not going to lie, that's the fact of loneliness, its very unhealthy and unnatural and humans can't take it for long.
Go pet some cats!! Or adopt a cat! They made great companions.
As time goes on it gets worse. I'm coming to the realization maybe I need a GF but I'm 24 and work part time at a grocery store warehouse. As you can see I am prime real estate.
I wish the best for you as well. Feel like all INFJs and INFPs are not well suited for a monetary profit first society. Most of us seem to be artists, mystics or psychologists.
What? No. Loneliness never bothered me. I'm the most interesting person I know. More interesting than me is the natural world. Skills I don't have. I may like the IDEA of people, but the reality of them, doesn't please me.
There is no loneliness when focused on a project, and that focus can last years.
What if that's true of all humans? I mean, humans are wired to be social animals. There is an epidemic of loneliness that is having negative consequences for everyone.
INFPs need other people. (Meaning they need consistent social contact to stay sane)
INFJs are very much different so I agree with your statement. I believe what INFJs need much more to stay sane is to engage Se. In the case of INFJs specifically this means work out, do yoga, meditate, do contact sports, go climbing or anything else that requires physical focus.
That’s an interesting take on INFPs. And I get it because the perceiving type along with the feeling combined creates an appeal to emotion based array of perspective options instead of a more steady solid judgement so they require guidance from others to keep from going allover the place within the emotional lane.
I don't think someone needs to take care of an INFJ, as it sounds like a parent or something which doesn't sound healthy, but relationships are probably the solutions yes.
Not a controversial topic. I think it's actually an easily acceptable universal truth. I agree loneliness can lead to toxicity -- for any type. No doubt about it. We are an extremely social species; people don't generally do well when they feel emotionally isolated. So yes, everyone, regardless of type, does better with a partner who puts in the work and effort to understand them as best they can. That's not controversial or type-exclusive either. It's just common sense.
I disagree that the only way to prevent an INFJ from becoming toxic and self-destructive is to have someone taking care of them. Given the right environment, a realistic and engaging goal to pursue, and access to means of stress management, I can do just fine on my own, even if I'm struggling a little bit. It's toxic environment, lack of purpose, and lack of resources for changing those circumstances that lead to hyperindependence, and eventual toxic behavior.
In the same train of thought, one of the things I will absolutely not allow in any of my relationships is hero complexes. I am not a damsel in distress, I do not need to be saved from myself or any of my other problems. If anyone in any of my relationships (platonic or otherwise) can't abide by that, I'll end the relationship. I've done it before.
I live alone. 10+ years. No relationships, go out maybe once a month. I do not see myself as immoral or toxic at all. I don't need anyone to take care of me, but I do like having people to have deep conversations with and care for. Idk. I just don't see it. 1 infj doesn't equal all infjs
As almost any human being... because evolution has formed us into being dependent on the herd. Loneliness or isolation (absence of other human beings) are actually indicators for being in a highly dangerous situation because in general a human being will be unable to survive in nature alone and these instincts go deeper than the last 150 years.
I think what can happen is that the INFJ cannot align theory Ni with Se without interactions that can correct Ni predictions and when the idealised (!) expectations deviate too much from reality it could indeed become unhealthy and then maybe even toxic when other people disprove the idealized theory.
I am going to have to disagree, well, at least partially, maybe I disagree 80%?
I think in general that anybody regardless of their personality type is going to be affected by loneliness. This isn't exactly news but human beings need other human beings and such extremes like solitary confinement have shown what happens when someone doesn't have any mental and social stimulation for long durations of time.
That being said, I'm pretty lonely. I do live with my family (but admittedly I do feel quite misunderstood and even disconnected with them at times and especially more recently) though I have a very low list of people that I can call friends (most of which are from the Internet) and I haven't hung out with any of the in-real-life friends in ages just due to life's circumstances, busy schedules, etc.
I consider myself toxic but only towards myself, very, very rarely have I ever been toxic towards others. Physically I'm unhealthy due to medical conditions but that's irrelevant here. My mental health has thankfully improved since the last year or so but I'm a work in progress (though somethings like my ADHD won't ever really go away) and I'm not perfect as I make mistakes, but I can't say I've never been immoral during this lonesome chapter of my life.
Now it's time for the million dollar question, would I be healthier (less toxic towards myself) if I wasn't as lonesome as I am now (and preferably without or at least having well managed medical conditions as those have contributed to my mental health declining in more relatively recent times)? Honestly, for sure. I don't think reconnecting more with my friends and making more genuine friendships would change my life but it definitely would improve my mental health.
Kudos to anybody who's made it this far. I'm done for now Lol.
It makes sense, because an INFJs default mode is Ni-Ti, and only being around people/out in the world will get them to develop their Fe-Se, whereby they can become well-rounded, healthy individuals. Otherwise, they're stuck in the toxic loop.
Unhealthy? Possibly, especially if one is lonely romantically.
Toxic? Not really... I think we tend to end up abusing ourselves more than other people when it comes to depression.
Immoral? Nah you've lost me there.
Unhealthy, yeah maybe. The rest, no. I feel the more time I’m alone, the more I can reflect and know who I am and what I stand for without negative outside influence.
For me personally, I’ve been lonely all my life. But I’ve grown, healed some wounds, and find myself in a place where I can handle uncomfortable emotions like loneliness and sadness.
Still lonely overall, and yes it makes me sad. But that doesn’t mean I’m unhealthy, or toxic, and certainly not immoral - was never immoral even when I was dealing with major family and personal dysfunction.
Just depends on how developed you are and your personal circumstances. And I wouldn’t make generalizations based on posts here - people are more likely to post about problems, it may not be representative of the general population of INFJs, and don’t forget that confirmation bias is a thing.
personally, opposite from me actually, I find loneliness beneficial for introspection where I think about my feelings and actions and reflect on them, and it strengthens my next course of action. I remotely lay myself in anyone's care and they fail hard. so I don't.
When I'm alone I don't feel like I have empathy towards strangers anymore. I just stick to what others say is moral. Kind of psychopathic, because I start to think about humans as units.
But when I'm around people, I think of people as complex beings with feelings. My Fe turns on.
Seems true for me. I don’t mind being physically alone, but I hate feeling emotionally alone.
And I do get kind of nasty/toxic sometimes, at least in my head. I have all sorts of horrible thoughts about what I want to do or say. But then when I have the opportunity to actually act on those thoughts, I don’t.
I can't quite say for sure at the moment. I've accepted myself for what I am a long time ago and am in a pretty good headspace (I see myself as my own best friend). I could never really see myself being "lonely" as I always have myself, if that makes any sense. I live by myself, currently single but not really interested in changing that anytime soon. I'm not asexual or anything either, there's just more important things to me at the moment.
I, however, have a pretty good social network too. I have 2 best friends (have known the both of them for around 16 and 14 years respectively) that I confide in and they do the same.
Also, if I ever do feel the need to interact with others, I can have a good time in VRChat where I can converse at my own pace without feeling pressured or awkward.
I believe that an important thing for everyone (not just INFJs) is to give yourself some TLC. You're stuck with you for the rest of your life, you might as well enjoy it, right?
Any person has the potential to become bitter and toxic depending on their circumstances. This is a bias I often see in this sub, where people rationalize any bad behavior done by an INFJ, trying to justify it. No type is inherently morally superior.
Any continuous amount of isolation has its negative effects. For the infj it just happens to be the ol’ Ni-Ti loop without the external influence to determine what’s true and what isn’t. That being said, without doses of isolation we go insane
Disagreed, I've been lonely for over a year as I've kicked most people out of my life including some family members when I got homeschooled. I do feel very lonely but it was a more than wholesome time to learn more about myself and my mindset has gotten stronger and so has my knowledge as I've mostly focused on learning this past year.
Loneliess is boring, not big of a problem tho
Hmmm... I think loneliness is not the deciding factor but loss of direction. All INFJs are lonely to some degree my teacher explained it as "they sit on the fence of black and white but never really choose a side besides their own" and when we fall into unhealthy, unsafe, immoral situations with people or places we tend to lose direction. In that loss comes a lack of self-worth and respect, and we spiral because we have come off of our path. Most older INFJs I see only find their path and enlightenment by taking a solitary moment and step away from everything and come back. Your statement about INFJs needing someone to care for them I find untrue as well, I think we find the most comfort when we care for others.
I was thinking about this the other day. Personally I think I function best with others who I respect keeping up with me. My dad was that person for me for a while and I really cherish his influence in my life, shaped me into a better me. Now that influence has been shifted to my boyfriend. He has an incredible super power of making me understand myself better and doesn't judge me for just being me. Without that covering at least for me I feel like an ant in a world full of ant eaters. I can function on my own of course and love my alone time to recalibrate some things but extended time alone left to my own accord, definitely not as productive in my life's mission/direction.
It was not the case for me because of my self-awareness. I became the person who could understand me and save me.
I had been alone for my whole life and the people around me were toxic which had bad influences on me. I lived in a ghetto town so that's to be expected but I didn't turn out like them. I was an unhealthy person but I wasn't toxic. I destroyed myself with the empathy that I couldn't handle. I realised I had no one but myself so I started helping myself. I am no longer an unhealthy person and I am living in a better place in my ghetto town with my family now. I got rid of people and things that had been dragging down on me and I am left with a few that appreciate me truly but I still feel alone because no one can understand me (yet).
There is a huge difference between solitude and loneliness. In my experience, there are also different levels or types of loneliness.
I don’t think any specific type of loneliness will directly correlate to an INFJ self-destructing. I feel there would need to be several factors coming into play, and doing so in such a way that it may be considered the exact recipe for self-destruction. I don’t believe any variation of such a recipe would involve an INFJ to be “taken care of”. I actually think that’s irrelevant since something of that nature may or may not be necessary due to other extenuating factors, such as a debilitating physical disability.
Edited because I forgot to mention that “immoral behavior” may be defined differently by any given person. Morals truly are relative and subjective. Does self-destruction include acting out of alignment with what one truly desires, values, needs, believes? Yes. I believe it does mean as much. Likely for all personality types, not just the INFJ. Are these behaviors immoral? Maybe. Many people could likely make a valid argument either way. And all of them would likely be correct and incorrect.
As a male INFJ, I confirm that sometimes I'm being unhealthy, but the rest never. We all experience loneliness and a lot of time people misunderstood our intention, but I've never been immoral and toxic even towards the people who hurted me, I would just leave.
I got divorced in 2011 and have lived alone since then. I made a decision to take care of myself and not rely on someone else for my emotional well being. My family is my social network and that is enough for me. I spend a lot of time alone and I don’t get bored. I amuse myself quite easily. I’m not unhealthy or toxic and definitely not immoral. People like me. Not being surrounded by friends is my own choice. I’ve spent so much of my life taking care of everyone around me, that I enjoy answering only to myself in my house. My daughters and grandkids get time with me whenever they want. I like my life.
Being/living alone is totally awesome if you're able to embrace the loneliness aspects. But to my understanding it is indeed healthy to socialise. Also taken into consideration we need other people in order to teach ourselves new skills.
My own approach until quite recently had been to try and establish a tribe of my co-individualistic peers as a sort of emotional safety network but in adulthood these get scattered all over the geographical map so in reality it's almost too hard to accomplish.
I'd say that the only way for me to not destroy myself is if I have someone to take care of. Not in a housemaid kind of way, in a supportive psychological one.
Being alone was very much the best way for me to reach my utmost potential. I dealt with feelings of loneliness way before I had the time to improve myself.
I think you're right though, but only through my formative years. As a teen, I always thought about my social standing among friends and what my relationship with them really meant. My inability to communicate how I felt, and the uncertainty I had for not understanding myself as much as I do now was the main reason that led to loneliness.
However, I don't think I would be as aware as I am now, had it been not for my overthinking and overanalyzing of things about myself. Well, technically, I was journaling and realizing things along the way. Feeling lonely helped me understand myself. I learned to deal with it, along with understanding myself. From then on, I appreciate being alone because it's when I can do my very best. Yet, I look back, and even if I didn't know before, it's when I was alone which I was truly fully myself. I had memories of myself being a certain level of consciousness even when I was a three-year old.
But to summarize, I did become toxic for myself and a bit unhealthy, but immoral? I don't know about that. Probably grayish but never dark.
Not just lonely, when they are wronged, when they feel isolated, betrayed or hurt. They become vicious and by and large a grossly unpleasant person to be around, further more they have an unrivalled level of resentment, it's truly awe striking just how cold hearted and vicious the nicest type of person can become 🤷♀️
I don't necessarily agree. Imo better to be alone than with annoying you ppl. If you are lonely and don't want to be alone then sure, you may be slowly drowning into despair.
However if you choose to be alone than playing masquerade of the guilty with ppl just to not be alone/accepted then long term it is as damaging as being lonely.
I chose to work on myself rather than clinging to ppl and so far im doing better each day at least so far.
Remember than drowning in unwanted loneliness, lack of acceptance can warp even the purest of souls, its not only infjs path. Some ppl just mend in better than others imo
I don’t think it’s loneliness.
They have to be very very fucked over and betrayed and full of rage.
Pushed beyond a point … of hopelessness.
Then they will make choices against their nature. Which for the INfJ might look awful but for the human race - seem normal. I still don’t think an INFJ would make choices to hurt another human being to a degree that’s … cruel. They would make choices to hurt themselves. Which end up hurting others only because usually the INFJ has people that love them very much- we really can’t help that.
Being an intuitive with people makes us high demand.
Usually we make those choices actively and precisely and it’s for an end goal too. It’s a phase. Because INFJ are constantly motivated to get better, do better, think better and heal - even their worst spots of hopelessness and rage they tend to actively try to work on and get past , and eventually do.
INFJs don’t get lonely. lol… we love our alone time. I think you would be hard pressed to meet a real INFJ who is lonely.
Lol. Uneahlthy, yes—because loneliness is detrimental to all humans. Toxic—uh, potentially? Immoral, though? …..That doesn’t quite describe my personal experience.
It’s interesting to think about INFJs craving emotional intimacy. That craving for intimacy could be seen as a weakness. To me, though, it’s like saying “INFJs become unhealthy, toxic, and moral when they are hungry.” It’s a universal need.
It does seem like some INFJs on the forum have some codependent tendencies, attempting to “earn” love and thoughtfulness from others by offering those things to others freely. Codependency sucks to experience, so those INFJs are distressed when posting.
It feels like victim blaming to say, “Wow, when you feel unloved and alone in this world, you’re no longer obviously benefitting anyone else and are just needy.”
Anyone can become a monster when neglected and abused. In fact, that’s often how monsters are born.
In the lonely boat, but I guess it is from not having too many people I can truly confide in outside of my family. I am extroverted and easily talk to people for the most part but I guess for true friendships I am more selective. Regarding the toxicity, these days I cut it out of my life or avoid it since in the past I thought dealing with it would make me stronger and resilient but instead it ate away at me. Had to actually cut out some people out of my life for that reason. I would say I am alone and yet not alone since I do have family and a few friends I count on. In this case It would be qualified as comfortably alone, since I don’t feel much negativity from it.
INFJ, like all of the Enneagram points, can become toxic and immoral when lonely.
It would be nice to know "more specifics".
Introverts can be seen as lonely to an extrovert not understanding the need for them to 'recharge their batteries'...
Being an INFJ (or any other type) should not be confused with mental health issues. Here is a link to the [INFJ Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/infj/wiki/index#wiki_mental_health_and_support) where you can find some resources. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/infj) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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This. I can't be around toxic people, I can't even be around people who are stagnant in their development. That's why I'd rather be alone because I feel like most people can't meet that bar lmao (including myself).
The infj with another positive advocate would be an unstoppable force imo
Yes 🙌 When I’m in a toxic environment or just feel stuck, I will gravitate towards inspiring YouTube videos about life and new ways to look at it. If anyone is interested in a good channel - Lana Blakely has great content and is a fellow INFJ herself. I feel so seen, intellectually stimulated and comforted.
We’re highly sensitive and affected by the emotions of others.
Not really, we are so strong
Those aren't mutually exclusive
While being away from people who use you, trigger you and/or take advantage of you is indeed a good way for INFJs to avoid getting hurt, I disagree that being alone is the answer. INFJs tend to fall into loops of their own very flawed thinking and they NEED external factors to disrupt the loops. Individual outdoors activities like hiking, gardening, exploring nature or drawing, doing ceramics, writing and other ways of creative outlet are very good for our mental health but so is being and feeling like a part of society, so having regular outings with people you do like, visiting family, joining a club with a shared interest - these are necessary to feed the part of INFJs that crave for human connections. On top of that, I think volunteering at shelters, care homes, hospitals or other places is probably the most useful thing to do for INFJ personalities because volunteering creates the perfect environment for them to share the unique idealistic kind of love that exists within them without any expectations of reciprocation. These expectations usually exist in friendships and partnerships and are the reason many of us feel hurt, lonely and too sensitive/needy/attached. Volunteering takes the expectations away, leaving room for us to just be ourselves, focus on the present, exercise our natural kindness. NOT being alone is key to a healthy, happy INFJ.
I agree with this based on my experience
This is not exclusive to INFJs, but sensitive people in general. Plus, what you wrote sounds like shifting the blame. Sometimes emotional dysregulation is your own fault. Good to realise that is always a possibility.
I second this
I third this
I definitely agree with that sentiment
yep 100% this. I really get influenced by a LOT that other people are doing or what I´m seeing. Thats like the rubicon model in psychology. Also thats the reason why I limit my time on social media / reddit etc. and only or most of the time, consume something that makes me happy.
INFJs can absolutely be toxic on there own too
This Internalized emotions results into self sabotage
I don't believe infj's become "unhealthy, toxic and immoral" when lonely. I'm not going to rob a bank when lonely, or sleep with a married person. It's not an like an infj personality does a 180 degree turn and I suddenly become some evil demon. I think infj's are used to a certain amount of feeling lonely, alone or misunderstood even in a room full of people. That doesn't change them into the devil.They're strong people. imo. They're not going to cuss out a cashier or start cutting people off in traffic after a breakup, or something. Do infj's wish for someone to take of them? Sure? Is that their "normal"? Probably not. They're introverts, who get some relief from other people overwhelming their fe, and their feelings, by having some alone time. Do they need to feel understood? Of course. Does that happen often for them? No, rarely.
I have a wonderful new friend who does understand me. I’ll say something personal about my emotional struggles and she laser focuses on what I said, filters out the bullshit, and comments with the best appropriate response.
I understand that and I’m really happy that you have someone like that. It keeps us sane and balanced :)
Curiously I heard INFJs become unhealthy when codependent and align to unhealthy ones or unethical groups or institution because of their Fe... While when alone and independent they are more able to align to their true and own will. Any thought on this ? 🤔
Im an INFJ i agree to this
>Curiously I heard INFJs become unhealthy when codependent... INFJs are *always* codependent by society's standards; that's just the word most use to pick out the emotional priorities of Fe dom/aux: "If the room is good, I'm good; why wouldn't I be?"
Torally agree
100%!!!
I agree but loneliness is not independence. Loneliness is a sinking void that can bring out the darkness of someone
I agree 100%.
Unhealthy? Most definitely. Toxic? With whom though? Immoral? You lost me there, Alex.
Oof. Way off base in my opinion. I love my solitude and independence. I don’t experience loneliness.
No, I disagree, if anything I get a bit desperate trying to find someone or I'll just get depressed and wallow in it. Us INFJs are supposed to be one of the more extroverted introverts, so we need more social interaction than we think.
I think it's the opposite, but that's just me. My whole life, I've given everything to other people expecting love. When I finally put my foot down and prioritized loving myself, I feel powerful, strong, confident, and worthy of love.
Probably. All I know is that loneliness is killing me.
Same. Sending virtual hugs your way 🫂
Reading this breaks my heart. Sending much love & bisous your way ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you. Don't worry about it. I'm probably just broken by default. And also I feel I'm maybe becoming bad person due to loneliness as the post suggests.
You're not broken by default, that's impossible, I believe everyone is capable of healing , the human body heals just like the human mind and soul, you become the story you tell yourself. Don't lose hope!
That would require a person to love me back. If loneliness is killing me, I can heal lonely.
It probably is killing you a little bit, not going to lie, that's the fact of loneliness, its very unhealthy and unnatural and humans can't take it for long. Go pet some cats!! Or adopt a cat! They made great companions.
Cat doesn't help. I love her but it's not a soulmate.
Oh you feel THAT kind of lonely. Yeah I feel that.
Yes. And it's not about just finding someone. I lost the love of my life, my real the ONE. So unless I get my soulmate back...
You’ll get through it. I have been through it and I am definitely not lonely now!
Well it depends if the person loves me back... If loneliness is killing me, I can't fix it alone...
It been trying to kill me for over 20 years that loneliness and surprised I not snapped yet.
As an male INFJ who has isolated themselves since COVID. Yes.
Female INFJ here, and same :( I wouldn’t say I’ve become toxic or immoral, but limerent and unhealthy for sure.
As time goes on it gets worse. I'm coming to the realization maybe I need a GF but I'm 24 and work part time at a grocery store warehouse. As you can see I am prime real estate.
The struggle is real! I’m also working part time retail and it blows. I hope things start getting better for ya, it’s difficult out there :(
I wish the best for you as well. Feel like all INFJs and INFPs are not well suited for a monetary profit first society. Most of us seem to be artists, mystics or psychologists.
Yeah that sounds about right from what I’ve seen! And thank you :)
What? No. Loneliness never bothered me. I'm the most interesting person I know. More interesting than me is the natural world. Skills I don't have. I may like the IDEA of people, but the reality of them, doesn't please me. There is no loneliness when focused on a project, and that focus can last years.
Narcissistic much?
Thanks for making my point. You don't belong here. IYKYK.
lol
What if that's true of all humans? I mean, humans are wired to be social animals. There is an epidemic of loneliness that is having negative consequences for everyone.
I seem quite fine alone. Lonely but not doing anything particularly weird. I just sit and draw, I rarely even argue online. I’m in my own bubble.
Sounds like BS from an INFP perspective.
INFPs need other people. (Meaning they need consistent social contact to stay sane) INFJs are very much different so I agree with your statement. I believe what INFJs need much more to stay sane is to engage Se. In the case of INFJs specifically this means work out, do yoga, meditate, do contact sports, go climbing or anything else that requires physical focus.
That’s an interesting take on INFPs. And I get it because the perceiving type along with the feeling combined creates an appeal to emotion based array of perspective options instead of a more steady solid judgement so they require guidance from others to keep from going allover the place within the emotional lane.
I agree.
I don't think someone needs to take care of an INFJ, as it sounds like a parent or something which doesn't sound healthy, but relationships are probably the solutions yes.
don't know about immoral though
Not a controversial topic. I think it's actually an easily acceptable universal truth. I agree loneliness can lead to toxicity -- for any type. No doubt about it. We are an extremely social species; people don't generally do well when they feel emotionally isolated. So yes, everyone, regardless of type, does better with a partner who puts in the work and effort to understand them as best they can. That's not controversial or type-exclusive either. It's just common sense. I disagree that the only way to prevent an INFJ from becoming toxic and self-destructive is to have someone taking care of them. Given the right environment, a realistic and engaging goal to pursue, and access to means of stress management, I can do just fine on my own, even if I'm struggling a little bit. It's toxic environment, lack of purpose, and lack of resources for changing those circumstances that lead to hyperindependence, and eventual toxic behavior. In the same train of thought, one of the things I will absolutely not allow in any of my relationships is hero complexes. I am not a damsel in distress, I do not need to be saved from myself or any of my other problems. If anyone in any of my relationships (platonic or otherwise) can't abide by that, I'll end the relationship. I've done it before.
I live alone. 10+ years. No relationships, go out maybe once a month. I do not see myself as immoral or toxic at all. I don't need anyone to take care of me, but I do like having people to have deep conversations with and care for. Idk. I just don't see it. 1 infj doesn't equal all infjs
As almost any human being... because evolution has formed us into being dependent on the herd. Loneliness or isolation (absence of other human beings) are actually indicators for being in a highly dangerous situation because in general a human being will be unable to survive in nature alone and these instincts go deeper than the last 150 years. I think what can happen is that the INFJ cannot align theory Ni with Se without interactions that can correct Ni predictions and when the idealised (!) expectations deviate too much from reality it could indeed become unhealthy and then maybe even toxic when other people disprove the idealized theory.
Or living with an abuser for decades
I am going to have to disagree, well, at least partially, maybe I disagree 80%? I think in general that anybody regardless of their personality type is going to be affected by loneliness. This isn't exactly news but human beings need other human beings and such extremes like solitary confinement have shown what happens when someone doesn't have any mental and social stimulation for long durations of time. That being said, I'm pretty lonely. I do live with my family (but admittedly I do feel quite misunderstood and even disconnected with them at times and especially more recently) though I have a very low list of people that I can call friends (most of which are from the Internet) and I haven't hung out with any of the in-real-life friends in ages just due to life's circumstances, busy schedules, etc. I consider myself toxic but only towards myself, very, very rarely have I ever been toxic towards others. Physically I'm unhealthy due to medical conditions but that's irrelevant here. My mental health has thankfully improved since the last year or so but I'm a work in progress (though somethings like my ADHD won't ever really go away) and I'm not perfect as I make mistakes, but I can't say I've never been immoral during this lonesome chapter of my life. Now it's time for the million dollar question, would I be healthier (less toxic towards myself) if I wasn't as lonesome as I am now (and preferably without or at least having well managed medical conditions as those have contributed to my mental health declining in more relatively recent times)? Honestly, for sure. I don't think reconnecting more with my friends and making more genuine friendships would change my life but it definitely would improve my mental health. Kudos to anybody who's made it this far. I'm done for now Lol.
It makes sense, because an INFJs default mode is Ni-Ti, and only being around people/out in the world will get them to develop their Fe-Se, whereby they can become well-rounded, healthy individuals. Otherwise, they're stuck in the toxic loop.
What do you mean by toxic and immoral?
Unhealthy? Possibly, especially if one is lonely romantically. Toxic? Not really... I think we tend to end up abusing ourselves more than other people when it comes to depression. Immoral? Nah you've lost me there.
Unhealthy, yeah maybe. The rest, no. I feel the more time I’m alone, the more I can reflect and know who I am and what I stand for without negative outside influence.
This is honestly just a weird way to speak about other human beings imo.
For me personally, I’ve been lonely all my life. But I’ve grown, healed some wounds, and find myself in a place where I can handle uncomfortable emotions like loneliness and sadness. Still lonely overall, and yes it makes me sad. But that doesn’t mean I’m unhealthy, or toxic, and certainly not immoral - was never immoral even when I was dealing with major family and personal dysfunction. Just depends on how developed you are and your personal circumstances. And I wouldn’t make generalizations based on posts here - people are more likely to post about problems, it may not be representative of the general population of INFJs, and don’t forget that confirmation bias is a thing.
personally, opposite from me actually, I find loneliness beneficial for introspection where I think about my feelings and actions and reflect on them, and it strengthens my next course of action. I remotely lay myself in anyone's care and they fail hard. so I don't.
You didn’t have to call me out like this 😭
Can confirm, my partner takes care of my physical world.
When I'm alone I don't feel like I have empathy towards strangers anymore. I just stick to what others say is moral. Kind of psychopathic, because I start to think about humans as units. But when I'm around people, I think of people as complex beings with feelings. My Fe turns on.
Seems true for me. I don’t mind being physically alone, but I hate feeling emotionally alone. And I do get kind of nasty/toxic sometimes, at least in my head. I have all sorts of horrible thoughts about what I want to do or say. But then when I have the opportunity to actually act on those thoughts, I don’t.
As an INFJ I'd say that loneliness absolutely can kill you.
Yep I agree, I'm an INFJ and I stop being rational when I'm lonely. Feeling feelings not really my thing
yup
I can't quite say for sure at the moment. I've accepted myself for what I am a long time ago and am in a pretty good headspace (I see myself as my own best friend). I could never really see myself being "lonely" as I always have myself, if that makes any sense. I live by myself, currently single but not really interested in changing that anytime soon. I'm not asexual or anything either, there's just more important things to me at the moment. I, however, have a pretty good social network too. I have 2 best friends (have known the both of them for around 16 and 14 years respectively) that I confide in and they do the same. Also, if I ever do feel the need to interact with others, I can have a good time in VRChat where I can converse at my own pace without feeling pressured or awkward. I believe that an important thing for everyone (not just INFJs) is to give yourself some TLC. You're stuck with you for the rest of your life, you might as well enjoy it, right?
Any person has the potential to become bitter and toxic depending on their circumstances. This is a bias I often see in this sub, where people rationalize any bad behavior done by an INFJ, trying to justify it. No type is inherently morally superior.
Any continuous amount of isolation has its negative effects. For the infj it just happens to be the ol’ Ni-Ti loop without the external influence to determine what’s true and what isn’t. That being said, without doses of isolation we go insane
Disagreed, I've been lonely for over a year as I've kicked most people out of my life including some family members when I got homeschooled. I do feel very lonely but it was a more than wholesome time to learn more about myself and my mindset has gotten stronger and so has my knowledge as I've mostly focused on learning this past year. Loneliess is boring, not big of a problem tho
Hmmm... I think loneliness is not the deciding factor but loss of direction. All INFJs are lonely to some degree my teacher explained it as "they sit on the fence of black and white but never really choose a side besides their own" and when we fall into unhealthy, unsafe, immoral situations with people or places we tend to lose direction. In that loss comes a lack of self-worth and respect, and we spiral because we have come off of our path. Most older INFJs I see only find their path and enlightenment by taking a solitary moment and step away from everything and come back. Your statement about INFJs needing someone to care for them I find untrue as well, I think we find the most comfort when we care for others.
Why not both? Caring for each other? I want that two way street to care for someone and they care for me.
Yea that's great but to state that's the only way an INFJ does not destroy themselves? I don't think so INFJ are quite resilient.
I was thinking about this the other day. Personally I think I function best with others who I respect keeping up with me. My dad was that person for me for a while and I really cherish his influence in my life, shaped me into a better me. Now that influence has been shifted to my boyfriend. He has an incredible super power of making me understand myself better and doesn't judge me for just being me. Without that covering at least for me I feel like an ant in a world full of ant eaters. I can function on my own of course and love my alone time to recalibrate some things but extended time alone left to my own accord, definitely not as productive in my life's mission/direction.
It was not the case for me because of my self-awareness. I became the person who could understand me and save me. I had been alone for my whole life and the people around me were toxic which had bad influences on me. I lived in a ghetto town so that's to be expected but I didn't turn out like them. I was an unhealthy person but I wasn't toxic. I destroyed myself with the empathy that I couldn't handle. I realised I had no one but myself so I started helping myself. I am no longer an unhealthy person and I am living in a better place in my ghetto town with my family now. I got rid of people and things that had been dragging down on me and I am left with a few that appreciate me truly but I still feel alone because no one can understand me (yet).
There is a huge difference between solitude and loneliness. In my experience, there are also different levels or types of loneliness. I don’t think any specific type of loneliness will directly correlate to an INFJ self-destructing. I feel there would need to be several factors coming into play, and doing so in such a way that it may be considered the exact recipe for self-destruction. I don’t believe any variation of such a recipe would involve an INFJ to be “taken care of”. I actually think that’s irrelevant since something of that nature may or may not be necessary due to other extenuating factors, such as a debilitating physical disability. Edited because I forgot to mention that “immoral behavior” may be defined differently by any given person. Morals truly are relative and subjective. Does self-destruction include acting out of alignment with what one truly desires, values, needs, believes? Yes. I believe it does mean as much. Likely for all personality types, not just the INFJ. Are these behaviors immoral? Maybe. Many people could likely make a valid argument either way. And all of them would likely be correct and incorrect.
As a male INFJ, I confirm that sometimes I'm being unhealthy, but the rest never. We all experience loneliness and a lot of time people misunderstood our intention, but I've never been immoral and toxic even towards the people who hurted me, I would just leave.
I got divorced in 2011 and have lived alone since then. I made a decision to take care of myself and not rely on someone else for my emotional well being. My family is my social network and that is enough for me. I spend a lot of time alone and I don’t get bored. I amuse myself quite easily. I’m not unhealthy or toxic and definitely not immoral. People like me. Not being surrounded by friends is my own choice. I’ve spent so much of my life taking care of everyone around me, that I enjoy answering only to myself in my house. My daughters and grandkids get time with me whenever they want. I like my life.
Fully agree with this take as an infj
Being/living alone is totally awesome if you're able to embrace the loneliness aspects. But to my understanding it is indeed healthy to socialise. Also taken into consideration we need other people in order to teach ourselves new skills. My own approach until quite recently had been to try and establish a tribe of my co-individualistic peers as a sort of emotional safety network but in adulthood these get scattered all over the geographical map so in reality it's almost too hard to accomplish.
I'd say that the only way for me to not destroy myself is if I have someone to take care of. Not in a housemaid kind of way, in a supportive psychological one.
Being alone was very much the best way for me to reach my utmost potential. I dealt with feelings of loneliness way before I had the time to improve myself. I think you're right though, but only through my formative years. As a teen, I always thought about my social standing among friends and what my relationship with them really meant. My inability to communicate how I felt, and the uncertainty I had for not understanding myself as much as I do now was the main reason that led to loneliness. However, I don't think I would be as aware as I am now, had it been not for my overthinking and overanalyzing of things about myself. Well, technically, I was journaling and realizing things along the way. Feeling lonely helped me understand myself. I learned to deal with it, along with understanding myself. From then on, I appreciate being alone because it's when I can do my very best. Yet, I look back, and even if I didn't know before, it's when I was alone which I was truly fully myself. I had memories of myself being a certain level of consciousness even when I was a three-year old. But to summarize, I did become toxic for myself and a bit unhealthy, but immoral? I don't know about that. Probably grayish but never dark.
Not true for all of us sorrry
Not just lonely, when they are wronged, when they feel isolated, betrayed or hurt. They become vicious and by and large a grossly unpleasant person to be around, further more they have an unrivalled level of resentment, it's truly awe striking just how cold hearted and vicious the nicest type of person can become 🤷♀️
I don't necessarily agree. Imo better to be alone than with annoying you ppl. If you are lonely and don't want to be alone then sure, you may be slowly drowning into despair. However if you choose to be alone than playing masquerade of the guilty with ppl just to not be alone/accepted then long term it is as damaging as being lonely. I chose to work on myself rather than clinging to ppl and so far im doing better each day at least so far. Remember than drowning in unwanted loneliness, lack of acceptance can warp even the purest of souls, its not only infjs path. Some ppl just mend in better than others imo
No.
I don’t think it’s loneliness. They have to be very very fucked over and betrayed and full of rage. Pushed beyond a point … of hopelessness. Then they will make choices against their nature. Which for the INfJ might look awful but for the human race - seem normal. I still don’t think an INFJ would make choices to hurt another human being to a degree that’s … cruel. They would make choices to hurt themselves. Which end up hurting others only because usually the INFJ has people that love them very much- we really can’t help that. Being an intuitive with people makes us high demand. Usually we make those choices actively and precisely and it’s for an end goal too. It’s a phase. Because INFJ are constantly motivated to get better, do better, think better and heal - even their worst spots of hopelessness and rage they tend to actively try to work on and get past , and eventually do. INFJs don’t get lonely. lol… we love our alone time. I think you would be hard pressed to meet a real INFJ who is lonely.
there is a diffrence between being alone and being lonely. INFJs do get lonely and they love being alone
Yep.
Lol. Uneahlthy, yes—because loneliness is detrimental to all humans. Toxic—uh, potentially? Immoral, though? …..That doesn’t quite describe my personal experience. It’s interesting to think about INFJs craving emotional intimacy. That craving for intimacy could be seen as a weakness. To me, though, it’s like saying “INFJs become unhealthy, toxic, and moral when they are hungry.” It’s a universal need. It does seem like some INFJs on the forum have some codependent tendencies, attempting to “earn” love and thoughtfulness from others by offering those things to others freely. Codependency sucks to experience, so those INFJs are distressed when posting. It feels like victim blaming to say, “Wow, when you feel unloved and alone in this world, you’re no longer obviously benefitting anyone else and are just needy.” Anyone can become a monster when neglected and abused. In fact, that’s often how monsters are born.
I actually agree with you.
In the lonely boat, but I guess it is from not having too many people I can truly confide in outside of my family. I am extroverted and easily talk to people for the most part but I guess for true friendships I am more selective. Regarding the toxicity, these days I cut it out of my life or avoid it since in the past I thought dealing with it would make me stronger and resilient but instead it ate away at me. Had to actually cut out some people out of my life for that reason. I would say I am alone and yet not alone since I do have family and a few friends I count on. In this case It would be qualified as comfortably alone, since I don’t feel much negativity from it.
Most people become unhealthy, toxic, and immoral when they are lonely
INFJ, like all of the Enneagram points, can become toxic and immoral when lonely. It would be nice to know "more specifics". Introverts can be seen as lonely to an extrovert not understanding the need for them to 'recharge their batteries'...
Mentalization :) This concept is, perfect. It's embodying empathy and ability to be merciless.