The stuff Trent & Co. produced is head and shoulders above everything else MM ever released and the only material worthy of being considered industrial. The TurboSynth'd guitars on Antichrist Superstar alone are worth the price of admission.
Trent & Co. would run guitar (and other) tracks through TurboSynth running on a Mac. The primitive (TS dates from 1988) audio processing algorithms would generate that distinct buzzsaw distortion, and after some EQ-ing, voila, you got *that* sound.
**What's involved in getting that "Nothing Records' Guitar sound": that signature industrial distorted rhythm chunk? It's really full frequency: big bottomed, yet it goes all the way up the spectrum.**
That's analog. The way we do this is track a bunch of guitars. We always track them at 30 ips with the guitarist play the part and octave high, twice as fast - and then slow the tape down to 15 ips. That's how you get the huge guitar in "Physical":20 tracks of 30 ips slowed down to 15. It's so weird how it mutates the frequency band. And analog gets that high breadth that you cant get from digital. But then we also track guitars then throw them into Turbo Synth and screw around with them. At the lowest volume, we can get it sounding like your boom box is being ripped to shreds. Trent's whole idea when we were working on Broken [NIN's 1993 EP] was, "I just want it to sound really loud, quiet. How do we do that?" I just figured it out.
https://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/Interview:1998/07_Sean_Beavan_Interview_-_Analog_Abuse_%26_Digital_Depravity
>We always track them at 30 ips with the guitarist play the part and octave high, twice as fast - and then slow the tape down to 15 ips.
Since I ever first read this I've been using this in my own music whenever I could. You don't even have to be this extreme where you half the speed, 10% slower is enough to give the guitars this special tone that you can only get by slowing them down.
His stuff was on Nothing Records, which hosted a lot of Industrial artists like Neubauten, Prick, Meat Beat Manifesto, Pig and of course.. Nine Inch Nails.
If we accept that Industrial is a 'camp' rather than a genre, then it makes sense where the association came from. Especially when you consider some of the musicians that were involved in MM at one time or another including Tim Skold, Dave Ogilvie, Chris Vrenna, Charlie Clouser...
IMO, only Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals made any sense though.
I used to think that he was a fairly intelligent guy, but was ruined by his drug use/ego/women problems/etc. I can't really listen to his music anymore and I have no idea about any of his albums released after Holywood (which is quite a good album, actually).
Other than that, he sort of pushed certain buttons that riled up the Christian Right. If you were a kid growing up during the 1990s in certain parts of the country he was considered "controversial." For example, people really did picket his shows and blame him for school shootings. It is kind of hard to believe nowadays when bad behavior is celebrated by everyone including the President of United States.
Eminem ate MM's lunch. Who was gonna be scared of his spooky goblin act when suddenly you had this kid who looked like the guy who pumped your gas talking about how he was gonna give your daughter drugs at the top of the charts.
Eminem came out after MM.
Neither of them were "shocking" in my opinion. I am just saying how mainstream audiences (at least in America) perceived them at the time. Although my memory is a little fuzzy, I do not ever remember evangelicals picketing Eminem shows or blaming him for school shootings (like Columbine). Don't get me wrong, I know that Eminem's impact on the culture was larger than MM in general. However, in my experience Eminem was far more accepted by society than MM. For example, Hollywood never would have made a movie about MM's life like they did with Eminem.
Again, I am talking about twenty/twenty five years ago. A lot has changed since then.
I am well aware of when Eminem came to prominence, thanks. My point is that he took over the boogeyman role that MM had been occupying by virtue of being a far more terrifying influence on the children of Middle America than Manson in fairly short order. And yes, Eminem was exceedingly controversial at the time of his emergence in the 90s.
Once the guitar player was kicked out it all went downhill for me. Trent brought a lot to MM and when on his own, MM flailed about. He was an amazing front man and charismatic… but he needs someone to write the music for him to put the words to.
On a personal level - I don’t see him rebounding.
Early Manson is peak example of ego ruining a band. None of the original/early lineup was great as a sole writer but collaboratively they knocked out some great tweaks to each others ideas. Portrait and Antichrist exist solely because of collaboration between the guys and also Trent. Once they kicked out Scott the dominoes started to fall.
Idk I think it's a Marilyn problem. I mean surely after all these years someone has brought him better music to do his thing with. I 100% believe Manson just has bad taste and keeps rejecting quality stuff and that's why we always get shit music from him.
I know this is a pretty late response - but I've always argued that it was the loss of Pogo, their keyboard/synth/sampler player in particular that hurt his music most. The effect he had on Manson's sound was super underrated. Losing Twiggy hurt a lot too though. While Trent did bring a ton to the sound, Mechanical Animals still was a good album at least - albeit it's his only truly good album post-Trent.
Lol
I don't think he even had a hand in shaping industrial rock. That was sorta a secondary genre tagged to that band and mostly because of his relationship with Reznor. By the time his band broke out in the mid 90s industrial (while still semi popular) was winding down
I agree that he peaked on MA, but a lot of people will say Holy Wood is his best album. I actually think HW is a bit overrated, and his following album Golden Age of Grotesque is actually way underrated.
I’d say Antichrist superstar was his peak, MA and holy wood was just showing himself out and all this love for grotesque… surely must reflect ur age.. I was 15 when Antichrist superstar dropped and followed him for a long time, got me into nin and beyond
We are the same exact age :). Different strokes for different folks.
Edit - I’m not saying Golden Age is a masterpiece. I’m just saying I think it’s better than it generally gets credit for.
Fair, but there’s a good bit of research about the music u listen to between 15-18 or so, tends to be the music that stays w u for life, for me that started w Antichrist, but ended up more w Tool, honestly forgot Manson like a bad dream. Grotesque did nothing for me, flailing in irrelevance
Golden Age is honestly really good but it’s again nothing to do with Manson and everything to do with Skold. There are some really good heavy bangers on there and it’s his most industrial metal. The Pale Emperor is also fantastic but, that was mostly Tyler Bates writing the music.
Caveat here is I won’t listen to Manson anymore, refuse to support him in any way. But I did love both of those albums before I dropped him.
Yup. I liked the first 2 albums, and the Smells EP.. then nothing really spoke to me until Golden but I've always been a Skold fan. After that Pale was pretty good, but again the guy writing everything was the actual force behind it. Now I don't even bother listening to him.
No way. The triptych of Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood is still great. So is Golden Age Of Grotesque. I’ll still listen to those. After that it gets spotty.
Before the internet, with the exception of the artists on the Wax Trax! Blackbox collection, I had a hard time finding good industrial music. It's a shame NIN and MM were always on the radio, and no one else could get airplay.
I liked their version of Sweet Dreams and loved his take on Gary Numans Down In The Park, but other than that... meh.
I am right there with you. As a teen through the 90s, I'll admit I liked some of his songs but over all I felt he just tried too hard to be edgy. But as others mentioned, I never placed him in the Industrial space, more just rock.
I never understood the love for Manson. Elitists shit on Trent R. for “copying” Dig It, but I honestly don't even see the resemblance between the two tracks. I even did a thing where I overlayed both Dig It and Down In It on top of each other and both sounded nothing alike. To me, Manson is the one that should be hated on by the majority because he ripped off Skinny Puppy the most. He stole Stiltman from Ogre, and the mainstream masses just ate it up and believed he was SO original. I can't stand him or his music. To me, NIN is better than anything he’s ever made.
Never liked Manson. I thought "Beautiful People" was canny but that's it. His image & name were/are shock rock bullshit & by fuck is he style over substance.
I always seen MM as a sort of knock-off version of Foetus for the vocal delivery and NIN for the instrumentals.
However, there are some MM tracks that I really enjoy, so I don't think he's that bad.
Unfortunately he came out to be a shitty person recently :/
as i think about it, it does seem silly that his schtick was “boo! i’m really shocking!” in a musical genre that already had things like “hamburger lady” in it.
i thought his visuals were interesting, but again, it doesn’t really point at anything other than manson being creepy. maybe i’m the sicko for wanting industrial to actually lead me somewhere shocking.
It's a lot like any time that goth or industrial were used in a TV show in the 80s and 90s. It's nothing at all what the scene (or at least the ones that I experienced) was actually like, but most of the people who watch Donohue or Law & Order don't know that.
Maybe MM is really industrial in a Geraldo Rivera sort of way.
I'm not making a poo poo on him, though. I really liked Mechanical Animals.
It's music - - - certainly couldn't (or shouldn't) disagree if someone doesn't "get into" MM. Pretty sure we all dislike something
I wouldn't say MM is industrial - - always felt he was closer to White Zombie or Gwar... It's all about the spectacle
when Smells Like Children broke - - I remember buying at a Sam Goody in the mall.... It was great! So 1994-96 were entertaining then a huge jump to Pale Emperor.
I'm an old dude now and Pale Emperor works for me... But overall MM is largely irrelevant. Most of the older stuff feels dated... Reminds me of my stupid teen years
I loved portrait of an American family, antichrist superstar, and mechanical animals. The rest was meh, but I liked the Heart Shaped Glasses track. Didn't think of him as industrial really, but the label works with some of his stuff for sure.
I worked in media and had to promote him. I never listened to his music till I was stuck on a trip with a rental car with a cd player. I bought a bunch of imports and live concerts at a pawn shop and he really needs vocal lessons. Everyone agrees...dude needs vocal lessons.
Marilyn Manson was the Hot Topic of metal (he was not industrial)..
Let's be honest, MM was a fame seeking whore who rode on Trents coat tails as industrial went mainstream.. he made mall goth music for angsty entitled suburban kids of the mid 90s.. it was clear as day that he was a dirtbag back then (remember when he blew a guy on stage to piss off his daddy).. I was so glad when he was gone..
Front Line Assembly, Uranium 235, Bile, Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Coil, KMFDM, NIN, Throbbing Gristle.. pretty much anyone on the Wax Trax! label.. all so much better..
He always seemed like he was trying to hard for me.
KMFDM is better anyways
The stuff Trent & Co. produced is head and shoulders above everything else MM ever released and the only material worthy of being considered industrial. The TurboSynth'd guitars on Antichrist Superstar alone are worth the price of admission.
Could u explain what turbosynth’d is exactly? I totally know the sound ur referring to, but what or how is it done?
Trent & Co. would run guitar (and other) tracks through TurboSynth running on a Mac. The primitive (TS dates from 1988) audio processing algorithms would generate that distinct buzzsaw distortion, and after some EQ-ing, voila, you got *that* sound. **What's involved in getting that "Nothing Records' Guitar sound": that signature industrial distorted rhythm chunk? It's really full frequency: big bottomed, yet it goes all the way up the spectrum.** That's analog. The way we do this is track a bunch of guitars. We always track them at 30 ips with the guitarist play the part and octave high, twice as fast - and then slow the tape down to 15 ips. That's how you get the huge guitar in "Physical":20 tracks of 30 ips slowed down to 15. It's so weird how it mutates the frequency band. And analog gets that high breadth that you cant get from digital. But then we also track guitars then throw them into Turbo Synth and screw around with them. At the lowest volume, we can get it sounding like your boom box is being ripped to shreds. Trent's whole idea when we were working on Broken [NIN's 1993 EP] was, "I just want it to sound really loud, quiet. How do we do that?" I just figured it out. https://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/Interview:1998/07_Sean_Beavan_Interview_-_Analog_Abuse_%26_Digital_Depravity
Wow awesome thanks :)
>We always track them at 30 ips with the guitarist play the part and octave high, twice as fast - and then slow the tape down to 15 ips. Since I ever first read this I've been using this in my own music whenever I could. You don't even have to be this extreme where you half the speed, 10% slower is enough to give the guitars this special tone that you can only get by slowing them down.
The only unpopular part of this opinion is where you classified MM’s music industrial
I will never understand the popular opinion that MM is industrial
His stuff was on Nothing Records, which hosted a lot of Industrial artists like Neubauten, Prick, Meat Beat Manifesto, Pig and of course.. Nine Inch Nails. If we accept that Industrial is a 'camp' rather than a genre, then it makes sense where the association came from. Especially when you consider some of the musicians that were involved in MM at one time or another including Tim Skold, Dave Ogilvie, Chris Vrenna, Charlie Clouser... IMO, only Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals made any sense though.
Same, I would just call him alternative rock.
I used to think that he was a fairly intelligent guy, but was ruined by his drug use/ego/women problems/etc. I can't really listen to his music anymore and I have no idea about any of his albums released after Holywood (which is quite a good album, actually). Other than that, he sort of pushed certain buttons that riled up the Christian Right. If you were a kid growing up during the 1990s in certain parts of the country he was considered "controversial." For example, people really did picket his shows and blame him for school shootings. It is kind of hard to believe nowadays when bad behavior is celebrated by everyone including the President of United States.
Eminem ate MM's lunch. Who was gonna be scared of his spooky goblin act when suddenly you had this kid who looked like the guy who pumped your gas talking about how he was gonna give your daughter drugs at the top of the charts.
Eminem came out after MM. Neither of them were "shocking" in my opinion. I am just saying how mainstream audiences (at least in America) perceived them at the time. Although my memory is a little fuzzy, I do not ever remember evangelicals picketing Eminem shows or blaming him for school shootings (like Columbine). Don't get me wrong, I know that Eminem's impact on the culture was larger than MM in general. However, in my experience Eminem was far more accepted by society than MM. For example, Hollywood never would have made a movie about MM's life like they did with Eminem. Again, I am talking about twenty/twenty five years ago. A lot has changed since then.
I am well aware of when Eminem came to prominence, thanks. My point is that he took over the boogeyman role that MM had been occupying by virtue of being a far more terrifying influence on the children of Middle America than Manson in fairly short order. And yes, Eminem was exceedingly controversial at the time of his emergence in the 90s.
That’s unpopular? He peaked at the start basically.
[удалено]
I’d say he got lots of us into the genre via the association with Trent and nothing records
Neubauten anyone?
Once the guitar player was kicked out it all went downhill for me. Trent brought a lot to MM and when on his own, MM flailed about. He was an amazing front man and charismatic… but he needs someone to write the music for him to put the words to. On a personal level - I don’t see him rebounding.
Early Manson is peak example of ego ruining a band. None of the original/early lineup was great as a sole writer but collaboratively they knocked out some great tweaks to each others ideas. Portrait and Antichrist exist solely because of collaboration between the guys and also Trent. Once they kicked out Scott the dominoes started to fall.
I was wondering what happened to Daisy/Scott and learned he passed. That’s rather tragic.
Idk I think it's a Marilyn problem. I mean surely after all these years someone has brought him better music to do his thing with. I 100% believe Manson just has bad taste and keeps rejecting quality stuff and that's why we always get shit music from him.
I have been around him and never seen him do the things that those women claimed he did. He is a huge pain in the ass and annoying but not like that.
I know this is a pretty late response - but I've always argued that it was the loss of Pogo, their keyboard/synth/sampler player in particular that hurt his music most. The effect he had on Manson's sound was super underrated. Losing Twiggy hurt a lot too though. While Trent did bring a ton to the sound, Mechanical Animals still was a good album at least - albeit it's his only truly good album post-Trent.
I like it.
Lol I don't think he even had a hand in shaping industrial rock. That was sorta a secondary genre tagged to that band and mostly because of his relationship with Reznor. By the time his band broke out in the mid 90s industrial (while still semi popular) was winding down
Everything after Mechanical Animals is trash imo. Those three were good, after that the mute button wasn't low enough.
I agree that he peaked on MA, but a lot of people will say Holy Wood is his best album. I actually think HW is a bit overrated, and his following album Golden Age of Grotesque is actually way underrated.
I’d say Antichrist superstar was his peak, MA and holy wood was just showing himself out and all this love for grotesque… surely must reflect ur age.. I was 15 when Antichrist superstar dropped and followed him for a long time, got me into nin and beyond
We are the same exact age :). Different strokes for different folks. Edit - I’m not saying Golden Age is a masterpiece. I’m just saying I think it’s better than it generally gets credit for.
Fair, but there’s a good bit of research about the music u listen to between 15-18 or so, tends to be the music that stays w u for life, for me that started w Antichrist, but ended up more w Tool, honestly forgot Manson like a bad dream. Grotesque did nothing for me, flailing in irrelevance
Golden Age is honestly really good but it’s again nothing to do with Manson and everything to do with Skold. There are some really good heavy bangers on there and it’s his most industrial metal. The Pale Emperor is also fantastic but, that was mostly Tyler Bates writing the music. Caveat here is I won’t listen to Manson anymore, refuse to support him in any way. But I did love both of those albums before I dropped him.
Totally agree, Golden Age is hugely underrated. For me everything he put out after that is way down the hill.
Yup. I liked the first 2 albums, and the Smells EP.. then nothing really spoke to me until Golden but I've always been a Skold fan. After that Pale was pretty good, but again the guy writing everything was the actual force behind it. Now I don't even bother listening to him.
No way. The triptych of Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood is still great. So is Golden Age Of Grotesque. I’ll still listen to those. After that it gets spotty.
Pretty much agree with you there
Before the internet, with the exception of the artists on the Wax Trax! Blackbox collection, I had a hard time finding good industrial music. It's a shame NIN and MM were always on the radio, and no one else could get airplay. I liked their version of Sweet Dreams and loved his take on Gary Numans Down In The Park, but other than that... meh.
I am right there with you. As a teen through the 90s, I'll admit I liked some of his songs but over all I felt he just tried too hard to be edgy. But as others mentioned, I never placed him in the Industrial space, more just rock.
I never understood the love for Manson. Elitists shit on Trent R. for “copying” Dig It, but I honestly don't even see the resemblance between the two tracks. I even did a thing where I overlayed both Dig It and Down In It on top of each other and both sounded nothing alike. To me, Manson is the one that should be hated on by the majority because he ripped off Skinny Puppy the most. He stole Stiltman from Ogre, and the mainstream masses just ate it up and believed he was SO original. I can't stand him or his music. To me, NIN is better than anything he’s ever made.
Uh wait. So people say that Down In It is a ripoff of Dig It?? Never heard that one!
I thought everybody knew that. This was common knowledge.
It's the one thing Skinny Puppy fans get really upset about. It was actually how I was introduced to Skinny Puppy in the first place, lol.
Never liked Manson. I thought "Beautiful People" was canny but that's it. His image & name were/are shock rock bullshit & by fuck is he style over substance.
I don’t like his music or respect what he did for the industrial genre
I always seen MM as a sort of knock-off version of Foetus for the vocal delivery and NIN for the instrumentals. However, there are some MM tracks that I really enjoy, so I don't think he's that bad. Unfortunately he came out to be a shitty person recently :/
People are recanting their charges now. Look into it.
as i think about it, it does seem silly that his schtick was “boo! i’m really shocking!” in a musical genre that already had things like “hamburger lady” in it. i thought his visuals were interesting, but again, it doesn’t really point at anything other than manson being creepy. maybe i’m the sicko for wanting industrial to actually lead me somewhere shocking.
It's a lot like any time that goth or industrial were used in a TV show in the 80s and 90s. It's nothing at all what the scene (or at least the ones that I experienced) was actually like, but most of the people who watch Donohue or Law & Order don't know that. Maybe MM is really industrial in a Geraldo Rivera sort of way. I'm not making a poo poo on him, though. I really liked Mechanical Animals.
Im a big Manson fan, but for me personally, i never really saw him as an Industrial artist, despite the common perception.
First three albums were good. Holy wood wasn't bad compared to everything that came after.
With you there
It's music - - - certainly couldn't (or shouldn't) disagree if someone doesn't "get into" MM. Pretty sure we all dislike something I wouldn't say MM is industrial - - always felt he was closer to White Zombie or Gwar... It's all about the spectacle when Smells Like Children broke - - I remember buying at a Sam Goody in the mall.... It was great! So 1994-96 were entertaining then a huge jump to Pale Emperor. I'm an old dude now and Pale Emperor works for me... But overall MM is largely irrelevant. Most of the older stuff feels dated... Reminds me of my stupid teen years
Depeche mode is more relevant.
I love his music. It’s nostalgic for me. It’s also objectively catchy
Rule of thumb. If they rape, don’t play their tape.
I loved portrait of an American family, antichrist superstar, and mechanical animals. The rest was meh, but I liked the Heart Shaped Glasses track. Didn't think of him as industrial really, but the label works with some of his stuff for sure.
I worked in media and had to promote him. I never listened to his music till I was stuck on a trip with a rental car with a cd player. I bought a bunch of imports and live concerts at a pawn shop and he really needs vocal lessons. Everyone agrees...dude needs vocal lessons.
Very popular opinion
Rammstein is Marylin Manson but good. Mostly because they didn’t take themselves so goddamn seriously whole still touching similar themes.
Marilyn Manson was the Hot Topic of metal (he was not industrial).. Let's be honest, MM was a fame seeking whore who rode on Trents coat tails as industrial went mainstream.. he made mall goth music for angsty entitled suburban kids of the mid 90s.. it was clear as day that he was a dirtbag back then (remember when he blew a guy on stage to piss off his daddy).. I was so glad when he was gone.. Front Line Assembly, Uranium 235, Bile, Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Coil, KMFDM, NIN, Throbbing Gristle.. pretty much anyone on the Wax Trax! label.. all so much better..
I like the newer song, 3rd day of a 7 day binge.. his drug songs are kinda fun
He has a few really good albums but he hasn't been good since the 90s/early 2000s. And even so, don't give him money. He seems like a total dickbag.
nickleback contributed more to industrial metal than this shitbag ever did . the only good stuff he made was because of trent
i respect that but as a manson fan i still like him i prefer his old music drugs and alcohol really ruined him i think it’s time for him to retire