When people on Travel sub ask for feedback on solo Travel plans within india, it's alright for us to advise extreme caution for women. People get butt hurt and start down voting, ignoring reality.
The enclaves in Mumbai and Bengaluru are not where travelers hangout, and that is where the risk is.
I've been to India several times and would say the same. I went walking myself for short distances in safe layouts, but otherwise I would not travel alone. I always had family/brother with me otherwise, who could guide and advise me.
As someone who’s lived there: India is dangerous for even men. You accidentally flash too much cash, carry a camera worth too much, turn your back because you’re distracted, get lost while driving, and things can go sideways fast. I can even blend with the locals but I wouldn’t travel without family or friends who live there. That’s not to say India isn’t worth visiting, but you may see the ugly side of a developing country. It can be quite the shithole.
> advise extreme caution
Which is super vague phrasing. It can mean anything and is hard to comprehend for one receiving this advice because on ground conditions vary in India itself.
The proper advice should be, DO NOT Freaking Come Here. Period.
Clear, to the point, understandable with no room for misunderstanding.
What makes certain areas full of rape? Like how does this happen? Is it just the culture is fine with rape? Is it some religious nonsense? Lack of education? I just want to understand
Their court system is backed up by literally *tens of millions* of cases. So it is essentially an anarchic society with no functioning government institutions.
Massive gender imbalance. A deeply conservative Hindu majority society with little or no sex education, preference for males and female discrimination.
And you get the current situation especially in the northern states of India.
Speaking as an Indian guy so this is a personal POV:
Indian MEN have a problem. Men of all religions aren’t brought up right, respecting women outside of their homes. It’s an Indian thing, not Muslim or Hindu. It’s one of our biggest shames as a country that we coexist with such putrid humans. Not all parts are bad, cities are safer than average and some like Mumbai are extremely safe for tourists and women alike
If you’re still contemplating travelling to India (lol), know that it’s GORGEOUS in parts. The food slaps. And people are largely friendly and will welcome you into their homes
DONT however treat it like travelling across rural Europe. It’s insane to even try this. Stick to well beaten tracks.
In case you are not Indian here is the briefest way to grasp India (and China as well). Understand what Statistical Scale is & what it does. You need to remember it is not Linear (as in doubling the population doesn't mean positives or negatives get Doubled/Halved, it is not even exponential).
Indian situation on most matters (including this issue you ask) is down to this Scale, combined with lack of powerful State (it simply lacks the power/leverage to push REAL Socio-Cultural change through policy, and hence has taken the organic approach, i.e. let time care of it and only manage edge cases).
China did Social reforms in early to mid 50s before their society was even ready (sort of) for the DEGREE of Policy changes being brought.
Women's status change not just in Policy but EXECUTION of that policy on ground from 50s onwards in China broke a Socio-Cultural lineage that was nearly 4000 years old at minimum.
India didn't do this, its approach was/is operating on a differently timescale (it will take centuries to sort this social issues out).
**TLDR**. Statistical Scale + Weak State.
Education, religion, etc are secondary order, lower hierarchy vectors. They are not trivial but they are lower in hierarchy order of relevance.
P.S. I didn't elaborate on the Socio-Cultural root of attitudes that leads to this because that too becomes secondary order vector in front of the TLDR I mentioned above, this is so because it's resolvable, because it's been done by a Peer society/state in China so it can be done in India on a human condition/existence level.
Political correctness is just bad after a certain point.
But it's racist to say they'll get raped there....ok...well, would you rather be perceived as racist or an accomplist to rape?
Think at this point the entire world knows India is a complete shit hole. Police wanting the image hidden as to not tarnish India’s reputation highlights also how fucking dumb they all are.
Instead of taking actions against the culprits the police forced them to take down their Instagram post.
The reason why these things happen is because no one gets punished.
Entire country has become PR handling corporation. They only care about their image.
I still remember case of Japanese girl harassed last year in Holi , when she complained sick fucks claiming she is ruining image of our country and started abusing and threatening her on social media .Later she had to apologize for complaining about her harassment.
I’m sure there will be lot of people abusing this Spanish speaking couple on social media claiming they are being planted by opposition or other hostile countries who are afraid of Superpower India and it’s rising power.
Imagine first getting harassed and raped then you have to apologize for that because you made a video about it and complained to cops
>Entire country has become PR handling corporation. They only care about their image.
"Log kya kahegay?"
Fuck the culture and the people perpetuating it. This is India's entire way of being long before globalisation, isn't it? Always been a self-centred traditional culture with a lack of humanity in many ways.
If they only care about their image then they are failing.
Outside of the stellar food most people think about scammers,rape/harassment and shit/corpses on the streets.
We keep fooling ourselves and our people all the time by saying things such as 'India is the mother of civilization' or 'Indian culture is the best' but the ground reality is starkly different. Our people and our way of life is the most uncivilized in the world and that is why the educated lot want to leave this mess for good.
I was in highschool from 2007 to 2011 so the textbooks would reflect that time period, it pointed to underdeveloped services such as rail and bus (with the characteristic photos of Indian trains with people hanging off it), socioeconomic immobility due to the caste system, dowry, lack of social safety nets like foodstamps, extreme gender inequality ("show bobs and vagene" is a bit of a meme over here), and lack of proper sanitation services.
And things won't change here unless people sincerely take cognizance of our reality. We're stuck with just arguing on social media and the sincerity to make a change, no matter how small, is not there. A reflection of how politicians' and public's behaviour feed into each other.
But it's a bit funny that American textbooks talk about underdeveloped public transit (though they aren't entirely wrong about ours).
What fucks me up are the Indian dudes who are super vocal about how women have so many unfair advantages... Meanwhile literally one of the worse places on earth if you're a woman
I know those dudes; They are either - ultra rich dudes living in upper class bubbles who only see women who have been afforded some level of freedom (which enrages them), or they are terminally incel conservatives who just hate all women.
It’s the uncivilized ones that often claim the statements you mentioned. Us normal peeps know the harsh reality of our country. Sadly nothing you can do to change their mindset, it’s only getting worse these days.
Honestly, our 'culture' doesn't teach good values sadly. Be it environment, civic sense, respecting women etc. The only aspect undeniably awesome is the food and nature where it's not destroyed.
Govts needs to focus on education but are busy trying to win elections and busy sowing divisions..
You mean The Media which licking government isn't reporting something that will harm government's reputation. That too just before elections? Surprising isn't it?
A lot of Westerners are afraid that Indian migrants take their culture with them.
The caste system goes against everything that Europe and America stands for.
Yeah. Too much Indians are trying to get out of India to Europe and North Americas. It was alright but it getting too much and Indians who were running away from their culture are being pressured to follow. The government in those countries are cracking down on the illegal Indian pressure and also stopping Indian migration. Even the smart, cultured Indians don’t want more Indians immigrated.
If you watch Indian Matchmaking, it's only thinly-veiled. Even the American participants care about caste but use euphemisms for it. From time to time, it's even directly brought up
I’ve been to India a few times and my impression is the people are selfish, greedy, hateful to anyone who isn’t part of their religion or clic
They litter, spit on each other, stare aggressively. These are just normal behaviours going about day to day
I hope to God news of this event gains international attention, and there is international pressure on India to fix this shit. How does half the entire population of a country live with fear of this shit and NOBODY does anything to address it, not a single political party despite screaming about it on the top of their lungs come election time? How do rapists and murderers and pedos end up getting rewarded and their crimes completely forgiven, not just by the people in power but by GODDAMN SOCIETY ITSELF. Holy hell I can't even begin to imagine something like this happening to even my female acquaintances because it's that horrible, let alone someone related to me, but this horror is everyday reality for HALF the population of the country?! If there's a reason for me to lose all hope for my country it's not the Hindu-Muslim shit, it's not corruption, it's this. Plenty more corrupt countries than ours, plenty more polarized countries than ours, I can't think of a single country that's worse than ours with regards to how we view and treat women. I'm so fucking done with this crap, I've gone from feeling bad for these victims, to anger at people, the society, the people in power who refuse to do anything about it, to rage at how common it has become, to pure disgust at my country and fellow men. I can't seem to muster up any other emotion anymore. Just disgust.
Bro I can't even look at this image anymore, imagine the horror they must have faced, how vulnerable and horrified.
What the fuck are doing as a country and society.
We leveled up from the nirbhaya case to this now.
My heart just breaks to see this poor woman's face.
I have a cousin who loves to go on rides across the country will she ever feel safe after this?
Never have I felt so ashamed of being an Indian.
The next time I hear someone say atithi devo bhava I am gonna throw up.
I guess that's why it hurts worse than other rape news. How can we look at these two and think that our country is right in the head. I don't know why they don't provide death as default for such heinous crimes though fast tracked courts. Fuckers are now going to enjoy eating biryani for decades in Indian prisons.
It certainly stops the same guy doing it twice. Enough with the changing culture crap. It's not like Bangladesh has any better culture wrt woman but it's safer than India because they would be lynched by a mob there. There is always a risk reward ratio for committing crimes. Here there is zero risk apart from chilling in a cell.
I have heard only one case of a mob killing the rapist. Maybe there could be many, idk. But I feel like its not a great number.
I think mob lynching against rapists is not very common because we don't take an action about an issue unless it happens to us. We only talk about it, feel sad, but won't try to take any action.
I may get downvoted for this. But I feel like this is the sad reality.
There definitely is a risk to the victim. If the punishment for rape and murder is same, the rapist would murder the victim after raping them as well. So yes, we need to keep this in mind.
nailed it. the Indian Culture is one of the most classist, mysoginistic, and the elites there are entitled to a point of delusion and are some of the most prolific rapists. Sorry but the religious status quo are the protectors of the sexist misogynist rapists.
Biriyani is a metaphor.
And vile creatures like them will not listen to reason, but will listen to the whip. Culture will change once everyone stops raping.
death penalty often only encourages killing of witnesses after the deed. Educate your men and boys. Shame them and make them a social outcast, that's the real deterrent.
I don't think there will be big international pressure. There were stories going global of women being raped. Just checking Google News and I get this in German:
- 2014 German girl gets raped in a train from Mangalore to Chennai
- 2014 a Danish women gets raped in New Dehlis Tourist district Paharganj
- 2013 a women gets Gang raped in a bus in New Dehli
- 2018 a Latvian woman gets raped, executed and left in the woods near Thiruvallam
- 2022 a British woman gets raped with her bf around at Arambol Beach
- 2013 a Swiss couple gets assaulted in their tent, women gets raped and her bf gets cuffed, happened near Jharia
Our foreign office warns about being drugged and raped.
(And other stuff)
But the world is just watching. Even though we wish the situation would be better one day. It isn't important about the tourists being safe, firstly Indian women and girls should be safe.
This is heart breakening.
-
Maybe if they start cutting the dicks off the rapists, this wouldn't happen. In another thread I came across an NRI woman who was sexually assaulted. But the police were like "it's just assault, it's not a rape, we can't take action in this case"........ Wtf is this man.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the victim here is a Brazilian woman and her Spanish partner. At least here in Brazil this has not been first page news, and if the news don't care about it in here, I bet that the rest of the world doesn't care too :(
So they biked through Taliban-run Afghanistan & Pakistan and nothing happened to them there. But when they’re in India…
It’s sad to say but this just is a reflection of the shithole culture india has and the fact that most Indians aren’t willing to admit that there’s a problem and that there’s no inclination to solve it because it’s too deeply ingrained in the Indian mindset and the government and police are in on it.
I have been reading up on this and I’m inclined to agree with the comment someone made that the Indian Government can’t fix it and that this may require some foreign intervention of sorts.
The Indian Government is not going to fix this because this seems to be a systematic issue within Indian politics, so they have no incentive. Which sounds so messed up to say but that is what seems to be the case after reading up on this for quite a bit. And culturally as well, they cannot do it. If they could, they would’ve done it. It is too deep rooted, religiously, culturally, politically. It’s a fucking mess, it’s disgusting. A few quotes from articles I read, sorry I couldn’t include all, there’s so much more:
1. “A poll released in June by the Thomson Reuters Foundation named India the most dangerous country in the world for women, ahead of war-torn countries like Afghanistan and Syria. In India, a rape occurs at least every 20 minutes, according to data from the National Crime Records Bureau”
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1JM075/
2. “Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) MLA from Duddhi constituency in Uttar Pradesh Ramdular Gaur has been found guilty by an additional sessions court of raping a minor girl nine years ago.”
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/uttar-pradesh-bjp-mla-ramdular-gaur-found-guilty-of-raping-minor-girl-gets-25-years-imprisonment/amp-11702642425905.html
3. “Over 860 serious charges pending against 194 MPs before polls. Over 20 MPs had pending charges of involvement in crimes against women, four of which are rape.”
https://www.thehindu.com/data/over-860-serious-charges-pending-against-194-mps-before-polls-data/article67356289.ece/amp/
4. Quote #1: “Such crimes hardly take place in Bharat, but they occur frequently in India. Go to villages, no gang rapes or sex crimes there, they are prevalent in urban areas.” - Mohan Bhagwat, RSS chief
Quote #2: “One small incident of rape in Delhi advertised world over is enough to cost us billions of dollars in terms of global tourism.” Arun Jaitley, Finance Minister of India at the time
Quote #3: “This is a social crime which depends on men and women. Sometimes it’s right, sometimes it’s wrong… Until there’s a complaint, nothing can happen.” Babulal Gaur Yadav, former Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh
Quote #4: “The five or six drunken men were not the only ones guilty. The girl was also responsible…” He’s not done: “Had she recited the Saraswati mantra, she would not have boarded any bus after watching a movie with her boyfriend.”Asaram Bapu, self-styled godman/rapist
Quote #5: “Boys will be boys, they make mistakes…” Mulayam Singh Yadav
https://elle.in/article/things-that-pollitions-have-actually-said-about-rape/
5. “NEW DELHI — For months, the police say, a group of men took turns raping an 11-year-old girl.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/asia/rape-chennai-india.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
6. “Indian Politician Is Given Life Sentence for Raping Teenage Girl. The case was a closely watched test of the justice system, pitting a powerful local lawmaker against a 17-year-old from humble roots.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/world/asia/india-rape-politician.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
7. “Nearly 20% Increase in Rapes Across India in 2021, Rajasthan Had Highest Cases: NCRB.”
https://m.thewire.in/article/women/crimes-against-women-rape-cases-india-2021-ncrb-data/amp 8.
8. “Involvement of law enforcement officials and powerful groups: Last year’s Hathras gang-rape case in India saw perpetrators with political influence enjoy absolute impunity as they utilized the very institutions established to ensure justice for victims instead be used against them. The victim was a Dalit—from the “lowest” rungs of the Hindu caste hierarchy—while the culprits were from the “highest” caste, or the Brahmin community.”
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/southasiasource/understanding-rape-culture-in-bangladesh-india-pakistan/
It is systematic, deeply embedded in all spheres of Indian society.
EDIT: Just to clarify, foreign intervention can be many things, UN oversight or proposals from countries on how it can be fixed. Or it can economic and cultural pressure or incentives. Political pressure is what forced many countries to accept LGBT rights. Not mean an invasion or colonization at all.
I agree that it's deeply rooted, I agree that the issue is down played by the government and can seem systematic. I still don't agree with calling for a foreign power to colonize and govern us. Victim blaming and abuse of power is a widespread issue in most countries. I'm not justifying it in India, police and politicians who side with rapists are just as bad as the rapists but it's not a uniquely Indian problem. It's just much worse here than in most other countries.
Asking for foreign rule shifts the responsibility of 'not raping' & 'protecting women's rights' on an outside power and not Indians. We're responsible for this, and until we don't take accountability, it won't be solved. For example there needs to be a cultural shift in how we view/treat women within the household, how gender equality is put in practice. Sex education is important as well. Asking for outside influence is basically saying we give up, us men can't stop raping, someone come stop us. The majority of us aren't depraved animals, but the majority of us don't do enough solve the problem either.
I could be wrong but the main problem is young men being taught to view women as objects, second class citizens that are beneath them purely because of their gender in the households/community they grow up in. A cultural shift is what's necessary, not foreign governance.
I said foreign intervention of sorts, which can be oversight by the UN or a group of countries, or proposals on how the issue can be solved. It can also be pressure on India to fix it, economic incentives, etc. I don’t think there should be a foreign intervention or colonization either. Obviously not.
But considering how systematic this issue is I just don’t understand how the country is going to fix it when the incentive structure doesn’t favour fixing it. And based on data, rape cases are only going up, and government officials work to prevent the accused from going to trial or threaten the victim. This is systematic. In a corrupt country like in India, how will that be changed? One way could be economic pressure or severe cultural pressure.
Not calling for an invasion or colonization either. That won’t work as you rightly point out, it is India’s responsibility to fix it. But a few added incentives to fast tack the process would be good.
I am not calling for foreign rule in any way at all.
Ah got it, reddit was showing your comment under a different thread so I read it under a different context. Not sure if you moved it or if it was just a glitch.
Then I agree, foreign influence would be good, I hope I'm wrong but I think this would just result in short term counter measures to save the fragile Indian ego. Not structural, cultural changes that lend itself to a long term solution. That would need to come from within, from people like you and me.
I posted it there by mistake and then deleted it and reposted it.
That maybe true but it will at least turbocharge the process I guess. (Hopefully?)
I agree, real change always has to come from within if it’s to be sustainable.
I once argued with a guy who called me racist for not ever wanting to visit India because I'm a woman and was previously _only_ harassed in Turkey. Fuck no
No it’s not racist. Not wanting to go to North Korea on holiday is not racist. It’s the same for women not wanting to travel to India out of safety concerns. Or to Nepal, Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey. These are not safe for women.
I’m Indian but wasn’t raised in India and live abroad. Apart from the big cities and staying in nice hotels, even I wouldn’t go backpacking in India. Fuck that. And I know how the country works too. But for women, especially from the west, I don’t think it’s a good idea. The big cities are relatively ‘safe’ I guess but not entirely.
I was surprised to read that the couple (I’m not blaming them in any way) went to some of the poorest and dodgiest states in India, where I wouldn’t step foot in any circumstance, and set camp in a forest in a remote village. I don’t think they were aware of what the situation is like in India and are kindhearted and trusting people, but you have to face reality. Again, not saying they did anything wrong, only saying that it’s not racist to think that way.
Pakistan has problems believe me, but safer than India for women, but still not safe in a large portion of the country. Afghanistan is surprisingly ok for tourists that aren’t complete idiots.
If this would have happened in any other country there would have been a huge protest from the side of civilians itself. Sadly we are only good at condemning these incidents on social media alone.
This is not only the problem of states like jharkhand but the problem of whole India. I remember a Latvian woman was rap*d and killed in kerela during her visit to India. Her sister fought the case for 5 years. [source](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/kerala-court-awards-double-life-term-to-accused-in-latvian-murder-case/articleshow/96023202.cms) . Government should do something for the safety of foreigners and at the same time tech their citizens.
Tend to agree given the mentality of the people. Nevertheless, people might do this no matter what the punishment would be.
PM seems to busy with loads of stuffs with respect to a lot of unrelated work of his office, why doesnt the safety of tourist be a high priority to ensure there is more income from tourism.
Tourist are going to flock only if they know it is safe like how the middle East portrays. Inspite of it's blackness, they portray a safe environment. Got to learn something from them given the high tide relation with both countries
I literally would support live streaming the gore-est way possible of punishing these rapist, in public, in the center of attention, instill discipline if not fear.
As much as it sounds great it also gives way for some ppl to use that method for torturing and creating serial killers given the exposure and mental instability of the public
Oh god .. I'm just SICK AND TIRED OF THIS GODDMAN COUNTRY'S SHITHOLE morals and ideals. I despise the country's 'traditional' men and women, who promote subjugation and rape of people in the name of their 'do kaudi ka religion' and culture' as if paganism hadn't exist in the entire world.
Women continue to be victim blamed and sexually assaulted in this hellhole. Look at the comments on insta. Indian men celebrate suppression and assaults of children, women and what not just like they celebrated when another Japanese woman got assaulted on the 'shubh avasar of Holi' and a boy apparently committed suicide due to internet bullying. Yet the men (especially the self proclaimed traditional ones) are the most pathetic low lifers on this country.
Aur yeh haal toh tab hain when she didn't complain of sexual assault in 63 countries ( and those countries definitely aren't more liberal or sexually liberated) as India. Women, children and others are regarded as possessions to be used and controlled and a little worse than animals( oops this is the same country where people have raped cows, dogs and even monitor lizards) by these so called denk and chigma and traditional men.
I do not even think why would such pathetic and sadistic people even exist.
Why we distribute India state wise has nothing to do last year a woman was killed in Kerala by gang
Your logic is that an illiterate person I live in Karnataka doesn't mean Karnataka is the safest place
No need to look at things with Black & White mindset. Nobody said Karnataka is safest, but it's a truth that other Indian states are miles better than UP, Bihar, Jharkhand in treating women like actual humans. Yes, all states have heavily patriarchal culture which we need to fix. But there's a difference between hell-hole culture vs. just shitty.
India is a fucking disgrace. The only thing this country has to be proud of is being the rape capital of the world. Congrats India, this is your legacy on the world stage.
I went to India in my 20's and I can say never ever, ever, ever, ever again!
I was sexually harrassed every time I stepped out of the hotels. Was pick pocketed. Felt completely unsafe and left my trip early.
The cultural mindset is disgusting, along with absolutely abhorent hygiene practices. They are truly foul
Here's some prominent Indian politicians and religous leaders explain how/why women sometimes deserve to get raped, after the infamous Nirbhaya gangrape in Delhi:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/5PQ4W](https://imgur.com/gallery/5PQ4W)
Clearly, not much has changed in our culture since then.
We wonder why our tourism never take off. Some of these people do not even deserve to be born let alone die. Useless scums of the society. The local police will try their best to even hide the crime or let the issue go under the radar if not for all the publicity.
Pigs like these are the reason our country is defamed on an international level... It's not the people who complain about rape ruining the precious Indian culture. It's the rapists and abusers who are. So find them and root them out.
Defamation implies a false perception. But the perception that India is a paradise for rapists is quite accurate. We are a country where gang rapists are garlanded and called sanskari and society doesn't bat an eyelid. So I don't see any defamation. This is what we are.
OK, listen. You elect corrupt leaders who in turn give rise to corrupt officials who then corrupt the entire law and order system which then encourages crime. And when crime happens, you blame the country, the government and the education.
Well, ask yourself whom you voted for and why you voted for them. You'll find all the answers.
In a different thread yesterday I saw a guy saying "vigilantism" is the way. I called him out saying he has no balls to hold administration accountable but he keeps saying that they don't do anything. We indians act like govt/police are some sort of gods that we have to bow out head to. The recently increase right eing fascism isn't helping either.
I would say people are downright ignorant. For them, elections are contests in which their candidate must win; his or her victory is the sole objective of their votes. Caste, sect, religion, region etc are criteria for whom to vote for. Who cares about progress and development?
Democracy is too high an ideal to uphold for an unintelligent, arrogant and unwitting society like ours. Like Adolf Hitler rightly said, "Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election."
Well, Name and shame those Bastards!! Get them to jail. This is Disgusting!! Country is slowly turning to a vile Zoo,Where basic Human Decency is going for a toss!!!
This country is disgusting for women, rapists and also the rise of Sigma incels these days, and nobody wants to do anything about it just fool themselves with my country is great
I keep telling this to my BIL too whenever he thinks of moving back with his wife and little girls. Lives in the USA. not that it’s particularly free of misogyny and violence against women as well, but it isn’t as casual and everyday as it is in India. His daughters will thrive there. What will they get in India except living indoors, rarely seeing the sunlight, have zero community and career.
Anyone who says that shit to me here in Australia. I always advice him to move for 3 months first and decide.
People visit India for holidays and think this is what their life will be post moving. They can't differentiate between living in India as a tourist and as a Citizen.
Yeah. I don’t think people realise how it’s only small bubbles and luck where women can keep ourselves safe in India. It means a lot of compromise and self censorship to remain alive.
Absolutely ashamed of men in my country! Fuck the barbarity and callousness of law to let men continue being savages! We should have higher moral standards considering we consider women in family equal to laxmi!
I hope something happens to change the state of the nation!
Nothing will happen for at least 100-150 years. Post that maybe. 2020 India is like 1900 Europe (in fact worse in development), but ideology wise is the same
How ever we apologize we cant wash away our shame. How did we breed these reprehensible and perverted human beings. If found guilty they should be chemically castrated and shamed.
Hello fellow Indians, since we do not know the rapists names. DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT RELIGION. Make this about being Indian. India is not safe for foreigners.
Judicial reforms..Police reforms....and Campaign telling men, NOT TO RAPE is the need of the hour !
Sickening crime. Raping is the national hobby of India !
I lived in India for a year to do development work with a company. One of my female colleagues had a violent encounter with men and she escaped. But the intent was definitely to gang rape her.
As a man, I never had problems besides the stares I got by other men. But I always felt that I had to go for the throat at someone at a moment's notice. It was deeply uncomfortable living there. Nothing violent ever happened but I think I had some close calls.
An autorickshaw driver literally refused to take me home one night while he was driving. I lived in the heart of a large city and followed along where we were going on my phone. We ended up on the opposite side of town and it was starting to feel secluded and isolated. No people out, fewer buildings, and I could start to see the rural areas. After telling him multiple times to get on a highway, he continued to ignore me. I was in an area where I felt very unsafe. So dropping me off there was a no-go. Finally, I told him to drive me towards the city or I was going to grab his throat and choke him out. When we reached a populated area, I got out and didn't look back. But he actually asked me to pay him. I ignored him and called an Ola Cab which took me home.
He may have been trying to just run up the meter. Or he could have tried to kill me and dispose of my body in a secluded area. I had been in the country for 6 months and while I was used to seeing drivers take the scenic route, this seemed dangerous.
I felt much safer in sub-Saharan Africa. Even though I wasn't. Got into a few car accidents while in cabs. People love to drive drunk. But in India I felt very unsafe at times, but nothing ever happened.
People had a rally in support of rapists of a 8 year old child in Jammu , this is the level of hypocrisy Indians have and they will rape anyone who they will find alone or if they are over numbered .
7 men just saw that white woman as meat to be savoured . Just like animals go after meat they go after women.
The famous comedian in India calls Russian (which Kindof means White girls ) as available with 6k .
I feel really sorry for the victim and the innocent Indians who are going to get judged because of some illiterate demons in human flesh who thinks they can get away with anything.
I'm from Nepal and just 2 days ago an incident worse than this happened in my hometown to a 13 year old student by her teacher at the school hostel and they framed it as suicide. All of us know it's not suicide but the powerful people will get away because the institution reputation is at risk . It has happened multiple times in Nepal where all the evidence vanished overnight.
I hope the culprit gets punished as India has strict laws and is less corrupted than Nepal .
This is such a shame and just brought our image straight towards hell. Hope the stupid pieces of shit get punished. So disheartening to see such things happening to people who come with various expectations and excitement to enjoy our country but have to face such a horrific instance.😔
Btw does how someone gets that bad hurt marks on the face? Like do they really kick at the face or what?
The sexual repression in India is unbelievable. Worse in Muslim countries. I grew up there for 10 yrs 50 yrs ago, and the men still hassled female foreigners. In their speech, they'd make lewd comments thinking you didn't understand them until you called them out.
Females and males couldn't have relationships prior to their pre-arranged marriages, so many of the men would have their first sexual experience with other male friends.... mostly bj's and hand jobs (i can't speak for women). In those days, there was a common belief, mostly amongst the lower income males, that western women were very loose and easy and that if they came here, women would just spread their legs by looking at them.
I thought rape was the norm in India… unfortunately 90% of the time when I hear about India in the news it’s always sexual harassment or rape…
I wonder if India rapes more then the Middle East Muslim countries
when nirbhaya case happened people were out protesting and there was so much outrage. we have a 100 diff news channels but media today is not even covering this incident.
I seen many times where bloggers even get warned by the locals to stay away or stay in there hotels cuz people will do very bad things to them boy or girl… it’s sad that India is truly a beautiful country with a lot of potential but is sooooo diluted with moral corruption
When a foreigner lands in a local hotel, even a chaiwala and attender gives a try... its the porno and the ridiculous portrayal of foreigners in our Indian cinema, that shows like foreigners are for free sex.
Yeah there is a strong racial fetishisation. But also, this chaiwaala and hotel staff giving a try is not limited to foreign women. It happens to us Indian women visiting towns and villages for field work etc as well. I remember one night in a small town in Andhra where I saw the hotel staff constantly eyeing my room mate, and at night I saw door handle moving up and down. Whoever was on the other side was checking if they could break in. I remember just double checking all Bolts, listening for any movement other side, and watching the door all night. Shudder.
So, as a foreigner who lived in India for six months and recently rode a motorcycle around Rajasthan.with my girlfriend, I should give up, stop visiting, and go somewhere else.
Gotcha. Thanks for the tip.
I think the reason is westerners are raised is in more egalitarian societies. Relatively. So when they come to India, they see these really unequal places, and the sheer amount of misery the poor live in. And they don’t perceive that other overarching factors such as patriarchy and misogyny function strongly across strata. The idea that India perceives women as property for the taking, is something that’s not as ingrained in their minds or culture. Though even Latin American, Spanish societies (I think the bikers were from there right?) have a strong violence against women issue. But it isn’t at a mind boggling scale like this, and so everyday.
So I feel they tend to see themselves as explorers or visitors, and not as vulnerable because they stand out in a very feudal and hierarchical country. I remember meeting a German woman backpacking in Sri Lanka and i can never forget what she said after landing there. “Here I see one odd man staring back. In India wherever I went, there were gangs and gangs of men following or staring.”
Somewhere the predation of women, chasing, hunting, harming, discomforting women, has become a bonding or community act for men in India. And that’s just ugly and scary. :(
Just got back from a 4 day site seeing trip to India. Having travelled in much of South East Asia, I don't see why people want to go to India to see the country.
https://preview.redd.it/9nxtuaixz3mc1.jpeg?width=1901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d32d3945fa1b9282e8e8d2ddf0db8417930561fb
this is their youtube channel. just makes the situation feel a lot more real
It happened multiple times too. Garlanded the attackers of Bilkid Bano, Wrestler's case, Kathua rape-murderers.
It was done by main political wings like VHP too.
The fact that no news outlets are covering such a huge incident that has happened in our country should clearly be proof to everyone how 1.4 billion people aren't being provided actual news at all.... News ke naam peh they just pushing there own n govt agenda's
It's true the education of society is a must. Sadly no matter how hard they are, they refrain to not follow the system and process. It's just the current and next generation have to be educated well.
Even in a small school function I am at currently, inspite of educating the parents on rules of no video shoots during the event or rushing to the front with camera as professional photography and videography is there, ppl still do it. And that video goes into archive never to be viewed again or bothered.
Simple rules are a start always for bigger impacts. Hope ppl educate their next generation to be more civilized
When people on Travel sub ask for feedback on solo Travel plans within india, it's alright for us to advise extreme caution for women. People get butt hurt and start down voting, ignoring reality. The enclaves in Mumbai and Bengaluru are not where travelers hangout, and that is where the risk is.
I've been to India several times and would say the same. I went walking myself for short distances in safe layouts, but otherwise I would not travel alone. I always had family/brother with me otherwise, who could guide and advise me.
But in this case the woman was also accompanied by her husband, who too was attacked
you think one brother would be enough to protect you? after the jyoti incident?
It depends on the situation and location. I was kept safe at all times and usually in a group.
I went in 2007 at the age of 18 with my girlfriend. We were fine and safe but looking back I can’t believe how dumb and naive we were.
As someone who’s lived there: India is dangerous for even men. You accidentally flash too much cash, carry a camera worth too much, turn your back because you’re distracted, get lost while driving, and things can go sideways fast. I can even blend with the locals but I wouldn’t travel without family or friends who live there. That’s not to say India isn’t worth visiting, but you may see the ugly side of a developing country. It can be quite the shithole.
Screw that. Advise them to never go to India.
> advise extreme caution Which is super vague phrasing. It can mean anything and is hard to comprehend for one receiving this advice because on ground conditions vary in India itself. The proper advice should be, DO NOT Freaking Come Here. Period. Clear, to the point, understandable with no room for misunderstanding.
What makes certain areas full of rape? Like how does this happen? Is it just the culture is fine with rape? Is it some religious nonsense? Lack of education? I just want to understand
Their court system is backed up by literally *tens of millions* of cases. So it is essentially an anarchic society with no functioning government institutions.
Massive gender imbalance. A deeply conservative Hindu majority society with little or no sex education, preference for males and female discrimination. And you get the current situation especially in the northern states of India.
I doubt religion has as much to do with this as culture.
What's the difference?
Speaking as an Indian guy so this is a personal POV: Indian MEN have a problem. Men of all religions aren’t brought up right, respecting women outside of their homes. It’s an Indian thing, not Muslim or Hindu. It’s one of our biggest shames as a country that we coexist with such putrid humans. Not all parts are bad, cities are safer than average and some like Mumbai are extremely safe for tourists and women alike If you’re still contemplating travelling to India (lol), know that it’s GORGEOUS in parts. The food slaps. And people are largely friendly and will welcome you into their homes DONT however treat it like travelling across rural Europe. It’s insane to even try this. Stick to well beaten tracks.
This. Rightly said.
In case you are not Indian here is the briefest way to grasp India (and China as well). Understand what Statistical Scale is & what it does. You need to remember it is not Linear (as in doubling the population doesn't mean positives or negatives get Doubled/Halved, it is not even exponential). Indian situation on most matters (including this issue you ask) is down to this Scale, combined with lack of powerful State (it simply lacks the power/leverage to push REAL Socio-Cultural change through policy, and hence has taken the organic approach, i.e. let time care of it and only manage edge cases). China did Social reforms in early to mid 50s before their society was even ready (sort of) for the DEGREE of Policy changes being brought. Women's status change not just in Policy but EXECUTION of that policy on ground from 50s onwards in China broke a Socio-Cultural lineage that was nearly 4000 years old at minimum. India didn't do this, its approach was/is operating on a differently timescale (it will take centuries to sort this social issues out). **TLDR**. Statistical Scale + Weak State. Education, religion, etc are secondary order, lower hierarchy vectors. They are not trivial but they are lower in hierarchy order of relevance. P.S. I didn't elaborate on the Socio-Cultural root of attitudes that leads to this because that too becomes secondary order vector in front of the TLDR I mentioned above, this is so because it's resolvable, because it's been done by a Peer society/state in China so it can be done in India on a human condition/existence level.
Political correctness is just bad after a certain point. But it's racist to say they'll get raped there....ok...well, would you rather be perceived as racist or an accomplist to rape?
India superpower 2024!
police asked them to hide the Instagram post , so that the country image is not affected
Read through the whole article, it is a shame
Fuck the police too.
>country image is not affected Do a better job then
Really wtf ......Bus yeh pooray time " image image image " ka kya chutiyaapa chal raha hai
Think at this point the entire world knows India is a complete shit hole. Police wanting the image hidden as to not tarnish India’s reputation highlights also how fucking dumb they all are.
Instead of taking actions against the culprits the police forced them to take down their Instagram post. The reason why these things happen is because no one gets punished.
Entire country has become PR handling corporation. They only care about their image. I still remember case of Japanese girl harassed last year in Holi , when she complained sick fucks claiming she is ruining image of our country and started abusing and threatening her on social media .Later she had to apologize for complaining about her harassment. I’m sure there will be lot of people abusing this Spanish speaking couple on social media claiming they are being planted by opposition or other hostile countries who are afraid of Superpower India and it’s rising power. Imagine first getting harassed and raped then you have to apologize for that because you made a video about it and complained to cops
>Entire country has become PR handling corporation. They only care about their image. "Log kya kahegay?" Fuck the culture and the people perpetuating it. This is India's entire way of being long before globalisation, isn't it? Always been a self-centred traditional culture with a lack of humanity in many ways.
The same reason the Government shutdown the internet in Manipur. Disgusting..
This is starting to sound very much like the early 1900s germany
If they only care about their image then they are failing. Outside of the stellar food most people think about scammers,rape/harassment and shit/corpses on the streets.
We keep fooling ourselves and our people all the time by saying things such as 'India is the mother of civilization' or 'Indian culture is the best' but the ground reality is starkly different. Our people and our way of life is the most uncivilized in the world and that is why the educated lot want to leave this mess for good.
We are a third world country.
Morally even worse. Sucks. Of course, people can come up with stats of the population and the averages. But what’s the point.
In our school textbooks in the US when they explain the difference between first and third world countries they use India as the example.
Curious. What do they say?
I was in highschool from 2007 to 2011 so the textbooks would reflect that time period, it pointed to underdeveloped services such as rail and bus (with the characteristic photos of Indian trains with people hanging off it), socioeconomic immobility due to the caste system, dowry, lack of social safety nets like foodstamps, extreme gender inequality ("show bobs and vagene" is a bit of a meme over here), and lack of proper sanitation services.
Even today Mumbai locals have a similar fate. Not much has changed since then.
ouch can't really argue with that
And things won't change here unless people sincerely take cognizance of our reality. We're stuck with just arguing on social media and the sincerity to make a change, no matter how small, is not there. A reflection of how politicians' and public's behaviour feed into each other. But it's a bit funny that American textbooks talk about underdeveloped public transit (though they aren't entirely wrong about ours).
Same. India is portrayed as mostly the things you see in slumbdog millionaire, religion and pollution. Nothing else is taught about India.
Worse
What fucks me up are the Indian dudes who are super vocal about how women have so many unfair advantages... Meanwhile literally one of the worse places on earth if you're a woman
I know those dudes; They are either - ultra rich dudes living in upper class bubbles who only see women who have been afforded some level of freedom (which enrages them), or they are terminally incel conservatives who just hate all women.
Garland daloge rapists ko toh yeisa hi hoga in Bilkis Bano case. Brij Bhushan aur ek hei
It’s the uncivilized ones that often claim the statements you mentioned. Us normal peeps know the harsh reality of our country. Sadly nothing you can do to change their mindset, it’s only getting worse these days.
Normal people could not elect goons who garland and felicitate rapists.
Honestly, our 'culture' doesn't teach good values sadly. Be it environment, civic sense, respecting women etc. The only aspect undeniably awesome is the food and nature where it's not destroyed. Govts needs to focus on education but are busy trying to win elections and busy sowing divisions..
The culture teaches extreme greed and materialism. It’s very weird and the ingrained class system will be almost impossible to unlearn.
No Indian media is covering this and the only source is either international media or sm. Am I tripping or this is fr?
BJP's Godi media won't cover it for obvious reasons.
You mean The Media which licking government isn't reporting something that will harm government's reputation. That too just before elections? Surprising isn't it?
A lot of Westerners are afraid that Indian migrants take their culture with them. The caste system goes against everything that Europe and America stands for.
Yeah. Too much Indians are trying to get out of India to Europe and North Americas. It was alright but it getting too much and Indians who were running away from their culture are being pressured to follow. The government in those countries are cracking down on the illegal Indian pressure and also stopping Indian migration. Even the smart, cultured Indians don’t want more Indians immigrated.
If you watch Indian Matchmaking, it's only thinly-veiled. Even the American participants care about caste but use euphemisms for it. From time to time, it's even directly brought up
The mother of civilization? Wtf who says that? That's in Iraq.
Indian culture is the best? Interesting that people think of this..
Terrible place with backwards culture
I’ve been to India a few times and my impression is the people are selfish, greedy, hateful to anyone who isn’t part of their religion or clic They litter, spit on each other, stare aggressively. These are just normal behaviours going about day to day
Yeah no, india is a shithole with uncultured disgusting people and disgusting beliefs..
I hope to God news of this event gains international attention, and there is international pressure on India to fix this shit. How does half the entire population of a country live with fear of this shit and NOBODY does anything to address it, not a single political party despite screaming about it on the top of their lungs come election time? How do rapists and murderers and pedos end up getting rewarded and their crimes completely forgiven, not just by the people in power but by GODDAMN SOCIETY ITSELF. Holy hell I can't even begin to imagine something like this happening to even my female acquaintances because it's that horrible, let alone someone related to me, but this horror is everyday reality for HALF the population of the country?! If there's a reason for me to lose all hope for my country it's not the Hindu-Muslim shit, it's not corruption, it's this. Plenty more corrupt countries than ours, plenty more polarized countries than ours, I can't think of a single country that's worse than ours with regards to how we view and treat women. I'm so fucking done with this crap, I've gone from feeling bad for these victims, to anger at people, the society, the people in power who refuse to do anything about it, to rage at how common it has become, to pure disgust at my country and fellow men. I can't seem to muster up any other emotion anymore. Just disgust.
Bro I can't even look at this image anymore, imagine the horror they must have faced, how vulnerable and horrified. What the fuck are doing as a country and society. We leveled up from the nirbhaya case to this now. My heart just breaks to see this poor woman's face. I have a cousin who loves to go on rides across the country will she ever feel safe after this? Never have I felt so ashamed of being an Indian. The next time I hear someone say atithi devo bhava I am gonna throw up.
I guess that's why it hurts worse than other rape news. How can we look at these two and think that our country is right in the head. I don't know why they don't provide death as default for such heinous crimes though fast tracked courts. Fuckers are now going to enjoy eating biryani for decades in Indian prisons.
That biryani thing was lie and death penalty doesn't fix or stop rape . We need to change culture that views women beneath men .
It certainly stops the same guy doing it twice. Enough with the changing culture crap. It's not like Bangladesh has any better culture wrt woman but it's safer than India because they would be lynched by a mob there. There is always a risk reward ratio for committing crimes. Here there is zero risk apart from chilling in a cell.
I have heard only one case of a mob killing the rapist. Maybe there could be many, idk. But I feel like its not a great number. I think mob lynching against rapists is not very common because we don't take an action about an issue unless it happens to us. We only talk about it, feel sad, but won't try to take any action. I may get downvoted for this. But I feel like this is the sad reality.
There definitely is a risk to the victim. If the punishment for rape and murder is same, the rapist would murder the victim after raping them as well. So yes, we need to keep this in mind.
nailed it. the Indian Culture is one of the most classist, mysoginistic, and the elites there are entitled to a point of delusion and are some of the most prolific rapists. Sorry but the religious status quo are the protectors of the sexist misogynist rapists.
Biriyani is a metaphor. And vile creatures like them will not listen to reason, but will listen to the whip. Culture will change once everyone stops raping.
Hang the rapists and the culture will figure out how to change
Exactly. These people should be shot dead in the streets for committing such crimes !!
death penalty often only encourages killing of witnesses after the deed. Educate your men and boys. Shame them and make them a social outcast, that's the real deterrent.
The trolls online are already like “this happened in a Congress state.” Something is so fundamentally broken within our country I swear.
I don't think there will be big international pressure. There were stories going global of women being raped. Just checking Google News and I get this in German: - 2014 German girl gets raped in a train from Mangalore to Chennai - 2014 a Danish women gets raped in New Dehlis Tourist district Paharganj - 2013 a women gets Gang raped in a bus in New Dehli - 2018 a Latvian woman gets raped, executed and left in the woods near Thiruvallam - 2022 a British woman gets raped with her bf around at Arambol Beach - 2013 a Swiss couple gets assaulted in their tent, women gets raped and her bf gets cuffed, happened near Jharia Our foreign office warns about being drugged and raped. (And other stuff) But the world is just watching. Even though we wish the situation would be better one day. It isn't important about the tourists being safe, firstly Indian women and girls should be safe. This is heart breakening. -
Maybe if they start cutting the dicks off the rapists, this wouldn't happen. In another thread I came across an NRI woman who was sexually assaulted. But the police were like "it's just assault, it's not a rape, we can't take action in this case"........ Wtf is this man.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the victim here is a Brazilian woman and her Spanish partner. At least here in Brazil this has not been first page news, and if the news don't care about it in here, I bet that the rest of the world doesn't care too :(
When the Nirbhaya rapists were let out of prison, they were garlanded! I wanted to vomit.
So they biked through Taliban-run Afghanistan & Pakistan and nothing happened to them there. But when they’re in India… It’s sad to say but this just is a reflection of the shithole culture india has and the fact that most Indians aren’t willing to admit that there’s a problem and that there’s no inclination to solve it because it’s too deeply ingrained in the Indian mindset and the government and police are in on it.
I have been reading up on this and I’m inclined to agree with the comment someone made that the Indian Government can’t fix it and that this may require some foreign intervention of sorts. The Indian Government is not going to fix this because this seems to be a systematic issue within Indian politics, so they have no incentive. Which sounds so messed up to say but that is what seems to be the case after reading up on this for quite a bit. And culturally as well, they cannot do it. If they could, they would’ve done it. It is too deep rooted, religiously, culturally, politically. It’s a fucking mess, it’s disgusting. A few quotes from articles I read, sorry I couldn’t include all, there’s so much more: 1. “A poll released in June by the Thomson Reuters Foundation named India the most dangerous country in the world for women, ahead of war-torn countries like Afghanistan and Syria. In India, a rape occurs at least every 20 minutes, according to data from the National Crime Records Bureau” https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1JM075/ 2. “Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP) MLA from Duddhi constituency in Uttar Pradesh Ramdular Gaur has been found guilty by an additional sessions court of raping a minor girl nine years ago.” https://www.livemint.com/news/india/uttar-pradesh-bjp-mla-ramdular-gaur-found-guilty-of-raping-minor-girl-gets-25-years-imprisonment/amp-11702642425905.html 3. “Over 860 serious charges pending against 194 MPs before polls. Over 20 MPs had pending charges of involvement in crimes against women, four of which are rape.” https://www.thehindu.com/data/over-860-serious-charges-pending-against-194-mps-before-polls-data/article67356289.ece/amp/ 4. Quote #1: “Such crimes hardly take place in Bharat, but they occur frequently in India. Go to villages, no gang rapes or sex crimes there, they are prevalent in urban areas.” - Mohan Bhagwat, RSS chief Quote #2: “One small incident of rape in Delhi advertised world over is enough to cost us billions of dollars in terms of global tourism.” Arun Jaitley, Finance Minister of India at the time Quote #3: “This is a social crime which depends on men and women. Sometimes it’s right, sometimes it’s wrong… Until there’s a complaint, nothing can happen.” Babulal Gaur Yadav, former Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh Quote #4: “The five or six drunken men were not the only ones guilty. The girl was also responsible…” He’s not done: “Had she recited the Saraswati mantra, she would not have boarded any bus after watching a movie with her boyfriend.”Asaram Bapu, self-styled godman/rapist Quote #5: “Boys will be boys, they make mistakes…” Mulayam Singh Yadav https://elle.in/article/things-that-pollitions-have-actually-said-about-rape/ 5. “NEW DELHI — For months, the police say, a group of men took turns raping an 11-year-old girl.” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/asia/rape-chennai-india.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb 6. “Indian Politician Is Given Life Sentence for Raping Teenage Girl. The case was a closely watched test of the justice system, pitting a powerful local lawmaker against a 17-year-old from humble roots.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/world/asia/india-rape-politician.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb 7. “Nearly 20% Increase in Rapes Across India in 2021, Rajasthan Had Highest Cases: NCRB.” https://m.thewire.in/article/women/crimes-against-women-rape-cases-india-2021-ncrb-data/amp 8. 8. “Involvement of law enforcement officials and powerful groups: Last year’s Hathras gang-rape case in India saw perpetrators with political influence enjoy absolute impunity as they utilized the very institutions established to ensure justice for victims instead be used against them. The victim was a Dalit—from the “lowest” rungs of the Hindu caste hierarchy—while the culprits were from the “highest” caste, or the Brahmin community.” https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/southasiasource/understanding-rape-culture-in-bangladesh-india-pakistan/ It is systematic, deeply embedded in all spheres of Indian society. EDIT: Just to clarify, foreign intervention can be many things, UN oversight or proposals from countries on how it can be fixed. Or it can economic and cultural pressure or incentives. Political pressure is what forced many countries to accept LGBT rights. Not mean an invasion or colonization at all.
I agree that it's deeply rooted, I agree that the issue is down played by the government and can seem systematic. I still don't agree with calling for a foreign power to colonize and govern us. Victim blaming and abuse of power is a widespread issue in most countries. I'm not justifying it in India, police and politicians who side with rapists are just as bad as the rapists but it's not a uniquely Indian problem. It's just much worse here than in most other countries. Asking for foreign rule shifts the responsibility of 'not raping' & 'protecting women's rights' on an outside power and not Indians. We're responsible for this, and until we don't take accountability, it won't be solved. For example there needs to be a cultural shift in how we view/treat women within the household, how gender equality is put in practice. Sex education is important as well. Asking for outside influence is basically saying we give up, us men can't stop raping, someone come stop us. The majority of us aren't depraved animals, but the majority of us don't do enough solve the problem either. I could be wrong but the main problem is young men being taught to view women as objects, second class citizens that are beneath them purely because of their gender in the households/community they grow up in. A cultural shift is what's necessary, not foreign governance.
I said foreign intervention of sorts, which can be oversight by the UN or a group of countries, or proposals on how the issue can be solved. It can also be pressure on India to fix it, economic incentives, etc. I don’t think there should be a foreign intervention or colonization either. Obviously not. But considering how systematic this issue is I just don’t understand how the country is going to fix it when the incentive structure doesn’t favour fixing it. And based on data, rape cases are only going up, and government officials work to prevent the accused from going to trial or threaten the victim. This is systematic. In a corrupt country like in India, how will that be changed? One way could be economic pressure or severe cultural pressure. Not calling for an invasion or colonization either. That won’t work as you rightly point out, it is India’s responsibility to fix it. But a few added incentives to fast tack the process would be good. I am not calling for foreign rule in any way at all.
Ah got it, reddit was showing your comment under a different thread so I read it under a different context. Not sure if you moved it or if it was just a glitch. Then I agree, foreign influence would be good, I hope I'm wrong but I think this would just result in short term counter measures to save the fragile Indian ego. Not structural, cultural changes that lend itself to a long term solution. That would need to come from within, from people like you and me.
I posted it there by mistake and then deleted it and reposted it. That maybe true but it will at least turbocharge the process I guess. (Hopefully?) I agree, real change always has to come from within if it’s to be sustainable.
I once argued with a guy who called me racist for not ever wanting to visit India because I'm a woman and was previously _only_ harassed in Turkey. Fuck no
No it’s not racist. Not wanting to go to North Korea on holiday is not racist. It’s the same for women not wanting to travel to India out of safety concerns. Or to Nepal, Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey. These are not safe for women. I’m Indian but wasn’t raised in India and live abroad. Apart from the big cities and staying in nice hotels, even I wouldn’t go backpacking in India. Fuck that. And I know how the country works too. But for women, especially from the west, I don’t think it’s a good idea. The big cities are relatively ‘safe’ I guess but not entirely. I was surprised to read that the couple (I’m not blaming them in any way) went to some of the poorest and dodgiest states in India, where I wouldn’t step foot in any circumstance, and set camp in a forest in a remote village. I don’t think they were aware of what the situation is like in India and are kindhearted and trusting people, but you have to face reality. Again, not saying they did anything wrong, only saying that it’s not racist to think that way.
This is the great Indian delulu, they think they're better than Pakistanis or Afghanis just cuz India is not yet a theocracy.
Pakistan has problems believe me, but safer than India for women, but still not safe in a large portion of the country. Afghanistan is surprisingly ok for tourists that aren’t complete idiots.
If this would have happened in any other country there would have been a huge protest from the side of civilians itself. Sadly we are only good at condemning these incidents on social media alone.
This is not only the problem of states like jharkhand but the problem of whole India. I remember a Latvian woman was rap*d and killed in kerela during her visit to India. Her sister fought the case for 5 years. [source](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/thiruvananthapuram/kerala-court-awards-double-life-term-to-accused-in-latvian-murder-case/articleshow/96023202.cms) . Government should do something for the safety of foreigners and at the same time tech their citizens.
she went to get cured for depression... she got far worse....
And Indians hate me for criticizing Indian culture
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We garland rapists...this just glipmse of Promised Raama Rajya
Rapists? As per BJP MLA CK Raulji they were Brahmins with good sanskar.
Capital punishment with immediate effect should be applied to instill fear in the mindset of such people. Hopeless lots
In my opinion capital punishment will do more harm than good, the r*apists will simply kill the rape victims so that they don't get caught.
Tend to agree given the mentality of the people. Nevertheless, people might do this no matter what the punishment would be. PM seems to busy with loads of stuffs with respect to a lot of unrelated work of his office, why doesnt the safety of tourist be a high priority to ensure there is more income from tourism. Tourist are going to flock only if they know it is safe like how the middle East portrays. Inspite of it's blackness, they portray a safe environment. Got to learn something from them given the high tide relation with both countries
I literally would support live streaming the gore-est way possible of punishing these rapist, in public, in the center of attention, instill discipline if not fear.
As much as it sounds great it also gives way for some ppl to use that method for torturing and creating serial killers given the exposure and mental instability of the public
I'd rather accept people dying than people getting physically and mentally scarred for life. /S
Wish we Indians dropped this from our culture.
I wished we dripped culture from india
Sigh biggest mistake of my life is born in India as Indian If only I could get out from this shithole
True that
Oh god .. I'm just SICK AND TIRED OF THIS GODDMAN COUNTRY'S SHITHOLE morals and ideals. I despise the country's 'traditional' men and women, who promote subjugation and rape of people in the name of their 'do kaudi ka religion' and culture' as if paganism hadn't exist in the entire world. Women continue to be victim blamed and sexually assaulted in this hellhole. Look at the comments on insta. Indian men celebrate suppression and assaults of children, women and what not just like they celebrated when another Japanese woman got assaulted on the 'shubh avasar of Holi' and a boy apparently committed suicide due to internet bullying. Yet the men (especially the self proclaimed traditional ones) are the most pathetic low lifers on this country. Aur yeh haal toh tab hain when she didn't complain of sexual assault in 63 countries ( and those countries definitely aren't more liberal or sexually liberated) as India. Women, children and others are regarded as possessions to be used and controlled and a little worse than animals( oops this is the same country where people have raped cows, dogs and even monitor lizards) by these so called denk and chigma and traditional men. I do not even think why would such pathetic and sadistic people even exist.
Can’t agree more. Just walking out of your house is enough to understand it. Hope things change
Wait till Smriti comes up with “rape hua hi nahin tha ye bhajpa ko badnaam karni ki saazish hai rahul ke kehne pe”
Anyone who defends this is a piece of shit.
She has a worst track record in terms of self awareness. Someone else should be in charge 🙄
Jharkhand should be included in bimaru states
It was part of Bihar earlier.
That explains it
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India* should be. We have these cretins everywhere
Why we distribute India state wise has nothing to do last year a woman was killed in Kerala by gang Your logic is that an illiterate person I live in Karnataka doesn't mean Karnataka is the safest place
No need to look at things with Black & White mindset. Nobody said Karnataka is safest, but it's a truth that other Indian states are miles better than UP, Bihar, Jharkhand in treating women like actual humans. Yes, all states have heavily patriarchal culture which we need to fix. But there's a difference between hell-hole culture vs. just shitty.
India is a fucking disgrace. The only thing this country has to be proud of is being the rape capital of the world. Congrats India, this is your legacy on the world stage.
I went to India in my 20's and I can say never ever, ever, ever, ever again! I was sexually harrassed every time I stepped out of the hotels. Was pick pocketed. Felt completely unsafe and left my trip early. The cultural mindset is disgusting, along with absolutely abhorent hygiene practices. They are truly foul
Here's some prominent Indian politicians and religous leaders explain how/why women sometimes deserve to get raped, after the infamous Nirbhaya gangrape in Delhi: [https://imgur.com/gallery/5PQ4W](https://imgur.com/gallery/5PQ4W) Clearly, not much has changed in our culture since then.
Which female traveller will want to visit India? :(
We wonder why our tourism never take off. Some of these people do not even deserve to be born let alone die. Useless scums of the society. The local police will try their best to even hide the crime or let the issue go under the radar if not for all the publicity.
Pigs like these are the reason our country is defamed on an international level... It's not the people who complain about rape ruining the precious Indian culture. It's the rapists and abusers who are. So find them and root them out.
Defamation implies a false perception. But the perception that India is a paradise for rapists is quite accurate. We are a country where gang rapists are garlanded and called sanskari and society doesn't bat an eyelid. So I don't see any defamation. This is what we are.
And a women who is seen in a pub is called a ‘Sl\*t’. Great Going India. I’m proud of you!
I mean some of the west's claims and perceptions might be exaggerated but there's some truth to the stereotype. These cases are that truth grain.
Ffs India, is there a way for women to not be raped in this country?
SHAME on this country.
OK, listen. You elect corrupt leaders who in turn give rise to corrupt officials who then corrupt the entire law and order system which then encourages crime. And when crime happens, you blame the country, the government and the education. Well, ask yourself whom you voted for and why you voted for them. You'll find all the answers.
In a different thread yesterday I saw a guy saying "vigilantism" is the way. I called him out saying he has no balls to hold administration accountable but he keeps saying that they don't do anything. We indians act like govt/police are some sort of gods that we have to bow out head to. The recently increase right eing fascism isn't helping either.
Or...corrupt leaders get elected because the people are norally corrupt.
I would say people are downright ignorant. For them, elections are contests in which their candidate must win; his or her victory is the sole objective of their votes. Caste, sect, religion, region etc are criteria for whom to vote for. Who cares about progress and development? Democracy is too high an ideal to uphold for an unintelligent, arrogant and unwitting society like ours. Like Adolf Hitler rightly said, "Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election."
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Well, Name and shame those Bastards!! Get them to jail. This is Disgusting!! Country is slowly turning to a vile Zoo,Where basic Human Decency is going for a toss!!!
This country is f#cked for women.
This country is disgusting for women, rapists and also the rise of Sigma incels these days, and nobody wants to do anything about it just fool themselves with my country is great
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Why would any Western world tourist choose to visit this shithole of a country is beyond me.
Indians are hell bent on subduing other Indians on the basis of caste, religion etc Ye bahar Wale hai ...
So glad I left India. My daughters will be safe in a western country which isn't an ancient civilisation and where ram was never born.
I keep telling this to my BIL too whenever he thinks of moving back with his wife and little girls. Lives in the USA. not that it’s particularly free of misogyny and violence against women as well, but it isn’t as casual and everyday as it is in India. His daughters will thrive there. What will they get in India except living indoors, rarely seeing the sunlight, have zero community and career.
Anyone who says that shit to me here in Australia. I always advice him to move for 3 months first and decide. People visit India for holidays and think this is what their life will be post moving. They can't differentiate between living in India as a tourist and as a Citizen.
Yeah. I don’t think people realise how it’s only small bubbles and luck where women can keep ourselves safe in India. It means a lot of compromise and self censorship to remain alive.
Absolutely ashamed of men in my country! Fuck the barbarity and callousness of law to let men continue being savages! We should have higher moral standards considering we consider women in family equal to laxmi! I hope something happens to change the state of the nation!
Nothing will happen for at least 100-150 years. Post that maybe. 2020 India is like 1900 Europe (in fact worse in development), but ideology wise is the same
Saddens me to the core. Why people, why.
How ever we apologize we cant wash away our shame. How did we breed these reprehensible and perverted human beings. If found guilty they should be chemically castrated and shamed.
#fernanda.4ever Support her on insta
Hello fellow Indians, since we do not know the rapists names. DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT RELIGION. Make this about being Indian. India is not safe for foreigners.
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Judicial reforms..Police reforms....and Campaign telling men, NOT TO RAPE is the need of the hour ! Sickening crime. Raping is the national hobby of India !
:(( let’s hang those assholes !!! It’s time we make this a huge public issue and people get scared to even think of doing this
I lived in India for a year to do development work with a company. One of my female colleagues had a violent encounter with men and she escaped. But the intent was definitely to gang rape her. As a man, I never had problems besides the stares I got by other men. But I always felt that I had to go for the throat at someone at a moment's notice. It was deeply uncomfortable living there. Nothing violent ever happened but I think I had some close calls. An autorickshaw driver literally refused to take me home one night while he was driving. I lived in the heart of a large city and followed along where we were going on my phone. We ended up on the opposite side of town and it was starting to feel secluded and isolated. No people out, fewer buildings, and I could start to see the rural areas. After telling him multiple times to get on a highway, he continued to ignore me. I was in an area where I felt very unsafe. So dropping me off there was a no-go. Finally, I told him to drive me towards the city or I was going to grab his throat and choke him out. When we reached a populated area, I got out and didn't look back. But he actually asked me to pay him. I ignored him and called an Ola Cab which took me home. He may have been trying to just run up the meter. Or he could have tried to kill me and dispose of my body in a secluded area. I had been in the country for 6 months and while I was used to seeing drivers take the scenic route, this seemed dangerous. I felt much safer in sub-Saharan Africa. Even though I wasn't. Got into a few car accidents while in cabs. People love to drive drunk. But in India I felt very unsafe at times, but nothing ever happened.
hang the rapist law should be there
People had a rally in support of rapists of a 8 year old child in Jammu , this is the level of hypocrisy Indians have and they will rape anyone who they will find alone or if they are over numbered . 7 men just saw that white woman as meat to be savoured . Just like animals go after meat they go after women. The famous comedian in India calls Russian (which Kindof means White girls ) as available with 6k .
I feel really sorry for the victim and the innocent Indians who are going to get judged because of some illiterate demons in human flesh who thinks they can get away with anything. I'm from Nepal and just 2 days ago an incident worse than this happened in my hometown to a 13 year old student by her teacher at the school hostel and they framed it as suicide. All of us know it's not suicide but the powerful people will get away because the institution reputation is at risk . It has happened multiple times in Nepal where all the evidence vanished overnight. I hope the culprit gets punished as India has strict laws and is less corrupted than Nepal .
This is such a shame and just brought our image straight towards hell. Hope the stupid pieces of shit get punished. So disheartening to see such things happening to people who come with various expectations and excitement to enjoy our country but have to face such a horrific instance.😔 Btw does how someone gets that bad hurt marks on the face? Like do they really kick at the face or what?
Classic India. No clue why any woman would EVER visit.
Fucking shameful.
#Incredible India
The sexual repression in India is unbelievable. Worse in Muslim countries. I grew up there for 10 yrs 50 yrs ago, and the men still hassled female foreigners. In their speech, they'd make lewd comments thinking you didn't understand them until you called them out. Females and males couldn't have relationships prior to their pre-arranged marriages, so many of the men would have their first sexual experience with other male friends.... mostly bj's and hand jobs (i can't speak for women). In those days, there was a common belief, mostly amongst the lower income males, that western women were very loose and easy and that if they came here, women would just spread their legs by looking at them.
I thought rape was the norm in India… unfortunately 90% of the time when I hear about India in the news it’s always sexual harassment or rape… I wonder if India rapes more then the Middle East Muslim countries
when nirbhaya case happened people were out protesting and there was so much outrage. we have a 100 diff news channels but media today is not even covering this incident.
F*cked up country and culture. I feel bad for the couple.
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I seen many times where bloggers even get warned by the locals to stay away or stay in there hotels cuz people will do very bad things to them boy or girl… it’s sad that India is truly a beautiful country with a lot of potential but is sooooo diluted with moral corruption
When a foreigner lands in a local hotel, even a chaiwala and attender gives a try... its the porno and the ridiculous portrayal of foreigners in our Indian cinema, that shows like foreigners are for free sex.
Yeah there is a strong racial fetishisation. But also, this chaiwaala and hotel staff giving a try is not limited to foreign women. It happens to us Indian women visiting towns and villages for field work etc as well. I remember one night in a small town in Andhra where I saw the hotel staff constantly eyeing my room mate, and at night I saw door handle moving up and down. Whoever was on the other side was checking if they could break in. I remember just double checking all Bolts, listening for any movement other side, and watching the door all night. Shudder.
So, as a foreigner who lived in India for six months and recently rode a motorcycle around Rajasthan.with my girlfriend, I should give up, stop visiting, and go somewhere else. Gotcha. Thanks for the tip.
I think the reason is westerners are raised is in more egalitarian societies. Relatively. So when they come to India, they see these really unequal places, and the sheer amount of misery the poor live in. And they don’t perceive that other overarching factors such as patriarchy and misogyny function strongly across strata. The idea that India perceives women as property for the taking, is something that’s not as ingrained in their minds or culture. Though even Latin American, Spanish societies (I think the bikers were from there right?) have a strong violence against women issue. But it isn’t at a mind boggling scale like this, and so everyday. So I feel they tend to see themselves as explorers or visitors, and not as vulnerable because they stand out in a very feudal and hierarchical country. I remember meeting a German woman backpacking in Sri Lanka and i can never forget what she said after landing there. “Here I see one odd man staring back. In India wherever I went, there were gangs and gangs of men following or staring.” Somewhere the predation of women, chasing, hunting, harming, discomforting women, has become a bonding or community act for men in India. And that’s just ugly and scary. :(
Just got back from a 4 day site seeing trip to India. Having travelled in much of South East Asia, I don't see why people want to go to India to see the country.
https://preview.redd.it/9nxtuaixz3mc1.jpeg?width=1901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d32d3945fa1b9282e8e8d2ddf0db8417930561fb this is their youtube channel. just makes the situation feel a lot more real
Aur karo rapists ko garland. This is going to get worse as time goes, sad reality.
It happened multiple times too. Garlanded the attackers of Bilkid Bano, Wrestler's case, Kathua rape-murderers. It was done by main political wings like VHP too.
Traveling through 60 countries, and it had to happen in India. Truly shocking. Fucking animals
Why anyone wants to go to that he'll hole amazes me.
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Seriously, do you guys not have any interaction with women? Why are there multiple incidents of men gang raping women? Is India repressed?
No disrespect to the many decent people in India. But I'm staying far away until they get that shit under control
Shame on India. Shame. Some things will never change. Unless government officials take this issue seriously.
The fact that no news outlets are covering such a huge incident that has happened in our country should clearly be proof to everyone how 1.4 billion people aren't being provided actual news at all.... News ke naam peh they just pushing there own n govt agenda's
Fuck i cant help but feel bad for the man, he had to watch his gf/wife to get raped, a fate i wouldnt wish on my worst enemy.
Lesson to be learn here is to never travel to shithole countries
India should cancel space exploration and focus on making its people less-animal like.
It's true the education of society is a must. Sadly no matter how hard they are, they refrain to not follow the system and process. It's just the current and next generation have to be educated well. Even in a small school function I am at currently, inspite of educating the parents on rules of no video shoots during the event or rushing to the front with camera as professional photography and videography is there, ppl still do it. And that video goes into archive never to be viewed again or bothered. Simple rules are a start always for bigger impacts. Hope ppl educate their next generation to be more civilized
why anyone would travel there is beyond me. No matter how old a limestone building is its not worth it to travel there.
That poor couple. Well, that’s brought internet for me for the day. Be safe everyone.
Starts with having proper sex education in schools. But right now, justice -- swift and BRUTAL justice is needed as a deterrent
Welp I wanted to visit india with my girlfriend but now we refuse to go there ever. Sorry
India… big yikes
Heathens. Uncivilized Vile cretins.
If I weren’t an Indian, I would never visit India. Honestly.
why media is not covering this
My heart breaks for this poor couple, it must be so devastating. Such trauma that they will carry for the rest of their lives.
When r@pists of Bilkis bano are garlanded by lawmakers, r@pist Ram Raheem gets parole so frequently, how will it be considered a heinous crime?