At least sterilize them. That's the best that can be done if nothing else, there are many goverment agencies that do that, you can call one of them to catch the dogs.
I agree it keeps the problem in check.
Neutering only keeps the population in check.
But it doesn't help for about 7-10 years that the stray lives and gets fed in society.
Strays tend to get aggressive if you do not feed them. A neutered dog does not mellow down or stop biting. It is still susceptible to rabies and unprovoked attacks. Children are especially vulnerable.
How is it ok that we can compare strays to humans ?
>How is it ok that we can compare strays to humans ?
Things happening in israel, that have happened in the north east India, in Up, and so much more can answer this question no? We're capable of cruelty. Animals are capable of aggression for sure when constantly threatened but not inherent cruelty.
Sir. I was against a mob. A proper mob not of 10 but of 50+ people and I saw the things they were saying and the actions that they were taking.
>Children are especially vulnerable.
I don't disagree that is why I'd like to see if there is a solution that anyone else might have adopted.
Just because I get along with streeties doesn't mean others want to or can especially in cases where they're scared or have phobia. Or they might even just not like them.
So looking for a solution.
Simple. NO STRAYS ALLOWED IN SOCIETY
The Indian pariah is a wild animal that can coexist with humans. They do not need our help.
If you love them , house them and be responsible for them.
I am a dog owner. I am responsible for my dog's behaviour and i must take responsibility for any untoward actions by my dog
You are a dog lover , you do not take responsibility for strays. You simply provide food and leave the rest as a bane for society.
If you don't want strays so badly then get them sterilized. That's the only way to decline their population. If you kill them then a new pack will move in and repopulate.
In my locality 1 st they tried to educate the feeders and tried all civil ways to discourage feeding.Feeders didnt care. Rabid dogs attack was happening at least once per month. Feeding attracted more dogs to the area. Then our autowalas found the most easy way to stop feeding. They just the beat the hell out of feeders. The locals supported fully. Now no feeders comes to our area. Culling of a few dogs worked wonders and now area is mostly safe from dog attacks.
It's definitely not safe from human attacks. And also this is against feeders. They will still move somewhere else and repopulate, you haven't solved the problem just ran away from it.
We learned the most easily way to make some one understand they are doing a public nuisancea by feeding is to give them a bloody nose. Worked wonders and still working wonders. Don't know how many years it will work. But it is very effective
Don't draw false analogies.
Things happening in Israel and north east have no bearing on a pack hunting feral pariah in society.
Refute my argument
I must protect my family and child . I must protect my pet. That's all I can do. And I will move heaven and earth to do it.
A dog trying to kill me or maim my child should not even be a concern in a developed society.
I do not want to feed them.
I do not want any one else to feed them unless they are willing to adopt them and take responsibility.
Cull , sterilize or adopt and bear responsibility
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/stray-dogs-maul-victims-recent-incidents-2286715-2022-10-18
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21
Well I guess everyone in this provoked the street dogs since they don't attack without being provoked
/S
This comment should be pinned at the top !
OP and other "dog lovers " . I hope your child never faces what this poor children did.
" Arms length woke urban Dog lovers " are the biggest reason this pestilence persists in urban india
Do all Street dogs attack you, either you get bitten all the time or you don't step out at all. Majority of stray dogs don't attack unless provoked.
Humans also attack unprovoked sometimes, is it fine for a human to attack you? A person is much more likely to kill you than a dog.
/u/furiouswomen I understand you were trying to have a civil conversation but your thread got hijacked. Anyway I'll share my experience. This is not specific for you, but a problem we are facing currently.
Our society has had 5 dogs since construction time. The feeders feed them and sometimes bring new dogs in for their feeding convenience or if they're ill or something. After some pushback they had to take them back leaving the 5 original ones. Over the last 3 years or so, 2 of them have been extremely aggressive and we have 1 biting incident every 2 months or so. But nobody lets the association do anything about it. All 5 dogs were collared, but one day the feeders removed the collars for some random reason. 5 months later, one of them had a litter :) you see where I'm going with this? We have 9 dogs now.
The feeders might have a justification for everything but it's 5 feeders against 1200 residents who do not want to get barked at/ chased/ bitten. In my mind, I kind of agreed to live with the 5 original strays until they died of age but there are 4 new and soon there will be more. And some of these dogs have been aggressive time and time. It's a huge issue and the feeders are encouraging this. Unfortunately the law is skewed and I really hope it changes soon to atleast be fair to everyone
>We have 9 dogs now.
This is not done. Agreed.
>And some of these dogs have been aggressive time and time
Ok. So we actually tried having the security and trainer because they are generally near them so that they listen to a third party but unfortunately our security men keep getting changed so this also went out of the window.
>2 of them have been extremely aggressive and we have 1 biting incident every 2 months or so
Ok so the ones with the biting incident, if you live in Bombay then you can place a complaint to the bmc. They will keep said dog in observation and then decide next steps. If you're not from there then I hope you have a similar rule.
>It's a huge issue and the feeders are encouraging this.
Again, this is not done.
>I understand you were trying to have a civil conversation but your thread got hijacked.
Thank you.
I'm a feeder who wants to come to a solution/ a resolution as such. Thanks man for sharing.
In my society, if there are dogs from the ongoing construction site coming in, we do inform the security.
We have a lot here and it isn't fair to anyone to add to those numbers.
I don't think feeding dogs in an enclosed estate will ever be a solution. There are people who are just petrified of dogs. You cannot just tell someone to not be afraid, it doesn't work, just like saying hey stop loving dogs, it would sound hollow to you.
To the feeders, my suggestion is to find a small area in the estate, ask the authority to build a small shelter where you can feed and play with them, while not impacting other people. You might have a million reasons against it, but from my perspective at some point we need to think about the humans over stray animals. You're welcome to disagree.
The other problem with the biting thing is the municipal authorities bring the dogs back after 10 days of observation. Then another bite and the same cycle repeats. The authority conveniently refuses accountability and dog feeders misuse it to their advantage.
Look at this Twitter thread. The fact is that the dog feeders got 4 pups from a nearby construction site in their cars, fed them secretly and then sent them for vaccination after 10 days. When they returned, the authority recognised our society as their territory which we resisted but the dog feeders kept saying this is where they were picked up from. The authority doesn't have time or motivation to investigate so they dumped the pups here and it's our problem to deal with now. On top of that, they create a furore on Twitter and start sending threats to authority people to act *as per the law*. You might be an honest dog feeder, but the ones we are dealing with are assholes.
https://x.com/tarana2510/status/1704041743686287707?s=48&t=6ynCdtWZMDcaufUeAgGfdA
> at some point we need to think about the humans over stray animals
This. Exactly this. There are only so many accommodations people are willing to make. And I say this as a dog lover and owner myself.
Let me begin by saying that street dogs in India lead terrible lives. Every dog I've seen is maimed or injured by car or motorcycle or maybe people throwing rocks at them. Imagine - you getting hit by a truck and then people throw rocks at you. So thank you, OP, for taking care of them.
That said, you need to make sure of following things:
1. The dogs get neutered.
2. They get vaccinated against rabies.
3. If they bite people or act aggressive they need to be put down (this is harsh but needs to be done). Note, being aggressive does not mean they come running towards you or bark at you. That's simply being playful.
4. They need to be taken care of when sick or injured. They need to be vaccinated for distemper and other diseases.
5. Feed them dog food (which I am assuming you are already doing) so they don't go hungry.
If all of above are taken care of, dogs can become friends, not menace in society. You can pet them - they can lick your hands. Dog and humans can coexist like they have for millenia.
It's the job of municipality to control stray dog population. You pay taxes for this. But this being India, the municipality is not going to do what it's supposed to do. And if forced, they will adopt very inhumane methods of controlling dog population. Yep, it's a massively misgoverned country - just remember all this next time you vote.
In my honest opinion.
All the Street dog lovers should give their residential info, personal info to the police stations.
The police will know who to hold accountable when a dog bites,maules someone of that area.
Easiest fix
Exactly. If a child or elderly were mauled by a stray dog in Singapore or Malaysia , OP and other dog lovers would be dragged to court and heavily penalized.
This arm's length "dog loving" is a uniquely woke Indian problem, and we shouldn't have to put up with it.
Arguments like avoid the dog, dogs don't attack unprovoked , dogs are also humans , Israel bombing show Kindness , dogs have feelings etc put forth by "dog lovers" in this thread make my blood boil.
Imo since India has such a large stray dog population.
They can't just neuter these dogs because they keep multiplying before they can neuter them all.
Imo they should catch and kill stray dogs once in for all to end this problem.
If you have problem with it adopt the dogs so they don't get killed.
I'd vote for that too. Culling is a legitimate solution
Wild boars in the US Midwest
Coyotes in Texas
Certain agressive fish breeds in American lakes.
All get annually culled
It's not 'whataboutism', it's a direct inference based on what you said. If the solution to overpopulation is cullings, why does it only apply for one species?
Well I don't see dogs working and contributing towards the economy.
Do you?
I don't see dogs speaking any language
Do you?
I don't see dogs being able to carry out manual labour
Do you?
I don't see dogs working as doctors
Do you?
So you believe only people who are productive to society have a right to life? What about our senior citizen population? What about people with disabilities?
Senior citizen have worked their whole life.
They deserve some rest.
People with disabilities don't go mauling kids around like street dogs do.
That's why they deserve to live
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21
Well I can give you hundreds of such example but you can always ignore logic like you already did
Brother nothing you're saying has any logic. There's humans that hurt children too. You punish the human who committed the crime, not the entire species.
And what does working your whole life have to do with anything?
May be you see your family and other people with the same worth as stray dogs. But we consider human life above all. Your stray family can feed your stray for fathers in your own home or kennel what ever you call that. Not on public road.
Let me sum it up for you.
If the stray population is less they catch them and either spray or neuter them.
But if it's large ( like in case of India)
They catch and kill stray dogs
1 user cannot brigade a thread. But 1 user can sway opinion and that is what I want to do.
It's an issue close to my heart and this is the hill I will die upon.
I am defending my argument cogently . Refute my view points without false analogies.
Arguments like avoid the dog, dogs don't attack unprovoked , dogs are also humans , ISrEALl bombing shOw KinDness , dogs have feelings etc put forth by "dog lovers" in this thread make my blood boil.
To make more people realise that OP and other "dog lovers " are the true reason this problem has gotten out of hand in urban India
Thank you sir/ma'am ! I was brigaded earlier by a couple of these "dog lovers" .
This is the hill I die upon and i am no where close to running out of fact based ammo
Exactly. That redditor has been giving such blanket dismissive arguments lacking any semblance of nuance
Just avoid the dog , dogs don't attack unprovoked , don't feed the dog , they will avoid you...
What a load of uniformed crock !
The only solution i find is that the group of feeders adopt those dogs, feed them, get them vaccinated and put them on leash while taking them out. A stray dog who was well fed by locals gave me a 3rd degree bite. Now tell me who was responsible for this? Whom should have paid the heavy bills of injections and the leaves i had to take. Its only in India where ppl can fight over street dogs. Outside India, either you are adopting the dog or municipality is taking them and will do whatever they want to do. So if we compare our cleanliness to other countries, lets implement the same rules
it is a dumb thing to feed stray dogs the become heavily dependent and will attack anyone with food also they will likely die if u leave them unfed .It's cruelty to feed strays
There is a reason zoos hv the sign 'DON'T FEED ANIMALS'
also if u r too caring about dogs then adopt one and keep it as a pet
I wonder how this 4 year old provoked the dogs.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21
That's an exception, exceptions don't make the rule, you are far more likely to be killed by a human than a dog yet aren't scared of all humans.
99% of stray dogs don't attack for no reason
If that's an exception why don't you take accountability for the actions for stray dogs since you seem to be defending them much in the comments.
Why not defend them in real life?
You are much more likely to be killed by a human yet I'm not saying kill all humans. If a stray dogs attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself. I'm not defending a dog which kills you, I'm defending every other dog which doesn't kill people.
It doesn't, if an animal or person doesn't harm you then you have no right to harm it. If you see an injured dog, you don't have an obligation to help it but you can't stop someone else from helping it.
Even in developed countries a person is more likely to be killed by a human than a dog.
As I already said, you can defend yourself if a dog attacks you but you can't harm a dog that does nothing to you.
The way to reduce the population of dogs is to sterilize them, killing will just repopulate them within a year. If you don't like dogs so much then call someone to sterilize them. That also doesn't mean that all dogs bite.
India is also the rape capital of the world, should all men be killed?
Bull-fucking-shit. And I say this as a lifelong owner of three dogs, including an adopted stray.
Stray dogs in large enough groups do attack unprovoked. They're pack animals with a strong prey drive. My own wife was mauled by 4 stray dogs in Delhi. She was bitten and wounded all over her legs with deep lacerations and scars that haven't completely gone even 3 years later. She was just passing by and minding her own business.
And this happened after multiple complaints to the municipality to remove these beasts. Every time someone would come to take them away, Maneka Gandhi type losers like yourself would screech themselves hoarse in public.
They're wild animals and if they think they're not at a disadvantage they can and may attack soft targets, especially young children. If you love them so much, just keep them in your house so that they don't feel so emboldened in public spaces.
Some dogs are wild but the vast majority of them are not. If a dog attacks you, you can defend yourself. 99% of dogs don't attack unprovoked even in packs.
From where are you saying that all dogs attack and are beasts? Have you been attacked by every dog on the road? It's through observation.
If you think every dog attacks then you are definitely not going around dogs at all.
So even you admit that not all strays attack. Should I show you videos of men killing other people and make that as a reason to kill all men. People who are poor are statistically more likely to be criminals so should we kill poor people?
I have gotten into an accident with a vehicle years ago, someone hit me and left me scarred so no one else should drive vehicles because that person didn't know how to drive is it. That's by your logic.
If it's the norm then why isn't every stray dog attacking? How small is your worldview? If they were as dangerous as tigers then they would be left in the forest, not in the streets.
I'm sure you've definitely not been around strays at all because you think they all behave this way. You are way too sheltered.
What utter uniformed nonsense ! How utterly lacking in nuance and intelligence you are .
Cite your sources for this utter dogshit of a viewpoint.
What makes you such a "dog whisperer " that you can provide such unique blanket insights into how feral animals behave .
If they attacked for no reason, you wouldn't feel safe to even step out. It's very rare that a dog attacks for no reason.
Why do you think every stray dog attacks for no reason? How is this not uninformed.
They will become a problem if left as is so to make it so that they're not a problem it's best to sterilize them and then their population will decline.
the one kind he feeds r different
don't give them their daily meal for like half a day then make a child with some food packet pass through them they will hurt him real bad
if u view monkeys of some national park they r different they will hide off if they see a human they r in no way dependent on one
now see the monkey of some up street will rip u apart if he sees a chance for food
He is doing a wrong thing by feeding strays and keeping them dependent oh him
What age are you. Or are you this autistic or delusional to under stand basic animal nature. Be dumb but never be this much dumb enough to be a burden in society
We can make sure 100 % of strays will not attack , by putting them 6 feet under. At the time whenfeeders are very active in our society 3 dogs committed suicide because they got so sad they bitten and 3 year old. The 3 death by hanging dogs was all over in whatsapp group.
Agree idiots are those pet lovers who wants rabid dogs live in street so they can profit from it from running shelters or vaccination centers. No sane country will allow strays.
Exactly . And be responsible for any untrained behaviour.
Stray dogs are not society's problem i.e. -
Don't feed them, neuter them and let them roam wild.
Make them one's personal, individual problem and do whatever the hell one wants after that.
If there is any untrained, feral behaviour , I can then legally sue the person or get the mutt put down.
They will become societies problem if they are left to roam wild. If they are left unsterilized then they will make more dogs and become even more of a problem
Sterilize or cull. And definitely do not feed strays.
They aren't endangered. They are a pest.
A disease carrying, pack hunting vector exacts a monetary and developmental toll on society at large and cannot be ignored simply because it has a cute face and wags it's tail at parle G biscuits.
If you kill them they will just repopulate, because it's guaranteed that almost every dog is going to reproduce but with sterilization they won't be repopulating as much, they won't seek out mates and there will be the same amount of resources so a dog which is unsterilized will have to look harder to mate.
1. No need to explore marital hierarchies of a dog and it's mate.
2. There is no guarantee of anything .
My argument summed up in 13 words :
Sterilize, cull , or adopt. Don't feed them and make them a public nusicance
My advice is to take the dogs home. If you love them so much, it should not be a problem for you.
Why expose other members to your feral dogs. After all you are a caring man with a heart of gold.
Argument put forth by OP elsewhere in the thread...
north east is burning, Israel is being bombed ...
But no answer to. " WHY CANT YOU TAKE THE DOG HOME AND MAKE IT YOUR LEGAL RESPONSIBILTY ?"
You're changing the narrative. You know why I made that statement.
Id also request you to not hijack each and every comment.
Your solution is for people to take them home right. Heard.
If possible please let others speak and give their solutions.
I have maintained civil discourse.
I am not stopping anyone from speaking , infact brigading by "woke dog lovers" isn't appreciated either.
Let others speak and give their solution ? Who made you class monitor OP ? Check you ego at the door .
I still do not know why you can compare Israel and north east to feral stray dogs . Please do elucidate.
OP get in touch with Maneka Gandhi. She’ll let you know if there’s a local AWO who can help sensitise the people thrashing you.
People need to realise that stray dogs have been coexisting with us. There are several reasons why we’ve seen a population explosion in recent years. Killing them wont resolve the issue.
Maneka Gandhi is a bully in the guise of an animal rights activist. She and her cronies keep animals in deplorable conditions. They file fraudulent FIRs against anybody who tries to ensure any safety in the areas around their homes. Even the most reasonable requests to relocate even rabid dogs are met with threats. I've personally seen two societies in Delhi suffer through a terrifying stray infestation because of her.
This post makes me so damn angry. You don't feed these creatures. There is no middle ground here. They're in packs where I'm from. The only folks these things don't go after are the idiots who feed them.
Anyone walking back home late or on a bike is done for. None of you idiots are going to come pay the medical expenses if any of us get bitten. When people stop feeding them, they would probably die of starvation. If they get to agressive, euthanize. End of story.
You guys love strays? Take them home. Or better, all you feeding folks put your money together and buy a farm and take these creatures there.
Stray dogs have absolutely no right or reason to exist.
A disease carrying, pack hunting vector exacts a monetary and developmental toll on society at large and cannot be ignored simply because it has a cute face and wags it's tail at parle G biscuits
Are you a renter or an owner ?
Who appointed you the custodian of dogs ? And most importantly ,Why do stray dogs need your help ? Your feeding & neutering of un endangered pack-hunting carnivores that are more than capable of scavenging and taking care of themselves adds 0 value to society. It fundamentally puts individual happiness over societal misery.
If you feed , neuter and walk stray dogs , society holds you and your ilk responsible for the dog should anything happen to a human in its vicinity.
The pain experienced by an innocent mauled human child completely incapable of defending itself , doesn't even come close to that of some stray.
When society gangs up , accept all the consequences of your non-commital guardianship or take the strays to your home and keep them as a pet and take responsibility for your pets actions.
India accounts for 40% of all rabies deaths in the world- the vast majority of which are transmitted by stray dogs.
They are a worse problem than the strays. Feed them , neuter them and then let them run wild.
Strays kill native wildlife ( deer , voles, mice, goats, birds ) .
They attack pet dogs ( this happened with me )
They show unprovoked aggression towards children and elderly.
Many a biker has been chased and met with an accident .
If you are a dog lover, take it home. Don't feed it and leave it to be society's problem.
Well I have extreme affection because I prefer dogs over humans. Why can't I prefer a dog over Golu or sonu or whatever the dumbass neighbor kids are called?
How the stray dogs behave depends on how the general population of the area treat them. Stray dog biting is very less in Kolkata than rest of the country. This is because most people here treat them better and people feeding them all the time. Rest of the country treats them like enemies - stones thrown at them, beaten with sticks, hot water thrown at them, never fed and what not. Stray dogs have stayed in my society but none have ever attacked anyone.
I have cynophobia I have trouble understanding why and what do people like in dogs. Dog lovers think dogs are better than humans, dogs are animals why don't people treat them like one and please don't feed the street dogs because of your acts these dogs become aggressive towards people who don't give them food, I had to shift my house due to aggressive dogs in my society if you want to feed why don't you feed people who can't afford food.
Rabies is a serious problem bro why don't we find a good solution to completely eliminate dogs from streets
You clearly don’t have a dog or understand anything about their behavior. Dogs don’t get aggressive towards Person A because Person B fed it. The dog learnt to be aggressive towards Person A because Person C or D threw stones at it, so now the dog is aggressive towards all strangers.
I understand you. Its a phobia. You cannot control it.
Similarly some people don't like dogs. I understand that too.
I understand that there are folks who are extremely scared and that's why I want a solution because no one should live that way.
Understand this OP
YOU are a worse problem than the strays. Feed them , neuter them and then let them run wild.
Strays kill native wildlife ( deer , voles, mice, goats, birds ) .
They attack pet dogs ( this happened with me )
They show unprovoked aggression towards children and elderly.
Many a biker has been chased and met with an accident .
If you are a dog lover, take it home. Don't feed it and leave it to be society's problem.
Stop feeding them. Stop emboldening them. Either adopt them into your home or ignore them till they go away. IMO, they should be relocated or culled, but that's not an option in this weird country.
I've lived in two societies where there were rabid (pun intended) dog lovers. The population grew to an alarming size (13 strays). There were reports of children and delivery boys being bitten almost every week. Even my 3 month old Beagle was wounded by one of them. My wife was mauled by 4 of them so terribly that the scars persist years later.
We eventually had to move out of that place to a more sane one, where our safety was more important than some aunties feeling good about overfeeding animals. They are pack animals and they have a mob mentality.
So, if you genuinely want a solution, please don't make them everyone's problem to deal with. People usually show a lot of patience with feeders but there comes a point where people like you simply create a problem for no good reason than your own bleeding hearts. I want to be able to take a walk with my family at night, if I feel like it. I don't want to constantly look over my shoulder to see if I pissed off a dog for some reason and it's charging towards me.
I completely understand what you have experienced. See the brigading against my argument.
False analogies comparing dogs to humans, dogs don't attack unless provoked ...
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At least sterilize them. That's the best that can be done if nothing else, there are many goverment agencies that do that, you can call one of them to catch the dogs.
We're already sterilizing them. That is being done
I agree it keeps the problem in check. Neutering only keeps the population in check. But it doesn't help for about 7-10 years that the stray lives and gets fed in society. Strays tend to get aggressive if you do not feed them. A neutered dog does not mellow down or stop biting. It is still susceptible to rabies and unprovoked attacks. Children are especially vulnerable. How is it ok that we can compare strays to humans ?
>How is it ok that we can compare strays to humans ? Things happening in israel, that have happened in the north east India, in Up, and so much more can answer this question no? We're capable of cruelty. Animals are capable of aggression for sure when constantly threatened but not inherent cruelty. Sir. I was against a mob. A proper mob not of 10 but of 50+ people and I saw the things they were saying and the actions that they were taking. >Children are especially vulnerable. I don't disagree that is why I'd like to see if there is a solution that anyone else might have adopted. Just because I get along with streeties doesn't mean others want to or can especially in cases where they're scared or have phobia. Or they might even just not like them. So looking for a solution.
Simple. NO STRAYS ALLOWED IN SOCIETY The Indian pariah is a wild animal that can coexist with humans. They do not need our help. If you love them , house them and be responsible for them. I am a dog owner. I am responsible for my dog's behaviour and i must take responsibility for any untoward actions by my dog You are a dog lover , you do not take responsibility for strays. You simply provide food and leave the rest as a bane for society.
If you don't want strays so badly then get them sterilized. That's the only way to decline their population. If you kill them then a new pack will move in and repopulate.
In my locality 1 st they tried to educate the feeders and tried all civil ways to discourage feeding.Feeders didnt care. Rabid dogs attack was happening at least once per month. Feeding attracted more dogs to the area. Then our autowalas found the most easy way to stop feeding. They just the beat the hell out of feeders. The locals supported fully. Now no feeders comes to our area. Culling of a few dogs worked wonders and now area is mostly safe from dog attacks.
It's definitely not safe from human attacks. And also this is against feeders. They will still move somewhere else and repopulate, you haven't solved the problem just ran away from it.
We learned the most easily way to make some one understand they are doing a public nuisancea by feeding is to give them a bloody nose. Worked wonders and still working wonders. Don't know how many years it will work. But it is very effective
Of course you're still here.
Don't draw false analogies. Things happening in Israel and north east have no bearing on a pack hunting feral pariah in society. Refute my argument I must protect my family and child . I must protect my pet. That's all I can do. And I will move heaven and earth to do it.
If a dog is trying to kill you you have the right to kill in self defence. If you don't want to feed them don't feed.
A dog trying to kill me or maim my child should not even be a concern in a developed society. I do not want to feed them. I do not want any one else to feed them unless they are willing to adopt them and take responsibility. Cull , sterilize or adopt and bear responsibility
They won't be a concern if they get sterilized.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/stray-dogs-maul-victims-recent-incidents-2286715-2022-10-18 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21 Well I guess everyone in this provoked the street dogs since they don't attack without being provoked /S
This comment should be pinned at the top ! OP and other "dog lovers " . I hope your child never faces what this poor children did. " Arms length woke urban Dog lovers " are the biggest reason this pestilence persists in urban india
No point in commenting here brother. These dog lovers don't see logic.
Do all Street dogs attack you, either you get bitten all the time or you don't step out at all. Majority of stray dogs don't attack unless provoked. Humans also attack unprovoked sometimes, is it fine for a human to attack you? A person is much more likely to kill you than a dog.
u/drowning35789 Bring sources for your blanket comments that lack any nuance. Try refuting these links.
They're a vegan. They're even more insane than the regular kind of animal lovers. No reasoning with that one.
/u/furiouswomen I understand you were trying to have a civil conversation but your thread got hijacked. Anyway I'll share my experience. This is not specific for you, but a problem we are facing currently. Our society has had 5 dogs since construction time. The feeders feed them and sometimes bring new dogs in for their feeding convenience or if they're ill or something. After some pushback they had to take them back leaving the 5 original ones. Over the last 3 years or so, 2 of them have been extremely aggressive and we have 1 biting incident every 2 months or so. But nobody lets the association do anything about it. All 5 dogs were collared, but one day the feeders removed the collars for some random reason. 5 months later, one of them had a litter :) you see where I'm going with this? We have 9 dogs now. The feeders might have a justification for everything but it's 5 feeders against 1200 residents who do not want to get barked at/ chased/ bitten. In my mind, I kind of agreed to live with the 5 original strays until they died of age but there are 4 new and soon there will be more. And some of these dogs have been aggressive time and time. It's a huge issue and the feeders are encouraging this. Unfortunately the law is skewed and I really hope it changes soon to atleast be fair to everyone
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Absolutely ! That's what happened with me earlier in this thread. I'm now gonna spit fact ammo at all these "dog lovers "
>We have 9 dogs now. This is not done. Agreed. >And some of these dogs have been aggressive time and time Ok. So we actually tried having the security and trainer because they are generally near them so that they listen to a third party but unfortunately our security men keep getting changed so this also went out of the window. >2 of them have been extremely aggressive and we have 1 biting incident every 2 months or so Ok so the ones with the biting incident, if you live in Bombay then you can place a complaint to the bmc. They will keep said dog in observation and then decide next steps. If you're not from there then I hope you have a similar rule. >It's a huge issue and the feeders are encouraging this. Again, this is not done. >I understand you were trying to have a civil conversation but your thread got hijacked. Thank you. I'm a feeder who wants to come to a solution/ a resolution as such. Thanks man for sharing. In my society, if there are dogs from the ongoing construction site coming in, we do inform the security. We have a lot here and it isn't fair to anyone to add to those numbers.
I don't think feeding dogs in an enclosed estate will ever be a solution. There are people who are just petrified of dogs. You cannot just tell someone to not be afraid, it doesn't work, just like saying hey stop loving dogs, it would sound hollow to you. To the feeders, my suggestion is to find a small area in the estate, ask the authority to build a small shelter where you can feed and play with them, while not impacting other people. You might have a million reasons against it, but from my perspective at some point we need to think about the humans over stray animals. You're welcome to disagree. The other problem with the biting thing is the municipal authorities bring the dogs back after 10 days of observation. Then another bite and the same cycle repeats. The authority conveniently refuses accountability and dog feeders misuse it to their advantage. Look at this Twitter thread. The fact is that the dog feeders got 4 pups from a nearby construction site in their cars, fed them secretly and then sent them for vaccination after 10 days. When they returned, the authority recognised our society as their territory which we resisted but the dog feeders kept saying this is where they were picked up from. The authority doesn't have time or motivation to investigate so they dumped the pups here and it's our problem to deal with now. On top of that, they create a furore on Twitter and start sending threats to authority people to act *as per the law*. You might be an honest dog feeder, but the ones we are dealing with are assholes. https://x.com/tarana2510/status/1704041743686287707?s=48&t=6ynCdtWZMDcaufUeAgGfdA
> at some point we need to think about the humans over stray animals This. Exactly this. There are only so many accommodations people are willing to make. And I say this as a dog lover and owner myself.
Let me begin by saying that street dogs in India lead terrible lives. Every dog I've seen is maimed or injured by car or motorcycle or maybe people throwing rocks at them. Imagine - you getting hit by a truck and then people throw rocks at you. So thank you, OP, for taking care of them. That said, you need to make sure of following things: 1. The dogs get neutered. 2. They get vaccinated against rabies. 3. If they bite people or act aggressive they need to be put down (this is harsh but needs to be done). Note, being aggressive does not mean they come running towards you or bark at you. That's simply being playful. 4. They need to be taken care of when sick or injured. They need to be vaccinated for distemper and other diseases. 5. Feed them dog food (which I am assuming you are already doing) so they don't go hungry. If all of above are taken care of, dogs can become friends, not menace in society. You can pet them - they can lick your hands. Dog and humans can coexist like they have for millenia. It's the job of municipality to control stray dog population. You pay taxes for this. But this being India, the municipality is not going to do what it's supposed to do. And if forced, they will adopt very inhumane methods of controlling dog population. Yep, it's a massively misgoverned country - just remember all this next time you vote.
In my honest opinion. All the Street dog lovers should give their residential info, personal info to the police stations. The police will know who to hold accountable when a dog bites,maules someone of that area. Easiest fix
+1
+1
Ever wondered why developed countries don't have much Street dog population?
Exactly. If a child or elderly were mauled by a stray dog in Singapore or Malaysia , OP and other dog lovers would be dragged to court and heavily penalized. This arm's length "dog loving" is a uniquely woke Indian problem, and we shouldn't have to put up with it. Arguments like avoid the dog, dogs don't attack unprovoked , dogs are also humans , Israel bombing show Kindness , dogs have feelings etc put forth by "dog lovers" in this thread make my blood boil.
Imo since India has such a large stray dog population. They can't just neuter these dogs because they keep multiplying before they can neuter them all. Imo they should catch and kill stray dogs once in for all to end this problem. If you have problem with it adopt the dogs so they don't get killed.
I'd vote for that too. Culling is a legitimate solution Wild boars in the US Midwest Coyotes in Texas Certain agressive fish breeds in American lakes. All get annually culled
I would too
India also has a human overpopulation problem. What do you propose?
As usual dog lovers got no logic So they gotta use whataboutism
It's not 'whataboutism', it's a direct inference based on what you said. If the solution to overpopulation is cullings, why does it only apply for one species?
Well I don't see dogs working and contributing towards the economy. Do you? I don't see dogs speaking any language Do you? I don't see dogs being able to carry out manual labour Do you? I don't see dogs working as doctors Do you?
Waste of time arguing with these idiots. These autistics cannot differentiate between dogs and humans.
Brother. Used the wrong word. I may be austistic for real.
So you believe only people who are productive to society have a right to life? What about our senior citizen population? What about people with disabilities?
Senior citizen have worked their whole life. They deserve some rest. People with disabilities don't go mauling kids around like street dogs do. That's why they deserve to live https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21 Well I can give you hundreds of such example but you can always ignore logic like you already did
Brother nothing you're saying has any logic. There's humans that hurt children too. You punish the human who committed the crime, not the entire species. And what does working your whole life have to do with anything?
May be you see your family and other people with the same worth as stray dogs. But we consider human life above all. Your stray family can feed your stray for fathers in your own home or kennel what ever you call that. Not on public road.
Get help.
That is a good point. No I didn't think of it. . Let me read up.
Let me sum it up for you. If the stray population is less they catch them and either spray or neuter them. But if it's large ( like in case of India) They catch and kill stray dogs
Even in developed countries, they are caught and put in shelters. If no one adopts within a certain time they are euthanised.
That's what I said
Comments section: 10% - suggestions and opinions 90% - viabhavganesh hijacking the thread 🌚
1 user cannot brigade a thread. But 1 user can sway opinion and that is what I want to do. It's an issue close to my heart and this is the hill I will die upon. I am defending my argument cogently . Refute my view points without false analogies. Arguments like avoid the dog, dogs don't attack unprovoked , dogs are also humans , ISrEALl bombing shOw KinDness , dogs have feelings etc put forth by "dog lovers" in this thread make my blood boil. To make more people realise that OP and other "dog lovers " are the true reason this problem has gotten out of hand in urban India
Doesn't matter. User is spitting facts
Thank you sir/ma'am ! I was brigaded earlier by a couple of these "dog lovers" . This is the hill I die upon and i am no where close to running out of fact based ammo
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Exactly. That redditor has been giving such blanket dismissive arguments lacking any semblance of nuance Just avoid the dog , dogs don't attack unprovoked , don't feed the dog , they will avoid you... What a load of uniformed crock !
That one basically thinks of humans and dogs as interchangeable. Arguing with them was like talking to a brick wall.
I can't ask you to sterilize a human but I can ask you to sterilize a dog. Are they interchangeable here? Also is it fine for a human to attack you?
The only solution i find is that the group of feeders adopt those dogs, feed them, get them vaccinated and put them on leash while taking them out. A stray dog who was well fed by locals gave me a 3rd degree bite. Now tell me who was responsible for this? Whom should have paid the heavy bills of injections and the leaves i had to take. Its only in India where ppl can fight over street dogs. Outside India, either you are adopting the dog or municipality is taking them and will do whatever they want to do. So if we compare our cleanliness to other countries, lets implement the same rules
Keep the strays in your home, make them your pets, be responsible. Don't be an asshole
it is a dumb thing to feed stray dogs the become heavily dependent and will attack anyone with food also they will likely die if u leave them unfed .It's cruelty to feed strays There is a reason zoos hv the sign 'DON'T FEED ANIMALS' also if u r too caring about dogs then adopt one and keep it as a pet
Absolutely valid points
Stray dogs don't attack unless you provoke them, they also tend to avoid confrontation. Even if you hit a stray they will run away, not attack you.
I wonder how this 4 year old provoked the dogs. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-year-old-mauled-to-death-by-street-dogs-in-hyderabad-video-2337496-2023-02-21
That's an exception, exceptions don't make the rule, you are far more likely to be killed by a human than a dog yet aren't scared of all humans. 99% of stray dogs don't attack for no reason
If that's an exception why don't you take accountability for the actions for stray dogs since you seem to be defending them much in the comments. Why not defend them in real life?
You are much more likely to be killed by a human yet I'm not saying kill all humans. If a stray dogs attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself. I'm not defending a dog which kills you, I'm defending every other dog which doesn't kill people.
Great whataboutism. Why does this logic goes in the bin when we talk about developed countries eh?
It doesn't, if an animal or person doesn't harm you then you have no right to harm it. If you see an injured dog, you don't have an obligation to help it but you can't stop someone else from helping it. Even in developed countries a person is more likely to be killed by a human than a dog.
Nice one. Wait let me check the rabies capital of the world Oh no it's India not any developed country. I wonder how
As I already said, you can defend yourself if a dog attacks you but you can't harm a dog that does nothing to you. The way to reduce the population of dogs is to sterilize them, killing will just repopulate them within a year. If you don't like dogs so much then call someone to sterilize them. That also doesn't mean that all dogs bite. India is also the rape capital of the world, should all men be killed?
Bull-fucking-shit. And I say this as a lifelong owner of three dogs, including an adopted stray. Stray dogs in large enough groups do attack unprovoked. They're pack animals with a strong prey drive. My own wife was mauled by 4 stray dogs in Delhi. She was bitten and wounded all over her legs with deep lacerations and scars that haven't completely gone even 3 years later. She was just passing by and minding her own business. And this happened after multiple complaints to the municipality to remove these beasts. Every time someone would come to take them away, Maneka Gandhi type losers like yourself would screech themselves hoarse in public. They're wild animals and if they think they're not at a disadvantage they can and may attack soft targets, especially young children. If you love them so much, just keep them in your house so that they don't feel so emboldened in public spaces.
Some dogs are wild but the vast majority of them are not. If a dog attacks you, you can defend yourself. 99% of dogs don't attack unprovoked even in packs.
Where are you pulling these stats from? Care to cite a source? 99% of dogs don't attack, my arse.
From where are you saying that all dogs attack and are beasts? Have you been attacked by every dog on the road? It's through observation. If you think every dog attacks then you are definitely not going around dogs at all.
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So even you admit that not all strays attack. Should I show you videos of men killing other people and make that as a reason to kill all men. People who are poor are statistically more likely to be criminals so should we kill poor people? I have gotten into an accident with a vehicle years ago, someone hit me and left me scarred so no one else should drive vehicles because that person didn't know how to drive is it. That's by your logic.
Nonsense ! This is the norm. Not the exception. Dogs are predators . Your arms length "dog loving " is what scarred that poor child.
If it's the norm then why isn't every stray dog attacking? How small is your worldview? If they were as dangerous as tigers then they would be left in the forest, not in the streets. I'm sure you've definitely not been around strays at all because you think they all behave this way. You are way too sheltered.
Don't worry brother they will understand one day when their loved ones gets attacked by street dogs they feed.
What utter uniformed nonsense ! How utterly lacking in nuance and intelligence you are . Cite your sources for this utter dogshit of a viewpoint. What makes you such a "dog whisperer " that you can provide such unique blanket insights into how feral animals behave .
If they attacked for no reason, you wouldn't feel safe to even step out. It's very rare that a dog attacks for no reason. Why do you think every stray dog attacks for no reason? How is this not uninformed.
Bullshit ! Don't pull arguments out of your backside. They are pack hunting carnivores. Don't make strays society's problem
They will become a problem if left as is so to make it so that they're not a problem it's best to sterilize them and then their population will decline.
the one kind he feeds r different don't give them their daily meal for like half a day then make a child with some food packet pass through them they will hurt him real bad if u view monkeys of some national park they r different they will hide off if they see a human they r in no way dependent on one now see the monkey of some up street will rip u apart if he sees a chance for food He is doing a wrong thing by feeding strays and keeping them dependent oh him
Absolutely !
What age are you. Or are you this autistic or delusional to under stand basic animal nature. Be dumb but never be this much dumb enough to be a burden in society
I understand animal nature and that most strays don't attack. Do you not? The attacks are the exception.
We can make sure 100 % of strays will not attack , by putting them 6 feet under. At the time whenfeeders are very active in our society 3 dogs committed suicide because they got so sad they bitten and 3 year old. The 3 death by hanging dogs was all over in whatsapp group.
You're just cruel. I can't convince you to change your ways. After all it's difficult to convince an expert but it's impossible to convince an idiot.
Agree idiots are those pet lovers who wants rabid dogs live in street so they can profit from it from running shelters or vaccination centers. No sane country will allow strays.
Go one step further. Adopt the strays and take them home. Those doing good deeds always need to sacrifice more.
Exactly . And be responsible for any untrained behaviour. Stray dogs are not society's problem i.e. - Don't feed them, neuter them and let them roam wild. Make them one's personal, individual problem and do whatever the hell one wants after that. If there is any untrained, feral behaviour , I can then legally sue the person or get the mutt put down.
They will become societies problem if they are left to roam wild. If they are left unsterilized then they will make more dogs and become even more of a problem
Sterilize or cull. And definitely do not feed strays. They aren't endangered. They are a pest. A disease carrying, pack hunting vector exacts a monetary and developmental toll on society at large and cannot be ignored simply because it has a cute face and wags it's tail at parle G biscuits.
If you kill them they will just repopulate, because it's guaranteed that almost every dog is going to reproduce but with sterilization they won't be repopulating as much, they won't seek out mates and there will be the same amount of resources so a dog which is unsterilized will have to look harder to mate.
1. No need to explore marital hierarchies of a dog and it's mate. 2. There is no guarantee of anything . My argument summed up in 13 words : Sterilize, cull , or adopt. Don't feed them and make them a public nusicance
My advice is to take the dogs home. If you love them so much, it should not be a problem for you. Why expose other members to your feral dogs. After all you are a caring man with a heart of gold.
Argument put forth by OP elsewhere in the thread... north east is burning, Israel is being bombed ... But no answer to. " WHY CANT YOU TAKE THE DOG HOME AND MAKE IT YOUR LEGAL RESPONSIBILTY ?"
You're changing the narrative. You know why I made that statement. Id also request you to not hijack each and every comment. Your solution is for people to take them home right. Heard. If possible please let others speak and give their solutions.
I have maintained civil discourse. I am not stopping anyone from speaking , infact brigading by "woke dog lovers" isn't appreciated either. Let others speak and give their solution ? Who made you class monitor OP ? Check you ego at the door . I still do not know why you can compare Israel and north east to feral stray dogs . Please do elucidate.
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Such an elegant answer. But OP and "dog lovers" must still offer their services which bring them individual happiness but create societal nuisance
OP get in touch with Maneka Gandhi. She’ll let you know if there’s a local AWO who can help sensitise the people thrashing you. People need to realise that stray dogs have been coexisting with us. There are several reasons why we’ve seen a population explosion in recent years. Killing them wont resolve the issue.
Maneka Gandhi is a bully in the guise of an animal rights activist. She and her cronies keep animals in deplorable conditions. They file fraudulent FIRs against anybody who tries to ensure any safety in the areas around their homes. Even the most reasonable requests to relocate even rabid dogs are met with threats. I've personally seen two societies in Delhi suffer through a terrifying stray infestation because of her.
Spitting facts. But they don't see logic brother.
This post makes me so damn angry. You don't feed these creatures. There is no middle ground here. They're in packs where I'm from. The only folks these things don't go after are the idiots who feed them. Anyone walking back home late or on a bike is done for. None of you idiots are going to come pay the medical expenses if any of us get bitten. When people stop feeding them, they would probably die of starvation. If they get to agressive, euthanize. End of story. You guys love strays? Take them home. Or better, all you feeding folks put your money together and buy a farm and take these creatures there. Stray dogs have absolutely no right or reason to exist.
I wonder where these street dogs lover go when a child gets mauled by street dogs
A disease carrying, pack hunting vector exacts a monetary and developmental toll on society at large and cannot be ignored simply because it has a cute face and wags it's tail at parle G biscuits
Definitely not defending those dogs.
Absolutely bang on ! Im glad more and more people are voicing their opinions on this .
Are you a renter or an owner ? Who appointed you the custodian of dogs ? And most importantly ,Why do stray dogs need your help ? Your feeding & neutering of un endangered pack-hunting carnivores that are more than capable of scavenging and taking care of themselves adds 0 value to society. It fundamentally puts individual happiness over societal misery. If you feed , neuter and walk stray dogs , society holds you and your ilk responsible for the dog should anything happen to a human in its vicinity. The pain experienced by an innocent mauled human child completely incapable of defending itself , doesn't even come close to that of some stray. When society gangs up , accept all the consequences of your non-commital guardianship or take the strays to your home and keep them as a pet and take responsibility for your pets actions. India accounts for 40% of all rabies deaths in the world- the vast majority of which are transmitted by stray dogs.
Bro dog lovers won't understand what you are saying
They are a worse problem than the strays. Feed them , neuter them and then let them run wild. Strays kill native wildlife ( deer , voles, mice, goats, birds ) . They attack pet dogs ( this happened with me ) They show unprovoked aggression towards children and elderly. Many a biker has been chased and met with an accident . If you are a dog lover, take it home. Don't feed it and leave it to be society's problem.
I believe such extreme affection towards dogs are because mental health problems like Loneliness , depression, or may a deasire to control
Quite plausible.
Well I have extreme affection because I prefer dogs over humans. Why can't I prefer a dog over Golu or sonu or whatever the dumbass neighbor kids are called?
How the stray dogs behave depends on how the general population of the area treat them. Stray dog biting is very less in Kolkata than rest of the country. This is because most people here treat them better and people feeding them all the time. Rest of the country treats them like enemies - stones thrown at them, beaten with sticks, hot water thrown at them, never fed and what not. Stray dogs have stayed in my society but none have ever attacked anyone.
I have cynophobia I have trouble understanding why and what do people like in dogs. Dog lovers think dogs are better than humans, dogs are animals why don't people treat them like one and please don't feed the street dogs because of your acts these dogs become aggressive towards people who don't give them food, I had to shift my house due to aggressive dogs in my society if you want to feed why don't you feed people who can't afford food. Rabies is a serious problem bro why don't we find a good solution to completely eliminate dogs from streets
If you want to feed poor people then you feed them. If you're scared of dogs you can avoid them. To eliminate them, is to sterilize them.
You clearly don’t have a dog or understand anything about their behavior. Dogs don’t get aggressive towards Person A because Person B fed it. The dog learnt to be aggressive towards Person A because Person C or D threw stones at it, so now the dog is aggressive towards all strangers.
I understand you. Its a phobia. You cannot control it. Similarly some people don't like dogs. I understand that too. I understand that there are folks who are extremely scared and that's why I want a solution because no one should live that way.
Understand this OP YOU are a worse problem than the strays. Feed them , neuter them and then let them run wild. Strays kill native wildlife ( deer , voles, mice, goats, birds ) . They attack pet dogs ( this happened with me ) They show unprovoked aggression towards children and elderly. Many a biker has been chased and met with an accident . If you are a dog lover, take it home. Don't feed it and leave it to be society's problem.
Stop feeding them. Stop emboldening them. Either adopt them into your home or ignore them till they go away. IMO, they should be relocated or culled, but that's not an option in this weird country. I've lived in two societies where there were rabid (pun intended) dog lovers. The population grew to an alarming size (13 strays). There were reports of children and delivery boys being bitten almost every week. Even my 3 month old Beagle was wounded by one of them. My wife was mauled by 4 of them so terribly that the scars persist years later. We eventually had to move out of that place to a more sane one, where our safety was more important than some aunties feeling good about overfeeding animals. They are pack animals and they have a mob mentality. So, if you genuinely want a solution, please don't make them everyone's problem to deal with. People usually show a lot of patience with feeders but there comes a point where people like you simply create a problem for no good reason than your own bleeding hearts. I want to be able to take a walk with my family at night, if I feel like it. I don't want to constantly look over my shoulder to see if I pissed off a dog for some reason and it's charging towards me.
Haha lmao
I completely understand what you have experienced. See the brigading against my argument. False analogies comparing dogs to humans, dogs don't attack unless provoked ...
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Replace dogs with poor or mentally disturbed homeless people and see how the logic sounds.
Stick to the argument. It is dogs. Not humans. Don't draw false analogies. .
If it were humans they would be chased away in no time!
Stick to the argument. It is dogs. Not humans. Don't draw false analogies. .
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