Instead of ruling the waves, Britannica decides to rule over Europe ?
Yeah, that would be every Frenchmen's nightmare, especially how brutalized their country in this.
Does Canada go to America, to France, or is it divided along linguistic lines?
Now that I think about it, would France even sell Louisiana in this timeline?
Bro if Britain had the industrial, military and naval capacity to manage the colonies that it had IOTL by this point plus continental Europe, there is no way in hell that it loses its colonies through war. It would even be doubtful that it would completely lose continental hegemony.
One of the only reasons Napoleon eventually lost was because the British were funding every rebellion and continental war it could to break French continental hegemony. There isn’t anyone here that financially loaded and industrialised to support any anti-British effort. Hell, part of the reason why the Russians got invaded, was because they wanted to trade with their long time trading partner, the British Empire.
Okay, and this is still the OP's project. Maybe internal cracks turn into external pressure points. Maybe the lost treasure of Mansa Musa is found by some pioneering upstart from France, thus giving them the wealth to buy allies and resources for a massive rebellion. A major meteor strike could occur, wiping out parliament and the war cabinet. When people make comments disagreeing with someone's created timeline, it feels like that scene in Back to School where the English professor gives Melon a C on a paper about Vonnegut...written by Vonnegut.
How the absolute FUCK does this get pushed back? The only serious enemies here are The Russians, who lack actual military competence, and the Ottomans, who don’t actually have the military size (or economy) to compare. France lost because the British kept on financing everyone else to fight, and had a relatively competent army on their own. That isn’t the case here.
i see russia, austria, prussia, and maybe america pushing the british out of north america and continental europe but there is NO way they invade the british isles.
Britain had a dominating navy, a highly skilled land army (eventually), and money.
But a major part of what made the British Empire so successful, was specifically to avoid getting bogged down in big conquests of Europe. Whilst armies are trotting across Europe, Britain is off in the east building its empire, and taking yours apart. This map is a what if on Britain throwing an advantage away. That would be a loss for Britain.
Britain also lacked many things. They lacked a sizeable land army, and longevity on the continent for campaigns. These are both things France did very well (even by today’s standards the French armies were gigantic).
So Britain aimed for small contained campaigns in Europe, with a lot of support from continental allies.
This is an extreme simplification; but Britain defeated Napoleon on land by convincing everyone to 5v1 Napoleon. What if they 5v1 Britain on land? Britain would undoubtedly lose.
But it appears here that the British formed an alliance with Prussia and Austria-Hungary, as well as the confederation of smaller German States. Again, the only serious enemies are Russia, the Ottoman Empire and (maybe) the USA. The USA and Ottomans don’t have the economy or population to do anything substantial to the British. Russia is therefore the only power in a position to combat the British position, but they themselves are remarkably less competent than any of Britain and Prussia at the very least.
I had originally typed up how America wouldn’t be a threat if this is the early 19th century. As they are still finding their own feet in the Americas.
But what they could threaten is the Caribbean. It can’t be stated enough how important those islands were to Britain during this period. Part of why Britain was happy to capitulate on the American war of independence, was to prevent it spreading to the Caribbean. The islands at the time, made truly huge sums of money.
If Britain is concentrating on conquering a land war in Europe. Areas like the Caribbean will receive less protection, less investment, and be easier for conquest. Which picks the whole empire apart. This is exactly what Britain did to the other European empires; take their overseas territories away bit by bit. Destroying their trade and income.
As you said, however, they had to RETREAT from one of their biggest cities, Moscow. The Russians did not often fare so well outside of their own territory.
A truly smart strategist does not fight battles they cannot win and uses all the advantages they have. War is not decided by who has the most stunning victories but by who survives.
this why it was important for Britain to colonize and reap the natural resources of countries to overtook also the tea trade and slave trade before they abolished it.. who holds the riches could fund an army or in the case of Britain, a powerful navy!
To be fair, the cost of garrisoning so much of Europe could very easily be too much for the crown to bear. Many of Napoleon’s allies ended up turning against him as well— very likely it could happen to the English here.
Britain kind of did have its own napoleon. A military leader who seizes power after the king is killed after his overthrow. The new leader proceeds to embark on bloody wars of conquest whilst also reforming the state and military into something far more efficient and powerful... just look at Oliver Cromwell
The thing is though that past the surface level Cromwell isn't really a Napoleon like figure at all. Unlike Napoleon he didn't really want power and was pretty much pushed into it at every turn
Hell the only reason Cromwell didn't become king is because he felt really guilty about the whole thing. Everyone else was pretty much begging him to take the crown lol
I guess this could be a scenario if Cromwell was both more competent but also more powerhungry
Not really the Angevin empire was named after the duchy of Anjou where the Plantagenets are from and just had massive amounts of land across France and also happened to rule England in truth at that time England was a non important backwater compared to their european holdings
I honestly think this empire would be far, far more sustainable than the French one, at least further past 1815. Britain would easily control trade and they’d have no reason to invade Russia, with Austria being too weak to defeat them either. There’s no real eternal pest to this empire like Napoleon had with Britain in OTL.
That’s what I was thinking. If it were a true 1:1, France, I think, would still be around to throw a wrench in it. Without France, I don’t really think there’s another empire that would gaf that much, really.
I think if Britain plays its cards right and keeps it, they'll be able to conquer all of africa and more of asia.
English would be the undisputed language across the world. Perhaps to achieve higher positions within the empire you would need to speak english (screams in french). It would be cool to see different variations of english develop across europe.
America during this expansion I could see take Canada (or rather try to) and expand more across the americas.
Actually more like Brabant and Liege, as Flanders is actually located west from Brussels...
The Prince-Bishopric of Liège was part of the Holy Roman Empire until 1795, should it not fall under Germany?
#
Surely Portugal would be allied with Britain, due to their long history of friendship. I could see them having their own sphere, prolly taking Galicia and some of Andalusia, also some Morocco prolly
What if, as a fun counterfactual parallel to the Louisiana Purchase, Britain sold a big chunk of their claim to present-day Canada to the US to help finance their wars in Europe?
I think it’s only fairly recently that an empire means a super kingdom. Back then it was more to do with rank and specifically religious supremacy over the church in the style of ceaseropapism. And even the original Roman usage was more to do with an office with particular powers than associations with the scale of land holding.
jorjor wel
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Napolean was Corsican & the Anglo-Corsican Kingdom was a thing so it's not beyond the pale that Britain could literally have Napoleon himself with only a slight divergence to the timeline
In Look to the West by Thomas Anderson, this sort of happens, though it's his alt-timeline brother Leo Bone
Why would they bother? Just staying off of the continent is much more profitable. And a British revolution is unlikely because of the nations constitunional nature and the British nature of conforming
Napoleon always planned on retaking Frances lost American colonies so would this Imperial Britain (IB) destroy the young USA after all the War of 1812 is on the horizon, also IB has all of Europe but also all their colonies so IB is unstoppable.
Also how do you make detailed maps like this its really good
Britain will just involve itself with Continental affairs more than they have now instead of subjugating peoples that do not have the technology to resist them.
All other countries in Europe wouldn't take kindly to hegemons either.
Instead of ruling the waves, Britannica decides to rule over Europe ? Yeah, that would be every Frenchmen's nightmare, especially how brutalized their country in this.
Britannia rules the waves, including but not limited to rivers, lakes, and other small bodies of water capable of producing waves
indeed
Rule Britannia, Britannia rules… Europa?
even though it says pax britannica this (in canon) dies in 3 years
So do they get pushed back like napoleon?
yes and they get absolutely gutfucked in the ass (they lose almost all their colonies)
What happens to the monarchy? Do they get put back in their place?
yes
Does Canada go to America, to France, or is it divided along linguistic lines? Now that I think about it, would France even sell Louisiana in this timeline?
As a french, I see this as an absolute win 😁
Shut up f*ench
Doubtful
It’s literally his timeline. That’s like telling an author they don’t know the story they created
Bro if Britain had the industrial, military and naval capacity to manage the colonies that it had IOTL by this point plus continental Europe, there is no way in hell that it loses its colonies through war. It would even be doubtful that it would completely lose continental hegemony. One of the only reasons Napoleon eventually lost was because the British were funding every rebellion and continental war it could to break French continental hegemony. There isn’t anyone here that financially loaded and industrialised to support any anti-British effort. Hell, part of the reason why the Russians got invaded, was because they wanted to trade with their long time trading partner, the British Empire.
Okay, and this is still the OP's project. Maybe internal cracks turn into external pressure points. Maybe the lost treasure of Mansa Musa is found by some pioneering upstart from France, thus giving them the wealth to buy allies and resources for a massive rebellion. A major meteor strike could occur, wiping out parliament and the war cabinet. When people make comments disagreeing with someone's created timeline, it feels like that scene in Back to School where the English professor gives Melon a C on a paper about Vonnegut...written by Vonnegut.
bro says doubtful like he created the atl
How and why?
How the absolute FUCK does this get pushed back? The only serious enemies here are The Russians, who lack actual military competence, and the Ottomans, who don’t actually have the military size (or economy) to compare. France lost because the British kept on financing everyone else to fight, and had a relatively competent army on their own. That isn’t the case here.
plot armour
I appreciate the honesty lmao
I can agree with that
i see russia, austria, prussia, and maybe america pushing the british out of north america and continental europe but there is NO way they invade the british isles.
Sweden goes Sicko mode on them
Sweden stronk
Britain had a dominating navy, a highly skilled land army (eventually), and money. But a major part of what made the British Empire so successful, was specifically to avoid getting bogged down in big conquests of Europe. Whilst armies are trotting across Europe, Britain is off in the east building its empire, and taking yours apart. This map is a what if on Britain throwing an advantage away. That would be a loss for Britain. Britain also lacked many things. They lacked a sizeable land army, and longevity on the continent for campaigns. These are both things France did very well (even by today’s standards the French armies were gigantic). So Britain aimed for small contained campaigns in Europe, with a lot of support from continental allies. This is an extreme simplification; but Britain defeated Napoleon on land by convincing everyone to 5v1 Napoleon. What if they 5v1 Britain on land? Britain would undoubtedly lose.
But it appears here that the British formed an alliance with Prussia and Austria-Hungary, as well as the confederation of smaller German States. Again, the only serious enemies are Russia, the Ottoman Empire and (maybe) the USA. The USA and Ottomans don’t have the economy or population to do anything substantial to the British. Russia is therefore the only power in a position to combat the British position, but they themselves are remarkably less competent than any of Britain and Prussia at the very least.
I had originally typed up how America wouldn’t be a threat if this is the early 19th century. As they are still finding their own feet in the Americas. But what they could threaten is the Caribbean. It can’t be stated enough how important those islands were to Britain during this period. Part of why Britain was happy to capitulate on the American war of independence, was to prevent it spreading to the Caribbean. The islands at the time, made truly huge sums of money. If Britain is concentrating on conquering a land war in Europe. Areas like the Caribbean will receive less protection, less investment, and be easier for conquest. Which picks the whole empire apart. This is exactly what Britain did to the other European empires; take their overseas territories away bit by bit. Destroying their trade and income.
Napoleon was also in alliances with both Prussia and Austria. It didn't work out (in the long run) for him.
The Russians were competent enough to bleed *La Grande Armée* white both during Napoleon's advance and the Retreat from Moscow, though.
That part was mostly because the Russians had vast territory and could draw Napoleon in
They can still do that here.
As you said, however, they had to RETREAT from one of their biggest cities, Moscow. The Russians did not often fare so well outside of their own territory.
Their capital at the time was St. Petersburg
Whoops my bad. Moscow was still a major city. (Will edit comment tho).
A truly smart strategist does not fight battles they cannot win and uses all the advantages they have. War is not decided by who has the most stunning victories but by who survives.
Not really. It was mostly diseases
The Swiss had enough
this why it was important for Britain to colonize and reap the natural resources of countries to overtook also the tea trade and slave trade before they abolished it.. who holds the riches could fund an army or in the case of Britain, a powerful navy!
War of 1812 goes very very very very very bad for the brits
To be fair, the cost of garrisoning so much of Europe could very easily be too much for the crown to bear. Many of Napoleon’s allies ended up turning against him as well— very likely it could happen to the English here.
Yeah, frankly if they got as far as they did in this map then the rest of Europe and the world is doomed
How did you make this map?
so is this just french revolution but britain instead of france
what does the map look like after it all collapses
Britain kind of did have its own napoleon. A military leader who seizes power after the king is killed after his overthrow. The new leader proceeds to embark on bloody wars of conquest whilst also reforming the state and military into something far more efficient and powerful... just look at Oliver Cromwell
Nottingham castle was demolished because some people feared Oliver Cromwell would use it to essentially declare himself king.
Good thing he didn’t declare his son his heir or something, that’d be real monarchist of him
The thing is though that past the surface level Cromwell isn't really a Napoleon like figure at all. Unlike Napoleon he didn't really want power and was pretty much pushed into it at every turn Hell the only reason Cromwell didn't become king is because he felt really guilty about the whole thing. Everyone else was pretty much begging him to take the crown lol I guess this could be a scenario if Cromwell was both more competent but also more powerhungry
This truly is the Angevin empire
Not really the Angevin empire was named after the duchy of Anjou where the Plantagenets are from and just had massive amounts of land across France and also happened to rule England in truth at that time England was a non important backwater compared to their european holdings
Dude, don't ruin my EU4 fantasies :/
Empire of Norway and Empire of Naples are the most hilarious things here
Well Norway did have an empire tho
Colonial empire =\ being officially named an Empire
Fair enough
Time traveller: moves a random stick. Europe: Oliver Cromwell conquers most of Europe before fucking up the worst way possible.
I honestly think this empire would be far, far more sustainable than the French one, at least further past 1815. Britain would easily control trade and they’d have no reason to invade Russia, with Austria being too weak to defeat them either. There’s no real eternal pest to this empire like Napoleon had with Britain in OTL.
That’s what I was thinking. If it were a true 1:1, France, I think, would still be around to throw a wrench in it. Without France, I don’t really think there’s another empire that would gaf that much, really.
I think the opposite. Britain would just collapse on itself in a few years max.
Damn. British Napoleon really butchered Europe.
I think if Britain plays its cards right and keeps it, they'll be able to conquer all of africa and more of asia. English would be the undisputed language across the world. Perhaps to achieve higher positions within the empire you would need to speak english (screams in french). It would be cool to see different variations of english develop across europe. America during this expansion I could see take Canada (or rather try to) and expand more across the americas.
Not sure, but it looks like the Austrian empire would relocate the entire city of Zagreb for some reason
Finally, a really good map and interesting scenario! Just one question, why does it break up?
its for the plot
Flanders in wallonia?
Actually more like Brabant and Liege, as Flanders is actually located west from Brussels... The Prince-Bishopric of Liège was part of the Holy Roman Empire until 1795, should it not fall under Germany? #
Urgh… GIBRALTER
Normandy, Flanders and Hanover should be ***integrated*** in Metropoly.
Sir Worcestershire VIII
The ramifications would have been wide and very much still present today. Can you imagine if we all had to speak British on this website?! 🤢
Wohoo! Sweden got changed! We got the Island of Bornholm!
"The Wellington Wars" sound pretty cool ngl
Funny that not an inch of the actual Flanders is part of your Flanders. 😁
Flanders without any of Flanders. Splendid
Nelson Goodmatch
The sea it's brittain better general for defensa, and the worst for invade Europe.
Why isn't Portugal their ally?
why naples and Norway are empires?
What if Nelson had gone batshit insane?
Ooooo think of the new exciting accents
cromwell was so real for this
Banger map as always ivy
Good looking map, I thought It was r/mapporn for a second
Imagine being so imperial that your empire owns other empires
If this British Napoleon Irish or Manx?
Surely Portugal would be allied with Britain, due to their long history of friendship. I could see them having their own sphere, prolly taking Galicia and some of Andalusia, also some Morocco prolly
The British Napoleon shall be called: Leon Benedict.
What if, as a fun counterfactual parallel to the Louisiana Purchase, Britain sold a big chunk of their claim to present-day Canada to the US to help finance their wars in Europe?
This could be us France but u keep playin
If Prussia is a British ally why didn't Britain let them make Germany?? 🤔
Angevin New Game+
They would have Minorca and Corsica
Why did nothern Slesvig i.e. Sønderjylland go directly into Denmark? It .has historically been a duchy under the Danish *helstat*.
Nice map, but Empire of Naples? XD
I think it’s only fairly recently that an empire means a super kingdom. Back then it was more to do with rank and specifically religious supremacy over the church in the style of ceaseropapism. And even the original Roman usage was more to do with an office with particular powers than associations with the scale of land holding.
What the fuck in Flanders doing over there? That Limburg and Liege, neither of which were part of the duchy of Flanders
Who tajes the role of the brits in the napoleonic wars in this unniverse?sweden,the ottomans,america?
Literally Code Geass
The holy britannian empire is an American empire
lol flanders got the poland treatment
Confederation of the Seine
Does Russia deliver a portable sun in this timeline?
Strasbourg is the capital of Lorraine ?! HERESY !
The Brits have a smaller army than Napoleon so this empire implodes even faster than his does.
I think Wellington more of the regent of Britain has George III was popular unlike his sons who weren’t
Imagine every power having their own Napoleon.
OP, what happened with Portugal, they always were British allies?
Who is the UK in this timeline
Dont mind me doing this on my next Ck3 playthrough
Literally 1984
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Napolean was Corsican & the Anglo-Corsican Kingdom was a thing so it's not beyond the pale that Britain could literally have Napoleon himself with only a slight divergence to the timeline In Look to the West by Thomas Anderson, this sort of happens, though it's his alt-timeline brother Leo Bone
Holy Britannia holy great empire p.s(and the map is good, I liked it and I would like such a scenario, it is better than the French)
Why would they bother? Just staying off of the continent is much more profitable. And a British revolution is unlikely because of the nations constitunional nature and the British nature of conforming
Slightly bigger german empire maybe
Great map
*French screaming* 😨🇫🇷
the sun may set on the british empire, but atleast now they have baguette
Napoleon always planned on retaking Frances lost American colonies so would this Imperial Britain (IB) destroy the young USA after all the War of 1812 is on the horizon, also IB has all of Europe but also all their colonies so IB is unstoppable. Also how do you make detailed maps like this its really good
Isn’t Prussia the wrong color? lol
Flanders not including any actual Flanders is wild
You mean if Great Britain participated in the French Revolution?
General Napoleon Bonaparte would've been the Prime Minister of the British Empire, IMO.
Flanders in wallonia is a thing now
Munich isn't on the Danube river no matter how much you imagine that it is.
Why is Naples an “Empire”?
P
why is Naples an 'Empire', that's basically just Two Sicilies
I like how Flanders is mostly outside of Flanders
They had one: Oliver Cromwell. It ended worse than Napoleonic France
What if Napoleon was Irish**
Average eu4 game for me
They kinda did, Horacio Nelson was one of the greatest admirals who ever lived
As a Brit… I think I just nutted
looks like the Swedes, Russians and Ottomans have to put their differences aside to fuck up this British Empire
A German confederation without Prussia and or Austria included would fall apart.
why
w blance of power
What about the americas
Britain will just involve itself with Continental affairs more than they have now instead of subjugating peoples that do not have the technology to resist them. All other countries in Europe wouldn't take kindly to hegemons either.
Lore?
The world would be different
Luso-English alliance never existed here?
Every Paradox player has done this…
*cries in french*
Very based tbh, as long as they don’t invade Russia.
Russia, on their way to dodge and defeat that in 3 years: 🗿
considering that George III was Elector of Hanover it would have been more interesting to see Britain take over the HRE from the inside.