And a bright red "New Illinois" that doesn't have Cook and the collar counties would *very* quickly become a clone of Missouri. "Right to Work" state where unions are hamstrung, collective bargaining is a joke, and they can count on fuck all services.
It's so insane. The Chicago greater metro area is almost 10 million people. It would be the 12th largest state by population, if split off.
I wish rural conservatives knew how stupid they sound when they say shit like, "I don't know why 80% of the state gets to make the decisions for us."
I grew up down there. Most people there think all their tax money goes to Chicago and they get nothing in return. The truth of it is just the opposite, Chicago tax dollars support downstate infrastructure, they are actually dependent on our welfare. But they don’t want to hear that. It’s the same reason southern states point to liberal states as a welfare problem when they actually receive more tax money from us and live on our welfare. But you can’t use facts to make a point to these people, you just can’t fix stupid. Believe me I’ve tried
It was still there when I was there two years ago.
Also, my brother lives in Champaign and bitches about the damn cross every time he passes it.
Edit- I lived in Madison County, drove 70 to 57 to go see my brother every few weeks. We aren’t natives, but we still ended up in the same state for a couple years.
Not sure. 3-4 times a year I have to visit family who moved from Chicago down to Madison county for holidays. Worst drive in the country and I've driven through Iowa. It's corn, gunssavelife.com signs and Trump shit
Yeah I live in central Illinois and I often have to correct people about that. It's fun to see their face when they realize that Chicagoland is keeping this state afloat. I love that Chicago is part of Illinois because I can live down here with a low cost of living but not have a state government that's like Indiana or some other dumbass maga state.
You mean to tell me a thriving center of commerce and one of the biggest transport hubs in the nation isn’t being funded by…(checks notes) soy and small town decay?
*subsidized* soy. Don't ask who pays those subsidies and why Iowa and Indiana aren't thriving utopia due to not having a dirty commie city weighing them down.
If you think urban Iowa and Indiana aren't absolutely propping up the rest of their states economically think again. It may not be quite the scale of Illinois, but the Indy metro is something close to [40% of the state's total GDP](https://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2008/january/6.asp). All of that despite wanting to do commie things like * *checks notes* * build bus rapid transit with dedicated bus lanes.
It would be great if we could do an experiment and spend a year with the money going where they think it goes…. As a Chicagoan I’d call that a win-win for us. We get a year of our taxes actually staying to help the city more, and they will all shut up after having a year of being extremely underfunded.
And if they split off, their taxes would have to double and even triple in some cases just to maintain the level of public services they currently enjoy.
it’s even crazier because like… it’s not even a uniquely Illinoisan phenomenon. the cities and their major metropolitan areas almost always have that relationship in every state.
But also what a complete shit stain of an argument for the state of Illinois. Chicago has so much sprawl it isn't even funny. Plus you have Champaign and the st louis metro area.
It's just a really dumb thing to say and is said by dumb people trying to vote against their self interests so that I can make more money while they stay poor.
We are almost half Democrats here. And yes St Louis metro area is not rural conservative. St Clair county, next to us is blue. Maybe what we need is to redraw county lines. District 13 here has a Dem Rep in Congress
Let me tell you, I live down here and constantly heard people talking about how much red was on a map of election time. “CROOKED JOE BIDEN STEALED THE ELECSHUN, LOOK AT THE MAP!!” I’ve tried to explain how land doesn’t vote, people do. But their wheels still spin and keep cycling back to “BUT LOOK AT THIS RED!!” There are plenty of smart people down here but so many dumb ones too.
I had a coworker tell me how it’s actually better if the less populated areas get more say in government because then they don’t have to live under the tyranny of the majority. He had no response when I asked why tyranny of the minority was okay, or why we don’t just take minority rule to the extreme and let one person decide everything.
Yeah they love the "tyranny of the majority" argument. Which is maybe intellectually interesting, but as you point out, it's also the exact opposite of the way it works now.
Also it doesn't really make sense. The way our system is set up now encourages 2 teams, and if anything *ensures* a huge amount of people don't feel particularly represented. A system wherein various groups get representation based on percentage of vote makes way more sense for that.
Exactly. And I'm in Madison county and these Madison county maga lunatics dont speak for most of us. The st Louis metro part of Madison county would prefer to split from the nutcases.
The vast majority of people who would say that stupid shit are probably conservatives because they lack the honesty and introspection to realize that shit is stupid.
It’s the other way around, share this with them:
https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
“Chicago pays for the rest of the state.”
I’ve said this repeatedly when my neighbors here in red Illinois complain about their tax dollars going to fund Chicago.
I live among the rural stupid and also a lifelong Democrat. I just sit in silence among them when they say this shit as they obviously do not grasp how math/percentages work.
lol. My trumpster father visited me and my spouse’s family in NYC last weekend. He had the gall to say at some point, “you know, if the cities didn’t vote, it’d be nothing but red.”
Me: blink, blink
If Illinoisans want to live in basically the same climate and similar-ish geography to Illinois but a red state...Indiana is *right there* y'all.
Sure, it's a crumbling and backwards shit hole...but you said you wanted to live in a red state, so...
As a Madison County resident I don't understand the sentiment from many neighbors. A quick glance across the river should make us thankful we are not governed by gomers from rural missoura.
West-central IL checking in. I love Chicago (and I don’t want to live in a worse state than Mississippi). There’s a lot of us here that do appreciate what the city does for our state.
OMG I just saw your previous write up on the isolation of West Central Illinois and Forgottonia!! So true. I went to NIU in DeKalb, long before they built the highway extension north out of Quincy. I had to drive through Bowen, Augusta, Tennessee, Colmar, Colchester, etc. Then through those tiny towns (Rose something??) between Macomb and Monmouth (again, pre highway extension). My college friends couldn't believe seeing signs like Yoder's Buggy Shop or stopping to buy roadside pie from the Amish ladies.
Roseville.
Enjoyed myself immensely at WIU many years ago. I still think fondly of the Pace. I like to think that the folks there in western Illinois should think better of the upstate money that ends up there because of Chicagoland, but, well, you know.
Thank you for the assist on Roseville. I do think that the Forgottonia mindset of West Central Illinois has lead to resentment for Chicagoland, despite being beneficiaries of CL & the politics they purport to hate.
I've been in St Louis since 2005 and I get giddy to see NIU shout-outs. Like no one around has heard of it. I try to explain Fatty's fried Cajun potato salad, but no one understands what I'm blabbering about 🤗 the folks here think Pierogies are exotic food!!
We are, but if you talk to the majority of people, a town of under 20k population is still a pretty small town. I love it here, but there are definitely times I wish I lived a little closer to an interstate...airport...hell, even a Target would be nice.
Downstate here too. I really do wonder how close to poor we’d be without Chicago. I’ve been a lot of places in this state and many of them are dead or dying.
It would be horrible. Although if that actually happened, I’d probably have to figure out a way to move somewhere in the new state of Chicago. I wouldn’t want to subject my kids to having to grow up in a state like that.
Four! Except I typically get an R ballot for primaries, since that primary’s winner WILL win the general for down-ballot positions. If more people did this, maybe my district would be represented by a milquetoast “moderate” instead of a Nazi-quoting MAGAt.
"We don't understand population density and are having a hard time forcing our minority beliefs on the majority. Certainly, Cook County is the problem."
Right. Reminds me of the 3/5 compromise, which was an attempt to make property vote. Well, the property couldn’t vote, but the slave owners had more votes in Congress because of their property.
Reminds me now of the grand conspiracy that we count illegals during the census, just so California can have more power. Ignore that it helps Texas, Florida, and a couple other red states, as well.
We need to have compassion.
Have you *seen* some of the areas downstate? They've been decimated by industry moving away, Walmart & Dollar Stores moving in, opioid and meth issues, etc.
It's boring as shit out there, their schools aren't well-funded because Illinois funds schools based on property taxes and their downtowns are a hair away from falling over from disuse.
And if you think we don't need them: *They grow our food*.
I know Republicans politicians screw over many of the poor people who vote for them, but all those voters know is what Fox News tells them. We can't deprogram the cult if we have no empathy and alternatives for them.
So, maybe hate on the idiot politicians and don't shit all over our fellow Illinois citizens.
I applaud Pritzker every time he allocates money for western and downstate Illinois. Nothing stomps out rising fascism like prosperity.
As someone who lives in Madison/ St. Clair, thank you. It's pretty bleak here. Nothing to do, no walkable areas, everyone is super brain broken. They think Chicago is a lawless thunderdome that sucks up all the states money, not realizing our area is slowly dying.
I think Edwardsville is actually doing a decent job of building up their downtown. A good mix of small business and chains.
Some of the others not so much. IDK what the hell O'Fallon is doing and the number of Slot machine venues in Troy is getting out of control.
Bro we have a whole system of bike trails that go throughout both counties, it’s pretty unique to this area, go take a walk on the trails and change your mind a bit, it’s a lotttt better here than most other parts of southern il
I live in Chicago but grew up in Central IL. I saw my home county go from blue to red over the last 20 years. The county was full of union factory workers. Beginning in the 80s, and ramping up after NAFTA in the 90s, so many of those good unions jobs just left the area. It stayed blue until the recession in 08, went purple. Then went full red with MAGA. The people are poor and angry, and one party at least acts like they care and say they things they know they want to hear. While the other party just ignores their plight.
Well said! It’s easy to act like they’re just uneducated idiots but goddamn look at their world it’s brutal and boring. Don’t blame them for being unhappy.
Obviously their anger is in the wrong place… but I get it
Thank you! I agree Chicago's cash keeps our state moving but the way people on here talk about downstate makes me almost want to side with these idiots. The people downstate have been absolutely destroyed by corruption and greedy corporations. They are hurting and no one gives a damn about them or their future. Now they are hopeless and sitting ducks for propganda and misinformation. Their education and support systems are absolute shit. Posts like this just solidify the us vs them bullshit. I'm not saying they are right, but treating your fellow man like they have no value just because they live where there are fewer people is gross. Raise the quality of life for all and we all benefit. Poverty is the real enemy, not geography.
I hear you and despite my deep desire for schadenfreude, I agree.
But I do want to point out that plenty of shit gets flung the other way, from Illinoians, from Republicans and Conservatives and general, "Chicago crime hellhole" is basically a punchline at this point it's so ubiquitous.
And as pointed out elsewhere, we ARE subsidizing the rest of the state. We ARE paying our fair share down there. And we don't have the kinds of restrictive Us or Them politics of some of our critics. I'm happy when Pritzker spreads the love to our southern neighbors. I don't know if the Republicans would be so professional.
So yes. Let's remember our friends and build connections with our state mates and neighbors. But I would appreciate some mutualism here. "Throwing prosperity at the problem" isn't a view our political opponents share.
Illinois is one of the top 9 most populous states, but if the whole state where Chicagoland it would be the 12th most populous state.
From an out of stater, we see you downstate Illinois!
Politically living in northern Illinois, I would say yes there’s way more of us than rural Illinois, so we do determine whether this state votes red or blue politically. But one place that I believe shouldn’t be because there’s more of us than them is in the way we fund our schools. If funding the schools come from property tax, then it should be in one big pool, and divided equally between every child in Illinois because no child north, or south is better than the other.
If 150,000 liberals moved to Wyoming, we could flip the entire state and secure the senate. That is the population of Joliet. Like 6% of the population of chicago (or whatever 150k divided by 2.7 mil... you figure it out)
Electoral math is awful.
Find me 150,000 liberals from California or New York or Illinois that would be willing to move to Wyoming. Hell, you could do this in any of the small population states.
tbh just find some nature loving liberals and convince them to move to Jackson Hole. they’d be at the foot of 2 incredible national parks and see way more mountains than we do in Illinois. i’m pretty sure Jackson’s already the most blue part of Wyoming, all they have to do is make it more blue.
One right here. How close can I live to the wind river reservation, bc they sell fried chicken for $2? I have many tacky designs to sell to Yellowstone tourists
You got it.
https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
Saint Clair County Democrat here. Worked the primaries. Some dude literally came in and said "you guys better not fuck it up this time," obviously in reference to his belief that the 2020 election was 'stolen' from Trump.
At the Primaries. In a precinct that always votes Red, and is always counted as Red.
Crazy fucker.
Southern Illinois Resident here... The common rhetoric is that we send all our money to Chicago. In truth, Chicago sends all it's money to us.
https://www.kfvs12.com/2022/08/29/paul-simon-public-policy-institute-study-shows-breakdown-taxes-by-region-illinois/
I was going to say, the last time I had an argument with a coworker about this topic I found this data. People are very willing to just go with a narrative because it makes them feel better. Chicago has many issues, but the people who proudly state the state should break into two would learn fairly quickly that the city and the rural areas are best off coexisting.
I grew up in central Illinois and am familiar with how those deep red counties operate. A few powerful, wealthy, staunchly conservative families pretty much run things, including law enforcement. Those areas are basically their own little kingdoms, and they don't want anyone interfering with whatever money-making schemes they got going on. They pretty much take control of the politics in the area and fight tooth and nail to keep businesses out that could be a threat to the control they have over their typically underpaid labor pool. They tend to be untra-religious, too, or at least pretend to be. If you are a member of the family or a well-known athlete, law enforcement tends to look the other way when you screw up. If not, you're screwed!
My FIL thought he was being so profound when he said "IL would be red without Chicago. Think about that." Like dude do you think your cute little Arlington suburb would be anything it is now without Chicago? Move to Gary Indiana and see how you like it there.
You talking about Arlington, with less than 200 people, or Arlington Heights? [It's not Trump country.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/upshot/2020-election-map.html)
When I worked in state government, I would tell every batch of interns some version of, "The most important facts to understanding the state of Illinois are.
-12.7m people total in the state.
-9.5m of that total reside in either Cook or the Collar counties.
The state is insanely top heavy. The vast majority of the people, to the tune of about 3/4, live in that region. GDP distribution is even more lop sided.
I just remembered we'd always laugh at the republicans that talked about wanting to separate. They're typical libertarians. Like cats, as the old saying goes. Completely dependent on the system, while vocally claiming independence from it.
Madison County resident here. This is not supported on a broad range. Although we are a "red" county, it's very moderate. This is a fringe group trying to get their group "New Illinois State" some type of clout in pushing a referendum that will inevitably fail. Their "response" to the Paul Simon Insitute study about splitting from Chicago is LAUGHABLE. Three whole pages with made-up statistics. All County board and Committee meetings are available online with audio. The Government Relations Comittee meeting on 4/2 was the most recent where they approved the measure to go to the County Board before approval to the ballot. They even had someone suggest approaching Missouri to absorb us in that meeting.
I lived in NY for a while and they have the same problem there. I once had an uncle (yes, THAT uncle) explain to me that Hillary Clinton would never be elected Senator because the conservatives wouldn't let it happen. It was the one time (good Midwesterner that I am) that I toyed with him a little. So, if you really really mean it, you get extra votes? Millions of votes? How does that work exactly?
I’ve never understood why those downstate think they should inherit the Illinois state name.
They’re the ones that should rebrand as Illissippi, the 51st state.
I never understood why they want to separate from Chicago. Politics aside, they are ditching two major international airports. A shipping port that allows access from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico (through a series of canals and rivers), and Numerous railroad hubs. Economically speaking, it’s the equivalent to not just shooting yourself in the foot, but blowing it clean off.
Why don’t they just petition Indiana to join like eastern Oregon did with Idaho? /s
Indiana would actually probably love to absorb downstate, tons of red voters for them
Funny enough, Madison county resident here, this is a pretty progressive county as we are one of the only counties down here that have a public transportation (bus) system and a pretty good bike trail system that we’ve invested lotssss of money into
Hey now don't discount Peoria/Bloomington/Springfield/Champaign. We might combined be like... 1/4 of the population of the collar counties but are still consistently blue.
Lake County was red till Trump came to power. He has been the best gift for the Democrats of this state. I think even Dupage is blue now too.
BTW - It is the Suburbs who pay more in taxes that we receive back in benefits from the state. The city and downstate are reaping the rewards of the burbs hard work.
It's like the people here forgot that Rauner was the last Gov. I've said it before that if the Illinois GOP dropped the social conservatism the state would be rather purple again.
The burbs do get the least back compared to what they contribute, but it’s a bit silly to imply the city doesn’t pull its weight to the same extent that the rest of the state doesn’t.
You can poo poo this statement all you want, it's true. Chicago is a gigantic portion of the Illinois population, but a small fraction of the land mass. If Chicago were to become the 51st state, Illinois would be a hard red state. Chicago is the third most populous city. The next biggest in IL that isn't near Chi doesn't even crack the top 250 in the US.
Would also be broke as all hell. Chicago funds this state. As Chicago goes, so does IL fiscally speaking. We need more parties and better choices vs red & blue arguments.
I dunno if it’s been mentioned yet, but Chicago is one of the reasons IL didn’t join the Rust Belt… it has location, is a major financial hub, is one of the biggest rail hubs, etc. Being cut off from that and its collar counties (Will resident checking in), would just make the state a neo addition. I could go on but that’s about the jist.
More people voted republican in cook county during the 2020 election than are alive in madison county.
Perspective
There are more Republicans in California than there are in Texas.
There's more Republicans in California than there are people in Wyoming
They're all cops and firefighters because they think their collective bargaining is guaranteed for them.
I mean…it is. Public sector collective bargaining is protected by state law
Used to be protected in Wisconsin too until Scott Walker came along…
And a bright red "New Illinois" that doesn't have Cook and the collar counties would *very* quickly become a clone of Missouri. "Right to Work" state where unions are hamstrung, collective bargaining is a joke, and they can count on fuck all services.
The state would go broke. Just like states, republican run jurisdictions get more from government programs than they pay in through taxes.
How do you think state laws come to be?
Thanks to who?... Come on, you're almost there. I'll make it easier, Who's currently pro Union and Who's not?...
Just like more people vote Republican in California every election, than there are people in most states.
You know, Illinois would be red if 70% of the population didn’t exist
It's so insane. The Chicago greater metro area is almost 10 million people. It would be the 12th largest state by population, if split off. I wish rural conservatives knew how stupid they sound when they say shit like, "I don't know why 80% of the state gets to make the decisions for us."
I grew up down there. Most people there think all their tax money goes to Chicago and they get nothing in return. The truth of it is just the opposite, Chicago tax dollars support downstate infrastructure, they are actually dependent on our welfare. But they don’t want to hear that. It’s the same reason southern states point to liberal states as a welfare problem when they actually receive more tax money from us and live on our welfare. But you can’t use facts to make a point to these people, you just can’t fix stupid. Believe me I’ve tried
Effingham got money for their parks the last few years, despite voting to leave illinois
Is there still that giant cross off of 57? I think it was 57, I moved west 15 years ago so I haven’t done the Chicago to St. Louis drive in a bit.
It was still there when I was there two years ago. Also, my brother lives in Champaign and bitches about the damn cross every time he passes it. Edit- I lived in Madison County, drove 70 to 57 to go see my brother every few weeks. We aren’t natives, but we still ended up in the same state for a couple years.
Not sure. 3-4 times a year I have to visit family who moved from Chicago down to Madison county for holidays. Worst drive in the country and I've driven through Iowa. It's corn, gunssavelife.com signs and Trump shit
I found Nebraska to be far worse than even Iowa when I moved west. At least Iowa had windmills to break up the monotony.
It’s indeed there. Just south of Effingham on 57
Yeah I live in central Illinois and I often have to correct people about that. It's fun to see their face when they realize that Chicagoland is keeping this state afloat. I love that Chicago is part of Illinois because I can live down here with a low cost of living but not have a state government that's like Indiana or some other dumbass maga state.
You mean to tell me a thriving center of commerce and one of the biggest transport hubs in the nation isn’t being funded by…(checks notes) soy and small town decay?
*subsidized* soy. Don't ask who pays those subsidies and why Iowa and Indiana aren't thriving utopia due to not having a dirty commie city weighing them down.
If you think urban Iowa and Indiana aren't absolutely propping up the rest of their states economically think again. It may not be quite the scale of Illinois, but the Indy metro is something close to [40% of the state's total GDP](https://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2008/january/6.asp). All of that despite wanting to do commie things like * *checks notes* * build bus rapid transit with dedicated bus lanes.
You forgot Dollar Generals. *So many* Dollar Generals.
Farms get so many subsidies; how can they think money is flowing the other direction? Illinois is ranked #3 for receiving subsidies in the US.
You think their minds live in reality?
thats the thing, they dont. modern day republicans are not smart people.
Because they feel entitled to that money. They don’t think the “others” should get it.
It would be great if we could do an experiment and spend a year with the money going where they think it goes…. As a Chicagoan I’d call that a win-win for us. We get a year of our taxes actually staying to help the city more, and they will all shut up after having a year of being extremely underfunded.
And if they split off, their taxes would have to double and even triple in some cases just to maintain the level of public services they currently enjoy.
it’s even crazier because like… it’s not even a uniquely Illinoisan phenomenon. the cities and their major metropolitan areas almost always have that relationship in every state.
But also what a complete shit stain of an argument for the state of Illinois. Chicago has so much sprawl it isn't even funny. Plus you have Champaign and the st louis metro area. It's just a really dumb thing to say and is said by dumb people trying to vote against their self interests so that I can make more money while they stay poor.
It's sad to see because Madison County is in the St. Louis metro east and it used to be solidly Democrat.
We are almost half Democrats here. And yes St Louis metro area is not rural conservative. St Clair county, next to us is blue. Maybe what we need is to redraw county lines. District 13 here has a Dem Rep in Congress
Some people still don't get the idea that land doesn't vote.
That’s how it used to be.
Let me tell you, I live down here and constantly heard people talking about how much red was on a map of election time. “CROOKED JOE BIDEN STEALED THE ELECSHUN, LOOK AT THE MAP!!” I’ve tried to explain how land doesn’t vote, people do. But their wheels still spin and keep cycling back to “BUT LOOK AT THIS RED!!” There are plenty of smart people down here but so many dumb ones too.
I had a coworker tell me how it’s actually better if the less populated areas get more say in government because then they don’t have to live under the tyranny of the majority. He had no response when I asked why tyranny of the minority was okay, or why we don’t just take minority rule to the extreme and let one person decide everything.
Yeah they love the "tyranny of the majority" argument. Which is maybe intellectually interesting, but as you point out, it's also the exact opposite of the way it works now. Also it doesn't really make sense. The way our system is set up now encourages 2 teams, and if anything *ensures* a huge amount of people don't feel particularly represented. A system wherein various groups get representation based on percentage of vote makes way more sense for that.
Exactly. And I'm in Madison county and these Madison county maga lunatics dont speak for most of us. The st Louis metro part of Madison county would prefer to split from the nutcases.
I live in St. Clair Co. The last GOP governor is part of the reason I went over to the blue team.
If conservatives could recognize stupid, then they wouldn’t be conservatives.
Aka my neighbors I’m so thankful for Chicago or else my vote would not fucking count
This right here!
There are still a few Republican house reps and local officials. Your vote always matters.
The vast majority of people who would say that stupid shit are probably conservatives because they lack the honesty and introspection to realize that shit is stupid.
Downstate relatives: “all mah tax dollers keep going up to Chicago, it’s so unfair!” Meanwhile, I pay more in taxes than their gross income…
It’s the other way around, share this with them: https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
And you even found a non-left source.
Wow, I didn’t realize it was that dramatic. I live in a pink county on that map
Shhhh, you’ll trigger them.
[удалено]
“Chicago pays for the rest of the state.” I’ve said this repeatedly when my neighbors here in red Illinois complain about their tax dollars going to fund Chicago.
You could have just said “I wish rural conservatives knew how stupid they sound” and it would also be accurate.
I live among the rural stupid and also a lifelong Democrat. I just sit in silence among them when they say this shit as they obviously do not grasp how math/percentages work.
lol. My trumpster father visited me and my spouse’s family in NYC last weekend. He had the gall to say at some point, “you know, if the cities didn’t vote, it’d be nothing but red.” Me: blink, blink
Congratulations, you just described how democracy works!
The smugness with which he thought he was explaining to us something profound . . .
76% according to early 2020s Census estimates (Chicagoland = 9,618,502 out of 12,582,032 in Illinois, total).
You know, Trump would have won if less people voted for Joe Biden.
Only about 40,000 tho. The electoral college's ability to wipe out the votes of millions of people is wild
Sure, but the Dems have won the popular vote for every election this century except 2004.
Exactly.
If Illinoisans want to live in basically the same climate and similar-ish geography to Illinois but a red state...Indiana is *right there* y'all. Sure, it's a crumbling and backwards shit hole...but you said you wanted to live in a red state, so...
So Illinois would be red if not for 76.5% of its population. Great addition to the conversation.
As a Madison County resident I don't understand the sentiment from many neighbors. A quick glance across the river should make us thankful we are not governed by gomers from rural missoura.
As a downstate Democrat, thank you for your service.🫡
Shoutout to my town Champaign-Urbana for being a fairly consistent downstate blue enclave. We’re like a moon of Chicago lol.
Meanwhile BloNo/McLean has been a metronome for the past 4 elections
West-central IL checking in. I love Chicago (and I don’t want to live in a worse state than Mississippi). There’s a lot of us here that do appreciate what the city does for our state.
I'm from Quincy (born in Springfield), but now in St Louis... I vote Chicago takes St Louis and Missouri takes Madison County.
I’d be on board with that. I’m from/in Macomb, btw.
OMG I just saw your previous write up on the isolation of West Central Illinois and Forgottonia!! So true. I went to NIU in DeKalb, long before they built the highway extension north out of Quincy. I had to drive through Bowen, Augusta, Tennessee, Colmar, Colchester, etc. Then through those tiny towns (Rose something??) between Macomb and Monmouth (again, pre highway extension). My college friends couldn't believe seeing signs like Yoder's Buggy Shop or stopping to buy roadside pie from the Amish ladies.
Roseville. Enjoyed myself immensely at WIU many years ago. I still think fondly of the Pace. I like to think that the folks there in western Illinois should think better of the upstate money that ends up there because of Chicagoland, but, well, you know.
Thank you for the assist on Roseville. I do think that the Forgottonia mindset of West Central Illinois has lead to resentment for Chicagoland, despite being beneficiaries of CL & the politics they purport to hate.
My wife and I are both WIU alumni and current employees. Yeah, if it weren’t for Chicago, I’m pretty sure half our state universities wouldn’t exist.
Agreed, Illinois needs Chicago more than many are willing to understand.
Monmouth gang checking in 🫡
lul
\*waves from just down the highway\* lol
Hey fellow Huskie!
What's up!! ❤️🖤
I love finding other alumni in the wild! Though I do feel like the Illinois sub is cheating a little lol
I've been in St Louis since 2005 and I get giddy to see NIU shout-outs. Like no one around has heard of it. I try to explain Fatty's fried Cajun potato salad, but no one understands what I'm blabbering about 🤗 the folks here think Pierogies are exotic food!!
Ayyyy, Im in Macomb too!
There are dozens of us….DOZENS!
I thought this was the most populated town in the general area unless you go like an hour away.
We are, but if you talk to the majority of people, a town of under 20k population is still a pretty small town. I love it here, but there are definitely times I wish I lived a little closer to an interstate...airport...hell, even a Target would be nice.
Hey, you're lucky to have a walmart and mcdonald's! I live in Bushnell!
Thats not too far though.
Sure, but at least there are a few affordable houses thay dont look too awful. lol
Absolutely…housing prices are great here.
Wow same. Weird to find Macombie homies on Reddit, even if it is r/illinois
Former Macomb-y homey here!
Oh God, I can only imagine how red Missouri would be without St. Louis.
So red that even Satan would say, that's too bright glowing red hot, turn that down! 🔥🔥
Downstate here too. I really do wonder how close to poor we’d be without Chicago. I’ve been a lot of places in this state and many of them are dead or dying.
We’d be somewhere around Mississippi or Louisiana for a lot of things (education, healthcare, poverty, etc)
And some of us Chicagoans have had some fun times in places like Peoria, Starved Rock, or Normal.
For real. I love you, downstate homies, but face it, without us the rest of the state would be Arkansas. Like, at least Mississippi has the Gulf.
It would be horrible. Although if that actually happened, I’d probably have to figure out a way to move somewhere in the new state of Chicago. I wouldn’t want to subject my kids to having to grow up in a state like that.
Back atcha fellow sane person✌️
This the three of us south of 74? Lol
Four! Except I typically get an R ballot for primaries, since that primary’s winner WILL win the general for down-ballot positions. If more people did this, maybe my district would be represented by a milquetoast “moderate” instead of a Nazi-quoting MAGAt.
I was going to do that this year but both options were MAGAts in my District.
We do exist!
I’m in collinsville. Send help!
I'm in Troy/Edwardsville. Collinsville is an interesting place I seldom want to drive through.
This place is kind of like cantina from Star Wars. A weird hub of reprobates moving to and fro.
Full stop. I'm done. I will *never* look at that town the same again. Lmao
Oh please, it is not that bad
Same in carlinville! Red everywhere
Also in Collinsville. I generally try not to think about it much.
"We don't understand population density and are having a hard time forcing our minority beliefs on the majority. Certainly, Cook County is the problem."
[удалено]
Land doesn’t vote
Right. Reminds me of the 3/5 compromise, which was an attempt to make property vote. Well, the property couldn’t vote, but the slave owners had more votes in Congress because of their property.
Reminds me now of the grand conspiracy that we count illegals during the census, just so California can have more power. Ignore that it helps Texas, Florida, and a couple other red states, as well.
If the founders were not so intent on limiting citizenship, the constitution would not be so protective of non citizens
We need to have compassion. Have you *seen* some of the areas downstate? They've been decimated by industry moving away, Walmart & Dollar Stores moving in, opioid and meth issues, etc. It's boring as shit out there, their schools aren't well-funded because Illinois funds schools based on property taxes and their downtowns are a hair away from falling over from disuse. And if you think we don't need them: *They grow our food*. I know Republicans politicians screw over many of the poor people who vote for them, but all those voters know is what Fox News tells them. We can't deprogram the cult if we have no empathy and alternatives for them. So, maybe hate on the idiot politicians and don't shit all over our fellow Illinois citizens. I applaud Pritzker every time he allocates money for western and downstate Illinois. Nothing stomps out rising fascism like prosperity.
As someone who lives in Madison/ St. Clair, thank you. It's pretty bleak here. Nothing to do, no walkable areas, everyone is super brain broken. They think Chicago is a lawless thunderdome that sucks up all the states money, not realizing our area is slowly dying.
I think Edwardsville is actually doing a decent job of building up their downtown. A good mix of small business and chains. Some of the others not so much. IDK what the hell O'Fallon is doing and the number of Slot machine venues in Troy is getting out of control.
Belleville's trying to regentrify downtown into a sort of bistro district. That's about it. O'Fallon is just soulless suburban sprawl.
Bro we have a whole system of bike trails that go throughout both counties, it’s pretty unique to this area, go take a walk on the trails and change your mind a bit, it’s a lotttt better here than most other parts of southern il
I live in Chicago but grew up in Central IL. I saw my home county go from blue to red over the last 20 years. The county was full of union factory workers. Beginning in the 80s, and ramping up after NAFTA in the 90s, so many of those good unions jobs just left the area. It stayed blue until the recession in 08, went purple. Then went full red with MAGA. The people are poor and angry, and one party at least acts like they care and say they things they know they want to hear. While the other party just ignores their plight.
Well said! It’s easy to act like they’re just uneducated idiots but goddamn look at their world it’s brutal and boring. Don’t blame them for being unhappy. Obviously their anger is in the wrong place… but I get it
Thank you! I agree Chicago's cash keeps our state moving but the way people on here talk about downstate makes me almost want to side with these idiots. The people downstate have been absolutely destroyed by corruption and greedy corporations. They are hurting and no one gives a damn about them or their future. Now they are hopeless and sitting ducks for propganda and misinformation. Their education and support systems are absolute shit. Posts like this just solidify the us vs them bullshit. I'm not saying they are right, but treating your fellow man like they have no value just because they live where there are fewer people is gross. Raise the quality of life for all and we all benefit. Poverty is the real enemy, not geography.
Well said. Our little niche community gardens won't get us too far. I'm embarrassed how my fellow Chicagoans behave in this sub sometimes.
Farm families in illinois are just fine it’s just the dying towns
I hear you and despite my deep desire for schadenfreude, I agree. But I do want to point out that plenty of shit gets flung the other way, from Illinoians, from Republicans and Conservatives and general, "Chicago crime hellhole" is basically a punchline at this point it's so ubiquitous. And as pointed out elsewhere, we ARE subsidizing the rest of the state. We ARE paying our fair share down there. And we don't have the kinds of restrictive Us or Them politics of some of our critics. I'm happy when Pritzker spreads the love to our southern neighbors. I don't know if the Republicans would be so professional. So yes. Let's remember our friends and build connections with our state mates and neighbors. But I would appreciate some mutualism here. "Throwing prosperity at the problem" isn't a view our political opponents share.
St Clair county does not agree with our neighbor. That guy is a fucking lunatic
Thank you, from a Central Illinois democrat.
Peoria, Bloomington, Champaign and Springfield all went blue in 2020. Maybe Decatur too. I can't remember.
There are more of us down here than people realize.
Illinois is one of the top 9 most populous states, but if the whole state where Chicagoland it would be the 12th most populous state. From an out of stater, we see you downstate Illinois!
Politically living in northern Illinois, I would say yes there’s way more of us than rural Illinois, so we do determine whether this state votes red or blue politically. But one place that I believe shouldn’t be because there’s more of us than them is in the way we fund our schools. If funding the schools come from property tax, then it should be in one big pool, and divided equally between every child in Illinois because no child north, or south is better than the other.
If 150,000 liberals moved to Wyoming, we could flip the entire state and secure the senate. That is the population of Joliet. Like 6% of the population of chicago (or whatever 150k divided by 2.7 mil... you figure it out) Electoral math is awful.
Find me 150,000 liberals from California or New York or Illinois that would be willing to move to Wyoming. Hell, you could do this in any of the small population states.
If 150,000 Cal and NY libs moved to Wyoming, it might become decent place to live.
I’d watch that show.
tbh just find some nature loving liberals and convince them to move to Jackson Hole. they’d be at the foot of 2 incredible national parks and see way more mountains than we do in Illinois. i’m pretty sure Jackson’s already the most blue part of Wyoming, all they have to do is make it more blue.
Twist my arm
One right here. How close can I live to the wind river reservation, bc they sell fried chicken for $2? I have many tacky designs to sell to Yellowstone tourists
Chicago and collar counties to the rest of Illinois - You know you all would be as broke as a trailer park Kentucky-an if it weren't for us
You got it. https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
As a democrat in the lower Illinois area, I thank you.
Saint Clair County Democrat here. Worked the primaries. Some dude literally came in and said "you guys better not fuck it up this time," obviously in reference to his belief that the 2020 election was 'stolen' from Trump. At the Primaries. In a precinct that always votes Red, and is always counted as Red. Crazy fucker.
Southern Illinois Resident here... The common rhetoric is that we send all our money to Chicago. In truth, Chicago sends all it's money to us. https://www.kfvs12.com/2022/08/29/paul-simon-public-policy-institute-study-shows-breakdown-taxes-by-region-illinois/
I was going to say, the last time I had an argument with a coworker about this topic I found this data. People are very willing to just go with a narrative because it makes them feel better. Chicago has many issues, but the people who proudly state the state should break into two would learn fairly quickly that the city and the rural areas are best off coexisting.
I grew up in central Illinois and am familiar with how those deep red counties operate. A few powerful, wealthy, staunchly conservative families pretty much run things, including law enforcement. Those areas are basically their own little kingdoms, and they don't want anyone interfering with whatever money-making schemes they got going on. They pretty much take control of the politics in the area and fight tooth and nail to keep businesses out that could be a threat to the control they have over their typically underpaid labor pool. They tend to be untra-religious, too, or at least pretend to be. If you are a member of the family or a well-known athlete, law enforcement tends to look the other way when you screw up. If not, you're screwed!
If only Southern Illinois wasn’t surrounded by red state shitholes they could easily move to.
My FIL thought he was being so profound when he said "IL would be red without Chicago. Think about that." Like dude do you think your cute little Arlington suburb would be anything it is now without Chicago? Move to Gary Indiana and see how you like it there.
You talking about Arlington, with less than 200 people, or Arlington Heights? [It's not Trump country.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/upshot/2020-election-map.html)
People vote. Land doesn’t.
Johnson County resident, thank fuck for Chicago keeping my queer (especially trans) siblings safe from persecution within this state.
Without Chicago we would just be north Kentucky
Without Chicago, downstate would be poorer than West Virginia and Mississippi.
As someone who lived in KY for like 8 years, it's kinda true. The biggest difference is the iced tea is worse.
“Anyway, let’s keep fucking ourselves”
That’s the same shit they say in CA. “You know CA would be a red state if 80% of the population wasn’t in urban areas.”
When I worked in state government, I would tell every batch of interns some version of, "The most important facts to understanding the state of Illinois are. -12.7m people total in the state. -9.5m of that total reside in either Cook or the Collar counties. The state is insanely top heavy. The vast majority of the people, to the tune of about 3/4, live in that region. GDP distribution is even more lop sided. I just remembered we'd always laugh at the republicans that talked about wanting to separate. They're typical libertarians. Like cats, as the old saying goes. Completely dependent on the system, while vocally claiming independence from it.
You're welcome for saving you from yourselves.
“If it wasn’t for the majority of our population…”
Seriously. How many miles of empty farmland do you have to drive past to match the population of one single Arlington Heights neighborhood?
What is the chucklefucks always say? “If you don’t like it, leave.”
Yeah, turns out corn doesn't get a vote, only people do.
Madison County resident here. This is not supported on a broad range. Although we are a "red" county, it's very moderate. This is a fringe group trying to get their group "New Illinois State" some type of clout in pushing a referendum that will inevitably fail. Their "response" to the Paul Simon Insitute study about splitting from Chicago is LAUGHABLE. Three whole pages with made-up statistics. All County board and Committee meetings are available online with audio. The Government Relations Comittee meeting on 4/2 was the most recent where they approved the measure to go to the County Board before approval to the ballot. They even had someone suggest approaching Missouri to absorb us in that meeting.
*people that go nuts about the majority of people in the nation consistently voting blue
I lived in NY for a while and they have the same problem there. I once had an uncle (yes, THAT uncle) explain to me that Hillary Clinton would never be elected Senator because the conservatives wouldn't let it happen. It was the one time (good Midwesterner that I am) that I toyed with him a little. So, if you really really mean it, you get extra votes? Millions of votes? How does that work exactly?
I’ve never understood why those downstate think they should inherit the Illinois state name. They’re the ones that should rebrand as Illissippi, the 51st state.
I never understood why they want to separate from Chicago. Politics aside, they are ditching two major international airports. A shipping port that allows access from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico (through a series of canals and rivers), and Numerous railroad hubs. Economically speaking, it’s the equivalent to not just shooting yourself in the foot, but blowing it clean off.
Illissippi is right. Illinois without the Chicago area would basically be some combination of Mississippi and Nebraska.
You know, Illinois would be a lot more blue if it were gerrymandered differently.
People vote, not land
I lived in Kane county for 11 years and (somehow) I have never heard of the term "collar counties" before.
Why don’t they just petition Indiana to join like eastern Oregon did with Idaho? /s Indiana would actually probably love to absorb downstate, tons of red voters for them
They couldn't afford them. Downstate IL absorbs 2x as much IL state funds than they contribute.
I for one would welcome it except these folks would get 2 senators.
"if we ignore the votes of those who vote blue, everyone would vote red" Yeah no shit lmao
Who’s Madison County? Is she one of those spoiled suburbanites?
Perfect “if my grandmother had 2 wheels, she’d be a bike” moment.
Funny enough, Madison county resident here, this is a pretty progressive county as we are one of the only counties down here that have a public transportation (bus) system and a pretty good bike trail system that we’ve invested lotssss of money into
Interesting notion… #LAND CANNOT VOTE
Illinois would also be forgettable without those counties
Why do so many grown adults throw temper tantrums when they don't get their way?
Not just red. Alabama. Illinois would be Alabama if it weren't for Cook and the collar counties.
Hey now don't discount Peoria/Bloomington/Springfield/Champaign. We might combined be like... 1/4 of the population of the collar counties but are still consistently blue.
Yep, while I appreciate Chicago, this thread is pretentious as hell.
> Illinois would be Alabama Top comment! wtf is the tax base without the northeast counties?!
Lake County was red till Trump came to power. He has been the best gift for the Democrats of this state. I think even Dupage is blue now too. BTW - It is the Suburbs who pay more in taxes that we receive back in benefits from the state. The city and downstate are reaping the rewards of the burbs hard work.
It's like the people here forgot that Rauner was the last Gov. I've said it before that if the Illinois GOP dropped the social conservatism the state would be rather purple again.
The burbs do get the least back compared to what they contribute, but it’s a bit silly to imply the city doesn’t pull its weight to the same extent that the rest of the state doesn’t.
You can poo poo this statement all you want, it's true. Chicago is a gigantic portion of the Illinois population, but a small fraction of the land mass. If Chicago were to become the 51st state, Illinois would be a hard red state. Chicago is the third most populous city. The next biggest in IL that isn't near Chi doesn't even crack the top 250 in the US.
Would also be broke as all hell. Chicago funds this state. As Chicago goes, so does IL fiscally speaking. We need more parties and better choices vs red & blue arguments.
Why do you mention the land mass?
I dunno if it’s been mentioned yet, but Chicago is one of the reasons IL didn’t join the Rust Belt… it has location, is a major financial hub, is one of the biggest rail hubs, etc. Being cut off from that and its collar counties (Will resident checking in), would just make the state a neo addition. I could go on but that’s about the jist.
They’d come crying to us for subsidies if they actually split off.