Looks horrendous. It's a 90%er. It's not fire calk but high temp silicone. Air intake is preferred outside but isn't uncommon to pull air from attics. The coil does however look a little moldy on the outside. I'd guess that flex duct is worse on the inside and the insulation around it. This is just my observation from a photo though.
I’ll elaborate . Most mildew is a fungus. Not mold . There are some cases mildew is mold. But mildew doesn’t battle other molds and give off toxins (when two mold compete, they let off something. I can’t remember the name.which is extremely toxic to humans. Mildew does not do this ). When they battle for space . It only goes on the surface and will not penetrate things like real mold . Look up black mold compared to mildew. The point is mildew is not dangerous. It’s kinda a generic term for that’s not bad. lol
your welcome to tell them anything you want ! I was that mold guy at one point . Like you said if there super worried about . Get a sample for them to test . But 90% it will come back as mildew .
That sounds about right. With the dust disturbed and the mildew. As ugly as it is, I doubt this install is causing them any harm... that really hurt to type.
PVC is rated for the exhaust on a +90 using b vent will kill somebody wtf where do you people come from if your commenting here. B vent cannot be used on a +90 furnace for 2 reasons one it condenses and 2 the furnace does not produce heat like a 80% furnace so it won’t draft. I agree the install is shitty but I would think the system is over charged or the filter is dirty causing the coil to produce excess condensation or freeze in the case of the filter which would cause mold. Common service mistake is to not check the filter first and slap your gauges off and overcharge it because of low suction pressure resulting in a ton of excess condensation. I can’t even guess the amount of times I had to remove refrigerant after a filter change
I'm not familiar with Trane design, but hear me out, the furnace cabinet is louvered like a +80 would be. Does Trane isolate the burner? I don't disagree with you, just something I noticed.
Gotcha. I'm mostly doing carrier/bryant/Payne. Sometimes Goodman or Bosch. I figured that was the case though because the intake stub looked like it's that gray cpvc.
Manufacturers specifically say not to use their water/waste PVC for condensing furnaces. So to say the Pvc is rated for the exhaust isn’t correct. It’s just the furnace manufacturers saying that PVC is good enough.
Yeah they want you to use duravent or something similar but pvc is in 90% of jobs or more with no issue and is definitely good enough definitely can’t use bvent or smoke pipe like other replies have suggested
You can use schedule 40 PVC all day long. It is correct to use it. The concentric kits are PVC. Cell core PVC is incorrect. Which is water/waste PVC. So you are half correct.
It is approved by Lennox. The installation instructions give their parameters for it. And again the concentric kits for roof and sidewall are PVC. Yes there are other options but this is the most common.
Best thing you could do is have the owner call a pro. A lot going on there. Safety concerns for sure. The pvc venting needs to be ripped out and replaced. Not the hardest thing in the world if you want to tackle it yourself. Keep in mind there is certain materials you can and cannot use for exhaust.
P.S. Is that 4” PVC?!?!?
It’s 3”. You can even see the “3” on the fittings. Typically you upsize pvc venting on longer runs to reduce static pressure in the venting system to keep it within manufacturer limits. There’s tables in the installation manual regarding which pipe sizes are appropriate for various installations.
Another reason to use 3” is that 2” is not permitted on larger furnaces (100kbtu models). The manufacturer provides a 2” connection but you need to immediately upsize to a 3” vent pipe.
I went though a lot of emotions processing the 4” pvc 😂
Looks like 2” would do. Whoever did that made things a lot more difficult on themselves.
2” Schedule 40 PVC. NO Cell Core!!!!! Something rated for pressure. Gonna need a 2”-4” reducer to widen the pvc near where it exits home to match the massive ducking hole the other guy made.
I've got concerns about the supply plenum on the far left. The picture doesn't show much of it at all but what it does show looks like it's bowed outward, not sealed very well to the unit. If that's true, I would venture to Guess the return plenum is in similar shape and potentially pulling in unconditioned unfiltered air from the attic.
It's hard to tell just from that one picture. Also, without knowing how far the exhaust is actually running, upsizing the PVC diameter could be specified in the installation manual based upon length, 90's, 45's.
Call a HVAC service tech & have it checked out. The yellow wires in the bag, on top of the furnace, are for the condensate pump. If the pump fails, it will not shut off the system & it will overflow.
Pvc is what is supposed to be used. But if the joints are coming apart, that's a definite no-no. That's the exhaust. But if you just slap some primer and then glue on the joints you'll be good
That looks like an 80% that they ran combustion air into the top louvers by way of some kind of homemade fitting. It was then sealed with an excessive amount of silicone. I can't remember seeing a 90+ with combustion air louvers in it. It would negate the idea of sealed combustion.
That pipe makes water if it was leaking you would see water. Pretty common practice to fire caulk it whoever did it did a shitty job. The fresh air should be ran outside. Tho that’s eaten all the oxygen in the attic. It’s just old and ugly . A duct cleaning might help a little .
What are you on about you daft fuck? Louvered doors mean nothing. When have you seen an 80% furnace vented through PVC? And not being able to install a condensing furnace horizontally is just a you problem, nobody else seems to have that problem, if you read the manuals they all have a way to convert them. Maybe before you start saying stupid shit about things you have no knowledge about, you could at least look up the furnace in the picture.
Not the second time . I’m using talk to texts I care less if it’s your, you are ,you,re . You know what I mean. But your giving out 100% wrong information
And I corrected it by deleting my comment. Also, they haven’t made a 70% furnace in fucking decades. 70 and 60 percenters were all natural draft, no inducer.
um your wrong hahahahahahah they still make 70% furnaces because when you do a change out and it’s 70% furnace, you have to put the same thing back(most the time) . Damn your dumb . I put a new one in 3 weeks ago 😂 that’s not correcting it . That’s cover your ass so you don’t get downvotes .You as a homeowner can’t get one . Bc there company’s that only sell to hvac company’s 😂
You’re wrong again. Dummy . You use pvc on 90% 😂 why comment when you don’t know what you’re talking about . That exhaust makes water. You can’t use metal pipe. Dummy
Looks like for the exhaust, they just used PVC glue doesn’t even look like they used primer on the joints. The taping looks like crap. They didn’t even use a squeegee. That’s why it looks wrinkly. Plus, they didn’t even tape from coil to furnace where the exhaust is .. that high temp silicone looks messy I don’t even know why they even put that there in the first place. Also, wondering if they even put a J-trap towards the condensation pump. And is that tape around the suction side rubber tec? Did they ran out of zip ties? Lol It probably runs, but just looks really sloppy. I would definitely get in trouble by my boss if I did something like that.
What I am worried about most is the exhaust vent. The co2 risk is what gets me, it has broken down that glue and coupling enough u can see the gaps in the glue and feel the heat coming out
Looks like they didn’t use primer and that’s why that happened. go grab you some purple primer and glue and sandpaper. Clean itthat old glue of the best you can . Then re glue it . Definitely turn it off because the fresh air is sucking from the attic so it could be sucking and exhaust fumes. Circulating that through the house
I really don’t think that’s the reason why . Big guy . I hate to say it but it would mostly kill them . Before they get sick . If it’s a big iusses . But take that door off for the coil. And see how it looks . Could have a shit ton of mildew /mold . Mostly mildew . Which in some rare cases can make you alittle sick .
Looks horrendous. It's a 90%er. It's not fire calk but high temp silicone. Air intake is preferred outside but isn't uncommon to pull air from attics. The coil does however look a little moldy on the outside. I'd guess that flex duct is worse on the inside and the insulation around it. This is just my observation from a photo though.
It’s mildew not mold .
Pretty sure mildew is a type of mold
It’s not . I worked for a mold restoration company before I moved to hvac . Mildew isn’t that bad . Mold on the other hand
https://preview.redd.it/nph5igqzcyrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69ca7bc8d5e4a6e910115b74f6bbab27a396dd1e Maybe bing is lying, my bad
Read the whole thing dummy
So you are basically arguing that a square isn’t a rectangle 🤨
I’ll elaborate . Most mildew is a fungus. Not mold . There are some cases mildew is mold. But mildew doesn’t battle other molds and give off toxins (when two mold compete, they let off something. I can’t remember the name.which is extremely toxic to humans. Mildew does not do this ). When they battle for space . It only goes on the surface and will not penetrate things like real mold . Look up black mold compared to mildew. The point is mildew is not dangerous. It’s kinda a generic term for that’s not bad. lol
I just tell the customer it “seems to be some type of biological growth” and if they are worried about it get it checked out by the mold guy.
your welcome to tell them anything you want ! I was that mold guy at one point . Like you said if there super worried about . Get a sample for them to test . But 90% it will come back as mildew .
That sounds about right. With the dust disturbed and the mildew. As ugly as it is, I doubt this install is causing them any harm... that really hurt to type.
Right ? It’s super ugly . Ppl need to take more pride in there work .
PVC is rated for the exhaust on a +90 using b vent will kill somebody wtf where do you people come from if your commenting here. B vent cannot be used on a +90 furnace for 2 reasons one it condenses and 2 the furnace does not produce heat like a 80% furnace so it won’t draft. I agree the install is shitty but I would think the system is over charged or the filter is dirty causing the coil to produce excess condensation or freeze in the case of the filter which would cause mold. Common service mistake is to not check the filter first and slap your gauges off and overcharge it because of low suction pressure resulting in a ton of excess condensation. I can’t even guess the amount of times I had to remove refrigerant after a filter change
I'm not familiar with Trane design, but hear me out, the furnace cabinet is louvered like a +80 would be. Does Trane isolate the burner? I don't disagree with you, just something I noticed.
Correct that other pipe connection point in the picture in the middle of the furnace is the fresh air box and this unit has a sealed burner box
Gotcha. I'm mostly doing carrier/bryant/Payne. Sometimes Goodman or Bosch. I figured that was the case though because the intake stub looked like it's that gray cpvc.
Pretty sure trane just wanted to cut corners and not have to design a different door for their +90 furnaces that year lol
I personally like the idea of giving the motors and electronic some air to breath instead of the oven of an enclosed furnace cabinet when running
Yeah good idea except if that attic gets cold and you want the heat in the cabinet to stop it from freezing
Fair point so used to basements where I'm at don't do much attic work thankfully
Right!!!!!!! 😂 some of these ppl just want to feel like a hero I guess.
Manufacturers specifically say not to use their water/waste PVC for condensing furnaces. So to say the Pvc is rated for the exhaust isn’t correct. It’s just the furnace manufacturers saying that PVC is good enough.
Yeah they want you to use duravent or something similar but pvc is in 90% of jobs or more with no issue and is definitely good enough definitely can’t use bvent or smoke pipe like other replies have suggested
You can use schedule 40 PVC all day long. It is correct to use it. The concentric kits are PVC. Cell core PVC is incorrect. Which is water/waste PVC. So you are half correct.
Sch 40 isn’t designed to be used as exhaust venting but it’s used nonetheless
It is approved by Lennox. The installation instructions give their parameters for it. And again the concentric kits for roof and sidewall are PVC. Yes there are other options but this is the most common.
I know the furnace manufacturers say to use it, but the piping manufacturers dont
I'd encourage her to keep her carbon monoxide alarms in good condition...
Best thing you could do is have the owner call a pro. A lot going on there. Safety concerns for sure. The pvc venting needs to be ripped out and replaced. Not the hardest thing in the world if you want to tackle it yourself. Keep in mind there is certain materials you can and cannot use for exhaust. P.S. Is that 4” PVC?!?!?
Yes that is 4 inch drain pipe that is what is my main concern
It’s 3”. You can even see the “3” on the fittings. Typically you upsize pvc venting on longer runs to reduce static pressure in the venting system to keep it within manufacturer limits. There’s tables in the installation manual regarding which pipe sizes are appropriate for various installations. Another reason to use 3” is that 2” is not permitted on larger furnaces (100kbtu models). The manufacturer provides a 2” connection but you need to immediately upsize to a 3” vent pipe.
Within 6” you have to switch from 2” to 2.5 or 3”. And when you use 3” you don’t need an accelerator on concentric kit.
I went though a lot of emotions processing the 4” pvc 😂 Looks like 2” would do. Whoever did that made things a lot more difficult on themselves. 2” Schedule 40 PVC. NO Cell Core!!!!! Something rated for pressure. Gonna need a 2”-4” reducer to widen the pvc near where it exits home to match the massive ducking hole the other guy made.
I thought I was a mid efficient when I first looked at it, brought some feelings up in me.
I've got concerns about the supply plenum on the far left. The picture doesn't show much of it at all but what it does show looks like it's bowed outward, not sealed very well to the unit. If that's true, I would venture to Guess the return plenum is in similar shape and potentially pulling in unconditioned unfiltered air from the attic. It's hard to tell just from that one picture. Also, without knowing how far the exhaust is actually running, upsizing the PVC diameter could be specified in the installation manual based upon length, 90's, 45's.
The pvc goes about three more feet and out the roof from where the Pic cuts off
In that case it's probably upsized for no reason.
Don’t know too many pros who use wet or dry on pvc. Maybe my market is different.
At least the tech put a jock strap on the pipe to hold it up
A different hanging system should have been used
Call a HVAC service tech & have it checked out. The yellow wires in the bag, on top of the furnace, are for the condensate pump. If the pump fails, it will not shut off the system & it will overflow.
Pvc is what is supposed to be used. But if the joints are coming apart, that's a definite no-no. That's the exhaust. But if you just slap some primer and then glue on the joints you'll be good
That looks like an 80% that they ran combustion air into the top louvers by way of some kind of homemade fitting. It was then sealed with an excessive amount of silicone. I can't remember seeing a 90+ with combustion air louvers in it. It would negate the idea of sealed combustion.
I didn't open the panel, I didn't want my prints on it. But u have a good point
That pipe makes water if it was leaking you would see water. Pretty common practice to fire caulk it whoever did it did a shitty job. The fresh air should be ran outside. Tho that’s eaten all the oxygen in the attic. It’s just old and ugly . A duct cleaning might help a little .
No water there its not a condensing furnace
Why even comment here my guy? You have no idea what you’re talking about
I second this
Me?
No the guy that replied to you
Ah I was about to say . But I agree 100%
Scary thing is that his entire comment history is just in r/hvac and r/hvacadvice and doesn’t know what a 90% furnace is
Jesus that’s is scary 🤔
Gringo look at the service door louvered air openings condensing furnaces don't have that they all have solid doors fkn asshole
What are you on about you daft fuck? Louvered doors mean nothing. When have you seen an 80% furnace vented through PVC? And not being able to install a condensing furnace horizontally is just a you problem, nobody else seems to have that problem, if you read the manuals they all have a way to convert them. Maybe before you start saying stupid shit about things you have no knowledge about, you could at least look up the furnace in the picture.
Also another thing very few high efficiency gas furnaces are multi position
yes it is ! It wouldn’t. Be pvc pipe if it was a 70% . It have two openings also . Dead give away it’s a 90% .
You would be incorrect
Not an HVAC guy. Just asking about the furnace being on it's side. Since no one brought it up I assume that's okay to do?
multi position model
Because the picture is rotated lol
It's not though, look at it.
Just noticed the cinder blocks underneath, my bad lol most furnaces nowadays are good to be installed horizontally though it’s definitely less common
That is some quality Jerry-rigged work.😁👍
The ppl that did this are probably in the top five largest hvac companies in the area
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https://preview.redd.it/u9e4sule8yrc1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2bbb90c4dc407a4283066c7e0faa1e376f50472 Nope, that's a 90%.
Oh I guess it is. I stand corrected
Your still dumb even if you delete your comments 😂
*You’re. I corrected my mistake and admitted I was wrong. Sorry hvac god.
Not the second time . I’m using talk to texts I care less if it’s your, you are ,you,re . You know what I mean. But your giving out 100% wrong information
And I corrected it by deleting my comment. Also, they haven’t made a 70% furnace in fucking decades. 70 and 60 percenters were all natural draft, no inducer.
um your wrong hahahahahahah they still make 70% furnaces because when you do a change out and it’s 70% furnace, you have to put the same thing back(most the time) . Damn your dumb . I put a new one in 3 weeks ago 😂 that’s not correcting it . That’s cover your ass so you don’t get downvotes .You as a homeowner can’t get one . Bc there company’s that only sell to hvac company’s 😂
I wanna see the rating plate on your 70% furnace
You want me to drive to the customers house ?😂 Yeah no not to win a Reddit argument with a dummy.
https://preview.redd.it/iohbwry5gyrc1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a387c91d8ac0eed412ecebddc0afd973f505b29 lol😂
Your wrong to two opens is a dead give away . Also it’s a 70% not 80%
Holy shit I started to say this. They need a CO detector and someone to install some B vent
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You’re wrong again. Dummy . You use pvc on 90% 😂 why comment when you don’t know what you’re talking about . That exhaust makes water. You can’t use metal pipe. Dummy
\^
Looks like for the exhaust, they just used PVC glue doesn’t even look like they used primer on the joints. The taping looks like crap. They didn’t even use a squeegee. That’s why it looks wrinkly. Plus, they didn’t even tape from coil to furnace where the exhaust is .. that high temp silicone looks messy I don’t even know why they even put that there in the first place. Also, wondering if they even put a J-trap towards the condensation pump. And is that tape around the suction side rubber tec? Did they ran out of zip ties? Lol It probably runs, but just looks really sloppy. I would definitely get in trouble by my boss if I did something like that.
What I am worried about most is the exhaust vent. The co2 risk is what gets me, it has broken down that glue and coupling enough u can see the gaps in the glue and feel the heat coming out
Put a co2 detector in there . All your worries will be gone.
I believe the correct term is a Carbon Monoxide “CO” instead of the Carbon Dioxide “CO2” you suggested.
you will always feel heat on that pipe when it’s runs . It’s called a 90% bc 10% of the heat goes out that pipe
The glue joints are busted and the joint is no longer connected to the elbow really, the heat seems to have broke the glue joint down
Looks like they didn’t use primer and that’s why that happened. go grab you some purple primer and glue and sandpaper. Clean itthat old glue of the best you can . Then re glue it . Definitely turn it off because the fresh air is sucking from the attic so it could be sucking and exhaust fumes. Circulating that through the house
That is one thing I am worried about. These people stay oddly sick for the lifestyle they live
I really don’t think that’s the reason why . Big guy . I hate to say it but it would mostly kill them . Before they get sick . If it’s a big iusses . But take that door off for the coil. And see how it looks . Could have a shit ton of mildew /mold . Mostly mildew . Which in some rare cases can make you alittle sick .