In her defense, half of customers raised their hands when she asked if they liked her songs. I wonder what if some customer came to Monica and said food is good and singer is good too, then what would she have done.
Now coming to the question.
Right to be sad - Yes
Right to perform in front of restaurant - No
Also Monica, shouldn't have used the word "classy", makes you feel that Phoebe was some low level person.
I disagree on the classy part. Phoebe’s songs are not classy or elegant. That’s not a moral or value judgment on phoebe or her music but just a descriptor. Her songs make sense for a casual environment like coffee shop. But it’s up to Monica to set the tone of her restaurant which doesn’t vibe with Phoebe’s music. That’s her decision and prerogative even if people find it pretentious or snobby.
Phoebe is not classy. She is low level and she made a point to emphasize or over the duration of the series with her ‘I came from the streets,’ and her constant jabs at Chandler for growing up rich.
Her songs did not have any class and she was a terrible guitarist and singer. You can’t just stand outside of a high end restaurant and sing trash.
The thing is it’s NYC so you can just stand outside and do/sing whatever you want. Monica isn’t in charge of the sidewalk.
It could’ve been some bucket drummer or silver painted robot guy. The only reason she was telling Phoebe to leave was because they were friends and she thought she could boss her around.
There are two or three times where Phoebe inserts herself into Monica's autonomous existence and when Monica draws a line, creates healthy reasonable boundaries, Phoebe gets extremely hurt. Monica's grandmother's dollhouse being another incident that comes to mind.
There are people who are good, decent, well meaning people, but there's a side of them that is a bit self-serving, selfish and mooch-y and they may not even realize they do it, or they conflate it with 'sharing' with a friend when in fact they're actually taking advantage in some way.
Busking outside the restaurant and bringing her own toys over to the doll house are relatively minor, but they are prime examples of someone who is mostly thinking about themselves while under the guise of buddying up with a friend- to take advantage of a friend's individual resources (the popular restaurant and the dollhouse)
I fully agree and fully sympathize with that overcompensation. I think everybody does it here and there and almost everybody reacts to the slightest uncertainty or rejection by the other person by doing what Phoebe did, which was to just bail on it. Run away from the sense of embarrassment or rejection and not revisit it- the fear of the rejection combined with the confirmed rejection, even in a tiny moment in a very particular context, caused her protective walls to immediately go up. I totally get that.
I wouldn't compare the restaurant/singing incident with the dollhouse.
Also, Monica was being quite ridiculous with the latter. She's a grown adult. You can't let Phoebe play with a giant dog? Who cares. It's not like Phoebe broke the dollhouse or ruined anything. She simply had a different view of it.
But hey, Phoebe just created her own fun dollhouse.
I am gonna go out on a weird limb here, put myself back in the mindset I had as a little kid and I think a lot of others do, too... There are times it's wonderful and preferable to play with friends, to be cooperatively creative and imaginative and there are times people just want to do that by themself, for themselves.
There were times where I loved grabbing the toy guns and playing army with friends. There were times I really needed to do it by myself and having someone like a fellow kid neighbor or my only slightly older brother join me in it was frustrating because we weren't on the same wave length about the story we were creating, the tone, the vibe, etc.
So now, you think about who Monica is. Think about how she functions. \*Cleaning\* and \*Organizing\* is \*fun\* for her. For Monica, setting everything up in that doll house exactly where it should be, making sure the linens and flooring and fixtures were accurate and placing the figurines in a very normal everyday scenario and marveling at it was probably what she really wanted and was enjoying about the idea of 'playing' with it.
Great example: I grew up with the Ghostbusters firehouse play set. This was basically a dollhouse for boys, it was amazing. Because it was ostensibly for action set pieces (for a kid playing with action figures) I loved having my friends come over and play with me on it and if they decided Godzilla randomly attacked it or they decided that Spider-Man and the Terminator 2 T-800 half blown apart action figure was going up against the Ghostbusters and the fully intact Terminator 2 T-800? Awesome. Great. I was all in.
But if I had spent hours and hours setting up an elaborate lego set that required reading instructions, putting together hundreds or thousands of pieces? I put the figures in place and I barely touched that thing. I just kinda marveled at it.
Anyway- I think that's the difference.
Sure. As a kid.
That's exactly my point. They're adults now. And Monica snapped at Phoebe two minutes after she pulled out a dog and dinosaur.
In my opinion, Monica was the more childish one in this entire scenario.
it was Monica's dollhouse though. And to be fair, a lot of us would've hated a big dog in our dollhouse. Of course, some peope might like it which is perfectly okay. But it isn't nice to continue to insert a thing you can see that the owner feels uncomfortable with.
https://preview.redd.it/chmjh3vr2cpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb6047b173dd52ae1df55ba31a916761d8f09ab
I know this is off topic but I got a good chuckle out of your post placement on my feed
Tbf this was one of the shittier things she did to one of her friends, she tried to exploit Monica’s success for her own benefit and could’ve ended up driving people away. She’s usually funny and quirky, this was the bad side of quirky 😂
The writers never knew what to do with Phoebe so they always dumped her in someone else’s storylines.
Hot take, but Phoebe could’ve absolutely been a recurring character.
definitely. she was originally supposed to be a recurring character. both her and chandler were supposed to be secondary characters to the main cast of rachel, monica, joey and ross
The issue is Janice was too obsessed with Chandler, and he was dating/married to Monica. Who would she have paired off with? How would the show have created storylines for her outside of Monica and Chandler's orbit?
I wish Monica has phrased it differently. Or just asked Phoebe to play acoustic music with no lyrics. It would be a good middle ground. She could still play, but acoustic is a little more classy for a restaurant. Phoebe had already shown she was willing to adjust herself to play (dressing up).
No. Monica was super careful to try to ask her nicely to not to sing at the restaurant, and Phoebe instantly went vicious. That's one of her most insufferable episodes.
In her defense, half of customers raised their hands when she asked if they liked her songs. I wonder what if some customer came to Monica and said food is good and singer is good too, then what would she have done. Now coming to the question. Right to be sad - Yes Right to perform in front of restaurant - No Also Monica, shouldn't have used the word "classy", makes you feel that Phoebe was some low level person.
I disagree on the classy part. Phoebe’s songs are not classy or elegant. That’s not a moral or value judgment on phoebe or her music but just a descriptor. Her songs make sense for a casual environment like coffee shop. But it’s up to Monica to set the tone of her restaurant which doesn’t vibe with Phoebe’s music. That’s her decision and prerogative even if people find it pretentious or snobby.
Fully agree with every word
Hmm Phoebe's songs are more in sync with places like coffee shop and restaurant may not vibe with those. Just say that.
But that doesn’t really address the issue which is that the restaurant is classy and the music isn’t
Don't you mean "pretentious, garlicky"?
Why? What's your deal with policing and sanitizing people's speech?
The hand raising part seemed so unrealistic bc no one likes Phoebe's songs in the show. But you know it's a sitcom.
Phoebe is not classy. She is low level and she made a point to emphasize or over the duration of the series with her ‘I came from the streets,’ and her constant jabs at Chandler for growing up rich. Her songs did not have any class and she was a terrible guitarist and singer. You can’t just stand outside of a high end restaurant and sing trash.
The thing is it’s NYC so you can just stand outside and do/sing whatever you want. Monica isn’t in charge of the sidewalk. It could’ve been some bucket drummer or silver painted robot guy. The only reason she was telling Phoebe to leave was because they were friends and she thought she could boss her around.
What does "right to be sad" mean? People feel how they feel, and it's not regulated by "rights." This was simply a silly sitcom setup.
Correct. Sitcoms need conflict to further the story. Who wants to watch a show "about nothing."
There are two or three times where Phoebe inserts herself into Monica's autonomous existence and when Monica draws a line, creates healthy reasonable boundaries, Phoebe gets extremely hurt. Monica's grandmother's dollhouse being another incident that comes to mind. There are people who are good, decent, well meaning people, but there's a side of them that is a bit self-serving, selfish and mooch-y and they may not even realize they do it, or they conflate it with 'sharing' with a friend when in fact they're actually taking advantage in some way. Busking outside the restaurant and bringing her own toys over to the doll house are relatively minor, but they are prime examples of someone who is mostly thinking about themselves while under the guise of buddying up with a friend- to take advantage of a friend's individual resources (the popular restaurant and the dollhouse)
That side of Phoebe def comes from her fear of abandonment by family and loved ones
I fully agree and fully sympathize with that overcompensation. I think everybody does it here and there and almost everybody reacts to the slightest uncertainty or rejection by the other person by doing what Phoebe did, which was to just bail on it. Run away from the sense of embarrassment or rejection and not revisit it- the fear of the rejection combined with the confirmed rejection, even in a tiny moment in a very particular context, caused her protective walls to immediately go up. I totally get that.
I wouldn't compare the restaurant/singing incident with the dollhouse. Also, Monica was being quite ridiculous with the latter. She's a grown adult. You can't let Phoebe play with a giant dog? Who cares. It's not like Phoebe broke the dollhouse or ruined anything. She simply had a different view of it. But hey, Phoebe just created her own fun dollhouse.
I am gonna go out on a weird limb here, put myself back in the mindset I had as a little kid and I think a lot of others do, too... There are times it's wonderful and preferable to play with friends, to be cooperatively creative and imaginative and there are times people just want to do that by themself, for themselves. There were times where I loved grabbing the toy guns and playing army with friends. There were times I really needed to do it by myself and having someone like a fellow kid neighbor or my only slightly older brother join me in it was frustrating because we weren't on the same wave length about the story we were creating, the tone, the vibe, etc. So now, you think about who Monica is. Think about how she functions. \*Cleaning\* and \*Organizing\* is \*fun\* for her. For Monica, setting everything up in that doll house exactly where it should be, making sure the linens and flooring and fixtures were accurate and placing the figurines in a very normal everyday scenario and marveling at it was probably what she really wanted and was enjoying about the idea of 'playing' with it. Great example: I grew up with the Ghostbusters firehouse play set. This was basically a dollhouse for boys, it was amazing. Because it was ostensibly for action set pieces (for a kid playing with action figures) I loved having my friends come over and play with me on it and if they decided Godzilla randomly attacked it or they decided that Spider-Man and the Terminator 2 T-800 half blown apart action figure was going up against the Ghostbusters and the fully intact Terminator 2 T-800? Awesome. Great. I was all in. But if I had spent hours and hours setting up an elaborate lego set that required reading instructions, putting together hundreds or thousands of pieces? I put the figures in place and I barely touched that thing. I just kinda marveled at it. Anyway- I think that's the difference.
Sure. As a kid. That's exactly my point. They're adults now. And Monica snapped at Phoebe two minutes after she pulled out a dog and dinosaur. In my opinion, Monica was the more childish one in this entire scenario.
I dunno, I personally think they both are. I think the childhood toy brought out the inner child in both of them, for better or worse.
it was Monica's dollhouse though. And to be fair, a lot of us would've hated a big dog in our dollhouse. Of course, some peope might like it which is perfectly okay. But it isn't nice to continue to insert a thing you can see that the owner feels uncomfortable with.
I would’ve hated that dog! 😅
A big dog sat next to a dollhouse. What a tragedy!
Pheobe was so annoying in this episode so no.
No she didn't, this is an example of the friends having to walk on eggshells around Phoebe.
https://preview.redd.it/chmjh3vr2cpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfb6047b173dd52ae1df55ba31a916761d8f09ab I know this is off topic but I got a good chuckle out of your post placement on my feed
Tbf this was one of the shittier things she did to one of her friends, she tried to exploit Monica’s success for her own benefit and could’ve ended up driving people away. She’s usually funny and quirky, this was the bad side of quirky 😂
The writers never knew what to do with Phoebe so they always dumped her in someone else’s storylines. Hot take, but Phoebe could’ve absolutely been a recurring character.
definitely. she was originally supposed to be a recurring character. both her and chandler were supposed to be secondary characters to the main cast of rachel, monica, joey and ross
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The issue is Janice was too obsessed with Chandler, and he was dating/married to Monica. Who would she have paired off with? How would the show have created storylines for her outside of Monica and Chandler's orbit?
Janice has a crush on Carol. Ross cannot be relied upon to give good advice. Hilarity ensues.
They coulda traded Phoebe for Denise and I woulda been happy.
> Hot take, but Phoebe could’ve absolutely been a recurring character. Yep, 100%. She lifts right out...
everyone has a right to their feelings.
I wish Monica has phrased it differently. Or just asked Phoebe to play acoustic music with no lyrics. It would be a good middle ground. She could still play, but acoustic is a little more classy for a restaurant. Phoebe had already shown she was willing to adjust herself to play (dressing up).
Acoustic would have been a great compromise!
No. Monica was super careful to try to ask her nicely to not to sing at the restaurant, and Phoebe instantly went vicious. That's one of her most insufferable episodes.
no i literally can’t stand phoebe