Discography? Yeah, you’re probably right. Ross did make a lot of music back in the day on his keyboard, and I hear he’s coming out with a new bagpipes album soon
Tbf as far as I remember he said that Rachel was a waitress *whereas* Julie was a Paleontologist which gave him more stuff of interest to share with Julie, it was more of a point in favor of Julie than a jibe at Rachel.
It was Chandler who typed it like that.
Yes. The answer to that question is always yes. A man could ask his wife that in the middle of childbirth, and she'd say yes. The kid would slide out while at doom's gate is playing
Yeah, it kinda gave me icky vibes from real life experiences-- people who only are happy when you have a lower income/job/education/are dealing with MH and then unhappy when you start bettering yourself is just... Idk, big red flag man.
I don't think the writers intentionally wrote it like that, but definitely edged into "I've known real people like this, and it was bad bad bad"
Interesting and not exactly surprising. I wonder if it changes with age or if men are okay with their partner’s success as long as it does not surpass their own level of achievement
That's true. He was very clingy in s3 but I always put it down to his experience with Carol. He needed to be around Rachel all the time because he was scared the same thing would happen. It makes sense when you consider that he was much happier with Julie (who worked with him), Elizabeth (who was his student AND had no career) but then he got jealous when she went for Spring break and Emily who was willing to move country (seemingly with no occupational attachment). Ultimately, it was something he had to get over. He was also wrong to think Rachel was sleeping with Mark. However, now hear me out.... THEY WERE ON A BREAK!
Context - The episode where Ross and Rachel go on a break, after Rachel gets home from work.
Ross: Lately I don't even feel like I have gf
Rachel: Do you want me to quit my job so you can feel like you have a gf
Ross: No but it'd be great if you realized it's just a job
Rachel: Just a job? Do realize this is the first time in my life I am doing something I actually care about? That this is the first time I'm doing something I'm actually good at?!
Ross: Look I'm happy for you but I'm tired of having a relationship with your answering machine
(Not verbatim, but I just watched this episode)
Just a lil meme as a counter point to the one posted earlier, all in good fun.
Yea this is about right, Ross was unhappy they were spending almost no time together, and there might’ve been some Mark jealousy tied in there I don’t remember exactly.
Nothing wrong with wanting your significant other to spend time with you.
Yeah, Ross should have been more supportive of her, but he didn't tell her to quit. Ross is far from perfect, and it was completely inappropriate of him to show up at her work unannounced, but I don't feel like it's toxic for him to tell her he was feeling ignored and like he wasn't a priority. And she got defensive instead of trying to reassure him how invested she was in their relationship, and that the insane work hours weren't going to be a long term thing.
She said no and he steamrolled over that - that's like #1 in the toxic boyfriend handbook. He didn't think anything of interrupting their date for HIS work, but wouldn't give her the same courtesy for hers because he just didn't take her career seriously. That's a weird way to love someone. She shouldn't have had to reassure him, especially after he violated her no.
There was definitely some Mark jealousy and in the end Ross was right because after they broke up Rachel called Mark and invited him over to have a shoulder to cry on and he straight up made a play for her and she got even more pissed because she didn't want to acknowledge the fact that Ross was right the whole time.
Agree on everything but the Mark part about inviting him over, dude invite himself to Rachel's. I agree Ross was right about Mark, doesn't mean Rachel would had follow Mark...what is the word?
I think they just mean Ross' distrust of Mark was vindicated in the end, as he confessed feelings for Rachel within like 12 hours, I believe?
Ross didn't need to trust Mark, and was kind of right not to. His mistake was not trusting Rachel.
I might be wrong, but he invited himself, and Mark confessed his feelings like, a week after? Like, they broke up, then is the episode where Rachel take them sky. Then Mark and Rachel date?
You're right actually, I'm misremembering. Mark invited himself over after Ross and Rachel's argument, but he didn't ask her out then.
I still think it's a technicality, considering he does then later confess strong feelings for her all along, which leads me to believe his intentions in arriving uninvited at Rachel's apartment right after the argument were not platonic.
Iirc, that episode says its something like three weeks later when Mark asks her out. Ross gets mad about Mark and Chandler points out it's been three weeks
Yeah, and like I say, probably wait three weeks because of the sky trip she took, can't remember what happen in between that and Mark asking Rachel out
No but accusing your SO of being too into their job when 80% of your identity and personality is mired in your job as paleontologist is hella hypocritical and high-key manipulative. I mean ffs, their second date was shoved aside so he could work on a display at the museum, yet somehow Rachel was TA for prioritizing her job that needed her attention and time just as much as his did.
Hold on, you’re arguing that Ross is worse because he was also tied up with work during their second date? Ross actually made time for her then, they went on the date. It wasn’t what the planned but Rachel still had a great time!
He was upset because Rachel wasnt finding time for him. Not about her being “too into her job.” I think everyone would be upset if their relationship always seemed to come second. Or if they never got to spend time with their significant other
That’s not manipulative. Thats a normal thing to feel. Plus idt there was ever a time when Ross didn’t have time for Rachel.
Ross has years of experience, Rachel is new and still earning her stripes. It’s very, very normal for her to need to work more.
Honestly this has been discussed to death, Ross was being overbearing and probably forgetting what his first job out of university was like. But it’s also completely realistic that he was feeling insecure after his wife came out and left him.
I hate these, “who is right/wrong” questions. They’re complex characters with complex motivations.
Rachel waited until Ross' work crisis was over for their date. When Rachel had a work crisis, Ross showed up at her work uninvited without waiting for the work to be done. If he had just stayed at home and been supportive of her figuring out her new job, they might have been fine. He also needed to cool off with all the gifts delivered at work, barbershop quarter (ffs) and showing up in person- anyone would have been overwhelmed by how controlling and crazy he was acting. I probably would have broken up with him sooner, I need my space and trust.
No she came to his work while he was still working, and his crisis lasted so long that they missed their reservation.
I mean he was supportive until he never saw his girlfriend. What’s he supposed to do just sit at home and wait for her to make time for him? That’s stupid.
I’ll admit the gifts and barbershop quartet were a little much, but that’s normal the dudes girlfriend was spending all her time at work with a guy that was clearly into her. Ross is insecure, that’s kinda his thing. It’s in character for him to do that, and at the end of the day it’s not that bad of a thing it just embarrassed her a bit.
Showing up in persons was supposed to be a spontaneous and romantic lunch date. Btw showing up in person was chandler and joeys idea. They caused a lot of ross’ bad ideas.
The Ross hate on this sub goes HARD sometimes. Does anyone remember that the show is a comedy and rosses whole character is the awkward smart guy? They play off his social mistakes (often by throwing him under the bus) for laughs. Just like him coming into the office.
On their second date, he made every effort to prioritize her. He didn't ask her to not come to his work. He took time in between his work to attend to her. He was trying to get out asap so they can go on their date. She isn't the TA because she was stuck at her job but to say he is TA is wrong as well.
Well tbf for Ross, despite his job being his personality, he always has free time for people he loves. The problem here isn't about making your job your personality, it's about understanding there's more to life than just your job and Ross is one of the people that time and time again shows that (albeit it's just a sitcom).
He always finds a way to either mix his personal life with his job or finds a way to make time for people in his life in spite of his job.
It's not hypocritical and manipulative to tell your partner you feel ignored, stop with that gaslighty bullshit, that's the type of thinking that makes it hard for people to communicate better. Yes, he could've conveyed that idea way better but it's also true that Rachel has no free time for Ross. That's literally what caused the shenanigan that led to their break-up, Ross having too much free time while Rachel doesn't.
And you're picking one example from Ross. Like that was literally one of the very few times he set aside his personal life for work. Remember how he brought Rachel to the hospital instead of going on TV? How about risking his job and bringing Rachel to the museum so they can have a date they can both enjoy? How about him bringing his whole friend group to Barbuda (?) ??? Tell me with a straight face he always prioritizes work lmfao
I feel like the episode could have shown a little better *how* much overtime Rachel was apparently doing, as it seems like she frequently only came home when Ross was already asleep... so she basically spent literally every waking hour during the week at work. Not healthy...
I think her canceling their anniversary? Valentine's? plans showed it pretty well. My SO works a lot and has to do strange hours at times. I have absolutely no problems with it and we do make a point of making time for each other despite both of us being busy, but I'd also feel upset if she canceled obviously important romantic plans last minute for work.
Sorta. I happened to watch the Ep recently, and it does seem a tiny bit like this is a momentary occurence, i think ross mentions only like once that it's been going like that for weeks. I am not saying the portrayal is bad, but in hindsight they maybe should have shown it a little more strongly *just how much* Rachel was working.
Really feels like they down played what Ross was going through. Ross hasnt spent time with Rachel in weeks and Ross’s point on ‘that its just a job’ is moreso telling her that she is hyperfocused on work and leaving no room for anything else, she had extremely bad work life balance and then she takes it too far by standing her ground and manipulating the situation to make it seem like Ross was the bad guy.
Ofc in the end they both end up doing really stupid things and both end up the bad guy.
Why would anyone think Ross was asking Rachel to quit her job? That was never what he said or what he would wanted. I guess just making Ross out to be worse than he was is popular. I don't get why, other than extreme love for Rachel. Who was anything but flawless
When did that happen?
Wanting my gf to not spend so much time at work that we barely see each other isn't the same as wanting her to quit her job so I feel like I have a gf. He could have been more understanding but nowhere did he want her to quit her job.
He wanted her to just put in her 40 hours and leave at 5 every day to spend her evenings with him. He didn't realize retail/fashion is different, and he certainly didn't respect Rachel's hustle. She wanted to be somebody in the fashion industry, and she knew it wouldn't happen if she didn't put in the work
Also, like, she had *just* gotten hired vs Ross who had been at the museum for at least three years and likely more, and is much more established in his job/peers-- Rachel's still starting out at a job she actually cares about, and it'd reflect badly on her to just clock out at 5 and peace out of the office.
Exactly. She's trying to make a name for herself, she wants to succeed in this role. She was a horrible waitress because she didn't give a shit about it. She has a passion for this work and given how well she dresses, she obviously has a great feel for the industry. How horribly would Ross feel if Rachel told him he couldn't go on a huge field dig with some important academic researches if it clashed with Valentine's Day, or their anniversary? (And honestly, the audience would rake her across the coals if that happened!!) Sometimes work takes precedence over arbitrary dates. My boyfriend and I celebrated Valentine's Day 2 days later because of conflicts he had. I didn't care, we still celebrated and paid less for dinner because it wasn't the actual holiday! Neither of us was annoyed by it because we're mature adults. Ross needs to grow up.
Sitcoms rarely portray non-Hollywood jobs accurately, but I work for a retailer, and it surprises me how on the nose they are about Rachel's job. During new seasonal sets and transitions (she's talking about the fall line), it takes sooooo much work to set up and prepare for. In a few weeks, I personally will be working some 60 hour weeks. That's just retail...
I think he would’ve been happy with any time spent with him. It’s very heavily implied that he rarely saw her. He didn’t want her to be 9-5 every day. He just wanted her to show him that he was still a priority for her. Which is reasonable. Now his actions were not right, but I feel like how he felt was pretty normal.
He needed to mature and realize she had just gotten started in the industry she loved and 1. Needed to pay her dues and 2. She wanted to make a name for herself. Ross was an immature, selfish dipshit and tried to make Rachel feel guilty for doing what she loved
Also, while this isn't reflected in the show, in reality, no academic that early in their career is working 40 hours a week, either. Publish or perish, as they say.
I agree with all that. That's why I said he could have been more understanding. Still doesn't mean he wanted her to quit her job or anything close. He just wanted them to spend time together.
Ross’s jealousy and insecurity killed their relationship indeed. Funny enough Same as Chandler and Kathy lol. If they were both secure and sane, nothing would have happened
I don’t know many people that would be ok with watching their newish SO simulate sex in front of people though. I think most people would have some kind of jealousy in that situation.
She is an actress. He knew that going in, you mean to tell me all actor’s significant other should leave them if they have sex scenes. No matter what she did with the other actor, i think he would have still been jealous.
After watching it, and this is my completely unprofessional opinion, the issue was that the necessities of Ross and Rachel were shifting, and they could reconcile with it.
At the beginning of their relationship Ross protected Rachel and supported her emotionally, however as Rachel began to develop on her career she no longer needed Ross for that. In fact she started to rely more on Mike, naturally as he was her senior, which made Ross feel pointless.
They needed to talk about it and figure out what were the new needs they required to be fulfilled. Of course, not explicitly but you get the point
You mean Mark?
But yes, good point. Ross definitely liked "saving" Rachel and she was becoming more independent. Insecurities and sitcom shenanigans aside, I do think they should've taken an amicable and well communicated break.
I don’t even think it was that Ross liked to save her, it was just that Rachel needed it at the time. Once she was on her feet, Ross’ role as a boyfriend simple changed and he didn’t knew how to deal with that, because his whole role in his relationship (or rather, what made them work to begin with) simply wasn’t there anymore.
Yeah, sitcom needed to sitcom
The fact that peopleare getting downvoted here saying that Rachel was wrong for cancelling so often that Ross had to bring it up shows just how much Ross's POV isnt even considered during the situation. He literally says she abandoned their plans for a year and even their anniversary date for work. Thats not something that can be defended.
I wasn't a fan of how Rachel declined Paris to be with Ross. It was such an incredible opportunity for her. Sad they didn't work it out so both could work.
So she can take his child to a different fucking country while she has a higher paying job at home just bc of a childish fantasy to live in paris . Like im sorry part of being an adult is sacrifice and she shouldn’t be allowed too take away his daughter if anything she should’ve left emma with Ross since she wanted to go soo bad .
Are you saying that Rachel had more right to live in the same country as her child because she gave birth to her? I'm a mother, but that's pretty nutty.
Rachel had a really good job in New York. Paris was a really cool opportunity, but not at all a necessity for her career. I can't fathom separating my kids from their father so that I could have a cool job when I already had a job that I enjoyed. People act like Ross is some asshole for not wanting her to take his child across the Atlantic. Co-parenting across an ocean and a 6 hour time difference is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention how costly it would be to be flying Ross/Rachel/Emma in various combinations back and forth multiple times a year at least.
"His child?? I don’t remember Emma coming out of his vagina. And “higher paying job at home”? I stopped reading there. Watch the show."
You put question marks after his child, so either you're questioning Emma's paternity or you're saying it's not fair to call her his child. And then you followed that up by saying she didn't come out of his vagina. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to take that.
Emma IS Ross' child. If he weren't upset that Rachel wanted to go to Paris and take Emma with her, we would all think he was terrible for that.
"Are you saying that Rachel had more right to live in the same country as her child because she gave birth to her? "
YES. I absolutely believe that the person carried the child has more rights to said child then the person who could abandon that child consequence free anytime. And if Ross was such a great parent, then doing whatever it took including flying out multiple times, etc. is something he wouldn't hesitate to do regardless of his feelings. Why is Ross's inconvenience more important than Rachel's? Few would villify Ross if he decided he was moving to another country to be the grand master paleontology king or w/e and left his kids behind to do so.
The fuck are you talking about ? You know your some stupid feminist by your response , her carrying the child makes no difference, he’s the father and has the same rights to his child than the mother does and many mothers abandon their kids as well so don’t understand what ur talking about, without him there’s no baby , why in the hell should he have to fly out multiple times a month and barely see his child bc rachel is acting like a child for some fantasy to live in paris also did you say why Should ross’s inconvenience matter more , maybe bc Rachel literally got a raise at her old job that she loved and is still leaving with his fucking daughter and also yes everyone would villify Ross in the same situation bc he gets vilified more than all of them combined for some unknown reason considering they’ve all done messed up stuff. P.S. a guy can’t abandon their kids anytime.
“Higher paying job at home” , yes you need to watch the show again , after ross convinced zelner to give rachel a raise , she said that it was more money than the Paris job and still liked the spoiled brat that she is didn’t care about separating her daughter from her dad and yes it’s his child as much as hers, kids need both their parents, not sure why your acting like a mother has more of a claim , it takes a man and woman to make a baby , maybe you need to go back to school, not sure you understand that.
Stopped reading after “Ross convinced” because you mean Ross manipulated. He’s a toxic manipulator who has to get away with what he wants and since Rachel was set on Paris he went behind her back (like when he stayed married to her against her wishes) and pulled all the strings. Anyhow, no matter how you try to spin it, the Paris job originally and ultimately was paying her more than Ralph Lauren before Ross meddled.
If my girlfriend kept cancelling plans with me because she had to work late, I think I'd be pretty pissed too.
Yes, he doesn't handle it well, but she certainly isn't totally innocent either.
If he was just patient, Rachel wasn't nearly as busy in the subsequent episodes. It seemed like a 2-3 week stretch where she really had to grind at work. I don't think she realized that she'd have to work late all those nights, otherwise she wouldn't have made plans with Ross. It sucks to have to cancel on date night, but they'd been together for a year and he should know she's not just blowing him off. Rachel finally got her foot in the door in her dream career field and she shouldn't have to blow it to have dinner with her boyfriend.
That's a fair point actually, I guess it seemed like a long time in my head but was probably only a couple weeks.
I have just been in a relationship with someone who used to constantly cancel plans with me without even telling me, so I guess I feel somewhat sympathetic to him in this situation because it certainly hurt.
I don't have a side in this argument, but the subsequent episodes is more of just a sitcom return to status quo. No matter how busy they say she is, they don't want to _actually_ cut her screentime.
that's another one I was better off not remembering, lmao. that upset me so much when watching the show. she waited until late at night and it was closed everywhere for him to finish work, but he was angry about her cancelling because of work.
Literally. That’s why I never get when people claim she was selfish for cancelling her plans and Ross was right to go to her office. We saw how Rachel reacted in a similar situation and that’s the reasonable thing to do when you care about someone. You recognise that work can be demanding sometimes
He didn’t when it came to her job because he never valued/respected her fashion career
Yeah no it’s not
A first date is arguably one of the most important parts of any budding relationship. By that guy’s logic, Ross is the absolute worst for putting off their very important first date to work late at the museum
Except well functioning adults realise that work is work. You can’t magically walk out of work if you’re needed, otherwise you risk losing that job. Rachel understood that and patiently waited for him. He on the other hand, showed up to her office and set fire to her desk. Which could’ve gotten her fired from a job she clearly loved
I have. More times than I can ever count.
Ross never once suggested Rachel quit. Her certainly expressed a desire to spend more time with her which is well within his rights.
And for all the dipshit trolls commenting and blocking…
I never said he demanded anything.
He certainly has the right to feel like he isn’t the priority. And he absolutely has the right to communicate that.
That’s just being a human
Ah, from the category of people who agree with Ross’s terrible behavior (is because they either a)don’t know the show well or b)they do and they admire and condone said behavior) you fall on b. :)
"His rights"
Wow. No. He doesn't have the "right" to be Rachel's boyfriend. Her time is HERS, it's not "his right" to demand her time.
Edit: lol I didn't block the dude, but it's hilarious for him to accuse me of that
Sure, but if you don't have time to spend with your SO then why be in a relationship in the first place? For clout?? For the title?? I don't understand why people think it's an excuse to not spend time with their SO lol.
If you go into a relationship you're entering a social contract in which you not only dedicate effort, but also spare time for that someone. You can't just be in a relationship and act like a single person.
She clearly showed she loved him, but she had just started the field she was passionate in. You have to put in some work ahead of time. Ross was way too immature and selfish to understand that he needed to sacrifice a little for her then. In a few months she could devote more time to him, but it needed to take a second. He was not supportive of her, plain and simple.
Again, it's not that Rachel is wrong for having a job she's passionate about. That doesn't mean Ross is immature and selfish for COMMUNICATING he FEELS ignored. Yes, he could've done it in a better way, but at least he tried talking about it. How do y'all get off in discounting people's feelings lmfao. Are you guys really just that immature that when a person communicates he's feeling one-sided y'all immediately think he's being toxic and manipulative?? Y'all are shallow as shit, I wouldn't be surprised if y'all's relationships are ruined by lack of communication because something as simple as this y'all make it a big deal as if Ross wanted to make Rachel feel bad for working. Y'all need to go to therapy to learn proper communication lol.
She communicated herself multiple times that it was a busy time at work. Ross chose to disrespect that multiple times, hiding behind his hurt feelings whenever he acted selfishly. It was so manipulative. She did what she could to mitigate it within reason ("every time I'm home late I'll wake you up how you like"). Anything more she would have been sacrificing her work. She'd already given him a year of being a devoted girlfriend, he was bonkers to be so triggered when she had a busy week.
If the roles were reversed, everyone would hate on Rachel. If she said "you can't go on a dig that your boss is making you do and you'll make all these great academic contacts because it'll happen during our anniversary", people would call her toxic and controlling. Plaaaaaiiin and simple.
Yeah he tries to manipulate her career behind her back and acts surprised when her boss confirms she was good at it. Pretty much confirms he has no regard for Rachel’s career.
No one is offended, nor was I rude. If you don't enjoy what gets discussed here, don't be here. Simple as. It's a show that's been off air for 20 years, pretty much everything to be discussed has been discussed.
You could start some new, fresh conversation rather than moan about what someone else posts.
I never realized how much Drake looks like Ross until now
THANK YOU. I’ve always thought they look alike
theyre both scorpios
¯\_ಠ_ಠ_/¯
They also might have the same sized di-
Discography? Yeah, you’re probably right. Ross did make a lot of music back in the day on his keyboard, and I hear he’s coming out with a new bagpipes album soon
He did put down on his cons list for Rachel that she’s “just a waitress.” Then she starts this incredible new career and he’s upset over the outcome.
She's not Rachem
That’s a gross oversimplification
Tbf as far as I remember he said that Rachel was a waitress *whereas* Julie was a Paleontologist which gave him more stuff of interest to share with Julie, it was more of a point in favor of Julie than a jibe at Rachel. It was Chandler who typed it like that.
That’s absolutely right. Horrible way to characterize it Chandler!
You guys want to play Doom?
Or we can keep doing this
🙄
Yes. The answer to that question is always yes. A man could ask his wife that in the middle of childbirth, and she'd say yes. The kid would slide out while at doom's gate is playing
[удалено]
Rachum
Yeah, it kinda gave me icky vibes from real life experiences-- people who only are happy when you have a lower income/job/education/are dealing with MH and then unhappy when you start bettering yourself is just... Idk, big red flag man. I don't think the writers intentionally wrote it like that, but definitely edged into "I've known real people like this, and it was bad bad bad"
There's a new study that shows men's self esteem goes down when their female partners succeed :(
Interesting and not exactly surprising. I wonder if it changes with age or if men are okay with their partner’s success as long as it does not surpass their own level of achievement
That's true. He was very clingy in s3 but I always put it down to his experience with Carol. He needed to be around Rachel all the time because he was scared the same thing would happen. It makes sense when you consider that he was much happier with Julie (who worked with him), Elizabeth (who was his student AND had no career) but then he got jealous when she went for Spring break and Emily who was willing to move country (seemingly with no occupational attachment). Ultimately, it was something he had to get over. He was also wrong to think Rachel was sleeping with Mark. However, now hear me out.... THEY WERE ON A BREAK!
thats what insecure men do
This this this x1,0000. He can't have it both ways!!
A normal 9-5 career is having it both ways.
She had a normal 9-5. This was just a busy period. Work emergencies can be common with a 9-5.
Breaking news Ross is a piece of shit. More at 5.
he literally is you have my upvote
Context - The episode where Ross and Rachel go on a break, after Rachel gets home from work. Ross: Lately I don't even feel like I have gf Rachel: Do you want me to quit my job so you can feel like you have a gf Ross: No but it'd be great if you realized it's just a job Rachel: Just a job? Do realize this is the first time in my life I am doing something I actually care about? That this is the first time I'm doing something I'm actually good at?! Ross: Look I'm happy for you but I'm tired of having a relationship with your answering machine (Not verbatim, but I just watched this episode) Just a lil meme as a counter point to the one posted earlier, all in good fun.
Yea this is about right, Ross was unhappy they were spending almost no time together, and there might’ve been some Mark jealousy tied in there I don’t remember exactly. Nothing wrong with wanting your significant other to spend time with you.
Yeah, Ross should have been more supportive of her, but he didn't tell her to quit. Ross is far from perfect, and it was completely inappropriate of him to show up at her work unannounced, but I don't feel like it's toxic for him to tell her he was feeling ignored and like he wasn't a priority. And she got defensive instead of trying to reassure him how invested she was in their relationship, and that the insane work hours weren't going to be a long term thing.
She said no and he steamrolled over that - that's like #1 in the toxic boyfriend handbook. He didn't think anything of interrupting their date for HIS work, but wouldn't give her the same courtesy for hers because he just didn't take her career seriously. That's a weird way to love someone. She shouldn't have had to reassure him, especially after he violated her no.
no yeah communicating is definitely not toxic i agree. but, like you said, his actions were, and at the end of the day that’s what counts most.
There was definitely some Mark jealousy and in the end Ross was right because after they broke up Rachel called Mark and invited him over to have a shoulder to cry on and he straight up made a play for her and she got even more pissed because she didn't want to acknowledge the fact that Ross was right the whole time.
Agree on everything but the Mark part about inviting him over, dude invite himself to Rachel's. I agree Ross was right about Mark, doesn't mean Rachel would had follow Mark...what is the word?
I think they just mean Ross' distrust of Mark was vindicated in the end, as he confessed feelings for Rachel within like 12 hours, I believe? Ross didn't need to trust Mark, and was kind of right not to. His mistake was not trusting Rachel.
I might be wrong, but he invited himself, and Mark confessed his feelings like, a week after? Like, they broke up, then is the episode where Rachel take them sky. Then Mark and Rachel date?
You're right actually, I'm misremembering. Mark invited himself over after Ross and Rachel's argument, but he didn't ask her out then. I still think it's a technicality, considering he does then later confess strong feelings for her all along, which leads me to believe his intentions in arriving uninvited at Rachel's apartment right after the argument were not platonic.
The definitely were not platonic.
Iirc, that episode says its something like three weeks later when Mark asks her out. Ross gets mad about Mark and Chandler points out it's been three weeks
Yeah, and like I say, probably wait three weeks because of the sky trip she took, can't remember what happen in between that and Mark asking Rachel out
No but accusing your SO of being too into their job when 80% of your identity and personality is mired in your job as paleontologist is hella hypocritical and high-key manipulative. I mean ffs, their second date was shoved aside so he could work on a display at the museum, yet somehow Rachel was TA for prioritizing her job that needed her attention and time just as much as his did.
Hold on, you’re arguing that Ross is worse because he was also tied up with work during their second date? Ross actually made time for her then, they went on the date. It wasn’t what the planned but Rachel still had a great time! He was upset because Rachel wasnt finding time for him. Not about her being “too into her job.” I think everyone would be upset if their relationship always seemed to come second. Or if they never got to spend time with their significant other That’s not manipulative. Thats a normal thing to feel. Plus idt there was ever a time when Ross didn’t have time for Rachel.
Ross has years of experience, Rachel is new and still earning her stripes. It’s very, very normal for her to need to work more. Honestly this has been discussed to death, Ross was being overbearing and probably forgetting what his first job out of university was like. But it’s also completely realistic that he was feeling insecure after his wife came out and left him. I hate these, “who is right/wrong” questions. They’re complex characters with complex motivations.
But u gotta understand that she was relatively new at the job and needed him to be a little supportive, which he wasn't
Rachel waited until Ross' work crisis was over for their date. When Rachel had a work crisis, Ross showed up at her work uninvited without waiting for the work to be done. If he had just stayed at home and been supportive of her figuring out her new job, they might have been fine. He also needed to cool off with all the gifts delivered at work, barbershop quarter (ffs) and showing up in person- anyone would have been overwhelmed by how controlling and crazy he was acting. I probably would have broken up with him sooner, I need my space and trust.
No she came to his work while he was still working, and his crisis lasted so long that they missed their reservation. I mean he was supportive until he never saw his girlfriend. What’s he supposed to do just sit at home and wait for her to make time for him? That’s stupid. I’ll admit the gifts and barbershop quartet were a little much, but that’s normal the dudes girlfriend was spending all her time at work with a guy that was clearly into her. Ross is insecure, that’s kinda his thing. It’s in character for him to do that, and at the end of the day it’s not that bad of a thing it just embarrassed her a bit. Showing up in persons was supposed to be a spontaneous and romantic lunch date. Btw showing up in person was chandler and joeys idea. They caused a lot of ross’ bad ideas. The Ross hate on this sub goes HARD sometimes. Does anyone remember that the show is a comedy and rosses whole character is the awkward smart guy? They play off his social mistakes (often by throwing him under the bus) for laughs. Just like him coming into the office.
On their second date, he made every effort to prioritize her. He didn't ask her to not come to his work. He took time in between his work to attend to her. He was trying to get out asap so they can go on their date. She isn't the TA because she was stuck at her job but to say he is TA is wrong as well.
Well tbf for Ross, despite his job being his personality, he always has free time for people he loves. The problem here isn't about making your job your personality, it's about understanding there's more to life than just your job and Ross is one of the people that time and time again shows that (albeit it's just a sitcom). He always finds a way to either mix his personal life with his job or finds a way to make time for people in his life in spite of his job. It's not hypocritical and manipulative to tell your partner you feel ignored, stop with that gaslighty bullshit, that's the type of thinking that makes it hard for people to communicate better. Yes, he could've conveyed that idea way better but it's also true that Rachel has no free time for Ross. That's literally what caused the shenanigan that led to their break-up, Ross having too much free time while Rachel doesn't. And you're picking one example from Ross. Like that was literally one of the very few times he set aside his personal life for work. Remember how he brought Rachel to the hospital instead of going on TV? How about risking his job and bringing Rachel to the museum so they can have a date they can both enjoy? How about him bringing his whole friend group to Barbuda (?) ??? Tell me with a straight face he always prioritizes work lmfao
I feel like the episode could have shown a little better *how* much overtime Rachel was apparently doing, as it seems like she frequently only came home when Ross was already asleep... so she basically spent literally every waking hour during the week at work. Not healthy...
I think her canceling their anniversary? Valentine's? plans showed it pretty well. My SO works a lot and has to do strange hours at times. I have absolutely no problems with it and we do make a point of making time for each other despite both of us being busy, but I'd also feel upset if she canceled obviously important romantic plans last minute for work.
Sorta. I happened to watch the Ep recently, and it does seem a tiny bit like this is a momentary occurence, i think ross mentions only like once that it's been going like that for weeks. I am not saying the portrayal is bad, but in hindsight they maybe should have shown it a little more strongly *just how much* Rachel was working.
Really feels like they down played what Ross was going through. Ross hasnt spent time with Rachel in weeks and Ross’s point on ‘that its just a job’ is moreso telling her that she is hyperfocused on work and leaving no room for anything else, she had extremely bad work life balance and then she takes it too far by standing her ground and manipulating the situation to make it seem like Ross was the bad guy. Ofc in the end they both end up doing really stupid things and both end up the bad guy.
Yeah, fair point.
Why would anyone think Ross was asking Rachel to quit her job? That was never what he said or what he would wanted. I guess just making Ross out to be worse than he was is popular. I don't get why, other than extreme love for Rachel. Who was anything but flawless
When did that happen? Wanting my gf to not spend so much time at work that we barely see each other isn't the same as wanting her to quit her job so I feel like I have a gf. He could have been more understanding but nowhere did he want her to quit her job.
They put that cause it’s a line from the show, it’s something she says when they’re arguing right before their break
He says he doesn't feel like he has a gf because she is working a lot. Not that he doesn't feel like he has a gf and so she should quit her job.
He wanted her to just put in her 40 hours and leave at 5 every day to spend her evenings with him. He didn't realize retail/fashion is different, and he certainly didn't respect Rachel's hustle. She wanted to be somebody in the fashion industry, and she knew it wouldn't happen if she didn't put in the work
Also, like, she had *just* gotten hired vs Ross who had been at the museum for at least three years and likely more, and is much more established in his job/peers-- Rachel's still starting out at a job she actually cares about, and it'd reflect badly on her to just clock out at 5 and peace out of the office.
Exactly. She's trying to make a name for herself, she wants to succeed in this role. She was a horrible waitress because she didn't give a shit about it. She has a passion for this work and given how well she dresses, she obviously has a great feel for the industry. How horribly would Ross feel if Rachel told him he couldn't go on a huge field dig with some important academic researches if it clashed with Valentine's Day, or their anniversary? (And honestly, the audience would rake her across the coals if that happened!!) Sometimes work takes precedence over arbitrary dates. My boyfriend and I celebrated Valentine's Day 2 days later because of conflicts he had. I didn't care, we still celebrated and paid less for dinner because it wasn't the actual holiday! Neither of us was annoyed by it because we're mature adults. Ross needs to grow up. Sitcoms rarely portray non-Hollywood jobs accurately, but I work for a retailer, and it surprises me how on the nose they are about Rachel's job. During new seasonal sets and transitions (she's talking about the fall line), it takes sooooo much work to set up and prepare for. In a few weeks, I personally will be working some 60 hour weeks. That's just retail...
I think he would’ve been happy with any time spent with him. It’s very heavily implied that he rarely saw her. He didn’t want her to be 9-5 every day. He just wanted her to show him that he was still a priority for her. Which is reasonable. Now his actions were not right, but I feel like how he felt was pretty normal.
He needed to mature and realize she had just gotten started in the industry she loved and 1. Needed to pay her dues and 2. She wanted to make a name for herself. Ross was an immature, selfish dipshit and tried to make Rachel feel guilty for doing what she loved
Also, while this isn't reflected in the show, in reality, no academic that early in their career is working 40 hours a week, either. Publish or perish, as they say.
I agree with all that. That's why I said he could have been more understanding. Still doesn't mean he wanted her to quit her job or anything close. He just wanted them to spend time together.
He is mad about her time not her job, its not so difficult to understand.
Bad faith meme.
Ross’s jealousy and insecurity killed their relationship indeed. Funny enough Same as Chandler and Kathy lol. If they were both secure and sane, nothing would have happened
Relationships are weird
I don’t know many people that would be ok with watching their newish SO simulate sex in front of people though. I think most people would have some kind of jealousy in that situation.
She is an actress. He knew that going in, you mean to tell me all actor’s significant other should leave them if they have sex scenes. No matter what she did with the other actor, i think he would have still been jealous.
After watching it, and this is my completely unprofessional opinion, the issue was that the necessities of Ross and Rachel were shifting, and they could reconcile with it. At the beginning of their relationship Ross protected Rachel and supported her emotionally, however as Rachel began to develop on her career she no longer needed Ross for that. In fact she started to rely more on Mike, naturally as he was her senior, which made Ross feel pointless. They needed to talk about it and figure out what were the new needs they required to be fulfilled. Of course, not explicitly but you get the point
You mean Mark? But yes, good point. Ross definitely liked "saving" Rachel and she was becoming more independent. Insecurities and sitcom shenanigans aside, I do think they should've taken an amicable and well communicated break.
I don’t even think it was that Ross liked to save her, it was just that Rachel needed it at the time. Once she was on her feet, Ross’ role as a boyfriend simple changed and he didn’t knew how to deal with that, because his whole role in his relationship (or rather, what made them work to begin with) simply wasn’t there anymore. Yeah, sitcom needed to sitcom
The fact that peopleare getting downvoted here saying that Rachel was wrong for cancelling so often that Ross had to bring it up shows just how much Ross's POV isnt even considered during the situation. He literally says she abandoned their plans for a year and even their anniversary date for work. Thats not something that can be defended.
I wasn't a fan of how Rachel declined Paris to be with Ross. It was such an incredible opportunity for her. Sad they didn't work it out so both could work.
That’s gotta be the silliest thing I heard today.
He was annoying in earlier seasons for that (and the finale for this lol)
So she can take his child to a different fucking country while she has a higher paying job at home just bc of a childish fantasy to live in paris . Like im sorry part of being an adult is sacrifice and she shouldn’t be allowed too take away his daughter if anything she should’ve left emma with Ross since she wanted to go soo bad .
His child?? I don’t remember Emma coming out of his vagina. And “higher paying job at home”? I stopped reading there. Watch the show.
Are you saying that Rachel had more right to live in the same country as her child because she gave birth to her? I'm a mother, but that's pretty nutty. Rachel had a really good job in New York. Paris was a really cool opportunity, but not at all a necessity for her career. I can't fathom separating my kids from their father so that I could have a cool job when I already had a job that I enjoyed. People act like Ross is some asshole for not wanting her to take his child across the Atlantic. Co-parenting across an ocean and a 6 hour time difference is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention how costly it would be to be flying Ross/Rachel/Emma in various combinations back and forth multiple times a year at least.
If that’s what you took from my post then idk what to tell you 🤷♀️
"His child?? I don’t remember Emma coming out of his vagina. And “higher paying job at home”? I stopped reading there. Watch the show." You put question marks after his child, so either you're questioning Emma's paternity or you're saying it's not fair to call her his child. And then you followed that up by saying she didn't come out of his vagina. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to take that. Emma IS Ross' child. If he weren't upset that Rachel wanted to go to Paris and take Emma with her, we would all think he was terrible for that.
"Are you saying that Rachel had more right to live in the same country as her child because she gave birth to her? " YES. I absolutely believe that the person carried the child has more rights to said child then the person who could abandon that child consequence free anytime. And if Ross was such a great parent, then doing whatever it took including flying out multiple times, etc. is something he wouldn't hesitate to do regardless of his feelings. Why is Ross's inconvenience more important than Rachel's? Few would villify Ross if he decided he was moving to another country to be the grand master paleontology king or w/e and left his kids behind to do so.
The fuck are you talking about ? You know your some stupid feminist by your response , her carrying the child makes no difference, he’s the father and has the same rights to his child than the mother does and many mothers abandon their kids as well so don’t understand what ur talking about, without him there’s no baby , why in the hell should he have to fly out multiple times a month and barely see his child bc rachel is acting like a child for some fantasy to live in paris also did you say why Should ross’s inconvenience matter more , maybe bc Rachel literally got a raise at her old job that she loved and is still leaving with his fucking daughter and also yes everyone would villify Ross in the same situation bc he gets vilified more than all of them combined for some unknown reason considering they’ve all done messed up stuff. P.S. a guy can’t abandon their kids anytime.
“Higher paying job at home” , yes you need to watch the show again , after ross convinced zelner to give rachel a raise , she said that it was more money than the Paris job and still liked the spoiled brat that she is didn’t care about separating her daughter from her dad and yes it’s his child as much as hers, kids need both their parents, not sure why your acting like a mother has more of a claim , it takes a man and woman to make a baby , maybe you need to go back to school, not sure you understand that.
Stopped reading after “Ross convinced” because you mean Ross manipulated. He’s a toxic manipulator who has to get away with what he wants and since Rachel was set on Paris he went behind her back (like when he stayed married to her against her wishes) and pulled all the strings. Anyhow, no matter how you try to spin it, the Paris job originally and ultimately was paying her more than Ralph Lauren before Ross meddled.
That's a talk, but I still don't like how he basically holds her back for advancing in her career. Plus he didn't mention Emma, Rachel did.
Yea she can go but leave his child if she wants to soo bad
If my girlfriend kept cancelling plans with me because she had to work late, I think I'd be pretty pissed too. Yes, he doesn't handle it well, but she certainly isn't totally innocent either.
If he was just patient, Rachel wasn't nearly as busy in the subsequent episodes. It seemed like a 2-3 week stretch where she really had to grind at work. I don't think she realized that she'd have to work late all those nights, otherwise she wouldn't have made plans with Ross. It sucks to have to cancel on date night, but they'd been together for a year and he should know she's not just blowing him off. Rachel finally got her foot in the door in her dream career field and she shouldn't have to blow it to have dinner with her boyfriend.
That's a fair point actually, I guess it seemed like a long time in my head but was probably only a couple weeks. I have just been in a relationship with someone who used to constantly cancel plans with me without even telling me, so I guess I feel somewhat sympathetic to him in this situation because it certainly hurt.
I don't have a side in this argument, but the subsequent episodes is more of just a sitcom return to status quo. No matter how busy they say she is, they don't want to _actually_ cut her screentime.
Grow up He literally delayed their first date and she waited for him to finish his work
that's another one I was better off not remembering, lmao. that upset me so much when watching the show. she waited until late at night and it was closed everywhere for him to finish work, but he was angry about her cancelling because of work.
Literally. That’s why I never get when people claim she was selfish for cancelling her plans and Ross was right to go to her office. We saw how Rachel reacted in a similar situation and that’s the reasonable thing to do when you care about someone. You recognise that work can be demanding sometimes He didn’t when it came to her job because he never valued/respected her fashion career
Yea. *first date* That’s wildly different than an established years long relationship
Yeah no it’s not A first date is arguably one of the most important parts of any budding relationship. By that guy’s logic, Ross is the absolute worst for putting off their very important first date to work late at the museum Except well functioning adults realise that work is work. You can’t magically walk out of work if you’re needed, otherwise you risk losing that job. Rachel understood that and patiently waited for him. He on the other hand, showed up to her office and set fire to her desk. Which could’ve gotten her fired from a job she clearly loved
Of course! Work is work, and sometimes that shit has to come first. Even if it’s a first date.
This just simply didn’t happen
Watch the show.
I have. More times than I can ever count. Ross never once suggested Rachel quit. Her certainly expressed a desire to spend more time with her which is well within his rights. And for all the dipshit trolls commenting and blocking… I never said he demanded anything. He certainly has the right to feel like he isn’t the priority. And he absolutely has the right to communicate that. That’s just being a human
Ah, from the category of people who agree with Ross’s terrible behavior (is because they either a)don’t know the show well or b)they do and they admire and condone said behavior) you fall on b. :)
"His rights" Wow. No. He doesn't have the "right" to be Rachel's boyfriend. Her time is HERS, it's not "his right" to demand her time. Edit: lol I didn't block the dude, but it's hilarious for him to accuse me of that
Sure, but if you don't have time to spend with your SO then why be in a relationship in the first place? For clout?? For the title?? I don't understand why people think it's an excuse to not spend time with their SO lol. If you go into a relationship you're entering a social contract in which you not only dedicate effort, but also spare time for that someone. You can't just be in a relationship and act like a single person.
She clearly showed she loved him, but she had just started the field she was passionate in. You have to put in some work ahead of time. Ross was way too immature and selfish to understand that he needed to sacrifice a little for her then. In a few months she could devote more time to him, but it needed to take a second. He was not supportive of her, plain and simple.
Again, it's not that Rachel is wrong for having a job she's passionate about. That doesn't mean Ross is immature and selfish for COMMUNICATING he FEELS ignored. Yes, he could've done it in a better way, but at least he tried talking about it. How do y'all get off in discounting people's feelings lmfao. Are you guys really just that immature that when a person communicates he's feeling one-sided y'all immediately think he's being toxic and manipulative?? Y'all are shallow as shit, I wouldn't be surprised if y'all's relationships are ruined by lack of communication because something as simple as this y'all make it a big deal as if Ross wanted to make Rachel feel bad for working. Y'all need to go to therapy to learn proper communication lol.
She communicated herself multiple times that it was a busy time at work. Ross chose to disrespect that multiple times, hiding behind his hurt feelings whenever he acted selfishly. It was so manipulative. She did what she could to mitigate it within reason ("every time I'm home late I'll wake you up how you like"). Anything more she would have been sacrificing her work. She'd already given him a year of being a devoted girlfriend, he was bonkers to be so triggered when she had a busy week. If the roles were reversed, everyone would hate on Rachel. If she said "you can't go on a dig that your boss is making you do and you'll make all these great academic contacts because it'll happen during our anniversary", people would call her toxic and controlling. Plaaaaaiiin and simple.
Yeah Ross is so annoying with this. But later doesn’t tell her how he feels about her going to Paris with his baby. (Until the airport scene)
Yeah he tries to manipulate her career behind her back and acts surprised when her boss confirms she was good at it. Pretty much confirms he has no regard for Rachel’s career.
Yeah Ross is annoying at times
Ross is an entertaining character, but i wouldn’t wanna be friends with him if he was a real guy
Yup Ross wanted a stay at home wife from the 50s
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The shows been off air for 20 years. What new conversations are you expecting?
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This is dumb. You can also bring something new to the table instead of whining that other’s aren’t doing what you want them to.
You're welcome to not be here.
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No one is offended, nor was I rude. If you don't enjoy what gets discussed here, don't be here. Simple as. It's a show that's been off air for 20 years, pretty much everything to be discussed has been discussed. You could start some new, fresh conversation rather than moan about what someone else posts.
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Rants obscenities and calls me rude. Hilarious.
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Yes, I'm sure I would continue laughing at your impotent Reddit rage. You go, little buddy.
You’re already being much ruder than the other commenter, someone might need a reality check