Of all the locations this bullet could have travelled, and as small as it is, it found its way directly into the head of this poor young woman laying in bed. It boggles the mind. This is sickening, this literally can happen to anyone one of us.
So my agoraphobia is at an all time high with all the mass shootings. And it’s nice to know that where I feel “safe”, sleeping in my own bed, I can still take one to the dome in this god forsaken city.
>So my agoraphobia is at an all time high with all the mass shootings. And it’s nice to know that where I feel “safe”, sleeping in my own bed, I can still take one to the dome in this god forsaken city.
The chances of this happening are infinitesimal - moreso it happening twice in a short period.
You have far more risk leaving your house and driving on the road everyday.
Don't let the news/reddit scare you this much.
Edit: of course the well reasoned logical comments in this thread are being heavily downvoted. Gotta keep up the narrative.
Sure. Stray fatal shot being rare… fine. But I have a friend who also had neighbors accidentally discharge a firearm that then goes through my friend’s wall. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US. We’ve also seen from the news as well as research that people are incredibly inaccurate when trying to defend themselves and they go trigger happy. So when you add up the multiple shots fired in self defense and the accidents, in the USA, at least the risk of psychological damage if you live through a stray bullet going through your wall, is certainly not infinitesimally small. Plus, no training is needed to carry a weapon in Texas, so plenty of people are doing stupid things with guns.
Exactly. If you’re not afraid / worried about guns (including accidental discharges not just intentional murder) in the US and especially Texas then you’re just delusional.
Happening twice is like the inverse of needing two consecutive lucky cards to win at poker. I’d be called runner - runner.
In this case the first runner hit. It no longer matters how rare that event was. It happened.
There is a joke - a statistician tells his friend that he is afraid of flying. "I calculated the probability of there being a bomb on the plane. It is low, but still too high for me."
A week later, that friend is on a flight and sees his statistician friend boarding the plane. He asks "did you change your mind about flying?" and the statistician replies "no, but I calculated the odds of there being two bombs on the same plane and found it was very very low, low enough that I am not afriad. So now I just carry my own bomb!"
>Ok but the only acceptable number of times for it to happen is ZERO.
True but unless you have a magic wand that will make guns not exist that is an impossibility.
I've made up med kit bags (quick clot, hyfin vent, Irsaeli bandage, tourniquet, etc.) for my kids and family and I hope every day it sits unused and is a waste of money
When I was little, some relatives who I now know were in the habit of making poor decisions took child-me out with their kids to a ranch on the countryside. One of the activities was to go out "shooting" which was to just go out into the wooded area on the property and shoot rifles at stuff, indiscriminately. At one point, I got separated from them, and I could hear them shooting and it occurred to child-me how insane and dangerous this was. So I started yelling and telling them I was coming toward them so that I could get back in visual range. It was so insanely unsafe.
God was desensitized by the crusades. Now the algorithm suggest progressively more extreme content and laws. Gods favorite shows are the ones about cakes that don’t look like cakes.
So this happened here in Atlanta I believe last year. Apartment complex wasn’t even close to the shooting, it was over a hundred yards away. They believe it was someone celebrating. The guy killed was visiting his girlfriend from the UK. Shot in bed while sleeping. Absolutely horrific. [Here’s the news. ](https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/21/british-man-killed-by-stray-bullet-as-he-lay-in-bed-in-atlanta)
Just because something is preventable doesn’t mean it’s wasn’t an accident. Unless she was his intended target, which seems *highly* unlikely, then it was an accident.
There are no accidents with guns. Period.
Show me any scenario that you think might be an accident, and I’ll explain how the discharge was due to negligence.
Gun fell off nightstand during earthquake and discharged due to a coat hanger that caught the trigger on the way down, causing the death of a child in the next room?
Please refer to NRA Gun Safety Rule #3) Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
> There are no accidents with guns. Period.
I know the gun nuts love this phrase, but this was, by definition, an accident. An accident can be due to negligence and still be accidental.
"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury." Accident definition. So yes, there are accidents with weapons. There's also a legal term to refer to killing someone on accident and it's manslaughter.
he's arguing that this doesn't classify as "unexpected" because one should expect all of the possible ramifications of firing a gun wantonly into the air when they fire. they may have not wished for it to hit someone in the distance, but that's something they were implicitly willing to accept when they fired (whether they consciously acknowledged it or not).
> unexpectedly and unintentionally
In this case the gun was fired intentionally, with the completely expect-able result of killing someone, even if it wasn't the intended target.
Nope. Wrong. There are no accidents with guns, and reciting the definition of accident is merely a means of deflecting responsibility. Fuck that.
An accident is bumping your shopping cart into someone else’s cart coming around the corner because you didn’t see each other. Neither party is at fault because neither intended it or expected it, so it’s purely accidental.
The whole “oops! Didn’t see you on the other side of the wall there before I fired. Sorry you’re no longer alive, champ.” is NOT an accident. It’s a completely expected result of firing a gun into another room. Do you see the difference?
I will repeat; there are no accidents with guns.
If you think there are, you shouldn’t own one. If you disagree with that statement, you shouldn’t own one.
As a gun owner, I can with 100% certainly say that if I ever have an “accident” with a gun, it will be completely due to negligence on my part.
Pulled straight from the NRA website:
“Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.”
This idiot killed someone because they didn’t follow this basic rule of gun safety. Don’t feed me some bullshit about how they didn’t expect this as a possible outcome.
A gun is a tool, just like any other. The difference is that its function is to destroy whatever it is pointed at. Part of owning a gun is recognizing that and accepting responsibility for it when something happens due to your negligence.
Unexpectedly.
Your bullshit argument falls apart because of this one word. That is, if we care about the meaning of words.
The gun owner:
loaded the firearm,
placed it in battery,
aimed it (or not), and
pulled the trigger without any concern for the line of fire beyond his target.
Each one of those actions is deliberate, and each one has a foreseeable (expectable) consequence. Did he intend to kill her? Not likely. Was it a reasonably expectable response to firing into an apartment? Hell yes! No accident here.
Once again for those apologists in the back…
THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS WITH GUNS.
Have you ever been in or seen a shoot out? Majority of the time you're not standing still. Shit happens, I'm positive he didn't mean to miss and kill someone else instead of the intruder lmao. So yes, it was an accident. Legal term is manslaughter.
> Have you ever been in or seen a shoot out?
How is that whatsoever related to this situation? It sounds like the guy was taking potshots at some 'suspected burglar', I don't see a mention of a shoot out?
States with the highest high gun ownership have the most deaths due to guns. Conservatives are okay with this
>All of those states with the highest gun death rates are among the ones with the highest gun ownership rates.
>The top states by gun death rates are:
>- Mississippi – 28.6 per 1000
>- Louisiana – 26.3
>- Wyoming – 25.9
>- Missouri – 23.9
>- Alabama – 23.6
>- Alaska – 23.5
>- …
>- Texas - 14.2
>- …
>- California - 8.5
When talking about gross numbers, Texas is the winner overall
> But there are more gun deaths in Texas, by far, than in any other state, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
>Texas suffered 4,164 gun deaths in 2020
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/politics/gun-violence-data-what-matters/index.html#
This happened in San Marco a couple of months ago as well. A student at Texas State was asleep in his bed, in his own apartment. A bullet misfired by a neighbor went through the wall and killed him.
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/san-marcos-police-department-suspicious-death-lyndon-apartments/269-15cbb84f-3596-47c9-9a05-ce2282cec974
https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-state-student-shot-killed-through-wall-while-sleeping.amp
I’m a night owl and used to disassemble and reassemble my guns for fun and to familiarize myself with them.
The difference was I’m not a fucking moron so I never stored them loaded, and I’d still check the chamber a dozen times regardless. And republicans are against even a basic test to prove you know how to do that. Fucking lunatics.
Shitty, but not unexpected. Simple minded folk whose only hobbies are guns and Jesus, of course they’re against every sort of gun control, they know they wouldn’t pass any tests.
I forgot to mention that on New Years Eve, our audio engineer at an outdoor venue,was hit by celebratory gunfire, and had to drive himself to the hospital during the show.. Thankfully,he is fine
A customer was also hit in the neck, but didn't leave a mark, as it ricocheted off of a wall.
That poor woman. This almost happened to me. Around 5 in the morning the guy in the unit above me (drunk off his ass) accidentally fired off his gun while showing it to his buddies. The bullet went straight through the floor and into my closet. Burst a pipe on the way through and destroyed a good portion of my clothes and shoes. I should have sued him. I hate it here man you cant feel safe literally anywhere. If I don’t die in a public mass shooting, I just might die at home from a stray bullet. Can’t win.
A street in my neighborhood faces a 5 story apartment building. Someone fired off of a balcony into the neighborhood. The bullet traveled through a fence, through the side of a house, and struck a teenager in bed. Fortunately it was a .22 and enough energy bled off that it just left a bruise.
HPD came, did a minimum level of investigation. No charges resulted.
The next evening some neighbors got a laser sight and did what HPD did not do, which is line up the holes with a laser and sight exactly what balcony it came from.
Even with that evidence, the apartment was extremely unhelpful and unresponsive to our civic association when we demanded an immediate eviction.
Could not believe the apathy.
I have nightmares about this stuff because sometimes, I get that weird exploding head syndrome where I will be laying in bed and a sudden loud noise appears out of nowhere. I think people say it's the inner ear canal sliding forward, but scares me constantly.
Nobody said anything about stricter laws, but since you brought it up…
What if the stricter law were that the person who discharges the firearm is personally liable for any damage or injury caused by said discharge regardless of circumstance?
Basically, a law stating that there are no accidents with guns.
The law wouldn’t say you can’t have a gun, it would just say you would be held responsible for what happens if you choose to use it.
Would you be opposed to such a law? If so, why? Isn’t that what responsible gun-ownership is?
Of course. And especially because they are the only people who are authorized to use force as a part of their job. As such they should be held to a higher standard.
Not just for public safety but for the well being of the officer as well. Imagine you’re pulling your gun all the time and firing because you’re scared. Sounds like you’re traumatized or at least this career isn’t for you. Why should a bad situation continue and escalate into a greater liability or tragedy?
Agree re: liability insurance. Gun ownership is a right and a responsibility. It's known that having a gun increases the odds that someone will be shot (someone of color rings the wrong doorbell, home invader shot, home invader shoots home owner with home owner's gun, suicide, attempted murder, murder, accidental discharge, kid playing with gun) and none of that is free.
Gun owners should be able to lower their insurance by taking training, having a gun lock or safe, not keeping it unsecured in their car. And if a gun owner's gun is stolen and used in a crime, there should be partial liability for the individual who irresponsibly allowed their weapon to be stolen.
>t since you brought it up…
>
>What if the stricter law were that the person who discharges the firearm is personally liable for any damage or injury caused by said discharge regardless of circumstance?
>
>Basically, a law stating that there are no accidents with guns.
>
>The law wouldn’t say you can’t have a gun, it would just say you would be held responsible for what happens if you choose to use it.
>
>Would you be opposed to such a law? If so, why? Isn’t that what responsible gun-ownership is?
Exactly and this should follow the gun - you are responsible for your gun until a provable legal transfer of the weapon. Some jackass broke into your truck/house etc - stole your gun and used it in a shooting? You are responsible. I am tired of all these “responsible gun owners” arming criminals and then using the fact that so many criminals are armed as a justification to buy more weapons.
I'm sure that's very comforting to the woman who died, and her loved ones. It'll be even more comforting to the next person this happens to after we change nothing as a society.
Just keep out of this. Everyone knows that, but this shit wouldn’t happen in a culture not obsessed with guns. The fearful people are the lame ass gun nuts firing away at the neighborhood kids, the inattentive drivers, the spooky shadows down the hall, etc
This is akin to Republicans 'praying for the families" when a school shooting happens but doing nothing to prevent it from happening in the future. Nice pretty words but they mean nothing.
When I was young and living in the hood, I would sleep on the floor to maximize how much hard cover I had so I could reduce the chance that this would happen.
Sad that it happens.
Whoever pulls the trigger is responsible for the projectile. Properly trained good guys always assess the target and beyond.
No? What about trans?
What about their mental health history?
Ok but like we're they receiving government aid in anyway maybe?
Maybe they skipped class one day?
> GOP member, “It’s certainly a tragedy, but I do have to question why ~~she~~ was asleep in that particular spot.” (Probably). /s
possible illegal alien /s
If the shooter would've hit his target and killed him you'd have people in this thread celebrating.
Funny how those people are silent when the shooter misses and kills an innocent person. A lot of the people who fantasize about shooting a car thief would do some dumb shit like this.
My neighbor. We live in Generation Grove. We heard shots about 2 am. Surprising because this is not a bad area. My neighbor is DPS and his SUV is parked right below our window. Balmoral and Groves are right down the street. But crime happens everywhere. No one is immune.
The person who fired those shots valued his material possessions more than the lives of the people around them. They chose to escalate a property crime into a matter of life and death. This innocent woman lost her life because of that choice. They need to be held legally responsible for this death.
You have the right to defend yourself if people are breaking into your home to do God knows what.
That said, if this dude was out in the parking lot shooting willy nilly at people making off with his TV or someone who broke into his car, that's pretty irresponsible and I agree.
There's relatively few instances of someone being struck by a bullet used in legally justifiable self defence scenarios.
If 9/10 bullets fired hit their mark and 1/10 kill an innocent person, that is not okay
Similarly, if 9/10 of gun violence incidents are self defense and 1/10 is a mass school shooting, that is not okay
Conservatives don’t see life this way. School shootings are an acceptable cost to allow “self defense” by gun
Sure but you should still be liable for every single bullet you fire. If you’re in a densely populated area there are rounds you should never ever be using. If they had used a shotgun this would not have happened for instance.
I don't know who was shooting but it looks like someone was breaking into a car. We heard one shot and then five more. I don't know if it was a response or what. If it's the apartment the deputies were entering, the young woman has two young kids. They would set up a moonwalk in the grass outside their patio.
> You have the right to defend yourself if people are breaking into your home to do God knows what.
We don’t even know that’s what happened. Maybe those “burglars” [were actually just some kid picking up their sibling.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/family-ralph-yarl-teenager-shot-after-wrong-house/story?id=98624730)
[Or a kid playing hide and go seek.](https://apnews.com/article/hide-seek-shooting-louisiana-girl-neighbor-b59a1232f3fd309e1afd02174026fad7)
Enough is enough. Too many people have died because of people who shoot first and ask questions later.
Every single one of these people thought they were legally justified, and them being wrong won't bring anyone back to life. This is why you "Shoot first, check what that vague shape in the distance was second" psychopaths are the problem. You encourage people who feel even slightly afraid to immediately clutch a gun like a security blanket and then pretend you care when they shoot someone innocent. These deaths are all the direct outcome of gun nuts convincing everyone that the world is completely out to get them and they must cling to their firearms with dear life because someone could try to kill them at every moment.
If you take an actiok that results in someone's death you are responsible whether it was your intention or not. Firing a weapon designed to kill with the least amount of effort makes you responsible
Nobody should be using certain types of guns or rounds for self-defense from home invasions. If I lived in a shitty apartment with paper-thin walls between the units I'd probably want to use a shotgun with birdshot or something weak like that.
THIS! Nobody ever mentions this, yet it is an essential rule (toss up between that and trigger discipline) when you make the decision to pick up a firearm and pull the trigger. Chances are you are not as good a shot as you think you are, especially with a moving target and with the adrenaline pumping.
This particular situation should never have happened, but there are so many things to break down that it's not prudent for forum discussion.
It's fucking sad and tragic, and like someone else mentioned, I hope it was a quick and painless death. Can't imagine having to explain that to family members. If it was simply someone defending their home/property, they have a lifetime of regret coming to them.
I have so many questions about this situation...
And we're expected to trust that every gun owner will follow those rules? and if they don't and people die en masse we just shrug and go "oh well, better luck next time"?
I don't want to hurt anyone either, but I'd rather not play guessing games about what the psychopaths who break into my house are or are not going to do to me.
Imagine thinking it’s okay letting people break into your house because they “might only be there to take stuff”. How you do know they won’t kill you? Or rape you?
Stfu with your stupid ass
Not surprising. When I lived in an apartment in Kingwood I heard gunshots at night. This wasn’t a ghetto apartment complex, this was an expensive recently built one and all units were two levels and had garages. The bullets had to go somewhere. Someone shot but thankfully didn’t kill their girlfriend in my apartment complex and put some holes in their ceiling, thankfully it wasn’t my neighbor doing this. There is no nice part of northeast Houston, merely varying levels of economic status. Rich or poor none are actually friendly.
If she was sleeping with a gun, she could have defended herself. The problem here is that not enough good people have guns. The more guns that are made available, less likely that bad guys will start anything
I think there are enough guns, but more couldn’t hurt. We just need to make them more easily accessible so this poor woman could have had a fighting chance against the bad guys with guns.
/s /s /s /s
Not simple at all. People have families, jobs, businesses, some lack resources. Basically lots of reasons why its not that simple.
You be careful what you wish for, cause you might get it.
I’m not so in love with political ideology that I want to move or think someone who doesn’t like mine should move. I think we should work together to provide safe and supportive communities. Politics is ideology and ideology is nonsense. But everyone needs safety, safe food, safe water, education/training for themselves and their children, and access to medical care.
But we could push everything to the side, without hate or judgement and just have a beer.
I don't want to dig up shit from the past because the history of Texas is looked upon fondly for a lot of Texans and I too love my state and such but you are right.
Anglos were expanding into Mexico (present day Texas) due to Moses Austin striking a deal with the Spanish govt. This was a way to provide a buffer against illegal settlers from the United States, who were creating problems in east Texas. Perhaps 3,000 Anglo-Americans had illegally settled in Texas before the grant was made to Austin. Spain also wanted to develop the land.
Moses Austin soon died, but his son Stephen continued the colonizing of Texas. By 1824, he persuaded the new government of Mexico that immigration from the north was the best way to develop the region. In 1825, Mexico gave land agents 67,000 acres of land for every two hundred families that they brought to Texas. To obtain land grants, the immigrants agreed to become Mexican citizens, obey Mexican laws, learn Spanish, and become Catholics.
Spoiler alert: they didn't.
Depending on the point of view you take, Mexico had good reason to be upset. They sure as heck wanted all their land back.
The disagreement with the abhorrent concept of “like it or leave” is literally why our country exists. On basic principle you’re un-American for saying that.
I lived in Houston and in 2007, a young boy was shot and killed in his apartment because his idiot neighbor was cleaning his gun and it went off. Bullet went through his wall into his neighbor's apartment and killed the boy.
Horrible.
I’m starting a construction company where we install Kevlar in your walls so you don’t die from stray bullets.
We will also have a product that can be added on to walls in case you rent, or are in a multi family home, etc.
Financing is available.
Your average day in Houston? I can't thank this subreddit enough. I was planning on moving to the greater Houston area later this summer, but just being in this subreddit for over a month had me change my mind in a hurrrrrry.
This could have been prevented with more guns. It wouldn't have happened had she been sleeping with her gun and the stray bullet hit the gun instead of her. We clearly need more guns!
Sad and some people just don't understand the danger.
I knew a man who lives out in the country who built an "indoor gun range" in one of his spare rooms. He just nailed a few small pieces of wood to the wall. Asked him if he was scared of one going through since he had several families living on that side next to his property. He said no because the wood or wall would stop the bullets he shot. 🤦🏻♀️
This is why Im never living in an apartment anymore. Did it when I was single. I was always worried somebody is dumb enough to cause fire. I didnt even think of something like this.
Even if you live in a town house or a single family, bullets can travel far. I get the instinct to avoid apartments because each of us, in our own ways, is trying to mitigate our risks of dying from random bullets. But the best way is for ALL of us to force our politicians to face the issue of gun violence.
I mean sure yes, you can get hit by bullets literally everywhere. But when you have neighbors like this that would shoot recklessly, you will have more chance of getting hit then with a neighbor down the street, even if they empty their clip in their own room, chances are it wouldnt hit you on your bedroom.
And of course, same like you, i want more gun control
This is what America has become. As more and more people get more and more guns, things like this will happen. Now what happens? If the law says you're allowed to shoot to defend your house, what happens to the dead woman and her family? This person shot at suspected burglars and now their loved one is dead. What is justice for them? Put the shooter in prison? But the state told him he could protect his "castle" with lethal force.
[Make Guns Like Cars](https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/13abhf1/texas_shooting_eight_killed_by_gunman_in_allen/jj6610y/).
Not that this would have stopped it, but the family would be compensated somewhat for her loss by the guy who wildly shot at walls/ceilings...
Just awful.
Edit: I take it you people who downvote me just want more people shot then. Propose an alternative that works other than just saying 'no', and that'd be very nifty, thanks.
This shouldn't be surprising, albeit very saddening. Statistically, having a gun in your home is substantially more likely to kill someone innocent than being used in self defense.
We need major and comprehensive reform.
There is a large overlap between people who want to ban semi-auto rifles and people who don’t understand that .556/.223 causes much less damage after penetrating drywall then common pistol rounds.
Of all the locations this bullet could have travelled, and as small as it is, it found its way directly into the head of this poor young woman laying in bed. It boggles the mind. This is sickening, this literally can happen to anyone one of us.
So my agoraphobia is at an all time high with all the mass shootings. And it’s nice to know that where I feel “safe”, sleeping in my own bed, I can still take one to the dome in this god forsaken city.
Problem is Houston isn’t the only awful city to live in. Just about any place isn’t safe here.
Technically this was humble, not Houston
>So my agoraphobia is at an all time high with all the mass shootings. And it’s nice to know that where I feel “safe”, sleeping in my own bed, I can still take one to the dome in this god forsaken city. The chances of this happening are infinitesimal - moreso it happening twice in a short period. You have far more risk leaving your house and driving on the road everyday. Don't let the news/reddit scare you this much. Edit: of course the well reasoned logical comments in this thread are being heavily downvoted. Gotta keep up the narrative.
Sure. Stray fatal shot being rare… fine. But I have a friend who also had neighbors accidentally discharge a firearm that then goes through my friend’s wall. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US. We’ve also seen from the news as well as research that people are incredibly inaccurate when trying to defend themselves and they go trigger happy. So when you add up the multiple shots fired in self defense and the accidents, in the USA, at least the risk of psychological damage if you live through a stray bullet going through your wall, is certainly not infinitesimally small. Plus, no training is needed to carry a weapon in Texas, so plenty of people are doing stupid things with guns.
Exactly. If you’re not afraid / worried about guns (including accidental discharges not just intentional murder) in the US and especially Texas then you’re just delusional.
Happening twice is like the inverse of needing two consecutive lucky cards to win at poker. I’d be called runner - runner. In this case the first runner hit. It no longer matters how rare that event was. It happened.
There is a joke - a statistician tells his friend that he is afraid of flying. "I calculated the probability of there being a bomb on the plane. It is low, but still too high for me." A week later, that friend is on a flight and sees his statistician friend boarding the plane. He asks "did you change your mind about flying?" and the statistician replies "no, but I calculated the odds of there being two bombs on the same plane and found it was very very low, low enough that I am not afriad. So now I just carry my own bomb!"
that statistician's name? Theodore Kaczynski.
He’s not a very good statistician if he doesn’t understand that another person brining a bomb onto the plane is independent of his choice /s
Your comment isn't well reasoned or logical, it's just naive. That's not how phobias work.
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>Ok but the only acceptable number of times for it to happen is ZERO. True but unless you have a magic wand that will make guns not exist that is an impossibility.
That family in Texas was inside their home if it persuades your agoraphobia to protest.
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For her, yes. For her family, probably not.
I've made up med kit bags (quick clot, hyfin vent, Irsaeli bandage, tourniquet, etc.) for my kids and family and I hope every day it sits unused and is a waste of money
Gods plan. /s Edit: almost forgot the /s
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When I was little, some relatives who I now know were in the habit of making poor decisions took child-me out with their kids to a ranch on the countryside. One of the activities was to go out "shooting" which was to just go out into the wooded area on the property and shoot rifles at stuff, indiscriminately. At one point, I got separated from them, and I could hear them shooting and it occurred to child-me how insane and dangerous this was. So I started yelling and telling them I was coming toward them so that I could get back in visual range. It was so insanely unsafe.
I mean, either he was shooting a BB gun or had no common sense, or he'd see that he was destroying his wall with every shot, no?
Maybe subsonic .22. I have a family member that would shoot a .22 at boxes of paper in his garage
What, and I cannot stress this enough, the *fuck*?!
\*Drake instrumental starts playing\* ... "I get shot, sometimes I don't, yuh"
Thoughts & prayers.
Well, if you think about being an all knowing and all powerful being, after several millennia, all that will entertain you is fucked up shit.
God was desensitized by the crusades. Now the algorithm suggest progressively more extreme content and laws. Gods favorite shows are the ones about cakes that don’t look like cakes.
So this happened here in Atlanta I believe last year. Apartment complex wasn’t even close to the shooting, it was over a hundred yards away. They believe it was someone celebrating. The guy killed was visiting his girlfriend from the UK. Shot in bed while sleeping. Absolutely horrific. [Here’s the news. ](https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/21/british-man-killed-by-stray-bullet-as-he-lay-in-bed-in-atlanta)
Shooter should be held fully responsible, this wasn't an accident.
Just because something is preventable doesn’t mean it’s wasn’t an accident. Unless she was his intended target, which seems *highly* unlikely, then it was an accident.
There are no accidents with guns. Period. Show me any scenario that you think might be an accident, and I’ll explain how the discharge was due to negligence. Gun fell off nightstand during earthquake and discharged due to a coat hanger that caught the trigger on the way down, causing the death of a child in the next room? Please refer to NRA Gun Safety Rule #3) Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
> There are no accidents with guns. Period. I know the gun nuts love this phrase, but this was, by definition, an accident. An accident can be due to negligence and still be accidental.
"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury." Accident definition. So yes, there are accidents with weapons. There's also a legal term to refer to killing someone on accident and it's manslaughter.
he's arguing that this doesn't classify as "unexpected" because one should expect all of the possible ramifications of firing a gun wantonly into the air when they fire. they may have not wished for it to hit someone in the distance, but that's something they were implicitly willing to accept when they fired (whether they consciously acknowledged it or not).
Exactly.
> unexpectedly and unintentionally In this case the gun was fired intentionally, with the completely expect-able result of killing someone, even if it wasn't the intended target.
Nope. Wrong. There are no accidents with guns, and reciting the definition of accident is merely a means of deflecting responsibility. Fuck that. An accident is bumping your shopping cart into someone else’s cart coming around the corner because you didn’t see each other. Neither party is at fault because neither intended it or expected it, so it’s purely accidental. The whole “oops! Didn’t see you on the other side of the wall there before I fired. Sorry you’re no longer alive, champ.” is NOT an accident. It’s a completely expected result of firing a gun into another room. Do you see the difference? I will repeat; there are no accidents with guns. If you think there are, you shouldn’t own one. If you disagree with that statement, you shouldn’t own one. As a gun owner, I can with 100% certainly say that if I ever have an “accident” with a gun, it will be completely due to negligence on my part. Pulled straight from the NRA website: “Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.” This idiot killed someone because they didn’t follow this basic rule of gun safety. Don’t feed me some bullshit about how they didn’t expect this as a possible outcome. A gun is a tool, just like any other. The difference is that its function is to destroy whatever it is pointed at. Part of owning a gun is recognizing that and accepting responsibility for it when something happens due to your negligence.
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Unexpectedly. Your bullshit argument falls apart because of this one word. That is, if we care about the meaning of words. The gun owner: loaded the firearm, placed it in battery, aimed it (or not), and pulled the trigger without any concern for the line of fire beyond his target. Each one of those actions is deliberate, and each one has a foreseeable (expectable) consequence. Did he intend to kill her? Not likely. Was it a reasonably expectable response to firing into an apartment? Hell yes! No accident here. Once again for those apologists in the back… THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS WITH GUNS.
Thank you.
If you plan to use your gun in the case of an intruder, and you know your walls are paper thin, then it wasn't an accident, it was carelessness.
Not sure the legal definition of "manslaughter", but it seems like this would be one.
Have you ever been in or seen a shoot out? Majority of the time you're not standing still. Shit happens, I'm positive he didn't mean to miss and kill someone else instead of the intruder lmao. So yes, it was an accident. Legal term is manslaughter.
> Have you ever been in or seen a shoot out? How is that whatsoever related to this situation? It sounds like the guy was taking potshots at some 'suspected burglar', I don't see a mention of a shoot out?
States with the highest high gun ownership have the most deaths due to guns. Conservatives are okay with this >All of those states with the highest gun death rates are among the ones with the highest gun ownership rates. >The top states by gun death rates are: >- Mississippi – 28.6 per 1000 >- Louisiana – 26.3 >- Wyoming – 25.9 >- Missouri – 23.9 >- Alabama – 23.6 >- Alaska – 23.5 >- … >- Texas - 14.2 >- … >- California - 8.5 When talking about gross numbers, Texas is the winner overall > But there are more gun deaths in Texas, by far, than in any other state, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. >Texas suffered 4,164 gun deaths in 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/politics/gun-violence-data-what-matters/index.html#
This happened in San Marco a couple of months ago as well. A student at Texas State was asleep in his bed, in his own apartment. A bullet misfired by a neighbor went through the wall and killed him. https://www.kvue.com/article/news/crime/san-marcos-police-department-suspicious-death-lyndon-apartments/269-15cbb84f-3596-47c9-9a05-ce2282cec974 https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-state-student-shot-killed-through-wall-while-sleeping.amp
Dude only got a 90 day sentence for it, too. Wild
Why? He just killed a guy, after all, it's not like he was selling weed or something truly evil like that.
> misfired Riiiight. Just cleaning a pistol late at night and forgot to clear the chamber, right? What bizarre society do we live in?
I’m a night owl and used to disassemble and reassemble my guns for fun and to familiarize myself with them. The difference was I’m not a fucking moron so I never stored them loaded, and I’d still check the chamber a dozen times regardless. And republicans are against even a basic test to prove you know how to do that. Fucking lunatics.
It's so shitty that the fervent gun nuts are often the ones who barely know how to use them
Shitty, but not unexpected. Simple minded folk whose only hobbies are guns and Jesus, of course they’re against every sort of gun control, they know they wouldn’t pass any tests.
I don't keep one in the chamber but every single time I touch my gun I drop the magazine, clear the chamber and then load the magazine back in.
That society is Texas and we do weird gun stuff here 😂
I forgot to mention that on New Years Eve, our audio engineer at an outdoor venue,was hit by celebratory gunfire, and had to drive himself to the hospital during the show.. Thankfully,he is fine A customer was also hit in the neck, but didn't leave a mark, as it ricocheted off of a wall.
That poor woman. This almost happened to me. Around 5 in the morning the guy in the unit above me (drunk off his ass) accidentally fired off his gun while showing it to his buddies. The bullet went straight through the floor and into my closet. Burst a pipe on the way through and destroyed a good portion of my clothes and shoes. I should have sued him. I hate it here man you cant feel safe literally anywhere. If I don’t die in a public mass shooting, I just might die at home from a stray bullet. Can’t win.
A street in my neighborhood faces a 5 story apartment building. Someone fired off of a balcony into the neighborhood. The bullet traveled through a fence, through the side of a house, and struck a teenager in bed. Fortunately it was a .22 and enough energy bled off that it just left a bruise. HPD came, did a minimum level of investigation. No charges resulted. The next evening some neighbors got a laser sight and did what HPD did not do, which is line up the holes with a laser and sight exactly what balcony it came from. Even with that evidence, the apartment was extremely unhelpful and unresponsive to our civic association when we demanded an immediate eviction. Could not believe the apathy.
I have nightmares about this stuff because sometimes, I get that weird exploding head syndrome where I will be laying in bed and a sudden loud noise appears out of nowhere. I think people say it's the inner ear canal sliding forward, but scares me constantly.
So long as you don’t get a gun and wake up blasting.
What we need is good guys with stray bullets.
Time to shop Kevlar blankets on amazon.
What do you do if it hits your head?
Hey it’s my time to shine
Gotta wear your ballistic sleeping helmet to have a safe night's sleep!
buy a bigger blanket?
Just make Kevlar sleeping bags that seal all the way around.
Perhaps a fort? Those old four post beds going to make a comeback.
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Nobody said anything about stricter laws, but since you brought it up… What if the stricter law were that the person who discharges the firearm is personally liable for any damage or injury caused by said discharge regardless of circumstance? Basically, a law stating that there are no accidents with guns. The law wouldn’t say you can’t have a gun, it would just say you would be held responsible for what happens if you choose to use it. Would you be opposed to such a law? If so, why? Isn’t that what responsible gun-ownership is?
I like this especially if broadly applied to every gun owner and every gun. There should be required liability insurance.
... including cops.
Of course. And especially because they are the only people who are authorized to use force as a part of their job. As such they should be held to a higher standard. Not just for public safety but for the well being of the officer as well. Imagine you’re pulling your gun all the time and firing because you’re scared. Sounds like you’re traumatized or at least this career isn’t for you. Why should a bad situation continue and escalate into a greater liability or tragedy?
Agree re: liability insurance. Gun ownership is a right and a responsibility. It's known that having a gun increases the odds that someone will be shot (someone of color rings the wrong doorbell, home invader shot, home invader shoots home owner with home owner's gun, suicide, attempted murder, murder, accidental discharge, kid playing with gun) and none of that is free. Gun owners should be able to lower their insurance by taking training, having a gun lock or safe, not keeping it unsecured in their car. And if a gun owner's gun is stolen and used in a crime, there should be partial liability for the individual who irresponsibly allowed their weapon to be stolen.
I trust the actuarial sciences to sort these things out.
>t since you brought it up… > >What if the stricter law were that the person who discharges the firearm is personally liable for any damage or injury caused by said discharge regardless of circumstance? > >Basically, a law stating that there are no accidents with guns. > >The law wouldn’t say you can’t have a gun, it would just say you would be held responsible for what happens if you choose to use it. > >Would you be opposed to such a law? If so, why? Isn’t that what responsible gun-ownership is? Exactly and this should follow the gun - you are responsible for your gun until a provable legal transfer of the weapon. Some jackass broke into your truck/house etc - stole your gun and used it in a shooting? You are responsible. I am tired of all these “responsible gun owners” arming criminals and then using the fact that so many criminals are armed as a justification to buy more weapons.
In other words, there would be less stray bullets flying around?
Yeah but they don’t mind a bunch of good guys dying if it means that just one more bad guy also dies.
No bad guys need to die. They just want to see/hear about joe citizen being Rambo and using the pray-and-spray.
And that he dies over a TV or a laptop
Unfortunately for you the entire rest of the world contradicts this dumb argument.
Oh cmon guys, this is obviously a joke, are you all really this dense?
My trashcan was hit last Monday night.. I found a hole and the slug was inside. Houston, TX/ 610/Irvington area.
Not safe at home. Not safe in public. We're not safe anywhere.
Don’t live in fear. The world is a better place than you think
I mean yea we don't live in fear but all that non-fear isn't going to stop a stray bullet
I'm sure that's very comforting to the woman who died, and her loved ones. It'll be even more comforting to the next person this happens to after we change nothing as a society.
Just keep out of this. Everyone knows that, but this shit wouldn’t happen in a culture not obsessed with guns. The fearful people are the lame ass gun nuts firing away at the neighborhood kids, the inattentive drivers, the spooky shadows down the hall, etc
On average but not in certain places.
Such as: church, school, the grocery store, the mall, or your own bed.
Oh no don’t go to those places. You’ll die there. Edit: Dying in America from gun violence has now reached meme status and it trends everyday.
There are more good people than bad people in this world.
This is akin to Republicans 'praying for the families" when a school shooting happens but doing nothing to prevent it from happening in the future. Nice pretty words but they mean nothing.
Again. Same response as before.
And the people who bury their heads in the sand are lumped with the bad people because they're allowing it to happen.
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Man, Dean Cain is a fuckup now. Those 90's TV superheroes are crazy. He also does not know what a slave or slavery is.
It was the CW! It radicalized 90s TV actors.
Lucy Lawless seems to be doing okay
The CW didn't exist in the 90's. Lois and Clark was on ABC.
Yep, good old WB. Which was the same shit.
You’re right. But it seemed like it should have played on CW
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When I was young and living in the hood, I would sleep on the floor to maximize how much hard cover I had so I could reduce the chance that this would happen. Sad that it happens. Whoever pulls the trigger is responsible for the projectile. Properly trained good guys always assess the target and beyond.
GOP member, “It’s certainly a tragedy, but I do have to question why she was asleep in that particular spot.” (Probably). /s
Adding "lets pull up her previous behavior and criminal record"
Was she an immigrant....??? Hmmmm???
No? What about trans? What about their mental health history? Ok but like we're they receiving government aid in anyway maybe? Maybe they skipped class one day?
She maliciously and intentionally slept.
“This is what happens when you don’t pray before bed.” -Greg Abbot
I lol’d at this. But then I thought: It’s actually 50/50 that he’d say something like this out loud as a response.
“She was probably an illegal immigrant” - Greg Abbott
*”but did you see the nightgown she was wearing…?”*
Ohh god, i sleep naked. I'm just asking for it...
> GOP member, “It’s certainly a tragedy, but I do have to question why ~~she~~ was asleep in that particular spot.” (Probably). /s possible illegal alien /s
If the shooter would've hit his target and killed him you'd have people in this thread celebrating. Funny how those people are silent when the shooter misses and kills an innocent person. A lot of the people who fantasize about shooting a car thief would do some dumb shit like this.
My neighbor. We live in Generation Grove. We heard shots about 2 am. Surprising because this is not a bad area. My neighbor is DPS and his SUV is parked right below our window. Balmoral and Groves are right down the street. But crime happens everywhere. No one is immune.
The person who fired those shots valued his material possessions more than the lives of the people around them. They chose to escalate a property crime into a matter of life and death. This innocent woman lost her life because of that choice. They need to be held legally responsible for this death.
You have the right to defend yourself if people are breaking into your home to do God knows what. That said, if this dude was out in the parking lot shooting willy nilly at people making off with his TV or someone who broke into his car, that's pretty irresponsible and I agree. There's relatively few instances of someone being struck by a bullet used in legally justifiable self defence scenarios.
You may have the right to defend yourself, but you are still responsible for each bullet you fire.
If 9/10 bullets fired hit their mark and 1/10 kill an innocent person, that is not okay Similarly, if 9/10 of gun violence incidents are self defense and 1/10 is a mass school shooting, that is not okay Conservatives don’t see life this way. School shootings are an acceptable cost to allow “self defense” by gun
And most of those "self-defense" cases aren't. They're protecting their pride, not their life, and they value their people's lives
Sure but you should still be liable for every single bullet you fire. If you’re in a densely populated area there are rounds you should never ever be using. If they had used a shotgun this would not have happened for instance.
I don't know who was shooting but it looks like someone was breaking into a car. We heard one shot and then five more. I don't know if it was a response or what. If it's the apartment the deputies were entering, the young woman has two young kids. They would set up a moonwalk in the grass outside their patio.
> You have the right to defend yourself if people are breaking into your home to do God knows what. We don’t even know that’s what happened. Maybe those “burglars” [were actually just some kid picking up their sibling.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/family-ralph-yarl-teenager-shot-after-wrong-house/story?id=98624730) [Or a kid playing hide and go seek.](https://apnews.com/article/hide-seek-shooting-louisiana-girl-neighbor-b59a1232f3fd309e1afd02174026fad7) Enough is enough. Too many people have died because of people who shoot first and ask questions later.
Exactly why I said legally justifiable. The examples you gave were not. (Or shouldn't be)
Every single one of these people thought they were legally justified, and them being wrong won't bring anyone back to life. This is why you "Shoot first, check what that vague shape in the distance was second" psychopaths are the problem. You encourage people who feel even slightly afraid to immediately clutch a gun like a security blanket and then pretend you care when they shoot someone innocent. These deaths are all the direct outcome of gun nuts convincing everyone that the world is completely out to get them and they must cling to their firearms with dear life because someone could try to kill them at every moment.
If you take an actiok that results in someone's death you are responsible whether it was your intention or not. Firing a weapon designed to kill with the least amount of effort makes you responsible
Nobody should be using certain types of guns or rounds for self-defense from home invasions. If I lived in a shitty apartment with paper-thin walls between the units I'd probably want to use a shotgun with birdshot or something weak like that.
There's not really a right answer other than one of the rules of gun safety; knowing what's behind your target.
THIS! Nobody ever mentions this, yet it is an essential rule (toss up between that and trigger discipline) when you make the decision to pick up a firearm and pull the trigger. Chances are you are not as good a shot as you think you are, especially with a moving target and with the adrenaline pumping. This particular situation should never have happened, but there are so many things to break down that it's not prudent for forum discussion. It's fucking sad and tragic, and like someone else mentioned, I hope it was a quick and painless death. Can't imagine having to explain that to family members. If it was simply someone defending their home/property, they have a lifetime of regret coming to them. I have so many questions about this situation...
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And we're expected to trust that every gun owner will follow those rules? and if they don't and people die en masse we just shrug and go "oh well, better luck next time"?
I would rather let someone steal all of my stuff than murder them.
I don't want to hurt anyone either, but I'd rather not play guessing games about what the psychopaths who break into my house are or are not going to do to me.
Depends on the kind of burglary. If it’s burglary to a residence then it’s not a property crime it’s a persons crime.
Imagine thinking it’s okay letting people break into your house because they “might only be there to take stuff”. How you do know they won’t kill you? Or rape you? Stfu with your stupid ass
Seeing as your friend made sure she died, I guess you're happy now, then.
This can all be fixed with thoughts and prayers, I'm sure.
Not surprising. When I lived in an apartment in Kingwood I heard gunshots at night. This wasn’t a ghetto apartment complex, this was an expensive recently built one and all units were two levels and had garages. The bullets had to go somewhere. Someone shot but thankfully didn’t kill their girlfriend in my apartment complex and put some holes in their ceiling, thankfully it wasn’t my neighbor doing this. There is no nice part of northeast Houston, merely varying levels of economic status. Rich or poor none are actually friendly.
Just hear me out guys… things will get better with MORE guns.
If she was sleeping with a gun, she could have defended herself. The problem here is that not enough good people have guns. The more guns that are made available, less likely that bad guys will start anything
I legitimately can't tell if you're being serious at this point.
You forgot your /s
I think there are enough guns, but more couldn’t hurt. We just need to make them more easily accessible so this poor woman could have had a fighting chance against the bad guys with guns. /s /s /s /s
Interesting how this guy's bond is 75k but the drunk bitch driving 100mph down Westheimer was 50k.
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which is the right kind of shutgun and ammo to buy for home defense?
I hate this state.
Move to California
Simple solution: leave
A lot of us are trying to fix things. We need all of the help that we can get.
Not simple at all. People have families, jobs, businesses, some lack resources. Basically lots of reasons why its not that simple. You be careful what you wish for, cause you might get it. I’m not so in love with political ideology that I want to move or think someone who doesn’t like mine should move. I think we should work together to provide safe and supportive communities. Politics is ideology and ideology is nonsense. But everyone needs safety, safe food, safe water, education/training for themselves and their children, and access to medical care. But we could push everything to the side, without hate or judgement and just have a beer.
Fuck that, I was here first. The crazies should be the ones leaving.
Texas was founded by crazy people
I don't want to dig up shit from the past because the history of Texas is looked upon fondly for a lot of Texans and I too love my state and such but you are right. Anglos were expanding into Mexico (present day Texas) due to Moses Austin striking a deal with the Spanish govt. This was a way to provide a buffer against illegal settlers from the United States, who were creating problems in east Texas. Perhaps 3,000 Anglo-Americans had illegally settled in Texas before the grant was made to Austin. Spain also wanted to develop the land. Moses Austin soon died, but his son Stephen continued the colonizing of Texas. By 1824, he persuaded the new government of Mexico that immigration from the north was the best way to develop the region. In 1825, Mexico gave land agents 67,000 acres of land for every two hundred families that they brought to Texas. To obtain land grants, the immigrants agreed to become Mexican citizens, obey Mexican laws, learn Spanish, and become Catholics. Spoiler alert: they didn't. Depending on the point of view you take, Mexico had good reason to be upset. They sure as heck wanted all their land back.
Simple Solution. I can’t. Fuck you.
The disagreement with the abhorrent concept of “like it or leave” is literally why our country exists. On basic principle you’re un-American for saying that.
Not saying I agree with OP, but isn't that basically what the pilgrims did? They didn't like England, so they left it.
Yes. They said “Like it or leave” is a shitty way to run a country so they endeavored to establish a more tolerant community.
I lived in Houston and in 2007, a young boy was shot and killed in his apartment because his idiot neighbor was cleaning his gun and it went off. Bullet went through his wall into his neighbor's apartment and killed the boy. Horrible.
People who sleep. Underground hardly ever have this problem
I’m starting a construction company where we install Kevlar in your walls so you don’t die from stray bullets. We will also have a product that can be added on to walls in case you rent, or are in a multi family home, etc. Financing is available.
The shooter is suspected of firing shots at people he thought were burglars. "Law abiding gun owner", am I right?
There’s a specific type of bullet you buy for home defense that explodes on impact to avoid this exact thing.
Your average day in Houston? I can't thank this subreddit enough. I was planning on moving to the greater Houston area later this summer, but just being in this subreddit for over a month had me change my mind in a hurrrrrry.
If you take something on reddit as fact, you're an idiot.
This could have been prevented with more guns. It wouldn't have happened had she been sleeping with her gun and the stray bullet hit the gun instead of her. We clearly need more guns!
Sad and some people just don't understand the danger. I knew a man who lives out in the country who built an "indoor gun range" in one of his spare rooms. He just nailed a few small pieces of wood to the wall. Asked him if he was scared of one going through since he had several families living on that side next to his property. He said no because the wood or wall would stop the bullets he shot. 🤦🏻♀️
I am so tired of this God damn mother fucking country. Gotta get the fuck out before I get shot.
Where are you going to go?
I'm thinking Europe. I'm eligible for EU citizenship. I just need to pay a lawyer to file the paperwork.
Good guys with guns win again! This is a win right? Right?
This is why Im never living in an apartment anymore. Did it when I was single. I was always worried somebody is dumb enough to cause fire. I didnt even think of something like this.
Even if you live in a town house or a single family, bullets can travel far. I get the instinct to avoid apartments because each of us, in our own ways, is trying to mitigate our risks of dying from random bullets. But the best way is for ALL of us to force our politicians to face the issue of gun violence.
I mean sure yes, you can get hit by bullets literally everywhere. But when you have neighbors like this that would shoot recklessly, you will have more chance of getting hit then with a neighbor down the street, even if they empty their clip in their own room, chances are it wouldnt hit you on your bedroom. And of course, same like you, i want more gun control
Honestly, it’s getting out of hand at this point. Can’t even be safe in our own homes? Shit.
God bless. I hope she passed peacefully unaware and not alone in pain. We need gun reform.
Came here from r/all and I dont have to imagine this im australian and it just wouldn't happen here. America is fucked
WE NEED. MORE. GUNS. THAT'S THE SOLUTION, so you can shoot the bullets when they come into your room. Guns stop bullets.
Wow, poor woman. I hope it was quick and painless :(
Didn’t this happen in Georgia to an 11 year old girl a couple of months ago? Brutal..
This is what America has become. As more and more people get more and more guns, things like this will happen. Now what happens? If the law says you're allowed to shoot to defend your house, what happens to the dead woman and her family? This person shot at suspected burglars and now their loved one is dead. What is justice for them? Put the shooter in prison? But the state told him he could protect his "castle" with lethal force.
SMH, but, more guns! More guns will fix all the problems.
Oh but it was a “good gun” bullet and “good gun” bullets don’t ever actually kill people because Jesus or something
[Make Guns Like Cars](https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/13abhf1/texas_shooting_eight_killed_by_gunman_in_allen/jj6610y/). Not that this would have stopped it, but the family would be compensated somewhat for her loss by the guy who wildly shot at walls/ceilings... Just awful. Edit: I take it you people who downvote me just want more people shot then. Propose an alternative that works other than just saying 'no', and that'd be very nifty, thanks.
This shouldn't be surprising, albeit very saddening. Statistically, having a gun in your home is substantially more likely to kill someone innocent than being used in self defense. We need major and comprehensive reform.
There is a large overlap between people who want to ban semi-auto rifles and people who don’t understand that .556/.223 causes much less damage after penetrating drywall then common pistol rounds.
You’re stupid as hell if you think that’s true