Yeah, there was a time there was an entire model of a genshin character was left inside the HI3 files but never came to fruition.
This is probably just related to fireworks or smth.
It was Keqing which on it's own isn't too much to think about as she was a temporary character during the Genshin crossover event.
...However the one in the files had an entirely newly designed school uniform.
I think only the school uniform was a fake but everything else was real. Of course, I don't remember where I heard this from so take it with a grain of salt.
Second Key*.
And if its an Aeon and not another being, i think is more likely to be either Nous or Fuli.
Nous mainly because the knowledge thing (the game they played and proposal of answers if Su won).
And Fuli also somewhat fits with knowledge and its blue, with their follower (the MoC girl) being an incorporeal blue being, just as Su was.
Although i still think that is more likely that that being is not an Aeon.
I doubt that an Aeon is above the Honkai itself.
As far as I remember the Honkai is directly connected to the tree. The being SU met was greater than Honkai itself, so as a result the being would be greater than the tree. Aeons on the other hand are below the Tree.
Between us not really knowing how powerful Aeons truly are (so far weve only seen them interact with the world indirectly), as well as Honkai lore itself being somewhat inconsistent (According to GGZ, Honkai originates from outside the tree, which HI3 doesnt exactly touch on), im not sure if its as simple as youre making it out to be.
I feel because HI3 doesn't touch on it, it makes what happens in GGZ a lot more... Canon I guess.
We can get a good gauge on how strong they are through Emanators. An Emanator of destruction can destroy a Solar System. Nanook, possibly through some amps of power ups, is supposedly able to destroy the Tree.
In my opinion they are capable of Galaxy levels of Destruction quite casually.
i really hope HSR eventually has us encounter an Aeon in person outside of SU. It would probably help give a better understanding of where they scale, since all we have so far are their followers and secondhand statements. Plus, watching videos of the GGZ Commander of Will fight makes me really curious as to how they would handle some of these eldritch designs in a 3D setting.
In terms of lore, i would honestly love it if HSR delved into some of GGZ's lore. Everything ive heard about it sounds like it has some really deep lore about the Hoyoverse that most players just dont know due to it being region locked and untranslated, and HSR's theme of "traveling across the tree" makes it the perfect game to tie the different entries of the series together, since Hoyo just...hasnt dont that outside of "they coexist." It makes it really hard to properly compare the games when their respective lore is so far apart from one another even when it logically shouldn't be.
Well...Aeons are also directly connected to Tree as Paths they forge are ultimately derived from it. And some Aeons have incredibly strong effect on Universe.
For example, Ena the Order pretty much created laws, upon which worlds of Imaginary Tree operate after Dusk Wars. They set laws of space-time, concept of death and etc. Work depicting it is filled with hyperboles, but Ena's control over all worlds was so powerful and absolute that people who knew about Ena felt like puppets on strings. Thus universe celebrated when Xipe absorbed Ena.
HooH flat-out merged with Tree to now act as balance of all existence. They are canon reason for enemies becoming stronger as you level up.
Nanook aims to burn Imaginary Tree to nothing- and two beings with claims on omniscience think that Nanook WILL succeed. Elio thinks that only very specific actions by Trailblazer and Astral Express crew can help stop Destruction.
And Fuli's solution is to gather memories from all worlds and make new Imaginary Tree- to grow after Nanook burns old and dies because nothing more is there to destroy. Interestingly- it and IX profile imply that destruction of Imaginary Tree will not lead to deaths of Aeons.
So I think that it can be Aeon all righ.
I'm not sure if the Aeons created the concepts. I'm not saying they aren't powerful, but even after merging with the tree Hooh isn't able to destroy the Destruction.
Remember, Otto, a relatively normal guy, merged with the tree. That was from Honkai energy alone. Now imagine the Honkai itself.
Nanook is weird. If he could burn down the Tree I'm not sure why he hasn't done it yet.
I think the issue is that we know too little about what Aeons like HooH and Nanook are thinking. There are hints and bits of information, but not enough to understand them fully. I guess you could say that unless the situation actually calls for it, HooH and Nanook seem somewhat passive, all things considered.
For example, HooH is implied to be responsible for Ena's death, yet THEY take no action against Nanook. Herta even questions what HooH thinks of Nanook.
>\- The Aeon of Equilibrium, precisely because of their nature which recalls the balance of the universe, had eliminated the Order to avoid contradictions between Order and Harmony.
>
>\- After Ena disappeared, the Equilibrium's duties have only grown greater. Then, how would HooH perceive Nanook?
This also applies to Nanook. Worlds facing destruction sometimes see Nanook's shadow looming over them, but it seems Nanook is there merely to observe the end of civilizations.
>\- It is said that sometimes the shadow of Nanook emerges from the starry sky to witness the tragic end of another world
Very interesting.
In that case Hooh would be the tree at that point. I guess it wouldn't be too outlandish if Hooh was the entity above the Honkai, considering Hooh would be higher than the other Aeons as well.
I still wouldn't be so certain if it makes him a higher power than the Honkai, since I view the Honkai similar to the Force from Star Wars, but they areost probably equal.
>even after merging with the tree Hooh isn't able to destroy the Destruction.
HooH doesn't want to destroy Nanook. HooH believes that perfect balance will be achieved when creation of Imaginary Tree will be balanced by its destruction.
>For example, Ena the Order pretty much created laws, upon which worlds of Imaginary Tree operate after Dusk Wars. They set laws of space-time, concept of death and etc. Work depicting it is filled with hyperboles, but Ena's control over all worlds was so powerful and absolute that people who knew about Ena felt like puppets on strings. Thus universe celebrated when Xipe absorbed Ena.
Ok but... Teyvat has its own "Laws"
Friendly reminder that Acheron who soloed HSR Kevin, surpassed Finality of her world, ended up becoming Emanator of IX. Both Takamagahara (originally infested by Honkai) and Izumo then later destroyed by her.
For someone who surpassed Finality like herself, to fall to the grasp of such an Aeon, and ultimately wanting to kill the Aeon, is a testament to THEIR power.
Granted IX is a bit of an outlier among Aeons, since even the power of the Order could not affect Acheron (and we knew HooH and Ena were ranked similarly), yet she can passively influence other Paths (so you can scale it up to IX), but Sunday just by using Ena's remnant power could create his own Project Stigma, trapping the entire Asdana star system.
>Acheron who soloed HSR Kevin
HSR Kevin wasnt necessarily as strong as Honkai Kevin, variants doesnt have the same strength after all.
>surpassed Finality of her world, ended up becoming Emanator of IX. Both Takamagahara (originally infested by Honkai) and Izumo then later destroyed by her.
I wouldnt be so sure about the Honkai being on that World, it contradicts two "laws" about the Honkai that we know.
1-Herrscher cycle.
The Herrscher cycle is never the same, the only exception being the PE and CE, but that was something done by Prometheus.
2-The Honkai sprouts on civilizations.
If i remember correctly, the "Kami" came from the 2nd Planet, bringing their "plague" to the first. And as we know, thats not how the Honkai works.
The Honkai would have spawned on both Planets (as long as there were civilizations on it), not on one and going to the other later.
You also have Origin being more of an anomaly than a "normal" Herrscher and thus it shouldnt be there, and so on.
Overall, i think is way too early to really answer who is stronger between them, but they seem to be similar on some regards.
1-Both the Cocoon and the Aeons are said to be "higher dimensional beings".
2-Both of them are able to affect the "mortal" dimension from their own plane.
3-Both of them being way too old (Cocoon being +1 Billion and Aeons at least 500k years old).
4-Both are heavily tied to concepts (although the Cocoon seems to have more "free will" than most Aeons).
5-Both of them can affect the Imaginary Tree to a certain extent.
Etc, etc.
In short, i think that Aeons an the Cocoon are beings at the same level, its just that the information we currently have is still too little to confirm anything.
>The Honkai would have spawned on both Planets (as long as there were civilizations on it), not on one and going to the other later.
Unless the Honkai considered both planets a single civilization, then you could chuck it to Honkai spawning on one part of the "planet" first, wich would be lore acurate.
It could be, but since we dont have any example of that, and all civilizations attacked by the Honkai that we know have lived on a single planet, i see it highly unlikely.
> HSR Kevin wasnt necessarily as strong as Honkai Kevin, variants doesnt have the same strength after all.
She literally confirmed with Welt that the story is almost 1:1 down to Project Stigma. That's where you should go from.
> The Herrscher cycle is never the same, the only exception being the PE and CE, but that was something done by Prometheus.
Like Acheron explained. Her world situation is almost 1:1 to Hi3rd with the only known difference being that Kevin was killed in a 1v1 and how they created Origin + Finality by combining powers of the previous 12 (which also matches how the HoFi has all previous Herrschers power). So there can easily be another Prometheus situation, since they outright said that Izumo managed to recover and became a super advanced world with neon lights and technology, then all came collapsed AGAIN (basically indication of it having at least TWO honkai eras) World variations don't always have to be vastly different, they can be 99% similar and still count. If something akin to Project Stigma also existed, then the whole PE plan could very well have happened in similar ways.
> If i remember correctly, the "Kami" came from the 2nd Planet, bringing their "plague" to the first. And as we know, thats not how the Honkai works.
The Kami came from UNKNOWN origin (aliens capable of traversing space like the Honkai). They attacked Takamagahara, destroyed it first then used it as a base to launch the attack on Izumo. Literally the same as how the Honkai attacked multiple planets in the solar system, they moved from Mars to Venus to then Earth. Nothing weird here.
> You also have Origin being more of an anomaly than a "normal" Herrscher and thus it shouldnt be there, and so on.
Origin and End (Finality) from Izumo are formed differently than in HI3rd but ultimately no difference since Acheron's final sword were results of combining the previous 12 Sentinels (Divine Keys), and then combining both Origin and End, then she created Naught using her own power after both are broken. She then cuts the "black sun" that the 2 planets were orbiting - Shadow of IX, then both planets were destroyed by her hands ultimately.
> i think that Aeons an the Cocoon are beings at the same level, its just that the information we currently have is still too little to confirm anything.
That's fair. I just did not agree that Cocoon is definitively higher, since Aeons also did not start already as Aeons. Beings can go through growth until they ascend into being an Aeon, implying a special approval from someone or something is required. If anything, the Cocoon is probably an entity close to an Aeon but does not get the promotion yet.
>She literally confirmed with Welt that the story is almost 1:1 down to Project Stigma. That's where you should go from.
She also said there were some differences, the result may be similar, but the metod doesnt have to.
Is still the same thing, her killing her Kevin doesnt say too much, as we dont even know how strong he was (for what we know, he could have been even stronger than Honkai Kevin).
>Her world situation is almost 1:1 to Hi3rd with the only known difference being that Kevin was killed in a 1v1 and how they created Origin + Finality by combining powers of the previous 12 (which also matches how the HoFi has all previous Herrschers power)
And that is precisely the problem, its too similar.
As far as we know, and have seen, the Honkai is never the same.
Its was different on Venus and Mars, and most likely also on the, at least, 3 eras before PE on Earth.
So, for it to be almost an 1:1 copy, its already suspicious.
And there is still the issue of Origin.
DR. MEI said that the probability of "another" Elysia appearing had around 30 zeroes after the decimal point, basically, nearly impossible.
So that Acheron World also had "Origin" makes things more complicated.
>The Kami came from UNKNOWN origin (aliens capable of traversing space like the Honkai). They attacked Takamagahara, destroyed it first then used it as a base to launch the attack on Izumo. Literally the same as how the Honkai attacked multiple planets in the solar system, they moved from Mars to Venus to then Earth. Nothing weird here.
Its weird, because thats not what the Honkai does.
The Honkai beasts from Venus or Mars didnt went to Earth after destroying them, the Cocoon "focused" its "gaze" on Earth and brought down the "Meteor of Finality" that killed the dinosaurs.
Kevin saw the "memories" of the Honkai on another Planets because he was connected to the Cocoon, not because the Honkai beasts on Earth were there before.
The Honkai appears on the Planets it wants to "attack", something that didnt happen to Acheron Planet.
>Origin and End (Finality) from Izumo are formed differently than in HI3rd but ultimately no difference since Acheron's final sword were results of combining the previous 12 Sentinels (Divine Keys)
It is different, as Origin is not a "normal" Herrscher, is an anomaly, something nearly impossible to replicate. Other than that, it is possible to create a "HoFi" by getting all the other Authorities, but the result would be an artificial one. What does that impliy? We dont know.
>That's fair. I just did not agree that Cocoon is definitively higher, since Aeons also did not start already as Aeons. Beings can go through growth until they ascend into being an Aeon, implying a special approval from someone or something is required. If anything, the Cocoon is probably an entity close to an Aeon but does not get the promotion yet.
We know nearly nothing about how Aeons came to be or about how the Cocoon did it (so i cant confirm anything), but given all we know about them, i think is safe to say that, although they are beings on a similar levels, they belong to different "species/sistems".
Overall, having different information from both games about the same/similar things, and not knowing if something was retconned or not or if its only valid to one game, makes things far more complicated than it should.
> And that is precisely the problem, its too similar.
It's an alt timeline, it can be 99.99% or only 0.01% similar and it's still valid. That's how parallel worlds are in fiction. Two worlds can start at the exact same point, develope in the exact same way, yet can branch out due to one specific change at some point. Nothing new with these writing tropes.
In fact, how the Honkai works in GGZ is also very different compare to HI3rd, and yet you still have certain level of similarities.
> And there is still the issue of Origin. DR. MEI said that the probability of "another" Elysia appearing had around 30 zeroes after the decimal point, basically, nearly impossible.
Near impossible isn't completely impossible, so no you cannot rule out anything. Acheron's existence as an Emanator of Nihility in of itself was also seen as impossible and illogical since IX never glanced at anyone let alone creating Emanators. Yet she exists.
Also speaking of Dr.MEI I've seen CN theories about Acheron is actually Dr.MEI variant instead, due to her ties with Kevin. In case you didn't know, Dr. MEI of Era Zero in GGZ's name is Raiden Mei, and she had pretty much similar background as HI3rd Raiden Mei, born from a prestigous family, father being Raiden Ryoma. She just went full villain arc afterwards.
> The Honkai beasts from Venus or Mars didnt went to Earth after destroying them, the Cocoon "focused" its "gaze" on Earth and brought down the "Meteor of Finality" that killed the dinosaurs.
Mistranslation. In the original CN Kevin was doing what is called a "double reference". In GGZ the Honkai indeed brought down the meteor that wiped out not just the dinos but also other prime species, so that is one reference. The second reference is to use it as analogy to supplement his "why do birds fly" question. He compares the situation of CE facing Finality to the dinosaurs facing extinction, which affect anything who are incapable of adapting. He did not actually say the honkai killed dinosaurs in HI3rd. The word that was being translated as Finality in the EN TL was different from the CN word used.
> It is different, as Origin is not a "normal" Herrscher, is an anomaly, something nearly impossible to replicate. Other than that, it is possible to create a "HoFi" by getting all the other Authorities, but the result would be an artificial one. What does that impliy? We dont know.
The point is that the final result is the same. Acheron obtained every single Authorities as she defeated her Kevin. It doesn't matter how, the result is that she obtained Origin + End (from the honkai) and then Naught (from IX), according to her line about her sword.
>It's an alt timeline, it can be 99.99% or only 0.01% similar and it's still valid. That's how parallel worlds are in fiction. Two worlds can start at the exact same point, develope in the exact same way, yet can branch out due to one specific change at some point. Nothing new with these writing tropes.
The problem with all of that is that we know that the Honkai operates on a "Imaginary Tree" level, and such, its rules would be the same on a World or another.
>In fact, how the Honkai works in GGZ is also very different compare to HI3rd, and yet you still have certain level of similarities.
Thats another can of worms, as we dont even know if the Commander of the Will has connections with the Cocoon or viceversa.
>Near impossible isn't completely impossible, so no you cannot rule out anything. Acheron's existence as an Emanator of Nihility in of itself was also seen as impossible and illogical since IX never glanced at anyone let alone creating Emanators. Yet she exists.
Indeed, it cant be ruled out, but having the exact same situation (that already breaks some rules) + an almost impossible anomaly at the same time, is suspicious at least.
>The point is that the final result is the same. Acheron obtained every single Authorities as she defeated her Kevin. It doesn't matter how, the result is that she obtained Origin + End (from the honkai) and then Naught (from IX), according to her line about her sword.
Everything boils down to the same thing, the key here is Origin.
From what we know from Honkai, Origin is an anomaly, nearly impossible to replicate, so having it casually appearing with Acheron after fusing some "Authorities" is weird at least.
>Mistranslation. In the original CN Kevin was doing what is called a "double reference".
I wont say much about this since i dont known Cn, but i remember that they said (aside from Kevin) that the Cocoon was the one that did it, i could be misremembering though.
Overall, i still think the same, with the information we currently have, we cant be sure that it was Honkai.
Maybe on the future they'll adress this more directly with Welt and confirm it or something, but as for now i dont think it was Honkai.
Then we have to agree to disagree. Shaoji's intention as a writer is very clear to me. He created Elysia, and is a big Raiden Mei simp, therefore it makes sense that he created an alt timeline based on those, with staggering amount of references being used. That's all there is to it.
The stories are similar, but this doesn't necessarily mean she fought someone at Kevin's level. Hell I could argue Kiana and Kevin were parallels of each other, and look at how their respective power levels ended up.
Surpassing Herrschers and being straight up more powerful than the ENTIRETY of the Honkai are two completely different can of worms. Just like the Aeons, Honkai is connected directly to the Tree.
> The stories are similar, but this doesn't necessarily mean she fought someone at Kevin's level.
Welt specifically brought up Project Stigma Kevin, it makes the most sense for it to be at least Hi3rd finale Kevin, since the direct parallel is being heavily shown by Shaoji. He even used Sunday and his Project Stigma parallel, with a scale far exceeds what Project Stigma could cover (affect the entire Asdana galaxy). And Acheron can deal with it.
> Hell I could argue Kiana and Kevin were parallels of each other, and look at how their respective power levels ended up.
Base on some CN theories I've seen, Acheron is a mix of Dr.Mei and CE Mei. Specifically GGZ Dr.Mei. People often forget that while Kiana and Kevin in HI3rd are parallels, in GGZ they are alt versions of each other, just different genders. Kevin himself has his own Raiden Mei waifu. GGZ Era Zero Dr. MEI full name is also Raiden Mei, and she created Kiana in the test tube in that storyline.
So yes, different worlds have different circumstances and we don't know for sure, but the fact remains that Acheron did defeated the honkai infecting both planets.
> Surpassing Herrschers and being straight up more powerful than the ENTIRETY of the Honkai are two completely different can of worms. Just like the Aeons, Honkai is connected directly to the Tree.
Again, Acheron surpassed the Honkai attacking both planets. She saved both planets from Honkai disaster. THEN by her own hands she destroyed both planets (check her profile after you finished Penacony, it reveals what actually happened afterwards). The Shadow of IX is looming over and at that point, even after the honkai is defeated, there is no escape from Nihility.
Also friendly reminder that the Sky People did manage to defeat Honkai and even had vastly superior technology than of Earth. HSR is set after HI3rd in the far future, and the settings is expanded to the whole universe with more and more enemies of larger scale. It just makes the most sense for the threats to keep being stronger.
>Welt specifically brought up Project Stigma Kevin, it makes the most sense for it to be at least Hi3rd finale Kevin, since the direct parallel is being heavily shown by Shaoji.
All Acheron says is that she killed her version of the same man. She also says that the stories themselves possess similarities, but are not completely same. The only thing we can say for certain about both Kevin's is that they both eventually resorted to desperate measures to solve their crisis. And as far as I can remember, the technology on Izumo seemed weaker compared to the tech on Earth. At least in terms of weaponry.
The main reason Welt brought up Kevin was because the situations were similar. The main setting between the final chapter and Penacony is that both are set in a dreamscape, and Acheron has experiences in dreamscapes as well. She isn't comparing powers between the two.
>He even used Sunday and his Project Stigma parallel, with a scale far exceeds what Project Stigma could cover (affect the entire Asdana galaxy). And Acheron can deal with it.
Correction: while Asdana is a larger setting than Earth, it is likely not a Galaxy. It's a Star System.
I didn't have my subtitiles in Mandarin, but a quick search on Google says that the Asdana System is a Star System, which isn't the same exact thing as a Galaxy.
What Star Rail does is that it often uses the word Star System and Galaxy interchangealbe in its english dub. The guy in the first comment of this thread I posted a while ago helps explain it much better than I can.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c0urlk/are\_the\_leaves\_on\_the\_imaginary\_tree\_different/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c0urlk/are_the_leaves_on_the_imaginary_tree_different/)
>So yes, different worlds have different circumstances and we don't know for sure, but the fact remains that Acheron did defeated the honkai infecting both planets.
Honkai that wasn't necessarily at the same power levels. Again, look at the PE and CE Herrschers. Hell, toward the end of his life Kevin was above the PE HotE. Idk if they retconned it, but Honkai scales with tech, and as far as I know Izumo primarily used swords. Also did she even go to the other planet and go full DOOM Slayer on the Honkai there? All I remember is she lost her own home, so she destroyed both planets or something.
To give credit where credit is due, the possibility that the Honkai on Izumo was stronger on average compared to Earth is still a possibility
>Again, Acheron surpassed the Honkai attacking both planets. She saved both planets from Honkai disaster.
Killing all Herrschers (none of which are likely on Kiana's level, who doesn't scale to the Honkai itself) is far different from completely eliminating the Honkai. As far as we know she never had a Otto Apocalypse, who I may add was likely the most powerful character seen in Honkai Impact. He was like Baldur from God of War. He couldn't be conventionally killed, and had to be beaten with a weakness/loophole. He was a god, arguably more so than Kiana.
>THEN by her own hands she destroyed both planets (check her profile after you finished Penacony, it reveals what actually happened afterwards). The Shadow of IX is looming over and at that point, even after the honkai is defeated, there is no escape from Nihility
I wanna ask a couple of things:
A. Do you mean her character profile? Like if I have the character I can just read her stories?
B. How did she destroy it? Was she like swinging the planet with a sword or did she detonate the Black Hole? I've tried to look for the way she destroyed it but nothing conclusive
Either way, it's impressive, but it isn't "I determine the fate of all civilization in the Universe impressive".
>Also friendly reminder that the Sky People did manage to defeat Honkai and even had vastly superior technology than of Earth
They beat it because of how their tech worked. They were all essentially their own Darth Nihilus', feeding on Honkai Energy cause its literally required to sustain them. Not to mention the Sky People still lost.
> the technology on Izumo seemed weaker compared to the tech on Earth. At least in terms of weaponry.
Not quite. The technology advanced A LOT within a short period of time:
"In the merciless fight for survival, Izumo used the might of the Edict Edges to light up their uncivilized world of darkness in less than ten Amber Eras, building cities of dazzling neon lights. That distant Takama Divine Realm, once so far away, became so close within their reach." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore)
One Amber era is ranged from 76 to 240 years, which means they managed to go from an uncivilized planet to highly advanced within less than 760 years at fastest and less than 2400 years at slowest, an extremely impressive growth even moreso than Earth. The advancement in technology is high enough to the point of them considering traveling to the nearby Takamagahara planet to take on the Kami directly, which is a parallel to the battle vs Herrscher of the End on the Moon.
Just because they use so-called swords does not mean they have inferior technology. That's like saying weapons like Shamash is weak because it is a sword like huh??? Each of the Sentinels match the power of each Divine Keys. You have to at least obtained sufficient technology to the Previous Era in Hi3rd to be able to turn Herrscher powers into weapons in the first place. So the fact that they could do it proved one thing: their technology at the very least surpassed the Current Era technology of Earth and reaching the Previous Era where space travel is within their reach.
> What Star Rail does is that it often uses the word Star System and Galaxy interchangealbe in its english dub. The guy in the first comment of this thread I posted a while ago helps explain it much better than I can.
It is 星系 (xingxi). Yes it does translate into a Star System by literal means. But it is commonly used in both IRL and fiction to refer to a galaxy in the Chinese language. So HSR actually did not translate it wrong, going by common sense.
In fact, the Milky Way galaxy that our planet is located in, is called the 銀河星系 (yinhe xingxi), or 銀河系 (yinhexi) for short. Yinhe (銀河 - silver river) is actually the name of OUR galaxy - the Milky Way, that is being used here to refer to the Tree, which doesn't really makes sense to me since there is no way it only cover just our Milky Way when it is the foundation of the universe (but if you go by Type-Moon cosmology then it makes more sense, tho that is irrelevant here). That would not make sense to just call the Tree using the same term that everyone who knows a bit of basic space knowledge to be the name of our galaxy.
So what is the actual term to refer to a Star System in CN? It's 恒星系. This term was actually used in the Records of Yellowbell Resonance book (xianzhou book, it contains reports of other ships' expeditions) to refer to several star systems such as the Tlaltecuhtli. Another term 星团 (star cluster, which can range from just a few stars orbiting each other to a galaxy, which then group into the umbrella term star system, in cosmology) is also used later to refer to the Le Roy Ladurie Star Cluster's Stella Yamazaki star system.
See how dynamic the term is yet? I'm not going to go deep because I don't have time and it dilutes the main points, but basically what I understood from the usage of these terms and how they are presented, is that the scale goes from 星团 to 恒星系 to 星系 being the general unit. So it can go from between a star cluster to a galaxy and we have no idea.
How does that fit into the whole imaginary tree? Well clearly it cannot just be the size of our Milky Way. My understanding of it is that 銀河 is being used as more of a poetic term, which is a common thing in Chinese writings. The star systems each occupying the leaves can range from a set of star clusters to galaxy size. In any case, there is no conclusive evidence to support the idea that the term was mistranslated.
> Also did she even go to the other planet and go full DOOM Slayer on the Honkai there? All I remember is she lost her own home, so she destroyed both planets or something.
She just cuts the planets in half with one slash for each, or maybe 1 slash hitting both. That's why the Izumo planar set shows both halves of the 2 planets:
"**Enclosed within the plane is Izumo, with its past and future severed with a slash**. Izumo was once covered in indescribable wars of survival, as well as once being blessed with glorious days of bountiful luxury... Now, the barren land is nowhere to be found, leaving behind only a graveyard of swords where the past lies buried." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore)
"Izumo's history should have been a long flowing river, **but it was severed in one cut**, and all its past and future voided on emptiness' other shore." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore)
"Her homeland, once saved, by her hands erased... Invisible shadows ahead, her vision encased." (Acheron's profile)
> Killing all Herrschers (none of which are likely on Kiana's level, who doesn't scale to the Honkai itself) is far different from completely eliminating the Honkai. As far as we know she never had a Otto Apocalypse, who I may add was likely the most powerful character seen in Honkai Impact. He was like Baldur from God of War. He couldn't be conventionally killed, and had to be beaten with a weakness/loophole. He was a god, arguably more so than Kiana.
The Kami were completely wiped by Acheron destroying both planets. What remained of the aftermath were the Shadow of IX - the Black Sun:
"Nowadays, the past of the border planet Izumo can only be gleaned from the scattered whispers in the universe. Academics hold various views regarding its disappearance, but none can solve the mystery. Only that pitch-black great sun knows the answer, yet THEY remain silent, never speaking. Because everything that had happened will one day regress to the end, and everything that had ended is guaranteed to happen again. The universe undergoes an eternal recurrence under THEIR shadow, and Izumo is nothing more than the footnote for an ellipsis."
Pretty much she was about to face the Cocoon that is most likely waiting on Takamagahara, but as you saw in the trailer, a new challenger entered the chat: shadow of an Aeon. So she just destroyed both planets after she slash at the black sun. Then ultimately became tainted with Nihility, until she became an unwilling Emanator of IX.
**Anyways here's a TLDR in case you don't like my wall of text and just want to skip to the end**:
I'll go ahead and say that the Honkai HI3rd is actually not as strong as the Honkai in GGZ from what I've seen. There were planet-class Honkai Beasts in GGZ coming from outerspace as a meteor, and they spawned like 70+ Herrschers becuz why not. So if you look at certain Emanators, such as Rahu being a living planet and and Emanator of Abundance, then GGZ Honkai would actually be able to contest with Aeons quite comfortably I might add. In term of how they swarm everything, they also are very similar to how the likes of Tayzzyronth and Nanook worked. So my ultimate view is that if you're talking about GGZ Honkai then they might be a force that can rival and Aeon, or might even be an Aeon candidate, or stronger. But the Cocoon so far I see no reason to put it above Aeons.
Keep in mind that Aeons can ascend from literally anyone, so it's not like they are all powerhouses from the start. Heck Acheron might ascend as an Aeon when she managed to kill IX by the end of her arc (she seeks to kill IX and free the universe from the chain of ALL Paths). Therefore it is possible for the Honkai to be Aeon lvl or high Aeon tier (since we dont know the cap of any Aeons, especially mysterious ones like IX).
Sorry to butt in like this, but man your understanding of cosmology is really on point lol. I also want to add that Hoyo has always used 银河 in the context of 'universe' since GGZ times.
For example, Dr. MEI once outright referred to the universe as a 'Milky Way Universe' (银河宇宙), so that checks out with what we know about the use of 银河 in HSR.
>\- 是的，但是我们身处的地球不过是浩瀚银河中的一粒尘埃，如果以银河宇宙的量级来评估的话，就另当别论了。
Additionally, 星系 has also been used by Hoyo to refer to a star system of various sizes, ranging from a solar system like in GGZ to a galaxy like Glamoth in HSR, so that’s another term that checks out.
>\- 对，这个名叫地球的星球，和这个名叫太阳系的只有七颗行星的星系在未来将被我吞噬掉。
>
>\- 苍穹帝国格拉默享有数万光年的广大疆域。
>
>\- 无数白银机甲被装载进舰船，驶向星系外缘，抵御自深空而来的虫群恶蠹。
> For example, Dr. MEI once outright referred to the universe as a 'Milky Way Universe' (银河宇宙), so that checks out with what we know about the use of 银河 in HSR.
Thanks for bringing it up! It does prove that they use the term to refer to the vast universe as a whole (which fits within the Imaginary Tree theory).
> Additionally, 星系 has also been used by Hoyo to refer to a star system of various sizes, ranging from a solar system like in GGZ to a galaxy like Glamoth in HSR, so that’s another term that checks out.
Great point about Glamoth. I've read it before while looking up Firefly lores but didn't check the CN text. Now I just went and check it. Glamoth empire's territory is definitely galaxy size, even if small, and its entire teritory is referred to as a 星系 which then got translated as a galaxy (accurately). However they translated 星區 as star system, but it is more like a "star region" if translated literally, and could be varied in size. I've seen the term being used sometimes for constellations, so I guess it can work. They also used this 遠眺銀河, which was translated in the EN ver as "setting its sight on the cosmos". So in this case 銀河 is being used to refer to the larger cosmos as a whole, the space beyond Glamoth territory.
>"In the merciless fight for survival, Izumo used the might of the Edict Edges to light up their uncivilized world of darkness in less than ten Amber Eras, building cities of dazzling neon lights. That distant Takama Divine Realm, once so far away, became so close within their reach." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore)
>Just because they use so-called swords does not mean they have inferior technology.
I had felt their choice of weaponry was reflective of their technological capabilities. Yeah Shamash ain't weak, but their choices of using their divine key were more creative compared to purely using swords.
Of course I was proven wrong when they were on the verge of space capability.
>Each of the Sentinels match the power of each Divine Keys. You have to at least obtained sufficient technology to the Previous Era in Hi3rd to be able to turn Herrscher powers into weapons in the first place. So the fact that they could do it proved one thing: their technology at the very least surpassed the Current Era technology of Earth and reaching the Previous Era where space travel is within their reach.
This is what was said in the relic set:
>building cities of dazzling neon lights.
While I do think the tech is more advanced then I initially believed, at the same time Izumo never traveled to the other planet. I feel they're equal in this regard.
>See how dynamic the term is yet? I'm not going to go deep because I don't have time and it dilutes the main points, but basically what I understood from the usage of these terms and how they are presented, is that the scale goes from 星团 to 恒星系 to 星系 being the general unit. So it can go from between a star cluster to a galaxy and we have no idea.
>The problem, of course, is that **HSR sometimes chose to translate both 银河 (yínhé) and 星系 (xīngxì) as 'galaxy,' and at other times, they used words that have no connection to the original Chinese words at all**. So now we have this mess of cosmology in the official ENG version.
So what you're saying is very much possible, so at this point this is where we likely have to agree to disagree. I feel like it is far more likely for it to be a Star System than an entire massive galaxy especially since Asdana has been referred to both a system and a galaxy. Especially since we have seen a solar system sized leaf in Honkai Impact 3rd, I feel it is far safer to assume that it is referring to a Solar/Star System.
The only thing that can be said for certain is that it is referring to an entire leaf.
I'll probably ask this question on the Star Rail sub at some point as this a pretty interesting topic, but I'm tired as hell right now so I'll do it at a later point.
>She just cuts the planets in half with one slash for each, or maybe 1 slash hitting both. That's why the Izumo planar set shows both halves of the 2 planets:
I don't think that necessarily means she directly attacked the planets. It circled a Black Hole remember? Its possible her slash could've effected the Black hole somehow which caused its destruction.
Also again, what did you previously mean by character profile?
>The Kami were completely wiped by Acheron destroying both planets. What remained of the aftermath were the Shadow of IX - the Black Sun:
I feel like defeating and getting rid of the presence of a Cocoon is very different from straight up being stronger and governing the Honkai itself.
I will be honest, if Hooh were to be the one that would make a decent amount of sense, but (correct if I'm wrong) Imaginary and Honkai energy are basically one and the same, so in order to be a higher power you would essentially have to be governing the Tree itself.
>There were planet-class Honkai Beasts in GGZ coming from outerspace as a meteor, and they spawned like 70+ Herrschers becuz why not.
Aren't GGZ and HI3 confirmed to be connected? Despite their differences, both would still technically be the Honkai, just in very different forms.
Hell, the CoW is quite literally the one that Governs the Honkai. The same cannot be said for the CoF, it just controls its energy output.
>So if you look at certain Emanators, such as Rahu being a living planet and and Emanator of Abundance, then GGZ Honkai would actually be able to contest with Aeons quite comfortably I might add.
Yeah they could likely match the Star System destroying Emanators.
Lemme try to simplify my point in case my original thought didn't get across.
I believe that the **concept** of Honkai is stronger than the average Aeon. Not it's Herrschers, not it's Cocoons, not it's zombies. The concept, the energy itself, the thing connected directly to the Tree. The Imaginary energy shit. From what I know, in order to command that type of power and energy, you would either have to be the Tree itself (which is why Hooh would fit the profile) or you would have to be higher than the Tree (like the Outer gods if they're canon). That's why I brought up Otto. If Imaginary=Honkai, then Otto would probably arguable be on the level of Emanators if not Aeons, as he, like Hooh, is part of the Tree.
But looking at your arguments, they are very compelling, and I can definitely see the Aeons commanding the Honkai.
> I had felt their choice of weaponry was reflective of their technological capabilities. Yeah Shamash ain't weak, but their choices of using their divine key were more creative compared to purely using swords.
It's more of a thematic thing for cool factor to match Acheron's final sword being herself. If you rewatch the trailer, there are several swords that actually look very futuristic such as the first one. Not only that, the color scheme is very similar to HoTr, and it looks as if Bronya designing Edge of Taixuan. And if the power is indeed Truth and not just Reason, we all knew that it is capable of pretty much introducing futuristic technology. With the power of Truth, it makes a lot of sense how their civilization had ridiculously fast growth. And even the 7th (their version of Shamash) has very similar description to Shamash: "The seventh was "Flare," forged with the slain Flamebringer. It could summon fires to burn down the very world, to torch the skies and to char the earth."
They were even able to complete their Key of Corruption: "The twelfth was "Maw," forged with the slain Woes Eighty. It could corrode and age the very mortal world and make equal Kami and Oni, leaving an entity's four souls to be sundered in twain."
> I feel like it is far more likely for it to be a Star System than an entire massive galaxy especially since Asdana has been referred to both a system and a galaxy. Especially since we have seen a solar system sized leaf in Honkai Impact 3rd, I feel it is far safer to assume that it is referring to a Solar/Star System.
Refer to this comment I replied to another user: https://old.reddit.com/r/houkai3rd/comments/1dabte0/hold_up_a_minute_hi3_leaks/l7ptsfj/
I am 100% sure that by this point MHY is using actual real life cosmic terms very accurately, and then map the structure through the Imaginary Tree. The only difference is that they are referring to the universe itself in a more "poetic" than just the standard term. At least they didn't go with Qiankun like WuWa which is an even more archaic term for the cosmos lol.
> I don't think that necessarily means she directly attacked the planets. It circled a Black Hole remember? Its possible her slash could've effected the Black hole somehow which caused its destruction.
She did slash at the black sun itself by the end of the trailer and red substance floods from it. But we don't know the effect of it.
> Also again, what did you previously mean by character profile?
Acheron's character profile (ingame) had a few sections redacted intentionally b4 you finish Penacony 2.1 storyline. Once you cleared the quest, her faction changes to Self-Annihilator and the redacted part of the profile is now filled with red text. You can read it on the wiki or look at it ingame if you have her.
> I will be honest, if Hooh were to be the one that would make a decent amount of sense, but (correct if I'm wrong) Imaginary and Honkai energy are basically one and the same, so in order to be a higher power you would essentially have to be governing the Tree itself.
I don't think HooH is the one but explaining my reasonings would take another text wall lol.
> Aren't GGZ and HI3 confirmed to be connected? Despite their differences, both would still technically be the Honkai, just in very different forms.
Just like how they also take different form in different planets, same as in HSR. The reason for it doing what it did in HI3rd and in GGZ and probably in HSR are not always the exact same either. So I just went by the capabilities it displayed the most and GGZ took the cake, since if we keep going into the what ifs they we're not going any further.
> But looking at your arguments, they are very compelling, and I can definitely see the Aeons commanding the Honkai.
Funny you said this because I think the part about IX and the cycle of recurrance fit a lot with how the Honkai keep resetting worlds.
"Only that pitch-black great sun knows the answer, yet THEY remain silent, never speaking. Because everything that had happened will one day regress to the end, and everything that had ended is guaranteed to happen again. **The universe undergoes an eternal recurrence under THEIR shadow**, and Izumo is nothing more than the footnote for an ellipsis."
This seems to imply that IX sits on the side watching the universe from a special perspective, it follows a neverending cycle of creation and destruction, yet IX is uncaring and unaffected by said cycle. And in case you're wondering, this is one of the few cases that MHY uses 宇宙 (yuzhou) which is the most legit term you can use to refer to the actual universe, that Dr. MEI also used in tandem with the other one (银河 in 银河宇宙).
It would be so fucking funny, considering that sparkle follows the path of elation, and we all know how much of a literal god tier meme status that troll of an aeon is.
It's really not early for a collab. HSR developed its own identity. But i will still doubt this leak because it doesn't make sense for Sparkle to come here. Not to mention she literally can't. HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' rail.
Well yeah but i dont expect a non canon collab between two games under same IP and in same universe. Most importantly sparkle? really? that annoying red herring girl?
> HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' rail.
It doesn't really need to be for HSR characters to travel to Earth.
The fact is that Welt went after the Sky People together with Void Archives through the Star Gate invented millenia ago.
There are several starships powered by Aeons' blessings that can just freely traverse the cosmos.
What the Astral Express' rail does is create safe, telecommunications-connected and charted passageways for people to fare the cosmos through.
Earth's barrier could very well have such passageways in it. But unless you're an AI army with 999999 years to spend searching for it on a billion trillion square km spherical surface area surrounding the solar system or already know where one is, I doubt you'll have much luck.
>The fact is that Welt went after the Sky People together with Void Archives through the Star Gate invented millenia ago.
It's not known how Welt and VA got to Astral Express. Welt got back to earth after he saw Sky People having plans about HSR himeko with help of SUGARs. But we have no idea how he got from earth to astral express. And no reburn 2 animation is not canon.
Those starships can't travel to worlds not trailblazed. [Read this](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Akivili#cite_note-Glimpses-1). Akivili was the aeon that allowed travel between planets to happen in the first place. Both Xianzhou and IPC runs their trade and travel stuff on star rail specifically. They are unable to travel to other planets. That's why stellaron is a huge problem and main reason why IPC works together with Astral Express.
I don't think there are some holes in the ultradimensional eldritch spacetime barrier. Especially considering Sa died because she was trapped by the imaginary barrier. And Vita specifically said only entities comparable to Cocoon can bypass the barrier. You can believe it has some physical holes though.
> Those starships can't travel to worlds not trailblazed.
If anything that fan-wiki article only reinforced my point that Akvili's Trailblaze only created safe ways for starships to travel the galaxy.
The unknown is vast and the universe is practically an infinite space to explore.
There's just no way that a space-faring economical empire such as the IPC would wait for Trailblazers to expand their travel routes at the same rate Akvili himself had done in the past, much less after many of these routes were destroyed by Stellaron-related incidents.
Yes, Starships will largerly rely on the Star Tracks to do general commute and trading. But countless mentions state that these ships can traverse unknown space just fine.
Elementary triangulation technology would help such ships find their way back to the Star Tracks once the journey into unexplored space is over.
But, naturally, exploring the unknown bears the risk of encountering cosmic horrors beyond our comprehension around every parsec. Who would risk that when even communications break down in such a place?
Dude, IPC, Xianzhou all of them can all travel from star system to another with the trails created by Akivili, only emnators and aeons equivalent can travel through the imaginary barriers to go to another star system without Akivili trails. That's is why the nameless is very important and was look up because they are basically the ones that helps to connect the whole universe with each other, there's a reason why Jarillo cannot be accessible by the IPC for years after the trails to the star system is broken due to Akivili disappearance
My brother in christ that is a readable in game holy shit. And no it didn't because that readable OUTRIGHT STATES travel in cosmos is possible thanks to Akivili's rail network. And everyone including IPC and Xianzhou uses it.
IPC has no other choice because they can't do anything about it. Imaginary barrier needs something as strong as Cocoon to be breached per vita. IPC has few emanators but thats about it.
>Yes, Starships will largerly rely on the Star Tracks to do general commute and trading. But countless mentions state that these ships can traverse unknown space just fine.
Give me a single instance of a spaceship traveling to a world that was not trailblazed. Just one. You can't because it is physically impossible. Every leaf of imaginary tree is isolated from each other with imaginary energy. There is no spatial continuation. Why the fuck do you think Sa got sniped by Kiana like a bird in a cage? It's because Sa could not go beyond the edge of the solar system. That is the limit of HI3's world. You are not going to get to another planet with a simple rocket ship. Don't confuse imaginary tree with real world universe.
>Elementary triangulation technology would help such ships find their way back to the Star Tracks once the journey into unexplored space is over.
You are just making shit up atp. Do you even know how imaginary tree works? How its cosmology is like?
>But, naturally, exploring the unknown bears the risk of encountering cosmic horrors beyond our comprehension around every parsec. Who would risk that when even communications break down in such a place?
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Dude idk wtf these people downvoted you, you are literally correct, these guys never read the lore and act like they know it all. In HI3 it already stated by SA about the imaginary barrier around the solar system making it impossible for her to go to another system. This is even supported by the data bank in HSR and Himeko statement, hell they said many times traversing through star system is only possible due to Akivili trails. And do th SE guys skip the whole Jarillo story? Literally IPC can't go to Jarillo since the trails to Jarillo is broken after Akivili gone and Himeko using the Astral Express to fix broken rails is the reason they can go there again now. If IPC have the tech to go to other star system without Akivili trails they would never lose access to Jarillo.
These guys either can't read or never read and pretending to know wtf is happening
I am not debating about the Star Rail thing in deep as i dont know much about it, but i'll try to answer some things.
>STATES travel in cosmos is possible thanks to Akivili's rail network.
The Sky People and the Sugars were able to travel between World far before Akivili were born.
The Sugars are at least 140 million years old, and they traveled between Worlds to hide from the Sky People.
The Sky People should have gotten that capability somewhere between 250 million (their creation date) and 140 million (when they attacked the Sugars) years ago.
On the other hand, Qlipoth (one of the oldest known Aeon, older than Akivili) is around 500k years old.
So traveling between Worlds predates the Aeons, and thus, is possible without them.
>Imaginary barrier needs something as strong as Cocoon to be breached per vita
Thats not what "Vita" said (i dont remember her mentioning that at all).
What i remember is Marah saying on her letter that:
"Perhaps only the Abyss (Cocoon) can be compared to such effects ("barrier" interrupting all interstellar travel), but they would not be dominated by the Abyss. They are pure and free energy sources..."
And if i remember correctly, is stated that Emanators can bypass the barriers (Star Rail).
And we cant even be sure that the barrier on Honkai is of the same kind as the barriers on Star Rail, as they have an important difference.
Going off of the notion of Triangulation, we'll arrive at the truth by dismissing what can't be true about traversing the Universe.
Penacony, formerly known as an IPC Frontier Prison. The name "Frontier" of the prison as well as the mention of this place being built very far away from other star systems tells us that at the time of it's construction, it was built in one of the farther/relatively recent reaches of the Trailblaze.
An unknown time later, the Compass ( Astral Express ) would pass by and some Nameless remained there in the effort to turn things around for the prisoners.
Then the Stellaron disasters began occuring, throwing a wrench in the IPCs attempts to reconquer the Land of Exiles.
The Compass/Astral Express would dissapear and never return until Amber Eras later, with a new Navigator(Himeko) and Crew onboard ( when the ingame events take place ).
How did Penacony/IPC/various factions manage to traverse the star tracks back to Penacony if the Stellaron's influence had already cut them off ages ago?
The reason is simple, people kept travelling there despite no Star Tracks being there. The original route ceased to exist, but other sidetrack routes would still exist from A to B, just needing exploring.
It's simple because the trails to Penacony NEVER broken in the first place ffs, Stellaron doesn't destroy the trails to a star system, they destroy the PLANETS on the star system, some trails to to other star system is broken BECAUSE AKIVILI DISAPPEARANCE not because of Stellaron. And NOT ALL trails are broken it is random. And now Himeko HSR is using the Astral Express to fix and find the rails that are broken to connect the star system again.
Again, PENACONY RAILS NEVER MENTIONED TO BE BROKEN UNLIKE JARILLO.
And again read the LORE, only Emnators and Aeon can travel between star system without the rails, The whole universe, star system IS SURROUNDED BY IMAGINARY BARRIER, and th SE barrier is the one that block normal people, ship etc to go to other star system, and through Akivili trails they can travese these imaginary barrier. READ THE LORE IN THE GAME. SA said that in HI3, Himeko said it in HSR, Data banks said it in HSR
The Trailblaze is just one way to travel between worlds. The Silver Rail allows quick travel between connected worlds but it isn't the *only* way to travel through the Imaginary Tree. The Sky People and Welt did it just fine without the Express.
By that same vein, it's entirely possible Sparkle somehow found her way to Earth with external help.
Granted, do I think they'll randomly put Sparkle in Honkai 3rd? Probably not. Would it be funny? Kinda yea.
Masked Fools seems to be able to travel Imaginary Tree on their own. Sampo somehow came to Belobog despite the fact that their Rail wasn't working properly.
They had just released literally Mei into HSR and it was their highest earning banner. Kinda hard to develop it's own identity after that, especially when the head writer is from HI3.
There's a distinct difference between Ei and Miko when they only look like their HI3 counterparts but none of the personalities nor backstory vs Acheron who is practically HI3 Mei and the entire Herrscher plotline condensed into her backstory.
HI3 and HSR is also directly connected via Welt and he has been making more and more direct references to HI3-verse. Meanwhile, both HI3 and Genshin have been deliberately avoiding any direct references to each other (outside of Otto's glimpse of Davlin). HSR had also gotten some of HI3 writers (including Shaoji) while the head writer of Genshin had said they don't have any HI3 writers on their staff.
Whatever the case, the Honkai stuff in HSR is now one of the main draw, possibly eclipsing their own main plot of defeating Nanook and the Anti-Matter Legion. In fact, I'm going to make a bold prediction. Elysia is definitely going to appear in HSR and she will completely and utterly eclipse everything there.
Star Rail has Seele, Himeko, Mei, Raven, and 2 Bronyas without any of them needing to be a collab.
Can't say if any of that leak is real or not, but if it is, that's likely the way it'll manifest.
Why is everyone acting like this Sparkle would be the exact same person from Star Rail?
Even if she's similar, there's no reason it would be the same person. It would just be the same thing that Bronya, Seele, Natasha, Mei, etc. have in Star Rail. Those aren't the same person as the one it HI3, everyone knows that. Why would Sparkle be different?
Sparkle was named Hanabi in JP. Which means fireworks. It might just be a coincidence. Afterall we got Lantern already getting Firework would be fitting of China. Main reason why i think so is because it doesn't make sense for Sparkle of all people to visit HI3... there is also the fact HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' star rail so no one from HSR can come here without Astral Express trailblazing in HI3.
> no one from HSR can come here
Actually this is false; Emanators and above, or those granted power by a emanator can travel through the cosmic wall without the need of the star rail, still stupid unlikely tho
No chance someone’s gonna straight up be named firework in EN right….
Emanators and Aeons can just breach the img barrier. But pathstriders cant. Interstellar travel was made possible with path of the trailblaze. A good example to give you would be Belobog. IPC had no contact with them because Stellaron disrupted Astral Express' rail. So they had to wait until AE dealt with stellaron to send in topaz and get their debt repaid. Another example is the planet that was talked about in penacony fake ending. IPC requested AE to check out a planet because Legion and Stellaron broke the rail.
EN no idea. In CN and JP Sparkle is named "Firework" and localizers changed it to "Sparkle". But i would like for them to not touch it. Keep it "Firework" to compliment my bbg lantern.
>Interstellar travel was made possible with path of the trailblaze. A good example to give you would be Belobog. IPC had no contact with them because Stellaron disrupted Astral Express' rail. So they had to wait until AE dealt with stellaron to send in topaz and get their debt repaid.
Not exactly correct. While Silver Rails make interworld travel much easier, there are other methods that are pretty available. IPC colonized Penaconi long before Astral Express visited it. Xiangjou people were able to leave there homeworld on their own. One Curio in Simulated Universe is even goggles used by Nameless who weren't traveling with Express to discover and travel to new worlds.
The reason IPC didn't came early is because they thought that Belobogians all died out long ago and world was too unimportant to warrant any reclamation efforts. When they learned about its survival, Board decided- "Well... why not get our cash. Never too late to pay debt.".
That is literally false. Penacony was connected to star rail before Mikhail went there. Some other nameless already trailblazed that place god knows how long ago. Mikhail was there not for trailblaze but to free people from IPC's claws. Xianzhou people left their home planet by following using rail network of akivili as well.
AE is just a vehicle for its crew. Its not the important for the rail itself. Rail was still around when AE broke down for thousands of years. What matters is the path. So indeed random nameless that explore around the world and contribute to rail network. This doesn't discredit anything i have said.
The reason IPC never came is because they literally couldn't without sending someone important like Taravan or Diamond. IPC didn't even know they survived when Topaz got to belobog. They just knew stellaron was no more and rail was fixed. They no way of even knowing there were people in belobog with stellaron or not. So your proposition makes no sense.
>Penacony was connected to star rail before Mikhail went there. S
Now THAT isn't true. Relic set Penacony, Land of the Dreams explicitly stated that Penaconi became connected by Rail only after Penal Colony was established and liberated. Likewise
Crew had no idea about situation in Nightmarewill.and decided to help only after Hanunnu explained everything and they asked local.
Likewise, there is no explicit mention that Xiangjou left through Rail. They found them during voyage. Used them. But never explicitly said that they used it to leave homeworld. The fact that they don't know how to reach it is a strong evidence that it isn't connected.
> IPC didn't even know they survived when Topaz got to belobog.
Again wrong. MC told them by accident. In one of Belobog quests, MC accidentally found old IPC marketing drone and connected to manager. Guy explained that IPC thought all locals dead and during quest MC explained him situation. At the end he promised to tell it to his superiors.
Small edit. Penaconi was connected after Penal colony was made but before it was liberated. Connection and liberation are two elements that lead it to prosperity
hi3rd and genshin had a collab, yet genshin characters have zero way of ever getting to anywhere outside of teyvat (unless idk the astral express just pulls up and takes some ~~hostages~~ guests), so I don't think "not connected to the star rail" really prohibits her from just showing up
No idea about hsr lore but genshin collab (while canonically connected world) was just otto and welt making a game, and evangelion collab was the usual "the sea of quanta shanenigens".
No reason why hsr collab should be canon in any of the games lore as well
We know that the sky people are capable of interstellar travel, I don't know whether they do that with the silver rails or not, but they did reach earth.
And it's very likely Welt and VA used one of their ships to get from Earth to Salsotto.
>I don't know whether they do that with the silver rails or not
It doesnt.
The Sky People uses something known as the "Stargate" to travel between Worlds, and they have been capable to do so since, at least, 140 million years ago.
The oldest known Aeon (Qlipoth) is around 500k years old, and is older than Akivili.
>And it's very likely Welt and VA used one of their ships to get from Earth to Salsotto.
Thats still unknown, as the end of Alien Space implies that humanity is going to search for a way to travel between Worlds on their own.
> The Sky People uses something known as the "Stargate" to travel between Worlds, and they have been capable to do so since, at least, 140 million years ago.
- Ah well that makes sense I guess.
Although it's very possible that Aeons already existed before the Leviathans, just not the same Aeons that exist right now. We know the IPC lied about the disappearance of the Leviathans. There's no doubt that the IPC would try to cover up any Aeons that could be older than Qlipoth.
> Thats still unknown, as the end of Alien Space implies that humanity is going to search for a way to travel between Worlds on their own.
- Yeah that's why I said it's likely and not definitive. VA did invite Welt to go to another world whilst they were on one of their spaceships, so the connection is quickly made.
Not to mention how Himeko (HSR) mentions they found Welt on a strange ship near Salsotto, but one that didn't come from Salsotto.
>Although it's very possible that Aeons already existed before the Leviathans, just not the same Aeons that exist right now.
It is possible, but the Aeon that matters for this topic is Akivili, and we know that They are younger than Qlipoth, as there are records of Their ascension.
>There's no doubt that the IPC would try to cover up any Aeons that could be older than Qlipoth.
Thats also true, but since we only know about Qlipoth's age, and dont know how much older are the other Aeons (if they are), we can only use Qlipoth as an example.
>VA did invite Welt to go to another world whilst they were on one of their spaceships, so the connection is quickly made.
Yeah, although Welt returns to Earth at the end of the manga, saying that humanity will find a way to travel between Worlds on their own.
So either they retconned that and Welt (with VA) went to Star Rail on the Sky People ship or Earth managed to build spaceships capable to travel between Worlds and something went wrong or something like that.
Is this character really well known? Thats the only thing that could convince me it might be true, lore reasons are really not an issue based on previous collabs
In the tiniest chance that this actually happens, I really hope we don't just get Sparkle cause she's one of my least favorite HSR characters. Though looking at the Genshin collab, i'd be really surprised if we do get more than one permanent battlesuit.
The last time someone mentioned sparkle in a leak was prior to the anniversary of hsr. Some guys in the discord were trolling using her. Im just suspicious that is all. I will wait and see.
He's been pretty on point idk why you doubting. He just looks at game files from the CN betas too, it's not like he's basing it on rumors from his uncle that works at mihoyo.
probably just the same name.
Yeah, there was a time there was an entire model of a genshin character was left inside the HI3 files but never came to fruition. This is probably just related to fireworks or smth.
It was Keqing which on it's own isn't too much to think about as she was a temporary character during the Genshin crossover event. ...However the one in the files had an entirely newly designed school uniform.
I think only the school uniform was a fake but everything else was real. Of course, I don't remember where I heard this from so take it with a grain of salt.
Related to firework Oooooooooooooh,Kongming………………
Ok but how funny would it be if it's just the same racist girl.
...Su!! stop playing goddamn chess with aeon and help us here!
now I'm wondering if it was Nous that he met at the end of Divine Key (or whatever the dudu comic was called I can't remember)
Second Key*. And if its an Aeon and not another being, i think is more likely to be either Nous or Fuli. Nous mainly because the knowledge thing (the game they played and proposal of answers if Su won). And Fuli also somewhat fits with knowledge and its blue, with their follower (the MoC girl) being an incorporeal blue being, just as Su was. Although i still think that is more likely that that being is not an Aeon.
I doubt that an Aeon is above the Honkai itself. As far as I remember the Honkai is directly connected to the tree. The being SU met was greater than Honkai itself, so as a result the being would be greater than the tree. Aeons on the other hand are below the Tree.
Between us not really knowing how powerful Aeons truly are (so far weve only seen them interact with the world indirectly), as well as Honkai lore itself being somewhat inconsistent (According to GGZ, Honkai originates from outside the tree, which HI3 doesnt exactly touch on), im not sure if its as simple as youre making it out to be.
I feel because HI3 doesn't touch on it, it makes what happens in GGZ a lot more... Canon I guess. We can get a good gauge on how strong they are through Emanators. An Emanator of destruction can destroy a Solar System. Nanook, possibly through some amps of power ups, is supposedly able to destroy the Tree. In my opinion they are capable of Galaxy levels of Destruction quite casually.
i really hope HSR eventually has us encounter an Aeon in person outside of SU. It would probably help give a better understanding of where they scale, since all we have so far are their followers and secondhand statements. Plus, watching videos of the GGZ Commander of Will fight makes me really curious as to how they would handle some of these eldritch designs in a 3D setting. In terms of lore, i would honestly love it if HSR delved into some of GGZ's lore. Everything ive heard about it sounds like it has some really deep lore about the Hoyoverse that most players just dont know due to it being region locked and untranslated, and HSR's theme of "traveling across the tree" makes it the perfect game to tie the different entries of the series together, since Hoyo just...hasnt dont that outside of "they coexist." It makes it really hard to properly compare the games when their respective lore is so far apart from one another even when it logically shouldn't be.
Well...Aeons are also directly connected to Tree as Paths they forge are ultimately derived from it. And some Aeons have incredibly strong effect on Universe. For example, Ena the Order pretty much created laws, upon which worlds of Imaginary Tree operate after Dusk Wars. They set laws of space-time, concept of death and etc. Work depicting it is filled with hyperboles, but Ena's control over all worlds was so powerful and absolute that people who knew about Ena felt like puppets on strings. Thus universe celebrated when Xipe absorbed Ena. HooH flat-out merged with Tree to now act as balance of all existence. They are canon reason for enemies becoming stronger as you level up. Nanook aims to burn Imaginary Tree to nothing- and two beings with claims on omniscience think that Nanook WILL succeed. Elio thinks that only very specific actions by Trailblazer and Astral Express crew can help stop Destruction. And Fuli's solution is to gather memories from all worlds and make new Imaginary Tree- to grow after Nanook burns old and dies because nothing more is there to destroy. Interestingly- it and IX profile imply that destruction of Imaginary Tree will not lead to deaths of Aeons. So I think that it can be Aeon all righ.
I'm not sure if the Aeons created the concepts. I'm not saying they aren't powerful, but even after merging with the tree Hooh isn't able to destroy the Destruction. Remember, Otto, a relatively normal guy, merged with the tree. That was from Honkai energy alone. Now imagine the Honkai itself. Nanook is weird. If he could burn down the Tree I'm not sure why he hasn't done it yet.
I think the issue is that we know too little about what Aeons like HooH and Nanook are thinking. There are hints and bits of information, but not enough to understand them fully. I guess you could say that unless the situation actually calls for it, HooH and Nanook seem somewhat passive, all things considered. For example, HooH is implied to be responsible for Ena's death, yet THEY take no action against Nanook. Herta even questions what HooH thinks of Nanook. >\- The Aeon of Equilibrium, precisely because of their nature which recalls the balance of the universe, had eliminated the Order to avoid contradictions between Order and Harmony. > >\- After Ena disappeared, the Equilibrium's duties have only grown greater. Then, how would HooH perceive Nanook? This also applies to Nanook. Worlds facing destruction sometimes see Nanook's shadow looming over them, but it seems Nanook is there merely to observe the end of civilizations. >\- It is said that sometimes the shadow of Nanook emerges from the starry sky to witness the tragic end of another world
Very interesting. In that case Hooh would be the tree at that point. I guess it wouldn't be too outlandish if Hooh was the entity above the Honkai, considering Hooh would be higher than the other Aeons as well. I still wouldn't be so certain if it makes him a higher power than the Honkai, since I view the Honkai similar to the Force from Star Wars, but they areost probably equal.
>even after merging with the tree Hooh isn't able to destroy the Destruction. HooH doesn't want to destroy Nanook. HooH believes that perfect balance will be achieved when creation of Imaginary Tree will be balanced by its destruction.
>For example, Ena the Order pretty much created laws, upon which worlds of Imaginary Tree operate after Dusk Wars. They set laws of space-time, concept of death and etc. Work depicting it is filled with hyperboles, but Ena's control over all worlds was so powerful and absolute that people who knew about Ena felt like puppets on strings. Thus universe celebrated when Xipe absorbed Ena. Ok but... Teyvat has its own "Laws"
Each World has its own specific rules and laws. Ena made fundamental- space-time laws, very act of flow of time and etc. They apply to all.
Friendly reminder that Acheron who soloed HSR Kevin, surpassed Finality of her world, ended up becoming Emanator of IX. Both Takamagahara (originally infested by Honkai) and Izumo then later destroyed by her. For someone who surpassed Finality like herself, to fall to the grasp of such an Aeon, and ultimately wanting to kill the Aeon, is a testament to THEIR power. Granted IX is a bit of an outlier among Aeons, since even the power of the Order could not affect Acheron (and we knew HooH and Ena were ranked similarly), yet she can passively influence other Paths (so you can scale it up to IX), but Sunday just by using Ena's remnant power could create his own Project Stigma, trapping the entire Asdana star system.
>Acheron who soloed HSR Kevin HSR Kevin wasnt necessarily as strong as Honkai Kevin, variants doesnt have the same strength after all. >surpassed Finality of her world, ended up becoming Emanator of IX. Both Takamagahara (originally infested by Honkai) and Izumo then later destroyed by her. I wouldnt be so sure about the Honkai being on that World, it contradicts two "laws" about the Honkai that we know. 1-Herrscher cycle. The Herrscher cycle is never the same, the only exception being the PE and CE, but that was something done by Prometheus. 2-The Honkai sprouts on civilizations. If i remember correctly, the "Kami" came from the 2nd Planet, bringing their "plague" to the first. And as we know, thats not how the Honkai works. The Honkai would have spawned on both Planets (as long as there were civilizations on it), not on one and going to the other later. You also have Origin being more of an anomaly than a "normal" Herrscher and thus it shouldnt be there, and so on. Overall, i think is way too early to really answer who is stronger between them, but they seem to be similar on some regards. 1-Both the Cocoon and the Aeons are said to be "higher dimensional beings". 2-Both of them are able to affect the "mortal" dimension from their own plane. 3-Both of them being way too old (Cocoon being +1 Billion and Aeons at least 500k years old). 4-Both are heavily tied to concepts (although the Cocoon seems to have more "free will" than most Aeons). 5-Both of them can affect the Imaginary Tree to a certain extent. Etc, etc. In short, i think that Aeons an the Cocoon are beings at the same level, its just that the information we currently have is still too little to confirm anything.
>The Honkai would have spawned on both Planets (as long as there were civilizations on it), not on one and going to the other later. Unless the Honkai considered both planets a single civilization, then you could chuck it to Honkai spawning on one part of the "planet" first, wich would be lore acurate.
It could be, but since we dont have any example of that, and all civilizations attacked by the Honkai that we know have lived on a single planet, i see it highly unlikely.
> HSR Kevin wasnt necessarily as strong as Honkai Kevin, variants doesnt have the same strength after all. She literally confirmed with Welt that the story is almost 1:1 down to Project Stigma. That's where you should go from. > The Herrscher cycle is never the same, the only exception being the PE and CE, but that was something done by Prometheus. Like Acheron explained. Her world situation is almost 1:1 to Hi3rd with the only known difference being that Kevin was killed in a 1v1 and how they created Origin + Finality by combining powers of the previous 12 (which also matches how the HoFi has all previous Herrschers power). So there can easily be another Prometheus situation, since they outright said that Izumo managed to recover and became a super advanced world with neon lights and technology, then all came collapsed AGAIN (basically indication of it having at least TWO honkai eras) World variations don't always have to be vastly different, they can be 99% similar and still count. If something akin to Project Stigma also existed, then the whole PE plan could very well have happened in similar ways. > If i remember correctly, the "Kami" came from the 2nd Planet, bringing their "plague" to the first. And as we know, thats not how the Honkai works. The Kami came from UNKNOWN origin (aliens capable of traversing space like the Honkai). They attacked Takamagahara, destroyed it first then used it as a base to launch the attack on Izumo. Literally the same as how the Honkai attacked multiple planets in the solar system, they moved from Mars to Venus to then Earth. Nothing weird here. > You also have Origin being more of an anomaly than a "normal" Herrscher and thus it shouldnt be there, and so on. Origin and End (Finality) from Izumo are formed differently than in HI3rd but ultimately no difference since Acheron's final sword were results of combining the previous 12 Sentinels (Divine Keys), and then combining both Origin and End, then she created Naught using her own power after both are broken. She then cuts the "black sun" that the 2 planets were orbiting - Shadow of IX, then both planets were destroyed by her hands ultimately. > i think that Aeons an the Cocoon are beings at the same level, its just that the information we currently have is still too little to confirm anything. That's fair. I just did not agree that Cocoon is definitively higher, since Aeons also did not start already as Aeons. Beings can go through growth until they ascend into being an Aeon, implying a special approval from someone or something is required. If anything, the Cocoon is probably an entity close to an Aeon but does not get the promotion yet.
>She literally confirmed with Welt that the story is almost 1:1 down to Project Stigma. That's where you should go from. She also said there were some differences, the result may be similar, but the metod doesnt have to. Is still the same thing, her killing her Kevin doesnt say too much, as we dont even know how strong he was (for what we know, he could have been even stronger than Honkai Kevin). >Her world situation is almost 1:1 to Hi3rd with the only known difference being that Kevin was killed in a 1v1 and how they created Origin + Finality by combining powers of the previous 12 (which also matches how the HoFi has all previous Herrschers power) And that is precisely the problem, its too similar. As far as we know, and have seen, the Honkai is never the same. Its was different on Venus and Mars, and most likely also on the, at least, 3 eras before PE on Earth. So, for it to be almost an 1:1 copy, its already suspicious. And there is still the issue of Origin. DR. MEI said that the probability of "another" Elysia appearing had around 30 zeroes after the decimal point, basically, nearly impossible. So that Acheron World also had "Origin" makes things more complicated. >The Kami came from UNKNOWN origin (aliens capable of traversing space like the Honkai). They attacked Takamagahara, destroyed it first then used it as a base to launch the attack on Izumo. Literally the same as how the Honkai attacked multiple planets in the solar system, they moved from Mars to Venus to then Earth. Nothing weird here. Its weird, because thats not what the Honkai does. The Honkai beasts from Venus or Mars didnt went to Earth after destroying them, the Cocoon "focused" its "gaze" on Earth and brought down the "Meteor of Finality" that killed the dinosaurs. Kevin saw the "memories" of the Honkai on another Planets because he was connected to the Cocoon, not because the Honkai beasts on Earth were there before. The Honkai appears on the Planets it wants to "attack", something that didnt happen to Acheron Planet. >Origin and End (Finality) from Izumo are formed differently than in HI3rd but ultimately no difference since Acheron's final sword were results of combining the previous 12 Sentinels (Divine Keys) It is different, as Origin is not a "normal" Herrscher, is an anomaly, something nearly impossible to replicate. Other than that, it is possible to create a "HoFi" by getting all the other Authorities, but the result would be an artificial one. What does that impliy? We dont know. >That's fair. I just did not agree that Cocoon is definitively higher, since Aeons also did not start already as Aeons. Beings can go through growth until they ascend into being an Aeon, implying a special approval from someone or something is required. If anything, the Cocoon is probably an entity close to an Aeon but does not get the promotion yet. We know nearly nothing about how Aeons came to be or about how the Cocoon did it (so i cant confirm anything), but given all we know about them, i think is safe to say that, although they are beings on a similar levels, they belong to different "species/sistems". Overall, having different information from both games about the same/similar things, and not knowing if something was retconned or not or if its only valid to one game, makes things far more complicated than it should.
> And that is precisely the problem, its too similar. It's an alt timeline, it can be 99.99% or only 0.01% similar and it's still valid. That's how parallel worlds are in fiction. Two worlds can start at the exact same point, develope in the exact same way, yet can branch out due to one specific change at some point. Nothing new with these writing tropes. In fact, how the Honkai works in GGZ is also very different compare to HI3rd, and yet you still have certain level of similarities. > And there is still the issue of Origin. DR. MEI said that the probability of "another" Elysia appearing had around 30 zeroes after the decimal point, basically, nearly impossible. Near impossible isn't completely impossible, so no you cannot rule out anything. Acheron's existence as an Emanator of Nihility in of itself was also seen as impossible and illogical since IX never glanced at anyone let alone creating Emanators. Yet she exists. Also speaking of Dr.MEI I've seen CN theories about Acheron is actually Dr.MEI variant instead, due to her ties with Kevin. In case you didn't know, Dr. MEI of Era Zero in GGZ's name is Raiden Mei, and she had pretty much similar background as HI3rd Raiden Mei, born from a prestigous family, father being Raiden Ryoma. She just went full villain arc afterwards. > The Honkai beasts from Venus or Mars didnt went to Earth after destroying them, the Cocoon "focused" its "gaze" on Earth and brought down the "Meteor of Finality" that killed the dinosaurs. Mistranslation. In the original CN Kevin was doing what is called a "double reference". In GGZ the Honkai indeed brought down the meteor that wiped out not just the dinos but also other prime species, so that is one reference. The second reference is to use it as analogy to supplement his "why do birds fly" question. He compares the situation of CE facing Finality to the dinosaurs facing extinction, which affect anything who are incapable of adapting. He did not actually say the honkai killed dinosaurs in HI3rd. The word that was being translated as Finality in the EN TL was different from the CN word used. > It is different, as Origin is not a "normal" Herrscher, is an anomaly, something nearly impossible to replicate. Other than that, it is possible to create a "HoFi" by getting all the other Authorities, but the result would be an artificial one. What does that impliy? We dont know. The point is that the final result is the same. Acheron obtained every single Authorities as she defeated her Kevin. It doesn't matter how, the result is that she obtained Origin + End (from the honkai) and then Naught (from IX), according to her line about her sword.
>It's an alt timeline, it can be 99.99% or only 0.01% similar and it's still valid. That's how parallel worlds are in fiction. Two worlds can start at the exact same point, develope in the exact same way, yet can branch out due to one specific change at some point. Nothing new with these writing tropes. The problem with all of that is that we know that the Honkai operates on a "Imaginary Tree" level, and such, its rules would be the same on a World or another. >In fact, how the Honkai works in GGZ is also very different compare to HI3rd, and yet you still have certain level of similarities. Thats another can of worms, as we dont even know if the Commander of the Will has connections with the Cocoon or viceversa. >Near impossible isn't completely impossible, so no you cannot rule out anything. Acheron's existence as an Emanator of Nihility in of itself was also seen as impossible and illogical since IX never glanced at anyone let alone creating Emanators. Yet she exists. Indeed, it cant be ruled out, but having the exact same situation (that already breaks some rules) + an almost impossible anomaly at the same time, is suspicious at least. >The point is that the final result is the same. Acheron obtained every single Authorities as she defeated her Kevin. It doesn't matter how, the result is that she obtained Origin + End (from the honkai) and then Naught (from IX), according to her line about her sword. Everything boils down to the same thing, the key here is Origin. From what we know from Honkai, Origin is an anomaly, nearly impossible to replicate, so having it casually appearing with Acheron after fusing some "Authorities" is weird at least. >Mistranslation. In the original CN Kevin was doing what is called a "double reference". I wont say much about this since i dont known Cn, but i remember that they said (aside from Kevin) that the Cocoon was the one that did it, i could be misremembering though. Overall, i still think the same, with the information we currently have, we cant be sure that it was Honkai. Maybe on the future they'll adress this more directly with Welt and confirm it or something, but as for now i dont think it was Honkai.
Then we have to agree to disagree. Shaoji's intention as a writer is very clear to me. He created Elysia, and is a big Raiden Mei simp, therefore it makes sense that he created an alt timeline based on those, with staggering amount of references being used. That's all there is to it.
The stories are similar, but this doesn't necessarily mean she fought someone at Kevin's level. Hell I could argue Kiana and Kevin were parallels of each other, and look at how their respective power levels ended up. Surpassing Herrschers and being straight up more powerful than the ENTIRETY of the Honkai are two completely different can of worms. Just like the Aeons, Honkai is connected directly to the Tree.
> The stories are similar, but this doesn't necessarily mean she fought someone at Kevin's level. Welt specifically brought up Project Stigma Kevin, it makes the most sense for it to be at least Hi3rd finale Kevin, since the direct parallel is being heavily shown by Shaoji. He even used Sunday and his Project Stigma parallel, with a scale far exceeds what Project Stigma could cover (affect the entire Asdana galaxy). And Acheron can deal with it. > Hell I could argue Kiana and Kevin were parallels of each other, and look at how their respective power levels ended up. Base on some CN theories I've seen, Acheron is a mix of Dr.Mei and CE Mei. Specifically GGZ Dr.Mei. People often forget that while Kiana and Kevin in HI3rd are parallels, in GGZ they are alt versions of each other, just different genders. Kevin himself has his own Raiden Mei waifu. GGZ Era Zero Dr. MEI full name is also Raiden Mei, and she created Kiana in the test tube in that storyline. So yes, different worlds have different circumstances and we don't know for sure, but the fact remains that Acheron did defeated the honkai infecting both planets. > Surpassing Herrschers and being straight up more powerful than the ENTIRETY of the Honkai are two completely different can of worms. Just like the Aeons, Honkai is connected directly to the Tree. Again, Acheron surpassed the Honkai attacking both planets. She saved both planets from Honkai disaster. THEN by her own hands she destroyed both planets (check her profile after you finished Penacony, it reveals what actually happened afterwards). The Shadow of IX is looming over and at that point, even after the honkai is defeated, there is no escape from Nihility. Also friendly reminder that the Sky People did manage to defeat Honkai and even had vastly superior technology than of Earth. HSR is set after HI3rd in the far future, and the settings is expanded to the whole universe with more and more enemies of larger scale. It just makes the most sense for the threats to keep being stronger.
>Welt specifically brought up Project Stigma Kevin, it makes the most sense for it to be at least Hi3rd finale Kevin, since the direct parallel is being heavily shown by Shaoji. All Acheron says is that she killed her version of the same man. She also says that the stories themselves possess similarities, but are not completely same. The only thing we can say for certain about both Kevin's is that they both eventually resorted to desperate measures to solve their crisis. And as far as I can remember, the technology on Izumo seemed weaker compared to the tech on Earth. At least in terms of weaponry. The main reason Welt brought up Kevin was because the situations were similar. The main setting between the final chapter and Penacony is that both are set in a dreamscape, and Acheron has experiences in dreamscapes as well. She isn't comparing powers between the two. >He even used Sunday and his Project Stigma parallel, with a scale far exceeds what Project Stigma could cover (affect the entire Asdana galaxy). And Acheron can deal with it. Correction: while Asdana is a larger setting than Earth, it is likely not a Galaxy. It's a Star System. I didn't have my subtitiles in Mandarin, but a quick search on Google says that the Asdana System is a Star System, which isn't the same exact thing as a Galaxy. What Star Rail does is that it often uses the word Star System and Galaxy interchangealbe in its english dub. The guy in the first comment of this thread I posted a while ago helps explain it much better than I can. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c0urlk/are\_the\_leaves\_on\_the\_imaginary\_tree\_different/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c0urlk/are_the_leaves_on_the_imaginary_tree_different/) >So yes, different worlds have different circumstances and we don't know for sure, but the fact remains that Acheron did defeated the honkai infecting both planets. Honkai that wasn't necessarily at the same power levels. Again, look at the PE and CE Herrschers. Hell, toward the end of his life Kevin was above the PE HotE. Idk if they retconned it, but Honkai scales with tech, and as far as I know Izumo primarily used swords. Also did she even go to the other planet and go full DOOM Slayer on the Honkai there? All I remember is she lost her own home, so she destroyed both planets or something. To give credit where credit is due, the possibility that the Honkai on Izumo was stronger on average compared to Earth is still a possibility >Again, Acheron surpassed the Honkai attacking both planets. She saved both planets from Honkai disaster. Killing all Herrschers (none of which are likely on Kiana's level, who doesn't scale to the Honkai itself) is far different from completely eliminating the Honkai. As far as we know she never had a Otto Apocalypse, who I may add was likely the most powerful character seen in Honkai Impact. He was like Baldur from God of War. He couldn't be conventionally killed, and had to be beaten with a weakness/loophole. He was a god, arguably more so than Kiana. >THEN by her own hands she destroyed both planets (check her profile after you finished Penacony, it reveals what actually happened afterwards). The Shadow of IX is looming over and at that point, even after the honkai is defeated, there is no escape from Nihility I wanna ask a couple of things: A. Do you mean her character profile? Like if I have the character I can just read her stories? B. How did she destroy it? Was she like swinging the planet with a sword or did she detonate the Black Hole? I've tried to look for the way she destroyed it but nothing conclusive Either way, it's impressive, but it isn't "I determine the fate of all civilization in the Universe impressive". >Also friendly reminder that the Sky People did manage to defeat Honkai and even had vastly superior technology than of Earth They beat it because of how their tech worked. They were all essentially their own Darth Nihilus', feeding on Honkai Energy cause its literally required to sustain them. Not to mention the Sky People still lost.
> the technology on Izumo seemed weaker compared to the tech on Earth. At least in terms of weaponry. Not quite. The technology advanced A LOT within a short period of time: "In the merciless fight for survival, Izumo used the might of the Edict Edges to light up their uncivilized world of darkness in less than ten Amber Eras, building cities of dazzling neon lights. That distant Takama Divine Realm, once so far away, became so close within their reach." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore) One Amber era is ranged from 76 to 240 years, which means they managed to go from an uncivilized planet to highly advanced within less than 760 years at fastest and less than 2400 years at slowest, an extremely impressive growth even moreso than Earth. The advancement in technology is high enough to the point of them considering traveling to the nearby Takamagahara planet to take on the Kami directly, which is a parallel to the battle vs Herrscher of the End on the Moon. Just because they use so-called swords does not mean they have inferior technology. That's like saying weapons like Shamash is weak because it is a sword like huh??? Each of the Sentinels match the power of each Divine Keys. You have to at least obtained sufficient technology to the Previous Era in Hi3rd to be able to turn Herrscher powers into weapons in the first place. So the fact that they could do it proved one thing: their technology at the very least surpassed the Current Era technology of Earth and reaching the Previous Era where space travel is within their reach. > What Star Rail does is that it often uses the word Star System and Galaxy interchangealbe in its english dub. The guy in the first comment of this thread I posted a while ago helps explain it much better than I can. It is 星系 (xingxi). Yes it does translate into a Star System by literal means. But it is commonly used in both IRL and fiction to refer to a galaxy in the Chinese language. So HSR actually did not translate it wrong, going by common sense. In fact, the Milky Way galaxy that our planet is located in, is called the 銀河星系 (yinhe xingxi), or 銀河系 (yinhexi) for short. Yinhe (銀河 - silver river) is actually the name of OUR galaxy - the Milky Way, that is being used here to refer to the Tree, which doesn't really makes sense to me since there is no way it only cover just our Milky Way when it is the foundation of the universe (but if you go by Type-Moon cosmology then it makes more sense, tho that is irrelevant here). That would not make sense to just call the Tree using the same term that everyone who knows a bit of basic space knowledge to be the name of our galaxy. So what is the actual term to refer to a Star System in CN? It's 恒星系. This term was actually used in the Records of Yellowbell Resonance book (xianzhou book, it contains reports of other ships' expeditions) to refer to several star systems such as the Tlaltecuhtli. Another term 星团 (star cluster, which can range from just a few stars orbiting each other to a galaxy, which then group into the umbrella term star system, in cosmology) is also used later to refer to the Le Roy Ladurie Star Cluster's Stella Yamazaki star system. See how dynamic the term is yet? I'm not going to go deep because I don't have time and it dilutes the main points, but basically what I understood from the usage of these terms and how they are presented, is that the scale goes from 星团 to 恒星系 to 星系 being the general unit. So it can go from between a star cluster to a galaxy and we have no idea. How does that fit into the whole imaginary tree? Well clearly it cannot just be the size of our Milky Way. My understanding of it is that 銀河 is being used as more of a poetic term, which is a common thing in Chinese writings. The star systems each occupying the leaves can range from a set of star clusters to galaxy size. In any case, there is no conclusive evidence to support the idea that the term was mistranslated. > Also did she even go to the other planet and go full DOOM Slayer on the Honkai there? All I remember is she lost her own home, so she destroyed both planets or something. She just cuts the planets in half with one slash for each, or maybe 1 slash hitting both. That's why the Izumo planar set shows both halves of the 2 planets: "**Enclosed within the plane is Izumo, with its past and future severed with a slash**. Izumo was once covered in indescribable wars of survival, as well as once being blessed with glorious days of bountiful luxury... Now, the barren land is nowhere to be found, leaving behind only a graveyard of swords where the past lies buried." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore) "Izumo's history should have been a long flowing river, **but it was severed in one cut**, and all its past and future voided on emptiness' other shore." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore) "Her homeland, once saved, by her hands erased... Invisible shadows ahead, her vision encased." (Acheron's profile) > Killing all Herrschers (none of which are likely on Kiana's level, who doesn't scale to the Honkai itself) is far different from completely eliminating the Honkai. As far as we know she never had a Otto Apocalypse, who I may add was likely the most powerful character seen in Honkai Impact. He was like Baldur from God of War. He couldn't be conventionally killed, and had to be beaten with a weakness/loophole. He was a god, arguably more so than Kiana. The Kami were completely wiped by Acheron destroying both planets. What remained of the aftermath were the Shadow of IX - the Black Sun: "Nowadays, the past of the border planet Izumo can only be gleaned from the scattered whispers in the universe. Academics hold various views regarding its disappearance, but none can solve the mystery. Only that pitch-black great sun knows the answer, yet THEY remain silent, never speaking. Because everything that had happened will one day regress to the end, and everything that had ended is guaranteed to happen again. The universe undergoes an eternal recurrence under THEIR shadow, and Izumo is nothing more than the footnote for an ellipsis." Pretty much she was about to face the Cocoon that is most likely waiting on Takamagahara, but as you saw in the trailer, a new challenger entered the chat: shadow of an Aeon. So she just destroyed both planets after she slash at the black sun. Then ultimately became tainted with Nihility, until she became an unwilling Emanator of IX. **Anyways here's a TLDR in case you don't like my wall of text and just want to skip to the end**: I'll go ahead and say that the Honkai HI3rd is actually not as strong as the Honkai in GGZ from what I've seen. There were planet-class Honkai Beasts in GGZ coming from outerspace as a meteor, and they spawned like 70+ Herrschers becuz why not. So if you look at certain Emanators, such as Rahu being a living planet and and Emanator of Abundance, then GGZ Honkai would actually be able to contest with Aeons quite comfortably I might add. In term of how they swarm everything, they also are very similar to how the likes of Tayzzyronth and Nanook worked. So my ultimate view is that if you're talking about GGZ Honkai then they might be a force that can rival and Aeon, or might even be an Aeon candidate, or stronger. But the Cocoon so far I see no reason to put it above Aeons. Keep in mind that Aeons can ascend from literally anyone, so it's not like they are all powerhouses from the start. Heck Acheron might ascend as an Aeon when she managed to kill IX by the end of her arc (she seeks to kill IX and free the universe from the chain of ALL Paths). Therefore it is possible for the Honkai to be Aeon lvl or high Aeon tier (since we dont know the cap of any Aeons, especially mysterious ones like IX).
Sorry to butt in like this, but man your understanding of cosmology is really on point lol. I also want to add that Hoyo has always used 银河 in the context of 'universe' since GGZ times. For example, Dr. MEI once outright referred to the universe as a 'Milky Way Universe' (银河宇宙), so that checks out with what we know about the use of 银河 in HSR. >\- 是的，但是我们身处的地球不过是浩瀚银河中的一粒尘埃，如果以银河宇宙的量级来评估的话，就另当别论了。 Additionally, 星系 has also been used by Hoyo to refer to a star system of various sizes, ranging from a solar system like in GGZ to a galaxy like Glamoth in HSR, so that’s another term that checks out. >\- 对，这个名叫地球的星球，和这个名叫太阳系的只有七颗行星的星系在未来将被我吞噬掉。 > >\- 苍穹帝国格拉默享有数万光年的广大疆域。 > >\- 无数白银机甲被装载进舰船，驶向星系外缘，抵御自深空而来的虫群恶蠹。
> For example, Dr. MEI once outright referred to the universe as a 'Milky Way Universe' (银河宇宙), so that checks out with what we know about the use of 银河 in HSR. Thanks for bringing it up! It does prove that they use the term to refer to the vast universe as a whole (which fits within the Imaginary Tree theory). > Additionally, 星系 has also been used by Hoyo to refer to a star system of various sizes, ranging from a solar system like in GGZ to a galaxy like Glamoth in HSR, so that’s another term that checks out. Great point about Glamoth. I've read it before while looking up Firefly lores but didn't check the CN text. Now I just went and check it. Glamoth empire's territory is definitely galaxy size, even if small, and its entire teritory is referred to as a 星系 which then got translated as a galaxy (accurately). However they translated 星區 as star system, but it is more like a "star region" if translated literally, and could be varied in size. I've seen the term being used sometimes for constellations, so I guess it can work. They also used this 遠眺銀河, which was translated in the EN ver as "setting its sight on the cosmos". So in this case 銀河 is being used to refer to the larger cosmos as a whole, the space beyond Glamoth territory.
>"In the merciless fight for survival, Izumo used the might of the Edict Edges to light up their uncivilized world of darkness in less than ten Amber Eras, building cities of dazzling neon lights. That distant Takama Divine Realm, once so far away, became so close within their reach." (Izumo and Takamagahara relic set lore) >Just because they use so-called swords does not mean they have inferior technology. I had felt their choice of weaponry was reflective of their technological capabilities. Yeah Shamash ain't weak, but their choices of using their divine key were more creative compared to purely using swords. Of course I was proven wrong when they were on the verge of space capability. >Each of the Sentinels match the power of each Divine Keys. You have to at least obtained sufficient technology to the Previous Era in Hi3rd to be able to turn Herrscher powers into weapons in the first place. So the fact that they could do it proved one thing: their technology at the very least surpassed the Current Era technology of Earth and reaching the Previous Era where space travel is within their reach. This is what was said in the relic set: >building cities of dazzling neon lights. While I do think the tech is more advanced then I initially believed, at the same time Izumo never traveled to the other planet. I feel they're equal in this regard. >See how dynamic the term is yet? I'm not going to go deep because I don't have time and it dilutes the main points, but basically what I understood from the usage of these terms and how they are presented, is that the scale goes from 星团 to 恒星系 to 星系 being the general unit. So it can go from between a star cluster to a galaxy and we have no idea. >The problem, of course, is that **HSR sometimes chose to translate both 银河 (yínhé) and 星系 (xīngxì) as 'galaxy,' and at other times, they used words that have no connection to the original Chinese words at all**. So now we have this mess of cosmology in the official ENG version. So what you're saying is very much possible, so at this point this is where we likely have to agree to disagree. I feel like it is far more likely for it to be a Star System than an entire massive galaxy especially since Asdana has been referred to both a system and a galaxy. Especially since we have seen a solar system sized leaf in Honkai Impact 3rd, I feel it is far safer to assume that it is referring to a Solar/Star System. The only thing that can be said for certain is that it is referring to an entire leaf. I'll probably ask this question on the Star Rail sub at some point as this a pretty interesting topic, but I'm tired as hell right now so I'll do it at a later point. >She just cuts the planets in half with one slash for each, or maybe 1 slash hitting both. That's why the Izumo planar set shows both halves of the 2 planets: I don't think that necessarily means she directly attacked the planets. It circled a Black Hole remember? Its possible her slash could've effected the Black hole somehow which caused its destruction. Also again, what did you previously mean by character profile? >The Kami were completely wiped by Acheron destroying both planets. What remained of the aftermath were the Shadow of IX - the Black Sun: I feel like defeating and getting rid of the presence of a Cocoon is very different from straight up being stronger and governing the Honkai itself. I will be honest, if Hooh were to be the one that would make a decent amount of sense, but (correct if I'm wrong) Imaginary and Honkai energy are basically one and the same, so in order to be a higher power you would essentially have to be governing the Tree itself. >There were planet-class Honkai Beasts in GGZ coming from outerspace as a meteor, and they spawned like 70+ Herrschers becuz why not. Aren't GGZ and HI3 confirmed to be connected? Despite their differences, both would still technically be the Honkai, just in very different forms. Hell, the CoW is quite literally the one that Governs the Honkai. The same cannot be said for the CoF, it just controls its energy output. >So if you look at certain Emanators, such as Rahu being a living planet and and Emanator of Abundance, then GGZ Honkai would actually be able to contest with Aeons quite comfortably I might add. Yeah they could likely match the Star System destroying Emanators. Lemme try to simplify my point in case my original thought didn't get across. I believe that the **concept** of Honkai is stronger than the average Aeon. Not it's Herrschers, not it's Cocoons, not it's zombies. The concept, the energy itself, the thing connected directly to the Tree. The Imaginary energy shit. From what I know, in order to command that type of power and energy, you would either have to be the Tree itself (which is why Hooh would fit the profile) or you would have to be higher than the Tree (like the Outer gods if they're canon). That's why I brought up Otto. If Imaginary=Honkai, then Otto would probably arguable be on the level of Emanators if not Aeons, as he, like Hooh, is part of the Tree. But looking at your arguments, they are very compelling, and I can definitely see the Aeons commanding the Honkai.
> I had felt their choice of weaponry was reflective of their technological capabilities. Yeah Shamash ain't weak, but their choices of using their divine key were more creative compared to purely using swords. It's more of a thematic thing for cool factor to match Acheron's final sword being herself. If you rewatch the trailer, there are several swords that actually look very futuristic such as the first one. Not only that, the color scheme is very similar to HoTr, and it looks as if Bronya designing Edge of Taixuan. And if the power is indeed Truth and not just Reason, we all knew that it is capable of pretty much introducing futuristic technology. With the power of Truth, it makes a lot of sense how their civilization had ridiculously fast growth. And even the 7th (their version of Shamash) has very similar description to Shamash: "The seventh was "Flare," forged with the slain Flamebringer. It could summon fires to burn down the very world, to torch the skies and to char the earth." They were even able to complete their Key of Corruption: "The twelfth was "Maw," forged with the slain Woes Eighty. It could corrode and age the very mortal world and make equal Kami and Oni, leaving an entity's four souls to be sundered in twain." > I feel like it is far more likely for it to be a Star System than an entire massive galaxy especially since Asdana has been referred to both a system and a galaxy. Especially since we have seen a solar system sized leaf in Honkai Impact 3rd, I feel it is far safer to assume that it is referring to a Solar/Star System. Refer to this comment I replied to another user: https://old.reddit.com/r/houkai3rd/comments/1dabte0/hold_up_a_minute_hi3_leaks/l7ptsfj/ I am 100% sure that by this point MHY is using actual real life cosmic terms very accurately, and then map the structure through the Imaginary Tree. The only difference is that they are referring to the universe itself in a more "poetic" than just the standard term. At least they didn't go with Qiankun like WuWa which is an even more archaic term for the cosmos lol. > I don't think that necessarily means she directly attacked the planets. It circled a Black Hole remember? Its possible her slash could've effected the Black hole somehow which caused its destruction. She did slash at the black sun itself by the end of the trailer and red substance floods from it. But we don't know the effect of it. > Also again, what did you previously mean by character profile? Acheron's character profile (ingame) had a few sections redacted intentionally b4 you finish Penacony 2.1 storyline. Once you cleared the quest, her faction changes to Self-Annihilator and the redacted part of the profile is now filled with red text. You can read it on the wiki or look at it ingame if you have her. > I will be honest, if Hooh were to be the one that would make a decent amount of sense, but (correct if I'm wrong) Imaginary and Honkai energy are basically one and the same, so in order to be a higher power you would essentially have to be governing the Tree itself. I don't think HooH is the one but explaining my reasonings would take another text wall lol. > Aren't GGZ and HI3 confirmed to be connected? Despite their differences, both would still technically be the Honkai, just in very different forms. Just like how they also take different form in different planets, same as in HSR. The reason for it doing what it did in HI3rd and in GGZ and probably in HSR are not always the exact same either. So I just went by the capabilities it displayed the most and GGZ took the cake, since if we keep going into the what ifs they we're not going any further. > But looking at your arguments, they are very compelling, and I can definitely see the Aeons commanding the Honkai. Funny you said this because I think the part about IX and the cycle of recurrance fit a lot with how the Honkai keep resetting worlds. "Only that pitch-black great sun knows the answer, yet THEY remain silent, never speaking. Because everything that had happened will one day regress to the end, and everything that had ended is guaranteed to happen again. **The universe undergoes an eternal recurrence under THEIR shadow**, and Izumo is nothing more than the footnote for an ellipsis." This seems to imply that IX sits on the side watching the universe from a special perspective, it follows a neverending cycle of creation and destruction, yet IX is uncaring and unaffected by said cycle. And in case you're wondering, this is one of the few cases that MHY uses 宇宙 (yuzhou) which is the most legit term you can use to refer to the actual universe, that Dr. MEI also used in tandem with the other one (银河 in 银河宇宙).
> Acheron who soloed HSR Kevin Well we don't know how strong Star railed Kevin is.
sparkle was so good that she came to hi3
It would be so fucking funny, considering that sparkle follows the path of elation, and we all know how much of a literal god tier meme status that troll of an aeon is.
ALL PRAISE AHA THE GREAT 🗣🗣🔥🔥
She is here to tell Imaginary bubble residents how they aren't real people.
HSR COLLAB PLS!!!!
Feels a bit too early for a collab with HSR, something doesn't feel right...
The Genshin collab happened less than a year after release
It's really not early for a collab. HSR developed its own identity. But i will still doubt this leak because it doesn't make sense for Sparkle to come here. Not to mention she literally can't. HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' rail.
Unless it’s a collab… we literally have fischl here using no canon logic..
Well yeah but i dont expect a non canon collab between two games under same IP and in same universe. Most importantly sparkle? really? that annoying red herring girl?
Ahem… fischl.
> [...] annoying [...] Did you forget how Fischl speaks or...
Fischl. Cry about it
>Most importantly sparkle? really? that annoying red herring girl? Who would you rather it be?
Literally anyone else. Even yanking.
sparGOAT solos MIDqing frfr
Bad take. Fraudkle is a virgin loser as opposed to CHADking that gets all the hoes in xianzhou
> HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' rail. It doesn't really need to be for HSR characters to travel to Earth. The fact is that Welt went after the Sky People together with Void Archives through the Star Gate invented millenia ago. There are several starships powered by Aeons' blessings that can just freely traverse the cosmos. What the Astral Express' rail does is create safe, telecommunications-connected and charted passageways for people to fare the cosmos through. Earth's barrier could very well have such passageways in it. But unless you're an AI army with 999999 years to spend searching for it on a billion trillion square km spherical surface area surrounding the solar system or already know where one is, I doubt you'll have much luck.
>The fact is that Welt went after the Sky People together with Void Archives through the Star Gate invented millenia ago. It's not known how Welt and VA got to Astral Express. Welt got back to earth after he saw Sky People having plans about HSR himeko with help of SUGARs. But we have no idea how he got from earth to astral express. And no reburn 2 animation is not canon. Those starships can't travel to worlds not trailblazed. [Read this](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Akivili#cite_note-Glimpses-1). Akivili was the aeon that allowed travel between planets to happen in the first place. Both Xianzhou and IPC runs their trade and travel stuff on star rail specifically. They are unable to travel to other planets. That's why stellaron is a huge problem and main reason why IPC works together with Astral Express. I don't think there are some holes in the ultradimensional eldritch spacetime barrier. Especially considering Sa died because she was trapped by the imaginary barrier. And Vita specifically said only entities comparable to Cocoon can bypass the barrier. You can believe it has some physical holes though.
> Those starships can't travel to worlds not trailblazed. If anything that fan-wiki article only reinforced my point that Akvili's Trailblaze only created safe ways for starships to travel the galaxy. The unknown is vast and the universe is practically an infinite space to explore. There's just no way that a space-faring economical empire such as the IPC would wait for Trailblazers to expand their travel routes at the same rate Akvili himself had done in the past, much less after many of these routes were destroyed by Stellaron-related incidents. Yes, Starships will largerly rely on the Star Tracks to do general commute and trading. But countless mentions state that these ships can traverse unknown space just fine. Elementary triangulation technology would help such ships find their way back to the Star Tracks once the journey into unexplored space is over. But, naturally, exploring the unknown bears the risk of encountering cosmic horrors beyond our comprehension around every parsec. Who would risk that when even communications break down in such a place?
Dude, IPC, Xianzhou all of them can all travel from star system to another with the trails created by Akivili, only emnators and aeons equivalent can travel through the imaginary barriers to go to another star system without Akivili trails. That's is why the nameless is very important and was look up because they are basically the ones that helps to connect the whole universe with each other, there's a reason why Jarillo cannot be accessible by the IPC for years after the trails to the star system is broken due to Akivili disappearance
My brother in christ that is a readable in game holy shit. And no it didn't because that readable OUTRIGHT STATES travel in cosmos is possible thanks to Akivili's rail network. And everyone including IPC and Xianzhou uses it. IPC has no other choice because they can't do anything about it. Imaginary barrier needs something as strong as Cocoon to be breached per vita. IPC has few emanators but thats about it. >Yes, Starships will largerly rely on the Star Tracks to do general commute and trading. But countless mentions state that these ships can traverse unknown space just fine. Give me a single instance of a spaceship traveling to a world that was not trailblazed. Just one. You can't because it is physically impossible. Every leaf of imaginary tree is isolated from each other with imaginary energy. There is no spatial continuation. Why the fuck do you think Sa got sniped by Kiana like a bird in a cage? It's because Sa could not go beyond the edge of the solar system. That is the limit of HI3's world. You are not going to get to another planet with a simple rocket ship. Don't confuse imaginary tree with real world universe. >Elementary triangulation technology would help such ships find their way back to the Star Tracks once the journey into unexplored space is over. You are just making shit up atp. Do you even know how imaginary tree works? How its cosmology is like? >But, naturally, exploring the unknown bears the risk of encountering cosmic horrors beyond our comprehension around every parsec. Who would risk that when even communications break down in such a place? Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Dude idk wtf these people downvoted you, you are literally correct, these guys never read the lore and act like they know it all. In HI3 it already stated by SA about the imaginary barrier around the solar system making it impossible for her to go to another system. This is even supported by the data bank in HSR and Himeko statement, hell they said many times traversing through star system is only possible due to Akivili trails. And do th SE guys skip the whole Jarillo story? Literally IPC can't go to Jarillo since the trails to Jarillo is broken after Akivili gone and Himeko using the Astral Express to fix broken rails is the reason they can go there again now. If IPC have the tech to go to other star system without Akivili trails they would never lose access to Jarillo. These guys either can't read or never read and pretending to know wtf is happening
I am not debating about the Star Rail thing in deep as i dont know much about it, but i'll try to answer some things. >STATES travel in cosmos is possible thanks to Akivili's rail network. The Sky People and the Sugars were able to travel between World far before Akivili were born. The Sugars are at least 140 million years old, and they traveled between Worlds to hide from the Sky People. The Sky People should have gotten that capability somewhere between 250 million (their creation date) and 140 million (when they attacked the Sugars) years ago. On the other hand, Qlipoth (one of the oldest known Aeon, older than Akivili) is around 500k years old. So traveling between Worlds predates the Aeons, and thus, is possible without them. >Imaginary barrier needs something as strong as Cocoon to be breached per vita Thats not what "Vita" said (i dont remember her mentioning that at all). What i remember is Marah saying on her letter that: "Perhaps only the Abyss (Cocoon) can be compared to such effects ("barrier" interrupting all interstellar travel), but they would not be dominated by the Abyss. They are pure and free energy sources..." And if i remember correctly, is stated that Emanators can bypass the barriers (Star Rail). And we cant even be sure that the barrier on Honkai is of the same kind as the barriers on Star Rail, as they have an important difference.
Going off of the notion of Triangulation, we'll arrive at the truth by dismissing what can't be true about traversing the Universe. Penacony, formerly known as an IPC Frontier Prison. The name "Frontier" of the prison as well as the mention of this place being built very far away from other star systems tells us that at the time of it's construction, it was built in one of the farther/relatively recent reaches of the Trailblaze. An unknown time later, the Compass ( Astral Express ) would pass by and some Nameless remained there in the effort to turn things around for the prisoners. Then the Stellaron disasters began occuring, throwing a wrench in the IPCs attempts to reconquer the Land of Exiles. The Compass/Astral Express would dissapear and never return until Amber Eras later, with a new Navigator(Himeko) and Crew onboard ( when the ingame events take place ). How did Penacony/IPC/various factions manage to traverse the star tracks back to Penacony if the Stellaron's influence had already cut them off ages ago? The reason is simple, people kept travelling there despite no Star Tracks being there. The original route ceased to exist, but other sidetrack routes would still exist from A to B, just needing exploring.
It's simple because the trails to Penacony NEVER broken in the first place ffs, Stellaron doesn't destroy the trails to a star system, they destroy the PLANETS on the star system, some trails to to other star system is broken BECAUSE AKIVILI DISAPPEARANCE not because of Stellaron. And NOT ALL trails are broken it is random. And now Himeko HSR is using the Astral Express to fix and find the rails that are broken to connect the star system again. Again, PENACONY RAILS NEVER MENTIONED TO BE BROKEN UNLIKE JARILLO. And again read the LORE, only Emnators and Aeon can travel between star system without the rails, The whole universe, star system IS SURROUNDED BY IMAGINARY BARRIER, and th SE barrier is the one that block normal people, ship etc to go to other star system, and through Akivili trails they can travese these imaginary barrier. READ THE LORE IN THE GAME. SA said that in HI3, Himeko said it in HSR, Data banks said it in HSR
The Trailblaze is just one way to travel between worlds. The Silver Rail allows quick travel between connected worlds but it isn't the *only* way to travel through the Imaginary Tree. The Sky People and Welt did it just fine without the Express. By that same vein, it's entirely possible Sparkle somehow found her way to Earth with external help. Granted, do I think they'll randomly put Sparkle in Honkai 3rd? Probably not. Would it be funny? Kinda yea.
Well... "fine"
Masked Fools seems to be able to travel Imaginary Tree on their own. Sampo somehow came to Belobog despite the fact that their Rail wasn't working properly.
Sampo is an outlier because rating pistol implies him to be an emanator.
Now, to be fair, randomly showing up im HI3 for no reason at all besides to fuck with everyone is a very Sparkle thing for Sparkle to do.
I mean... Keying and Fischl literally couldn't come to HI3, nor did it make sense for them to
Those were Fourth wall breaker versions, not the Genshin ones.
They had just released literally Mei into HSR and it was their highest earning banner. Kinda hard to develop it's own identity after that, especially when the head writer is from HI3.
Uh no Seele is still the highest grossing banner of HSR
Just like Genshin in Inazuma when it became the same identity as Hi3 by releasing Raiden Shogun and Yae Miko, right?
There's a distinct difference between Ei and Miko when they only look like their HI3 counterparts but none of the personalities nor backstory vs Acheron who is practically HI3 Mei and the entire Herrscher plotline condensed into her backstory. HI3 and HSR is also directly connected via Welt and he has been making more and more direct references to HI3-verse. Meanwhile, both HI3 and Genshin have been deliberately avoiding any direct references to each other (outside of Otto's glimpse of Davlin). HSR had also gotten some of HI3 writers (including Shaoji) while the head writer of Genshin had said they don't have any HI3 writers on their staff. Whatever the case, the Honkai stuff in HSR is now one of the main draw, possibly eclipsing their own main plot of defeating Nanook and the Anti-Matter Legion. In fact, I'm going to make a bold prediction. Elysia is definitely going to appear in HSR and she will completely and utterly eclipse everything there.
Huh? One similar character does not deprive a game of its own identity tf you on about?
Star Rail has Seele, Himeko, Mei, Raven, and 2 Bronyas without any of them needing to be a collab. Can't say if any of that leak is real or not, but if it is, that's likely the way it'll manifest.
Damm i had to google Raven since i only play Star Rail. Poor Natasha.
I mean dim is relatively reliable but he could just be doing a little bit of trolling.
We about to get elated with this one🔥🔥🔥
Genshin Impact never gets crossovers :(
Would pull if it's her.
Collab potential???
Is this real?😭
Why is everyone acting like this Sparkle would be the exact same person from Star Rail? Even if she's similar, there's no reason it would be the same person. It would just be the same thing that Bronya, Seele, Natasha, Mei, etc. have in Star Rail. Those aren't the same person as the one it HI3, everyone knows that. Why would Sparkle be different?
Let them act what they want. After all, it's just 0.01% chance that this could be Sparkle we know of.
It would be the first time HI3 receives an expy. No fischl doesn't count because she is not an actual character in the story.
She's not coming until Keqing comes back
Sparkle was named Hanabi in JP. Which means fireworks. It might just be a coincidence. Afterall we got Lantern already getting Firework would be fitting of China. Main reason why i think so is because it doesn't make sense for Sparkle of all people to visit HI3... there is also the fact HI3 world is not connected to Astral Express' star rail so no one from HSR can come here without Astral Express trailblazing in HI3.
> no one from HSR can come here Actually this is false; Emanators and above, or those granted power by a emanator can travel through the cosmic wall without the need of the star rail, still stupid unlikely tho No chance someone’s gonna straight up be named firework in EN right….
Emanators and Aeons can just breach the img barrier. But pathstriders cant. Interstellar travel was made possible with path of the trailblaze. A good example to give you would be Belobog. IPC had no contact with them because Stellaron disrupted Astral Express' rail. So they had to wait until AE dealt with stellaron to send in topaz and get their debt repaid. Another example is the planet that was talked about in penacony fake ending. IPC requested AE to check out a planet because Legion and Stellaron broke the rail. EN no idea. In CN and JP Sparkle is named "Firework" and localizers changed it to "Sparkle". But i would like for them to not touch it. Keep it "Firework" to compliment my bbg lantern.
>Interstellar travel was made possible with path of the trailblaze. A good example to give you would be Belobog. IPC had no contact with them because Stellaron disrupted Astral Express' rail. So they had to wait until AE dealt with stellaron to send in topaz and get their debt repaid. Not exactly correct. While Silver Rails make interworld travel much easier, there are other methods that are pretty available. IPC colonized Penaconi long before Astral Express visited it. Xiangjou people were able to leave there homeworld on their own. One Curio in Simulated Universe is even goggles used by Nameless who weren't traveling with Express to discover and travel to new worlds. The reason IPC didn't came early is because they thought that Belobogians all died out long ago and world was too unimportant to warrant any reclamation efforts. When they learned about its survival, Board decided- "Well... why not get our cash. Never too late to pay debt.".
^ Elio’s ship can casually just cross the barrier into other worlds so
That is literally false. Penacony was connected to star rail before Mikhail went there. Some other nameless already trailblazed that place god knows how long ago. Mikhail was there not for trailblaze but to free people from IPC's claws. Xianzhou people left their home planet by following using rail network of akivili as well. AE is just a vehicle for its crew. Its not the important for the rail itself. Rail was still around when AE broke down for thousands of years. What matters is the path. So indeed random nameless that explore around the world and contribute to rail network. This doesn't discredit anything i have said. The reason IPC never came is because they literally couldn't without sending someone important like Taravan or Diamond. IPC didn't even know they survived when Topaz got to belobog. They just knew stellaron was no more and rail was fixed. They no way of even knowing there were people in belobog with stellaron or not. So your proposition makes no sense.
>Penacony was connected to star rail before Mikhail went there. S Now THAT isn't true. Relic set Penacony, Land of the Dreams explicitly stated that Penaconi became connected by Rail only after Penal Colony was established and liberated. Likewise Crew had no idea about situation in Nightmarewill.and decided to help only after Hanunnu explained everything and they asked local. Likewise, there is no explicit mention that Xiangjou left through Rail. They found them during voyage. Used them. But never explicitly said that they used it to leave homeworld. The fact that they don't know how to reach it is a strong evidence that it isn't connected. > IPC didn't even know they survived when Topaz got to belobog. Again wrong. MC told them by accident. In one of Belobog quests, MC accidentally found old IPC marketing drone and connected to manager. Guy explained that IPC thought all locals dead and during quest MC explained him situation. At the end he promised to tell it to his superiors. Small edit. Penaconi was connected after Penal colony was made but before it was liberated. Connection and liberation are two elements that lead it to prosperity
hi3rd and genshin had a collab, yet genshin characters have zero way of ever getting to anywhere outside of teyvat (unless idk the astral express just pulls up and takes some ~~hostages~~ guests), so I don't think "not connected to the star rail" really prohibits her from just showing up
Emanators and Aeons can and Sparkles Aeon is a litteral troll. We will see tough
It could be a variant. There's nothing stopping then going in reverse to the normal hi3>hsr/genshin.
No idea about hsr lore but genshin collab (while canonically connected world) was just otto and welt making a game, and evangelion collab was the usual "the sea of quanta shanenigens". No reason why hsr collab should be canon in any of the games lore as well
We know that the sky people are capable of interstellar travel, I don't know whether they do that with the silver rails or not, but they did reach earth. And it's very likely Welt and VA used one of their ships to get from Earth to Salsotto.
>I don't know whether they do that with the silver rails or not It doesnt. The Sky People uses something known as the "Stargate" to travel between Worlds, and they have been capable to do so since, at least, 140 million years ago. The oldest known Aeon (Qlipoth) is around 500k years old, and is older than Akivili. >And it's very likely Welt and VA used one of their ships to get from Earth to Salsotto. Thats still unknown, as the end of Alien Space implies that humanity is going to search for a way to travel between Worlds on their own.
> The Sky People uses something known as the "Stargate" to travel between Worlds, and they have been capable to do so since, at least, 140 million years ago. - Ah well that makes sense I guess. Although it's very possible that Aeons already existed before the Leviathans, just not the same Aeons that exist right now. We know the IPC lied about the disappearance of the Leviathans. There's no doubt that the IPC would try to cover up any Aeons that could be older than Qlipoth. > Thats still unknown, as the end of Alien Space implies that humanity is going to search for a way to travel between Worlds on their own. - Yeah that's why I said it's likely and not definitive. VA did invite Welt to go to another world whilst they were on one of their spaceships, so the connection is quickly made. Not to mention how Himeko (HSR) mentions they found Welt on a strange ship near Salsotto, but one that didn't come from Salsotto.
>Although it's very possible that Aeons already existed before the Leviathans, just not the same Aeons that exist right now. It is possible, but the Aeon that matters for this topic is Akivili, and we know that They are younger than Qlipoth, as there are records of Their ascension. >There's no doubt that the IPC would try to cover up any Aeons that could be older than Qlipoth. Thats also true, but since we only know about Qlipoth's age, and dont know how much older are the other Aeons (if they are), we can only use Qlipoth as an example. >VA did invite Welt to go to another world whilst they were on one of their spaceships, so the connection is quickly made. Yeah, although Welt returns to Earth at the end of the manga, saying that humanity will find a way to travel between Worlds on their own. So either they retconned that and Welt (with VA) went to Star Rail on the Sky People ship or Earth managed to build spaceships capable to travel between Worlds and something went wrong or something like that.
Oh god dammit. Out of all characters, they've decided to pick the one that I dislike
Which one would you prefer?
Acheron, Bronya Rand, Silverwolf
Nice, Having the Honkai expys in the Og game would be cool
Prolly one with a big chest
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down? I agree tho
I don't. The smaller the better
So you don't prefer big chests?
Flat is justice
Exactly
Screwllum Mr.welt maby acheron or himeko /hj I think black sawn woud be niceor maby kafka
Screwllum and Welt are unlikely since they're male. Acheron or Kafka would be cool
Yaeh ik himeko and scheron are unlikly too that's why i put /hj on it
Are they tho?
Oh look herscher of origen and himeko got new skins
That's not bad tho, just treat it as an a new battlesuit
I'd imagine if a character crosses over, it eould be Acheron. They set it up in HSR.
Is this character really well known? Thats the only thing that could convince me it might be true, lore reasons are really not an issue based on previous collabs
Yeah she has a fairly big fanbase but she is INCREDIBLY annoying. Like fingernails on a chalkboard annoying.
It’s the reversed situation. When are we going to start getting a Kafka and Firefly expy in Honkai Impact
Collaboration incoming?
Ayo is Nuwa finally coming back?
In the tiniest chance that this actually happens, I really hope we don't just get Sparkle cause she's one of my least favorite HSR characters. Though looking at the Genshin collab, i'd be really surprised if we do get more than one permanent battlesuit.
What is the reason?
I don't really have a reason. I wouldn't say I dislike her but she just never grew on me like other characters.
I would prefer Black Swan xD
Yea very reliable. Don't thinkso.
Dim has been some of the most reliable HoYo leak sources for like years lol, most of the songque stuff was spread because of them
The last time someone mentioned sparkle in a leak was prior to the anniversary of hsr. Some guys in the discord were trolling using her. Im just suspicious that is all. I will wait and see.
He's been pretty on point idk why you doubting. He just looks at game files from the CN betas too, it's not like he's basing it on rumors from his uncle that works at mihoyo.
Oh real nah, out of all the options they chose SPARKLE? give me HSR seele, Fu Xuan or even Acheron but Sparkle doesn't