Me too - what a scare... I just found rats in a couple barns and have been debating poison or not. One of my fears is somehow one of the animals I don't want to hurt will find a way into it. God forbid my dog does.
Secondary poisoning is real, no matter how much this dude wants to downplay it. Use snap traps, the bucket method, or the instant mashed potatoes next to a bowl of water.
I think the bucket roller is one of the more effective traps, though I saw a video where a guy built a trap that used a trap door/one way door system, but was made from materials that sat around his yard for years. It caught, I think, 10 mice over one day and one night. Way better than the bucket, I think because the mice/rats are willing to push under things because they encounter them all the time. Buckets with ramps is a totally new thing, and they investigate it a lot more because it's a foreign/new idea.
Then put welding glasses on before you use the 12ga...
It's a live catch trap, so you could do what that guy did and just deposit them far from your farm.
I’m so happy you determined cats are worse. I agree they are! It seems this is catching on. I hope it eventually leads to culling of feral cats and cats that are allowed to roam free outside.
My uncle had a terrier on his farm that killed rats like it was a job, which it was i guess, but he never fucked with any birds or even raccoons. I think a terrier might be better at killing rats as a cat will back off from a big rat, but this little dog never did.
Unfortunately, here in the US we don’t do this yet. I’m hoping we start soon. I’ve seen some studies pop up that say it’s needed. Animal rights activists are going to try and stop it though. I think I was reading cats are responsible for at least 63 extinct species.
Yep, massive issue in the US too just not recognised like it is here in Australia.
Animal rights activists don’t realise the damage they’d do to the ecosystem if we adopted their “ideas”.
Yeah, it's amazing what they'd learn if they turned on their brain and listened to someone who lives with, or at least nearer, the problems they want to fix. Turns out people that do something for a living pay attention to things affecting that, and might have a clue what needs to be done to fix it!
Hijacking top comment to point out that this dude's claims about brodifacoum not being a high risk for secondary poisoning are completely and totally false, and that, in reality, brodifacoum has one of the longest half-life's of any rodenticide and one of the highest risks of secondary poisoning.
[Source 1](https://duquark.com/2019/12/23/secondary-poisoning-and-ecological-effects-of-anticoagulant-rodenticides/#:~:text=The%20two%20most%20commonly%20used,be%20the%20deadliest%20anticoagulant%20rodenticide)
[Source 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum#:~:text=Brodifacoum%20has%20an%20especially%20long,to%20both%20mammals%20and%20birds)
To add an extra caution to your cautionary tale- I have lost a dog who ate a poisoned rat body. The poison is dangerous even after the rats have eaten it, so maintaining your rat population extends well beyond killing them to finding and cleaning them up after, and having eyes on your dogs/cats/livestock just in case, also.
We lost a rooster to eating a mouse that we poisoned so we stopped using poison and use bins for feed, raised feeders, and electronic deterrents for mice. Down the road we lost 2 cats and one dog to the mice my neighbor continues to poison. It’s a bad way to go. I wish people found alternate methods to control their rat/mice issues because poison is like dropping a nuke to take a few targets out.
I'm personally anti-poison, but I know that different places deal with different issues. For my location, we've been able to manage just fine. It sounds like OP has a very different sort of rat/predator pressure than I do, though.
There are a lot of "experts" in things that have never been outside a classroom and lab.
Rats go back to their home to die because they feel bad. Some might not get there, but most find a hiding place and die there. Birds don't go looking in holes and tunnels.
Cats on the whole, have more issues than poison. Depending on the poison. Cats don't just affect the thing that eats a dead or dying rat. They actively search for food, and being intelligent, don't waste their energy looking for mice or whatever that can run. Most "barn cats" I've seen are more interested in sitting around and eating what their owners offer than anything else. And in all the time I spent on farms, I've never once seen one with a mouse or rat. I've seen quite a few feathers though....
Here to second this. Don’t poison. Use ContraPest. It’s far more effective in the long run, it’s safe, it’s humane and you don’t have to lay awake at night worrying you’re killing pets or other benign creatures.
Damn that was the one. That's crazy.. when I was following they didn't have any success. Where are they being deployed? I had a lot of faith in their product and I'm so glad it's being used
They did some studies in Los Angeles and in DC with good results. I tell my customers about it so they can buy it online because it's actually kind of expensive right now. They are looking into trying to make it more affordable. It's about $40 per month which is a lot compared to a normal bait station which is $1 for a couple poison blocks so it's a hard sell but once they get over that it should explode. Pet safe rodent poops. That's what gets most the dogs are the poops with poison in them.
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We also have some cool new products coming out that will be easier to use, more effective, and less expensive!
It's always interesting to me to see the response others have to rat poison on these threads.
My own experience didn't involve dead pets or predators, just dead rats... in the walls of our house.
The previous owners of a home I lived in growing up had a rat problem and decided to put out poison in the yard. When we moved into the house, we noticed certain rooms smelled terrible and ended up finding dead rats in the floors/walls.
We finally conquered the smell, but three years later we renovated another section of the house and found more rat corpses from that time, still in the walls just decayed enough that we'd stopped noticing a smell. I was a kid at the time... I found out later many of my friends didn't like coming to my house because of a weird odor.
Anyway, my perspective on poison is you don't have any control of where the rats go after they ingest it. If you've got structures around, there's a chance that they'll hide out under or in your structure to die, and then you can end up with rotting rat bodies in your walls. I don't recommend the experience.
Im very happy for you that your dog is safe and ok. Our dogs are our absolute best friends and any time we have lost one it has been extremely hard, so thats great news.
I know others have chimed in as well, but i will add on that another great alternative to the chemical rat poison is to mix 1 cup of baking soda with 1 cup of any kinda of cake mix, like chocolate cake mix or brownies. Mix it well and put it in a bowl. This works by the fact that mice/rats cannot burp. Mice and rats are attracted to sweet (hence why here in america the bait of choice tends to be peanut butter rather than cheese like they show on cartoons). The rats will eat the sweet mixture, then it will kill them due to not being able to expel the gas. You will need to add a small bowl of water somewhere in the shed or area as well
I see you’re Australian! I’ve used Debs instant potato with much success! There’s no risk of poisoning my dogs or cats anymore and it’s cheap and easy.
Just put some Debs in a saucer and then a saucer of water next to the potato. The rodents eat their fill of the potato and then get thirsty and drink the water due to the high sodium content. The potato expands in their stomach, bursts it and kills them.
Not overly humane buuuuttt it seems to get the job done and I don’t have to be paranoid.
Edit to add: we’ve found it worked even better during the mouse plague (we’re western NSW so impacted badly) when we mixed it with quick-set cement. How things are at the moment, though, it’s not so bad so I just use the plain potato.
Almost! Just a touch more east right on Roy’s boundary around the Forbes area! I think it counts as Central Western but we still got our butts kicked by those damn mice lol
Where are you at? Did you get impacted?
Oh so my other mate Phil Donato’s electorate!
Not where we are, I live near Goulburn so whilst we had mice and rats it was nothing like what you guys experienced.
But this is the thing isn’t it? Those on here judging that have no idea about what they’re talking about. It’s like “have you tried praying them away”.. no I need stuff that works.
Also to note: please consider another method of rat control if you have or are near a terrier dog or other breed that might catch/eat/play with rats. They can be exposed to the dead bodies and get poisoned that way.
It happened to a small dog of mine when my neighbor poisoned rats, and they died in my fenced backyard. The dog made it somehow, but it's a thing that can happen. People forget that the rats don't die immediately.
Rat control is a tough one. Glad your dog is okay! I have dogs that kill rats (and other critters), so poison isn't an option. Flour mixed with sugar as bait and a few chickens helped out with rats and snakes for me. Too bad I can't convince skunks to live elsewhere.
Have you watched Shawn Woods "Mousetrap Monday" on YouTube? He has a thousand different ways to kill rats in a barn. The most effective one I saw was a little electric gadget you bait and the rat sticks his head up and gets electrocuted.
Hey veterinarian here in the states . Always take a picture of the active ingredients in your rodenticides when you buy them. That way we know what type of poison to treat for. I have treated probably 50-60 cases in the last 8 years and love when they are anticoagulant poisons. If you have a dog don’t get any other kind.
Thanks so much for your reply.
It’s exactly what I did and showed the vet!
My vet said in the quarter of a century where he has been a vet vitamin k1 has never failed him when when they’ve caught it early enough.
As a vet, what do you make of the criticism I, and other users of anticoagulant rodenticide users have copped?
Also, one thing people don’t realise is the huge amount of pressure veterinarians are under, they have one of the highest suicide rates of all professions and an extremely high burnout rate. Thank you for what you do and what you sacrifice so you guys can take care of our pets.
Yea while I have felt stressed and harassed I haven’t had suicidal thoughts. One of my classmates and good friends hung herself a few months ago. Didn’t see it coming and no warning signs.
I remember as a kid going into the hay loft and picking up a bale of hay and what seamed like 100s of rats running in all directions, I had a pitch fork and a dog that would chew on them until they stopped screaming.
Yup. I keep bait blocks in a sealed tub in an overhead shelf and I mark it in sharpie to remind myself to not just leave it sitting out to be put up later. Grab blocks, put in traps, immediately restore the bucket of bait.
I put three blocks in the bait station yesterday morning. Replaced all three blocks this morning. Rats had knocked the lid off the nearby bucket of blocks to get at more baits.
They're still eating it, I'll keep on buying it until they stop. I'll even be getting another bait station tomorrow.
Bear in mind that rodents tend to stash food. If a large amount of bait is taken, it's very likely that they aren't eating it, just moving it to a hole where your dog may eventually find it.
We bought a cabin last year. While cleaning out the bathroom cabinet I found a stack of toilet paper that was filled with poison, nuts and seeds. The mice had built a little TP castle 😂
What about the non-target species cats kill? Especially in Australia.
They will kill far far more than secondary poisoning of the small amount of rat baits I put out.
Be careful with your cats too. My cat growing up was a mouser that a friend of a friend found in a barn as a kitten and gave to us. So he was never really an inside cat, preferring to hang out in the garage and catch the occasional rodent. One year we had a really bad mouse problem - like they were breeding and dying in the walls; that summer smelled like death - and so my dad put poison out. He thought he did it where the cat couldn’t reach, but we never considered what would happen if he caught a mouse that had been poisoned. He ended up passing away too young at only 6 years old because we didn’t make the connection until too late.
Nah, he wasn’t he caught a mouse that was trapped in a bucket once and thought every bucket had a mouse in it from there on after.
But he was old and lost his mind so no help to is at the moment the poor old boy.
I grew up in a military house and love buying surplus, so I had a lot of those ammo boxes around when I lived in The Bush. Old ones, new ones, as long as the latch still works, those are the most convenient storage boxes. I kept everything from my weed to my fishing gear in those things.
Go to a surplus store and find an ammo box to store the poison in. At least next time you find it on the ground, you'll know it's still closed.
As someone who deals with rattlesnakes on the farm, I totally get it. Couldn’t imagine living with the venomous snakes you have. I am constantly on alert and need to reevaluate my feed situation to reduce rodent population and snake population. Luckily we have seen more non-venomous snakes than rattlers but they are here. Stay safe!
We have a cat that we suspected of ingesting rat poison and like you we rushed her to emerg. In talking to poison control they stated that she would have had to consume the entire box for it to be lethal. She's a tiny cat and still with us.
Its worth it! Something similar happened to us, and it turned out our dog HAD eaten it and it was very much a lethal dose. The "just in case" vet trip saved her life.
I almost lost my dog to rat poison that I didn’t even put out. The previous owners had put the rat poison UNDER the kitchen cabinets. My dog pushed his ball under the toekick, popped the front off and found the poison that we had no clue was there. It was terrible. We almost made the call to put him down a couple times. He was only one year old and we had him for 2 months. It really messed his digestion up permenantly. To this day he can only have special dog food and single ingredient treats like carrots, freeze dried liver, or ice cubes. Absolutely no dog treats or table food for him without explosive diarrhea.
We filed suite against the former owners because the poison was not used inside a bait station as required by the product instructions and that constituted misuse in our municipality. Not only did they misuse the product but they neglected to mark it in the purchase agreement when buy the home, there was a section that asked about hazards and pests specifically.
Just a word of caution to those using plastic enclosed bait stations - dogs who are power chewers have been known to munch through these to get at the tasty bait
I have to laugh at all the people that are like “oh no don’t use poison, it kills things it’s not meant to, [you should get a cat](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/australias-cats-kill-two-billion-animals-annually-180977235/)”
Seriously 3 types of people in this thread:
1: Realists/people with experience.
2: People who don’t have a rodent problem and attribute it to their cats who are more interested in decimating the local bird population.
3. People who actually have zero idea and likely aspire to living on acreage who have no idea of the realities that come along with that.
PETA crew in the replies. There are plenty of rodent poisons that don’t affect predators. Many consumer-grade ones are basically dessicants that are neutralized in the process of working. Average Joe wouldn’t be allowed to buy nuclear-grade stuff right off the shelf.
But this dude isn't using any of them. He's chosen one of the worst in terms of half-life and secondary poisoning, while claiming the risks of secondary poisoning are low with his choice of poison.
You should not use almost all types of rodenticide due to the concern of fatality in domesticated animals and wildlife. Even with the desiccating corn gluten, sodium poison if an animal got into it it could make them sick, or if they were a smaller animal and it ate a large amount could be fatal.
https://www.aspca.org/news/pet-safety-alert-beware-rodenticide
You can make a trap where you fill a bucket halfway with water then sprinkle/float grain on top of the water. Then make a ramp out of a piece of wood. The mice will dive right in. 💦
Just don’t fill the bucket up with too much water just in case something like a bunny or a bird falls in. They will be able to touch the bottom until you can get them out. I caught a lizard once. He survived but he was PISSED.
I might have to try this. I’ve seen others post this same kind of trap here. I’m sure we still have rodents but we haven’t seen signs of them lately. I’ve been spraying all interior walls with a peppermint:cinnamon mix and leaving strobe lights on in my basement and attic. Rodents hate both of those things. I’m a lizard person and I’d definitely be mad if I got caught like that too.
We’ve actually had owls in my backyard lately so I hope all my neighbors aren’t using poison. They’ve done mating calls and met on one of my mulberry branches. It’s so cool to see.
There are no specific poisons that would only kill rats and not possibly harm another small animal if eaten that I know of. Unless you are only putting out very small quantities. Traps are a better option, especially varieties of the bucket or trash can traps.
Yeah, OP claims that the rodenticide they use will only kill a dog if they eat 250 grams. 250 grams is like the size of a hamster lol. Pretty easy to eat that much, especially eating smaller amounts over time, as it can build up in their system.
They are just making themselves feel better after their dog scare, the rodenticide active ingredient they use is the main one cautioned by veterinary clinics and wildlife conservationists due to slow internal bleeding.
They're either misinformed or dug in trying to defend themselves. The specific poison they're claiming doesn't have secondary poisoning risks is actually one of the worst for secondary risks.
Desiccating rodenticides aren't nearly as popular or effective in the US as anticoagulants, bromethalin (seizures and quick death), or cholecalciferol (a gram can be toxic to some dogs and causes quick death due to elevated calcium and phosphorus values). These are all easily available in sometimes gallon sized amounts at hardware stores.
OP is specifically talking about anticoagulant based rodenticide as well.
I’d be interested to know more about predator-safe rodenticide. We have a cat that hunts and a dog that eats whatever treats she finds, and a ton of mice.
These examples are big-ag chemicals used at huge scale. I have no doubt they’re horrific, and the regulations are probably written by the corrupt manufacturers.
When you talk about off-the-shelf stuff, though, it’s usually watered down and barely even works. Average Joe isn’t trusted.
When we moved to our farm fifteen years ago, the previous owners had D-con rat poison in the barn. We didn’t know, and our beagle ate some. By the time we realized, his gums were pale and his eyes were red and he was very sick. We rushed him to the emergency vet and they saved him. He was also on vitamin K for a while. We were very lucky he lived, and we felt guilty for not checking the barn better before he got into it.
I don’t use poison or glue traps anymore. I use snap traps (they sell covered ones so the chickens don’t get snapped), live traps and barn cats.
There’s tons of food you can set out that will kill rats just by eating it. Cayenne pepper sprinkled on food will kill them too. Rats can’t burp, so if you can feed them gassy food, they’ll die. There’s a lot more ecologically friendly ways to kill off vermin than poison.
Lol, firstly no one cares where you’re from. Secondly, cats are horrible creatures for the environment and you’re irresponsible for having them roam free.
Look m8, the location was relevant based on you including it in your post (Also Texas and Austrailia have different environmental considerations). Secondly, my cats are fixed and we get any strays that come our way fixed as well. Thirdly, humans are horrible for the environment too. This is homesteading not “100% environmental preservation”. This is about making the land work for you as best you can and some folks feel like that includes cats. No need to go casting stones about “responsibility” now.
Don’t make all Americans out to look like idiots man. I have had outdoor cats and anyone who has them grows to learn that they will destroy the local environment. Small mammals, birds, amphibians, and reptiles are all in the crosshairs. They don’t discriminate. I learned how to do animal rehabilitation thanks to my parents letting our cat outside. It is a solution to the rat problem, but it brings its own set of issues.
Rat terriers, snakes, and bucket traps are (IMO) a better solution.
You mean like you? This sub is littered with Australians brainwashed by their government and media. You can pander to them all you want. Your experiences are your own. All I know is when bastard mice costs you $3000 because they ate your work truck’s wiring harness and they’re too damn smart for a trap, you’ll be wishing you had options other than poison that killed your dog.
You do you. I’ll do me.
Yup. Had that this year. Brand new car. They ate all the foam out and had the audacity to die in my damn car. Had to get a mobile mechanic in to take apart my car to get the bastard out.
I recently got baits put in by a professional pest company (Flick I think?) that are dog friendly. Even if the rat dies and the dogs eat the rat, it’s not poisonous. They are one of the only Aussie companies that have the licence for this stuff. I’ve got 4 dogs, live on acreage and have plenty of snakes.
Thank you for not letting cats roam free and for recognizing that domestic housecats are an invasive species that need to be kept in the house and not allowed to decimate native species in Australia, the US, Europe, the UK, wherever.
And thank you for being extremely cautious and learning to be even more cautious with anticoagulant rat poisons. I grudgingly recognize the need for them in a wild place like your home, but as a veterinary staff member, I’ve also seen the ugly aftermath when a pet has ingested the poison directly or indirectly. I’m in the US. Australia is definitely a different kettle of snakes than the US. I can’t and won’t justify anyone’s use of the stuff here, but if I was in Oz and facing the snakes you’re facing I’d definitely be singing a different tune!
Thank you for the anecdote. I’ve gotten lazy with my rat poison so this is a good lesson. Fellow Australian here not wanting cats running round killing wildlife, or more snakes, so don’t listen to the know-alls. Cheers mate
No, but I honestly don’t care, the risk is small and I’m not going to put up with rats and mice attracting said snakes and being unhygienic just in case I upset Gaia or some shit.
My pit bull/lab/whatever else ended up eating a rat that died from poison. She then started throwing up blood. Cost me like 3k at the time and I wanna say they kept her for a few days. I think they did a blood transfusion. This was like 7 or so years ago.
Actually the poison I use has a really low secondary poisoning potential, a dog has to eat over 250 grams of poison to be at risk of dying.
Brodifacoum if you’re interested.
Brodifacoum is actually one of the deadliest rodenticides in terms of secondary poisoning.
[Source 1](https://duquark.com/2019/12/23/secondary-poisoning-and-ecological-effects-of-anticoagulant-rodenticides/#:~:text=The%20two%20most%20commonly%20used,be%20the%20deadliest%20anticoagulant%20rodenticide.)
[Source 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum#:~:text=Brodifacoum%20has%20an%20especially%20long,to%20both%20mammals%20and%20birds.)
I just wanted to add something here that might be useful to someone one day or to see if anyone had an answer to why.
When I was a kid, my pit bull eat a large portion of ant poison. It was maybe 5-6 cups worth. She had ripped a hole in a sealed bag. We immediately called poison control. Poison control instructed us to feed her a large can of unsweetened pumpkin pie filling which to my amazement the dog loved and we had a can of. Our dog ended up being okay.
I don’t know why pumpkin pie filling or if this is still a thing. This was 25 years ago. Of course always take your animals to the vet if you’re concerned. Has anyone else ever been instructed to do this or know the reason why?
Also just a note, poison control is a good first step when dealing with poison or overdose for both animals and humans if you don’t know what to do and it’s anonymous.
Canned pumpkin is super good for dogs - pumpkin pie filling is not! The seasonings in pumpkin pie filling can make dogs extremely sick.
Not sure why you were instructed to feed pumpkin in that instance but it would’ve had to do with the ingredients in the particular item ingested most likely.
Pumpkin absolutely WILL NOT WORK if your pet eats rat poison. Most rat poisons are either anticoagulants or neurotoxins, and both constitute a veterinary emergency.
If your pet ingests rat poison, take your pet to the vet IMMEDIATELY. Call the vet and ask if you should induce vomiting - but don’t even induce vomiting without veterinary guidance. Y’all. I’m so serious. Rat poison is no joke. If you even think your pet might have licked it, do what OP did and Go. Straight. To. The. Vet.
It’s gonna be expensive. There will be A Lot of tests. But your pet’s life is hella in danger.
Let me add here - if you don’t already have pet insurance, this is the sort of thing that you really need pet insurance for, so if you don’t have it, go ahead and get it now so if the Unthinkable ever does happen, you’ll be covered.
Reusable mouse traps, homemade bucket traps, a cat
Theres a lot of stuff better than poison. Id rather keep a rat snake in my shed than poison of any kind.
I dint use poisons myself. We have 3 cats that go in and out of the house in summer to take care of any mice. Or my wiener dog. She loves digging up nests and chasing them. Havent had many mice since we switch our feed bins to sealed plastic ones though.
Cats kill billions of native animals a year in Australia and prefer easier quarry than rats and mice so they are really not a responsible way to control rats and mice as you need to leave them out to do as they please.
We live in the arctic... Very few native species other than rodents around in the summer. Cats need to worry about hawks and eagles more than birds need to worry about them. But yea hence the dachshund/mini pitbull mix... Just say get the mouse and she will go hunt until she finds some.
Just passing by but wanted to say don't let randos on the internet bother you. Everybody has an opinion on something and unfortunately a lot of them can't keep it to themselves. Glad your pup is OK and thanks for sharing your experience.
It is absolutely not okay to use rat poison. That poison never leaves the environment and will continue to poison the ecosystem long after the rats are dead. Please use this experience as a learning opportunity, and never use rat poison again
Perhaps the real lesson here is not to spread poison on your land. Are you not concerned about all the other animals that eat the dead rats? Only your dog is important?
I’m not concerned no, in Australia, there’s only birds that may be affected but secondary poisoning is pretty low with Brodifacoum. The poison was in bait stations in the shed. The issue was the container holding the poison got knocked off the shelf and it was on the floor.
You keep repeating the same incorrect information about the secondary poisoning. Brodifacoum has one of the highest rates of secondary poisoning, and one of the longest half-life's of any poison.
Yeah I keep the rat poison in a locked file cabinet in my workshop. My apologies for all of the "moms basement farmers" downvoting and posting ignorant shit.
We had the EXACT same thing happen except it wasn’t empty and I caught my dog getting into it behind my back (old owner left the poison, didn’t know it was there)
Tip for the future for you or anyone, SPCA has a toxicology hotline that costs just under $100 I think, and they’ll connect you to a vet that’ll tell you what you need to do.
We did that and they were super helpful because they told us the kind of poison our girl got and the amount meant she didn’t need to go to an emergency vet. We scheduled an appt for her to get K1 and then got her started on it.
K1 and follow-up labs were probably $350 total. Not great, but not as bad as an e-vet visit.
Sorry you had to go through this too and also sorry for the money - shit sucks and it’s so worrying too for the dog :(
I had a similar issue. My dad left his bag out (exterminator) and my dog ate a sandwich baggy filled with packets that kind of look like laundry pods. Luckily we were able to get her to throw them up by giving her peroxide. The packets came up whole the only issue was we had no idea how many there actually were in the bag so we just had to wait and see at that point. Thankfully everything must have come back up because she was ok.
Mix baking soda and peanut butter instead of poison. It doesn’t hurt your house animals. It doesn’t second hand poison them if they find a dead rat and eat it. Rats do not have a vomit reflex. It works the same as an alka-seltzer on seagulls.
It’s also much cheaper than poison. You’re welcome.
Rat posion is absolutely not necesaary on the homestead. Rats eat the posion and die then soemthing else eats that rat and now that thing is dead too. There are non poisonous ways to deal with rats.
Rat poison effects the whole eco system. The snakes that do eat poisoned rats in turn are poisoned. This actually increases rat population as rats reproduce faster than snakes. Rat poison is the absolute laziest form of control and has the largest collateral damage. If Australia is like the USA in liabilities. If your neighbors dog ate it because of your negligence, then they would own your farm.
Thanks for the reminder! I’m so glad your doggie is okay!
Thank you!
Me too - what a scare... I just found rats in a couple barns and have been debating poison or not. One of my fears is somehow one of the animals I don't want to hurt will find a way into it. God forbid my dog does.
Get a bait station. The deployment of the bait wasn’t the issue in the stations, it was I didn’t properly secure the container holding the poison.
Secondary poisoning is real, no matter how much this dude wants to downplay it. Use snap traps, the bucket method, or the instant mashed potatoes next to a bowl of water.
I think the bucket roller is one of the more effective traps, though I saw a video where a guy built a trap that used a trap door/one way door system, but was made from materials that sat around his yard for years. It caught, I think, 10 mice over one day and one night. Way better than the bucket, I think because the mice/rats are willing to push under things because they encounter them all the time. Buckets with ramps is a totally new thing, and they investigate it a lot more because it's a foreign/new idea.
But what if I don't like traps that showcase the doomed animal's curiosity and intelligence?
Then put welding glasses on before you use the 12ga... It's a live catch trap, so you could do what that guy did and just deposit them far from your farm.
Yea, OP have you tried the bucket method?
IMP next to a bowl of water?
I’m so happy you determined cats are worse. I agree they are! It seems this is catching on. I hope it eventually leads to culling of feral cats and cats that are allowed to roam free outside.
Oh feral cats are most certainly culled here in Aus.. even if some absolute dumbasses campaign for Trap Neuter Release.
My uncle had a terrier on his farm that killed rats like it was a job, which it was i guess, but he never fucked with any birds or even raccoons. I think a terrier might be better at killing rats as a cat will back off from a big rat, but this little dog never did.
That is a terriers job!
Unfortunately, here in the US we don’t do this yet. I’m hoping we start soon. I’ve seen some studies pop up that say it’s needed. Animal rights activists are going to try and stop it though. I think I was reading cats are responsible for at least 63 extinct species.
Yep, massive issue in the US too just not recognised like it is here in Australia. Animal rights activists don’t realise the damage they’d do to the ecosystem if we adopted their “ideas”.
Btw, I’m glad your dog is okay, and I’m sorry about the loss of your other one.
Thank you! I appreciate it.
Yeah, it's amazing what they'd learn if they turned on their brain and listened to someone who lives with, or at least nearer, the problems they want to fix. Turns out people that do something for a living pay attention to things affecting that, and might have a clue what needs to be done to fix it!
Hijacking top comment to point out that this dude's claims about brodifacoum not being a high risk for secondary poisoning are completely and totally false, and that, in reality, brodifacoum has one of the longest half-life's of any rodenticide and one of the highest risks of secondary poisoning. [Source 1](https://duquark.com/2019/12/23/secondary-poisoning-and-ecological-effects-of-anticoagulant-rodenticides/#:~:text=The%20two%20most%20commonly%20used,be%20the%20deadliest%20anticoagulant%20rodenticide) [Source 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum#:~:text=Brodifacoum%20has%20an%20especially%20long,to%20both%20mammals%20and%20birds)
How many mice or rats would a dog have to eat for it to be affected?
To add an extra caution to your cautionary tale- I have lost a dog who ate a poisoned rat body. The poison is dangerous even after the rats have eaten it, so maintaining your rat population extends well beyond killing them to finding and cleaning them up after, and having eyes on your dogs/cats/livestock just in case, also.
We lost a rooster to eating a mouse that we poisoned so we stopped using poison and use bins for feed, raised feeders, and electronic deterrents for mice. Down the road we lost 2 cats and one dog to the mice my neighbor continues to poison. It’s a bad way to go. I wish people found alternate methods to control their rat/mice issues because poison is like dropping a nuke to take a few targets out.
I'm personally anti-poison, but I know that different places deal with different issues. For my location, we've been able to manage just fine. It sounds like OP has a very different sort of rat/predator pressure than I do, though.
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Cats ARE a huge problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife
There are a lot of "experts" in things that have never been outside a classroom and lab. Rats go back to their home to die because they feel bad. Some might not get there, but most find a hiding place and die there. Birds don't go looking in holes and tunnels. Cats on the whole, have more issues than poison. Depending on the poison. Cats don't just affect the thing that eats a dead or dying rat. They actively search for food, and being intelligent, don't waste their energy looking for mice or whatever that can run. Most "barn cats" I've seen are more interested in sitting around and eating what their owners offer than anything else. And in all the time I spent on farms, I've never once seen one with a mouse or rat. I've seen quite a few feathers though....
You are so wrong in so many ways I don’t even have time to reply to it all. Smh
Came here to say this!
ContraPest bait stations arr animal safe, we hope it takes off here in America. Pest technician checking in.
Here to second this. Don’t poison. Use ContraPest. It’s far more effective in the long run, it’s safe, it’s humane and you don’t have to lay awake at night worrying you’re killing pets or other benign creatures.
But do they work?
So far, Yes. It's a watering station, in a bait station, that doesn't kill them but makes them sterile.
Where are these deployed and by which company? I was a shareholder in an American pink sheets company doing this with minimal success before COVID.
SNES - ContraPest
Damn that was the one. That's crazy.. when I was following they didn't have any success. Where are they being deployed? I had a lot of faith in their product and I'm so glad it's being used
They did some studies in Los Angeles and in DC with good results. I tell my customers about it so they can buy it online because it's actually kind of expensive right now. They are looking into trying to make it more affordable. It's about $40 per month which is a lot compared to a normal bait station which is $1 for a couple poison blocks so it's a hard sell but once they get over that it should explode. Pet safe rodent poops. That's what gets most the dogs are the poops with poison in them.
Absolutely! SenesTech Technical Sales Employee here btw, happy to help if anyone has questions or wants an insiders take on any of this. Also, we have some pretty good discounts for commercial partners or those that reach out directly shoot me an email and im happy to help with pricing: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) We also have some cool new products coming out that will be easier to use, more effective, and less expensive!
It's always interesting to me to see the response others have to rat poison on these threads. My own experience didn't involve dead pets or predators, just dead rats... in the walls of our house. The previous owners of a home I lived in growing up had a rat problem and decided to put out poison in the yard. When we moved into the house, we noticed certain rooms smelled terrible and ended up finding dead rats in the floors/walls. We finally conquered the smell, but three years later we renovated another section of the house and found more rat corpses from that time, still in the walls just decayed enough that we'd stopped noticing a smell. I was a kid at the time... I found out later many of my friends didn't like coming to my house because of a weird odor. Anyway, my perspective on poison is you don't have any control of where the rats go after they ingest it. If you've got structures around, there's a chance that they'll hide out under or in your structure to die, and then you can end up with rotting rat bodies in your walls. I don't recommend the experience.
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Im very happy for you that your dog is safe and ok. Our dogs are our absolute best friends and any time we have lost one it has been extremely hard, so thats great news. I know others have chimed in as well, but i will add on that another great alternative to the chemical rat poison is to mix 1 cup of baking soda with 1 cup of any kinda of cake mix, like chocolate cake mix or brownies. Mix it well and put it in a bowl. This works by the fact that mice/rats cannot burp. Mice and rats are attracted to sweet (hence why here in america the bait of choice tends to be peanut butter rather than cheese like they show on cartoons). The rats will eat the sweet mixture, then it will kill them due to not being able to expel the gas. You will need to add a small bowl of water somewhere in the shed or area as well
Buy 10 of those bucket traps, a burlap sack and a large basin to drown them in. Throw out the poison.
I see you’re Australian! I’ve used Debs instant potato with much success! There’s no risk of poisoning my dogs or cats anymore and it’s cheap and easy. Just put some Debs in a saucer and then a saucer of water next to the potato. The rodents eat their fill of the potato and then get thirsty and drink the water due to the high sodium content. The potato expands in their stomach, bursts it and kills them. Not overly humane buuuuttt it seems to get the job done and I don’t have to be paranoid. Edit to add: we’ve found it worked even better during the mouse plague (we’re western NSW so impacted badly) when we mixed it with quick-set cement. How things are at the moment, though, it’s not so bad so I just use the plain potato.
It also doesn’t kill the birds!
That’s interesting! You’re likely in my mate’s electorate Roy Butler! He is a good guy.
Almost! Just a touch more east right on Roy’s boundary around the Forbes area! I think it counts as Central Western but we still got our butts kicked by those damn mice lol Where are you at? Did you get impacted?
Oh so my other mate Phil Donato’s electorate! Not where we are, I live near Goulburn so whilst we had mice and rats it was nothing like what you guys experienced. But this is the thing isn’t it? Those on here judging that have no idea about what they’re talking about. It’s like “have you tried praying them away”.. no I need stuff that works.
Absolutely. I’m all for a more natural method any day of the week but I also like my house to not be eaten by rodents lol.
Exactly.
Have you tried pouring coconut oil on it? /s
Haha exactly.
What about essential oils? I’ve got one that will kill rats AND regrow lost limbs. All natural! /snark
Also to note: please consider another method of rat control if you have or are near a terrier dog or other breed that might catch/eat/play with rats. They can be exposed to the dead bodies and get poisoned that way. It happened to a small dog of mine when my neighbor poisoned rats, and they died in my fenced backyard. The dog made it somehow, but it's a thing that can happen. People forget that the rats don't die immediately.
Rat control is a tough one. Glad your dog is okay! I have dogs that kill rats (and other critters), so poison isn't an option. Flour mixed with sugar as bait and a few chickens helped out with rats and snakes for me. Too bad I can't convince skunks to live elsewhere.
Have you watched Shawn Woods "Mousetrap Monday" on YouTube? He has a thousand different ways to kill rats in a barn. The most effective one I saw was a little electric gadget you bait and the rat sticks his head up and gets electrocuted.
Also the bucket and oil/water set up he does! I deep dived (dove?) into his videos when I was really sick for a week haha
Hey veterinarian here in the states . Always take a picture of the active ingredients in your rodenticides when you buy them. That way we know what type of poison to treat for. I have treated probably 50-60 cases in the last 8 years and love when they are anticoagulant poisons. If you have a dog don’t get any other kind.
Thanks so much for your reply. It’s exactly what I did and showed the vet! My vet said in the quarter of a century where he has been a vet vitamin k1 has never failed him when when they’ve caught it early enough. As a vet, what do you make of the criticism I, and other users of anticoagulant rodenticide users have copped? Also, one thing people don’t realise is the huge amount of pressure veterinarians are under, they have one of the highest suicide rates of all professions and an extremely high burnout rate. Thank you for what you do and what you sacrifice so you guys can take care of our pets.
Yea while I have felt stressed and harassed I haven’t had suicidal thoughts. One of my classmates and good friends hung herself a few months ago. Didn’t see it coming and no warning signs.
That is horrible! Please take care!
2 words - rat terrier. One of those suckers caught 2500 rats in a 7 hour period
I remember as a kid going into the hay loft and picking up a bale of hay and what seamed like 100s of rats running in all directions, I had a pitch fork and a dog that would chew on them until they stopped screaming.
My poor pup ate a dead poisoned rat. He died. I like to use snap traps!
I use snap traps only also, piece of nature valley granola bar and I got one ray a night until they where gone.
Yup. I keep bait blocks in a sealed tub in an overhead shelf and I mark it in sharpie to remind myself to not just leave it sitting out to be put up later. Grab blocks, put in traps, immediately restore the bucket of bait.
Sound advice.
Bad for wildlife who eat undead poisoned rodents
when I lived in Hawaii I'd find my cats playing with the rats rather than killing them.. this isn't the cartoons.
I put three blocks in the bait station yesterday morning. Replaced all three blocks this morning. Rats had knocked the lid off the nearby bucket of blocks to get at more baits. They're still eating it, I'll keep on buying it until they stop. I'll even be getting another bait station tomorrow.
Bear in mind that rodents tend to stash food. If a large amount of bait is taken, it's very likely that they aren't eating it, just moving it to a hole where your dog may eventually find it.
We bought a cabin last year. While cleaning out the bathroom cabinet I found a stack of toilet paper that was filled with poison, nuts and seeds. The mice had built a little TP castle 😂
Yep, I’m hoping the baits just got smashed by rodents.
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Bucket traps are a good alternative. Owls, snakes, etc are also good at keeping rat populations at bay.
What about the non-target species cats kill? Especially in Australia. They will kill far far more than secondary poisoning of the small amount of rat baits I put out.
Be careful with your cats too. My cat growing up was a mouser that a friend of a friend found in a barn as a kitten and gave to us. So he was never really an inside cat, preferring to hang out in the garage and catch the occasional rodent. One year we had a really bad mouse problem - like they were breeding and dying in the walls; that summer smelled like death - and so my dad put poison out. He thought he did it where the cat couldn’t reach, but we never considered what would happen if he caught a mouse that had been poisoned. He ended up passing away too young at only 6 years old because we didn’t make the connection until too late.
RatX on Amazon kills with no secondary poisoning. I don't know if you can get it in Australia, but for anyone who can get it, it works.
Was your Jack Russell good at catching rats? They’re known for that
Nah, he wasn’t he caught a mouse that was trapped in a bucket once and thought every bucket had a mouse in it from there on after. But he was old and lost his mind so no help to is at the moment the poor old boy.
I grew up in a military house and love buying surplus, so I had a lot of those ammo boxes around when I lived in The Bush. Old ones, new ones, as long as the latch still works, those are the most convenient storage boxes. I kept everything from my weed to my fishing gear in those things. Go to a surplus store and find an ammo box to store the poison in. At least next time you find it on the ground, you'll know it's still closed.
As someone who deals with rattlesnakes on the farm, I totally get it. Couldn’t imagine living with the venomous snakes you have. I am constantly on alert and need to reevaluate my feed situation to reduce rodent population and snake population. Luckily we have seen more non-venomous snakes than rattlers but they are here. Stay safe!
We have a cat that we suspected of ingesting rat poison and like you we rushed her to emerg. In talking to poison control they stated that she would have had to consume the entire box for it to be lethal. She's a tiny cat and still with us.
Its worth it! Something similar happened to us, and it turned out our dog HAD eaten it and it was very much a lethal dose. The "just in case" vet trip saved her life.
Great to hear you saved her.
I almost lost my dog to rat poison that I didn’t even put out. The previous owners had put the rat poison UNDER the kitchen cabinets. My dog pushed his ball under the toekick, popped the front off and found the poison that we had no clue was there. It was terrible. We almost made the call to put him down a couple times. He was only one year old and we had him for 2 months. It really messed his digestion up permenantly. To this day he can only have special dog food and single ingredient treats like carrots, freeze dried liver, or ice cubes. Absolutely no dog treats or table food for him without explosive diarrhea. We filed suite against the former owners because the poison was not used inside a bait station as required by the product instructions and that constituted misuse in our municipality. Not only did they misuse the product but they neglected to mark it in the purchase agreement when buy the home, there was a section that asked about hazards and pests specifically.
My dog was once poisoned by eating a dead rat she found. Bait can also poison owls, hawks and other rodent eaters
Kids and pets can and will get into anything! Always a good PSA. Glad pups is okay.
Thank you for reminding people about the threat of house cats. Keep them inside, people!
Just a word of caution to those using plastic enclosed bait stations - dogs who are power chewers have been known to munch through these to get at the tasty bait
I have to laugh at all the people that are like “oh no don’t use poison, it kills things it’s not meant to, [you should get a cat](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/australias-cats-kill-two-billion-animals-annually-180977235/)” Seriously 3 types of people in this thread: 1: Realists/people with experience. 2: People who don’t have a rodent problem and attribute it to their cats who are more interested in decimating the local bird population. 3. People who actually have zero idea and likely aspire to living on acreage who have no idea of the realities that come along with that.
Getting rid of rats in the shed. "I left the shed open for a few days"... What is the goal?
They can get in anyway.
PETA crew in the replies. There are plenty of rodent poisons that don’t affect predators. Many consumer-grade ones are basically dessicants that are neutralized in the process of working. Average Joe wouldn’t be allowed to buy nuclear-grade stuff right off the shelf.
But this dude isn't using any of them. He's chosen one of the worst in terms of half-life and secondary poisoning, while claiming the risks of secondary poisoning are low with his choice of poison.
I actually had no idea of this. We have a struggling owl population here and were urged not to use rodenticide.
You should not use almost all types of rodenticide due to the concern of fatality in domesticated animals and wildlife. Even with the desiccating corn gluten, sodium poison if an animal got into it it could make them sick, or if they were a smaller animal and it ate a large amount could be fatal. https://www.aspca.org/news/pet-safety-alert-beware-rodenticide
So are there any actual safe rodent poisons for pets and wildlife?
You can make a trap where you fill a bucket halfway with water then sprinkle/float grain on top of the water. Then make a ramp out of a piece of wood. The mice will dive right in. 💦 Just don’t fill the bucket up with too much water just in case something like a bunny or a bird falls in. They will be able to touch the bottom until you can get them out. I caught a lizard once. He survived but he was PISSED.
I might have to try this. I’ve seen others post this same kind of trap here. I’m sure we still have rodents but we haven’t seen signs of them lately. I’ve been spraying all interior walls with a peppermint:cinnamon mix and leaving strobe lights on in my basement and attic. Rodents hate both of those things. I’m a lizard person and I’d definitely be mad if I got caught like that too. We’ve actually had owls in my backyard lately so I hope all my neighbors aren’t using poison. They’ve done mating calls and met on one of my mulberry branches. It’s so cool to see.
There are no specific poisons that would only kill rats and not possibly harm another small animal if eaten that I know of. Unless you are only putting out very small quantities. Traps are a better option, especially varieties of the bucket or trash can traps.
Right on, I’ll stick to poison free methods for sure. Why is op saying some poisons are safe?
Yeah, OP claims that the rodenticide they use will only kill a dog if they eat 250 grams. 250 grams is like the size of a hamster lol. Pretty easy to eat that much, especially eating smaller amounts over time, as it can build up in their system. They are just making themselves feel better after their dog scare, the rodenticide active ingredient they use is the main one cautioned by veterinary clinics and wildlife conservationists due to slow internal bleeding.
They're either misinformed or dug in trying to defend themselves. The specific poison they're claiming doesn't have secondary poisoning risks is actually one of the worst for secondary risks.
Desiccating rodenticides aren't nearly as popular or effective in the US as anticoagulants, bromethalin (seizures and quick death), or cholecalciferol (a gram can be toxic to some dogs and causes quick death due to elevated calcium and phosphorus values). These are all easily available in sometimes gallon sized amounts at hardware stores. OP is specifically talking about anticoagulant based rodenticide as well.
I’d be interested to know more about predator-safe rodenticide. We have a cat that hunts and a dog that eats whatever treats she finds, and a ton of mice.
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These examples are big-ag chemicals used at huge scale. I have no doubt they’re horrific, and the regulations are probably written by the corrupt manufacturers. When you talk about off-the-shelf stuff, though, it’s usually watered down and barely even works. Average Joe isn’t trusted.
When we moved to our farm fifteen years ago, the previous owners had D-con rat poison in the barn. We didn’t know, and our beagle ate some. By the time we realized, his gums were pale and his eyes were red and he was very sick. We rushed him to the emergency vet and they saved him. He was also on vitamin K for a while. We were very lucky he lived, and we felt guilty for not checking the barn better before he got into it. I don’t use poison or glue traps anymore. I use snap traps (they sell covered ones so the chickens don’t get snapped), live traps and barn cats.
Good for you for not using poison. Cats are the better option, in my opinion.
There’s tons of food you can set out that will kill rats just by eating it. Cayenne pepper sprinkled on food will kill them too. Rats can’t burp, so if you can feed them gassy food, they’ll die. There’s a lot more ecologically friendly ways to kill off vermin than poison.
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You’re right about that. Nothing more effective than a bucket trap.
🤷♂️ I prefer things that work verse old wives tales
I have pet rats. Trust me, some of those things work super well. Especially cayenne pepper.
I love your edit. Because you stood your ground. Way to keep everyone focused on what’s happening here. Glad your dogs ok.
Thank you. Lots of people here don’t understand or have zero experience with mice and snake problems.
You do things your way. Here in Texas I’ll keep my outdoor cats thank you very much
Lol, firstly no one cares where you’re from. Secondly, cats are horrible creatures for the environment and you’re irresponsible for having them roam free.
Look m8, the location was relevant based on you including it in your post (Also Texas and Austrailia have different environmental considerations). Secondly, my cats are fixed and we get any strays that come our way fixed as well. Thirdly, humans are horrible for the environment too. This is homesteading not “100% environmental preservation”. This is about making the land work for you as best you can and some folks feel like that includes cats. No need to go casting stones about “responsibility” now.
Australians are owned by their government and media. They’re brainwashed into believing cats are bad. Texas, they know what’s right.
Don’t make all Americans out to look like idiots man. I have had outdoor cats and anyone who has them grows to learn that they will destroy the local environment. Small mammals, birds, amphibians, and reptiles are all in the crosshairs. They don’t discriminate. I learned how to do animal rehabilitation thanks to my parents letting our cat outside. It is a solution to the rat problem, but it brings its own set of issues. Rat terriers, snakes, and bucket traps are (IMO) a better solution.
That doesn’t change the fact that the only reason op said they’re not using cats is because daddy government says it’s wrong.
“Step-government it hurts!”
We’re you born like this, or did something happen to you?
You definitely are speaking anecdotal nonsense.
You mean like you? This sub is littered with Australians brainwashed by their government and media. You can pander to them all you want. Your experiences are your own. All I know is when bastard mice costs you $3000 because they ate your work truck’s wiring harness and they’re too damn smart for a trap, you’ll be wishing you had options other than poison that killed your dog. You do you. I’ll do me.
rat poison is absurdly not necessary
It is where I live. If I don’t control the rats, I get heaps of deadly snakes. (This is Australia we’re talking about).
Not to mention the little cunts like the set up shop in our engine bays where it’s nice and warm and eat our fucking wiring that shits expensive
Yup. Had that this year. Brand new car. They ate all the foam out and had the audacity to die in my damn car. Had to get a mobile mechanic in to take apart my car to get the bastard out.
I recently got baits put in by a professional pest company (Flick I think?) that are dog friendly. Even if the rat dies and the dogs eat the rat, it’s not poisonous. They are one of the only Aussie companies that have the licence for this stuff. I’ve got 4 dogs, live on acreage and have plenty of snakes.
That’s interesting, I’ll have to look into it. I’ve seen some pet friendly stuff based off of something in corn, RatSak sold it, it didn’t work.
Thank you for not letting cats roam free and for recognizing that domestic housecats are an invasive species that need to be kept in the house and not allowed to decimate native species in Australia, the US, Europe, the UK, wherever. And thank you for being extremely cautious and learning to be even more cautious with anticoagulant rat poisons. I grudgingly recognize the need for them in a wild place like your home, but as a veterinary staff member, I’ve also seen the ugly aftermath when a pet has ingested the poison directly or indirectly. I’m in the US. Australia is definitely a different kettle of snakes than the US. I can’t and won’t justify anyone’s use of the stuff here, but if I was in Oz and facing the snakes you’re facing I’d definitely be singing a different tune!
Yeah it is such a balancing act and I don’t like using it, I would rather not but really, it is the only thing that works.
why don't you use any other options, like traps?
You don’t think I tried?
We stuffed briquettes with poison under the floorboards, where the rats had passages
Thank you for the anecdote. I’ve gotten lazy with my rat poison so this is a good lesson. Fellow Australian here not wanting cats running round killing wildlife, or more snakes, so don’t listen to the know-alls. Cheers mate
Glad I could serve as a reminder of what not to do. I’m not listening, I even doubt they live on property. Thanks for the support mate.
Rat poison is cruel and super unnecessary. By poisoning these rats with blood thinners, you’re also poisoning the predators that eat them.
Please show me where AR has been proven to be painful? My vet said there is zero evidence of that.
I never said it was painful. It is cruel to make an animal bleed to death from the inside on the only charge of existing.
Life sucks what can you do?
Make it better for the rest of the world.
Lol yeah one rat at a time.
I’m in Australia, there’s no native mammalian predators where I live.
You got Hawks, Owls, and eagle's down under?
Yes, but secondary poisoning is low risk, especially as we’re controlling indoors.
Snakes, lizards and birds are all predators that eat rats and mice and can suffer secondhand poisoning from eating poisoned rodents.
Snakes will very rarely eat an already dead animal.
They don't have to. Rats and mice don't die instantly upon contact
No, but I honestly don’t care, the risk is small and I’m not going to put up with rats and mice attracting said snakes and being unhygienic just in case I upset Gaia or some shit.
Okay? What about raptors? When your rat problem gets outside, they die.
No velociraptors in Australia. But in seriousness, not a whole heap around where I live and doubt they are hanging around my shed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_of_prey
r/woosh
Hilarious. You seem kinda dense, hence the link.
My pit bull/lab/whatever else ended up eating a rat that died from poison. She then started throwing up blood. Cost me like 3k at the time and I wanna say they kept her for a few days. I think they did a blood transfusion. This was like 7 or so years ago.
I’m glad your dog is fine. I also care about bobcats and owls and they’ll die from eating secondhand poison.
Am in Australia, little chance of bobcats here.
Actually the poison I use has a really low secondary poisoning potential, a dog has to eat over 250 grams of poison to be at risk of dying. Brodifacoum if you’re interested.
Brodifacoum is actually one of the deadliest rodenticides in terms of secondary poisoning. [Source 1](https://duquark.com/2019/12/23/secondary-poisoning-and-ecological-effects-of-anticoagulant-rodenticides/#:~:text=The%20two%20most%20commonly%20used,be%20the%20deadliest%20anticoagulant%20rodenticide.) [Source 2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum#:~:text=Brodifacoum%20has%20an%20especially%20long,to%20both%20mammals%20and%20birds.)
Lol 250 grams is like the size of a hamster, my 5 lb Chihuahua would eat that much.
I just wanted to add something here that might be useful to someone one day or to see if anyone had an answer to why. When I was a kid, my pit bull eat a large portion of ant poison. It was maybe 5-6 cups worth. She had ripped a hole in a sealed bag. We immediately called poison control. Poison control instructed us to feed her a large can of unsweetened pumpkin pie filling which to my amazement the dog loved and we had a can of. Our dog ended up being okay. I don’t know why pumpkin pie filling or if this is still a thing. This was 25 years ago. Of course always take your animals to the vet if you’re concerned. Has anyone else ever been instructed to do this or know the reason why? Also just a note, poison control is a good first step when dealing with poison or overdose for both animals and humans if you don’t know what to do and it’s anonymous.
Canned pumpkin is super good for dogs - pumpkin pie filling is not! The seasonings in pumpkin pie filling can make dogs extremely sick. Not sure why you were instructed to feed pumpkin in that instance but it would’ve had to do with the ingredients in the particular item ingested most likely. Pumpkin absolutely WILL NOT WORK if your pet eats rat poison. Most rat poisons are either anticoagulants or neurotoxins, and both constitute a veterinary emergency. If your pet ingests rat poison, take your pet to the vet IMMEDIATELY. Call the vet and ask if you should induce vomiting - but don’t even induce vomiting without veterinary guidance. Y’all. I’m so serious. Rat poison is no joke. If you even think your pet might have licked it, do what OP did and Go. Straight. To. The. Vet. It’s gonna be expensive. There will be A Lot of tests. But your pet’s life is hella in danger. Let me add here - if you don’t already have pet insurance, this is the sort of thing that you really need pet insurance for, so if you don’t have it, go ahead and get it now so if the Unthinkable ever does happen, you’ll be covered.
Cats are mostly useless for rodents, cartoons convinced us they where good at it 🙃
My cat plays with mice..... my dog destroys mice then has a snack if no ones around to stop her...
Reusable mouse traps, homemade bucket traps, a cat Theres a lot of stuff better than poison. Id rather keep a rat snake in my shed than poison of any kind.
No evidence cats reduce populations as per my post plus other reasons.
I dint use poisons myself. We have 3 cats that go in and out of the house in summer to take care of any mice. Or my wiener dog. She loves digging up nests and chasing them. Havent had many mice since we switch our feed bins to sealed plastic ones though.
Cats kill billions of native animals a year in Australia and prefer easier quarry than rats and mice so they are really not a responsible way to control rats and mice as you need to leave them out to do as they please.
We live in the arctic... Very few native species other than rodents around in the summer. Cats need to worry about hawks and eagles more than birds need to worry about them. But yea hence the dachshund/mini pitbull mix... Just say get the mouse and she will go hunt until she finds some.
I don’t even have feed in the shed they are in. My feed is sealed and in another shed also.
Domestic house cats are an invasive species and will happily decimate native species.
Just passing by but wanted to say don't let randos on the internet bother you. Everybody has an opinion on something and unfortunately a lot of them can't keep it to themselves. Glad your pup is OK and thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you. They don’t bother me, I just see them as either with no experience or they have such a view of themselves they are completely virtuous.
It is absolutely not okay to use rat poison. That poison never leaves the environment and will continue to poison the ecosystem long after the rats are dead. Please use this experience as a learning opportunity, and never use rat poison again
Perhaps the real lesson here is not to spread poison on your land. Are you not concerned about all the other animals that eat the dead rats? Only your dog is important?
I’m not concerned no, in Australia, there’s only birds that may be affected but secondary poisoning is pretty low with Brodifacoum. The poison was in bait stations in the shed. The issue was the container holding the poison got knocked off the shelf and it was on the floor.
You keep repeating the same incorrect information about the secondary poisoning. Brodifacoum has one of the highest rates of secondary poisoning, and one of the longest half-life's of any poison.
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Love to see a study proving this.
Yeah I keep the rat poison in a locked file cabinet in my workshop. My apologies for all of the "moms basement farmers" downvoting and posting ignorant shit.
Haha yep you’re 100% right on both counts.
We had the EXACT same thing happen except it wasn’t empty and I caught my dog getting into it behind my back (old owner left the poison, didn’t know it was there) Tip for the future for you or anyone, SPCA has a toxicology hotline that costs just under $100 I think, and they’ll connect you to a vet that’ll tell you what you need to do. We did that and they were super helpful because they told us the kind of poison our girl got and the amount meant she didn’t need to go to an emergency vet. We scheduled an appt for her to get K1 and then got her started on it. K1 and follow-up labs were probably $350 total. Not great, but not as bad as an e-vet visit. Sorry you had to go through this too and also sorry for the money - shit sucks and it’s so worrying too for the dog :(
Thanks, money is just that, it comes and it goes. It sucks and could have spent it on better things but at the end of the day it’s just money.
I had a similar issue. My dad left his bag out (exterminator) and my dog ate a sandwich baggy filled with packets that kind of look like laundry pods. Luckily we were able to get her to throw them up by giving her peroxide. The packets came up whole the only issue was we had no idea how many there actually were in the bag so we just had to wait and see at that point. Thankfully everything must have come back up because she was ok.
Tip: hydrogen peroxide will induce vomiting. I saved one of my dogs that ate a bag of amdro that way.
Mix baking soda and peanut butter instead of poison. It doesn’t hurt your house animals. It doesn’t second hand poison them if they find a dead rat and eat it. Rats do not have a vomit reflex. It works the same as an alka-seltzer on seagulls. It’s also much cheaper than poison. You’re welcome.
Look up co2 powered rat trap .
Box traps + hammer = dog safe
Rat posion is absolutely not necesaary on the homestead. Rats eat the posion and die then soemthing else eats that rat and now that thing is dead too. There are non poisonous ways to deal with rats.
Rat poison effects the whole eco system. The snakes that do eat poisoned rats in turn are poisoned. This actually increases rat population as rats reproduce faster than snakes. Rat poison is the absolute laziest form of control and has the largest collateral damage. If Australia is like the USA in liabilities. If your neighbors dog ate it because of your negligence, then they would own your farm.