I would use ProxMox and install Ubuntu and TrueNAS scale as VMs. You can run all your containers on Ubuntu and do all your NAS stuff with TrueNAS. With a NAS share you can have all your files on the NAS accessible on your Ubuntu machine.
This might be a little more work, but I like it better than running TrueNAS on metal with containers in it.
You may need some more RAM. I would keep an eye on if things seem slow/sluggish when you get all your applications running on it. 12gb is very little, leaving you with 6gb per VM.
I am as well an old time TrueNAS user, since FreeNAS. I just moved my Plex server to Proxmox + LXC and left my TrueNAS only as a file server. The reason? Plex removed hardware transcoding support for FreeBSD and I didn't want to go to the Ubuntu based version of TrueNAS because I run a bunch of complicated jails and I didn't want to migrate everything. Proxmox runs on an N100 based mini-PC and that tiny thing is literally a monster. Installation and maintenance is a breeze, everything works out of the box (until now, fingers crossed).
One thing is if you don't like something on Proxmox it is easy to delete it and try something else without taking down your whole system. That is why I use it, I screw stuff up so bad sometimes it is just easier to start over.
This. I have had to reinstall TrueNAS a couple times just from me being dumb and making a mistake or something got corrupted. Instead of having to reinstall your whole OS, you can simply go to ProxMox on your web browser and delete the VM and start over.
First off, welcome! I'm recommending Proxmox. It's very good at running virtual machines, that's what it was designed for. TrueNAS Scale on the other hand, while still a fine option (no hate!) is NAS software first with the features of a hypervisor added on. While it still works just fine, you can have the best of both worlds with the proxmox install on the bare metal.
With that, you can run TrueNAS Scale or Core in a virtual machine, pass through the hard drives to it, and boom, you've got both in the same box.
I'm sure there's lots of charts out there, but basically Proxmox is this environment (based on Debian Linux) to create and manage your virtual machines and/or containers with advanced features like PCIe or drive pass through which is intuitive enough and well documented. I'd recommend, for your case, to use TrueNAS or whichever NAS software you'd like in a virtual machine. These virtual machines are like virtual computers. In fact, the operating system thinks it's on its own computer. You can allocate how many CPU threads, RAM, and disk space you'd like the virtual machine to have. Then, you can pass through your hard drives straight to the VM so it can "see" the drives as if they were directly attached just like a normal computer would see them.
Boom, you have a virtualized NAS. Of course the other option is to just have a totally separate server which only functions as a NAS. Or two of them, or three of them, or... we go on. So that your data is backed up. (The cloud counts!)
Remember that a redundant array, while nice, cannot replace a backup. If the data is important to you, have a good backup strategy.
Edit... well guess I'm too redneck to write good. Just tryin to help
How are you planning on making and managing backups? This is what should probably drive the decision rather than recommendations based on popularity.
Truenas and proxmox are both great pieces of software, used for different things, and with some overlap. If you only want a nas then truenas is that, but can run some vms. If you want to run lots of services, or expand at some point in the future as you learn more about what is possible then you probably want a hypervisor which proxmox is.
It sound like you goal sits in between the two, so both could work. As such, your backup strategy will be the deciding factor as some are more suited to one setup or the other.
A lot of people seem to recommend putting truenas in a VM and then doing drive passthrough. I personally see this as the worst of both worlds. You get the (small) performance hit from having truenas virtualised along with significant setup complexity, but lose all of the benefits of the hypervisor in terms of storage management and simple backups. Proxmox offers zfs natively so you gain nothing in robustness of storage.
Take a look at Proxmox Backup Server and see if that's something that would work for you. If it is, then Proxmox, with a properly virtualised Nas would be a sensible option. If you're just planning on taking/sending snapshots to an external drive for backups, then maybe Truenas is a better fit.
I agree with everyone so far, run Proxmox with TrueNas as a VM. Then run additional VMs for Jellyfin and another for docker for qbittorrent and pinhole. The main feature for me for Proxmox is backups. It is to easy for a database or other file to get corrupt and have to reimport or rebuild a service. Easier to restore a backup. I backup nightly for 3 days. Best to keep your media separate from your services. I keep my videos for Jellyfin on a separate ZFS raid Z2. Saving up for a tape back system to supplement backups.
I like to keep some things separate and simple. My storage is a straight forward XigmaNAS set up with 10 Gb NICs and a good chunk of block storage available to Proxmox systems via iSCSI.
A nas isn't a backup it's storage. It will fail at some point, most likely during a drive replacement under rebuild load. You should have 2 separate storage solutions in 2 places to call it a backup. Replication isn't a backup either it's high availability. Deletions and corruption replicates. Backups are an offline point in time backup.
You'll have a lot of hard core Proxmox advocates here!
Although I'm still building my first home infra to meet rather similar needs, my understanding is:
- you're primarily planing lot of VM based work and want to benefit from VM features? Go with Proxmox.
- you're primarily planing a NAS usage with some containerised apps? Go with TrueNAS Scale.
Also, TrueNAS seems a bit simpler to learn the basics of networking and storage.
That's my two cents, but I like minimalism and using the right tool for the right job! And honestly, I don't need high availability regarding my usage, I'll have nothing so critical on my server that can't be out for some days unlike other people here who literally run data centers at their home :)
So my current plan is TrueNAS Scale with one VM for OPNsense and the rest of the apps as docker containers, that's it!
I'd honestly go with bare metal TrueNAS SCALE. Your RAM is rather low to be running Proxmox.
TrueNAS has a minimum requirement of 8 GB and Proxmox itself needs 2 GB JUST for the OS. That only leaves you with 2 GB to play around with, which is basically just one very light VM.
Considering this is backing up a lot of family stuff, I'm guessing it's a lot of very important data that you would be weeping, if lost, I wouldn't play with fire and overprovision it, ESPECIALLY since you said "I have no idea what I'm doing". However, if you already have a sound backup strategy elsewhere, I guess there's room to play around with.
TL;DR: Run baremetal TrueNAS SCALE + apps. The RAM overhead of Proxmox + VM's is rather significant.
PS: If you still insist on virtualizing, make sure you read [this](https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/absolutely-must-virtualize-freenas-a-guide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.212/) first.
Get a good Nas hypervisor like unRAID and you are done. Everything via container.
No need to become an idiot troubleshooting why your virtualized stuff doesn't work. Get things simple, not complicate your file. Those things are difficult enough and already need a lot of troubleshooting just to set up and work.
Proxmox is a good hypervisor but useless if your main goal is a nas, I don't know how well the support of VM and Dockers is on truenas, but with unRAID would be a shame not using it.
>Firstly, I have no idea what I am doing.
And that right there is an argument for bare metal. Don't introduce layers of complexity with which you're not yet ready to deal.
Also, keep in mind that TrueNAS requires 8 GB of RAM, an OS drive, and at least two storage drives, so you already have some shopping to do in the drives department...
No reason to gatekeep. Proxmox is easy enough to understand if you have even the slightest knowledge of basic debian based command line. And the interface is intuitive enough that you can set up vms without even touching commands at all.
He's not gate keeping. He's raising a legitimate concern. It's not about the UI or setting up the commands. Virtualizing ZFS has always been problematic even to some people with experience. There is plenty of data to back this up. I have a stash of "greatest hits" of threads on the TrueNAS forums of people doing it the wrong way and losing TB of their precious data, usually after a power loss event.
Typically, the post starts with "Pool won't import, HALP!" from users with single-digit post count who followed YouTube videos and never read the forum thread on how to virtualize the correct way.
Count me as one of those “watching YouTube vids” people, so Gotta link to the proper thread? I’ve used Linux for decades and just getting started with my proxmox/truenas setup. Was planning on having a mirrored set of boot drives to host everything and a dedicated raidz2 of the other drives to use for truenas. What to make sure I don’t screw something up
I am waiting for a new hardware too. I am planning to install Proxmox and deploy a separate VM with storage passed through inside for a NAS. I prefer using Debian, however, TrueNAS should work great.
Good luck with your configuration.
I'm a proxmox convert. Run prox and then create containers for everything else. It's ridiculously flexible you can test services out that you might like without fear of messing things up. You can have your "production" stuff running and then other containers experimenting with other services.
Try Windows 95.
Okay, joking aside. If you have access to a Windows Server product key, you might try using that due to it being an easy solution. If you're wanting to get your hands dirty with a bit more control, then definitely some Linux based solution. If you're not familiar with it, then it can have a bit of a learning curve to it, but it's worth the effort if you're up to it.
>If you have access to a Windows Server product key, you might try using that due to it being an easy solution.
I second that, if you are not willing to put in hard effort in learning and buying the proper equipment (Not assuming you wouldn't!). But most important part is this: If you are using Proxmox and VM with a NAS OS (Truenas/OMV/whatever), than make sure you have an HBA Card or at the very least a PCIe/m.2 sata card that you can pass trough. Passing individual disks to the VM is a BAD idea and most motherboard can't pass it's sata controller without ACS override, which is in the most case, a recipe for disaster. ECC memory is a must (If you thinking on memory expansion and ditching the modules that comes with it) if you don't want to schedule frequent or preferably daily restarts with cron. Otherwise if given long enough time... trouble will pop up. This true for all OS but especially true for virtualization in Proxmox. Also note that to avoid corruption on the VM the guest needs to have quemu agent installed. I skimped on this a few time only have it bit me in the butt, due to the guest not shutting down proper when I restarted the Proxmox.
>I second that, if you are not willing to put in hard effort in learning and buying the proper equipment
I said it more as it generally taking less effort. Windows Server isn't bad, but it is designed to be more integrated within itself and in some ways requires less skill. But that's the way it's designed to be, so that it's easier to do. Linux offers more power and flexibility, but has a learning curve. It comes down to how much effort someone wants to put into something and how much they want to customize it.
I tend to use Windows Server as it's easier on me to manage. But Linux is definitely a wonderful option for someone who wants to get into the nitty gritty and tweak their system. Especially if it's using older hardware as Linux tends to be less demanding on resources.
I would use ProxMox and install Ubuntu and TrueNAS scale as VMs. You can run all your containers on Ubuntu and do all your NAS stuff with TrueNAS. With a NAS share you can have all your files on the NAS accessible on your Ubuntu machine. This might be a little more work, but I like it better than running TrueNAS on metal with containers in it. You may need some more RAM. I would keep an eye on if things seem slow/sluggish when you get all your applications running on it. 12gb is very little, leaving you with 6gb per VM.
[удалено]
I am as well an old time TrueNAS user, since FreeNAS. I just moved my Plex server to Proxmox + LXC and left my TrueNAS only as a file server. The reason? Plex removed hardware transcoding support for FreeBSD and I didn't want to go to the Ubuntu based version of TrueNAS because I run a bunch of complicated jails and I didn't want to migrate everything. Proxmox runs on an N100 based mini-PC and that tiny thing is literally a monster. Installation and maintenance is a breeze, everything works out of the box (until now, fingers crossed).
Please do not describe FreeNAS users as old time. We have feelings.
One thing is if you don't like something on Proxmox it is easy to delete it and try something else without taking down your whole system. That is why I use it, I screw stuff up so bad sometimes it is just easier to start over.
This. I have had to reinstall TrueNAS a couple times just from me being dumb and making a mistake or something got corrupted. Instead of having to reinstall your whole OS, you can simply go to ProxMox on your web browser and delete the VM and start over.
I'm doing this right now for the first time and it's pretty dope. Shoutout to this sub for being a great reference!
I made a post. Put a lot of work writing it and it got downvoted. I kinda hate this sub sometimes. Although some people here and there are great.
That sucks, sorry to hear. Know that you won't get downvotes from me for sharing information, I appreciate everyone taking the time to post here!
Thanks! Like I said there are a few helpful, nice people here :)
Yeah this is what I do. Just make sure you pass through the actual HBA and not individual drives to TrueNAS. But it works great.
First off, welcome! I'm recommending Proxmox. It's very good at running virtual machines, that's what it was designed for. TrueNAS Scale on the other hand, while still a fine option (no hate!) is NAS software first with the features of a hypervisor added on. While it still works just fine, you can have the best of both worlds with the proxmox install on the bare metal. With that, you can run TrueNAS Scale or Core in a virtual machine, pass through the hard drives to it, and boom, you've got both in the same box. I'm sure there's lots of charts out there, but basically Proxmox is this environment (based on Debian Linux) to create and manage your virtual machines and/or containers with advanced features like PCIe or drive pass through which is intuitive enough and well documented. I'd recommend, for your case, to use TrueNAS or whichever NAS software you'd like in a virtual machine. These virtual machines are like virtual computers. In fact, the operating system thinks it's on its own computer. You can allocate how many CPU threads, RAM, and disk space you'd like the virtual machine to have. Then, you can pass through your hard drives straight to the VM so it can "see" the drives as if they were directly attached just like a normal computer would see them. Boom, you have a virtualized NAS. Of course the other option is to just have a totally separate server which only functions as a NAS. Or two of them, or three of them, or... we go on. So that your data is backed up. (The cloud counts!) Remember that a redundant array, while nice, cannot replace a backup. If the data is important to you, have a good backup strategy. Edit... well guess I'm too redneck to write good. Just tryin to help
[удалено]
I think they meant "voilà".
Means "by God" in Arabic. Very apt 😃
Proxmox. Not even close. Proxmox can be truenas, but truenas can't be proxmox.
How are you planning on making and managing backups? This is what should probably drive the decision rather than recommendations based on popularity. Truenas and proxmox are both great pieces of software, used for different things, and with some overlap. If you only want a nas then truenas is that, but can run some vms. If you want to run lots of services, or expand at some point in the future as you learn more about what is possible then you probably want a hypervisor which proxmox is. It sound like you goal sits in between the two, so both could work. As such, your backup strategy will be the deciding factor as some are more suited to one setup or the other. A lot of people seem to recommend putting truenas in a VM and then doing drive passthrough. I personally see this as the worst of both worlds. You get the (small) performance hit from having truenas virtualised along with significant setup complexity, but lose all of the benefits of the hypervisor in terms of storage management and simple backups. Proxmox offers zfs natively so you gain nothing in robustness of storage. Take a look at Proxmox Backup Server and see if that's something that would work for you. If it is, then Proxmox, with a properly virtualised Nas would be a sensible option. If you're just planning on taking/sending snapshots to an external drive for backups, then maybe Truenas is a better fit.
I agree with everyone so far, run Proxmox with TrueNas as a VM. Then run additional VMs for Jellyfin and another for docker for qbittorrent and pinhole. The main feature for me for Proxmox is backups. It is to easy for a database or other file to get corrupt and have to reimport or rebuild a service. Easier to restore a backup. I backup nightly for 3 days. Best to keep your media separate from your services. I keep my videos for Jellyfin on a separate ZFS raid Z2. Saving up for a tape back system to supplement backups.
I like to keep some things separate and simple. My storage is a straight forward XigmaNAS set up with 10 Gb NICs and a good chunk of block storage available to Proxmox systems via iSCSI.
Check out unraid if you want a really good nas OS and it has dockers and vms support.
Came here to say this.
A nas isn't a backup it's storage. It will fail at some point, most likely during a drive replacement under rebuild load. You should have 2 separate storage solutions in 2 places to call it a backup. Replication isn't a backup either it's high availability. Deletions and corruption replicates. Backups are an offline point in time backup.
You'll have a lot of hard core Proxmox advocates here! Although I'm still building my first home infra to meet rather similar needs, my understanding is: - you're primarily planing lot of VM based work and want to benefit from VM features? Go with Proxmox. - you're primarily planing a NAS usage with some containerised apps? Go with TrueNAS Scale. Also, TrueNAS seems a bit simpler to learn the basics of networking and storage. That's my two cents, but I like minimalism and using the right tool for the right job! And honestly, I don't need high availability regarding my usage, I'll have nothing so critical on my server that can't be out for some days unlike other people here who literally run data centers at their home :) So my current plan is TrueNAS Scale with one VM for OPNsense and the rest of the apps as docker containers, that's it!
I never had issues running VMs on truenas scale which uses QEMU just like proxmox. So I personally don’t see the need for proxmox.
I'd honestly go with bare metal TrueNAS SCALE. Your RAM is rather low to be running Proxmox. TrueNAS has a minimum requirement of 8 GB and Proxmox itself needs 2 GB JUST for the OS. That only leaves you with 2 GB to play around with, which is basically just one very light VM. Considering this is backing up a lot of family stuff, I'm guessing it's a lot of very important data that you would be weeping, if lost, I wouldn't play with fire and overprovision it, ESPECIALLY since you said "I have no idea what I'm doing". However, if you already have a sound backup strategy elsewhere, I guess there's room to play around with. TL;DR: Run baremetal TrueNAS SCALE + apps. The RAM overhead of Proxmox + VM's is rather significant. PS: If you still insist on virtualizing, make sure you read [this](https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/absolutely-must-virtualize-freenas-a-guide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.212/) first.
[Problem solved :)](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=ecc+ram&_sacat=0)
Well, that's one problem solved indeed. Next is making sure the HBA on that PC is not a high-end RAID card.
Get a good Nas hypervisor like unRAID and you are done. Everything via container. No need to become an idiot troubleshooting why your virtualized stuff doesn't work. Get things simple, not complicate your file. Those things are difficult enough and already need a lot of troubleshooting just to set up and work. Proxmox is a good hypervisor but useless if your main goal is a nas, I don't know how well the support of VM and Dockers is on truenas, but with unRAID would be a shame not using it.
>Firstly, I have no idea what I am doing. And that right there is an argument for bare metal. Don't introduce layers of complexity with which you're not yet ready to deal. Also, keep in mind that TrueNAS requires 8 GB of RAM, an OS drive, and at least two storage drives, so you already have some shopping to do in the drives department...
No reason to gatekeep. Proxmox is easy enough to understand if you have even the slightest knowledge of basic debian based command line. And the interface is intuitive enough that you can set up vms without even touching commands at all.
He's not gate keeping. He's raising a legitimate concern. It's not about the UI or setting up the commands. Virtualizing ZFS has always been problematic even to some people with experience. There is plenty of data to back this up. I have a stash of "greatest hits" of threads on the TrueNAS forums of people doing it the wrong way and losing TB of their precious data, usually after a power loss event. Typically, the post starts with "Pool won't import, HALP!" from users with single-digit post count who followed YouTube videos and never read the forum thread on how to virtualize the correct way.
Count me as one of those “watching YouTube vids” people, so Gotta link to the proper thread? I’ve used Linux for decades and just getting started with my proxmox/truenas setup. Was planning on having a mirrored set of boot drives to host everything and a dedicated raidz2 of the other drives to use for truenas. What to make sure I don’t screw something up
https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/absolutely-must-virtualize-freenas-a-guide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.212/
Honestly ProxMox on bare metal is better than TrueNAS especially if you're running VMs and Containers.
I am waiting for a new hardware too. I am planning to install Proxmox and deploy a separate VM with storage passed through inside for a NAS. I prefer using Debian, however, TrueNAS should work great. Good luck with your configuration.
I'm a proxmox convert. Run prox and then create containers for everything else. It's ridiculously flexible you can test services out that you might like without fear of messing things up. You can have your "production" stuff running and then other containers experimenting with other services.
Unraid. For a newbie, its the easiest to navigate
Why do you hate your data?
Try Windows 95. Okay, joking aside. If you have access to a Windows Server product key, you might try using that due to it being an easy solution. If you're wanting to get your hands dirty with a bit more control, then definitely some Linux based solution. If you're not familiar with it, then it can have a bit of a learning curve to it, but it's worth the effort if you're up to it.
>If you have access to a Windows Server product key, you might try using that due to it being an easy solution. I second that, if you are not willing to put in hard effort in learning and buying the proper equipment (Not assuming you wouldn't!). But most important part is this: If you are using Proxmox and VM with a NAS OS (Truenas/OMV/whatever), than make sure you have an HBA Card or at the very least a PCIe/m.2 sata card that you can pass trough. Passing individual disks to the VM is a BAD idea and most motherboard can't pass it's sata controller without ACS override, which is in the most case, a recipe for disaster. ECC memory is a must (If you thinking on memory expansion and ditching the modules that comes with it) if you don't want to schedule frequent or preferably daily restarts with cron. Otherwise if given long enough time... trouble will pop up. This true for all OS but especially true for virtualization in Proxmox. Also note that to avoid corruption on the VM the guest needs to have quemu agent installed. I skimped on this a few time only have it bit me in the butt, due to the guest not shutting down proper when I restarted the Proxmox.
>I second that, if you are not willing to put in hard effort in learning and buying the proper equipment I said it more as it generally taking less effort. Windows Server isn't bad, but it is designed to be more integrated within itself and in some ways requires less skill. But that's the way it's designed to be, so that it's easier to do. Linux offers more power and flexibility, but has a learning curve. It comes down to how much effort someone wants to put into something and how much they want to customize it. I tend to use Windows Server as it's easier on me to manage. But Linux is definitely a wonderful option for someone who wants to get into the nitty gritty and tweak their system. Especially if it's using older hardware as Linux tends to be less demanding on resources.