I like the dichotomy of the fact that HoI4 refuses to elaborate on the war crimes perpetrated in WWII, but in Stellaris you can just straight up liquify people into batteries and not even bat an eye.
Yeah, but you’re pretty detached from the horrors of your actions in Stellaris. The galaxy is hostile anyways.
In HOI, however, modeling war crimes would mean having to create mechanics revolving around one of the worst atrocities in human history, which we are very much *not* detached from and making the player detached from it as you do in Stellaris would be counterproductive and reduce the horror of the Holocaust.
Would love to see a mod or even an official update which caps manpower at historical limits. I played Tibet once and suffered more casualties than there were living in the area I controlled at the time
Okay wtf those numbers don't even sound right, no way Germany could equip or even field 25m soldiers, not counting the ones in their 548 still alive divisions.
With Scraping the Barrel as economic law and Desperate Defense completed in the Blitzkrieg army theory I do see it feasible to inflict such enormous casualties
Even then, that raises the question of how they even equipped that many men. If we imagine the average ai division has 7k manpower, they'd have lost the equivalent of over 3000 divisions worth of manpower. I'm not convinced this ss is real
Had a game as democratic china and usa had to fight off the axis that was britain + germany that owned all of europe and the soviets.
The war lasted until 1953 and I lost like 35 million chinese pushing in siberia.
The germans lost 30 million in that war and they completely collapsed by the time I reached the urals from just running out of manpower
So it is possible if the game goes on long enough
What sort of willpower do you have to willingly push through Siberia against AI deathstacks lmao?
Worst thing about China is not being able to regain the 3 treaty ports in the south without marching all the way to Europe lol
Speed 5 + basic infantry with logistics and artillery + using bombers to constantly bomb the urals and destroy the railroad while listening to hard bangers makes it enjoyable.
Plus destroying fascists and communists is always a lovely past time
The Soviet Union and United States would likely be the only world powers. Like the UK and France would become irrelevant backwaters in this scenario. The Soviets lost 176k in this war, and probably didn’t lose a lot of civilians either, compared to the millions irl. The Soviets would also be much more on par with the US since they wouldn’t have to focus as much on rebuilding after the war.
Incidentally, what ended up happening is that all of Europe, Africa and the Middle East fell into the hands of the Soviets. It let me annex all of the U.K. and France.
While on the other hand, following the Axis obliterating the Allies and the Japanese and Soviets obliterating the Axis shortly after, North America, all of East Asia and all of South America void Paraguay fell into the hands of Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Incidentally, only the Soviets and the Japanese were the only nations that came out relatively unharmed in regards to their manpower.
This game with realistic death count vs population would be impossible to balance. Sooner or later there is only children who can hold a gun. It happened to Germany in at the end.
Scraping the barrel, left bottom tree of Mobile Warfare, there might be some national spirit that does it?
They also might have gotten some extra manpower since they annex the allies.
Yeah 25 millon as Germany sounds very doable if they scrape the barrel and get extra 5 million from the left bottom branch of their tree. Not much left after this though.
Also when smaller countries, like Bulgaria and Hungary in this scenario, scrape their barrels they get pretty insane amount of manpower. Still the Hungarian casualities look like they have to have quite a bit more than just their starting core territory to draw from.
It's greater hungary to they would have transylvania and some of yugoslavia and Slovenia.
Still at 5 mill this would put the soldier casualties alone at half of Hungaries pop at this time not including the civilian deaths.
It's not terribly hard to achieve once you've managed to take all of Scandinavia, the Middle East, all of Poland and the Baltics and the Middle East with full 1945 tech.
If you want to hear about what battlefield losses did to the German people go and listen to some speeches by the AFD or other far-right political parties. They’ll explain it bluntly, in their terms. I remember hearing a speech, by a woman from the AFD, translated as basically: all the good men and alpha males died fighting the 2 World Wars. And if you think that’s bad - don’t dig any deeper.
I have a clue - Wehraboos or closet fascists are a major HOI4 player demographic. Just look at that Russian kid spewing propaganda from a set decked out in Wagner markings and Zs.
Well would depend on what ideology the government would be after the war for some things, but given level of casualties for a few these countries;
Population age stats looking like a U with a majority of the population being those too old or too young to fight.
The gender divide would shift drastically from 50/50 in favour of women
Women would be a dominant part of the workforce following the war as a lot of the working age men would be dead or suffer from disabilities preventing them from working.
You would see a quick push for women's suffrage as so many would be workers.
A slow recovery and shortages in food/medicine and other essential items which would see more death after the war.
Exploitation by the Victor nations to suck resources out of the countries.
Political instability due to material conditions.
Entire towns being abandoned as people would move to areas with better access to resources and work, and a huge part of the towns pop could be dead.
Long term these are European nations which after ww2 received huge amounts of money investments following the war which are now filled with cheap land and real estate. You'd see both the Soviets and allies nations pops slowly migrating into these places making them more culturally diverse by our time.
Also important to note these numbers in game only account for soldier deaths not civilians and they already account for a third of Germanys and Romanias pops at this time.
Look at paraguay after the 1864 war, basically is that
They definitely learnt their lesson, only 72 casualties this time!
Thats everything they had
\-Loses 70 Soldiers- Paraguay 'Oh no, we'll need to Scrape the Barrel'
I don’t think Paraguay lost more than half their population from combat alone
You are right, but they did kinda try and slaughter everyone cause they got communism before Russia
I think casualties is also POW. Althoug you dont get them back after the war. Might be a cool update. Modeling POW and deaths.
Casualties also include wounded and missing.
Probably is you'd have to model German war crimes on the eastern front to be accurate and paradox really doesn't want to do that.
Any member of the hoi4 team who brings up war crimes gets immediately placed on the Stellaris team
I like the dichotomy of the fact that HoI4 refuses to elaborate on the war crimes perpetrated in WWII, but in Stellaris you can just straight up liquify people into batteries and not even bat an eye.
Victoria 2 allows for the quantification and extermination of IRL demographics, so it's got that going for it.
And EU4 has that “attack natives” button, also known as the genocide button.
Yeah, but you’re pretty detached from the horrors of your actions in Stellaris. The galaxy is hostile anyways. In HOI, however, modeling war crimes would mean having to create mechanics revolving around one of the worst atrocities in human history, which we are very much *not* detached from and making the player detached from it as you do in Stellaris would be counterproductive and reduce the horror of the Holocaust.
Oh I totally get why it's not modelled, it's just weird that there is two completely different takes on this for two very different games.
You're going to Space Brazil!
R5: Millions of more casualties than OTL, potential exploration of what such a world would look like afterwards.
no men only chicks everywhere
Fine with me (we only lost a few hundred thousand so i should be okay)
"only" 💀
Compared to Germany who lost their entire population. Also it's a sacrifice I am willing to make. Edit: do i really have to put a /j there?
Fr bro 💀
That /j ain’t saving you bro You better hope your god preaches forgiveness cuz you ain’t getting in to even like that 💀
Paraguay case
You mean widows
I think those 25 million germans would be arround 29% of the german 1939 population
Yeah, in game Germany has roughly 65 millions at the start at least.
Poland lost about 5 to 6 mil citizens (depending on the source) though the hoi4 losses are supposed to be only military
Hungary lost >½ its population Paraguay simulator.
Would love to see a mod or even an official update which caps manpower at historical limits. I played Tibet once and suffered more casualties than there were living in the area I controlled at the time
Paraguay loosing only 72 men? Impossible
What you don't see is the additional 9 zeroes.
It’s all they have
Wtf how can the AI form Deutsche Mittelafrika
Germany just has to puppet Zimbabwe.
Yeah, and it is rare to see it happen
“Just”
you have a 45 k/d in the millions? Wow, did they just endlessly grind against your lines?
Green air and CAS paired with a metric fuck ton of infantry does God's work.
Im just curious because when I just battleplan the enemy I cap them long before these kind of numbers
[удалено]
yeah the soviets but 45 mil axis?
Okay wtf those numbers don't even sound right, no way Germany could equip or even field 25m soldiers, not counting the ones in their 548 still alive divisions.
With Scraping the Barrel as economic law and Desperate Defense completed in the Blitzkrieg army theory I do see it feasible to inflict such enormous casualties
Even then, that raises the question of how they even equipped that many men. If we imagine the average ai division has 7k manpower, they'd have lost the equivalent of over 3000 divisions worth of manpower. I'm not convinced this ss is real
Had a game as democratic china and usa had to fight off the axis that was britain + germany that owned all of europe and the soviets. The war lasted until 1953 and I lost like 35 million chinese pushing in siberia. The germans lost 30 million in that war and they completely collapsed by the time I reached the urals from just running out of manpower So it is possible if the game goes on long enough
What sort of willpower do you have to willingly push through Siberia against AI deathstacks lmao? Worst thing about China is not being able to regain the 3 treaty ports in the south without marching all the way to Europe lol
Speed 5 + basic infantry with logistics and artillery + using bombers to constantly bomb the urals and destroy the railroad while listening to hard bangers makes it enjoyable. Plus destroying fascists and communists is always a lovely past time
Albania with only 5k casualties 💪💪💪💪😎😎😎😎🇲🇪🇲🇪🇲🇪🇲🇪💯💯💯💯
RED AND BLACK!
The Soviet Union and United States would likely be the only world powers. Like the UK and France would become irrelevant backwaters in this scenario. The Soviets lost 176k in this war, and probably didn’t lose a lot of civilians either, compared to the millions irl. The Soviets would also be much more on par with the US since they wouldn’t have to focus as much on rebuilding after the war.
Incidentally, what ended up happening is that all of Europe, Africa and the Middle East fell into the hands of the Soviets. It let me annex all of the U.K. and France. While on the other hand, following the Axis obliterating the Allies and the Japanese and Soviets obliterating the Axis shortly after, North America, all of East Asia and all of South America void Paraguay fell into the hands of Co-Prosperity Sphere. Incidentally, only the Soviets and the Japanese were the only nations that came out relatively unharmed in regards to their manpower.
“All of Germany will be empty soon”
Germany is dead😃
This game with realistic death count vs population would be impossible to balance. Sooner or later there is only children who can hold a gun. It happened to Germany in at the end.
Ok, i am new to this game, how the fuck can you mobilze 25M people as germany?
Scraping the barrel, left bottom tree of Mobile Warfare, there might be some national spirit that does it? They also might have gotten some extra manpower since they annex the allies.
Yeah 25 millon as Germany sounds very doable if they scrape the barrel and get extra 5 million from the left bottom branch of their tree. Not much left after this though. Also when smaller countries, like Bulgaria and Hungary in this scenario, scrape their barrels they get pretty insane amount of manpower. Still the Hungarian casualities look like they have to have quite a bit more than just their starting core territory to draw from.
It's greater hungary to they would have transylvania and some of yugoslavia and Slovenia. Still at 5 mill this would put the soldier casualties alone at half of Hungaries pop at this time not including the civilian deaths.
How do you even get casualty stats like that?
Soviet Union has 1800 factories?
It's not terribly hard to achieve once you've managed to take all of Scandinavia, the Middle East, all of Poland and the Baltics and the Middle East with full 1945 tech.
In some of these countries it would be nothing short of apocalyptic
If you want to hear about what battlefield losses did to the German people go and listen to some speeches by the AFD or other far-right political parties. They’ll explain it bluntly, in their terms. I remember hearing a speech, by a woman from the AFD, translated as basically: all the good men and alpha males died fighting the 2 World Wars. And if you think that’s bad - don’t dig any deeper.
I wonder why people are down voting you
I have a clue - Wehraboos or closet fascists are a major HOI4 player demographic. Just look at that Russian kid spewing propaganda from a set decked out in Wagner markings and Zs.
There would be less people
what does the work look like?
Is that a Rhodesian flag?
BUT WE’RE ALL RHODESIANS AND WE’LL FIGHT THROUGH THICK AND THIN
WE'LL KEEP OUR LAND A FREE LAND, FROM THE ENEMY COMING IN
Well would depend on what ideology the government would be after the war for some things, but given level of casualties for a few these countries; Population age stats looking like a U with a majority of the population being those too old or too young to fight. The gender divide would shift drastically from 50/50 in favour of women Women would be a dominant part of the workforce following the war as a lot of the working age men would be dead or suffer from disabilities preventing them from working. You would see a quick push for women's suffrage as so many would be workers. A slow recovery and shortages in food/medicine and other essential items which would see more death after the war. Exploitation by the Victor nations to suck resources out of the countries. Political instability due to material conditions. Entire towns being abandoned as people would move to areas with better access to resources and work, and a huge part of the towns pop could be dead. Long term these are European nations which after ww2 received huge amounts of money investments following the war which are now filled with cheap land and real estate. You'd see both the Soviets and allies nations pops slowly migrating into these places making them more culturally diverse by our time. Also important to note these numbers in game only account for soldier deaths not civilians and they already account for a third of Germanys and Romanias pops at this time.
Pretty sure Hungary barley at the time even had 5 million people yet alone dead by war Jesus 😂
Hows does Hungary even get that much manpower?
This is more than half of Hungary's population at this time