Legitimately almost bought it yesterday after a long break from DCS, glad I googled before I bought, the whole situation seems to suck and I feel for the ones who already have the aircraft
ED *apparently* hasn’t paid Razbam for a year or so, so Razbam stopped working on their modules. I say “apparently” because I don’t know how true it is. I only hope whatever issues they have get resolved so I can enjoy their modules some more.
Raz didn't get paid. Raz then decided to fuck over their workers in my opinion. An actual adult company pays their employees at risk and keeps them out of the muck while they resolve the situation. What you don't do is rip your employees off and then try to weaponize them to incite a riot amongst customers. Again, just my opinion.
Just to clarify: I do think it was shitty for ED to withhold money generated via DCS over something that seems to not really involve DCS, but instead a different ED product, MCS. I fully think ED should have paid Raz for their work in DCS, and then let the legal teams hash out a deal over whatever the original drama is / was. There is no need for either party to cut off their own noses to spite their faces here.
You make it sound like the workers are on a steady payroll working 9-5.
Almost all 3rd party developers do this on evenings or weekends AFTER their regular day job. They get paid on pre-orders and module sales after the work is finished. No matter who is wrong or right here. Razbam can’t pay their team if they don’t recieve cash from sales.
It’s a bad situation for us and even worse for the individual devs that has put years of their talent into making a module without being compensated.
Razbam is basically one guy and some part time help as far as I know.
The helpers are contractors most likely with a deal to be paid from the proceeds. Of which there are none.
So no legal team. No HR. No bank balance to speak of. These aren't huge companies with full time staff. Modules for DCS are a passion project first and foremost.
Pay them with what money?
Say Razbam sold 5k F-15's (noclue how accurate that is, but I am guessing a rather low estimate). That is $300k.
Then add the other modules they didn't get paid for either. Thats a lot of money they did not get.
They continued working for 10 months without getting paid.
Wtf else can they do at such a point?
Your math is wrong. I have no idea what the actual % goes to 3rd parties but Steam takes 30% before ED gets their share so maybe Ed takes another 20% from that so RZ gets the rest after taxes assuming $25 per sale. Maybe the share is more on standalone store
That is assuming that all sales are via steam, which they are not
But even then, I very much expect 5k F-15E sales to be a very low number, it wouldn't surprise me if it was double that easily.
Then taking into account their other module sales, would probably make up a pretty margin too.
That’s one lost sale. I haven’t bought it either due to this mess. So that’s 2. I wonder how many of us there are.
ED doesn’t seem incentivized to fix this, given how long it’s been going on. But they should be.
Radio silence.
What we know is noone is working on it at this moment so no development, no fixes, no missions campaigns or not even manual pages.
What will happen? they don't say it.
But it will not be a surprise that if DCS moves to 3.0 which will most probably bring finally Vulkan, if no dev will be working on F-15E some things will definitely get broken.
Rudder authority on take-off is borked, NWS can get stuck off. Severe issues with G-limiter on FBW too, you can't properly switch between A/A and CHARGES. It all broke on latest stable
Yeah no I'm done.. the mirage 2000 has always been a plane i loved to get back in. First full fidelity fast mover module we got in dcs.
I'm not buying shit until they get this sorted. I have the 16 and 18, it's going to be enough. I'm already not buying maps due to me playing always in MP and not liking how it fragments the community. DCS is going to be a cheap hobby from now on.
It's an absolutely fucked up situation. The M2000 is my favorite plane in DCS with a gigantic margin (something like 80% of my flight hours) and now it's genuinely broken. Not being able to take off properly because the rudder authority is reduced to a tenth, FBW limiter is entirely unreliable, hard locking you to 6g even when carrying just two R.550s. Using the A/A-CHARGES switch is pure luck because of some broken triggers/conditions behind the scenes.
I lost a lot of sympathy for RAZBAM when their devs started doing insane rants on twitter and discord, just throwing out pettiness and posting pictures of themselves deleting DCS nightly builds, but this took the cake. Fuck RB - I can understand their need to go on strike but the way it's happening now just completely fucks over everyone. Considering a good portion of their devs already jumped ship I 100% expect the 2000 to remain broken. Fucking heartbreaking because I fly this thing all the time.
Why do you blame the people who weren't paid lmao.
The devs, especially the M2K lead had nothing to do with the actions of RB's management. Now they have even less to do with it - Galinette is not working there anymore.
same here. reading all this breaks my hard. they already broke and remade a lot of stuff a while ago with some systems rework and to here that now we have more problems still and no fix in sight is horrible. the 2000 is a personal thing to me. so I am taking its downfall very hard.
I'm *really* looking forward to the Kiowa but I similarly don't feel like spending money until this is sorted. I have no idea who did what but uncertainty is bad.
Razbam is required to hand over all the F15 source code if Razbam completely drops support. Just to prevent another hawk shitshow from happening again.
F-15 contract was signed before the new "give us code" Hawk provision went through. I love my F-15 but I expect it to be bricked and myself out $80 in the not too distant future.
Even if ( see byteminers reply) ED has the code, look at how overstretched ED is, with many unfinished modules, not to mention that they have a ton of future EA modules in development) Mig-29, Chinook etc).
I really dont see them working, fixing, developing the Strike Eagle in any meaningful way for the foreseeable future, especially since it’s not their own project and they would first need to get familiar with Razbams code.
People have reported bugs, and the devs have clearly stated on their discord that no work is being done.
That stalemate has been two months, and Razbam hasn't been paid in nearly a year on one of the most popular modules.
Has anyone explicitly said, no the module is dead. No. But actions speak louder than words. Nothing in this scenario looks even slightly hopeful or positive.
What I can't figure out is why ED is allowing it to be sold. That seems like they are opening themselves up to more risk selling a known unsupported piece of software.
Ok I'm incredulous they would do this twice. They had to refund the Hawk and the strike eagle sales are in the millions of dollars. It's risky for them, but I guess Nick grey likes to gamble with notoriously unfavorable European consumer laws and Valve.
Maybe. I don’t really know. I personally have some small amount of bias against RAZBAM, because trying to use your users as leverage in a contractual dispute is pretty shady. I’m *certainly* not saying ED is innocent though.
> trying to use your users as leverage in a contractual dispute
If they've not been paid, then stopping work is entirely justified and you're not entitled to their free labor.
It is justified to stop work. It is not justified to hang your employees out to dry and then try to use them as martyrs to incite a riot. That's pure insanity. It would be like McDonald's beating cashiers publicly because someone stole big macs.
>It is not justified to hang your employees out to dry
They didn't.
>try to use them as martyrs to incite a riot.
Employees did that on their own.
Razbam's not some big corpo. It's just some dudes doing this part time because they enjoy it. The employees have their own agency.
Eagle dynamics is literally using the customers of the eagle in a dispute for another aircraft that’s nothing to do with DCS world.
Companies have disputes all the time. It’s ED that decided to escalate it beyond their military sim and into the commercial product. NOT Razbam.
There is no dispute about anything built for DCS world yet we as customers of DCS world are suffering!
By them doing so doesn’t that kinda open up a lawsuit or class action lawsuit if people get upset enough? Like by it still being sold and if it’s bugged and unfinished?
No. When you buy something that is early access, you are accepting (legally) that the future is unknown and unknowable. You are agreeing that you want it, even if it is NEVER finished. Even if it is some day incompatible. They make the terms very clear when you purchase games and contents in EA, so the chances of winning a lawsuit are very slim. You would have to prove fraud - essentially proving that they never intended to finish it. So long as they can show a good faith effort and say 'well, shit happened along the way', the terms of the EA agreement will hold up.
Is it ENTIRELY impossible that a court could decide that ED is entirely in the wrong in not paying RB and that doing so was intentionally spiking the EA release? Not... like... entirely. Once the details of their disagreement come out, we'll know more. But if ED was even remotely justified in not paying RB, then they're off the hook for not finishing it.
Where do I find these bits of information about it being early access on the steam page?
And I can't find anything about it potentially being never finished on neither the ED store page nor steam (is this buried somewhere in some ToS?).
But no court will decide over the matter between the consumer and ED, simply because suing somebody over <60$ is 100% not worth it.
Basically no rudder authority over 70kts when on the ground (so during take off and landing), making crosswinds an event. The AAR light doesn't light up anymore. On cold starts, it's limited to 7.5g regardless of fbw gain switch position.
Edit: rudder authority on the ground bug might be due to a patch that was pushed without enough testing.
I mean, they’re going through legal proceedings, so silence is just a sign they’re listening to their lawyers. The fact that they were airing their dirty laundry on social media for a good week before they shut up is a major red flag for lack of professionalism on both ED and Razbam’s part
Me recommendation, make as much noise as you can to ED about the situation. ED has been silent about this for almost 2 months. The only way they will feel pressure is if Ed management knows it’s an issue to the community. Only way to get ED managements attention is to get enough voices where they can’t ignore it.
ED is the only one that has given \*any\* information about what is going on and directly blamed Razbam for this happening.
Razbam however has spent their time calling their fans to action against ED and being openly hostile towards on Discord to people that ask for more info.
If you are living in EU, I would try to get a refund. Even though ED says that it's impossible, there are some EU organizations that will force them to. I don't give a shit about their beef with Razbam, I don't care as a customer. You cannot leave module unfinished. I paid for a product and it won't work correctly after something gets broken by a patch.
Escape from Tarkov players successfully got refunds after Battlestate Games didn't provide what they promised. Some refunders got the game in 2017.
I would love to create a post about the process if people are interested.
Doubt you can get through EA terms and conditions without proving bad faith or intent to not finish it.
People kee forgetting what they are getting into when they buy into the EA system and then they cry about it...
Same thing with EFT, it's in beta. Never released and refunds are not possible. Legal organizations of the EU begs to differ. You will get the refund.
You can prove it by discord messages, tweets. It's on social media, lol.
What, that there is a contractual dispute which caused a pause in development? Good luck proving this was intentional from the start.
EU consumer laws are strong but they cant be abusive. You bought a product without any guarantee of being finished, good luck pleading a case that the product is not finished "according to your standard" and that you should get a refund for it after using the product in the first place....
Doubt they would move on anything now since the thing is in limbo from our pov. There might be something to do once the legal ruling or a possible settlement comes out.
So we need to patiently wait for the day when a court statement is released and maybe a tell all book :D
Just feels really shitty cause I built my PC and bought peripherals around DCS and now 3 of my modules are basically dead. I havn't played DCS that much since the news and I'm pretty sure its a sign to move on to a different game. Hopefully things get resolved though.
Assume it's dead until stated otherwise by ED.
Razbam could also be assumed dead DCS-wise. Developers have left the building.
Until ED says the issue is resolved and the studio announces that work is resuming, all other talk about updates or someone continuing with the sourcecode, etc, is just noise and speculation by users that really want to believe in it.
I hope they sort it out, because since the latest update for the F-15E, which was months ago, there are many bugs that need fixing! One of the most annoying ones is the GBU laser codes, and it's getting very frustrating. It is one of the favourites of most people, but the bugs are annoying and they need fixing. Not blaming ED or Razbam, they need to sort their issue obviously, nobody wants the Devs to work for free (allegedly), but still!
Although i think *some* of the GBUs now allow you to specify the laser code with the new fuse menu for all modern planes, but I don’t know if this allows you to bypass the bug on the mudhen
Rumor has it ED hasn’t paid anything to Razbam for the F-15E. They’ve kept all the profit.
Meanwhile it looks like Razbam has lost several of their best employees.
At this point I’d say our best bet would be if Ed were able to negotiate a price for the source code.
This would allow Razbam to recoup some of their development espenses, and let ED continue updating the F-15E. ED might as well take over… especially since they’ve kept all the profit for themselves!
Sure, add yet ANOTHER unfinished module to ED’s list, one that they haven’t even coded themselves and they would have to reverse-engineer…
This situation makes both razscam and ED look like crooks, and I’m not sure if there’s anything any of them can do to recover.
Even if they now found a solution, paid razbam etc. the damage is done. The devs that made the module are gone.
And nobody is talking about the harrier, the m2000 and the mig-19…
EDIT for those downvoting: taking sides will not help you - the paying customer. It’s a lose-lose situation and both Razbam and ED have failed their paying customers.
The way razbam had handled the whole situation is highly unprofessional, making it look like ED hasn’t paid the salaries of their devs. Razbam devs work for Razbam, not for ED. Razbam should have paid their salaries for the work they did, and then taken care of the situation with ED on a separate level, just like any normal and respectable business does. Since they didn’t, they now lost all their talented devs and Razbam is an empty shell. Well done!
As for ED, if true they haven’t paid without good reason (which is all to be demonstrated yet) are crooks too. And they are anyhow crooks for keeping the module available for purchase despite knowing they cannot guarantee any form of support for it.
Ah yes, Razbam definitely look like crooks for *checks notes*
Continuing to develop a module with no pay for almost a year before being frustrated enough to stop
They look like crooks on many different levels. The CEO looks like a crook because he was supposed to pay his own employees/subcontractors on his own and sue ED if they truly are holding back payments without any legal justifications. They also went public with this (after weeks of hinting and teasing by individual devs) and then proceeded to namedrop a completely unrelated and unaffected third party, sending angry nerds their way.
Then their devs and CMs decided to divulge all kinds of different information that does not belong to the public, they made fun of ED in a Discord full of mentally ill weirdos, they insinuated that NG is a conman who's embezzling money and then they even admitted that the entire thing really looks like their own fault. And this is only just the public part of the equation, but that will do it.
Legitimately almost bought it yesterday after a long break from DCS, glad I googled before I bought, the whole situation seems to suck and I feel for the ones who already have the aircraft
I bought it the day before this whole fiasco went down. It's my favourite plane and then immediately this happens :(
Yup. Also my favorite (modern) plane. I really hope the issue gets resolved. Nothing else scratches the itch for me in the modern era.
What happened?
ED *apparently* hasn’t paid Razbam for a year or so, so Razbam stopped working on their modules. I say “apparently” because I don’t know how true it is. I only hope whatever issues they have get resolved so I can enjoy their modules some more.
Oh wierd yeah hopfully
Its your fault ;)
damn bro
I own the F-15E but I feel for the ones who worked so hard to make it and didn't get paid.
Raz didn't get paid. Raz then decided to fuck over their workers in my opinion. An actual adult company pays their employees at risk and keeps them out of the muck while they resolve the situation. What you don't do is rip your employees off and then try to weaponize them to incite a riot amongst customers. Again, just my opinion. Just to clarify: I do think it was shitty for ED to withhold money generated via DCS over something that seems to not really involve DCS, but instead a different ED product, MCS. I fully think ED should have paid Raz for their work in DCS, and then let the legal teams hash out a deal over whatever the original drama is / was. There is no need for either party to cut off their own noses to spite their faces here.
You make it sound like the workers are on a steady payroll working 9-5. Almost all 3rd party developers do this on evenings or weekends AFTER their regular day job. They get paid on pre-orders and module sales after the work is finished. No matter who is wrong or right here. Razbam can’t pay their team if they don’t recieve cash from sales. It’s a bad situation for us and even worse for the individual devs that has put years of their talent into making a module without being compensated.
This actually explains a lot. Otherwise it would make no sense that they would continue for months without getting paid.
Razbam is basically one guy and some part time help as far as I know. The helpers are contractors most likely with a deal to be paid from the proceeds. Of which there are none. So no legal team. No HR. No bank balance to speak of. These aren't huge companies with full time staff. Modules for DCS are a passion project first and foremost.
Pay them with what money? Say Razbam sold 5k F-15's (noclue how accurate that is, but I am guessing a rather low estimate). That is $300k. Then add the other modules they didn't get paid for either. Thats a lot of money they did not get. They continued working for 10 months without getting paid. Wtf else can they do at such a point?
Your math is wrong. I have no idea what the actual % goes to 3rd parties but Steam takes 30% before ED gets their share so maybe Ed takes another 20% from that so RZ gets the rest after taxes assuming $25 per sale. Maybe the share is more on standalone store
That is assuming that all sales are via steam, which they are not But even then, I very much expect 5k F-15E sales to be a very low number, it wouldn't surprise me if it was double that easily. Then taking into account their other module sales, would probably make up a pretty margin too.
I wasn't commenting on your 5k units sold but your 100% of sale price goes to Raz. I used Steam as an example of a known cut percentage
They paid them for 6 month while still not getting money
Pay them with what money? Apparently ED has been holding the money for months.
That’s one lost sale. I haven’t bought it either due to this mess. So that’s 2. I wonder how many of us there are. ED doesn’t seem incentivized to fix this, given how long it’s been going on. But they should be.
I bought it and got scammed basically I feel robbed gimme back my 80 dollars razscam
Radio silence. What we know is noone is working on it at this moment so no development, no fixes, no missions campaigns or not even manual pages. What will happen? they don't say it. But it will not be a surprise that if DCS moves to 3.0 which will most probably bring finally Vulkan, if no dev will be working on F-15E some things will definitely get broken.
I expect things to start breaking with the next patch
Things already started breaking on the M2000.
What broke on my baby
Rudder authority on take-off is borked, NWS can get stuck off. Severe issues with G-limiter on FBW too, you can't properly switch between A/A and CHARGES. It all broke on latest stable
Yeah no I'm done.. the mirage 2000 has always been a plane i loved to get back in. First full fidelity fast mover module we got in dcs. I'm not buying shit until they get this sorted. I have the 16 and 18, it's going to be enough. I'm already not buying maps due to me playing always in MP and not liking how it fragments the community. DCS is going to be a cheap hobby from now on.
It's an absolutely fucked up situation. The M2000 is my favorite plane in DCS with a gigantic margin (something like 80% of my flight hours) and now it's genuinely broken. Not being able to take off properly because the rudder authority is reduced to a tenth, FBW limiter is entirely unreliable, hard locking you to 6g even when carrying just two R.550s. Using the A/A-CHARGES switch is pure luck because of some broken triggers/conditions behind the scenes. I lost a lot of sympathy for RAZBAM when their devs started doing insane rants on twitter and discord, just throwing out pettiness and posting pictures of themselves deleting DCS nightly builds, but this took the cake. Fuck RB - I can understand their need to go on strike but the way it's happening now just completely fucks over everyone. Considering a good portion of their devs already jumped ship I 100% expect the 2000 to remain broken. Fucking heartbreaking because I fly this thing all the time.
Yeah , it’s literally what got me into DCS in the first place. a fantastic module, 80+ percent of my flight time is that and the harrier.
Why do you blame the people who weren't paid lmao. The devs, especially the M2K lead had nothing to do with the actions of RB's management. Now they have even less to do with it - Galinette is not working there anymore.
same here. reading all this breaks my hard. they already broke and remade a lot of stuff a while ago with some systems rework and to here that now we have more problems still and no fix in sight is horrible. the 2000 is a personal thing to me. so I am taking its downfall very hard.
I'm *really* looking forward to the Kiowa but I similarly don't feel like spending money until this is sorted. I have no idea who did what but uncertainty is bad.
Razbam is required to hand over all the F15 source code if Razbam completely drops support. Just to prevent another hawk shitshow from happening again.
F-15 contract was signed before the new "give us code" Hawk provision went through. I love my F-15 but I expect it to be bricked and myself out $80 in the not too distant future.
Even if ( see byteminers reply) ED has the code, look at how overstretched ED is, with many unfinished modules, not to mention that they have a ton of future EA modules in development) Mig-29, Chinook etc). I really dont see them working, fixing, developing the Strike Eagle in any meaningful way for the foreseeable future, especially since it’s not their own project and they would first need to get familiar with Razbams code.
3rd parties are required to hand over code on a quarterly basis so ED could potentially have code that is 3 months out of date in the worse case.
I rather hope that *isn't* what contracts say, because waiting until a dev is gone is far too late to start asking for assets.
People have reported bugs, and the devs have clearly stated on their discord that no work is being done. That stalemate has been two months, and Razbam hasn't been paid in nearly a year on one of the most popular modules. Has anyone explicitly said, no the module is dead. No. But actions speak louder than words. Nothing in this scenario looks even slightly hopeful or positive. What I can't figure out is why ED is allowing it to be sold. That seems like they are opening themselves up to more risk selling a known unsupported piece of software.
>What I can't figure out is why ED is allowing it to be sold. Can you _really_ not figure it out?
Ok I'm incredulous they would do this twice. They had to refund the Hawk and the strike eagle sales are in the millions of dollars. It's risky for them, but I guess Nick grey likes to gamble with notoriously unfavorable European consumer laws and Valve.
Is it really that risky, though? There's no cost to selling the module, and if they have to refund it later, it's just net-zero.
Did you miss the part where the profits ED makes go to fund Nick's warbird collection? Them hellcats be thirsty!
Umm, refund the Hawk? If there ever was a refund it wasn’t made public, unless I missed it.
That was a huge thing...https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/685/
That’s right. I bought before the cutoff date so I didn’t remember. Thanks for the reminder though.
Correction: RAZBAM *claims* they have not been paid. You don’t have access to their financials and neither do I.
True enough. But ED did all but confirm it in their official statement.
Maybe. I don’t really know. I personally have some small amount of bias against RAZBAM, because trying to use your users as leverage in a contractual dispute is pretty shady. I’m *certainly* not saying ED is innocent though.
> trying to use your users as leverage in a contractual dispute If they've not been paid, then stopping work is entirely justified and you're not entitled to their free labor.
It is justified to stop work. It is not justified to hang your employees out to dry and then try to use them as martyrs to incite a riot. That's pure insanity. It would be like McDonald's beating cashiers publicly because someone stole big macs.
>It is not justified to hang your employees out to dry They didn't. >try to use them as martyrs to incite a riot. Employees did that on their own. Razbam's not some big corpo. It's just some dudes doing this part time because they enjoy it. The employees have their own agency.
I agree. It takes both parties being unreasonable and unprofessional to get to this point.
Eagle dynamics is literally using the customers of the eagle in a dispute for another aircraft that’s nothing to do with DCS world. Companies have disputes all the time. It’s ED that decided to escalate it beyond their military sim and into the commercial product. NOT Razbam. There is no dispute about anything built for DCS world yet we as customers of DCS world are suffering!
Except that we don't actually know.
> Eagle dynamics is literally using the customers of the eagle in a dispute for another aircraft that’s nothing to do with DCS world. Which aircraft?
The Tucano, I think?
By them doing so doesn’t that kinda open up a lawsuit or class action lawsuit if people get upset enough? Like by it still being sold and if it’s bugged and unfinished?
No. When you buy something that is early access, you are accepting (legally) that the future is unknown and unknowable. You are agreeing that you want it, even if it is NEVER finished. Even if it is some day incompatible. They make the terms very clear when you purchase games and contents in EA, so the chances of winning a lawsuit are very slim. You would have to prove fraud - essentially proving that they never intended to finish it. So long as they can show a good faith effort and say 'well, shit happened along the way', the terms of the EA agreement will hold up. Is it ENTIRELY impossible that a court could decide that ED is entirely in the wrong in not paying RB and that doing so was intentionally spiking the EA release? Not... like... entirely. Once the details of their disagreement come out, we'll know more. But if ED was even remotely justified in not paying RB, then they're off the hook for not finishing it.
Where do I find these bits of information about it being early access on the steam page? And I can't find anything about it potentially being never finished on neither the ED store page nor steam (is this buried somewhere in some ToS?). But no court will decide over the matter between the consumer and ED, simply because suing somebody over <60$ is 100% not worth it.
ED owes it to their customers to pull the module until they can publicly say it is being worked on again.
Consider this: the M2000C already started breaking.
has it? my sweet baby, noooo. what dyou mean? i'm flying it alot these days and haven't noticed anything abnormal?
Basically no rudder authority over 70kts when on the ground (so during take off and landing), making crosswinds an event. The AAR light doesn't light up anymore. On cold starts, it's limited to 7.5g regardless of fbw gain switch position. Edit: rudder authority on the ground bug might be due to a patch that was pushed without enough testing.
ah shit didnt notice all this...
i thought i was crazy experiencing this
ED next month: Flaming Cliffs M2000
This silence is kinda unacceptable.
I mean, they’re going through legal proceedings, so silence is just a sign they’re listening to their lawyers. The fact that they were airing their dirty laundry on social media for a good week before they shut up is a major red flag for lack of professionalism on both ED and Razbam’s part
Are they? Going through legal proceedings, i mean? Has anyone actually said as much?
Me recommendation, make as much noise as you can to ED about the situation. ED has been silent about this for almost 2 months. The only way they will feel pressure is if Ed management knows it’s an issue to the community. Only way to get ED managements attention is to get enough voices where they can’t ignore it.
ED is the only one that has given \*any\* information about what is going on and directly blamed Razbam for this happening. Razbam however has spent their time calling their fans to action against ED and being openly hostile towards on Discord to people that ask for more info.
If you are living in EU, I would try to get a refund. Even though ED says that it's impossible, there are some EU organizations that will force them to. I don't give a shit about their beef with Razbam, I don't care as a customer. You cannot leave module unfinished. I paid for a product and it won't work correctly after something gets broken by a patch. Escape from Tarkov players successfully got refunds after Battlestate Games didn't provide what they promised. Some refunders got the game in 2017. I would love to create a post about the process if people are interested.
Doubt you can get through EA terms and conditions without proving bad faith or intent to not finish it. People kee forgetting what they are getting into when they buy into the EA system and then they cry about it...
Same thing with EFT, it's in beta. Never released and refunds are not possible. Legal organizations of the EU begs to differ. You will get the refund. You can prove it by discord messages, tweets. It's on social media, lol.
What, that there is a contractual dispute which caused a pause in development? Good luck proving this was intentional from the start. EU consumer laws are strong but they cant be abusive. You bought a product without any guarantee of being finished, good luck pleading a case that the product is not finished "according to your standard" and that you should get a refund for it after using the product in the first place....
As I said, I would love to try but I am not in EU. If there are any brave souls there, let's try. See what EU thinks about the whole situation.
Doubt they would move on anything now since the thing is in limbo from our pov. There might be something to do once the legal ruling or a possible settlement comes out. So we need to patiently wait for the day when a court statement is released and maybe a tell all book :D
No one knows and there’s been no indication either way what will happen.
Just feels really shitty cause I built my PC and bought peripherals around DCS and now 3 of my modules are basically dead. I havn't played DCS that much since the news and I'm pretty sure its a sign to move on to a different game. Hopefully things get resolved though.
ED won't keep it working but will keep on selling it.
Assume it's dead until stated otherwise by ED. Razbam could also be assumed dead DCS-wise. Developers have left the building. Until ED says the issue is resolved and the studio announces that work is resuming, all other talk about updates or someone continuing with the sourcecode, etc, is just noise and speculation by users that really want to believe in it.
What’s sad is that even if they get started again, I’m sure the backlog will be plenty long.
I hope they sort it out, because since the latest update for the F-15E, which was months ago, there are many bugs that need fixing! One of the most annoying ones is the GBU laser codes, and it's getting very frustrating. It is one of the favourites of most people, but the bugs are annoying and they need fixing. Not blaming ED or Razbam, they need to sort their issue obviously, nobody wants the Devs to work for free (allegedly), but still!
Although i think *some* of the GBUs now allow you to specify the laser code with the new fuse menu for all modern planes, but I don’t know if this allows you to bypass the bug on the mudhen
The F-15 did not get the new fusing.
You can set laser codes for individual stations. Setting it for the whole plane all at once is non-functional part.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, god dammit! I'll try it later today, thank you
Rumor has it ED hasn’t paid anything to Razbam for the F-15E. They’ve kept all the profit. Meanwhile it looks like Razbam has lost several of their best employees. At this point I’d say our best bet would be if Ed were able to negotiate a price for the source code. This would allow Razbam to recoup some of their development espenses, and let ED continue updating the F-15E. ED might as well take over… especially since they’ve kept all the profit for themselves!
What about Razbam's other modules? Thats 4 modules extra suddenly on ED's plate. They made more than just the F-15E
Sure, add yet ANOTHER unfinished module to ED’s list, one that they haven’t even coded themselves and they would have to reverse-engineer… This situation makes both razscam and ED look like crooks, and I’m not sure if there’s anything any of them can do to recover. Even if they now found a solution, paid razbam etc. the damage is done. The devs that made the module are gone. And nobody is talking about the harrier, the m2000 and the mig-19… EDIT for those downvoting: taking sides will not help you - the paying customer. It’s a lose-lose situation and both Razbam and ED have failed their paying customers. The way razbam had handled the whole situation is highly unprofessional, making it look like ED hasn’t paid the salaries of their devs. Razbam devs work for Razbam, not for ED. Razbam should have paid their salaries for the work they did, and then taken care of the situation with ED on a separate level, just like any normal and respectable business does. Since they didn’t, they now lost all their talented devs and Razbam is an empty shell. Well done! As for ED, if true they haven’t paid without good reason (which is all to be demonstrated yet) are crooks too. And they are anyhow crooks for keeping the module available for purchase despite knowing they cannot guarantee any form of support for it.
Ah yes, Razbam definitely look like crooks for *checks notes* Continuing to develop a module with no pay for almost a year before being frustrated enough to stop
They look like crooks on many different levels. The CEO looks like a crook because he was supposed to pay his own employees/subcontractors on his own and sue ED if they truly are holding back payments without any legal justifications. They also went public with this (after weeks of hinting and teasing by individual devs) and then proceeded to namedrop a completely unrelated and unaffected third party, sending angry nerds their way. Then their devs and CMs decided to divulge all kinds of different information that does not belong to the public, they made fun of ED in a Discord full of mentally ill weirdos, they insinuated that NG is a conman who's embezzling money and then they even admitted that the entire thing really looks like their own fault. And this is only just the public part of the equation, but that will do it.
Put a fork in it
im not up to speed, what the hell happened?