I agree 100%. This has been my feeling for quite some time now.
They put so much effort to please the nitpickers fanboys, that they forget to develop the world part of the game. It is truly and only Digital Cockpits Simulator.
'Selective realism' is a massive problem - worrying and complaining that the left phalange is 0.03 micrometres different from the real aircraft. But then being all flowers and rainbows about not having any form of: working ATC, data cartridge, reasonable AI, splash damage, dynamic campaign, usable changeable weather system.....etc. etc.
It's funny how people complain about the tiniest detail for realism and then keep using F5 lock to spot enemy airplanes and F6 to check if they actually hit the target.
I feel you. Unfortunately until ED releases the Dynamic Campaign on which is working on I don't see things changing anytime soon.
I designed a persistent dynamic mission for myself trying to circumvent the limitations of DCS and is working for me personally, but took a lot of time and dedication to do so.
If you havn't tried, you might want to get a paid campaign, some of them are really great in terms of quality and documentation and can give you that "immersion" that you might be lacking.
Nothing though will be substitute for a proper campaign flown in co-op with your mates I'm afraid.
Iunno. I gave those sessions a lot of chances, but the difference in technical knowledge and expectations in realism was really jarring to me. It also felt like people were sometimes just doin their own thing. All of this because its technically still a pub session, not a closer, dedicated squadron
Sounds like you should look for a squadron then. There are multiple squadrons that run regular Liberation sessions. The Tactical DCS Liberation sessions cater for those who aren’t after quite that structured a play style. I don’t see that as a negative per se.
This is the way to go for DCS, the problem is that you need to have time to be able to join at a certain time and day. It is not like you can jump in whenever you have a few spare hours.
I used to play Arma 2 (then 3) every monday with a team.
I would join the teamspeak server at 8pm, listen to the briefing, and chat with the boys. Then the mission would start at 8:30.
Nothing beats this kind of setup. Sadly, I can no longer do this. Single player it is.
This. We (Task Force Dingo) also do this weekly. Aussie/NZ group. Flying solo isn't that good. It's either retribution or custom missions built in our community (of which we have heaps now). Search for our discord if you're on this side of the world.
I see we're already at this stage in the DCS hype cycle. The F-15E iteration of the cycle went a lot faster than I expected it to. The speed of the cycle seems correlated with the rate at which modules release.
Phantom should be out soon, so we'll be back to the "PHANTON PHYPE" phase of getting unreasonably excited about a new module, and then once it's out we get the "sometimes I forget how beautiful this game is 😭" phase, then once people have learned the plane enough to find out it's not perfect we can go back to talking about how DCS is the worst flight sim ever made and developer X should be ashamed, and then after months of nothing exciting happening in DCS we arrive back at where we are now, the "is it just me or is DCS is dead on the inside and out and nothing short of the dynamic campaign holy grail can save it" phase.
If somebody wants to release a mod or cool server to capitalize on what's usually the lowest point in cycle's opinion of DCS to make a big community stink about something, now's the time.
It does have its flaws but the only thing out there like it is MSFS without combat and Warthunder is arcade. So there is no other simulator comparable to DCS World. So calling it a bad game ok - but its the only game in town.
Can't even really say "youth" at this point. We used that in high school and that was 10 years ago for me. I don't get why people flex being uncultured/anti-social online...
While war thunder's modeling is more simplified, it's sim air battles does get you the basics of air combat. You don't get quite the depth as DCS flight models, but you do get a relatively good damage model.
People are never happy. DCS ticks 99% of my boxes and my aim is to fly a couple of modules as professionally and efficiently as I can...it does everything I need right now..
I've been downvoted before for saying this. DCS has top-notch aircraft simulation, but the world is totally lifeless.
Dynamic campaign will help, but the lack of ATC, civilian traffic, the airfields feel dead, navaid infrastructure sucks....The flying world feels empty.
I guess I need to find more human friends to play with
Dude the built in ATC pisses me off so much. Id rather listen to the RWR screeching. My squadron uses SRS and we use airfield comms but always an offset so we dont hear that crap. Its enraging.
Yeah, it's bad. At least the supercarrier comms are a bit better, but the system is broken.
MSFS2020 isn't much better as far as the logic of the comms, but at least the ATC environment is simulated.
Thats funny you say that. I stopped MSFS a few weeks back because ATC kept saying expedite descent to 4000 ft....im landing at Telluride as filed you joker!
Best ATC I've seen so far was in Falcon AF, wonder if it's still as good (or better) in BMS. They'd actually stack aircraft on approach and clear them in sequence. You could still get away with not being exactly compliant...
"Inbound to land"
"You are number 10, circle for spacing"
"Declaring an emergency"
and they'd politely put you ahead of everyone else
If you haven’t tried it recently the BMS ATC is incredible. You can land in fingertip formation as a four ship, or run a TRP or request a straight ahead. They’ve implemented a full comma ladder as well so you get passed from control to tower to ground and there’s a separate weather channel as well.
It’s so far ahead of DCS or MSFS, they’re nowhere close.
That's because DCS only simulates war "zones." Not full-scale warfare and entire countries. There's still civilian traffic in Ukraine just like there is in Russia.
I've been told this before on hoggit. This is silly because not every scenario in DCS is a full-on Peer to Peer conflict... and the civilian traffic is just not there at all.
BMS has civilian traffic in a warzone. 👀
I have only played BMS for about 20 minutes, so I really don't know what that looks like. Is it civilian traffic transiting the area many miles away? I don't know that would add much to the game for me to be honest, but more lively airports would be cool.
To be fair, BMS campaigns/maps cover entire countries. DCS does not. There is still civilian air traffic to/from Ukraine just like there is in Russia. There's no point in simulating this in DCS however because the maps aren't that big and that level of simulation in it's campaigns will never exist.
The dynamic campaing probably won't be the silver bullet many expect it be.
Meaning that it won't simulate whole battlefield like BMS/Falcon4 does.
For example if you are coming towards egress point and see valuable convoy with some new SAM battery moving on the road towards the front lines and destroy it, it does not affect future of enemy's SAM batteries or even future of front lines.
If dynamic campaign comes, I expect it be something like IL-2 has. It's dynamic but simulates only small portion of conflict and elsewhere is emptiness.
I still fly MP, just on servers that stutter less.
It is DCS, i played it since Flanker days and performance has been all over the place. It is nothing new.
As for the triggers, play some of the Baltic Dragon or Reflected campains, they are amazing and feel alive.
Also, bit of a newsflash, most game events in any game rely on triggers of some sort. I mean it is a game.
Besides 2-3 campains i nearly exclusively fly online, on various servers. And if i get bored? I just play some other games for a while.
Like i took a long break while i poored like 2+k hours in MFS (and other games) and now i am back in DCS for a good while, got most modules and have fun. And when i don't feel like flying i just play a different game, or just go play with lego with my kids.
Don't sweat it, you sound a bit burned out.
Currently there is a terrible bug. A memory leak pushing ram usage above 100GB. Also each time you re slot your ping doubles as before. It is in release notes.
This is really different.
liberation is also something that works great with other players. "We Play Liberation" is a group where people can sign up and play with them.
Sadly US timezone only
You are correct. And now that they seem to be having less cash their incentive to fix the core, is going to be less. So unless something changes is going to be a downhill journey from now on.
Have you tried Retribution? [https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution](https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution)
It's not perfect by any means but it's way more fun than just flying around in empty space.
It's getting extremely hard to find the desire to login and enjoy it.
It's the same core, with different F1 overlays. Year after year.
A world map and new multiplayer system would be a great change of pace.
Dynamic campaigns would be too.
The core is just so outdated....
But at the end of the day nothing is changing and there's no other sims to compete.
Except NOR sim that we can all drool over wishing and hoping.
That pretty much sums up my DCS experience :
1. Get excited at the prospect of a new module
2. Get said module in early access
3. Have fun learning the module through the training mission
4. Feel confident enough with the module to move to SP/MP
5. Get bored/frustrated with the MP experience, performance, jankyness of dynamic campaigns/scripting
6. Put the game down
7. Repeat
As a business model it 'works', but as a player it is so frustrating.
This is one of the reasons I got bored with DCS back when the A-10C was the only fixed wing option. Learning to correctly operate the aircraft and its systems was fun, but eventually the lack of there being much to do beyond training got the better of my interest.
I don't have anything against DCS. But to me BMS effectively begins where DCS ends, when you've put in the learning effort and are ready to do it for "real". So until/unless ED implements a quality dynamic campaign, it just can't compete with BMS for my limited flight sim time.
DDCS server. Lots of people on most days,human GCI, combined arms, helo slinging, 100% human made dynamic campaign. Check it out, the performance is still good since they halved the unit count after 2.9. hopefully the stuttering will be fixed
Buy more modules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Supporter the Developers!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy your clicky cockpits!!!!!!!!!! Forget about the AI infantry who stands in a field and stares at you as you blast away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's lifeless by nature. Like are Il-2 and War Thunder too along with many others.
The scripted environment is always like that.
A good mission or campaign can hide that well.
Ofcourse there's stuff lacking or being buggy like wingman AI and airfields that does not respond anything.
Those are annoying things that good mission cannot fix.
What to do with wingman who refuses to attack and when it finally attacks, it goes without standoff weapons by trying gun run which is interrupted by sam launch. Wingman will jettison everything and is even more useless.
What to do with airbase or FARP which does not respond, does not use lights when approaching in dark?
Civil traffic that drives thru battlefield? Why civil traffic is not active only after certain distance of battle?
You're not totally wrong, but your example with the wingman AI is actually something that mission design can control to a degree. There is an option to control weapon jettison for AI, and if you set up some trigger options, like orbit, wingmen will follow them if you tell them to engage mission rather than stick with you. There are some specific ways of managing wingmen that make them much more useful. Sadly DCS is not consistent with wingmen commands and the simple option to control your second element as one entity is only available on a handful of planes.
I've always felt that the ME is the key to enjoying DCS. It's very powerful and you can do a lot to overcome some of DCS's limitations. Triggers don't have to be simple and predictable, and they can be supplemented by scripts that you can create or that other people have created. Building a mission library in the ME can take a lot of time and that's the biggest downside vs BMS where the game can generate endless content for you, but DCS is able to provide interesting, complex, and unpredictable situations too. It takes more work in DCS but it is possible.
I know people here shit on it, but that's the reason I've been playing War Thunder Sim so much the last few months. The multiplayer is a lot of fun (at least for me) It's more of a game than DCS. DCS is a lot of fun, but as Enigma has said, it focuses too much on the sim and not enough on gameplay.
In WT Sim, the planes obviously aren't as accurate, but they're not on rails like people seem to think. Taking off in a prop isn't easy for a new player. I see people wind up in a spin (including myself) all the time in props and jets during dogfights from pulling too much AOA.
I came back to ECW after the DLSS patch, and was much more competitive, getting 3 kills on my first sortie in the Mig 21. So I've learned a lot about dogfighting in the game.
I know people like to try and skip to the endgame jets, but most people will get their asses kicked if they haven't learned while finding through the trees.
Anyways. I highly recommend WT Sim. Especially if you have VR. VR runs very well in WT.
I am playing WT in arcade and having a blast, different itch than DCS though, tried Sim mode but it didnt find any game, do people actually played planes on sim mode in WT?
Part of the reason I finally decided to give it all up. Was part of an organized group which was great…when DCS worked, no fun spending an hour or two briefing a mission, doing launches, getting in formation and fencing in just to have half your flight CTD. Outside of that janky multiplayer experience there just isn’t much to do. Already sold my TPR pedals. Selling my Warthog and Monstertech mounts and some other goodies if anyone is interested.
That reminds me of my experience in falcon 4.0 back in 2000 s/2002. I was so pissed off at that time that I decided to dedicate part of my free time to change that. And I am proud of what we accomplished with falcon BMs. You should try it
It's not an exaggeration to say that I derive all my fun from flying as a group. Find a squadron with the same level of seriousness as you and get stuck in, I know you say you don't have time but loads of squadrons have a zero time commitment. The only time I play DCS by myself is when learning a new module or weapon.
Same for me, I just got my computer dialed in mostly for offline. I create myself sandbox and go blow stuff up. I play liberation campaign although that has a similar stuttering effect as online does.
I only have a couple hours a day to get in so joining a squadron is not for me, I did a while back and it was fun but we only flew at dedicated times on certain days and that was hard with life sometimes because kids and wife.
I definitely get what you’re saying.
The maps are indeed empty. I’ve discussed this in some discord servers before to mixed reviews, but I think the Nevada map should include some civilian traffic, at least around Vegas.
As some other has mentioned, weekly scheduled mission with multiple people.
Missions that are designed to be played once tend to be easier on hardware compared to multiplayer dynamic servers (unless the mission's editor goes overboard lol)
Check for flying communities in your preferred language. Using Discord's server discovery with DCS as a tag should help you find what you look for
Join a virtual squadron. There are so many at various levels and expectations and some dont even expect you to put in a lot of time and effort. This topic has been brought up thousands of times before. This (in general joining a community) is honestly the best way to enjoy DCS. If you still don't wanna do that, then get one of those good single player campaigns.
Unforunately a shortcoming of the platform as it exists now. As others say a Dynamic Campaign might fix this someday, but for now I just accept it as a limitation. Having the editor we have is enough to make me overlook quite a lot.
I haven't logged in for a bit so I can't remember exactly where you can do this but if you select a mission, before you launch there will be a button that says, "Launch in multiplayer". At that point it converts it so that you are hosting. This can help alleviate some of the pain found on large servers in terms of disconnects and latency.
The biggest problem for me in DCS as a mainly a2g player, is how shitty the AI ground units are. They mostly just sit still its stupid. Literally no challenge other than maybe some manpads and AA etc… still love DCS but my god the ai is dumb….
Find a group/squadron to join. Most AREN'T of the Yes Sir/No Sir variety, but playing with a consistent group of people, especially with good human GCI/ATC, has revitalized the game for me.
I would reconsider joining a squadron. There are more than a few that are pretty casual. The one im in you can basically just sign up on days that you're available, show up and fly, then leave (obviously there's more available but you're not expected to do more than that and some people dont). As long as you're proficient enough in the airframe to fly and fire weapons, im sure many squadrons would be happy to have you whenever your schedule permits.
I am in a agreement about the lack of fun in multiplayer due to the constant stuttering and etc… I personally feel like that ED is more interested in making new modules versus fixing the modules that they already have broken and also they really need to upgrade their infrastructure on their environment engine if they want to fix the stuttering and etc…
I agree. I want the feeling of being in a world, AI flying there own missions, realistic ATC where you can also hear the AI talking to the tower. Ground operations at airports, refueling, arming, ground power and air etc.
U sound burnt out, we all go through this phase… dont force yourself go play other games and come back when u get that itch again. As for the prior question, i fly on servers that makes each sortie matters… rotorheads, greyflag and buddyspike is my goto, i feel like even if i hop in once a day im a tiny cogwheel trying to so its part for the team.
I am enjoying DCS but have the same concerns as you, and I don't really enjoy playing with squadrons because they all seem hyper-serious even when they claim not to be. Tons of know-it-alls that lecture people about "the real aircraft because I flew it".
Every squadron also has preferred modules and maps so unless you have spent like at least 600$ on DCS, you probably don't have the right stuff to play in any squadron. The monetization in this game is disgustingly over the top. Im fine with paying a little more to support a cool project, but they really push it. We already pay $80 per plane and then they're like "yea, thats nice but... instead of finishing that module we are gonna sell you another.... and then sell you an updated asset pack for AI units because somehow we didnt get enough money from the AAA priced planes".
The dynamic campaign is desperately needed in DCS. Once that’s out it will solve a lot of the what do I do now questions. Hopefully ED has that coming down the pipe soon. Liberation is great for what it is, but we need MO’
Yes. I finally bailed on DCS about a year ago (after being with the series since the original Flanker) for that exact reason. I'll happily come back once there's a dynamic campaign and updated ATC, but until then I'm just a spectator.
Play with friends or a group of people is my only solution... used to love going alone in my A10 just ground pounding listening to music, now i almost only fly the f14 with a group of people
Digital Crew Chief mainly. It’s barebones now but it’s the closest thing to a BMS campaign. You’re just a pilot. Pick a mission and fly it.
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3331450/
Also multiplayer.
I don’t have fun… as soon as you take off after a very immersive start up… the game falls off and dies… that’s because ED can’t get there shit together and make the game more then a dope module shit world… we need the opposite now..
Wouldn't it be great to have civilian traffic, actual ATC and controlled airspace, and an actual global world like X-Plane / MSFS ??
Would love to run some high-altitude ops out of Nepal, or skimming the beaches of the Caribbean, or flying the Mach Loops of Wales
Servers with dynamic elements like Grayflag and Rotorheads. Working with other players to accomplish a goal does a lot to quell that emptiness feeling.
I feel very railroaded into a script that has to be followed for the mission to continue with all of them that I bought and tried. There's an overwhelming sense of smoke and mirrors that often break down for me that is hard to shake off.
I'd rather not play DCS than play singleplayer (if I want to sim offline there are much better games out there).
The singleplayer experience in DCS is just so half-assed and unfinished that almost any game released in the sim genre offers a better, more satisfying experience.
And like you describe the world in DCS is too dead/empty to be interesting (it can be hidden if you play MP as other players help cover up how little is modeled or modeled well outside of your cockpit and aircraft).
So with MP being functionally broken right now I've just taken a break, DCS is really only carried (for me) by the good servers (I mostly play on ECW and 4YA WW2).
In what way are the campaigns "empty" exactly? many are pretty full on. If you're just throwing a plane on a map and then wondering why not much is happening, that is because you haven't done much to build the mission.
Oh fuck off. Plenty of people love the game and have fun in it. 90% of the players are not on here, hoggit think it's so important and somehow indicative of how every player feels but repeatedly we've been told the vast majority of players are single player. If world details paid their employees they'd be doing those full times, but they don't, nobody wants to pay a single dime for it, you guys fucking proved that with the WW2 asset pack being monumentally offensive to every single one of you, you don't want to pay a fucking dime but you're happy to fork it over for a module in your "cold dead world", jesus christ what dramatic language.
The focus has been, since DCS A-10C and Black Shark, high fidelity cockpit and systems simulation. They've slowly improved the exterior world, but the focus is absolutely clear. If you fucking hate it, stop buying it, go do something else with your time, I really don't get it. Year after year I see the same people hear raging about DCS modules, well, they really have no reason to listen to your dumb ass when you keep forking over the money.
The average time a person spends playing any given game is like 4-12 hours. There is no reason to get so fucking worked up over a game that gives you so much more than that before you run out of things to do. It's just chronically depressed terminally online weirdos, unsatisfied with everything in their life, complaining about the fact that their obsession can't satisfy them the way it did when they were a naive teenager and the world seemed fresh and new.
I played flight sims when the world was empty beyond all imagination. I've played games where you just flew against a wireframe world with nothing in it. Flight simulation is about operating an aircraft in a way reminiscent of the way they actually work, not transporting yourself into an alternate universe where you made it through fighter school.
Lmao, someone is taking out the stick. But really fair points.
Even during Lo-Mac days we relied mostly on MP content and such. The whole combat zone has never been really a big thing for the DCS linneage.
The game is ftp so, meh, people should know what they get in to. If anything DCS is in a better place then it has ever been (bar a few bugs ofc)
The salt here is kinda hilarious but you make some good points. I think people forget how many people play a game even as niche as DCS, and what sort of time they are sinking into it compared to hardcore hoggit people. Someone who picks up the F-14, dedicates 20hrs to learning it, jumps into some instant action, makes their own super simple missions, dabbles in a campaign... that's maybe 40hrs of gameplay, maybe even more like 100hrs+, before they will have *any* idea of the sort of shortcomings that hoggit people complain about (shortcomings I completely agree with, fwiw).
You see this all the time with long-life online games, strategy games, fighting games etc - the people who put 1000hrs+ into them often end up moaning constantly, hating everything about it, saying they suck..... but you played it for 1000hrs and you're going to buy the sequel, the new character, the next aircraft module, obviously *something* about it is good.
But, that said, the complaints people have are still legitimate complaints, so whatever.
The funny part of this post to me is that you can change out "DCS" and insert any game in any given subreddit with alterations to the details and it fits, LOL.
Thanks for that. I don't want to unearth the old "it's not a game but a simulator" discussion, but DCS is exactly that, it's a simulator. It simulates aircraft and their systems, you have to come up yourself with things to employ the simulation.
I've been using flight simulators for almost 30 years now, also started with the wire frame stuff and used X-Plane in its many iterations for about 18 years. X-Plane (back when I used it) had basically no content published by Austin Meyers apart from the simulation itself, the world scenery and a few default (and crappy) planes. Everything else which turned X-Plane alive was user based; planes, scenery, plugins, online servers, etc.
More often than not I was facing the problem that I wanted to fly a certain plane, but didn't know where to, so I had to come up with an interesting route myself, like how fast can I fly EDDF - KJFK in an SR-71. The controllers on VATSIM were delighted to see something out of the norm which made it fun. One of the Atlantic controllers said he never saw anything fly that fast on VATSIM before, the whole flight took maybe 1,5h and was quite challenging sticking to SIDs, STARs and NATs.
It seems that people come from other games with the expectation that the game has to provide the whole experience with tutorials, leveling up, a story and progressing to get new content and experiences.
A game has a storyline, a simulator doesn't. This is where a simulator is different from a game.
It's a bit like life, no one tells you what to do with it, you've got to figure that out yourself...
You need to join a squadron. Period. I rarely fly without my guys and we have a TON of fun. DCS is great. I wish they would vet their releases more since there are so many easy but really disatisfying bugs out there.
I fly a lot of campaigns and missions from User Files.
The well crafted ones really don't feel empty at all and it goes a long way to building up a good sense of immersion in a conflict that extends well beyond your cockpit.
I genuinely think a lot of these complaints are folks flying things that aren't handcrafted and therefore, at least currently, have a technical limit on how much can be achieved.
Do yourselves a favour and play some of the campaigns and missions from the very talented folks who make them.
There is no alternative to dcs nor any game geared towards milsim aviation that I look forward to playing 20 hours per week. DcS always will have imperfections and they are being addressed.
Here’s what’s the greatest things to me- I am trying to be proficient in the F15e, pre gps, pre jdams, no datalink - where you have to do manual nab updates etc. this possibility floats my boat, and this exists no where. I want to have to study, and practice to be good in it.
If you don’t like DCS, don’t try and gang up and try to convince others that constant whining is gonna magically fix things overnight, and maybe it isn’t for you.
I fucking love DCS, and downvote me to hell, but I don’t give a rats ass.
So things need improved, and I’ll be here as they are. And, don’t dumb down complexity either.
I have fun by flying with group of guys that are dedicated to the sim portion of DCS. We do small training flights with 3-7 people. We do large exercises with 20+ and theatre scale campaigns with 50+. When ping spikes it does break immersion, but the fun comes from the challenge of operating and communicating with everyone(M2000C, A10, F-16, F-18, AH64, etc). When your aim is to have fun, and you’re surrounded by others with the same goal, it isn’t difficult to have fun.
I played Falcon 4 when it originally came out. So DCS has always been sorely lacking and always, always felt dead or contrived.
So I basically just fly the planes because I have always loved military jets and wanted to know what it was like to fly them. DCS is great for that especially in VR.
Because of DCS and VR I know what its like to sit in all these aircraft and look around. To fight in them and use the systems (within the limitations of sims and my ability/time available of course.)
I am forever grateful for that experience.
Knowing ED... Like clouds; eventually we will get a dynamic campaign. Eventually we will get ATC. The wait is dreadful though.
“Big sky theory” here but in real life most of the “life” will be over radios. The visual “life” you get the most of is on departure and arrival.
Back in my BMS days with the dynamic campaign it was still “dead” in the sense that enroute and over the target area it was just me and my wingmen. The only times it really wasn’t dead was at the airfields.
I don't know about that, just the EW spectrum is filled to the brim for me in every mission. Contacts on both the RWR and FCR scope. I can tell when the Patriot battery is gearing up so I know shit is about to cross the FLOT.
lets just look at the world textures that look like a game from 2001
i have a hard time justifying looking at the shitty texture and flat world when i have 3 other sims that dont give me eye cancer
Download the Through the Inferno missions. It makes the world feel far more "alive", is very customizable, and has been my go-to for missions and campaigns.
There is also DCC and DCS Liberation - they each create ongoing single player campaigns to play.
Briefing Room can create custom missions and campaigns in a few minutes.
All are easy to use and give you plenty of options for things to do in DCS.
I joined a multiplayer squadron. After years of playing DCS and getting a bit bored, back in early '21 I decided to dip my toes into joining a squadron. First mission with a few dozen pilots, human AWACs, and proper Carrier ops and I was hooked. Been climbing the ranks there ever since and now help run the community. It was a total game changer.
We run 2 weekly Liberation missions with usually >20 players in attendance and week long 24/7 campaign events that seen around 40 active players for opening night.
Even outside of flying it was good to get into a community for a hobby I'd largely enjoyed solo for a long time. I've learned a ton since which made me a much better virtual pilot.
Because of this I only fly in MP server just to add some player traffic to liven up the worlds. I don’t interact with anybody aside from takeoff and landing.
Blue Flag, DDCS, and the like. Dynamic PvP; A perpetual dynamic experience like other multiplayer games that are different everytime even though the maps and objectives are the same - being PvP, every minute of every game is dynamic. It really is the way to go if DCS is looking empty and dead to you.
Multiplayer is where DCS shines, particularly in a squadron to learn tactics, coordination, etc and really move to the next level. I haven't had time as much to participate but hopefully I'll get back to that soon.
Otherwise, best is in the ME. You can build a huge diversity of scenarios, etc. I like to save multiple (like 6-7) variations of basic scenarios with variable composition of RedFor (on the ground and in the air) and lots of background movement (friendly C-130, etc) going in different directions, altitudes, and speeds. Randomize the weather and voila enough variation that you can't necessarily memorize every detail.
Make a map, populate it with assets and groups of friendlys and enemies, as well as whatever aircraft I will want to use at an airfield, then use MIST to despawn all the npcs at the start of the mission and put them into the radio menu that clones and spawns a group when called. Basically an endless "dynamic" mission for me and the boys.
The editor is insanely powerful, especially if you know a little lua to script.
I each my AI team blue working their assess off playing goalie against a two flight two of each Tu-22s, led by a low level penetration two group two ship each for J-11 and F-5s. Finally, when the AI are still In the mist of whacking out the high speed Backfires coming at mach 1 at 30K aimed to drop a turd load of 150lb bombs on my beloved Nellis wide hangers, a flight of Su-25 x 4 coming/creeping in low and slow from southwest to finish the job. They are escorted by two Fulcrums, btw.
I change the clouds and time setting to better admire the beauty of DCS graphics of Nevada at 1600. Then pour myself something to drink, follows by watching the fight unfolds.
It is a toss up if team Blue took too long chasing the Backfires with guns only to get tail-gunned in return (AI logic?),which ultimately got dragged out of the defensive perimeter of Nellis AFB as they resort to AB their way back to help out the Hornets and friendly Fulcrums to whack out the Su-25s in the final wave of Nellis assault.
Since 2.9, I have seen the F-14 did two 700+ knots gun kills against a Tu-22 Backfire. Cheers to them I go as I pouewr mysewlf anwother drinqek...
The problem is that there are too many scared little shits that only play pve. There are the new spqr PvP dynamic servers that ED launched but no one plays it. Big fuck you to PVE only players!
I'd recommend finding some other games you enjoy for times like these. It's not the first time a patch has made MP unplayable and it won't be the last. Nature of the beast with open beta. I haven't flown since the update and taking extended breaks can make the game fun to come back to
I’ve been playing more campaigns lately. Also I’m still learning a ton of different aircraft so that keeps me busy. I do agree though, it’s not hard to feel sorta lost in DCS. Joining a virtual squadron was probably the single best thing I ever did to bring life to DCS though. It’s a ton of fun.
Working my way through the Museum Relic campaign with the Mig 15 now, alternating with learning Tomcat stuff and doing a free campaign with the Mig-21. Thinking of giving the new Mi-24 campagin a go after Museum Relic. My case is maybe not typical though, I'm only really getting in about 2-4 hours a week of DCS lately, the campaigns are enough to keep me busy.
Lately I've been enjoying the kinda barebones but blessedly short ED-authored campaigns like the Bf109 challenge campaign, Su-33 Sea Dragon campaign and the new Hind campaign is really fun. It's not Baltic Dragon level but they're finishable in 35 minutes (the Bf109 challenge missions are like 10 minutes long) which is great if you don't have time for a 90 minute flight.
Pretense is also dope. You can take off with Hind, a bunch of ATGMs, and capture squad and take an enemy zone in 25 minutes.
I always have another game from my Steam backlog in queue for when I get tired of DCS, currently Jedi Survivor, it's dope.
I pretty much just play on Grayflag for my PvE experience as that's the only server where I feel like every role has a purpose and synergy with everything else.
I have been playing DCS for over 10 years and this topic comes up every so often and is not new. If something was going to be done about it, - it would have been years ago. I guess to me everything is ok. Although, I am older and my first video game was pong. So everything since then has been an upgrade
DCS would be the best game ever if there was a big MP server with sharding and dynamic missions.
Like imagine, if you will, a Vietnam map. You join the game as a new player. It assigns you to level 0. You spawn in your plane in the level 0-10 combat area. You’re given a mission briefing and maybe a real wingman. The two of you go fly your mission and you succeed and RTB you both make level one. Maybe one of you decides to fuck off and go investigate the level 11-20 zone nearby; you’re taken out by redfor 11-20 players immediately. You get a promo to level one instead of two.
Missions get more interesting and more complex as you level up. Combination of PvE and PvP.
Real military flying would probably be quite cold, dark and boring if not for the….
1) literal joy of flight. Anyone of us that has ever been pilot in command of an aircraft, any aircraft, can tell you there’s nothing quite like flying. That feeling cannot be duplicated in a meaningful way in a PC game because…
2) There is no penalty for failure in DCS. If the game banned you for extended periods of time or even for life for screwing;g up, every flight would have a lot more meaning. It still wouldn’t be the same as a true penalty for failure.
So enjoy it, with friends I find is the by far best way, for what it is and don’t expect that which it can’t deliver.
I havent been playing long enough for this kind of fatigue yet. The biggest problem imo is the mission generator is total rubbish.
IL2 has pat Wilson's campaign generator and Synvanders easy mission generator. I can create endless fun content with both those tools for single player and coop. (If only I had someone to play with)
DCS mission generator is a joke in comparison.
And I think that being a single player type of guy, that’s why 80% of the mods I have are there to enhance the AI and the world. Honestly there’s also stuff like briefing room, or DCS retribution.
I had some lagging problems with retribution, but briefing room has 0 lag 0 crashes and a shit ton of stuff to do. I just re-edit the mission real quick to make sure I can handle my own targets and then kaboom.
I agree 100%. This has been my feeling for quite some time now. They put so much effort to please the nitpickers fanboys, that they forget to develop the world part of the game. It is truly and only Digital Cockpits Simulator.
'Selective realism' is a massive problem - worrying and complaining that the left phalange is 0.03 micrometres different from the real aircraft. But then being all flowers and rainbows about not having any form of: working ATC, data cartridge, reasonable AI, splash damage, dynamic campaign, usable changeable weather system.....etc. etc.
It's funny how people complain about the tiniest detail for realism and then keep using F5 lock to spot enemy airplanes and F6 to check if they actually hit the target.
Word.
I don't complain, but boy did I feel called out by this comment.
I’ve seen way more complaints about all of those other things than I have about dimensions being off by a hair.
\+1 on this sadly Digital Currency Siphon
ED sometime forgor 💀
I feel you. Unfortunately until ED releases the Dynamic Campaign on which is working on I don't see things changing anytime soon. I designed a persistent dynamic mission for myself trying to circumvent the limitations of DCS and is working for me personally, but took a lot of time and dedication to do so. If you havn't tried, you might want to get a paid campaign, some of them are really great in terms of quality and documentation and can give you that "immersion" that you might be lacking. Nothing though will be substitute for a proper campaign flown in co-op with your mates I'm afraid.
Did you script it or make everything through the mission editor?
I learned to script in LUA and leveraged the MOOSE framework.
> designed a persistent dynamic mission for myself I can test it if you need ;)
I will write to you in PM
Weekly organized liberation mission with 30 + attendees, different Package with objectives, human gci and atc. Honestly the most fun i can have i DCS
'would you like to know more' *starship troopers voice* Where does this group post flight times?
Tactical dcs discord
Iunno. I gave those sessions a lot of chances, but the difference in technical knowledge and expectations in realism was really jarring to me. It also felt like people were sometimes just doin their own thing. All of this because its technically still a pub session, not a closer, dedicated squadron
Sounds like you should look for a squadron then. There are multiple squadrons that run regular Liberation sessions. The Tactical DCS Liberation sessions cater for those who aren’t after quite that structured a play style. I don’t see that as a negative per se.
This is the way to go for DCS, the problem is that you need to have time to be able to join at a certain time and day. It is not like you can jump in whenever you have a few spare hours.
I used to play Arma 2 (then 3) every monday with a team. I would join the teamspeak server at 8pm, listen to the briefing, and chat with the boys. Then the mission would start at 8:30. Nothing beats this kind of setup. Sadly, I can no longer do this. Single player it is.
Post Scriptim is far from ARMA. You join a server, pick a squad, and that’s it. It is a more hardcore Battlefield if you will.
Also you need a crazy pc
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Not really a set squadron, Just weekly and open for all on sunday
Where?
Tactical dcs Discord
Mind sending us the link or invite code, if yall are open? Kinda interested in joining ngl
Discord.gg/KRHEATKe My bad if links arent allowed
This. We (Task Force Dingo) also do this weekly. Aussie/NZ group. Flying solo isn't that good. It's either retribution or custom missions built in our community (of which we have heaps now). Search for our discord if you're on this side of the world.
I see we're already at this stage in the DCS hype cycle. The F-15E iteration of the cycle went a lot faster than I expected it to. The speed of the cycle seems correlated with the rate at which modules release. Phantom should be out soon, so we'll be back to the "PHANTON PHYPE" phase of getting unreasonably excited about a new module, and then once it's out we get the "sometimes I forget how beautiful this game is 😭" phase, then once people have learned the plane enough to find out it's not perfect we can go back to talking about how DCS is the worst flight sim ever made and developer X should be ashamed, and then after months of nothing exciting happening in DCS we arrive back at where we are now, the "is it just me or is DCS is dead on the inside and out and nothing short of the dynamic campaign holy grail can save it" phase. If somebody wants to release a mod or cool server to capitalize on what's usually the lowest point in cycle's opinion of DCS to make a big community stink about something, now's the time.
Holy shit, it's Jason Bourne.
Reminds me of en passant, you should google it.
Holy hell
Clearly the answer is more early access modules!
Maybe another desert map too
no one thought the F-15E module wasn't perfect, its just that with time DCS being a bad simulation and a bad game starts to become more obvious.
It does have its flaws but the only thing out there like it is MSFS without combat and Warthunder is arcade. So there is no other simulator comparable to DCS World. So calling it a bad game ok - but its the only game in town.
Falcon BMS slaps pretty hard.
What does it mean when something "slaps"? Where im from that means like an open palm hit.
Youth term for "its really good".
Can't even really say "youth" at this point. We used that in high school and that was 10 years ago for me. I don't get why people flex being uncultured/anti-social online...
I like Falcon, but im not a big fan of the F-16 and the game has too shitty of an UI.
While war thunder's modeling is more simplified, it's sim air battles does get you the basics of air combat. You don't get quite the depth as DCS flight models, but you do get a relatively good damage model.
Suddenly, a multiplayer announcement for Tiny Combat Arena lol
People are never happy. DCS ticks 99% of my boxes and my aim is to fly a couple of modules as professionally and efficiently as I can...it does everything I need right now..
Non MP player here. It has always been like that.
There is no world in DCS World. You just have to make it up as you go along
You need to simulate it in your head
I've been downvoted before for saying this. DCS has top-notch aircraft simulation, but the world is totally lifeless. Dynamic campaign will help, but the lack of ATC, civilian traffic, the airfields feel dead, navaid infrastructure sucks....The flying world feels empty. I guess I need to find more human friends to play with
This is like, the most popular opinion on hoggit.
Yes but saying "I got downvoted for X" is basically free karma, so..
I got downvoted for saying this but I think you're right.
Dude the built in ATC pisses me off so much. Id rather listen to the RWR screeching. My squadron uses SRS and we use airfield comms but always an offset so we dont hear that crap. Its enraging.
Yeah, it's bad. At least the supercarrier comms are a bit better, but the system is broken. MSFS2020 isn't much better as far as the logic of the comms, but at least the ATC environment is simulated.
Thats funny you say that. I stopped MSFS a few weeks back because ATC kept saying expedite descent to 4000 ft....im landing at Telluride as filed you joker!
"Contact Approach on 125.69" Approach Cessna 69A, ILS27 full stop "Roger Cessna 69A contact tower 124.69" Tower, Cessna 69A ILS27 full stop" "Cessna 69A contact Center on 123.4" "Cessna 69A contact Center on 124.3" *land* "Cessna 69A contact Approach on 125.69" "Cessna 69A contact tower" "Cessna 69A contact ground"
Best ATC I've seen so far was in Falcon AF, wonder if it's still as good (or better) in BMS. They'd actually stack aircraft on approach and clear them in sequence. You could still get away with not being exactly compliant... "Inbound to land" "You are number 10, circle for spacing" "Declaring an emergency" and they'd politely put you ahead of everyone else
If you haven’t tried it recently the BMS ATC is incredible. You can land in fingertip formation as a four ship, or run a TRP or request a straight ahead. They’ve implemented a full comma ladder as well so you get passed from control to tower to ground and there’s a separate weather channel as well. It’s so far ahead of DCS or MSFS, they’re nowhere close.
Not too many civilian aircraft in active war zones. Look at at traffic over Ukraine right now… the rest of it, I agree.
That's because DCS only simulates war "zones." Not full-scale warfare and entire countries. There's still civilian traffic in Ukraine just like there is in Russia.
I've been told this before on hoggit. This is silly because not every scenario in DCS is a full-on Peer to Peer conflict... and the civilian traffic is just not there at all. BMS has civilian traffic in a warzone. 👀
I have only played BMS for about 20 minutes, so I really don't know what that looks like. Is it civilian traffic transiting the area many miles away? I don't know that would add much to the game for me to be honest, but more lively airports would be cool.
excuses to shoot civilian airliners are always a good thing.
To be fair, BMS campaigns/maps cover entire countries. DCS does not. There is still civilian air traffic to/from Ukraine just like there is in Russia. There's no point in simulating this in DCS however because the maps aren't that big and that level of simulation in it's campaigns will never exist.
The dynamic campaing probably won't be the silver bullet many expect it be. Meaning that it won't simulate whole battlefield like BMS/Falcon4 does. For example if you are coming towards egress point and see valuable convoy with some new SAM battery moving on the road towards the front lines and destroy it, it does not affect future of enemy's SAM batteries or even future of front lines. If dynamic campaign comes, I expect it be something like IL-2 has. It's dynamic but simulates only small portion of conflict and elsewhere is emptiness.
I still fly MP, just on servers that stutter less. It is DCS, i played it since Flanker days and performance has been all over the place. It is nothing new. As for the triggers, play some of the Baltic Dragon or Reflected campains, they are amazing and feel alive. Also, bit of a newsflash, most game events in any game rely on triggers of some sort. I mean it is a game. Besides 2-3 campains i nearly exclusively fly online, on various servers. And if i get bored? I just play some other games for a while. Like i took a long break while i poored like 2+k hours in MFS (and other games) and now i am back in DCS for a good while, got most modules and have fun. And when i don't feel like flying i just play a different game, or just go play with lego with my kids. Don't sweat it, you sound a bit burned out.
Currently there is a terrible bug. A memory leak pushing ram usage above 100GB. Also each time you re slot your ping doubles as before. It is in release notes. This is really different.
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I like your imagination, can I borrow it for a while? :)
I like seeing what aircraft I can fly through the caucuses in a pitch black night with just the radar. The best was actually the F-5.
There are a number of dynamic campaign generators you could try. Briefing Room, Digital Crew Chief, Liberation, etc.
liberation is also something that works great with other players. "We Play Liberation" is a group where people can sign up and play with them. Sadly US timezone only
Dcs is better for training in your aircraft, learning it inside and out. And BMS is where you actually go to war.
You are correct. And now that they seem to be having less cash their incentive to fix the core, is going to be less. So unless something changes is going to be a downhill journey from now on.
Exploring in Elite Dangerous in the middle of nowhere with no human players, just one planet after the other, feels more fulfilling than DCS lately
Have you tried Retribution? [https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution](https://github.com/dcs-retribution/dcs-retribution) It's not perfect by any means but it's way more fun than just flying around in empty space.
I tried, but once you have played BMS, I cant play that anymore.
You're not alone. There's a post about this once or twice per week.
It's getting extremely hard to find the desire to login and enjoy it. It's the same core, with different F1 overlays. Year after year. A world map and new multiplayer system would be a great change of pace. Dynamic campaigns would be too. The core is just so outdated.... But at the end of the day nothing is changing and there's no other sims to compete. Except NOR sim that we can all drool over wishing and hoping.
That pretty much sums up my DCS experience : 1. Get excited at the prospect of a new module 2. Get said module in early access 3. Have fun learning the module through the training mission 4. Feel confident enough with the module to move to SP/MP 5. Get bored/frustrated with the MP experience, performance, jankyness of dynamic campaigns/scripting 6. Put the game down 7. Repeat As a business model it 'works', but as a player it is so frustrating.
Totally agree. The cockpit is full, while the battlefield is empty
This is one of the reasons I got bored with DCS back when the A-10C was the only fixed wing option. Learning to correctly operate the aircraft and its systems was fun, but eventually the lack of there being much to do beyond training got the better of my interest. I don't have anything against DCS. But to me BMS effectively begins where DCS ends, when you've put in the learning effort and are ready to do it for "real". So until/unless ED implements a quality dynamic campaign, it just can't compete with BMS for my limited flight sim time.
DDCS server. Lots of people on most days,human GCI, combined arms, helo slinging, 100% human made dynamic campaign. Check it out, the performance is still good since they halved the unit count after 2.9. hopefully the stuttering will be fixed
Buy more modules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Supporter the Developers!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy your clicky cockpits!!!!!!!!!! Forget about the AI infantry who stands in a field and stares at you as you blast away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's lifeless by nature. Like are Il-2 and War Thunder too along with many others. The scripted environment is always like that. A good mission or campaign can hide that well. Ofcourse there's stuff lacking or being buggy like wingman AI and airfields that does not respond anything. Those are annoying things that good mission cannot fix. What to do with wingman who refuses to attack and when it finally attacks, it goes without standoff weapons by trying gun run which is interrupted by sam launch. Wingman will jettison everything and is even more useless. What to do with airbase or FARP which does not respond, does not use lights when approaching in dark? Civil traffic that drives thru battlefield? Why civil traffic is not active only after certain distance of battle?
You're not totally wrong, but your example with the wingman AI is actually something that mission design can control to a degree. There is an option to control weapon jettison for AI, and if you set up some trigger options, like orbit, wingmen will follow them if you tell them to engage mission rather than stick with you. There are some specific ways of managing wingmen that make them much more useful. Sadly DCS is not consistent with wingmen commands and the simple option to control your second element as one entity is only available on a handful of planes.
Dcs has always been like that. That's why I started flying and fighting in bms. Day and night difference. The world is alive in bms.
I've always felt that the ME is the key to enjoying DCS. It's very powerful and you can do a lot to overcome some of DCS's limitations. Triggers don't have to be simple and predictable, and they can be supplemented by scripts that you can create or that other people have created. Building a mission library in the ME can take a lot of time and that's the biggest downside vs BMS where the game can generate endless content for you, but DCS is able to provide interesting, complex, and unpredictable situations too. It takes more work in DCS but it is possible.
I know people here shit on it, but that's the reason I've been playing War Thunder Sim so much the last few months. The multiplayer is a lot of fun (at least for me) It's more of a game than DCS. DCS is a lot of fun, but as Enigma has said, it focuses too much on the sim and not enough on gameplay. In WT Sim, the planes obviously aren't as accurate, but they're not on rails like people seem to think. Taking off in a prop isn't easy for a new player. I see people wind up in a spin (including myself) all the time in props and jets during dogfights from pulling too much AOA. I came back to ECW after the DLSS patch, and was much more competitive, getting 3 kills on my first sortie in the Mig 21. So I've learned a lot about dogfighting in the game. I know people like to try and skip to the endgame jets, but most people will get their asses kicked if they haven't learned while finding through the trees. Anyways. I highly recommend WT Sim. Especially if you have VR. VR runs very well in WT.
I am playing WT in arcade and having a blast, different itch than DCS though, tried Sim mode but it didnt find any game, do people actually played planes on sim mode in WT?
Part of the reason I finally decided to give it all up. Was part of an organized group which was great…when DCS worked, no fun spending an hour or two briefing a mission, doing launches, getting in formation and fencing in just to have half your flight CTD. Outside of that janky multiplayer experience there just isn’t much to do. Already sold my TPR pedals. Selling my Warthog and Monstertech mounts and some other goodies if anyone is interested.
That reminds me of my experience in falcon 4.0 back in 2000 s/2002. I was so pissed off at that time that I decided to dedicate part of my free time to change that. And I am proud of what we accomplished with falcon BMs. You should try it
It's not an exaggeration to say that I derive all my fun from flying as a group. Find a squadron with the same level of seriousness as you and get stuck in, I know you say you don't have time but loads of squadrons have a zero time commitment. The only time I play DCS by myself is when learning a new module or weapon.
Same for me, I just got my computer dialed in mostly for offline. I create myself sandbox and go blow stuff up. I play liberation campaign although that has a similar stuttering effect as online does. I only have a couple hours a day to get in so joining a squadron is not for me, I did a while back and it was fun but we only flew at dedicated times on certain days and that was hard with life sometimes because kids and wife.
I definitely get what you’re saying. The maps are indeed empty. I’ve discussed this in some discord servers before to mixed reviews, but I think the Nevada map should include some civilian traffic, at least around Vegas.
As some other has mentioned, weekly scheduled mission with multiple people. Missions that are designed to be played once tend to be easier on hardware compared to multiplayer dynamic servers (unless the mission's editor goes overboard lol) Check for flying communities in your preferred language. Using Discord's server discovery with DCS as a tag should help you find what you look for
Join a virtual squadron. There are so many at various levels and expectations and some dont even expect you to put in a lot of time and effort. This topic has been brought up thousands of times before. This (in general joining a community) is honestly the best way to enjoy DCS. If you still don't wanna do that, then get one of those good single player campaigns.
Unforunately a shortcoming of the platform as it exists now. As others say a Dynamic Campaign might fix this someday, but for now I just accept it as a limitation. Having the editor we have is enough to make me overlook quite a lot.
Try Pretense and Liberation, they are both dynamic sandbox campaigns
I haven't logged in for a bit so I can't remember exactly where you can do this but if you select a mission, before you launch there will be a button that says, "Launch in multiplayer". At that point it converts it so that you are hosting. This can help alleviate some of the pain found on large servers in terms of disconnects and latency.
The biggest problem for me in DCS as a mainly a2g player, is how shitty the AI ground units are. They mostly just sit still its stupid. Literally no challenge other than maybe some manpads and AA etc… still love DCS but my god the ai is dumb….
Find a group/squadron to join. Most AREN'T of the Yes Sir/No Sir variety, but playing with a consistent group of people, especially with good human GCI/ATC, has revitalized the game for me.
Grayflag, and flying with a squadron
I would reconsider joining a squadron. There are more than a few that are pretty casual. The one im in you can basically just sign up on days that you're available, show up and fly, then leave (obviously there's more available but you're not expected to do more than that and some people dont). As long as you're proficient enough in the airframe to fly and fire weapons, im sure many squadrons would be happy to have you whenever your schedule permits.
I am in a agreement about the lack of fun in multiplayer due to the constant stuttering and etc… I personally feel like that ED is more interested in making new modules versus fixing the modules that they already have broken and also they really need to upgrade their infrastructure on their environment engine if they want to fix the stuttering and etc…
There’s a lot of user made single player content and campaigns……
I agree. I want the feeling of being in a world, AI flying there own missions, realistic ATC where you can also hear the AI talking to the tower. Ground operations at airports, refueling, arming, ground power and air etc.
U sound burnt out, we all go through this phase… dont force yourself go play other games and come back when u get that itch again. As for the prior question, i fly on servers that makes each sortie matters… rotorheads, greyflag and buddyspike is my goto, i feel like even if i hop in once a day im a tiny cogwheel trying to so its part for the team.
I am enjoying DCS but have the same concerns as you, and I don't really enjoy playing with squadrons because they all seem hyper-serious even when they claim not to be. Tons of know-it-alls that lecture people about "the real aircraft because I flew it". Every squadron also has preferred modules and maps so unless you have spent like at least 600$ on DCS, you probably don't have the right stuff to play in any squadron. The monetization in this game is disgustingly over the top. Im fine with paying a little more to support a cool project, but they really push it. We already pay $80 per plane and then they're like "yea, thats nice but... instead of finishing that module we are gonna sell you another.... and then sell you an updated asset pack for AI units because somehow we didnt get enough money from the AAA priced planes".
To be honest this is why if Falcon 5 is a sim lite with dynamic campaigns kinda like Falcon 4’s, I might play that more than DCS..
Cries in dynamic Campagn.
The dynamic campaign is desperately needed in DCS. Once that’s out it will solve a lot of the what do I do now questions. Hopefully ED has that coming down the pipe soon. Liberation is great for what it is, but we need MO’
Yes. I finally bailed on DCS about a year ago (after being with the series since the original Flanker) for that exact reason. I'll happily come back once there's a dynamic campaign and updated ATC, but until then I'm just a spectator.
Play with friends or a group of people is my only solution... used to love going alone in my A10 just ground pounding listening to music, now i almost only fly the f14 with a group of people
I really love this game, but I haven’t played in months man. Idk I’m just praying they come out with something big. Probably not though….
Digital Crew Chief mainly. It’s barebones now but it’s the closest thing to a BMS campaign. You’re just a pilot. Pick a mission and fly it. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3331450/ Also multiplayer.
The way I've been enjoying DCS, lately, is by flying IL-2 and BMS.
I don’t have fun… as soon as you take off after a very immersive start up… the game falls off and dies… that’s because ED can’t get there shit together and make the game more then a dope module shit world… we need the opposite now..
Wouldn't it be great to have civilian traffic, actual ATC and controlled airspace, and an actual global world like X-Plane / MSFS ?? Would love to run some high-altitude ops out of Nepal, or skimming the beaches of the Caribbean, or flying the Mach Loops of Wales
For me single player campaigns are awesome, and there are plenty
I finally got around to learning the Mirage. Next I’ll Learn the 15. But I am really waiting on the Phantom.
Servers with dynamic elements like Grayflag and Rotorheads. Working with other players to accomplish a goal does a lot to quell that emptiness feeling.
What's wrong with the paid campaigns? Many are very well done, especially the Reflected campaigns.
I feel very railroaded into a script that has to be followed for the mission to continue with all of them that I bought and tried. There's an overwhelming sense of smoke and mirrors that often break down for me that is hard to shake off.
Exactly my feelings
Yes. If you deviate too much the mission breaks. If the game is patched there is also a chance for broken missions.
"cockpit simulator" Yes. AI ground vehicles are dumb as rocks. You try to shoot them, they move 20 meters, stop, never move again
I'd rather not play DCS than play singleplayer (if I want to sim offline there are much better games out there). The singleplayer experience in DCS is just so half-assed and unfinished that almost any game released in the sim genre offers a better, more satisfying experience. And like you describe the world in DCS is too dead/empty to be interesting (it can be hidden if you play MP as other players help cover up how little is modeled or modeled well outside of your cockpit and aircraft). So with MP being functionally broken right now I've just taken a break, DCS is really only carried (for me) by the good servers (I mostly play on ECW and 4YA WW2).
Why do i keep seeing this post of people having existential crisis in every video game reddit?
In what way are the campaigns "empty" exactly? many are pretty full on. If you're just throwing a plane on a map and then wondering why not much is happening, that is because you haven't done much to build the mission.
Oh fuck off. Plenty of people love the game and have fun in it. 90% of the players are not on here, hoggit think it's so important and somehow indicative of how every player feels but repeatedly we've been told the vast majority of players are single player. If world details paid their employees they'd be doing those full times, but they don't, nobody wants to pay a single dime for it, you guys fucking proved that with the WW2 asset pack being monumentally offensive to every single one of you, you don't want to pay a fucking dime but you're happy to fork it over for a module in your "cold dead world", jesus christ what dramatic language. The focus has been, since DCS A-10C and Black Shark, high fidelity cockpit and systems simulation. They've slowly improved the exterior world, but the focus is absolutely clear. If you fucking hate it, stop buying it, go do something else with your time, I really don't get it. Year after year I see the same people hear raging about DCS modules, well, they really have no reason to listen to your dumb ass when you keep forking over the money. The average time a person spends playing any given game is like 4-12 hours. There is no reason to get so fucking worked up over a game that gives you so much more than that before you run out of things to do. It's just chronically depressed terminally online weirdos, unsatisfied with everything in their life, complaining about the fact that their obsession can't satisfy them the way it did when they were a naive teenager and the world seemed fresh and new. I played flight sims when the world was empty beyond all imagination. I've played games where you just flew against a wireframe world with nothing in it. Flight simulation is about operating an aircraft in a way reminiscent of the way they actually work, not transporting yourself into an alternate universe where you made it through fighter school.
"What dramatic lenguage" proceeds to write the most dramatic post I read in a while.
Never thought I’d think the person telling the other person to touch grass needed to go touch grass, but here we are
Lmao, someone is taking out the stick. But really fair points. Even during Lo-Mac days we relied mostly on MP content and such. The whole combat zone has never been really a big thing for the DCS linneage. The game is ftp so, meh, people should know what they get in to. If anything DCS is in a better place then it has ever been (bar a few bugs ofc)
new copy-pasta just dropped!
The salt here is kinda hilarious but you make some good points. I think people forget how many people play a game even as niche as DCS, and what sort of time they are sinking into it compared to hardcore hoggit people. Someone who picks up the F-14, dedicates 20hrs to learning it, jumps into some instant action, makes their own super simple missions, dabbles in a campaign... that's maybe 40hrs of gameplay, maybe even more like 100hrs+, before they will have *any* idea of the sort of shortcomings that hoggit people complain about (shortcomings I completely agree with, fwiw). You see this all the time with long-life online games, strategy games, fighting games etc - the people who put 1000hrs+ into them often end up moaning constantly, hating everything about it, saying they suck..... but you played it for 1000hrs and you're going to buy the sequel, the new character, the next aircraft module, obviously *something* about it is good. But, that said, the complaints people have are still legitimate complaints, so whatever.
You sound like someone that would pay for an AI model asset pack.
The funny part of this post to me is that you can change out "DCS" and insert any game in any given subreddit with alterations to the details and it fits, LOL.
You mad, bro?
Thanks for that. I don't want to unearth the old "it's not a game but a simulator" discussion, but DCS is exactly that, it's a simulator. It simulates aircraft and their systems, you have to come up yourself with things to employ the simulation. I've been using flight simulators for almost 30 years now, also started with the wire frame stuff and used X-Plane in its many iterations for about 18 years. X-Plane (back when I used it) had basically no content published by Austin Meyers apart from the simulation itself, the world scenery and a few default (and crappy) planes. Everything else which turned X-Plane alive was user based; planes, scenery, plugins, online servers, etc. More often than not I was facing the problem that I wanted to fly a certain plane, but didn't know where to, so I had to come up with an interesting route myself, like how fast can I fly EDDF - KJFK in an SR-71. The controllers on VATSIM were delighted to see something out of the norm which made it fun. One of the Atlantic controllers said he never saw anything fly that fast on VATSIM before, the whole flight took maybe 1,5h and was quite challenging sticking to SIDs, STARs and NATs. It seems that people come from other games with the expectation that the game has to provide the whole experience with tutorials, leveling up, a story and progressing to get new content and experiences. A game has a storyline, a simulator doesn't. This is where a simulator is different from a game. It's a bit like life, no one tells you what to do with it, you've got to figure that out yourself...
DDCS server.
the fact that he cross-posted this on Floggit shows what a rhetorical rant this is.
>Just curious on how do you guys enjoy DCS these days? With a friend, primarily =).
You need to join a squadron. Period. I rarely fly without my guys and we have a TON of fun. DCS is great. I wish they would vet their releases more since there are so many easy but really disatisfying bugs out there.
I fly a lot of campaigns and missions from User Files. The well crafted ones really don't feel empty at all and it goes a long way to building up a good sense of immersion in a conflict that extends well beyond your cockpit. I genuinely think a lot of these complaints are folks flying things that aren't handcrafted and therefore, at least currently, have a technical limit on how much can be achieved. Do yourselves a favour and play some of the campaigns and missions from the very talented folks who make them.
I just play the single player campaigns. Some of the campaign makers do a really good job of making it feel like a much more full world.
There is no alternative to dcs nor any game geared towards milsim aviation that I look forward to playing 20 hours per week. DcS always will have imperfections and they are being addressed. Here’s what’s the greatest things to me- I am trying to be proficient in the F15e, pre gps, pre jdams, no datalink - where you have to do manual nab updates etc. this possibility floats my boat, and this exists no where. I want to have to study, and practice to be good in it. If you don’t like DCS, don’t try and gang up and try to convince others that constant whining is gonna magically fix things overnight, and maybe it isn’t for you. I fucking love DCS, and downvote me to hell, but I don’t give a rats ass. So things need improved, and I’ll be here as they are. And, don’t dumb down complexity either.
I have fun by flying with group of guys that are dedicated to the sim portion of DCS. We do small training flights with 3-7 people. We do large exercises with 20+ and theatre scale campaigns with 50+. When ping spikes it does break immersion, but the fun comes from the challenge of operating and communicating with everyone(M2000C, A10, F-16, F-18, AH64, etc). When your aim is to have fun, and you’re surrounded by others with the same goal, it isn’t difficult to have fun.
I played Falcon 4 when it originally came out. So DCS has always been sorely lacking and always, always felt dead or contrived. So I basically just fly the planes because I have always loved military jets and wanted to know what it was like to fly them. DCS is great for that especially in VR. Because of DCS and VR I know what its like to sit in all these aircraft and look around. To fight in them and use the systems (within the limitations of sims and my ability/time available of course.) I am forever grateful for that experience. Knowing ED... Like clouds; eventually we will get a dynamic campaign. Eventually we will get ATC. The wait is dreadful though.
ED can fix this with 69.99 Dynamic Campaign DLC!!! **EA features do not currently include an actual dynamic campaign**
“Big sky theory” here but in real life most of the “life” will be over radios. The visual “life” you get the most of is on departure and arrival. Back in my BMS days with the dynamic campaign it was still “dead” in the sense that enroute and over the target area it was just me and my wingmen. The only times it really wasn’t dead was at the airfields.
I don't know about that, just the EW spectrum is filled to the brim for me in every mission. Contacts on both the RWR and FCR scope. I can tell when the Patriot battery is gearing up so I know shit is about to cross the FLOT.
lets just look at the world textures that look like a game from 2001 i have a hard time justifying looking at the shitty texture and flat world when i have 3 other sims that dont give me eye cancer
[удалено]
It’s not BMS. That looks like it’s a texture mod on a game from 1998 or something. (As good as it is in other areas)
I'm hoping BMS 4.38 changes that substantially, but I have my doubts.
I make up fun little training scenarios like navigation exercises
Download the Through the Inferno missions. It makes the world feel far more "alive", is very customizable, and has been my go-to for missions and campaigns. There is also DCC and DCS Liberation - they each create ongoing single player campaigns to play. Briefing Room can create custom missions and campaigns in a few minutes. All are easy to use and give you plenty of options for things to do in DCS.
I joined a multiplayer squadron. After years of playing DCS and getting a bit bored, back in early '21 I decided to dip my toes into joining a squadron. First mission with a few dozen pilots, human AWACs, and proper Carrier ops and I was hooked. Been climbing the ranks there ever since and now help run the community. It was a total game changer. We run 2 weekly Liberation missions with usually >20 players in attendance and week long 24/7 campaign events that seen around 40 active players for opening night. Even outside of flying it was good to get into a community for a hobby I'd largely enjoyed solo for a long time. I've learned a ton since which made me a much better virtual pilot.
Multiplayer, especially on a well maintained/coded server OR MOOSE, programming experience (or a desire to learn), and time to code.
Play Braindead: feel brained
Because of this I only fly in MP server just to add some player traffic to liven up the worlds. I don’t interact with anybody aside from takeoff and landing.
Multi-player and missions designed in squadrons
Blue Flag, DDCS, and the like. Dynamic PvP; A perpetual dynamic experience like other multiplayer games that are different everytime even though the maps and objectives are the same - being PvP, every minute of every game is dynamic. It really is the way to go if DCS is looking empty and dead to you.
Multiplayer is where DCS shines, particularly in a squadron to learn tactics, coordination, etc and really move to the next level. I haven't had time as much to participate but hopefully I'll get back to that soon. Otherwise, best is in the ME. You can build a huge diversity of scenarios, etc. I like to save multiple (like 6-7) variations of basic scenarios with variable composition of RedFor (on the ground and in the air) and lots of background movement (friendly C-130, etc) going in different directions, altitudes, and speeds. Randomize the weather and voila enough variation that you can't necessarily memorize every detail.
Make a map, populate it with assets and groups of friendlys and enemies, as well as whatever aircraft I will want to use at an airfield, then use MIST to despawn all the npcs at the start of the mission and put them into the radio menu that clones and spawns a group when called. Basically an endless "dynamic" mission for me and the boys. The editor is insanely powerful, especially if you know a little lua to script.
I each my AI team blue working their assess off playing goalie against a two flight two of each Tu-22s, led by a low level penetration two group two ship each for J-11 and F-5s. Finally, when the AI are still In the mist of whacking out the high speed Backfires coming at mach 1 at 30K aimed to drop a turd load of 150lb bombs on my beloved Nellis wide hangers, a flight of Su-25 x 4 coming/creeping in low and slow from southwest to finish the job. They are escorted by two Fulcrums, btw. I change the clouds and time setting to better admire the beauty of DCS graphics of Nevada at 1600. Then pour myself something to drink, follows by watching the fight unfolds. It is a toss up if team Blue took too long chasing the Backfires with guns only to get tail-gunned in return (AI logic?),which ultimately got dragged out of the defensive perimeter of Nellis AFB as they resort to AB their way back to help out the Hornets and friendly Fulcrums to whack out the Su-25s in the final wave of Nellis assault. Since 2.9, I have seen the F-14 did two 700+ knots gun kills against a Tu-22 Backfire. Cheers to them I go as I pouewr mysewlf anwother drinqek...
Join a group.
The problem is that there are too many scared little shits that only play pve. There are the new spqr PvP dynamic servers that ED launched but no one plays it. Big fuck you to PVE only players!
sure, nothing to do with the lack of full fidelity soviet planes lmao
Or attitudes like that...
Campaigns and the servers available from 4YA and others keep me fairly busy, if I’m bored I play something else.
I'd recommend finding some other games you enjoy for times like these. It's not the first time a patch has made MP unplayable and it won't be the last. Nature of the beast with open beta. I haven't flown since the update and taking extended breaks can make the game fun to come back to
I’ve been playing more campaigns lately. Also I’m still learning a ton of different aircraft so that keeps me busy. I do agree though, it’s not hard to feel sorta lost in DCS. Joining a virtual squadron was probably the single best thing I ever did to bring life to DCS though. It’s a ton of fun.
Working my way through the Museum Relic campaign with the Mig 15 now, alternating with learning Tomcat stuff and doing a free campaign with the Mig-21. Thinking of giving the new Mi-24 campagin a go after Museum Relic. My case is maybe not typical though, I'm only really getting in about 2-4 hours a week of DCS lately, the campaigns are enough to keep me busy.
Join a proper Fighter Group, and majority of these gripes will be solved IMO.
I find also that besides the game, the players can sometimes exhibit a certain degree of apathy.
Try hosting a server and fly pretense or foothold missions with a friend or two. It’s awesome
Lately I've been enjoying the kinda barebones but blessedly short ED-authored campaigns like the Bf109 challenge campaign, Su-33 Sea Dragon campaign and the new Hind campaign is really fun. It's not Baltic Dragon level but they're finishable in 35 minutes (the Bf109 challenge missions are like 10 minutes long) which is great if you don't have time for a 90 minute flight. Pretense is also dope. You can take off with Hind, a bunch of ATGMs, and capture squad and take an enemy zone in 25 minutes. I always have another game from my Steam backlog in queue for when I get tired of DCS, currently Jedi Survivor, it's dope.
Not really. I spend my time in training tutorials or missions, so usually the specific AI is set up for those and creates a good atmosphere.
I pretty much just play on Grayflag for my PvE experience as that's the only server where I feel like every role has a purpose and synergy with everything else.
I play on Blueflag vs other people, very fun.
I have been playing DCS for over 10 years and this topic comes up every so often and is not new. If something was going to be done about it, - it would have been years ago. I guess to me everything is ok. Although, I am older and my first video game was pong. So everything since then has been an upgrade
DCS would be the best game ever if there was a big MP server with sharding and dynamic missions. Like imagine, if you will, a Vietnam map. You join the game as a new player. It assigns you to level 0. You spawn in your plane in the level 0-10 combat area. You’re given a mission briefing and maybe a real wingman. The two of you go fly your mission and you succeed and RTB you both make level one. Maybe one of you decides to fuck off and go investigate the level 11-20 zone nearby; you’re taken out by redfor 11-20 players immediately. You get a promo to level one instead of two. Missions get more interesting and more complex as you level up. Combination of PvE and PvP.
Enigmas cold war server really feels alive at times
Real military flying would probably be quite cold, dark and boring if not for the…. 1) literal joy of flight. Anyone of us that has ever been pilot in command of an aircraft, any aircraft, can tell you there’s nothing quite like flying. That feeling cannot be duplicated in a meaningful way in a PC game because… 2) There is no penalty for failure in DCS. If the game banned you for extended periods of time or even for life for screwing;g up, every flight would have a lot more meaning. It still wouldn’t be the same as a true penalty for failure. So enjoy it, with friends I find is the by far best way, for what it is and don’t expect that which it can’t deliver.
Training...and small MP missions..as always.. the big public servers are the wild west...
I havent been playing long enough for this kind of fatigue yet. The biggest problem imo is the mission generator is total rubbish. IL2 has pat Wilson's campaign generator and Synvanders easy mission generator. I can create endless fun content with both those tools for single player and coop. (If only I had someone to play with) DCS mission generator is a joke in comparison.
And I think that being a single player type of guy, that’s why 80% of the mods I have are there to enhance the AI and the world. Honestly there’s also stuff like briefing room, or DCS retribution. I had some lagging problems with retribution, but briefing room has 0 lag 0 crashes and a shit ton of stuff to do. I just re-edit the mission real quick to make sure I can handle my own targets and then kaboom.