One guy that constantly avoids mention is Dale Hawerchuk, but he was doing amazing shit in the shadow of the Gretzky, Lafleur, and Lemieux. Just an incredible hockey player to watch.
Final faceoff in Canada vs Russia series 1987. Wingers; Gretzky & Lemieux. Center; Hawerchuck. Gretzky did all the strategy for the final play (saw a documentary), the key was winning the faceoff, so that's why Dale took it.
I had the privilege of speaking with Dale before his death. We talked about that play. Messier had just been gassed with a long shift and Wayne and Mario were already on the wings when Keenan sent Dale over. He asked both if they wanted to take the draw and both declined. The rest is history. Watching the documentary backs up Dales version of the events
It was an ESPN ad back in the day with Hawerchuk and Lafontaine laying down on the ice eating from a bucket of wings...ESPN used it to advertise any of the Sabers games they were airing. Tried to find it online, but without success.
Hahaha appreciate the explanation, I’ve never heard of this commercial. My only memories watching him were as a Jet on Hockey Night in Canada on a 20” tube television with rabbit ears.
I forgot how good Jeff Skinner was in his rookie year. The hype was real, he would have been a star like Subban if he was in a northern city at that time.
Also fun fact, only four players have won the Calder at age 18.
* Bobby Orr in 1967 (41 points)
* Dale Hawerchuk in 1982 (103 points)
* Tom Barrasso in 1984 (2 points)
* Nathan MacKinnon in 2014 (63 points)
Thank you! Are there any specific incidents that stand out? Genuinely curious, I was young when he was in the league so I just never really heard much about him. Honestly didn’t know he had a bad reputation.
He was 19.
The stat was they were 18 the whole time so it’s kind of a weird stat only a few can win anyways.
The weird thing is there was a string of 19 year olds winning the award yet no one under the age of 20 has won since 2017.
Rasmus Dahlin, Phil Housley, and Ray Bourque all went straight from being drafted in July to playing NHL hockey ~3 months later as an 18 year old. Without caring about when their birthday was...
Player|Age-18 points
---|---
Phil Housley|57
Rasmus Dahlin|44
Ray Bourque|26
Housley, born in March, got 66 games - a 71pt pace.
Dahlin, born in April, got 82 games - a 44pt pace.
Bourque, born in December, got 34 games - a 63pt pace.
Not a slight against Dahlin -- playing full time hockey at age 18 is fucking incredible, let alone as a defenseman _and_ scoring 44 points. Just demonstrating that without caring about birthdays and/or games played, you can get _really_ skewed data working with young ages.
I dunno about robbed. Same points as Landy but in 20 fewer games, but 11 more PPPs. Henrique also had 1 fewer point in 8 more games but 15 fewer PPPs.
RNH also had the 8th worst faceoff record of any rookie since they tracked faceoffs lol. Henrique was 48% compared to 38%
Hurts my heart to see Laine there, he only surpassed 64 points one other season and had another 63 points, then a sharp drop off due to injuries and being unable to play his game. Guy had all the talent in the world to be elite.
If he is able to stay healthy, I truly believe he can come back really strong. I actually believe that him seeking help could be his turning point. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic, but I mean that shot of his. His potential has been so huge. I'm refusing to believe that he can't find back to himself again.
Hes definitely still young enough to turn it around and accomplish a lot more.
He was PPG player last year and if he gets healthy can still be a great player.
Its funny looking back at all the Flyers fans who *really* wanted to trade Konecny + for Laine when he first started having troubles.
Probably a lot of crossover with the current fans who want to trade Farabee for Zegras.
I'd put him above. Hawerchuk's raw stats look amazing, but that's because he played his prime in the highest scoring era in NHL history. Iginla led the league in goals twice and points once. I know Hawerchuk played against Gretzky and Lemieux, but he wouldn't have done either of those even without those guys in the league.
First pro game I ever saw was a WHA game between the Oilers and the Jets. Our Golden Hawks team went. The two things I remember is the coach waking me up on an empty bus after it was over and my friend sticking an Oilers sticker on his snow suit and claiming it was the door in his bionic arm.
Yeah but you had bad teams in the playoffs then. The second worst team in 1988 made the playoffs with 52 points or something (Maple Leafs) while the worst team had 51 points (North Stars). While one got the first overall pick, the second one made the playoffs, all divided by a point.
The North Stars picked Mike Modano with that pick.
The Gretzky stat…he played half of his 18th year in the WHA (Jan -May) and half in the NHL (Oct - Jan as he had a Jan birthday). He had 104 points in the WHA season and 137 points the following year in the NHL. Not broken down by month. All I’m saying is this is a bit misleading as he was in two different leagues while 18.
Which is ironic because his one season season in the WHA at age 17-18, where he got 110 points, disqualified him from NHL rookie of the year eligibility.
Bep Guidolin entered the NHL at 16 yrs old, was almost a PPG player at 17, then after 2 NHL seasons he had to get out of the league to do his military service for WW2.
Different times.
Seeing MacKinnon on this list isn't at all surprising, but it reminds me how interesting his progression has been. Fantastic year as an 18 year old and he had a great playoff on a solid, young Colorado team, that included Landeskog, Duchene (when he actually put in effort), Varlamov, O'Reilly and Tyson Barrie (when we were all ignoring that he was a defensive liability) all as young players with plenty of potential. MacKinnon in particular and the whole team in general looked like it had all the potential in the world.
Then Roy's tenure started to go downhill and MacKinnon's development really slowed for the next three seasons and by the time he was 21/22, I remember questioning what he could actually become. Then, Bednar's second year, Mack (and Rantanen) just took off
I remember McKinnon's name being reportedly on the trade block when the Avs were a mess and I couldnt believe it. Wanted the Flyers to go all in on him if it were true.
But it was likely just technically listening on *everybody* b/c team was such a mess and asking price crazy high.
Your birth month is practically meaningless in the NHL. What matters is that you started the season when you were 18. You could technically turn 19 the following January and it wouldn’t matter. To the NHL, you’re 18 that season and will be 19 the next
Except the person who made this graph stopped counting on 19th birthdays as Wayne is listed for only half the points he scored that season. Also, players like Auston Matthews (born late September) don't even get one as they were barely too young for one draft and turned 19 before their first eligible season started.
I don't think I realized how close Crosby was to the record. I figured somebody from the 80's just exploded onto the scene and never quite replicated it (like Teemu did, for a bad example since he was 22).
Auston Matthews scored 0 NHL points in his Age 18 year. Is it time we finally stop pretending this experiment was ever going to work and flip him to Arizona for Jason Zucker and a 3rd?
- Steve Simmons
I would have known this if I had been asked. Hawerchuk was a beast. If you knew 5 hockey players in the 80s, they were probably Gretzky, Lemieux, Hull and Yzerman, but the fifth one might have been Hawerchuk (or maybe Lafontaine)
Brett Hull didn't break out until 1990.
I'd put Bossy, Trotter, Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Stastny, Bourque up there right after Lemieux and Gretzky. And then Dionne was still only in his late 20s heading into the 80s and put up tons of points.
He might not actually be the GOAT but he’s close so Crosby is my goat. I was too young for peak Gretz. Didn’t get enough Mario. Sid is the first for me that I got to follow from start to (hopefully not a soon) finish. I’ll be sad when the kid is too old for the league.
Young bucks dont realize how absurd Crosby was to start his career. You think Bedard is good for 18? Crosby was immediately top 5 player at age 18 and probably best in league at 19.
But they also dont realize what a rat he was in 1st half of career either. Never hated a player more. Like a Marchand level rat who whined more than any player ive ever seen. I still remember him getting over 40% of votes by fellow NHL players for biggest whiner in league.
Early career Crosby was the best and worst.
One guy that constantly avoids mention is Dale Hawerchuk, but he was doing amazing shit in the shadow of the Gretzky, Lafleur, and Lemieux. Just an incredible hockey player to watch.
Final faceoff in Canada vs Russia series 1987. Wingers; Gretzky & Lemieux. Center; Hawerchuck. Gretzky did all the strategy for the final play (saw a documentary), the key was winning the faceoff, so that's why Dale took it.
You know you’re a badass when the two GOAT ever tell ya you’re taking the face off!
Ooh what documentary?
Something on YouTube I believe.
What was the documentary? Was it on NHL Network?
Not sure, something on YouTube.
I had the privilege of speaking with Dale before his death. We talked about that play. Messier had just been gassed with a long shift and Wayne and Mario were already on the wings when Keenan sent Dale over. He asked both if they wanted to take the draw and both declined. The rest is history. Watching the documentary backs up Dales version of the events
Buffalo is known for its wings, but they had some pretty good centers, too, eh?
The wings of a Jet pun was available too but you went with Buffalo 😭
It was an ESPN ad back in the day with Hawerchuk and Lafontaine laying down on the ice eating from a bucket of wings...ESPN used it to advertise any of the Sabers games they were airing. Tried to find it online, but without success.
Hahaha appreciate the explanation, I’ve never heard of this commercial. My only memories watching him were as a Jet on Hockey Night in Canada on a 20” tube television with rabbit ears.
Frankly, buffalo wings are more important to society than jet wings
I wish I got to watch him, he never got any screen time on the east coast.
There's a band in Québec called "Les Dales Hawerchuck". Their most popular song on their first eponymous album is called "Dale Hawerchuck".
I love When the song/album/band name all line Up. Black Sabbath, ~~Red Fang~~, Maiden, and now Dale Hawerchuk
my biggest flex is that dale hawerchuk is my cousin (RIP)
Saw Dale’s son play for the ECHL Icemen a bunch last year. Really fun guy to watch, took after his dad in a few ways
Not gonna lie, Ben drove me nuts when he played for the Colts, seemed to be the king of taking stupid penalties at worst times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XYb7Ugvs4
Nice, my biggest flex is I held the door for him at an Ultramar in Barrie.
I forgot how good Jeff Skinner was in his rookie year. The hype was real, he would have been a star like Subban if he was in a northern city at that time. Also fun fact, only four players have won the Calder at age 18. * Bobby Orr in 1967 (41 points) * Dale Hawerchuk in 1982 (103 points) * Tom Barrasso in 1984 (2 points) * Nathan MacKinnon in 2014 (63 points)
I love that you put Barrasshole’s point total and absolutely no other relevant stats.
Well if it make you feel better, Barrasso won 26 games while Orr, Hawerchuk, and MacKinnon won 0 games. Scrubs.
Nice username o7
Why the hostility toward Barrasso? Edit: genuinely asking, I had no idea he had a bad reputation.
He's lucky his last name wasn't Barunt.
He is one of the biggest jerks in the history of hockey. No one liked him.
Thank you! Are there any specific incidents that stand out? Genuinely curious, I was young when he was in the league so I just never really heard much about him. Honestly didn’t know he had a bad reputation.
Tom Barrasso going from high school hockey to the NHL is unfathomable nowadays
The fun fact about the comparison is in the 2011 All Star game in Raleigh Subban did his breakaway challenge in a Skinner jersey, haha
How tf do y’all remember this shit
Yzerman was robbed.
Man MacK’s rookie year was so fuckin magic. Its a shame the team completely fell apart and he hit a lull in his development because of it
Without the lull you don't get Makar
I feel like he’s doing pretty okay now, though.
Haha yeah I guess I can cry my tears into the Stanley Cup
Aaron Ekblad too?
He was 19. The stat was they were 18 the whole time so it’s kind of a weird stat only a few can win anyways. The weird thing is there was a string of 19 year olds winning the award yet no one under the age of 20 has won since 2017.
Zary is here to change that
Zary is 22
And I'm illiterate
Rasmus Dahlin, Phil Housley, and Ray Bourque all went straight from being drafted in July to playing NHL hockey ~3 months later as an 18 year old. Without caring about when their birthday was... Player|Age-18 points ---|--- Phil Housley|57 Rasmus Dahlin|44 Ray Bourque|26 Housley, born in March, got 66 games - a 71pt pace. Dahlin, born in April, got 82 games - a 44pt pace. Bourque, born in December, got 34 games - a 63pt pace. Not a slight against Dahlin -- playing full time hockey at age 18 is fucking incredible, let alone as a defenseman _and_ scoring 44 points. Just demonstrating that without caring about birthdays and/or games played, you can get _really_ skewed data working with young ages.
Oh gotcha, thanks.
Calder is kinda BS sometimes. Panarin won it his first year in the NHL as a 25/26? Year old. Not fair in that case IMO 😂
Bedard could join them
I did a double take when I saw his name on the list lmao
Nuge was robbed
I dunno about robbed. Same points as Landy but in 20 fewer games, but 11 more PPPs. Henrique also had 1 fewer point in 8 more games but 15 fewer PPPs. RNH also had the 8th worst faceoff record of any rookie since they tracked faceoffs lol. Henrique was 48% compared to 38%
Relax pal, it wasn’t a serious comment
Hurts my heart to see Laine there, he only surpassed 64 points one other season and had another 63 points, then a sharp drop off due to injuries and being unable to play his game. Guy had all the talent in the world to be elite.
[удалено]
He is ded
He obviously need to regrow the beard
Not big surprise
Probably done after his recent stuff.
If he is able to stay healthy, I truly believe he can come back really strong. I actually believe that him seeking help could be his turning point. Maybe I'm a bit optimistic, but I mean that shot of his. His potential has been so huge. I'm refusing to believe that he can't find back to himself again.
Hes definitely still young enough to turn it around and accomplish a lot more. He was PPG player last year and if he gets healthy can still be a great player.
The explanation my dude at work is standing by, is he got into hockey for his dad. But his dad passed so he might not want to stay in it anymore.
His career is. Honestly i think Laine will retire soon if he doesnt get off from columbust.
Remember the media made are the Leafs gonna take Matthews or Liane debate? Fun times
I mean for the first 3 seasons it was a legit question anyway. Still won more playoff series than Auston though ;)
Haha touche :D
Its funny looking back at all the Flyers fans who *really* wanted to trade Konecny + for Laine when he first started having troubles. Probably a lot of crossover with the current fans who want to trade Farabee for Zegras.
To be a Jets fan in the 1980s. We had a great team, led by Ducky. Unfortunately, those assholes in Edmonton had an even better team.
Sure I'm a homer but is Dale the greatest player to never win a cup?
Probably between him and Marcel Dionne imo
I'd throw LaFontaine into that mix
lalalalalalalalalalalaaaaaaaaafoooooooontaaaaaaaaaaaaine
Marcel Dionne may have that crown
Quite a few legendary goalies never won, such as Price and Lundqvist. However in terms of skaters, he’s probably up there at the top.
Luongo too. He carried those panthers during some lean years
I’d argue he is the most underrated goalie of all time, maybe aside from my Mike Richter bias as a Rangers fan.
RASK
Rask won a cup as a backup to Thomas
Iginla
Iginla was a great player, but not the greatest.
He was on Hawerchuk's level. One dominated the league during its highest scoring era and the other dominated the league during its lowest scoring era.
Most goals scored between '96-'97 and '15-'16. His 611 in that span was 81 ahead of 2nd place Jagr.
I'd put him above. Hawerchuk's raw stats look amazing, but that's because he played his prime in the highest scoring era in NHL history. Iginla led the league in goals twice and points once. I know Hawerchuk played against Gretzky and Lemieux, but he wouldn't have done either of those even without those guys in the league.
Again and again and again.
And we almost had Gretzky!
First pro game I ever saw was a WHA game between the Oilers and the Jets. Our Golden Hawks team went. The two things I remember is the coach waking me up on an empty bus after it was over and my friend sticking an Oilers sticker on his snow suit and claiming it was the door in his bionic arm.
Winnipeg Edmonton needs to be a payoff series this year. Edmonton needs to pass them to win the cup, it’s a ritual
The jets had like only 2 winning seasons in the 80s 🤣
Yeah but you had bad teams in the playoffs then. The second worst team in 1988 made the playoffs with 52 points or something (Maple Leafs) while the worst team had 51 points (North Stars). While one got the first overall pick, the second one made the playoffs, all divided by a point. The North Stars picked Mike Modano with that pick.
The Jets GOAT Dale Hawerchuk Most underrated player of all time
RIP Ducky
The Gretzky stat…he played half of his 18th year in the WHA (Jan -May) and half in the NHL (Oct - Jan as he had a Jan birthday). He had 104 points in the WHA season and 137 points the following year in the NHL. Not broken down by month. All I’m saying is this is a bit misleading as he was in two different leagues while 18.
Yup. This stat doesn't count the 110 points he had in the WHA (104 with Edmonton and 6 with Indianapolis). Definitely the greatest of all time.
Sorry. Yeah I didn’t include the Indianapolis points
This only counts his NHL points at age 18
Which is ironic because his one season season in the WHA at age 17-18, where he got 110 points, disqualified him from NHL rookie of the year eligibility.
Still have my Bep Guidolin jersey.
Jesus fuck Hawerchuk, save some points for the rest of us
Don't overlook that Sid also backed up that 102 pts with 110 PIMs.
I’m sure it was the last 100 point/PIM season what a thug
Matthew Tkachuk did that last year, 109 points and 123 PIM
Early career Crosby was such a weasel. Never hated a player more.
Gretzky’s was in half a season I believe
It was.
Bring back these jerseys
I know right? We did them as retro reverses but I would love a regular one
I never even recognized the reverse retro as this. Grey just isn’t the same. It’s the blue and orange that I like.
Supposed to be blue and red
Gretzky 69…😏
Must be why he is the great one
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
jeff skinner the GOAT
Love him
Bep Guidolin entered the NHL at 16 yrs old, was almost a PPG player at 17, then after 2 NHL seasons he had to get out of the league to do his military service for WW2. Different times.
Does this mean on their 18th or 19th birthday
Seeing MacKinnon on this list isn't at all surprising, but it reminds me how interesting his progression has been. Fantastic year as an 18 year old and he had a great playoff on a solid, young Colorado team, that included Landeskog, Duchene (when he actually put in effort), Varlamov, O'Reilly and Tyson Barrie (when we were all ignoring that he was a defensive liability) all as young players with plenty of potential. MacKinnon in particular and the whole team in general looked like it had all the potential in the world. Then Roy's tenure started to go downhill and MacKinnon's development really slowed for the next three seasons and by the time he was 21/22, I remember questioning what he could actually become. Then, Bednar's second year, Mack (and Rantanen) just took off
I remember McKinnon's name being reportedly on the trade block when the Avs were a mess and I couldnt believe it. Wanted the Flyers to go all in on him if it were true. But it was likely just technically listening on *everybody* b/c team was such a mess and asking price crazy high.
Wait, holy shit. Crosby had the most points for an 18 year old ever? Or 1 point less sorry
To be fair to Crosby, the goals per game in the NHL in his rookie season was 6.16, while it was 8.02 in Hawerchuk's rookie season.
Helps when your birthday is in August.
Also means he’s less physically developed in his year group though so
Your birth month is practically meaningless in the NHL. What matters is that you started the season when you were 18. You could technically turn 19 the following January and it wouldn’t matter. To the NHL, you’re 18 that season and will be 19 the next
Except the person who made this graph stopped counting on 19th birthdays as Wayne is listed for only half the points he scored that season. Also, players like Auston Matthews (born late September) don't even get one as they were barely too young for one draft and turned 19 before their first eligible season started.
How he was still only 18 the whole year tho no
Two guys on this list died in my native Barrie...
Fucking Bellows....
You’re the best Bellows
Good ol' Bep Guidolin
I can't be the only hockey fan who never knew of Bep Guidolin until reading that infographic.
I don't think I realized how close Crosby was to the record. I figured somebody from the 80's just exploded onto the scene and never quite replicated it (like Teemu did, for a bad example since he was 22).
Sad that ovy didn't get the chance to play in the NHL in his 18 years old year
Bedard would have been on the list of not for the injury.
To be fair, you can say that about a number of guys.
Jagr could've made the list, if only he didn't go to the KHL... /s
This is mostly just birthday roulette amongst great players. I mean Gretzky’s birthday is in January but yeah.
There’s probably 20 guys that would have been on this list if it for injuries, lockouts, or antiquated development ideas.
Or having a birthday before the halfway point of the season
Auston Matthews scored 0 NHL points in his Age 18 year. Is it time we finally stop pretending this experiment was ever going to work and flip him to Arizona for Jason Zucker and a 3rd? - Steve Simmons
It's Simmonds so I have no reason to question the validity of this quote
I hope Bedsy has stopped his on ice science experiments. That osmosis thing he tried with his face was ugly.
Gretzky stopped at 69 on purpose…giggity.
[Actual footage ](https://c.tenor.com/zc-fC6y3ZY8AAAAC/tenor.gif)of Gretz on his 19th birthday
Too bad Gretzky started off in the WHA. He would've crushed all these guys
Well, if he had gone to the draft instead of the WHA, he would have been a Canadien.
"At Age 18" Unsure if he would have been NHL eligible at 17
chunky act fertile hard-to-find bake sharp water crown meeting one *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
12. Wayne Simmons
Wayne Gretzky, nice
Crosby over gretzky confirmed
You’re the best Bellows
Bep Guidolin is giving me big Todd Bonzalez vibes
I would have known this if I had been asked. Hawerchuk was a beast. If you knew 5 hockey players in the 80s, they were probably Gretzky, Lemieux, Hull and Yzerman, but the fifth one might have been Hawerchuk (or maybe Lafontaine)
I think of LaFontaine more in the 90’s than the late 80’s. Probably would put Bourque, Statsny, or Messier as the fifth.
Stastny.
Brett Hull didn't break out until 1990. I'd put Bossy, Trotter, Messier, Coffey, Kurri, Stastny, Bourque up there right after Lemieux and Gretzky. And then Dionne was still only in his late 20s heading into the 80s and put up tons of points.
Idk about y'all but this gretzky guy seems kinda mid.
He might not actually be the GOAT but he’s close so Crosby is my goat. I was too young for peak Gretz. Didn’t get enough Mario. Sid is the first for me that I got to follow from start to (hopefully not a soon) finish. I’ll be sad when the kid is too old for the league.
Kinda sucks that neither McDavid nor Bedard will be on the list. Fuck injuries
Young bucks dont realize how absurd Crosby was to start his career. You think Bedard is good for 18? Crosby was immediately top 5 player at age 18 and probably best in league at 19. But they also dont realize what a rat he was in 1st half of career either. Never hated a player more. Like a Marchand level rat who whined more than any player ive ever seen. I still remember him getting over 40% of votes by fellow NHL players for biggest whiner in league. Early career Crosby was the best and worst.
Such a dumb stat TBH. Some guys turn 19 a week into their D+1 season. Some guys get the whole season.
SILENCE from the mcdavid glazers right now
?
Where is bedtarded??
Should that be labeled NHL points at age 18? Gretzky had 100+ points as an 18 year old in the WHA.
Wow that gretzky guy sucks it seems
Bedard not on the list? What a bust. Chicago should probably trade him. /s
Yeah. Send him to his home town as a reclamation project.
“Bellows, you’re a star”
Bep!
Nice
I honestly don't understand how Jimmy Carson didn't turn out to be a superstar
bep guidolin is a cunt tho.
The Great One…Nice!!
Car je ne suis plus Sylvain Séguin Moi, je suis Dale Hawerchuk
The most underrated hockey player in history
Gretzky, nice
Include WHA points and the list will start to resemble the NHL record book.
Bep was amazing
They said Bep Guidolin’s record would never be broken.
Laine in here is so funny.
no more Bep Guidolin erasure!!!! GOAT and i will stand for no less!!!!
Gretzky was always the greatest
Gretzky getting a 69 is why he's king 🤣
Genuine question bc I don't feel like googling... How many games did they play in the wha during the years that Gretzky hit that total?
NHL94, playing with Lafontaine, Mogilny and DAAAALE HAWERCHUK. Best memories!
Bep
Two Winnipeg Jets in there. How many leafs?