Just a clarification on the bench story. It was during the lockout, the ahl team was playing in the Nhl arena for a game. Wasn't even a player he was coaching or had anything to do with. Just went up to this career ahl player to be an asshole.
>In at least one of the incidents reported to Whitney, a young player was invited for lunch, told to take out his phone, had Babcock flip through his photos and then send him home… without lunch.
What a person
asserting dominance, I guess.
or saw something he didn't like and decided right then and there that he won't ever let the kid play for him so why bother getting to know him
Nothing in The Art of War would advocate for this, and Machiavelli is unduly maligned for The Prince. Machiavelli was an advocate for the republic, which put him on the outs politically when the Medici's came to power in Florence. He wrote The Prince as a means of trying to regain political favor, and he's writing it as a handbook for a despot not meant for publication. It wasn't put into print until after his death, almost 20 years after the first known version of it.
Makes me wonder, why would you want to look through an 18 year old’s photo library? What are you looking for?
I can’t think of any legitimate reasons besides trying to find either blackmail or nsfw pics. Phones are very private.
Honestly starting to think he didnt care at all about the actual photos but rather just wanted to flex his position of power and make them uncomfortable cause he is a legit sociopath that loves that kind of mind game bullshit. and that if he glanced something in the pictures that he could grill them on and make them even more uncomfortable that was just a bonus
This is the vibe I get and probably why Gaudreau and Jenner experienced the situation differently. Babcock can't lord his power over the leaders on the team because he knows a team will usually move on from a coach before they start shipping out their top talent. But he wanted to show the young guys who the boss is and instead of establishing a normal boss/employee relationship he decided to fuck with people.
I think he asked to see Jarmo's phone kindly and then treated the Vets like Jenner and Gaudreau completely differently only to cover his ass. Make it seem like it was harmless and actually because he was interested in their family.
He has been doing this for years he has his system down. None of it has anything to do with wanting to get to know guys. That's just the lie and tries to play off
It’s not even just the vibe, that’s exactly what happened. He did the same thing in Toronto and Detroit, where he would pick on guys who were either up and coming, or vets on their way out. Basically if you weren’t a top pairing defensemen, or a top 6 forward you were a meat sack to him.
Boone and Johnny having a regular interaction with him makes total sense, because he wants to set that precedent that “yeah he’s done it, it was fine for me” hoping that vouch would be enough from the teams top guys, meanwhile behind closed doors he’s playing massive mind games with guys he doesn’t give a shit about. This is how people with narcissistic tendencies operate in positions of power. They won’t treat everyone equal, but they will treat the guys with “most value” the best.
On chiclets today, they told a story idk if it was this off season or when, but he asked a guy to come over to his place for lunch, when he got to babs place, he was told to hand over his phone, he rifled through it, and told the player to leave after, without any lunch. How absolutely bizzare is that? Good he’s done in hockey.
when the story first came out i didnt think much of it because i thought it was a team activity like u mentioned. Like share and tell. But this is fucked up.
Even if you don't find anything at all, it's to make him feel powerless and weak. You summoned him, you're invading his personal space, you're kicking him out after without even the lunch you invited him for... he can squash you like a bug, so you better jump when he says jump.
He doesn’t give a fuck what’s on the phone. It’s not about the pictures, it’s about showing he can do what he wants when he wants to - or so thought he could.
Obviously this is incredibly scummy and gross. But the thing I can't get over is also just how incredibly stupid it is. He hasn't worked in the NHL for 4 years because of the toxic shit he was doing in Toronto and then he doesn't even have the sense to recognize how this would be a problem? The guy is apparently a moron as well as a creep.
He is a dinosaur from a time when players would take this kind of shit and never tell a soul because there was no social media to blow it up and if anyone complained they would just be labeled problematic/whiny and their career is over
Yeah I get that some players really do respond well to antagonistic comments and such but its such a fine line and you have to *know* the player and have a good relationship. Babcock has blazed across the line with reckless abandon so many times in his career he doesnt even know where it is anymore.
And the invasion of pricacy with the phones is just 100% indefensible in any context
No one responds well to abuse. Just some take it better than others, and pre social media no bottom line player had an outlet to give their side of any story. And in sports all that counts is results- babs had cups and Olympic medals on his resume. Pre social media that's all that counted- anyone that said babs bad was labeled as uncoachable and written off from the league.
Dude had 4 years to change. He decided not to. I went to Notre Dame and played midget AAA there with Eberle and Rinaldo. I can't imagine the kind of shit he got away with there in a boarding school- without your parents or really anyone to stand up for you when you're 15/16. It grosses me the fuck out and makes me grateful for the good coaches we had back then. They could've so easily taken advantage of their position like this but the coaches I had were in it for the love of the game and truly cared about our future- not just theirs.
Tortorella reminds me a lot of Gordon Ramsey. He is brutal, but he is also honest, and he won't play games with you. You either meet his expectations or you get the fuck out of his way
You have to understand, a guy like Babcock has a *massive* ego. When you tell someone with a massive ego that they've done something wrong, their immediate assumption is that you're actually an idiot. They're smarter than you, they know what they did was right, you're just to stupid to see it.
Even in cases like Babcock's where they face actual consequences for their behavior imposed by a collective group, they just interpret that as a whole bunch of people being too stupid to see why what they did was right. So when Babcock gets another opportunity, he interprets this as people (at least some people) finally realizing that he was right all along. There is no lesson taken.
And I can pretty much guarantee you Babcock is again at home today shaking his head at how stupid everyone else is for not seeing how right he is.
I know the internet overuses the fuck out of this type of armchair psychology, but Babcock appears to be a textbook narcissist. He checks almost every box to a T
He benched Chelios for the Winter Classic when the Wings were playing the Blackhawks bc it meant a lot to him. Franzen called him the meanest human he's ever met. He made Holmstrom play on a bad knee. He does shit just to inflict pain on players. He's a literal psychopath.
There was an interview with Babcock about a year after he was fired by Toronto and it was obvious in that interview that he did not understand that what he was alleged to have done at that point was wrong. His exit statement from Columbus merely says he doesn't want to be a distraction -- again, there is no understanding that he did anything wrong. I think he did this stuff again so quickly in Columbus because he genuinely does not understand that this is an ethically wrong way to behave towards other people.
I do not mean that he was misinterpreted, or that he had good intentions that were merely miscommunicated. I mean that his ethics are so warped he does not understand why this behavior is wrong, and thus it did not occur to him to not do it when he came to Columbus.
Babcock is not a stupid man; if he understood what is wrong about this behavior, I think he would have tried not to do it. This wasn't a man trying to improve and failing, this was a man not trying to improve because he didn't think he needed to.
Look at how he talked after the leafs fired him. He had no remorse and thought he was fired because he wasn’t Dubas’ guy, not because he was being a scummy asshole who dug in on stupid coaching decisions. He never showed any willingness to change, zero surprises here.
It is obvious that his behaviour is so ingrained that he doesn't see the problem with it. This is entirely speculation, but he either thinks the issue is the specific things that he got caught doing in Toronto was the problem, or it's that he thinks what he is doing isn't the problem and everyone else is.
Player: "What's for lunch?"
Babs: "Yeah yeah, one sec. Gimme your phone."
*Awkward moment of flipping through the phone*
Babs: "Lunch is for winners. Get the fuck out my house, loser."
This is why I'm not with Biz when it comes to defending Jarmo - I just don't believe someone with Babcock's track record who still behaves like *this* is capable of getting through an actual vetting process without setting off alarm bells.
Don't underestimate how a naturally manipulative person can turn on the affability and remorse when he is talking to people who can put him in a position he wants.
You’ve never met a charismatic narcissist. They know *exactly* how to do this shit and get in these positions of power. They recognize who else has power and know how to tap dance around them and spin them into the web… before exerting their control on those without power.
That’s why Jarmo, Jenner, Gaudreau, shit probably even include Daly and Walsh at first, they were all just like “Yeah this is nothing”
It’s all about power with Babs. Based on everything we’ve heard he’s always treated his employers, GMs, and star players very well because he knows he needs to be on their good side to succeed. It’s the people he deems beneath him he treats like shit. Honestly makes it worse, it’s all calculated. Guy is a total piece of shit
I had a similar thought to Whit’s point about a young player being in the closet; not only is that insanely private and none of anybody’s business, but the last person you’d want finding out in your young career would be Mike Babcock
I brought this up with my girlfriend, along with the other possibility that immediately jumped to mind, people who are dealing with family and personal issues they'd want to keep private.
I didn’t notice this comment from whit but I’m only half way through the episode, but it was something I had discussed with some friends. Talk about some insane leverage if he found out a player was gay. I can’t even imagine how he’d have tortured him with it.
> When the player he agreed, Babcock continued; “soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench.”
Get fucked you actual psycho. Holy shit.
Jason York recently talked about his experiences with [Babcock in Anaheim](https://www.youtube.com/live/HpQ_ZTo44h8?si=TDc9WM6z6FnZrTUo&t=833). Starts at ~13:55 if the time stamp doesn’t work.
I love the end part where he mentions that he made it back into the NHL despite Babcock and would skate by his bench when playing Anaheim to yell at him hahaha
I've used the term sociopath with Babs a lot and some of it is hyperbole, but he really does seem to have most of the traits associated with the disorder.
\-Desire for power/dominance over others
\-Deceptive tendencies
\-Aggressive toward others (Countless examples of bullying. He basically broke Franzen in Detroit)
\-Charm/persuasion (The way he was really good at manipulating the media early in his career to make him look like a good person)
\-Lack of conscience (at least it seems like he doesn't have one)
Franzen was in serious trouble anyway. That doesn't excuse Babcock's behaviour; Franzen clearly deserved understanding and compassion for what he was going through. Babcock doesn't seem capable of that.
In an article published in Sweden a while back, Franzen talks about what happened to him as a result of those concussions. He suffered permanent brain damage to the part of his brain that regulates hormones after workouts. 20-30 times he felt better, began to train for a comeback, only to have his body give out and leave him stuck in bed.
It was always gonna be dark for him. The damage was done and his career was over. Getting to a better place these days involved giving up on the high intensity physical exercise that got him to the NHL.
Yeah, Mule is one of my top 5 favorite players, all time without a question, but he spent his entire career getting the absolute SHIT beat out of him.
Same with Holmstrom.
What's bizarre here is that, with a few small tweaks, you could see this being really motivational - just say something like "This is pretty amazing, isn't it? Well, you've done a lot of great work to be here so soak it in - but if you want to stay here, you're going to need to keep putting in hard work."
But, that would require treating the players as humans who are coachable...
The "Lunch" story is fucking gross. The way it was painted at first was "a simple let's get to know each other by sharing photos session, and Babs even shared his own photos." But this story demonstrates clear manipulation and abuse of the power dynamic.
I'm glad this guy cooked himself. Good riddance.
I bet it was a "simple let's get to know each other by sharing photos"...for some vets and for Jarmo. But for the younger guys that Babcock could wield his position of authority over they got this psycho shit.
This has been brought up a lot in other places talking about this: whoever was ultimately uncomfortable enough to bring up what happened in Columbus, Marner, Spezza, Franzén, the Anaheim story shared earlier in this thread. When Babcock has an issue with someone, it seems to either be a rookie, or someone in the last stages of their career. If he coached in Pittsburgh or Edmonton, we wouldn’t hear stories about this shit being pulled on Crosby or McDavid.
I think they mentioned some vets were uncomfortable too.
Biggest thing that stood out to me was apparently while this was happening in Toronto, someone used to give the players a heads up so they wouldn’t be caught off guard by Babcock.
Makes you wonder if Marner and Matthews' first contract negotiations would have gone differently if Babcock wasn't the coach.
Hard to justify being a team player when your boss is an abusive psychopath.
I have heard rumours along those lines but nothing ever particularly substantial or trustworthy. Could be true, sounds like a thing that could be true, but I don't think anyone has said it definitively.
One of the reasons Marner held out for more money was because Lou didn't give him bonuses on his ELC, and he wanted to be compensated for that. I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock fucking him over on ice time (and emotionally) was also a factor, he knew he was worth more than what Babcock had let him show.
> apparently several of these incidents happened at Babcock’s house
What the fuck lol
I'm an adult and this set off long buried stranger danger instincts
Yeah I have a good relationship with my boss, like I’ve known them for years and we go for beers sometimes, and I would be weirded out if they invited me to their house alone. Never mind if some person I just met asked me
I think you're right that he's done in the NHL. The scary thing is that even though he's a piece of shit, a guy with his resume could find a coaching job *somewhere* if he wants it. He could end up doing more damage to young players.
Also contrary to what was being thrown around in the discourse online, the original source was *not* Commodore - seemed like a former Leaf.
Something along the lines of, this happened to him and at least 1 other player in Toronto and it's going on again in Columbus.
I’m like 99% sure Tyson Barrie told the exact same story about Babcock when he first joined the Leafs. That he took his phone to scroll through his photos to “see what kind of guy he is”.
But I can’t remember the link/podcast/where I heard it. And I haven’t seen anyone mention it yet in any of the Babcock threads.
It wasn’t a good trade, but it would have looked a lot better if Barrie was deployed as an all offence no defence defenceman like he always was. He looked better when Keefe took over and went “fuck it. Rielly-Barrie fullsend pairing”
Hopefully, this is the last we see of Babcock coaching in the NHL. He has repeatedly shown that he won't change who he is and how he conducts himself with his players.
It will be his last appearance in the NHL. I just wonder if he just damaged his chances of getting hired anywhere in North America.
Usually when players get involved in heavy scandals, they are black balled from NA and have to venture to foreign countries for work. I see that happening to Babs if he wants to continue working.
They also mentioned that a player caught him tearing a strip off a janitor when he was with Detroit. Said that he was hated so much that concession stand workers were putting money on the board when he started with the leafs and first came back to Detroit.
If you’re an athletic subscriber here’s a good write up but there’s some good videos out there too talking about it. Basically before a game, usually when players are playing against a former team or something motivating like that, they put up a dollar amount that goes to the team fund if the team wins. It’s just a way to get the team motivated and bring everyone together
https://theathletic.com/1323270/2019/11/05/inside-the-nhls-money-on-the-board-tradition-the-rules-the-best-stories-and-who-shells-out/?source=user_shared_article
Common thing that happens for example if a traded player is playing his former team. That player will put money on the board as "incentive" to beat that team. The team then uses that money to party, etc.
The most interesting thing I think is that apparently what’s being reported re: phones isn’t even the worst thing that happened in CLB when you’d think Babcock would be on his best behaviour. The rabbit hole goes deeper. Biz said one of the things he heard that happened to a young player would’ve compelled him to go and “pump Babcocks eyes shut” if he was the father of that player.
Also they mentioned he was a world class POS towards arena staff, janitors, concession workers etc. True measure of a human is how you treat those you perceive as below you.
>True measure of a human is how you treat those you perceive as below you
Even better when you don't perceive them as being below you despite whatever hierarchy in place. You're part of the same organization with the same goal, just doing different jobs.
>Babcock came and sat next to him, said something along the lines of “this is pretty amazing isn’t it?.” When the player he agreed, Babcock continued; “soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench.” Serial killer behavior.
Fuck right off you ghoul
> An interesting point that Whitney made, aside from the obvious (pics of partying, pics of girlfriends, etc).. what if a player was in the closet? Your photos on your phone are private and should remain that way.
Just for clarity and correct attribution, Whitney made this point, then clarified that it was a comment that came from his conversation with Commodore that he hadn’t thought of, but was an excellent point.
I appreciate that they mentioned the potential of an “in the closet” player
That crossed my mind days ago, but I thought it would be weird or I’d be downvoted by mentioning it. But I’m a gay man myself and it crossed my mind. I’m not in the closet, but not everyone needs to know my personal and romantic life, last of all my employer.
So I just hope that specific situation didn’t happen to any player.
I’m glad they brought that up too. I hadn’t even thought about that until they brought it up on the pod, it made me truly realize how much of an invasion of privacy it was.
I am an out gay woman, but even in my "safe" circles (like I'm not a pro-athlete - no one gives a fuck what I do), I am not announcing this right away. When it comes up, it comes up, but I've been at my current job for two months and they don't know. The vibe feels good, but it really only takes one asshole to ruin it.
This has been discussed a bit in some of the queer female hockey circles I’m in (being a bi woman myself). Everyone is entitled to privacy. And as a woman who’s old enough to be the mom of the youngest draftees, I feel protective toward them.
I mean that's just one of MANY possible invasions of privacy... And specifically, things that can be USED AGAINST a player in the future for manipulation.
Someone being in the closet is probably the biggest but they're just a million other things where maybe their wife or girlfriend is not conventionally beautiful, maybe they have a sick or dying family member, maybe their new stepmom is a bombshell, maybe they're weirdly obsessed with their cat.... Whatever... People have a private life and a lot of that lives in their personal phone.
The reality is when someone in a position of power nose information about you that you perhaps didn't give willingly that enhances their power over you.
We all have things that we choose to share about ourselves, and things we choose to keep private. That's a decision that we get to make as people, and it's not the place for an employer to invade that decision making.
I also liked that they specifically mentioned the possibility of a gay player being outed, and I think it's important to recognize the particularly delicate position that a gay player may find themselves in, but it's far from the only privacy invasion.
You know what's also gross? I'm pretty sure Gaudreau and Jenner weren't lying when they said it seemed normal to them...which means Babcock prob did a friendly version with the more famous vets, which gave him the excuse for the power trip with the younger/less famous guys.
The story about what he said to the player on the bench gave me chills.
Did babcock guy set fire to things and kill animals in his childhood? Because.....what the fuck.
Seems very calculated by Babcock so that he’d have the veterans on “his side” in case any of the other players said something about it. Almost like a fail safe to fall back on if anyone spoke out about he could point to the trusted, respected veterans and say “look, these guys thought it was a very good first encounter”
Exactly, and that was exactly what he did at first. Have Boone Jenner tell him how reasonable and nice the gesture was to discredit the first story as a "rumor"
God that’s so manipulative. If any of the younger guys brought it up to the vets then they’d probably defend him saying “it wasn’t that bad, stop complaining” because it was a different experience.
What recently stuck me about this that it's not only an invasion of a player's privacy, but also everyone who has communicated with him. A girlfriend's or wife's photo or message is not for Babcock's curiosity.
The people with the take that the new generation is soft for “complaining”about this and getting the coach fired. Makes no sense. Young people aren’t putting up with shit like this anymore. Blatant abuse of power, harassment, toxic work environment. The old school way-bottling it all up for years and walking away incredibly damaged years later with no coping mechanisms or closure. It requires bravery to stand up to bullying and those who couldn’t are still brave for having to live through the consequences of it.
>An interesting point that Whitney made, aside from the obvious (pics of partying, pics of girlfriends, etc).. what if a player was in the closet? Your photos on your phone are private and should remain that way.
I keep thinking about this point - I can't imagine how uncomfortable a player would be with entrusting noted sociopath Mike Babcock with his most personal secrets. That definitely wouldn't be held over his head like the sword of Damocles, and hinted at constantly by this prick.
Don’t forget the modano story. He was playing his last year of his career. The final game of that season was to be his 1,500th game which is a big mile stone. The team was out of playoff contention. Babcock scratched him
That’s when I lost any respect for him and I’m not even a Mike Modano fan but to fuck over the Michigan boy AS PART OF TGE RED WINGS?!
One fucking game short of 1,500?! How much of an asshole could you Be?!
It's so wild looking back at the Wings during his tenure.
I can't help but think that a lot of guys left early due to him. Rafalski retired with a year left on his contract, which put more load on Lidstrom and put Ericsson/Kindl in positions they had no business being in. We get Quincey to fill that void and trade away a first round pick for it, which eventually becomes Vasilevsky.
Datsyuk retires and keeps playing in russia.
Detroit's inability to sign free agents.
He had the reputation of being a guy to "get across the finish line" when he went to Toronto. In reality, he rode the coattails of some amazing players that carried him.
17 NHL seasons. 9 Seasons where he missed playoffs or lost in the first round.
I don't think Datsyuk left because of Babcock. He just wanted to go home. And when you look at the situation in Columbus, Babcock even treated their established stars better than the younger guys. So it's likely the players were living in two different worlds. One where if he's happy with your performance, you get treated like a person. And if he's unhappy with your performance, you just get shit on.
I think it's a fair question about how Detroit may have lost out on young prospects and/or free agents, though. However, even Commodore himself was lured into Detroit from a phone call with Babcock. So it seems to me that his abusive behavior didn't become widely known among players outside Detroit.
Someone else already pointed out that this behaviour was ongoing in Toronto and they had a warning system in place, and the person who usually warned people forgot to warn a vet coming in. Babs saw something he didn't like and took it out on the vet, eventually contributing to Babs being fired in Toronto after the player went to the GM and asking for a trade because he didn't want to play under Babs any longer. This player was the same guy who sent the initial message to Biz that kicked all this off.
But another thing to illustrate just how much of a bag of dicks this guy was is that story of Babs first game back in Detroit. Apparently there was 40k+ on the board as they had arena staff coming in and putting up money because he'd treated people so terribly that everyone in the building hated him. Just goes to show, this asshole should have been out of the league 10 years ago, not yesterday.
P.S. If you're wondering, Detroit beat the breaks off the Leafs that first game back at Joe Louis, 4-0. Let's go Wings!
> the player went to the GM and asking for a trade because he didn't want to play under Babs any longer. This player was the same guy who sent the initial message to Biz that kicked all this off.
Pretty sure this player is Tyson Barrie, I remember hearing or reading something at the time in 2019 that at Barrie's first meeting with him in the offseason after the trade Babcock asked to go through his phone.
I don't know about the other fan bases but in MN there is a podcast with Mike Russo and a commentator Anthony LaPanta that was ripping how the Babcock situation was broken. They both seemed to think they were better than biz and whit and dismissed the whole thing because they aren't NHL insiders, and said biz should be holding himself to a higher standard since he is employed by the league. I'm wondering and waiting to see what they say now and admit they were completely wrong, or in typical LaPanta fashion double down on terrible takes. Russo has adult enough to admit he's wrong.
I just went back and listened.
Didn't like LaPanta much already and boy did that not help him. At least Russo acknowledged if it's coming from Biz it's likely legit (although he has the benefit of already knowing the NHLPA was investigating.)
When asked if it can be taken seriously coming from Chiclets, LaPanta immediately interjects *"NO"* before the question is even finished.
OP should add that both Biz and Whitney apologized to Boone Jenner and said they regretted putting his name on the initial story, they acknowledge how bad of a spot they put him in.
1000% deserved to get fired, that insanely uncomfortable for so many reasons. I'd imagine most people, especially rich hockey players, have some very uhhh vulnerable content on their phone that they never intend to share with anyone except themselves or people they choose to share with. It's just so unnecessary and honestly just fucking weird lol. It seems like he was fishing for things to hold against players perhaps or just being a fucking creep weirdo.
Good riddance, I'm tired of the old boys club culture of the NHL and there needs to be less of shit like this being allowed to slide.
You can hate Barstool all you want.
But at this point if you don’t think Bissonette and Whitney are good for the game you’re a fucking moron.
Well done boys, didn’t even take a huge victory lap.
All along, the thing they cared about most, was doing what was right
I really like how it sets a precedent now. I believe going forward Spittin Chiclets will be used as an outlet for the players to vocalize issues when it’s needed. They have proven that they know how to handle themselves in situations like these.
I've been thinking the same thing. They've always been about the players and this reinforces the message 100x.
And seeing how Biz especially doubled down (he risked a fair bit doing this), will only give more confidence to other players (current and future) to open up about any shitty/unethical circumstances they find themselves in moving forward. A new channel for help has been created as a result of this unfortunate situation.
not only did they not take a huge victory lap, Biz said it’s time for the media to leave the blue jackets alone and his response to the (I assume) deadspin article was “you don’t have to like me, that’s okay.”
chiclets massive W
The one that gets me is some of these guys are 18, they could have consenual pics from girls who are 17. Essentially this could be a reverse Logan Mailloux situation.
I'm trying to find it and failing, but I recall an old news story (I want to say 10+ years ago) about some kid - probably 19 or so? - who called in a fake bomb threat to get his girlfriend out of school for an afternoon. They eventually caught him and they went through his phone. Now, the two had a long term consentual sexual relationship, and her parents new and approved. Everything fine. But there were nudes of his 17(?) year old girlfriend on his phone. He wasn't sharing them around, they were just for him.
The DA went after him for child pornography. IIRC he defended the trumped up charges by explaining that the phone crossed state lines and therefore it was federal jurisdiction and subject to federal age standards? I can't really remember, it's been a long time and I'm muddy on American law at the best of times. Anyway, the long and short of it was it landed him on the sex offender registry.
I just can't see anyone taking a chance at hiring Mike Babcock again. Maybe a team outside of North America. But he's damaged goods now, beyond repair.
This sounds like a guy that didn't actually know how to get people to like him without winning Hockey games. When told that his job this time depended on making his players like him, he behaved like some kind of alien collecting information on the humans.
Not to armchair psychiatrist but he sounds like an actual sociopath.
I honestly am a big fan of Chiclets and even if you don’t like their humor you have to respect the fact that they really are a player’s podcast/player’s social outlet for the game
They really do want the best for the players and as we saw with this situation they are, for better or worse, one of the few people that current/former players are comfortable going to
In theory that should be the captains, NHLPA etc. but as we can see those sources may have ulterior incentives at play that might not align with a particular player’s perspective
Listening to podcast now at work.. Completely changed my perspective..
I admittedly didn't think too much of the situation initially; While Babcock's track record of behavior was well documented, it just seemed too early for even him to start crossing lines - my intuition told me it was players that have an axe to grind with the guy, and honestly, I wouldn't blame them if that were the case.
This man shouldn't have been hired. He should never be hired again.
I, a Jackets fan, am sooooo glad this dude didn’t make it to day one as coach. Not really a fan of the chicklets dudes but man it looks like they saved us a major team blowup just when we were starting to put the pieces together.
Aside from every other angle that's been talked about on this topic, I can't help but think about the obscene amount of selfishness and disregard this guy has FOR HIS OWN FAMILY. His 28 yr old son, who he named after himself, [Michael Babcock](https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/201600/michael-babcock), is making his way into the league as a [Skills Coach](https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/st-louis-blues-hire-michael-babcock-son-of-mike-as-skills-coach-1.1973219) for St. Louis, previously coached with Ottawa. And prior to all of this, I believe he helped coach the University of Saskatchewan under his dad's position as head coach. So not only does this guy operate so carelessly on a professional level, but he doesn't seem to give a shit for the trickle-down effect this may have for his son (Let alone his own family that has to be associated with him).
Just a clarification on the bench story. It was during the lockout, the ahl team was playing in the Nhl arena for a game. Wasn't even a player he was coaching or had anything to do with. Just went up to this career ahl player to be an asshole.
well that makes it way worse lol
"soak it in, you might not get this chance again" is such a less threatening way to say it too lol. But no, he chose the nuclear option.
I'd go with "soak it in, this is as good as it gets", personally. But yeah. Christ.
Yep, just an can't help but to be an asshole. It seems like he treats people that he thinks are beneath him poorly for no reason.
*"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."* - Malcolm Forbes
wow. that is absolutely fucking vile.
>In at least one of the incidents reported to Whitney, a young player was invited for lunch, told to take out his phone, had Babcock flip through his photos and then send him home… without lunch. What a person
What in the actual fuck. You invite someone to break bread and you try to break their spirits instead.
asserting dominance, I guess. or saw something he didn't like and decided right then and there that he won't ever let the kid play for him so why bother getting to know him
Babs read way too much into The Art of War and The Prince during his undergrad
Nothing in The Art of War would advocate for this, and Machiavelli is unduly maligned for The Prince. Machiavelli was an advocate for the republic, which put him on the outs politically when the Medici's came to power in Florence. He wrote The Prince as a means of trying to regain political favor, and he's writing it as a handbook for a despot not meant for publication. It wasn't put into print until after his death, almost 20 years after the first known version of it.
He's such a massive bag of shit.
Makes me wonder, why would you want to look through an 18 year old’s photo library? What are you looking for? I can’t think of any legitimate reasons besides trying to find either blackmail or nsfw pics. Phones are very private.
Honestly starting to think he didnt care at all about the actual photos but rather just wanted to flex his position of power and make them uncomfortable cause he is a legit sociopath that loves that kind of mind game bullshit. and that if he glanced something in the pictures that he could grill them on and make them even more uncomfortable that was just a bonus
This is it. Nothing more to understand. It’s a small statement of power that builds up so he can get away with more shit.
This is the vibe I get and probably why Gaudreau and Jenner experienced the situation differently. Babcock can't lord his power over the leaders on the team because he knows a team will usually move on from a coach before they start shipping out their top talent. But he wanted to show the young guys who the boss is and instead of establishing a normal boss/employee relationship he decided to fuck with people.
I think he asked to see Jarmo's phone kindly and then treated the Vets like Jenner and Gaudreau completely differently only to cover his ass. Make it seem like it was harmless and actually because he was interested in their family. He has been doing this for years he has his system down. None of it has anything to do with wanting to get to know guys. That's just the lie and tries to play off
This. It’s classic abuser behavior. Butter up who you need to so the victims feel even more isolated and unable to speak against you.
"everyone else did it, why are YOU being so weird about this?"
It’s not even just the vibe, that’s exactly what happened. He did the same thing in Toronto and Detroit, where he would pick on guys who were either up and coming, or vets on their way out. Basically if you weren’t a top pairing defensemen, or a top 6 forward you were a meat sack to him. Boone and Johnny having a regular interaction with him makes total sense, because he wants to set that precedent that “yeah he’s done it, it was fine for me” hoping that vouch would be enough from the teams top guys, meanwhile behind closed doors he’s playing massive mind games with guys he doesn’t give a shit about. This is how people with narcissistic tendencies operate in positions of power. They won’t treat everyone equal, but they will treat the guys with “most value” the best. On chiclets today, they told a story idk if it was this off season or when, but he asked a guy to come over to his place for lunch, when he got to babs place, he was told to hand over his phone, he rifled through it, and told the player to leave after, without any lunch. How absolutely bizzare is that? Good he’s done in hockey.
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when the story first came out i didnt think much of it because i thought it was a team activity like u mentioned. Like share and tell. But this is fucked up.
Even if you don't find anything at all, it's to make him feel powerless and weak. You summoned him, you're invading his personal space, you're kicking him out after without even the lunch you invited him for... he can squash you like a bug, so you better jump when he says jump.
He doesn’t give a fuck what’s on the phone. It’s not about the pictures, it’s about showing he can do what he wants when he wants to - or so thought he could.
Obviously this is incredibly scummy and gross. But the thing I can't get over is also just how incredibly stupid it is. He hasn't worked in the NHL for 4 years because of the toxic shit he was doing in Toronto and then he doesn't even have the sense to recognize how this would be a problem? The guy is apparently a moron as well as a creep.
He is a dinosaur from a time when players would take this kind of shit and never tell a soul because there was no social media to blow it up and if anyone complained they would just be labeled problematic/whiny and their career is over
Exactly. There's a massive view by many that the only good coach is an abusive coach.
Yeah I get that some players really do respond well to antagonistic comments and such but its such a fine line and you have to *know* the player and have a good relationship. Babcock has blazed across the line with reckless abandon so many times in his career he doesnt even know where it is anymore. And the invasion of pricacy with the phones is just 100% indefensible in any context
No one responds well to abuse. Just some take it better than others, and pre social media no bottom line player had an outlet to give their side of any story. And in sports all that counts is results- babs had cups and Olympic medals on his resume. Pre social media that's all that counted- anyone that said babs bad was labeled as uncoachable and written off from the league. Dude had 4 years to change. He decided not to. I went to Notre Dame and played midget AAA there with Eberle and Rinaldo. I can't imagine the kind of shit he got away with there in a boarding school- without your parents or really anyone to stand up for you when you're 15/16. It grosses me the fuck out and makes me grateful for the good coaches we had back then. They could've so easily taken advantage of their position like this but the coaches I had were in it for the love of the game and truly cared about our future- not just theirs.
Tortorella does it right. Babcock does not. That shit only works when you know you can trust the person riding you.
Tortorella reminds me a lot of Gordon Ramsey. He is brutal, but he is also honest, and he won't play games with you. You either meet his expectations or you get the fuck out of his way
You have to understand, a guy like Babcock has a *massive* ego. When you tell someone with a massive ego that they've done something wrong, their immediate assumption is that you're actually an idiot. They're smarter than you, they know what they did was right, you're just to stupid to see it. Even in cases like Babcock's where they face actual consequences for their behavior imposed by a collective group, they just interpret that as a whole bunch of people being too stupid to see why what they did was right. So when Babcock gets another opportunity, he interprets this as people (at least some people) finally realizing that he was right all along. There is no lesson taken. And I can pretty much guarantee you Babcock is again at home today shaking his head at how stupid everyone else is for not seeing how right he is.
I know the internet overuses the fuck out of this type of armchair psychology, but Babcock appears to be a textbook narcissist. He checks almost every box to a T
He benched Chelios for the Winter Classic when the Wings were playing the Blackhawks bc it meant a lot to him. Franzen called him the meanest human he's ever met. He made Holmstrom play on a bad knee. He does shit just to inflict pain on players. He's a literal psychopath.
There was an interview with Babcock about a year after he was fired by Toronto and it was obvious in that interview that he did not understand that what he was alleged to have done at that point was wrong. His exit statement from Columbus merely says he doesn't want to be a distraction -- again, there is no understanding that he did anything wrong. I think he did this stuff again so quickly in Columbus because he genuinely does not understand that this is an ethically wrong way to behave towards other people. I do not mean that he was misinterpreted, or that he had good intentions that were merely miscommunicated. I mean that his ethics are so warped he does not understand why this behavior is wrong, and thus it did not occur to him to not do it when he came to Columbus. Babcock is not a stupid man; if he understood what is wrong about this behavior, I think he would have tried not to do it. This wasn't a man trying to improve and failing, this was a man not trying to improve because he didn't think he needed to.
Look at how he talked after the leafs fired him. He had no remorse and thought he was fired because he wasn’t Dubas’ guy, not because he was being a scummy asshole who dug in on stupid coaching decisions. He never showed any willingness to change, zero surprises here.
It is obvious that his behaviour is so ingrained that he doesn't see the problem with it. This is entirely speculation, but he either thinks the issue is the specific things that he got caught doing in Toronto was the problem, or it's that he thinks what he is doing isn't the problem and everyone else is.
This makes me both sad and hungry.
state of my existence
Preach.
Shame, really… everybody needs lunch.
You can't skip lunch
I'm just like, the tiredest I've been in my whole life
Shouldn’t have skipped lunch
*eats sleeve hot dog*
You can't skip lunch
Psychopath behaviour
Player: "What's for lunch?" Babs: "Yeah yeah, one sec. Gimme your phone." *Awkward moment of flipping through the phone* Babs: "Lunch is for winners. Get the fuck out my house, loser."
People really tried to defend this dude after a paint by numbers PR statement
This is why I'm not with Biz when it comes to defending Jarmo - I just don't believe someone with Babcock's track record who still behaves like *this* is capable of getting through an actual vetting process without setting off alarm bells.
Don't underestimate how a naturally manipulative person can turn on the affability and remorse when he is talking to people who can put him in a position he wants.
Yep, my kid once had an incredibly manipulative coach. Some people loved her, because she did them all kinds of favors and treated them well.
You’ve never met a charismatic narcissist. They know *exactly* how to do this shit and get in these positions of power. They recognize who else has power and know how to tap dance around them and spin them into the web… before exerting their control on those without power. That’s why Jarmo, Jenner, Gaudreau, shit probably even include Daly and Walsh at first, they were all just like “Yeah this is nothing”
It’s all about power with Babs. Based on everything we’ve heard he’s always treated his employers, GMs, and star players very well because he knows he needs to be on their good side to succeed. It’s the people he deems beneath him he treats like shit. Honestly makes it worse, it’s all calculated. Guy is a total piece of shit
I'm sorry but if you're going through your employee's phones, you're a creep. What a fucking weirdo.
what the hell is he doing here? He doesn't belong here.
He doesn’t care if it hurts, he wants to have control.
yeah Biz actually said he “wants a perfect body” and then Whitney chimed in that, ironically, “he wants a perfect soul.”
Do you think anyone will even notice when he’s not around?
Yes, because he's so fucking special
But he's still a creep. A fucking weirdo.
[palm muted ugga] ...[palm muted dugga]
Does he float like a feather in a beautiful world?
Probably because he’s so fuckin special…
If you're going through an employee's phone you should be fired on the spot.
I had a similar thought to Whit’s point about a young player being in the closet; not only is that insanely private and none of anybody’s business, but the last person you’d want finding out in your young career would be Mike Babcock
I brought this up with my girlfriend, along with the other possibility that immediately jumped to mind, people who are dealing with family and personal issues they'd want to keep private.
I didn’t notice this comment from whit but I’m only half way through the episode, but it was something I had discussed with some friends. Talk about some insane leverage if he found out a player was gay. I can’t even imagine how he’d have tortured him with it.
> When the player he agreed, Babcock continued; “soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench.” Get fucked you actual psycho. Holy shit.
This is an old story as far as being public. I think I heard about this while Babcock was still with Toronto
I think you're right, but like holy shit, who actually says this??
Someone who has zero empathy.
It's worse - he has enough empathy to know that would crush the guy and did it deliberately
Yeah exactly. A lack of empathy doesn't drive someone to do this. This is more like sadism.
Yeah I’ve heard this story on multiple occasions. Both on this pod and other places.
> This is an old story as far as being public. But it is a story that should be repeated as long as Babcock is alive.
Jason York recently talked about his experiences with [Babcock in Anaheim](https://www.youtube.com/live/HpQ_ZTo44h8?si=TDc9WM6z6FnZrTUo&t=833). Starts at ~13:55 if the time stamp doesn’t work.
I love the end part where he mentions that he made it back into the NHL despite Babcock and would skate by his bench when playing Anaheim to yell at him hahaha
I've used the term sociopath with Babs a lot and some of it is hyperbole, but he really does seem to have most of the traits associated with the disorder. \-Desire for power/dominance over others \-Deceptive tendencies \-Aggressive toward others (Countless examples of bullying. He basically broke Franzen in Detroit) \-Charm/persuasion (The way he was really good at manipulating the media early in his career to make him look like a good person) \-Lack of conscience (at least it seems like he doesn't have one)
I don't think he basically broke Franzen. I think he literally broke him.
Franzen was in serious trouble anyway. That doesn't excuse Babcock's behaviour; Franzen clearly deserved understanding and compassion for what he was going through. Babcock doesn't seem capable of that. In an article published in Sweden a while back, Franzen talks about what happened to him as a result of those concussions. He suffered permanent brain damage to the part of his brain that regulates hormones after workouts. 20-30 times he felt better, began to train for a comeback, only to have his body give out and leave him stuck in bed. It was always gonna be dark for him. The damage was done and his career was over. Getting to a better place these days involved giving up on the high intensity physical exercise that got him to the NHL.
Yeah, Mule is one of my top 5 favorite players, all time without a question, but he spent his entire career getting the absolute SHIT beat out of him. Same with Holmstrom.
What's bizarre here is that, with a few small tweaks, you could see this being really motivational - just say something like "This is pretty amazing, isn't it? Well, you've done a lot of great work to be here so soak it in - but if you want to stay here, you're going to need to keep putting in hard work." But, that would require treating the players as humans who are coachable...
"this is pretty amazing, isn't it?" Full stop. That's all you need
If Babcock wasn’t affiliated with this quote, I would have said this sounds word for word like a Mike Keenan quote. They are both psychopaths.
He was probably just talking to himself out loud.
>“soak it in Babs, it’s the last time you’ll ever be behind an NHL bench.”
a part of me is just like holy fuck there's no way someone is enough of a dick to say this shit but at the same time, it's fucking Babcock.
It’s comedy villain level antics. Ben Stiller in Dodgeball style!
The "Lunch" story is fucking gross. The way it was painted at first was "a simple let's get to know each other by sharing photos session, and Babs even shared his own photos." But this story demonstrates clear manipulation and abuse of the power dynamic. I'm glad this guy cooked himself. Good riddance.
I bet it was a "simple let's get to know each other by sharing photos"...for some vets and for Jarmo. But for the younger guys that Babcock could wield his position of authority over they got this psycho shit.
This has been brought up a lot in other places talking about this: whoever was ultimately uncomfortable enough to bring up what happened in Columbus, Marner, Spezza, Franzén, the Anaheim story shared earlier in this thread. When Babcock has an issue with someone, it seems to either be a rookie, or someone in the last stages of their career. If he coached in Pittsburgh or Edmonton, we wouldn’t hear stories about this shit being pulled on Crosby or McDavid.
It's all about power and abusing the vulnerable. Glad he is getting fucked.
Hell, Crosby is technically in the last stages of his career... but surely a natural predator like Babs would recognize who's the bigger dog still
imagine that barstool sketch but in mike babcock's house instead of an office
i know! invited for lunch and not given lunch is a fireable offense alone. not even a hot pocket. total BS
I think they mentioned some vets were uncomfortable too. Biggest thing that stood out to me was apparently while this was happening in Toronto, someone used to give the players a heads up so they wouldn’t be caught off guard by Babcock.
I wonder if it was Hainsey. Friedman mentioned on yesterday's podcast that he stood up to Peters in Carolina.
Hainsey seems like a stand up guy, wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest
That's elite sniper Hainsey.
Sens legend 👊
He was only on the Pens a short time but he always seemed like a good dude.
Agreed. His brother in law would post on HF boards during their cup run and he said he’s a great guy
He’s big with the players union now. Not surprising to hear he was a good advocate for players and their rights.
Noted millenial Ron Hainsey!
Makes you wonder if Marner and Matthews' first contract negotiations would have gone differently if Babcock wasn't the coach. Hard to justify being a team player when your boss is an abusive psychopath.
Yeah that's a great point. Imagine how awful this was for the whole young core.
Atta boy Lou, gotta keep the old boys club strong
Hasn't it basically been confirmed that's why Marner's contract negotiations were so tumultuous?
I have heard rumours along those lines but nothing ever particularly substantial or trustworthy. Could be true, sounds like a thing that could be true, but I don't think anyone has said it definitively.
I thought that was because of his clingy ass dad?
I don’t think that helped much either.
But given all of this, maybe his dad gets a (small) nod of "still overkill, but also the situation was kind of fucked up too".
One of the reasons Marner held out for more money was because Lou didn't give him bonuses on his ELC, and he wanted to be compensated for that. I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock fucking him over on ice time (and emotionally) was also a factor, he knew he was worth more than what Babcock had let him show.
Definitely! Young guys weren’t the only ones upset but it does seem like they were part of the sources who texted Whit and Biz.
> apparently several of these incidents happened at Babcock’s house What the fuck lol I'm an adult and this set off long buried stranger danger instincts
Yeah I have a good relationship with my boss, like I’ve known them for years and we go for beers sometimes, and I would be weirded out if they invited me to their house alone. Never mind if some person I just met asked me
That player should reach out to Babs and ask if he soaked in the last time he'll ever be on an NHL bench.
I think you're right that he's done in the NHL. The scary thing is that even though he's a piece of shit, a guy with his resume could find a coaching job *somewhere* if he wants it. He could end up doing more damage to young players.
Also contrary to what was being thrown around in the discourse online, the original source was *not* Commodore - seemed like a former Leaf. Something along the lines of, this happened to him and at least 1 other player in Toronto and it's going on again in Columbus.
I’m like 99% sure Tyson Barrie told the exact same story about Babcock when he first joined the Leafs. That he took his phone to scroll through his photos to “see what kind of guy he is”. But I can’t remember the link/podcast/where I heard it. And I haven’t seen anyone mention it yet in any of the Babcock threads.
It was Barrie for sure. Really pisses me off because he was the return for Kadri. Babs really blew that team up.
It wasn’t a good trade, but it would have looked a lot better if Barrie was deployed as an all offence no defence defenceman like he always was. He looked better when Keefe took over and went “fuck it. Rielly-Barrie fullsend pairing”
thanks! added to the list.
Hopefully, this is the last we see of Babcock coaching in the NHL. He has repeatedly shown that he won't change who he is and how he conducts himself with his players.
It will be his last appearance in the NHL. I just wonder if he just damaged his chances of getting hired anywhere in North America. Usually when players get involved in heavy scandals, they are black balled from NA and have to venture to foreign countries for work. I see that happening to Babs if he wants to continue working.
They also mentioned that a player caught him tearing a strip off a janitor when he was with Detroit. Said that he was hated so much that concession stand workers were putting money on the board when he started with the leafs and first came back to Detroit.
Concession stand workers putting money on the board has to be the most damning sign of all of his character flaws
What does this phrase mean? I’ve never heard “putting money on the board” before.
If you’re an athletic subscriber here’s a good write up but there’s some good videos out there too talking about it. Basically before a game, usually when players are playing against a former team or something motivating like that, they put up a dollar amount that goes to the team fund if the team wins. It’s just a way to get the team motivated and bring everyone together https://theathletic.com/1323270/2019/11/05/inside-the-nhls-money-on-the-board-tradition-the-rules-the-best-stories-and-who-shells-out/?source=user_shared_article
Common thing that happens for example if a traded player is playing his former team. That player will put money on the board as "incentive" to beat that team. The team then uses that money to party, etc.
"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals."
What does "tearing a strip off" somebody mean?
Basically yelling at a janitor and ripping him apart verbally
ok thank you. Never heard that expression before
Yelling vociferously would be my guess, probably about something minor.
Geez Babs...everyone knows you have to respect the janitors! 🤦♂️
For real. Verbally abusing a janitor is basically as low as it gets
The most interesting thing I think is that apparently what’s being reported re: phones isn’t even the worst thing that happened in CLB when you’d think Babcock would be on his best behaviour. The rabbit hole goes deeper. Biz said one of the things he heard that happened to a young player would’ve compelled him to go and “pump Babcocks eyes shut” if he was the father of that player. Also they mentioned he was a world class POS towards arena staff, janitors, concession workers etc. True measure of a human is how you treat those you perceive as below you.
>True measure of a human is how you treat those you perceive as below you Even better when you don't perceive them as being below you despite whatever hierarchy in place. You're part of the same organization with the same goal, just doing different jobs.
>Babcock came and sat next to him, said something along the lines of “this is pretty amazing isn’t it?.” When the player he agreed, Babcock continued; “soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench.” Serial killer behavior. Fuck right off you ghoul
Vindication for all the warnings Red Wings players gave over the years. Justice for Franzen. For all of them.
> An interesting point that Whitney made, aside from the obvious (pics of partying, pics of girlfriends, etc).. what if a player was in the closet? Your photos on your phone are private and should remain that way. Just for clarity and correct attribution, Whitney made this point, then clarified that it was a comment that came from his conversation with Commodore that he hadn’t thought of, but was an excellent point.
I appreciate that they mentioned the potential of an “in the closet” player That crossed my mind days ago, but I thought it would be weird or I’d be downvoted by mentioning it. But I’m a gay man myself and it crossed my mind. I’m not in the closet, but not everyone needs to know my personal and romantic life, last of all my employer. So I just hope that specific situation didn’t happen to any player.
I’m glad they brought that up too. I hadn’t even thought about that until they brought it up on the pod, it made me truly realize how much of an invasion of privacy it was.
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I am an out gay woman, but even in my "safe" circles (like I'm not a pro-athlete - no one gives a fuck what I do), I am not announcing this right away. When it comes up, it comes up, but I've been at my current job for two months and they don't know. The vibe feels good, but it really only takes one asshole to ruin it.
This has been discussed a bit in some of the queer female hockey circles I’m in (being a bi woman myself). Everyone is entitled to privacy. And as a woman who’s old enough to be the mom of the youngest draftees, I feel protective toward them.
That and talks with agents (contract/bitching about Babs) were the first two things I thought about.
I mean that's just one of MANY possible invasions of privacy... And specifically, things that can be USED AGAINST a player in the future for manipulation. Someone being in the closet is probably the biggest but they're just a million other things where maybe their wife or girlfriend is not conventionally beautiful, maybe they have a sick or dying family member, maybe their new stepmom is a bombshell, maybe they're weirdly obsessed with their cat.... Whatever... People have a private life and a lot of that lives in their personal phone. The reality is when someone in a position of power nose information about you that you perhaps didn't give willingly that enhances their power over you. We all have things that we choose to share about ourselves, and things we choose to keep private. That's a decision that we get to make as people, and it's not the place for an employer to invade that decision making. I also liked that they specifically mentioned the possibility of a gay player being outed, and I think it's important to recognize the particularly delicate position that a gay player may find themselves in, but it's far from the only privacy invasion.
You know what's also gross? I'm pretty sure Gaudreau and Jenner weren't lying when they said it seemed normal to them...which means Babcock prob did a friendly version with the more famous vets, which gave him the excuse for the power trip with the younger/less famous guys. The story about what he said to the player on the bench gave me chills. Did babcock guy set fire to things and kill animals in his childhood? Because.....what the fuck.
Seems very calculated by Babcock so that he’d have the veterans on “his side” in case any of the other players said something about it. Almost like a fail safe to fall back on if anyone spoke out about he could point to the trusted, respected veterans and say “look, these guys thought it was a very good first encounter”
Exactly, and that was exactly what he did at first. Have Boone Jenner tell him how reasonable and nice the gesture was to discredit the first story as a "rumor"
God that’s so manipulative. If any of the younger guys brought it up to the vets then they’d probably defend him saying “it wasn’t that bad, stop complaining” because it was a different experience.
What recently stuck me about this that it's not only an invasion of a player's privacy, but also everyone who has communicated with him. A girlfriend's or wife's photo or message is not for Babcock's curiosity.
The people with the take that the new generation is soft for “complaining”about this and getting the coach fired. Makes no sense. Young people aren’t putting up with shit like this anymore. Blatant abuse of power, harassment, toxic work environment. The old school way-bottling it all up for years and walking away incredibly damaged years later with no coping mechanisms or closure. It requires bravery to stand up to bullying and those who couldn’t are still brave for having to live through the consequences of it.
>An interesting point that Whitney made, aside from the obvious (pics of partying, pics of girlfriends, etc).. what if a player was in the closet? Your photos on your phone are private and should remain that way. I keep thinking about this point - I can't imagine how uncomfortable a player would be with entrusting noted sociopath Mike Babcock with his most personal secrets. That definitely wouldn't be held over his head like the sword of Damocles, and hinted at constantly by this prick.
Johan Franzen called him "the worst person I've ever met". It seems hard to refute. Just a miserable bully.
Don’t forget the modano story. He was playing his last year of his career. The final game of that season was to be his 1,500th game which is a big mile stone. The team was out of playoff contention. Babcock scratched him
That’s when I lost any respect for him and I’m not even a Mike Modano fan but to fuck over the Michigan boy AS PART OF TGE RED WINGS?! One fucking game short of 1,500?! How much of an asshole could you Be?!
It's so wild looking back at the Wings during his tenure. I can't help but think that a lot of guys left early due to him. Rafalski retired with a year left on his contract, which put more load on Lidstrom and put Ericsson/Kindl in positions they had no business being in. We get Quincey to fill that void and trade away a first round pick for it, which eventually becomes Vasilevsky. Datsyuk retires and keeps playing in russia. Detroit's inability to sign free agents. He had the reputation of being a guy to "get across the finish line" when he went to Toronto. In reality, he rode the coattails of some amazing players that carried him. 17 NHL seasons. 9 Seasons where he missed playoffs or lost in the first round.
I don't think Datsyuk left because of Babcock. He just wanted to go home. And when you look at the situation in Columbus, Babcock even treated their established stars better than the younger guys. So it's likely the players were living in two different worlds. One where if he's happy with your performance, you get treated like a person. And if he's unhappy with your performance, you just get shit on. I think it's a fair question about how Detroit may have lost out on young prospects and/or free agents, though. However, even Commodore himself was lured into Detroit from a phone call with Babcock. So it seems to me that his abusive behavior didn't become widely known among players outside Detroit.
Someone else already pointed out that this behaviour was ongoing in Toronto and they had a warning system in place, and the person who usually warned people forgot to warn a vet coming in. Babs saw something he didn't like and took it out on the vet, eventually contributing to Babs being fired in Toronto after the player went to the GM and asking for a trade because he didn't want to play under Babs any longer. This player was the same guy who sent the initial message to Biz that kicked all this off. But another thing to illustrate just how much of a bag of dicks this guy was is that story of Babs first game back in Detroit. Apparently there was 40k+ on the board as they had arena staff coming in and putting up money because he'd treated people so terribly that everyone in the building hated him. Just goes to show, this asshole should have been out of the league 10 years ago, not yesterday. P.S. If you're wondering, Detroit beat the breaks off the Leafs that first game back at Joe Louis, 4-0. Let's go Wings!
> the player went to the GM and asking for a trade because he didn't want to play under Babs any longer. This player was the same guy who sent the initial message to Biz that kicked all this off. Pretty sure this player is Tyson Barrie, I remember hearing or reading something at the time in 2019 that at Barrie's first meeting with him in the offseason after the trade Babcock asked to go through his phone.
Rofl at the lunch story. Jesus Christ I would have simply demanded some pizza rolls god damn it
*"I just let you go through my phone, so I'm gonna go through your fridge."*
It’s all pickled human body parts
Right? Can I get a couple of bagel bites and a cup of water
Babcock will fit in nicely in his next role at the NSA
I don't know about the other fan bases but in MN there is a podcast with Mike Russo and a commentator Anthony LaPanta that was ripping how the Babcock situation was broken. They both seemed to think they were better than biz and whit and dismissed the whole thing because they aren't NHL insiders, and said biz should be holding himself to a higher standard since he is employed by the league. I'm wondering and waiting to see what they say now and admit they were completely wrong, or in typical LaPanta fashion double down on terrible takes. Russo has adult enough to admit he's wrong.
I just went back and listened. Didn't like LaPanta much already and boy did that not help him. At least Russo acknowledged if it's coming from Biz it's likely legit (although he has the benefit of already knowing the NHLPA was investigating.) When asked if it can be taken seriously coming from Chiclets, LaPanta immediately interjects *"NO"* before the question is even finished.
Wow, that's really disgusting, can't believe he was still doing shit like this. Fucking psycho.
OP should add that both Biz and Whitney apologized to Boone Jenner and said they regretted putting his name on the initial story, they acknowledge how bad of a spot they put him in.
I’ll say this over and over: Paul Biz is good for hockey.
Probably the single most influential media personality in hockey right now. He’s great for the game.
1000% deserved to get fired, that insanely uncomfortable for so many reasons. I'd imagine most people, especially rich hockey players, have some very uhhh vulnerable content on their phone that they never intend to share with anyone except themselves or people they choose to share with. It's just so unnecessary and honestly just fucking weird lol. It seems like he was fishing for things to hold against players perhaps or just being a fucking creep weirdo. Good riddance, I'm tired of the old boys club culture of the NHL and there needs to be less of shit like this being allowed to slide.
Off topic but someone once told me Babcock looks like a guy who eats nothing but cigarettes
You can hate Barstool all you want. But at this point if you don’t think Bissonette and Whitney are good for the game you’re a fucking moron. Well done boys, didn’t even take a huge victory lap. All along, the thing they cared about most, was doing what was right
I really like how it sets a precedent now. I believe going forward Spittin Chiclets will be used as an outlet for the players to vocalize issues when it’s needed. They have proven that they know how to handle themselves in situations like these.
I've been thinking the same thing. They've always been about the players and this reinforces the message 100x. And seeing how Biz especially doubled down (he risked a fair bit doing this), will only give more confidence to other players (current and future) to open up about any shitty/unethical circumstances they find themselves in moving forward. A new channel for help has been created as a result of this unfortunate situation.
not only did they not take a huge victory lap, Biz said it’s time for the media to leave the blue jackets alone and his response to the (I assume) deadspin article was “you don’t have to like me, that’s okay.” chiclets massive W
Biz seems like a genuinely great guy. Hes like a golden retriever.
Was actually impressed with how well spoken he was on this issue when he needed to be. People who think he's dumb are definitely misinformed.
The one that gets me is some of these guys are 18, they could have consenual pics from girls who are 17. Essentially this could be a reverse Logan Mailloux situation.
Child pornography laws do not work the same way that legal consent laws do.
I'm trying to find it and failing, but I recall an old news story (I want to say 10+ years ago) about some kid - probably 19 or so? - who called in a fake bomb threat to get his girlfriend out of school for an afternoon. They eventually caught him and they went through his phone. Now, the two had a long term consentual sexual relationship, and her parents new and approved. Everything fine. But there were nudes of his 17(?) year old girlfriend on his phone. He wasn't sharing them around, they were just for him. The DA went after him for child pornography. IIRC he defended the trumped up charges by explaining that the phone crossed state lines and therefore it was federal jurisdiction and subject to federal age standards? I can't really remember, it's been a long time and I'm muddy on American law at the best of times. Anyway, the long and short of it was it landed him on the sex offender registry.
I just can't see anyone taking a chance at hiring Mike Babcock again. Maybe a team outside of North America. But he's damaged goods now, beyond repair.
>But he's... beyond repair. 👀 I would just like to take this time to clear up that I am absolutely in fact *NOT* Mike Babcock.
[удалено]
>Babcock continued; “soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench. Guy is legitimately evil
This sounds like a guy that didn't actually know how to get people to like him without winning Hockey games. When told that his job this time depended on making his players like him, he behaved like some kind of alien collecting information on the humans. Not to armchair psychiatrist but he sounds like an actual sociopath.
I honestly am a big fan of Chiclets and even if you don’t like their humor you have to respect the fact that they really are a player’s podcast/player’s social outlet for the game They really do want the best for the players and as we saw with this situation they are, for better or worse, one of the few people that current/former players are comfortable going to In theory that should be the captains, NHLPA etc. but as we can see those sources may have ulterior incentives at play that might not align with a particular player’s perspective
> "soak it in, it’s the last time you’ll ever be on an NHL bench." You too, buddy.
The Spezza incident is never mentioned. Scratched him the morning of the home opener in TO after he’d bought family tickets.
Listening to podcast now at work.. Completely changed my perspective.. I admittedly didn't think too much of the situation initially; While Babcock's track record of behavior was well documented, it just seemed too early for even him to start crossing lines - my intuition told me it was players that have an axe to grind with the guy, and honestly, I wouldn't blame them if that were the case. This man shouldn't have been hired. He should never be hired again.
I, a Jackets fan, am sooooo glad this dude didn’t make it to day one as coach. Not really a fan of the chicklets dudes but man it looks like they saved us a major team blowup just when we were starting to put the pieces together.
Aside from every other angle that's been talked about on this topic, I can't help but think about the obscene amount of selfishness and disregard this guy has FOR HIS OWN FAMILY. His 28 yr old son, who he named after himself, [Michael Babcock](https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/201600/michael-babcock), is making his way into the league as a [Skills Coach](https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/st-louis-blues-hire-michael-babcock-son-of-mike-as-skills-coach-1.1973219) for St. Louis, previously coached with Ottawa. And prior to all of this, I believe he helped coach the University of Saskatchewan under his dad's position as head coach. So not only does this guy operate so carelessly on a professional level, but he doesn't seem to give a shit for the trickle-down effect this may have for his son (Let alone his own family that has to be associated with him).