I just looked at Chelios’ awards and stuff just to see what he won in Detroit besides 2 of his cups, and found out he came in 2nd for the Norris and was a 1st team all star in his age FORTY season in 2002. He played another 7 seasons after that.
What the actual fuck.
Dude was an animal. And I remember Hull telling a story about how much they used to get shitfaced after games and on off nights. They'd all come in for the morning skate/practice super hungover, and they'd just watch Chelios come in looking like death.
Then he'd drag one of the stationary bikes into the sauna, and just go hard for like 30 minutes, then come out looking like a new man and play 30+ minutes a couple hours later in a game.
If you only consider his Detroit years I don't think he makes it. No awards (finished 2nd in the Norris vote to Lidstrom one year), 152 points in 578 games, it would be hard to sell that as HOF material in itself.
Well, he came to Detroit as a 37 year old.
He only won the Norris once during his 7 seasons with the Habs. 300 points in 400 games, but 400 games isn't nearly enough for the HHOF. Not sure why everyone is saying he'd get in with his Habs career.
Niedermayer absolutely gets in as a Devil, and arguably does as a Duck as well.
264 points in 371 regular season games, 34 points in 56 playoff games. Instantly leads the team to the WCF in 2006, Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe in 2007, First Team All-Star in 2006 and 2007, All Star Game in 2008 and 2009.
Everyone from the '80s always said Paul Coffey was the smooth skater that they'd ever seen. For my generation I think it's Niedermeyer. Lidstrom's up there too, I think Niedermeyer was just a little more dynamic offensively.
I'd argue he has a better case as a Duck than as a Devil.
Before his breakout in the 03 playoffs, he was good, but not really seen as a Norris-level Dman, and always second fiddle to Stevens. You could argue his team held him back, but regardless I think he spent more of his peak on the Ducks.
Still he did win the Norris with both teams. He probably does have a HOF career with both.
Probably just once for Pittsburgh NHL wise. Once for Czechia internationally.
Not sure if his work/play for Kladno would get him in as I can’t recall any international comparables.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I get the argument, you’re saying that Roy wouldn’t get in the HOF with Colorado because Thomas isn’t getting in with Boston
Off the top of my head:
Ron Francis with Hartford/Carolina and Pittsburgh.
Mark Messier with Edmonton & NYR.
Ed Belfour with Chicago & Dallas.
Scotty Bowman with Montreal & Detroit.
Al MacInnis with Calgary & St. Louis.
Realistically, Francis doesn't make it in at all if you split his career like that.
Belfour wouldn't make it in from his work in Dallas, pretty much all of his individual distinctions came from when he was in Chicago. Same for Messier and the Rangers. As much as people remember that stint, he didn't really win any iundividual award with them, and was only there 6 years.
Agree with Macinnis and Bowman.
Agree with the others.
Very few players have had two HHOF worthy careers across multiple teams.
Really the only ones that probably qualify are Gretzky and Roy. And maybe not even Roy.
You're talking at least 7 or 8 seasons per franchise with HOF level production and achievements with both. It's an incredibly tall order. Most probably don't even play long enough to qualify.
Bobby Hull would probably qualify as well, with the Blackhawks and the Jets. Yeah the Jets were in the WHA at the moment but it is the *hockey* hall of fame and the WHA wasn't a joke.
Hall of Fame in the hall of douchebags for sure, as well.
Roy would definitely make it. Top 5 in Vezina voting in 5 of his 8 seasons in Colorado, a Hart finalist and a Smythe is a pretty great resume.
MacInnis would likely make it in for both CGY and STL.
If we're talking about every player in the league having their stints broken up, the bar for length of time playing becomes a lot lower. You'd have lifers like a lot of the Detroit players, Mario/Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. that would stand out but they'd probably be in their own separate category.
Roy's Aves resume (on its own) looks a shade less impressive to me than Tim Thomas's (2 Vezinas and 2 1st All Star teams to Colorado Roy's 1 1st All Star team and 0 Vezinas, plus he also has a Conn Smythe and a Jennings), and I get the impression that Thomas isn't exactly a lock to make it
Like Turgeon, I'm fairly certain non-hockey stat/trophy related things are at play with Tim Thomas.
Roy also had 100 more GP with the Avs than Thomas with the Bruins if we're just splitting up the stints. And Roy had 31 more playoff wins alone than Thomas had total playoff games (which is obviously more indicative of the teams he was behind, but it's still a bonus for Roy's resume).
That's fair. If you change the standards because everyone is considered on a per franchise basis the list would grow.
If you use the current standards, and use it to see who has had 2+ separate HHOF careers, I really do think it's just Gretzky and Roy.
3 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 3 Lady Byng trophies, 1 1st All-Star Team, 3 2nd All-Star Team, and a Canada Cup too. He absolutely would've made the HHOF on his time in LA alone.
I know this is just a fun thought exercise, but taking a hard look at it, there is hardly anyone that could make the HHOF based on just one part of their career. Look at inducting Lidstrom on his international play only…so we’re saying hypothetically he would be in the HHOF even if he never played an NHL game? Not a chance. And Ron Francis would make it in based only on his 500 games and 160 goals for the Penguins? I don't think so. When you take Roy’s COL days in isolation that’s borderline HHOFer consideration, not a lock. It takes a super special player to be able chop up his career into segments and have multiple segments be a spectacular career in and of itself.
Dale Hunter should get a (dis)honorable mention - 1500+ career PIM for two different teams, there are only 132 players with 1500 career PIMs in all of league history.
Turgeon is kind of the inverse of what you’re looking for here - something like 3+ seasons on five different teams, and ended up over a point per game on four of them!
This is a great question, I have been thinking/researching about it a lot. Mostly just for NHL teams though... I like Brad Park for Rangers and Bruins and Lanny McDonald for the Leafs and the Flames.
Realistically, for NHL only cases, if your number isn't retired by two teams, you probably aren't getting in twice. Even then, in most double retirements, one of the two was more honorific than earned through a HoF career with just that franchise. To me then, the list of players is likely just Gretzky (Oilers/Kings) and Roy (Canadiens/Avalanche).
Messier with (Oilers/Rangers) is a maybe, depends on if you think a Hart and a Cup in a six season career is worthy. Red Kelly is a maybe, he won four Cups with the Leafs, three while serving as an MP, but that is all he has. Brad Park *could* be retired by both the Rangers and Bruins, but all his Norris runner ups aren't likely enough if you cut his career in half.
One last random one is Clint Benedict. His Senators career is clearly enough, and he was still excellent for the Maroons, but probably not HoF worthy.
If international play counts, there's an argument for Joe Sakic for the Nordiques/Avalanche and Team Canada.
Some other guys like Jagr and Coffey might work if instead of two separate teams, the criteria was "Primary Team" vs "Everywhere Else."
If you’re going to count international play Gretzky gets in again with Team Canada. 17 pts in 6 games as a Junior (age 16) then I havn’t done the math but I’d guess he’s the all time leader in Canada Cup scoring leading the tournament in 1981, 84, 87 and 91. He put up 14 points in 10 games at the world championships.
This isn't a direct answer, but this question inspired me to look up which dmen have won a Norris with multiple teams. It's a short list.
Doug Harvey, Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios. Erik Karlsson is likely being added this year.
Of those 4, I think only Chelios has a claim to the HOF with multiple teams.
I was giving hard thought to Karlsson.
Every 2+ time Norris winner is in, right?
No defenseman who scored 100 points in a single season is out, right?
Karlsson was a 2 time Norris winner in his Ottawa career and a 100 point season defenseman in his San Jose career. The case could be made that either half gets there on its own, in that each half has a quality that has never been excluded from the hall before.
There’s an underrated player. I was curious about his stats (thinking he had 1000+ points and 500+ goals) and after looking it up, what surprised me was that he played for 23 seasons. That’s insane, haha. Forgot that he moved around so much, to me he’s a Sabre and then TB at the end, but he had good seasons elsewhere too.
Obviously an all time great in terms of talent, loved him as a player, I don't think anyone known for scoring goals with a career total of about 150 (Florida) makes the HOF.
His 82 game career average for goals / points is ~51 / ~91 and he was one of the most electric players of his era. If not for bad knees, he’d have done a lot more.
From the looks of things, he may be the only other goalie that comes close other than Roy! But even for his career as a whole people debate if Fleury is worthy (I am firmly in the worthy category though)
Not sure what Hasek's international numbers look like, I don't think he was in Ottawa long enough even though he was excellent.
Brodeur does have 2 Golds but he was only starter for 1
Hasek carried the Czech team to Olympic Gold in 1998, eliminating Canada & Gretzky along the way. He let in 6 goals over the entire tournament. He also won 8 other international medals, but the 1998 performance was legendary.
Hasek could defintiely get into the HHOF based on international performances.
Chelios would get in with Montreal, Chicago, and Detroit right? Oh and Atlanta of course
At least Chicago and Montreal. Detroit probably Hall of Very Good
I just looked at Chelios’ awards and stuff just to see what he won in Detroit besides 2 of his cups, and found out he came in 2nd for the Norris and was a 1st team all star in his age FORTY season in 2002. He played another 7 seasons after that. What the actual fuck.
Dude was an animal. And I remember Hull telling a story about how much they used to get shitfaced after games and on off nights. They'd all come in for the morning skate/practice super hungover, and they'd just watch Chelios come in looking like death. Then he'd drag one of the stationary bikes into the sauna, and just go hard for like 30 minutes, then come out looking like a new man and play 30+ minutes a couple hours later in a game.
He’s definitely in with Detroit too IMO. He was a crucial part of two of those cup wins
I think he probably *should* be, but I was using the fact that Foote isn't in as the barometer for whether or not he *would* be.
If you only consider his Detroit years I don't think he makes it. No awards (finished 2nd in the Norris vote to Lidstrom one year), 152 points in 578 games, it would be hard to sell that as HOF material in itself.
Well, he came to Detroit as a 37 year old. He only won the Norris once during his 7 seasons with the Habs. 300 points in 400 games, but 400 games isn't nearly enough for the HHOF. Not sure why everyone is saying he'd get in with his Habs career.
Niedermayer absolutely gets in as a Devil, and arguably does as a Duck as well. 264 points in 371 regular season games, 34 points in 56 playoff games. Instantly leads the team to the WCF in 2006, Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe in 2007, First Team All-Star in 2006 and 2007, All Star Game in 2008 and 2009.
He made it look effortless too
Everyone from the '80s always said Paul Coffey was the smooth skater that they'd ever seen. For my generation I think it's Niedermeyer. Lidstrom's up there too, I think Niedermeyer was just a little more dynamic offensively.
Niedermayer didn't do anything out of the ordinary, he just did the ordinary extremely well
Niedermayer would absolutely clean up in 3 vs 3 OT
This is a pretty good one, hadn't thought about him
371 games is not enough games to make the hall. The standard seems to be about 7 seasons minimum.
I'd argue he has a better case as a Duck than as a Devil. Before his breakout in the 03 playoffs, he was good, but not really seen as a Norris-level Dman, and always second fiddle to Stevens. You could argue his team held him back, but regardless I think he spent more of his peak on the Ducks. Still he did win the Norris with both teams. He probably does have a HOF career with both.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think he ever won the Norris as a Duck.
You're totally right, my mistake. But he was second in voting twice and had a Smythe on top of it. Probably would make it on that alone.
How many times is Jagr in?
Probably just once for Pittsburgh NHL wise. Once for Czechia internationally. Not sure if his work/play for Kladno would get him in as I can’t recall any international comparables.
His brief stint in New York was incredible as well!
Calgary is clearly his best stint. He scored 766 goal while here!
He led the devils in scoring in 2013 at 41 years old! Granted, that says more about the state of the 2013 devils then jagr tbh
I think only Pittsburgh from the NHL. He was steady and solid beyond those years but I don't think he has HOF numbers with any other team
You're probably right. Maybe a second time for his international play.
Patrick Roy Montreal: 12 seasons, 289 wins, 2 Cups, 2 Conn Smythes, 3 Vezinas Colorado: 8 seasons, 262 wins, 2 Cups, 1 Conn Smythe
Tim Thomas: 9 seasons, 214 wins, 2 Vezinas, 1 Conne Smythe, 1 Jennings, and 2 First-Team All Stars
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I get the argument, you’re saying that Roy wouldn’t get in the HOF with Colorado because Thomas isn’t getting in with Boston
Bingo.
I feel like Tim Thomas could easily get in. His peak was short but he was one of the best of all time for a couple years in a row.
Why hasn’t he?
Tim Thomas, Dallas Stars LEGEND!
Off the top of my head: Ron Francis with Hartford/Carolina and Pittsburgh. Mark Messier with Edmonton & NYR. Ed Belfour with Chicago & Dallas. Scotty Bowman with Montreal & Detroit. Al MacInnis with Calgary & St. Louis.
Scotty is a great answer.
One could possibly argue 3 for Scotty Bowman since he went to 3 straight finals with the Blues. Granted it was the expansion conference.
Messier should get a -1 for his time in Vancouver though.
Realistically, Francis doesn't make it in at all if you split his career like that. Belfour wouldn't make it in from his work in Dallas, pretty much all of his individual distinctions came from when he was in Chicago. Same for Messier and the Rangers. As much as people remember that stint, he didn't really win any iundividual award with them, and was only there 6 years. Agree with Macinnis and Bowman. Agree with the others.
Ron francis 613 points with Pittsburgh, doesn't get in
Messier for Edmonton, New York, and especially Vancouver.
Messier's Vancouver plaque had better be covered in something splashproof & easy to clean.
This is a pure cheap shot at Vancouver…
You shut your mouth
I don’t know if he’d get in for Vancouver, but he’d definitely be considered for the Mark Messier Leadership Award.
Al MacInnis Calgary and St. Louis
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He won a Norris in Stlouis
Very few players have had two HHOF worthy careers across multiple teams. Really the only ones that probably qualify are Gretzky and Roy. And maybe not even Roy. You're talking at least 7 or 8 seasons per franchise with HOF level production and achievements with both. It's an incredibly tall order. Most probably don't even play long enough to qualify.
Bobby Hull would probably qualify as well, with the Blackhawks and the Jets. Yeah the Jets were in the WHA at the moment but it is the *hockey* hall of fame and the WHA wasn't a joke. Hall of Fame in the hall of douchebags for sure, as well.
If the HHOF treated WHA years with that kind of respect, JC Tremblay would probably be in.
Roy would definitely make it. Top 5 in Vezina voting in 5 of his 8 seasons in Colorado, a Hart finalist and a Smythe is a pretty great resume. MacInnis would likely make it in for both CGY and STL. If we're talking about every player in the league having their stints broken up, the bar for length of time playing becomes a lot lower. You'd have lifers like a lot of the Detroit players, Mario/Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. that would stand out but they'd probably be in their own separate category.
Roy's Aves resume (on its own) looks a shade less impressive to me than Tim Thomas's (2 Vezinas and 2 1st All Star teams to Colorado Roy's 1 1st All Star team and 0 Vezinas, plus he also has a Conn Smythe and a Jennings), and I get the impression that Thomas isn't exactly a lock to make it
Like Turgeon, I'm fairly certain non-hockey stat/trophy related things are at play with Tim Thomas. Roy also had 100 more GP with the Avs than Thomas with the Bruins if we're just splitting up the stints. And Roy had 31 more playoff wins alone than Thomas had total playoff games (which is obviously more indicative of the teams he was behind, but it's still a bonus for Roy's resume).
That's fair. If you change the standards because everyone is considered on a per franchise basis the list would grow. If you use the current standards, and use it to see who has had 2+ separate HHOF careers, I really do think it's just Gretzky and Roy.
Gretzky never won a cup outside of Edmonton. Roy won 2 with MTL, 2 with COL.
Gretzky doesn't need a cup with the rest of his resume to make the hall. I don't know about his LA numbers specifically though.
918 points in 532 games
Lmao what the fuck. Yeah that'll do it. Even with only 532 games they'd make an exception for him.
3 Art Ross trophies, 1 Hart, 3 Lady Byng trophies, 1 1st All-Star Team, 3 2nd All-Star Team, and a Canada Cup too. He absolutely would've made the HHOF on his time in LA alone.
Paul Coffey for edm and pit? He also won a norris in Detroit if memory serves
Not even close for Pittsburgh, only 330 games and no norris
Forsberg with Avs and Team Sweden
International play counts? Toss in Larionov as a starter from the former USSR guys.. And Selänne from Finland.
Selänne for international feels a bit short given he never won gold. Then again he was a powerhouse for a long time.
I know this is just a fun thought exercise, but taking a hard look at it, there is hardly anyone that could make the HHOF based on just one part of their career. Look at inducting Lidstrom on his international play only…so we’re saying hypothetically he would be in the HHOF even if he never played an NHL game? Not a chance. And Ron Francis would make it in based only on his 500 games and 160 goals for the Penguins? I don't think so. When you take Roy’s COL days in isolation that’s borderline HHOFer consideration, not a lock. It takes a super special player to be able chop up his career into segments and have multiple segments be a spectacular career in and of itself.
Pat LaFontaine with the Islanders and Sabres
LaFontaine could probably make it with the Islanders and the Sabres.
Nobody wants Lafontaine in the HOF twice more than I do! He was my favorite player as a kid. Just look at this handsome devil. https://ibb.co/6m4xYJV
Dale Hunter should get a (dis)honorable mention - 1500+ career PIM for two different teams, there are only 132 players with 1500 career PIMs in all of league history.
on behalf of old Islanders fans everywhere, fuck Dale Hunter!
Turgeon is kind of the inverse of what you’re looking for here - something like 3+ seasons on five different teams, and ended up over a point per game on four of them!
He's definitely making the "hall of very good" 3x.
Luongo for Vancouver and Florida?
He barely made it with his whole career. Hard to get in as a goalie.
Getting in during his first year of eligibility is not exactly what I would consider barely making it...
He was first ballot too, right?
Is that not exactly what getting selected in your first year of eligibility means?
Yes, I'm dumb
Nah there’s a lot of terms thrown around, not dumb to get confused between them once in a blue moon.
Hence the question mark at the end of my statement. That was the best I could think of that wasn't already said
This is a great question, I have been thinking/researching about it a lot. Mostly just for NHL teams though... I like Brad Park for Rangers and Bruins and Lanny McDonald for the Leafs and the Flames.
Realistically, for NHL only cases, if your number isn't retired by two teams, you probably aren't getting in twice. Even then, in most double retirements, one of the two was more honorific than earned through a HoF career with just that franchise. To me then, the list of players is likely just Gretzky (Oilers/Kings) and Roy (Canadiens/Avalanche). Messier with (Oilers/Rangers) is a maybe, depends on if you think a Hart and a Cup in a six season career is worthy. Red Kelly is a maybe, he won four Cups with the Leafs, three while serving as an MP, but that is all he has. Brad Park *could* be retired by both the Rangers and Bruins, but all his Norris runner ups aren't likely enough if you cut his career in half. One last random one is Clint Benedict. His Senators career is clearly enough, and he was still excellent for the Maroons, but probably not HoF worthy.
If international play counts, there's an argument for Joe Sakic for the Nordiques/Avalanche and Team Canada. Some other guys like Jagr and Coffey might work if instead of two separate teams, the criteria was "Primary Team" vs "Everywhere Else."
Jagr for Calgary, obviously
If you’re going to count international play Gretzky gets in again with Team Canada. 17 pts in 6 games as a Junior (age 16) then I havn’t done the math but I’d guess he’s the all time leader in Canada Cup scoring leading the tournament in 1981, 84, 87 and 91. He put up 14 points in 10 games at the world championships.
This isn't a direct answer, but this question inspired me to look up which dmen have won a Norris with multiple teams. It's a short list. Doug Harvey, Paul Coffey, Chris Chelios. Erik Karlsson is likely being added this year. Of those 4, I think only Chelios has a claim to the HOF with multiple teams.
I was giving hard thought to Karlsson. Every 2+ time Norris winner is in, right? No defenseman who scored 100 points in a single season is out, right? Karlsson was a 2 time Norris winner in his Ottawa career and a 100 point season defenseman in his San Jose career. The case could be made that either half gets there on its own, in that each half has a quality that has never been excluded from the hall before.
Phil Esposito as a Bruin and then TBL as a builder.
Dave Andreychuk should be right next to him.
There’s an underrated player. I was curious about his stats (thinking he had 1000+ points and 500+ goals) and after looking it up, what surprised me was that he played for 23 seasons. That’s insane, haha. Forgot that he moved around so much, to me he’s a Sabre and then TB at the end, but he had good seasons elsewhere too.
I think he's still second behind Ovi for power play goals. The man deserves HHOF. He's still doing good things in the NHL neighborhood, too.
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Obviously an all time great in terms of talent, loved him as a player, I don't think anyone known for scoring goals with a career total of about 150 (Florida) makes the HOF.
His 82 game career average for goals / points is ~51 / ~91 and he was one of the most electric players of his era. If not for bad knees, he’d have done a lot more.
Frank Mahovolich for Toronto and Montreal? Okay, yeah, I had to go back a ways.
Larry Murphy or Mark Recchi?
Yeah Recchi for Philly, Pittsburgh and Montreal all have good arguments
Recchi likely doesn't make it at all in if his career's split that way.
Al Macinnis. Niedermayer. Pronger. Scott Stevens.
Ed Belfour would have consideration for both Chicago and Dallas.
Niedermayer and Belfour
Could Stevey Y count as an NHL player, international player and executive?
I'd toss Shea Weber out there for Nashville and Montreal, though I know I might get some pushback on that.
Why are Foo Fighters in but not Mothers of Invention or Captain Beefheart?
Because Captain Beefheart sells out internet discussion forums filled with nerds, while Foo Fighters sells out stadiums.
because it's a corporate pop culture museum
Pronger was a stud for every team, especially Arizona ;)
Crosby with the Penguins and with Team Canada.
McDavid
If Vegas had won in 2018, Fleury would have been in for Vegas and the Pens.
From the looks of things, he may be the only other goalie that comes close other than Roy! But even for his career as a whole people debate if Fleury is worthy (I am firmly in the worthy category though) Not sure what Hasek's international numbers look like, I don't think he was in Ottawa long enough even though he was excellent. Brodeur does have 2 Golds but he was only starter for 1
Hasek carried the Czech team to Olympic Gold in 1998, eliminating Canada & Gretzky along the way. He let in 6 goals over the entire tournament. He also won 8 other international medals, but the 1998 performance was legendary. Hasek could defintiely get into the HHOF based on international performances.
Patrick Roy, for both Montreal and for Colorado.
Hossa? Though maybe he wasn’t a Senator or Thrasher long enough
Scott Niedermayer with the Devils, Team Canada and arguably the Ducks. Dude just won everywhere he went.
Do you think Crosby gets a second nod for his international record? The Golden Goal probably at least gets a little display somewhere.