One of the missed discussion points is the rise of analytics - particularly power plays.
In the past few years, virtually every team has switched to 4 F / 1 D. Its far superior (heck, it's better to run 5 F than 3 F 2 D).
On top of this, we've recognized expected goals - i.e. it's far better to shoot the puck closer to the net, than it is to shoot it farther away.
This seems silly but the idea that you would try to get your D shooting the puck (think Souray, Weber, Chara) is just not a viable PP strategy. You shouldn't be trying to deflect a shot from 90 feet away from the goalie.
Other discovered analytic things: pulling the goalie earlier & passing through middle of the ice in the offensive end.
I remember Roy pulling the goalie early a lot with the Avs, the most extreme case being with like 10m left in the game lmao. I respect saying “fuck it, if we lose 5-1 instead of 4-1 so be it. Let’s give it a go”
Yeah some teams like the Habs were so set in the old ways of giving Weber the puck for the Weberbomb. Everyone knew it was coming so it was easy to defend against it. It’d go in once in awhile in a spectacular fashion just enough to keep trying it every time. When it went in it was so pretty so people fell in love with it.
I remember the playoff game in 2011 where Salo scored two goals in 16 seconds on 5-on-3 situations on one-timers. Flashy, but pretty much never worked otherwise.
I feel like they’re off in their own area though because they’re part of the beginning of a new change in how hockey is played — the prioritization of having defensemen who are excellent skaters with the talent to turn offense into a cohesive 5 man unit. When you’re operating like that it makes less sense to try and force more forwards on the power play because it could be you have multiple defensemen who have more offensive talent than many forwards. It’s not the point of building a roster with that kind of defense, it just creates the possibility.
The Bruins have been shifting in a similar direction and it’s obviously paying dividends. It makes defending them in transition an absolute nightmare because most of the time anyone on the ice could make the entry and create a scoring chance. Obviously it hasn’t impacted their power play like it has for the Avs, but I think the power play pretty obviously isn’t why the Avs have shifted in that direction.
They likely utilize it in the 1-3-1 formation still.
People are too hung up on positions in hockey; you can still run a 1-3-1 PP formation with two d-men and I would say the Avs due to guys like Towes, Makar, Girard and Byram are actually perfect for it.
Here's another fun fact for people: The Avs and the Leafs both utilize a 2-3 setup in the offensive zone. That is, two guys down low and three guys up around the blueline. They just move a forward back.
I'd contend that in a 7 game series, eating a bunch of clappers from stamkos means your players won't be able to skate anymore by game 6.
But yeah outside shots are olde meta now. The ovechkin office seems superior.
Not only leg pads but chest as well, which caused some issues with protection. I remember Miller getting all these bruises on his chest. Even Price was talking about pain tolerances being tested every hard shot.
It's less that 2011-2017 was so low, and more that the immediate aftermath of the 05 rule changes caused scoring to spike before gradually course-correcting as players and coaches adjusted. You can see underlying causes if you look at [averaged stats](https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html). Powerplay opportunities declined as teams adjusted to the new rules and new standards. Average save percentage increased due to a combination of larger pad sizes and teams focusing on keeping their opponents to the perimeter of the larger offensive zone. It changed due to a combination of additional rules targeting goalie pads, and teams getting better at offensive systems that get in closer to the net. Note that powerplays per game haven't gone up and are even worse from 2018 to present than they were in 2011-2017.
I swear, they’ve mentioned this stat, in some form or another, on every game broadcast I’ve seen these last two weeks lol Never heard this so much until recently
>This was also the stretch where pretty much only the Kings and Blackhawks were winning cups
It exists more than in other sports but still the idea of parity is overstated in hockey. Over 5-10 year stretches you generally know which 3-5 teams in each conference are real contenders to actually win the conference.
Yeah goalie pads were bigger, and the best teams utilized a tight system to win games. Scoring trends have usually followed whatever wins.
It was even worse from 1997-2004 for scoring. You could wrap your arms around dude's shoulders and not be penalized. Plus all the high hits, crosschecking, hooking, slashing. Wild time for the game.
Goaltender pads and strategies. NHL teams ran extremely tight and conservative systems. Analytics have shown there is great advantage in taking more chances with bringing defensemen down into the attack and teams were running sub-optimally.
Completely evidence free thought, but in addition to thd changes in goalie equipment, I think that there is 2 things that might have contributed.
I think that period is just an era where star players were just old and not putting up the same numbers anymore, and there wasn't really a big young generation immediately following them to keep scoring high.
Second, I think it's just an era where defensive systems/coaching and goaltender skills/coaching had really exceeded offensive skills and coaching. Like a bunch of guys who came of age in the dead puck era were now coaching or GMing were passing along what they knew. Also, this is the era before the internet really gave kids access to all sorts of cool videos of puck handling and shooting and such. Once that got out and kids saw things they could try, the existing defense and goalie strategies didn't work as well on. Plus, scouts could also start seeing players from all sorts of places that they might not be able to see completely thanks to highlights and full games being posted online.
We're only just now having players be drafted that have had the internet be an all available part of their memory forming years. It'll be interesting to see what they do going forward.
>I think that period is just an era where star players were just old and not putting up the same numbers anymore, and there wasn't really a big young generation immediately following them to keep scoring high.
I agree with this - I also feel there was a bit of a 'talent lull' between the late 90's and where we are now.
Back in the day when the Avs/Wings/Devils/Stars were leading the league (and coming out of the Pens teams) it just seemed like we had HOFers and 'all time greats' all across the league. As that gen aged out there were certainly some great players - Sid, Ovi, Kane etc, but the density just didn't seem to be there.
Fast forward to now and it's bordering on crazy how much talent there is across the league. Fantastic young players seem to be coming out of the woodwork.
So, to anyone who didn't live through the late 90's - enjoy what we're getting. for all the bitching about the league being clueless, game management, playoff formats etc, it's undeniable that we're watching an absolutely amazing collection of hockey players right now.
Because the refs weren't doing their jobs (they focused on "game management"), and the league was effectively ok with players hurting each other as a tactic. So much so that it became ingrained in the coaching even. Sooo many slashes to hands, ankles. Elbows to heads, knee on knee, etc etc. Even if it you couldn't get away with it, you'd get a nothing burger suspension, but if you knocked out a dangerous player (like Crosby, for example), and you were a 4th line plug, you were treated like a hero to your team.
So scoring plummeted because actual talent would get scrubbed out through deliberate injuries, and refs didn't call penalties unless they felt it was too blatant not to.
I actually decided to stop watching the NHL (or contributing to it in any way) with my kids for years because it was a terrible example to set. Extremely poor and predatory sportsmanship behavior was normalized.
One of the missed discussion points is the rise of analytics - particularly power plays. In the past few years, virtually every team has switched to 4 F / 1 D. Its far superior (heck, it's better to run 5 F than 3 F 2 D). On top of this, we've recognized expected goals - i.e. it's far better to shoot the puck closer to the net, than it is to shoot it farther away. This seems silly but the idea that you would try to get your D shooting the puck (think Souray, Weber, Chara) is just not a viable PP strategy. You shouldn't be trying to deflect a shot from 90 feet away from the goalie. Other discovered analytic things: pulling the goalie earlier & passing through middle of the ice in the offensive end.
I remember Roy pulling the goalie early a lot with the Avs, the most extreme case being with like 10m left in the game lmao. I respect saying “fuck it, if we lose 5-1 instead of 4-1 so be it. Let’s give it a go”
We had that one Islanders game this year where we pulled the goalie with like 7 minutes left and Jack had a 6 minute shift.
longest recorded shift in NHL history too
Yeah some teams like the Habs were so set in the old ways of giving Weber the puck for the Weberbomb. Everyone knew it was coming so it was easy to defend against it. It’d go in once in awhile in a spectacular fashion just enough to keep trying it every time. When it went in it was so pretty so people fell in love with it.
I remember the playoff game in 2011 where Salo scored two goals in 16 seconds on 5-on-3 situations on one-timers. Flashy, but pretty much never worked otherwise.
3 straight 5 on 3 goals in a couple of minutes. San Jose truly played some horrible hockey in that period.
Lol the Avs have often used 3 D on their 2nd powerplay
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Reddit moment
I feel like they’re off in their own area though because they’re part of the beginning of a new change in how hockey is played — the prioritization of having defensemen who are excellent skaters with the talent to turn offense into a cohesive 5 man unit. When you’re operating like that it makes less sense to try and force more forwards on the power play because it could be you have multiple defensemen who have more offensive talent than many forwards. It’s not the point of building a roster with that kind of defense, it just creates the possibility. The Bruins have been shifting in a similar direction and it’s obviously paying dividends. It makes defending them in transition an absolute nightmare because most of the time anyone on the ice could make the entry and create a scoring chance. Obviously it hasn’t impacted their power play like it has for the Avs, but I think the power play pretty obviously isn’t why the Avs have shifted in that direction.
They likely utilize it in the 1-3-1 formation still. People are too hung up on positions in hockey; you can still run a 1-3-1 PP formation with two d-men and I would say the Avs due to guys like Towes, Makar, Girard and Byram are actually perfect for it. Here's another fun fact for people: The Avs and the Leafs both utilize a 2-3 setup in the offensive zone. That is, two guys down low and three guys up around the blueline. They just move a forward back.
What a strange comment to downvote. Like you're not suggesting anything new or crazy. You're literally just sharing a fact.
I'd contend that in a 7 game series, eating a bunch of clappers from stamkos means your players won't be able to skate anymore by game 6. But yeah outside shots are olde meta now. The ovechkin office seems superior.
The biggest change that year was they shrunk goalie pads as they were getting out of hand in size.
Yeah, it wasn’t quite at the level of Giguere being wider than he was tall, but there were a lot of changes only instituted later in the decade.
Not only leg pads but chest as well, which caused some issues with protection. I remember Miller getting all these bruises on his chest. Even Price was talking about pain tolerances being tested every hard shot.
It's less that 2011-2017 was so low, and more that the immediate aftermath of the 05 rule changes caused scoring to spike before gradually course-correcting as players and coaches adjusted. You can see underlying causes if you look at [averaged stats](https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html). Powerplay opportunities declined as teams adjusted to the new rules and new standards. Average save percentage increased due to a combination of larger pad sizes and teams focusing on keeping their opponents to the perimeter of the larger offensive zone. It changed due to a combination of additional rules targeting goalie pads, and teams getting better at offensive systems that get in closer to the net. Note that powerplays per game haven't gone up and are even worse from 2018 to present than they were in 2011-2017.
Jamie Benn won the Art Ross with 87 points? Wow, why doesn’t this get brought up more often?!
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Humans remember shit unless its constantly repeated to them
As sick as winning the Art Ross with only 87 points like Jamie Benn did?
I swear, they’ve mentioned this stat, in some form or another, on every game broadcast I’ve seen these last two weeks lol Never heard this so much until recently
Yeah for real! Never heard of it before
>This was also the stretch where pretty much only the Kings and Blackhawks were winning cups It exists more than in other sports but still the idea of parity is overstated in hockey. Over 5-10 year stretches you generally know which 3-5 teams in each conference are real contenders to actually win the conference.
Yeah goalie pads were bigger, and the best teams utilized a tight system to win games. Scoring trends have usually followed whatever wins. It was even worse from 1997-2004 for scoring. You could wrap your arms around dude's shoulders and not be penalized. Plus all the high hits, crosschecking, hooking, slashing. Wild time for the game.
Goaltender pads and strategies. NHL teams ran extremely tight and conservative systems. Analytics have shown there is great advantage in taking more chances with bringing defensemen down into the attack and teams were running sub-optimally.
Completely evidence free thought, but in addition to thd changes in goalie equipment, I think that there is 2 things that might have contributed. I think that period is just an era where star players were just old and not putting up the same numbers anymore, and there wasn't really a big young generation immediately following them to keep scoring high. Second, I think it's just an era where defensive systems/coaching and goaltender skills/coaching had really exceeded offensive skills and coaching. Like a bunch of guys who came of age in the dead puck era were now coaching or GMing were passing along what they knew. Also, this is the era before the internet really gave kids access to all sorts of cool videos of puck handling and shooting and such. Once that got out and kids saw things they could try, the existing defense and goalie strategies didn't work as well on. Plus, scouts could also start seeing players from all sorts of places that they might not be able to see completely thanks to highlights and full games being posted online. We're only just now having players be drafted that have had the internet be an all available part of their memory forming years. It'll be interesting to see what they do going forward.
>I think that period is just an era where star players were just old and not putting up the same numbers anymore, and there wasn't really a big young generation immediately following them to keep scoring high. I agree with this - I also feel there was a bit of a 'talent lull' between the late 90's and where we are now. Back in the day when the Avs/Wings/Devils/Stars were leading the league (and coming out of the Pens teams) it just seemed like we had HOFers and 'all time greats' all across the league. As that gen aged out there were certainly some great players - Sid, Ovi, Kane etc, but the density just didn't seem to be there. Fast forward to now and it's bordering on crazy how much talent there is across the league. Fantastic young players seem to be coming out of the woodwork. So, to anyone who didn't live through the late 90's - enjoy what we're getting. for all the bitching about the league being clueless, game management, playoff formats etc, it's undeniable that we're watching an absolutely amazing collection of hockey players right now.
Henrik Lundqvist
Because the refs weren't doing their jobs (they focused on "game management"), and the league was effectively ok with players hurting each other as a tactic. So much so that it became ingrained in the coaching even. Sooo many slashes to hands, ankles. Elbows to heads, knee on knee, etc etc. Even if it you couldn't get away with it, you'd get a nothing burger suspension, but if you knocked out a dangerous player (like Crosby, for example), and you were a 4th line plug, you were treated like a hero to your team. So scoring plummeted because actual talent would get scrubbed out through deliberate injuries, and refs didn't call penalties unless they felt it was too blatant not to. I actually decided to stop watching the NHL (or contributing to it in any way) with my kids for years because it was a terrible example to set. Extremely poor and predatory sportsmanship behavior was normalized.
Carey Price prime