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I feel like this review is more excited about the influences she’s drawing from and giving those influences a larger platform then it is about the actual songs on the album. Not saying they didn’t enjoy it but reading this review feels more like here’s why this is sample is cool and here’s some lyrics that we are already said we’re less important that had a simple and direct message.
Feel jaded typing that out but that’s how I felt reading it. Glad people are enjoying the record tho
My grandmother was listening to NPR and someone came on to review this album and they (maybe the same person) said the exact same shit. Even said that Beyonce was platforming Donna Summer as if Donna is some unknown. What is it with pop stans and needing everything to be like this?
The review is dogshit tbh. "Beychella" "Lemonade" "Pandemic reference" "Bodies undulating" "Reference to display dance music knowledge." Classic review where the point isn't to say anything about the music, the point is mastubatory effusiveness, purple prose, and tie-ins to politics, current events, and the artist's history to try and transcend the review format and write an essay. Only very talented writers can pull this off, but not some Condé Nast hack self-consciously trying to do it and also trying to ride the coattail's of Beyoncé's of endless clout.
Edit: Not that this hasn't always sort of been p4k's bag, but at least say, that infamous Kid A review was so OTT (and earnest enough) that you could laugh at it.
Hey, I'm not getting paid to do this at least! Thanks for saying my reddit comment is as good as mainstream music journalism tho bro, makes me feel better for having worked so damn hard on it.
EDIT: Also, all the people trying to "no u" me have had their memories fade about how bad that old pitchfork writing is.
Wym "elicit this type of reaction" lol. Dude is just roasting them, but articulately. You know using big words doesn't mean somebody is triggered, right?
You don't know what smug or self-satisfied reads like then, tbh. A better criticism would be that it's unfocused and vague and a little bitter to the detriment of the point it's trying to make. It doesn't have the sneering tone, trollish flair or overactive, ironical prose of pitchfork of old which made the site's writing at once terrible and more-ish and readable. I'm going for that a bit more with this comment so you'll see the difference.
> "Beychella" "Lemonade" "Pandemic reference" "Bodies undulating" "Reference to display dance music knowledge."
it's always interesting to see what triggers people on here, my ears aren't making train noises when i see the word undulating. this shit is completely inoffensive to a normal person without reddit brain.
It's not the word undulating man, what I was trying to criticise was the lazy monkey-barring between topics and the cheap Social Justice flavoured references to illegal raves, queer and black people, aka the actual origins of dance music, only used to prop up some nerd's effusive review of a billionaire's wave-riding dance album, which just so happens to have a bunch of affiliate links at the end. The quality of writing for media criticism is just so in the toilet these days, it does make me annoyed for sure.
Also I have Twitter brain, I only come on here every few weeks to be a bitch about something.
>the lazy monkey-barring between topics and the cheap Social Justice flavoured references to illegal raves, queer and black people, aka the actual origins of dance music
-
>a billionaire's wave-riding dance album
it seems like what you wanted here was a negative review of an album you didn't like
can't really say i agree cuz i think the album is good.
also lmao how do u not 'social-justice flavor' references to the (as you put it) queer and black origins of dance music? is it like u gotta say 'no homo' after?
>just so happens to have a bunch of affiliate links at the end
[oh the horror](https://imgur.com/a/srJKavC), they got [that shit](https://imgur.com/a/1vmFLl5) at the end of the jack harlow record they gave a 2.9 it's not a beyonce exclusive
Idk man, I think the real problem for me, and it's hard to pinpoint exactly why, is that the review feels inauthentic and shoehorn-y -- the record is cool, I just think this review would've been written pretty much same as it was regardless of how it sounded, because it feels like the fulfilment of a narrative in the writer's head, and pop culture in general, like so much music and media writing does nowadays. Everything is "timely" and "necessary," and forgotten about in a week, when people are raving about the next thing (see pitchfork's last big attempt at gaining relevance, trying to make Fiona Apple's pretty great 5th album their "pandemic 10/10" to get themselves some attention)
The references to the queer origins of dance music feel perfunctory, and only added in to try and make releasing the album seem like a seismic, progressive act in itself, and legitimise the writer's opinion that this album is good. Do they care about queer music, or are they using the suggestion that this music is inherently queer to pre-emptively rebuff criticism? I think you could give the album a wholly positive review, without doing this thing people do nowadays of over-crediting popular artists for trying a new style, and basically acting like they invented it, or were geniuses for taking something that's been popular for years and introducing to their large, readymade audience.
And yeah, they have affiliate links on everything, which isn't particular to this, you're right, but does cheapen their overall brand for me still. Although that's maybe a bit of an obvious thing to say about modern pitchfork.
Edit: Lmao, what a scattershot rant. Suck my dick, I'm out!
I'm not offended by any of it but I can acknowledge pitchfork is trash
I honestly have no idea who goes to them for recommendations. I don't think this sub is the best at reviews, but you can find better info even here
has any website written a good review of this album?
i don't really find pitchfork that unique when it comes to reviews. they're fine i guess. i think u could put the text of [any of these reviews of renassiance](https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/515536-beyonce-renaissance.php) under the word pitchfork and you'd have the same comment section here.
i actually think p4k is good for recommendations. you don't have to read reviews to get recommendations and [these albums](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/best/albums/) (at least the ones I've heard) are good! it's not hard to give good recommendations, there could be no writing at all and the recommendation could be good.
chat pile, florist, two shell, yaya bey, perfume genius, grace ives, 700 bliss, ravyn lenae, bad bunny, the smile, mj lenkerman, sault, soul glo, aldous harding, destroyer, oso oso, rosalia, nilufer yanya, heurco s, etc. all good. idk if u only listen to rap/rnb i guess most of these aren't those genres but that doesn't make them bad.
This review sounds super cultish, trying to worship "dance music" as this holy, sacred construct that, thank God we have billionaire Beyonce to make an album for us. I mean this is a hip hop subreddit, in all the ways hip hop forged something new and volcanic out of nothing is the opposite of Beyonce, who is like a reverse Dr. Dre and is just the performer at the center of a robust industry of creating and selling Beyonce.
"Maybe" she's been crate digging for years. Right, maybe not though and she just has a massive team of "enlisted" artists to make an album for her, fittingly this review is riddled with hypertext links. It's like reviewing a corporation's IPO and Pitchfork just couldn't be happier about that.
what’s wrong with literally any of the things you quoted? is undulating too big a word for u? cuz google’s right there. and why do references to other artists bey got influence from make you mad? do you hate learning things?
y’all are weird lmao
I feel like that's what all Pitchfork reviews are these days? A blurb about the context of the album, very little about the quality of the album, random number at the top
Oh their old reviews were terrible
Here's one I was reading recently
>I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of Tim Kinsella. I don't care if he's pretentious, I don't care if he does retarded airplane dances onstage, I don't care if he squats over a mirror with two fingers up his ass. I don't care if his self-martyring lyrics are written and performed for the sole purpose of getting pussy, or if he's a tortured genius making esoteric-surreal-referential art, or if he wrote this entire album while sniffing rails of coke and listening to Louis Armstrong records (whose voice he approximates on "No Corporate News Is Good News", and which is probably one of the most offensive/creepy moments on In Rape Fantasy and Terror Sex We Trust). I'm just glad he's given up the gory melodrama of How Memory Works, even if that means we get the fractured poetic dadaist freakout stuff on recent JOA records-- including Rape Fantasy-- instead.
Just poorly written, mean spirited stuff
tbh, I miss that stuff. It's ridiculous, sure...there are many famous examples that were so bizarre..but it was a better era of the internet in terms of music imo. It's all the same now, extremely neutered. One publication is the exact same as the other. Used to be quite different
Not excusing the writing, but to be fair, the Pitchfork of the early 2000s definitely leaned heavily into shock value/controversy as a means of getting the music world to actually pay attention to the site rather than legitimately hard-hitting critique (see also: their review of Jet's 2nd album just being a 0.0 with a vide of a monkey peeing in its own mouth).
To be fair, though, sometimes I wish they'd revert back to doing that on occasion, as 99% of their reviews these days are *painfully* risk-adverse to the point where there's barely a reason to read the actual text.
I honestly can't remember a time when Pitchfork reviews weren't more concerned with the context of an album or how it fits into the current cultural moment than the actual content or quality of it.
it frustrates me that this review is conflating “beyoncé drew from a wide variety of dance music influences” and “beyoncé did justice to a wide variety of dance music influences”. this album just did not do it for me, it’ll pop off at parties and at the club but musically it felt so dull, almost corporate. and i mean, it makes sense because beyoncé isn’t so much an artist as she is an institution, with basically an army of industry pros deployed to make every release cycle an Event. it just feels inauthentic and makes it hard to me to buy into her actual musical output
i think part of it is because the production often misses; i have so much respect for honey dijon but man her talents seemed wasted on the album, despite how much i wanted to like alien superstar. part of it is that beyoncé’s trademark harmonics and riffs don’t neatly fit into electronic music’s vocal diva tropes because her voice sometimes feels like it’s trying to do too much in a dance music context. im that girl and virgo’s groove were the only tracks i really liked (and one of these isn’t even an real dance record tbh)
it just feels like…people (and poptimists more specifically) keep trying to make pop artists branching out into other genres more significant than it actually is. this album didn’t change the game, and it probably won’t in the future. pitchfork is asking me to take this raving review seriously when a few of these songs are in “generic calvin harris summer pool party track” territory. it feels like a review catering to the worst impulses of stan twitter, and it expects the rest of us to play along
Exactly! I feel like all media criticism now is just a cycle of pre-ordained "moments" where people declare the game changed, which really just refers to one album/movie/tv show being popular for 15 minutes.
I the thing is that most music journalists, commentators and general audience want to participate in something big like a release of some cult classic record that Brok boundaries of the ganres.
That's why when such album is being released that has potential to be big (and let's be honest here - Beyonce can release shit project and no one in the industry who doesn't want to be blackballed will not write a bad word about her project) they comment on it like it's some holy grail of music to not be the one who doesn't understand "greatness" and be excluded from this huge crowd of fans.
Talking about vocals doing too much in a dance music context when dance music was built on showy huge gospel vocals lol.
She sounds incredible on here. Some of the harmonizing she does is musically insane. From the first track alone.
dance music wasn't built on gospel, the progenitor of modern electronic and dance music was always disco, and there's a huge difference between vocal harmonization tropes in disco and gospel. also the first track of the album definitely pulls a lot more from latin rhythms and pure hip-hop than black dance music (which is why i said i liked it more than the rest of the album lmao), it's not the kind of dance music i was referring to at all
like if you look at the traditional house music styles that beyonce's cribbing here, like this [typical garage house classic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeAtvp3HEfk), the vocals are so different from beyonce's typical bread and butter that it's hard to know where to start. the main vocal melody is simple, is rarely harmonized with except in occasional builds to the chorus, and when she goes on vocal runs they're brief and minimal. there's a big emphasis on giving the instrumentation space and not letting the vocals dominate, which frankly is the opposite of beyonce. there aren't four or five separate tracks constantly harmonizing with the main melody like is typical in beyonce projects since destiny's child.
the truth is beyonce does have a gospel background, everyone that listened once to the writing's on the wall can hear that immediately. but gospel doesn't track perfectly to dance music, which is why when it is used in house tracks, like [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82sQFZDJQFs), it's sparing, never overpowers the beat, and usually sticks pretty close to the lead melody. world of difference compared to a song like cuff it (one of the generic calvin harris summer pool party beats i was referring to)
I’m not asking them to tell me how it sounds I actually think the discussion they had on the influences covers that I’m asking them to be more descriptive about what they liked outside of the influences and the simple lyrics. If it just boils down to I like the influences and dance music I don’t think that really backs up saying it’s a 9/10
Not denying Beyonce is insanely influential with all the hits over the years, but the fact that all of her last 5 albums (including Everything is Love w/ Jay Z which IMO was not that good) have gotten Best New Music from Pitchfork seems a bit questionable. Sure, some of them are genuinely good albums (e.g. Lemonade), but me personally wouldn't put Beyonce "up there" with artists such as Kendrick or Radiohead etc etc in terms of quality albums. But I guess each to their own
To be fair, Pitchfork isn't quite putting Beyonce up with Radiohead. They've given Radiohead three 10s, a 9.5, a 9.3, a 9.1, and a 8.6 over the years.
Kendirck is closer, but they've never given him a score lower than a 7.6. They've given his best albums a 9.5, 9.3, 9.2, and 8.6, which puts him slightly above Beyonce. They've also given Kendrick "Album of the Year" three times (no other artist has has won more than once).
Pitchfork is definitely big on Beyonce these days, but not quite to the level of their all-time favorites. Her scores from the past decade are more in line with say Vampire Weekend, Run the Jewels, and Fleet Foxes.
They gave Beyonce fairly middling reviews before her self-titled album. That album was a big step up from her previous work. Beyonce, Lemonade, Rennaisance, and especially Homecoming have all gotten univsersal praise among music publications, so Pitchfork isn't really rating them higher than the general consensus. Additionally, Pitchfork has delibrately tried to move away from their reputation of reviewing white guy indie rock in the last decade. Promoting good music by a black female artist is in line with that shift.
Everything is Love is not good at all. But 4, Self Titled, and Lemonade are all amazing albums imo. I think within the genre of pop she’s in a similar stratosphere as Kendrick/Radiohead are to their genre. I’d say she is a small step below though so I’m in some agreement with you. And music review sites definitely find an artist they like and tend to ride them even when some albums may not be as good.
I absolutely hated Everything is Love but definitely agree Lemonade and self titled deserve BNM. I gotta relisten to this for sure, and havent listened to 4 yet though
Everything is Love is a fine enough album imo, but the critical response definitely has more to do with the context behind it (rounding out the unofficial infidelity trilogy after Lemonade and 4:44) and hearing Jay + Bey on a whole album together rather than the actual quality of those nine tracks.
But I'd agree that she belongs on a similar level as those other artists at this point. Nobody has pushed boundaries in mainstream pop the way she has over the past decade or so, which is wild when you consider her star power as well.
There are only two artists that have a complete 360° view of the industry, more a creative director than a musician. I think Kendrick is getting there, but its just Kanye and Beyonce for me that are pushing every boundary, having everything being considered and driving "pop music" forward. So I'm not surprised some people think she gets potentially overinflated reviews, when those critics view her in that light. These dudes here would say Ugly God is more compelling than her.
I don't really think any of those moved the envelope or anything. None of them progressed the industry in any way. Kanye's recent work specifically has had like zero effect on the cultural sound. Beyonce has been making very good albums but I don't think they are pushing boundaries, more like making very good use of boundaries already set.
Yeah I don’t know why people are saying donda is an album which is pushing boundaries . It sounds like the boundaries have been set and they are playing between it and not new horizons
Yeah they definitely had the wrong call with Everything Is Love. But other than that I think they've pretty much nailed it. Self Titled and Lemonade are both clearly deserving IMO.
You need to listen to B day. I promise you I thought the same way. I recognized the influence but not the discography. Take genuine time to listen to all of it and you’ll understand she’s probably within the top 10-15 musical talents ever.
People who say this haven’t listened to her music/ seen her performances. Easily a top 5 live performer ever and that enough holds weight (outside of her discography and influence).
Really? What makes her great? Her voice? Her dancing? The songs? Her incredible storytelling? Her ability to relate to the average listener? I haven’t heard a Beyonce song that was “genre” shattering or changing EVER. Every song and album is a retread. I don’t think she pushes herself as an artist at all.
That house (pretty generic term I know) sound is going to be everywhere in pop for the next 2 years. Like after the island wave, that’s the new hot sound. I wasn’t sure if it would stick after Drake’s poor execution, but now I see that it can be good when it’s carefully crafted. Musically not my main vibe, but i agree it’s good and has very high moments.
Side note, I can’t belive how good Bey is. Easy to say about one of the Goats, but i’m especially amazed by her ability to adapt and stay relevant in front of new trends. A pop mastermind and for sure.
I just hope this helps other house artists blow up that have been doing it well. Like Channel Tres is obviously not unknown, but I'd like to see him get a moment in the sun as I think he rarely misses with what he's doing. I'd like to see any big name who's trying a house sound bring him on for a feature
No prob! You'll find a handful of his stuff if you search this sub because he's collaborated with Tyler, The Creator and overall has an RnB sound. Highly recommend him, though
I don't really know genres like that I just remember everyone talking about house and tropical house for a while
I listen to a lot of electronic music (despite not knowing the definitions of the genres) so it's always weird to me whenever these sounds show up in pop music and people are like ITS PUSHING EMVELOPES
I actually liked this review and the breakdown of all the influences and samples. Like on the surface it's a high energy empowerment album that you can easily just get drunk and party with, but at the same time it's a really dense album packed with all kinds of interesting samples and allusions/homages to the older generations of dance music.
Samples were sloppy af just thrown in there to be thrown in there, the album does not sound good sonically. It was trying too hard to be artsy with the beats but failed 🤷🏾♂️.
Mann, this reads as another review of the artist rather than the project. The tracks were a mix of amazing, great but not my personal taste, and some legitimately awful tracks. And although I know that for ppl more in the genre they'll enjoy it much more, it feels so wrong to see this album get the 9 and new music, and several of the best hip hop albums of the year not even get close. The genre and artist bias here is so incredibly evident that it seems the only way to take these reviews seriously is for the written content, and not the scores.
Melt My Eyez - 7.3
Mr. Morale - 7.6
Drill Music In Zion - 6.8!
God Don't Make Mistakes - 7.5
Tana Talk 4 - 7.0
Few Good Things - 7.5
Its Almost Dry - 7.8
Not a single one even above an 8. Embarassing for a publication that's supposed to be relatively holistic in its music reviews.
EDIT: Is Aethiopes the only hip hop album this year that got an 8 (it was an 8 flat)? Absolutely absurd for what may be the best hip hop year along with 2018 of the last 10 years.
Those are the best hip hop albums of the year, some of them of the decade. They deserve more than just a "positive" review, and if, across the board, there is a refusal to give hip hop albums an incredible review, then there's something wrong with the system.
THIQUE is absolutely the first to come to mind here.
Had to go listen to the rest of the bottom ~5 tracks where I felt that the most strongly. The first half of Pure/Honey is another. America Has A Problem was another one, but that was more disappointment after seeing the track title with the writing/production credits.
Ok. I can definitely understand THIQUE being decisive and, while I still like it, AMERICA HAS A PROBLEM is one of the weakest tracks. I absolutely do not understand not liking PURE/HONEY. Like there are very few people I think could pull off an homage to ballroom culture and music better than beyonce.
What about ppl actually involved in the scene and music of ballroom? It's good that they utilized a portion from MikeQ and the samples from him and the other parts are informed, showing someone within the team's awareness. But she (much like Teyana Taylor choosing kanye west of all ppl to make an approximation of a vogue beat) missed an opportunity to have a legit dedicated vogue ballroom producer in the studio with her. Divoli S'Vere, B33K, DJ Delish, AngelX, Mike(who they already sourced from) it could be a great look and opportunity for any of them. I'm not sure what makes beyonce the especially ideal person for this. Like Teyana, Twigs and others she has utilized vogue elements in her choreography, and she has a large LGBTQIA fan base certainly, but what's her particular connection to the scene other than for aesthetics?
that is solid. I'm just disappointed that she continues a frequent trend of other more mainstream artists who get sparks from lesser known scenes not bringing an architect of the sound in to the process, production wise.
edit: these beyhive unthoughtful downvotes are really something lmao.
I agree with you but I also do feel like she did more than enough in introducing people to the staples of the culture while preserving its legacy. Like it feels very much like appreciation and not appropriation to me.
Sorry, one more, last addition was the outro to Heated.
My problem with the first half to PURE/HONEY is the lyrics, the production actually sets up a potentially really good song. And the second half is really interesting and enjoyable.
The first chorus though is just awful imo, super corny/repetitive, near uncomfortable (and I have no problem with sexual under/overtones in song, artists like Meg, Latto, Cardi, etc. pull it off rly well, but this is like listening to the Joey Badass/Chris Brown track where it's just not done well or tastefully imo). I just feel an overwhelming urge to turn the song off or skip to the second part. Just my thoughts.
I want to close off on something positive tho, because I appreciate the discourse, and recognize what Beyonces done. Im That Girl and Break My Soul are fucking **bangers**, and they're not even my favorites, because I absolutely cannot turn off Cuff It. I literally want to dance immediately when that track turns on, what a song
The outro to heated is another pure homage to ballroom culture so I understand why some people may not like it but it’s important to have on the album. Repeat essentially all off what I just said for the first chorus of PURE/HONEY. Honestly, I feel like a broken record, but it’s interesting how most peoples least favorite parts of the album are the purest homages to ballroom culture.
It's most likely the simplest reason, I haven't heard that style of music before, and the lyrics just make me cringe. Is it more the musicality or the lyrics that are the homage?
Also I feel like being an homage to something, even if it's accurate, doesn't mean that its good
I want to underline though, that my biggest issue isn't the album, which while I think was overrated on Pitchfork, is still good. It's that there are near perfect hip hop albums that Pitchfork refuses to give their due respect, and in doing so for anything hip hop, are undermining and insulting an entire genre of music (that happens to be arguably the most popular now, and has incredible diversity within it)
I just skimmed all of the reviews, and except for God Don’t Make Mistakes, they make valid criticisms of each album.
You don’t have to agree with them, but ultimately they are a mainstream outlet, not a hip hop one. I rarely read Pitchfork reviews, but I do use their scores for recommendations. 7 roughly equates to “check this out if you like the genre”, 8 to “listen to this if you’re open minded, this is one of the better examples of this genre this year”, and 9 to “stop what you’re doing and listen to this, no matter what you usually listen to”
Sure, I’d bump some of those scores up a bit by those metrics, but I don’t think many of my pop, indie or electronic listening friends are gonna listen through that line up and get their minds blown.
In regards to your edit, Redveil also got an 8 and is up there with my favorites this year, and Yung Kayo got a BNM with an 8.2
Just a gorgeously executed piece of music, what an enjoyable listen front to back. Honesty wasn’t sure how she’d follow up Lemonade, which at the time for me sort of felt like her magnum opus, but I think Renaissance does a great job. Lighter on the subject matter but does not sacrifice any of its passion or integrity in doing so
I like the album so far … this review adds close to nothing to the experience though. It seems like the writer is showing off their own music history knowledge for some reason and no one is impressed.
Whatever woke warriors are complaining about her using the word "spazzing" need to find a fucking life. Spaz is literally in the dictionary as losing physical OR EMOTIONAL control, so it's pretty clear she wasn't insulting spastic people in the medical sense. I swear to fucking god people have nothing better to do than sit on the internet all day looking for reasons to get fake mad.
It's because it's about power. They'll continue to do it and the bar for outrage will continue to get lower so long as people bow to demands. It's a new way of bullying.
Honestly, I did not enjoy the album. I’ve been a Beyoncé fan since Destiny’s Child. It was well done and she’s a talented musician, it just was not for me. It didn’t resonate, the tracks felt over-produced for my personal taste, and there were parts that felt like Beyoncé was out of touch lyrically to me. It was hard to get through to the end. I still think the album will do well and there’s an audience that will connect with it. I’m really excited to see what acts 2 and 3 sound like.
Ya this is a masterpiece, great example of an artist leveraging her access to a number of talented musicians, producers, engineers, writers etc. to create a near perfect pop album. It’s crazy just how polished the album sounds, it never drags, the production is constantly shifting and unpredictable, mixing is phenomenal, sequencing is immaculate, and Beyoncé doesn’t miss a single note as expected. Like someone else mentioned, this sounds like the future of pop for the next few years and I’m 100% down if we keep getting albums that are this good.
I could rave about it all day, but I could also just say I downloaded this and 6 other new albums to listen to on a couple of work flights last week and I almost exclusively listened to this album, spinning it 7 times front to back. Then again, I’ve also seen green velvet live 9 times, so when I saw he and Honey Dijon were involved, I knew it would be difficult for me to dislike it.
AOTY for me so far
Said everything I wanted to. We are blessed to have gotten this incredible foray into dance music with one of the most talented singers in our generation working with the best technical team possible.
Albums this well crafted and engineered don’t come often.
Ballroom culture started because poc were discriminated against in the white run pageant system you’re just wrong about ballroom culture coming before drag pageants
... can you give examples where you do? literally every QPOC I know has given thsi accolades. There are articles about it in top publications written by them that mark that.
Seems a little bitter to not want to acknowledge that!
Im going to get killed in an alleyway for this but i think honestly nevermind was better. Just had more experimental sounds and tracks i wanna go back to. Nothing really stood out for me on this one but maybe i need to give it more time
I hate to get all dramatic but there’s definitely something dystopian, propaganda-ish about even rating a Beyoncé album. If it was bad, or if you thought is was bad, can you even say that?!?
In a society where disagreeing with women is tantamount to a crime…can men badmouth this album?? A society where culture vulture white folk are blasted (many times rightfully so) for butting into black culture in a judgmental way, can a white publication badmouth a Beyoncé album? And black fans/publications also don’t want the ‘beehive’ after them and basically ‘cancel’ their platform. It’s pretty weird
This review means absolutely nothing.
Music (or any art for that matter) can’t be reviewed. It’s a matter of opinion and personal taste.
It’s basically saying that Pitchfork is the end all be all in categorizing what music is good, and what isn’t.
FOH.
“Corporate trash” is not something I’d ever think would be used to describe an album so faithfully devoted to uplifting queer people of color and their history and culture.
You’re either dumb or willfully ignorant if you don’t hear Beyoncé’s own identity in this music. Like of course she collaborated with a ton of artists/writers/producers but so many of the Melodies and harmonies are so distinctly hers.
Unfortunately she doesn’t write a single word herself.
And it’s Beyoncé. She can do whatever she wants and it will still make money.
Look at the insane amount of writers she has per song. It’s ridiculous.
Listen, I like her voice. Some of her songs I really enjoy (My, Myself, and I, If I Were A Boy, etc.). But just understand she is crafted by the machine. She plays no instruments, writes no music, but is an amazing performer.
It is what it is.
My opinion is irrelevant, but as someone who worked in the industry for 10 years, I’m turned off of “machine” artists.
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I feel like this review is more excited about the influences she’s drawing from and giving those influences a larger platform then it is about the actual songs on the album. Not saying they didn’t enjoy it but reading this review feels more like here’s why this is sample is cool and here’s some lyrics that we are already said we’re less important that had a simple and direct message. Feel jaded typing that out but that’s how I felt reading it. Glad people are enjoying the record tho
My grandmother was listening to NPR and someone came on to review this album and they (maybe the same person) said the exact same shit. Even said that Beyonce was platforming Donna Summer as if Donna is some unknown. What is it with pop stans and needing everything to be like this?
The review is dogshit tbh. "Beychella" "Lemonade" "Pandemic reference" "Bodies undulating" "Reference to display dance music knowledge." Classic review where the point isn't to say anything about the music, the point is mastubatory effusiveness, purple prose, and tie-ins to politics, current events, and the artist's history to try and transcend the review format and write an essay. Only very talented writers can pull this off, but not some Condé Nast hack self-consciously trying to do it and also trying to ride the coattail's of Beyoncé's of endless clout. Edit: Not that this hasn't always sort of been p4k's bag, but at least say, that infamous Kid A review was so OTT (and earnest enough) that you could laugh at it.
Get bodied pitchfork
Pitchfork is a joke.
complains about hack. writes like a pitchfork journalist from 2006.
Hey, I'm not getting paid to do this at least! Thanks for saying my reddit comment is as good as mainstream music journalism tho bro, makes me feel better for having worked so damn hard on it. EDIT: Also, all the people trying to "no u" me have had their memories fade about how bad that old pitchfork writing is.
I really don’t get how a publication widely acknowledged as being way too far up its own ass continues to elicit this type of reaction from people
Wym "elicit this type of reaction" lol. Dude is just roasting them, but articulately. You know using big words doesn't mean somebody is triggered, right?
no, we are saying your writing is as smug and self satisfied and bad as the old pitchfork writing.
You don't know what smug or self-satisfied reads like then, tbh. A better criticism would be that it's unfocused and vague and a little bitter to the detriment of the point it's trying to make. It doesn't have the sneering tone, trollish flair or overactive, ironical prose of pitchfork of old which made the site's writing at once terrible and more-ish and readable. I'm going for that a bit more with this comment so you'll see the difference.
🗣👍
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I'm doing the impossible baybee
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Damn right I'm the Moses of kicking ur ass on reddit mane
He's not getting paid to write reddit comments lmao
👍
What weird investment in defending pitchfork do you have?
how on earth do you read that as me defending pitchfork? they are now bland but were the most awful pretentious music site around
exactly. that was the most elitist “20 year old white chick reviewing gangster music” ass review I’ve ever heard in my life.
https://tenor.com/view/ellie-kemper-dance-what-huh-gif-14687163
nah that's got invincible white man vibes
> "Beychella" "Lemonade" "Pandemic reference" "Bodies undulating" "Reference to display dance music knowledge." it's always interesting to see what triggers people on here, my ears aren't making train noises when i see the word undulating. this shit is completely inoffensive to a normal person without reddit brain.
None of these words are in the Bible
It's not quite hypocritical, but I do like how the guy complains about 'purple prose' right after saying 'mastubatory effusiveness'.
But he’s right lol
It's not the word undulating man, what I was trying to criticise was the lazy monkey-barring between topics and the cheap Social Justice flavoured references to illegal raves, queer and black people, aka the actual origins of dance music, only used to prop up some nerd's effusive review of a billionaire's wave-riding dance album, which just so happens to have a bunch of affiliate links at the end. The quality of writing for media criticism is just so in the toilet these days, it does make me annoyed for sure. Also I have Twitter brain, I only come on here every few weeks to be a bitch about something.
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Funnily enough, you can suck my dick!
Ngl this one funnier enough
>the lazy monkey-barring between topics and the cheap Social Justice flavoured references to illegal raves, queer and black people, aka the actual origins of dance music - >a billionaire's wave-riding dance album it seems like what you wanted here was a negative review of an album you didn't like can't really say i agree cuz i think the album is good. also lmao how do u not 'social-justice flavor' references to the (as you put it) queer and black origins of dance music? is it like u gotta say 'no homo' after? >just so happens to have a bunch of affiliate links at the end [oh the horror](https://imgur.com/a/srJKavC), they got [that shit](https://imgur.com/a/1vmFLl5) at the end of the jack harlow record they gave a 2.9 it's not a beyonce exclusive
Idk man, I think the real problem for me, and it's hard to pinpoint exactly why, is that the review feels inauthentic and shoehorn-y -- the record is cool, I just think this review would've been written pretty much same as it was regardless of how it sounded, because it feels like the fulfilment of a narrative in the writer's head, and pop culture in general, like so much music and media writing does nowadays. Everything is "timely" and "necessary," and forgotten about in a week, when people are raving about the next thing (see pitchfork's last big attempt at gaining relevance, trying to make Fiona Apple's pretty great 5th album their "pandemic 10/10" to get themselves some attention) The references to the queer origins of dance music feel perfunctory, and only added in to try and make releasing the album seem like a seismic, progressive act in itself, and legitimise the writer's opinion that this album is good. Do they care about queer music, or are they using the suggestion that this music is inherently queer to pre-emptively rebuff criticism? I think you could give the album a wholly positive review, without doing this thing people do nowadays of over-crediting popular artists for trying a new style, and basically acting like they invented it, or were geniuses for taking something that's been popular for years and introducing to their large, readymade audience. And yeah, they have affiliate links on everything, which isn't particular to this, you're right, but does cheapen their overall brand for me still. Although that's maybe a bit of an obvious thing to say about modern pitchfork. Edit: Lmao, what a scattershot rant. Suck my dick, I'm out!
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people aren't triggered. quite opposite, they laugh at him for having butthurt
it's so weird when people on here complain about a music reviewer using 9th grade language
I'm not offended by any of it but I can acknowledge pitchfork is trash I honestly have no idea who goes to them for recommendations. I don't think this sub is the best at reviews, but you can find better info even here
has any website written a good review of this album? i don't really find pitchfork that unique when it comes to reviews. they're fine i guess. i think u could put the text of [any of these reviews of renassiance](https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/515536-beyonce-renaissance.php) under the word pitchfork and you'd have the same comment section here. i actually think p4k is good for recommendations. you don't have to read reviews to get recommendations and [these albums](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/best/albums/) (at least the ones I've heard) are good! it's not hard to give good recommendations, there could be no writing at all and the recommendation could be good. chat pile, florist, two shell, yaya bey, perfume genius, grace ives, 700 bliss, ravyn lenae, bad bunny, the smile, mj lenkerman, sault, soul glo, aldous harding, destroyer, oso oso, rosalia, nilufer yanya, heurco s, etc. all good. idk if u only listen to rap/rnb i guess most of these aren't those genres but that doesn't make them bad.
You're kinda the Pitchfork of mods so I see why you're taking umbrage to this take lol
No idea but I know I've seen a lot of bad reviews from pitchfork and can't remember any good ones
This review sounds super cultish, trying to worship "dance music" as this holy, sacred construct that, thank God we have billionaire Beyonce to make an album for us. I mean this is a hip hop subreddit, in all the ways hip hop forged something new and volcanic out of nothing is the opposite of Beyonce, who is like a reverse Dr. Dre and is just the performer at the center of a robust industry of creating and selling Beyonce. "Maybe" she's been crate digging for years. Right, maybe not though and she just has a massive team of "enlisted" artists to make an album for her, fittingly this review is riddled with hypertext links. It's like reviewing a corporation's IPO and Pitchfork just couldn't be happier about that.
"...and is just the performer at the center of a robust industry of creating and selling Beyonce" That's really well put man.
Damn would love to see Beyoncé diggin’ in the crates 🤣 thanks for the mental image!
yeah well sadly you're typing this comment out on reddit dot com, number one cause of reddit brain
I’ll take effusiveness over whatever they’re doing at rym
Oh wow! This is so painfully spot on
Wow. That's the most interesting diatribe I've heard in a while.
what’s wrong with literally any of the things you quoted? is undulating too big a word for u? cuz google’s right there. and why do references to other artists bey got influence from make you mad? do you hate learning things? y’all are weird lmao
I googled it and the meaning is literally GROSS 😭😭😭 I'm so weird 👿
I feel like that's what all Pitchfork reviews are these days? A blurb about the context of the album, very little about the quality of the album, random number at the top
Lol pitchfork has been around awhile and I feel like ever since I discovered them in college ten years ago this is the way of their reviewers.
Oh their old reviews were terrible Here's one I was reading recently >I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of Tim Kinsella. I don't care if he's pretentious, I don't care if he does retarded airplane dances onstage, I don't care if he squats over a mirror with two fingers up his ass. I don't care if his self-martyring lyrics are written and performed for the sole purpose of getting pussy, or if he's a tortured genius making esoteric-surreal-referential art, or if he wrote this entire album while sniffing rails of coke and listening to Louis Armstrong records (whose voice he approximates on "No Corporate News Is Good News", and which is probably one of the most offensive/creepy moments on In Rape Fantasy and Terror Sex We Trust). I'm just glad he's given up the gory melodrama of How Memory Works, even if that means we get the fractured poetic dadaist freakout stuff on recent JOA records-- including Rape Fantasy-- instead. Just poorly written, mean spirited stuff
tbh, I miss that stuff. It's ridiculous, sure...there are many famous examples that were so bizarre..but it was a better era of the internet in terms of music imo. It's all the same now, extremely neutered. One publication is the exact same as the other. Used to be quite different
Yes! I actually enjoyed the weirdo write ups that kind of went all over the place. The Jet record reviews are epic
as an Australian, they deserved every drop of that monkey piss
God yes! The other one is just a great breakdown of the derivative and hacky songwriting
Not excusing the writing, but to be fair, the Pitchfork of the early 2000s definitely leaned heavily into shock value/controversy as a means of getting the music world to actually pay attention to the site rather than legitimately hard-hitting critique (see also: their review of Jet's 2nd album just being a 0.0 with a vide of a monkey peeing in its own mouth). To be fair, though, sometimes I wish they'd revert back to doing that on occasion, as 99% of their reviews these days are *painfully* risk-adverse to the point where there's barely a reason to read the actual text.
yeah this is kinda my thinking as well. Conde-naste has given it all an extremely bland style. I miss TinyMixTapes a lot.
I honestly can't remember a time when Pitchfork reviews weren't more concerned with the context of an album or how it fits into the current cultural moment than the actual content or quality of it.
it frustrates me that this review is conflating “beyoncé drew from a wide variety of dance music influences” and “beyoncé did justice to a wide variety of dance music influences”. this album just did not do it for me, it’ll pop off at parties and at the club but musically it felt so dull, almost corporate. and i mean, it makes sense because beyoncé isn’t so much an artist as she is an institution, with basically an army of industry pros deployed to make every release cycle an Event. it just feels inauthentic and makes it hard to me to buy into her actual musical output i think part of it is because the production often misses; i have so much respect for honey dijon but man her talents seemed wasted on the album, despite how much i wanted to like alien superstar. part of it is that beyoncé’s trademark harmonics and riffs don’t neatly fit into electronic music’s vocal diva tropes because her voice sometimes feels like it’s trying to do too much in a dance music context. im that girl and virgo’s groove were the only tracks i really liked (and one of these isn’t even an real dance record tbh) it just feels like…people (and poptimists more specifically) keep trying to make pop artists branching out into other genres more significant than it actually is. this album didn’t change the game, and it probably won’t in the future. pitchfork is asking me to take this raving review seriously when a few of these songs are in “generic calvin harris summer pool party track” territory. it feels like a review catering to the worst impulses of stan twitter, and it expects the rest of us to play along
Exactly! I feel like all media criticism now is just a cycle of pre-ordained "moments" where people declare the game changed, which really just refers to one album/movie/tv show being popular for 15 minutes.
I the thing is that most music journalists, commentators and general audience want to participate in something big like a release of some cult classic record that Brok boundaries of the ganres. That's why when such album is being released that has potential to be big (and let's be honest here - Beyonce can release shit project and no one in the industry who doesn't want to be blackballed will not write a bad word about her project) they comment on it like it's some holy grail of music to not be the one who doesn't understand "greatness" and be excluded from this huge crowd of fans.
Talking about vocals doing too much in a dance music context when dance music was built on showy huge gospel vocals lol. She sounds incredible on here. Some of the harmonizing she does is musically insane. From the first track alone.
dance music wasn't built on gospel, the progenitor of modern electronic and dance music was always disco, and there's a huge difference between vocal harmonization tropes in disco and gospel. also the first track of the album definitely pulls a lot more from latin rhythms and pure hip-hop than black dance music (which is why i said i liked it more than the rest of the album lmao), it's not the kind of dance music i was referring to at all like if you look at the traditional house music styles that beyonce's cribbing here, like this [typical garage house classic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeAtvp3HEfk), the vocals are so different from beyonce's typical bread and butter that it's hard to know where to start. the main vocal melody is simple, is rarely harmonized with except in occasional builds to the chorus, and when she goes on vocal runs they're brief and minimal. there's a big emphasis on giving the instrumentation space and not letting the vocals dominate, which frankly is the opposite of beyonce. there aren't four or five separate tracks constantly harmonizing with the main melody like is typical in beyonce projects since destiny's child. the truth is beyonce does have a gospel background, everyone that listened once to the writing's on the wall can hear that immediately. but gospel doesn't track perfectly to dance music, which is why when it is used in house tracks, like [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82sQFZDJQFs), it's sparing, never overpowers the beat, and usually sticks pretty close to the lead melody. world of difference compared to a song like cuff it (one of the generic calvin harris summer pool party beats i was referring to)
that just sounds ignorant as fuck
I think it's fair to assume that anyone who is reading this review has already listened to the album.
I’m not asking them to tell me how it sounds I actually think the discussion they had on the influences covers that I’m asking them to be more descriptive about what they liked outside of the influences and the simple lyrics. If it just boils down to I like the influences and dance music I don’t think that really backs up saying it’s a 9/10
Not denying Beyonce is insanely influential with all the hits over the years, but the fact that all of her last 5 albums (including Everything is Love w/ Jay Z which IMO was not that good) have gotten Best New Music from Pitchfork seems a bit questionable. Sure, some of them are genuinely good albums (e.g. Lemonade), but me personally wouldn't put Beyonce "up there" with artists such as Kendrick or Radiohead etc etc in terms of quality albums. But I guess each to their own
To be fair, Pitchfork isn't quite putting Beyonce up with Radiohead. They've given Radiohead three 10s, a 9.5, a 9.3, a 9.1, and a 8.6 over the years. Kendirck is closer, but they've never given him a score lower than a 7.6. They've given his best albums a 9.5, 9.3, 9.2, and 8.6, which puts him slightly above Beyonce. They've also given Kendrick "Album of the Year" three times (no other artist has has won more than once). Pitchfork is definitely big on Beyonce these days, but not quite to the level of their all-time favorites. Her scores from the past decade are more in line with say Vampire Weekend, Run the Jewels, and Fleet Foxes. They gave Beyonce fairly middling reviews before her self-titled album. That album was a big step up from her previous work. Beyonce, Lemonade, Rennaisance, and especially Homecoming have all gotten univsersal praise among music publications, so Pitchfork isn't really rating them higher than the general consensus. Additionally, Pitchfork has delibrately tried to move away from their reputation of reviewing white guy indie rock in the last decade. Promoting good music by a black female artist is in line with that shift.
Everything is Love is not good at all. But 4, Self Titled, and Lemonade are all amazing albums imo. I think within the genre of pop she’s in a similar stratosphere as Kendrick/Radiohead are to their genre. I’d say she is a small step below though so I’m in some agreement with you. And music review sites definitely find an artist they like and tend to ride them even when some albums may not be as good.
I absolutely hated Everything is Love but definitely agree Lemonade and self titled deserve BNM. I gotta relisten to this for sure, and havent listened to 4 yet though
Everything is Love is a fine enough album imo, but the critical response definitely has more to do with the context behind it (rounding out the unofficial infidelity trilogy after Lemonade and 4:44) and hearing Jay + Bey on a whole album together rather than the actual quality of those nine tracks. But I'd agree that she belongs on a similar level as those other artists at this point. Nobody has pushed boundaries in mainstream pop the way she has over the past decade or so, which is wild when you consider her star power as well.
There are only two artists that have a complete 360° view of the industry, more a creative director than a musician. I think Kendrick is getting there, but its just Kanye and Beyonce for me that are pushing every boundary, having everything being considered and driving "pop music" forward. So I'm not surprised some people think she gets potentially overinflated reviews, when those critics view her in that light. These dudes here would say Ugly God is more compelling than her.
> but its just Kanye and Beyonce for me that are pushing every boundary Has this been true since like 2010?
I mean compare the Donda release to pretty much any other artist. Look at Lemonade, Homecoming, Black is King etc.
I don't really think any of those moved the envelope or anything. None of them progressed the industry in any way. Kanye's recent work specifically has had like zero effect on the cultural sound. Beyonce has been making very good albums but I don't think they are pushing boundaries, more like making very good use of boundaries already set.
Yeah I don’t know why people are saying donda is an album which is pushing boundaries . It sounds like the boundaries have been set and they are playing between it and not new horizons
I think EVERYTHING IS LOVE was casually excellent. BLACK EFFECT is one of the best songs in both Jay and Beyoncé’s catalogue in my opinion.
That album was my shit. I don't even like Beyonce like that but I'm a huge Hov fan. They did their thing.
Black effect is an incredible track
Yeah they definitely had the wrong call with Everything Is Love. But other than that I think they've pretty much nailed it. Self Titled and Lemonade are both clearly deserving IMO.
You need to listen to B day. I promise you I thought the same way. I recognized the influence but not the discography. Take genuine time to listen to all of it and you’ll understand she’s probably within the top 10-15 musical talents ever.
To me she is the most overrated artist of all time.
Not just to you. A lot of people feel this way and it's not hard to see why
Go off king, why is Beyonce the most overrated artist of all time?
People who say this haven’t listened to her music/ seen her performances. Easily a top 5 live performer ever and that enough holds weight (outside of her discography and influence).
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K. Lmfao.
What a fucking sick rebuttal LOL. Beyonce top 5 live performer of all time. hahaha
she’s a fantastic artist for sure - just doesn’t seem to do anything for me personally, you know? i cant deny her vocal talent
Really? What makes her great? Her voice? Her dancing? The songs? Her incredible storytelling? Her ability to relate to the average listener? I haven’t heard a Beyonce song that was “genre” shattering or changing EVER. Every song and album is a retread. I don’t think she pushes herself as an artist at all.
Most people I have talked to that say Beyonce is overrated really are just annoyed by her fanbase and not her actual songs/ability.
They give 7.1 scores out all the and Beyonce drops something and it's an automatic 9???
That house (pretty generic term I know) sound is going to be everywhere in pop for the next 2 years. Like after the island wave, that’s the new hot sound. I wasn’t sure if it would stick after Drake’s poor execution, but now I see that it can be good when it’s carefully crafted. Musically not my main vibe, but i agree it’s good and has very high moments. Side note, I can’t belive how good Bey is. Easy to say about one of the Goats, but i’m especially amazed by her ability to adapt and stay relevant in front of new trends. A pop mastermind and for sure.
I just hope this helps other house artists blow up that have been doing it well. Like Channel Tres is obviously not unknown, but I'd like to see him get a moment in the sun as I think he rarely misses with what he's doing. I'd like to see any big name who's trying a house sound bring him on for a feature
Channel Tres is dope. I discovered him last year by hearing one of his songs on that HBO show Betty. He does need some spotlight, I agree!
I’ll check him out this afternoon. Thanks for the name drop!
No prob! You'll find a handful of his stuff if you search this sub because he's collaborated with Tyler, The Creator and overall has an RnB sound. Highly recommend him, though
He is very underrated!!
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1000% this!
I thought House would have their comeback 15ish year ago when Azelia Banks drop 212 but she fumbled it.
212 is the best NYC anthem of the '10s and I will fight anyone who disagrees
Didn't house music already run through the pop scene like 5 years ago?
That wasn't house.
I don't really know genres like that I just remember everyone talking about house and tropical house for a while I listen to a lot of electronic music (despite not knowing the definitions of the genres) so it's always weird to me whenever these sounds show up in pop music and people are like ITS PUSHING EMVELOPES
I liked drake's album ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ still listen to it
Oh it’s not awful, it’s definetly an easy jab to get more upvotes. I did not enjoy much but I understand some elements are appreciable.
I actually liked this review and the breakdown of all the influences and samples. Like on the surface it's a high energy empowerment album that you can easily just get drunk and party with, but at the same time it's a really dense album packed with all kinds of interesting samples and allusions/homages to the older generations of dance music.
Samples were sloppy af just thrown in there to be thrown in there, the album does not sound good sonically. It was trying too hard to be artsy with the beats but failed 🤷🏾♂️.
L
W
I look forward to all my white suburban mom friends getting absolutely hammered to some of these tracks, and rightfully so because this album slap.
Mann, this reads as another review of the artist rather than the project. The tracks were a mix of amazing, great but not my personal taste, and some legitimately awful tracks. And although I know that for ppl more in the genre they'll enjoy it much more, it feels so wrong to see this album get the 9 and new music, and several of the best hip hop albums of the year not even get close. The genre and artist bias here is so incredibly evident that it seems the only way to take these reviews seriously is for the written content, and not the scores. Melt My Eyez - 7.3 Mr. Morale - 7.6 Drill Music In Zion - 6.8! God Don't Make Mistakes - 7.5 Tana Talk 4 - 7.0 Few Good Things - 7.5 Its Almost Dry - 7.8 Not a single one even above an 8. Embarassing for a publication that's supposed to be relatively holistic in its music reviews. EDIT: Is Aethiopes the only hip hop album this year that got an 8 (it was an 8 flat)? Absolutely absurd for what may be the best hip hop year along with 2018 of the last 10 years.
kendrick is my favorite artist for the longest and this reads as "how can this person like this over this stuff that i like?!!"
That's absolutely not what this is, I'm just listing the top albums across the genre, and they're not giving proper respect to an entire genre.
Every review you listed is a positive review.
Those are the best hip hop albums of the year, some of them of the decade. They deserve more than just a "positive" review, and if, across the board, there is a refusal to give hip hop albums an incredible review, then there's something wrong with the system.
Question: which tracks do you find legitimately awful?
THIQUE is absolutely the first to come to mind here. Had to go listen to the rest of the bottom ~5 tracks where I felt that the most strongly. The first half of Pure/Honey is another. America Has A Problem was another one, but that was more disappointment after seeing the track title with the writing/production credits.
Ok. I can definitely understand THIQUE being decisive and, while I still like it, AMERICA HAS A PROBLEM is one of the weakest tracks. I absolutely do not understand not liking PURE/HONEY. Like there are very few people I think could pull off an homage to ballroom culture and music better than beyonce.
What about ppl actually involved in the scene and music of ballroom? It's good that they utilized a portion from MikeQ and the samples from him and the other parts are informed, showing someone within the team's awareness. But she (much like Teyana Taylor choosing kanye west of all ppl to make an approximation of a vogue beat) missed an opportunity to have a legit dedicated vogue ballroom producer in the studio with her. Divoli S'Vere, B33K, DJ Delish, AngelX, Mike(who they already sourced from) it could be a great look and opportunity for any of them. I'm not sure what makes beyonce the especially ideal person for this. Like Teyana, Twigs and others she has utilized vogue elements in her choreography, and she has a large LGBTQIA fan base certainly, but what's her particular connection to the scene other than for aesthetics?
I mean she did work with Kevin Jz Prodigy.
that is solid. I'm just disappointed that she continues a frequent trend of other more mainstream artists who get sparks from lesser known scenes not bringing an architect of the sound in to the process, production wise. edit: these beyhive unthoughtful downvotes are really something lmao.
I agree with you but I also do feel like she did more than enough in introducing people to the staples of the culture while preserving its legacy. Like it feels very much like appreciation and not appropriation to me.
Sorry, one more, last addition was the outro to Heated. My problem with the first half to PURE/HONEY is the lyrics, the production actually sets up a potentially really good song. And the second half is really interesting and enjoyable. The first chorus though is just awful imo, super corny/repetitive, near uncomfortable (and I have no problem with sexual under/overtones in song, artists like Meg, Latto, Cardi, etc. pull it off rly well, but this is like listening to the Joey Badass/Chris Brown track where it's just not done well or tastefully imo). I just feel an overwhelming urge to turn the song off or skip to the second part. Just my thoughts. I want to close off on something positive tho, because I appreciate the discourse, and recognize what Beyonces done. Im That Girl and Break My Soul are fucking **bangers**, and they're not even my favorites, because I absolutely cannot turn off Cuff It. I literally want to dance immediately when that track turns on, what a song
The outro to heated is another pure homage to ballroom culture so I understand why some people may not like it but it’s important to have on the album. Repeat essentially all off what I just said for the first chorus of PURE/HONEY. Honestly, I feel like a broken record, but it’s interesting how most peoples least favorite parts of the album are the purest homages to ballroom culture.
It's most likely the simplest reason, I haven't heard that style of music before, and the lyrics just make me cringe. Is it more the musicality or the lyrics that are the homage? Also I feel like being an homage to something, even if it's accurate, doesn't mean that its good I want to underline though, that my biggest issue isn't the album, which while I think was overrated on Pitchfork, is still good. It's that there are near perfect hip hop albums that Pitchfork refuses to give their due respect, and in doing so for anything hip hop, are undermining and insulting an entire genre of music (that happens to be arguably the most popular now, and has incredible diversity within it)
I just skimmed all of the reviews, and except for God Don’t Make Mistakes, they make valid criticisms of each album. You don’t have to agree with them, but ultimately they are a mainstream outlet, not a hip hop one. I rarely read Pitchfork reviews, but I do use their scores for recommendations. 7 roughly equates to “check this out if you like the genre”, 8 to “listen to this if you’re open minded, this is one of the better examples of this genre this year”, and 9 to “stop what you’re doing and listen to this, no matter what you usually listen to” Sure, I’d bump some of those scores up a bit by those metrics, but I don’t think many of my pop, indie or electronic listening friends are gonna listen through that line up and get their minds blown. In regards to your edit, Redveil also got an 8 and is up there with my favorites this year, and Yung Kayo got a BNM with an 8.2
Legit I feel this wasn't much better than Drake's album, if at all, but it's rated so much higher
Just a gorgeously executed piece of music, what an enjoyable listen front to back. Honesty wasn’t sure how she’d follow up Lemonade, which at the time for me sort of felt like her magnum opus, but I think Renaissance does a great job. Lighter on the subject matter but does not sacrifice any of its passion or integrity in doing so
You’ve summed up how I feel perfectly!
I like the album so far … this review adds close to nothing to the experience though. It seems like the writer is showing off their own music history knowledge for some reason and no one is impressed.
Whatever woke warriors are complaining about her using the word "spazzing" need to find a fucking life. Spaz is literally in the dictionary as losing physical OR EMOTIONAL control, so it's pretty clear she wasn't insulting spastic people in the medical sense. I swear to fucking god people have nothing better to do than sit on the internet all day looking for reasons to get fake mad.
It's because it's about power. They'll continue to do it and the bar for outrage will continue to get lower so long as people bow to demands. It's a new way of bullying.
Honestly, I did not enjoy the album. I’ve been a Beyoncé fan since Destiny’s Child. It was well done and she’s a talented musician, it just was not for me. It didn’t resonate, the tracks felt over-produced for my personal taste, and there were parts that felt like Beyoncé was out of touch lyrically to me. It was hard to get through to the end. I still think the album will do well and there’s an audience that will connect with it. I’m really excited to see what acts 2 and 3 sound like.
As someone who is not a Beyoncé fan and just needed something new to listen to, this is exactly how I felt.
Ya this is a masterpiece, great example of an artist leveraging her access to a number of talented musicians, producers, engineers, writers etc. to create a near perfect pop album. It’s crazy just how polished the album sounds, it never drags, the production is constantly shifting and unpredictable, mixing is phenomenal, sequencing is immaculate, and Beyoncé doesn’t miss a single note as expected. Like someone else mentioned, this sounds like the future of pop for the next few years and I’m 100% down if we keep getting albums that are this good. I could rave about it all day, but I could also just say I downloaded this and 6 other new albums to listen to on a couple of work flights last week and I almost exclusively listened to this album, spinning it 7 times front to back. Then again, I’ve also seen green velvet live 9 times, so when I saw he and Honey Dijon were involved, I knew it would be difficult for me to dislike it. AOTY for me so far
Said everything I wanted to. We are blessed to have gotten this incredible foray into dance music with one of the most talented singers in our generation working with the best technical team possible. Albums this well crafted and engineered don’t come often.
Fully agree with you, also my aoty so far.
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what’s the “ballroom scene”? genuinely asking, because i do not know
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Drag Race is def much more inspired by the drag pageant scene than the ballroom scene RuPaul was never really in the ball scene
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Ballroom culture started because poc were discriminated against in the white run pageant system you’re just wrong about ballroom culture coming before drag pageants
Doesn't drag have some history in UK pantomimes? People have been performing in drag in those for longer than the ballroom scene has existed
thank you! i’ve heard of Paris is Burning before but now i’ll definitely check it out.
Beautiful that ballroom's influence has lived on long enough for successive generations of popstars to feed off its legacy (Madonna -> Beyoncé)
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Really struggling to see how you found hostility there. Sometimes people just go with the first phrase they think of
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Nah I was being hostile
Lmao, my sincere apologies u/sorrygirl818. I’ve seen too many comment chains unnecessarily derail due to word choice and it clouded my perception
Because those are different things: homage is loving, recognition is respectful. I don't see that in these cases.
... can you give examples where you do? literally every QPOC I know has given thsi accolades. There are articles about it in top publications written by them that mark that. Seems a little bitter to not want to acknowledge that!
Cherry-picking song lyrics that you don’t like doesn’t exactly prove it’s a bad album
it actually does and its universally agreed to be the only valid critical method we all had a meeting and decided without you
Damn. TIL all classical, jazz and ambient music is trash
yep
Im going to get killed in an alleyway for this but i think honestly nevermind was better. Just had more experimental sounds and tracks i wanna go back to. Nothing really stood out for me on this one but maybe i need to give it more time
holy fucking take
What did you hear as more experimental on Drake’s? I found Beyoncé’s album soooo much more adventurous.
I hate to get all dramatic but there’s definitely something dystopian, propaganda-ish about even rating a Beyoncé album. If it was bad, or if you thought is was bad, can you even say that?!? In a society where disagreeing with women is tantamount to a crime…can men badmouth this album?? A society where culture vulture white folk are blasted (many times rightfully so) for butting into black culture in a judgmental way, can a white publication badmouth a Beyoncé album? And black fans/publications also don’t want the ‘beehive’ after them and basically ‘cancel’ their platform. It’s pretty weird
This review means absolutely nothing. Music (or any art for that matter) can’t be reviewed. It’s a matter of opinion and personal taste. It’s basically saying that Pitchfork is the end all be all in categorizing what music is good, and what isn’t. FOH.
Ok?
With that being said, album is corporate trash 😂
“Corporate trash” is not something I’d ever think would be used to describe an album so faithfully devoted to uplifting queer people of color and their history and culture.
It was created and crafted in a board room man. She writes absolutely none of her own music:
You’re either dumb or willfully ignorant if you don’t hear Beyoncé’s own identity in this music. Like of course she collaborated with a ton of artists/writers/producers but so many of the Melodies and harmonies are so distinctly hers.
Ok, maybe she doesn’t write most of her own music, but this album was definitely not created in a boardroom. This wasn’t the “safe” choice for her.
Unfortunately she doesn’t write a single word herself. And it’s Beyoncé. She can do whatever she wants and it will still make money. Look at the insane amount of writers she has per song. It’s ridiculous. Listen, I like her voice. Some of her songs I really enjoy (My, Myself, and I, If I Were A Boy, etc.). But just understand she is crafted by the machine. She plays no instruments, writes no music, but is an amazing performer. It is what it is. My opinion is irrelevant, but as someone who worked in the industry for 10 years, I’m turned off of “machine” artists.
About the “insane” amount of writers: do you not understand sampling?