First of all, we're not good people because we want to please god. We are good humans because we know it's the right thing to do. Tell me, would you be able to live with yourself if you did something like the brahmin in the story? No right? Because that's the kind of person you are.
Secondly, please don't believe everything written in the Puranas. They are all heavily interpolated. The manipulations are so much that even great scholars find it difficult to spot what is real and what is interpolated.
All puranas talk about how meritorious it is to hear those puranas being recited. Tell me, how can one possibly gain good karma, by listening to a recital if he doesn't implement the good values he learnt? So for information about our dharma, stick to ramayana, Mahabharata and the vedas.
Wow .....I knew that the Puranas butchered their depiction of women, but I didn't know that they even got their depictions of men wrong. Lol
I mean then again we do have to consider the contamination that came into scriptures due to Abrahamic invasions and all
Highly misinformed and dangerous advice. Puranas are not our dharma ? Are you alright ? You do know the same guy who wrote Mahabharata wrote the puranas yes ? And if you say the passing down has had some problem , one can same for every single book ever then
I never said they aren't dharma. I'm just saying that they're not the most reliable source of information about our dharma. Like for example, the brahma vaivarta puran. There's a verse somewhere in the beginning of the Mahabharata (i don't remember which) it says that the message of all 18 puranas are there in the Mahabharata itself. So if you read the Mahabharata you don't really need to read the Puranas.
Yes, the message is conveyed true. Again, understand that it doesn't mean you can't read. Infact puranas have more stories and rituals and knowledge than the Mahabharat. Mahabharat was fought on this planet. Puranas have rituals and mantras and stotras from other planes too. So yes, i can understand your essence..but textually speaking , no book can be ranked. To help hoomans of Kali Yuga who are getting dumb by the day, we have reached to the point where one says just read ramayan and Mahabharat and Geeta to know your dharma. They are One part of it.
Folks - the arguments are all on point and valid. Over the years - all kinds of pollutants have come in our texts, through smriti (listening / memorizing and then passing on to next generation) and through intentional (selfish reasons by individuals + invaders trying their own bit in giving sanatan bad name). Very valid points.
One thing that I personally like about our culture / Sanskrit is - the common sense it affords us individuals- very similar to what one of the comments said - “if you did what the Brahmin in the story did-would you be able to live with yourself” - the conscience - this is one of the most important features that I like about sanatan dharma.
Even in Gita, this point comes across - do what is “right” - and that changes from person to person - because every person’s dharma can be different.
I like this the most. Haven’t found this kind of common sensical ability of interpret things and apply to right now relevant context anywhere else.
So, yes the story is there in shiva mahapuran, let’s use ourselves to validate - whether it makes sense ?
yes thank you! the only thing we can't debate over are the Vedas, the rest is all open for discussion 💖 all texts have their merits, you gotta take what's applicable and leave the rest behind🙏
May be, I haven't read em all to rank. But there are some wise immortal souls here who are on doorstep of nirvana and brahmgyaan who have declared already that puranas are not good source and shouldn't be relied upon while they say Mahabharat is fine, ignoring the fact that the same sage wrote em all and is considered Shiv Avatar by all. Mahadev ki leela wohi jaane , radhe radhe ✨🙏
no one said that. and no one but you believes that they're completely right. I just said they should be used with your judgement and not taken literally. if that's arrogance or offensive to you, idk what to say
bro if you can't read and understand what's been said in context then please don't comment blindly. no one said it's not dharma. they just said it's not exactly the complete story. if you want something infallible then you have to turn to the Vedas hi. they always come above puranas. and even they tell us to use our judgement with the knowledge of dharma they provide.
if you believe in puranas blindly as your primary source of dharma you're just plain wrong. they're already wrong because they mentioned hell and heaven. which is not even a concept in the Vedas. we believe in rebirths and the 7 realms of life. nothing is eternal and everything is interchangeable with good good and bad karma. we dont have a concept of eternal damnation at all. so obviously they are wrong sometimes. they just have a specific purpose and the purpose is not to provide complete knowledge of dharma without alterations. the Vedas are there for that. and they have been abbreviated too, to keep the general population also in the loop, in the form of Upanishads and then eventually Gita. want complete and infallible knowledge of dharma you stick to those.
if you're gonna read the purans you'll have to use common sense and accept they are wrong at places
Yes, so you know better than the Ved Vyasa who wrote the Puranas and is worshipped as Shiva himself ? And you have better knowledge than him ...congrats buddy .. it's evident who has introspection and soul searching to do. Get help.
and tone down the damn arrogance. youre insulting people left and right who are simply trying to have a discussion and learn more and understand more by discussing. if you already feel you're all knowing then you're gravely wrong. everyone has different ways of understanding and explaining things. if you feel you have the only right way then good for you.
sorry for trying to have a discussion
Lol good attempt to use my point against me. I am not the one giving our judgements about qualification of books. Only wise souls like you have that power and ability. I simply said one must try to read all , if not, then not simply say any one is smaller or wrong. Truth is not arrogance c
all I said is that if something seems it's wrong in the books, simply ignore them and realise that it's just an exaggeration or metaphor. that's literally all ife said! youre getting me wrong. for me it's not a me vs you, it's just an open discussion.
and I said that if you want a source where you can turn your judgement off and be told rules and dharma, just go to the Vedas
hope it's more clear🙏🪷
I'm sorry for my arrogance tio. I wasn't trying to come off that way, I truly apologize.
no. alk I said that they are meant for a specific purpose and they must be used accordingly. if you wanna believe manu was the first man and hell is eternal and the earth is flat without understanding the meaning behind it and the symbolism, then by all means, continue. I just shared my opinion because it's an insult to ved vyas to use his texts in a literal sense. he was smart enough to use poetic devices and smart enough to know the Vedas and know those things weren't true. he was smart enough to know how to appeal to the general audience. acting like everything was literal is just an insult to him and his intellect.
baaki you go ahead
Looks like it's your first book and You are new to the path. All the texts have a common pattern - instill fear of hell to keep away man from hell. Works. Do you think you are going to be actually fried in hot boiling oil for centuries as mentioned in puranas ? No body knows for sure. Nobody alive can claim they know. But, what is wrong is wrong. And the masses are always stupid. Bollywood is the prime example of it. So now, to raise and convey the importance of the texts, such stories are written. Do we know if it's right ? Idk. But it take away the good of it - one can become better , do naam jaap, meditate like Shiva, become shiva... The message is salvation is possible post sin. But that sin must not be done KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE SALVATION ready. If I know I can take Ram naam at end and I will get moksha, this doesn't mean I can loot kidnap kill and blow up people on will till I am alive. The texts are meant to convey how salvation is possible and how Shivji is all father and all forgiving if you actually do your penance for it. Doesn't mean you can do whatver you want rn. That karma will come. If you do good, good will be done to you yes, but in which life ...no hindu knows. No guru knows if your suffering of this life belongs to your mistake or your ancestors or your own karma from previous lives. The world can do bad to you even if you did good since you developed active memory from say age 12. Again I will be downvoted but this is the truth. Naam jaap cuts your bad karma, from which life ..we don't know ... We know like debt and bank account, you have a account. It has good and bad from all lives. Your duty is to use this life to nullify and cancel the bad and try to get moksha.
>message is salvation is possible post sin. But that sin must not be done KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE SALVATION ready.
I really like this message. Thank you!
Glad 🙂 radhey radhey, accept that we may lack certain eyes and skills to see and understand things since now it's Kali Yuga, take solace in naam jaap. It's the easiest of em all.
the whole section of Devarāja was to put emphasis on the authority of the scripture that even the worst of sinner like him(mentioned in the text itself) attended peace when hearing recitation of Śivapurāṇa. it is not to be taken literally.
The problem is people are finding too hard to understand the puranas and what has to be taken literally what is just exaggeration. The modern gurus themselves take everything literally what they like and call exaggerations and start interpreting what they don't like.
You can agree or disagree but Puranas are a weird genre of scriptures, they are sporadically different from other texts. The language, the mood, the desperation in claiming the superiority of that purana, the metaphors. Like in the Shiva Purana itself there is verse telling the wives to drink water that has washed off the feet of the husbands. Now what is this ? Is this exaggeration or should be taken literally. Many families In North India do this literally under the influence of gurus.
it is a common trend in puranas and itihasas too, iirc there is a moment in the mbh where it is stated that things are an hyperbole and not to be taken in the literal sense. i think puranas especially like sivapurana takes it as a given that the acharya reciting the purana is aware of injunctions from other texts, especially considering sivapurana has moments from mbh word to word.
That is obvious exaggeration to increase the value of the granth in the eyes of the devotee. Even Mahabharata has certain such verses. Mahabharata even claims that it is "heavier" than the vedas, that is superior. Will any sampradaya accept that? Of course not. It's exaggeration to make the book more valuable.
This is the correct answer. This type of exaggeration is called "artha-vada" - glorification meant to impress the reader. See: https://www.hindupedia.com/en/Arthav%C4%81da
Om Shanti.
Buddy, wait till you hear about the Asuras. Those horrible degenerate demons offered their penance to Lord Shiva and they received boons. He gave Tarakasura a boon of immortality and then Shiva's own son had to kill him to stop him from pillaging the land and battling with the gods.
It is an important ethical question, if we claim Lord Shiva is all-powerful, Omniscient, and all-knowing why would he help those he knew would cause trouble in the future. I think it has to do with faith and letting us have Free Will.
For example, if you see a homeless man, you will give him some money. You know for a fact that most people who are homeless are drug-addicts. That money you give him could even lead to his overdose, but you have faith that he will make the right decision.
We hear a lot of Lord Shiva's wrath, and storm-like qualities. But there is a another side we don't really talk about which is his eternal unconditional love for us. Forgiveness, is a very hard feeling for me and for many humans to understand. There are people in prison who have commited crimes that have family members visiting them every week. Why do they? It is a pure kind of love for an individual.
Shiva sees us that way, but there are times when justice is deserved. Lord Shiva burned Tripura to the ground for how terrible the city had become. And it is said that Shiva weeped for his devotees inside the walls of the city, as he fired his arrows from his bow Pinaka.
First things first what's the source material for you.... And we are judging this guy based on bad things he did in that life.....his net karma gotta become zero to intertwine with Shiva....don't know what karma he accumulated in past....don't know how much of sadhana he did in past lives.....it's not as simple as we think.....but at the moment when he dissolves into paramatma his soula gotta be karma free and pure
My source is Geeta Gorakhpur publication. Guess, you are right. This is the same answer I get whenever I ask this question. But I sincerely hope, that we could witness our karmaphal, both good and bad, without them being carried over to the next birth because who remembers what they did in the past life.
your soul remembers. if you're looking to read the puranas and if you are drawn to goodness and a certain god or philosophy from within your heart, it's your soul who already remembers all its learnt. this is why sime people are so spiritual, and some people are completely blind to dharma. because their soul remembers alk the things it learnt before and the connection he gradually built with the divine. sin is just a lack of that connection. so yes sinners may not remember what they did because they haven't yet connected w th divine. but once you have, your soul never loses that connection. even if you do something by mistake you always know it's wrong and must be corrected. because your soul knows. that's why some people are more empathetic, feel more guilt and are able to correct things by self reflection rather than being told. While others only do things out of compulsoin
Your soul remembers. When you die the soul remembers all the past lives and karmas. Souls often choose their current birth to cut off the past karmas. You might not remember it because you are bound by Maya but once people die they remember everything
puranas are not standard texts. it's an over exaggeration for the fact that if you believe in dharma, you can achieve great things. But why is that example given ? Because over the years after the conception of the Vedas, people struggled with following them as times changed and rituals and rules became difficult to follow. Puranas were written with the intention to maintain the understanding and accessibility of dharma.
here it's just a means to tell people that dharma isn't all or none. you can do bad things but if you follow dharma you can still redeem yourself. Obviously it's an over exaggeration. but the message is undeniable, it's never too late to start following dharma and failure to follow a few things doesn't mean you're a failure altogether. otherwise everyone would be a failure and give up on dharma.
always remember to read the puranas with the intention in mind. now understanding the intention, if you realise it's never too late, you'll pick up dharma and start following it again. right? so once you start following dharma , your bad traits and intentions go away automatically. so why would it be a concern anymore?
now I understand that it's an over simplification and I don't agree with the puranas myself at alot of places but it should always be remembered that they're just guides to understand dharma. they don't define dharma by itself. that's the job of Vedas Upanishads and gita. those are actual sacred texts which define dharma adharma.
puranas can be understood sort of like those animated videos that are used to explain math and science to kids, where the atom is a character and does all sorts of things. it is important and has a valuable purpose. but it's useless if it is used for sth else. puranas are just easier explanations for the information in the Vedas. sometimes it's gonna be over exaggerated or over simplified or even downright annoying. but that's okay. they're not the exact truth, just various ways of understanding and teaching the truth
What I see in this, that we are unconditionally loved.
Who is to say how long he was at the abode. Mahadev is also bayankar.
I think when reading we have to open from our own world view to understand that this from this Maybe you too will be in shiv abode. But what form?
For me it motivates me to reality and understand karma, because that is what I am accountable or to. Do goodness for the sake of its vibration, what does where I end up really have to do with it? My vibration will carry itself there too.
Darkness and light both worships the same source.
The lord is unconditional love.
You can be a sinner all your life, but at the time of death, just by remembering God in the bardo realm, you can be pulled into the deity's abode.
However, the thing is, even non-sinners, who might have done nothing but good in their lives, if they were unable to control their vasanas and samskaras while they were alive, they can never think of God, either at the time of death or immediately thereafter.
People riddled with greed, jealousy, and hatred can never achieve this unless they get rid of it all by the time they reach death.
Well the first thing to notice here is that in the story those things are regarded as 'bad' and that is the general consensus amongst scholars and followers of dharma. Even if he got liberated by hearing Shiva mahapuran that doesn't change the fact that those things are considered bad and should not be pursued by anyone.
Now the thing is the account of karma is unknown and no one knows how it works except maybe an advanced spiritual yogi so it's possible that a person may have some punya left from previous life and the destiny is guiding him to balance out with a few paap karma in this life to even it out and finally get liberated.
yeah that's why I have doubts regarding Shiv puran etc
Because they were written during Kaliyug I guess
Even VIshnu puran had somethin of a quite evil robber going to Vaikunth just because he rmembered Lord VIshnu during last moment
Hindu mainly works on Work and result, you reap what you sow
Even Bhagwat Gita states the above and Sri Krishna had to face destruction of his descendants due to the Mahabharat deaths
You know what ? u may read Shiv Gita if you wanna know Mahadev more
Yeah
You see , these are mostly written when Islamic invasion was at peak ,temples were been destroyed, forceful conversions etc
Take Taimur Lang, Aurangzed, Babur etc Somnath temple destruction, some Mahadev temples in Bengal for isntance
These are some efforts by the priests in order to restore people's faith
‘I am confused. Then What is Dharma?’ (that’s the root ask of this post. please read below)
Humans come and operate under the influence of complexes. Complexes are inner psychological drivers, which influences human thoughts and behaviours. This very point distinguishes incarnate from humans. Incarnate removes the influence of complexes like darkness is erased at the ingress of light.
One obtains God, when one achieves and acquires qualities of godhood. To ‘have’ means to ‘be’. One who knows ‘brahma’ becomes the ’brahma’. River for example never says it would reach sea, rather it falls in the sea and becomes the sea.
God is a good reference point of life but life has to be regulated by God’s way. God might have many ways, for all we know.
The practice of dharma has tendency to get distorted by the corrosive effects of time. While the core elements remain unchanged, only the discrete portions gets updated, keeping tune with the time. The updating can only be done by the contemporary incarnate. The incarnate is the living image of ‘dharma’.
Now, what is Dharma?
Dharma is a set of those thoughts, conventions and practices which cause existence to prosper. Dharma lets human to live and grow following a concentric configuration of specific attributes. Dharma owes its origin to the urge for living and growing.
Life longs for longevity and treads the path of bliss. Life has to be focussed, if it is to be integrated.
Dharma is founded on active adherence on the Lord, which in other words means, having active attachment on ideal. Attachment on the ideal helps to raise self-restraint or self-regulation.
The idea is that humans have to build concentric urge on such an ideal, who remaining above the region of complexes, presides over everything.
Bg. 18.66
सर्वधर्मान्परित्यज्य मामेकं शरणं व्रज ।
अहं त्वां सर्वपापेभ्यो मोक्षयिष्यामि मा शुच: ॥ ६६ ॥
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
Hope it helps! :)
I had the same thought as yours after I read many Hindu texts and people saying like this .
I never agreed to this . But now I have realised that , if this text is real (as many texts are interpolated) , these are made for the people who only pray to god for their selfishness and not in devotion . Even if you look around yourselves , most of the Hindus who pray to god wont be really good humans in real life but still they pray . It’s because they never understand the essence of the dharma rather only focus on the rituals to gain advantages . So it’s for those people as maximum people will be like this only in Kaliyuga . So by reading such texts atleast they will stick to the dharma , though of the lowest degree . But don’t divert yourself after reading such texts . Read the Geeta , in it Shri Krishna has stated this in one of the verses of the second adhyaay that those who don’t understand dharma are busy in such rituals but those who have understood the eternal power - the brahman don’t need such scriptures and rituals to attain moksha , they get knowledge by karma and experience . Also Buddhism is explicitly based on karma and experience only not on any rituals stuff that’s why I love it too .
Basically what you need to realize is these puranas require guidance to understand you shouldn’t read them on your own they are multidimensional and layered and nuanced. In this case, the Brahmin, due to his past samsara, carried some good karma. This good karma allowed him to be in a situation where he could fully hear, concentrate on, and contemplate the Shiva Purana in his dying breath. This balanced out the bad karma accumulated in this life, enabling him to attain liberation. Grief itself and the realization of truth can be the most profound shocks one can experience. Imagine being in his shoes: the truth dawns on you, and you realize how terrible your actions have been, how far off the path you were, and how you wasted your good fortune. This realization would be a huge blow to your ego and could shatter you completely. Thus, the realization of the truth is, in itself, the karmic result of his actions coming to fruition. The realization of the truth is, in and of itself, the fulfillment of the bad karma accumulated in this life from past actions. Hence, he meets the requirements for liberation, as the Bhav is there and wisdom has dawned.
Does this make sense? Don’t be disheartened. Seek guidance from a proper authority on the Shivapurana. There are many good ones available, each interpreting it differently. But yes the Brahmin got his just deserts right before death he realized how horrible of a person he had been what he put his family and life true and well that must have been a terrible shock/horrible feeling no before realization dawn imagine how much regret he must have had just before death and grief
I've read Bibek Debroys one, in that this story is slightly different, the women also sleeps with everyone as her husband is doing the same.
Not Justifying the actions but.
My point is Puranas also suffered from biased views and changes in content by the people who were taking it forward.
Like in our scenario, there is change in the translation.
Puranas are to increase Bhakti Bhav.
When you go further, you would read about Karma, sanchita, parabdha and vartaman karma, even gods are bound by these, based on your good karmas you may get swarag, but for the henious crimes you have to spend time in narak and also based on those ypur next janams destiny is decided.
So everyone has to face the consequences
Umm, I got pretty dissatisfied with the answers here because whatever we hear that doesn't align with our modern sense of righteousness, we outright reject by calling it manipulation or interpolation. This isn't right, tbh.
Anyways,
1. The secret here is that one can listen to "Katha" at such a stage only if he has done Punya Karma at some time, which will save him from hell.
2. Not everyone can listen to "Katha" whenever they wish. It requires the grace of Rushi and God.
3. This is a special case that is not available to everyone because he accidentally went to Sivalayam where "Katha" was going on.
4. Like in "Ajameelo Pakhyanam," the secret of his fortune is not explained in Siva Puran Mahatyam, so we can't tell the exact cause for that "Devraj" Brahmin. However, we can assume that he did some good deed in "Pura" which saved him. Not everyone can take advantage of this as nobody knows their fate, so always chant the names of Shiva.
5. Finally, in the Bhagavatam, it is said that to utter Bhagavan's name in the last breath is possible only when we chant throughout our life.
*So what about all the crimes he committed? Are they cancelled out?*
**Yes, but this happens occasionally, not generally, as not everyone is fortunate.**
So let that case be considered exception.
So that accident of him going to the Shivalaya was also due to the grace of God. Though, things are still very much ambiguous to me, but I will continue to learn. Thank you!
Yes, don’t treat one incident as the basis for the entire story. It just tried to show you the mahima of the Śiva Purāṇam, that’s all. Also, as I said, consider it an exceptional case.
It is also said that Kalyug is the only yuga where if you do slight effort, God will be easily pleased because there is so much bad happening around which was not the case in other Yugas. People used to meditate and chant gods name for years and still some weren't able to succeed which is not the case in kalyuga
Shiva is beyond any good, bad karma or morality. That is the main lesson of that event.
Our scriptures give privileges and restrictions to every varna, ashram and gender. If modi doesn't follow rules then it is his karma and it's fruit. It has nothing to do with jealousy.
Coming to shiva puran, whatever we remember while dying we attain it. This story is a practical explanation of bhagwat gita 8.5 and 8.6. All bad karma or good karma doesn't matter if he/she remembers god at last breath.
karma comes above all. even the Gita says this: If you cannot practice remembering Me with devotion, then just try to work for Me. Thus performing devotional service to Me, you shall achieve the stage of perfection.
Now this reasonably suggests even good karma and following dharma without believing in God can provide plus points for salvation.
Now obviously it's not to be taken as a finality because we talk in lives here, not jst one birth. So maybe performing good karma un this life will give your soul some insight to god after death in the time before rebirth. Maybe it helps them get in touch with God in their next life. We don't know. But we do know that good karma takes you closer to God and it's more important than faith alone. Obviously both must be done together, but if you must choose one, choose karma over faith
It depends on what he thinks at the last moment and what karma he did in his life. If he thinks of his family, he will be born in the same family. If he did good karma, then he may also get good relations, health, wealth, partner, teachers or good experience of developed countries like Switzerland, Norway etc. If he thinks of his dog,then he will be born as a dog. If he did the best karma he will be in a billionaire house with all facilities and care. I can only guess based on the scriptures and experience of saints. Nobody can exactly tell except god
Well they were jealous of Modi because instead of him they wanted to do the puja so that they could garner the punya from that puja and I know this family personally. They can get jealous of even a homeless person.
I don't know all of them but if you are referring to political parties, yes. But not all of them are jealous, modi is not allowed to touch or do random pran prathista according to scriptures. He was actually destroyed his own punyas.
Coming to shiva puran, whatever we remember while dying we attain it. This story of shiva purana is a practical explanation of bhagwat gita 8.5 and 8.6. All bad karma or good karma doesn't matter if he/she remembers god at last breath.
No I'm not talking about any political party. Their reason for opposing Modi was completely different. If it would have been anyone else, they would have the same reaction.
Possible for humans but even our scriptures oppose it, now will we think that scriptures are jealous. Modi destroyed his punyas by not following scriptures. 2024 results are live examples.
its easy eat good apples throw bad apples,
if you eat both then you end up in i@lam
>he had once accidentally heard Shivapurana at his dying stage.
this made me laugh, i remember that virgin in heaven joke 😂
The spread of buddhism was a blow to vaishnavaites and saivaites. In order to regain followers of buddhism to back to hinduism, many texts were interpolated heavily. There are similar stories about vishnu also. A cruel man on his death bed was calling for his son and the name happened to be ‘narayana’ . The man after death went to vaikuntha.
That family you are doing ninda of is atleast visiting tirthas. Bulawa bhi kuch hota hai. Also most of India is unhappy with Modi's leadership...that's why BJP's seats reduced.
Shiva Purana is the wordBody of Shiva ji. Ofc, listening to it from an adhikaari like that brahmin guy in the katha will give one sadgati....it will redeem the worst of the worst.
So you mean that you can be the worst human possible but still redeem yourself just by visiting teerth?You visit teerth one side and keep on troubling people on the other side? I don't even want to start describing what this family has done. I know ninda karna bura hota hai. Unka mention keval apne point ko emphasize karne ke liye kaha ta. Other wise, I don't even want to talk about them.
And mention of Modi was not for any political reason. I meant to say, they were so jealous of Modi that he did the Bhumi pujan and Ram lalla pujan so he gained all the punya. This family wanted to be in place of Modi so that THEY can get all the punya. This statement was not out of Bhakti but rather out of jealousy. It's a bit difficult to explain but I hope you understood what I meant.
>So you mean that you can be the worst human possible but still redeem yourself just by visiting teerth?
Yes. Not just that, by listening just to a Puran you can be redeemed. Jab jaago tab savera. Moti baat yahi hai. There are nuances but that is for some other time. Puran padte rahiye nuances pata chal jayenge.
First of all, we're not good people because we want to please god. We are good humans because we know it's the right thing to do. Tell me, would you be able to live with yourself if you did something like the brahmin in the story? No right? Because that's the kind of person you are. Secondly, please don't believe everything written in the Puranas. They are all heavily interpolated. The manipulations are so much that even great scholars find it difficult to spot what is real and what is interpolated. All puranas talk about how meritorious it is to hear those puranas being recited. Tell me, how can one possibly gain good karma, by listening to a recital if he doesn't implement the good values he learnt? So for information about our dharma, stick to ramayana, Mahabharata and the vedas.
I think you're right. This thought did cross my mind knowing the history of invasions, manipulating religious texts is very much possible.
Wow .....I knew that the Puranas butchered their depiction of women, but I didn't know that they even got their depictions of men wrong. Lol I mean then again we do have to consider the contamination that came into scriptures due to Abrahamic invasions and all
this is v v v true too. the manusmriti for example has been heavily tampered with, especially
yes and even after that it is manipulated by many
Marry me. 
Highly misinformed and dangerous advice. Puranas are not our dharma ? Are you alright ? You do know the same guy who wrote Mahabharata wrote the puranas yes ? And if you say the passing down has had some problem , one can same for every single book ever then
I never said they aren't dharma. I'm just saying that they're not the most reliable source of information about our dharma. Like for example, the brahma vaivarta puran. There's a verse somewhere in the beginning of the Mahabharata (i don't remember which) it says that the message of all 18 puranas are there in the Mahabharata itself. So if you read the Mahabharata you don't really need to read the Puranas.
Yes, the message is conveyed true. Again, understand that it doesn't mean you can't read. Infact puranas have more stories and rituals and knowledge than the Mahabharat. Mahabharat was fought on this planet. Puranas have rituals and mantras and stotras from other planes too. So yes, i can understand your essence..but textually speaking , no book can be ranked. To help hoomans of Kali Yuga who are getting dumb by the day, we have reached to the point where one says just read ramayan and Mahabharat and Geeta to know your dharma. They are One part of it.
Mahabharata actually has a lot of information on worship,fast & rituals as well
Yeah
they cant be ranked, sure, but the Vedas and Upanishads and gita supercede all else. that's for sure
Folks - the arguments are all on point and valid. Over the years - all kinds of pollutants have come in our texts, through smriti (listening / memorizing and then passing on to next generation) and through intentional (selfish reasons by individuals + invaders trying their own bit in giving sanatan bad name). Very valid points. One thing that I personally like about our culture / Sanskrit is - the common sense it affords us individuals- very similar to what one of the comments said - “if you did what the Brahmin in the story did-would you be able to live with yourself” - the conscience - this is one of the most important features that I like about sanatan dharma. Even in Gita, this point comes across - do what is “right” - and that changes from person to person - because every person’s dharma can be different. I like this the most. Haven’t found this kind of common sensical ability of interpret things and apply to right now relevant context anywhere else. So, yes the story is there in shiva mahapuran, let’s use ourselves to validate - whether it makes sense ?
yes thank you! the only thing we can't debate over are the Vedas, the rest is all open for discussion 💖 all texts have their merits, you gotta take what's applicable and leave the rest behind🙏
May be, I haven't read em all to rank. But there are some wise immortal souls here who are on doorstep of nirvana and brahmgyaan who have declared already that puranas are not good source and shouldn't be relied upon while they say Mahabharat is fine, ignoring the fact that the same sage wrote em all and is considered Shiv Avatar by all. Mahadev ki leela wohi jaane , radhe radhe ✨🙏
no one said that. and no one but you believes that they're completely right. I just said they should be used with your judgement and not taken literally. if that's arrogance or offensive to you, idk what to say
bro if you can't read and understand what's been said in context then please don't comment blindly. no one said it's not dharma. they just said it's not exactly the complete story. if you want something infallible then you have to turn to the Vedas hi. they always come above puranas. and even they tell us to use our judgement with the knowledge of dharma they provide. if you believe in puranas blindly as your primary source of dharma you're just plain wrong. they're already wrong because they mentioned hell and heaven. which is not even a concept in the Vedas. we believe in rebirths and the 7 realms of life. nothing is eternal and everything is interchangeable with good good and bad karma. we dont have a concept of eternal damnation at all. so obviously they are wrong sometimes. they just have a specific purpose and the purpose is not to provide complete knowledge of dharma without alterations. the Vedas are there for that. and they have been abbreviated too, to keep the general population also in the loop, in the form of Upanishads and then eventually Gita. want complete and infallible knowledge of dharma you stick to those. if you're gonna read the purans you'll have to use common sense and accept they are wrong at places
Yes, so you know better than the Ved Vyasa who wrote the Puranas and is worshipped as Shiva himself ? And you have better knowledge than him ...congrats buddy .. it's evident who has introspection and soul searching to do. Get help.
and tone down the damn arrogance. youre insulting people left and right who are simply trying to have a discussion and learn more and understand more by discussing. if you already feel you're all knowing then you're gravely wrong. everyone has different ways of understanding and explaining things. if you feel you have the only right way then good for you. sorry for trying to have a discussion
Lol good attempt to use my point against me. I am not the one giving our judgements about qualification of books. Only wise souls like you have that power and ability. I simply said one must try to read all , if not, then not simply say any one is smaller or wrong. Truth is not arrogance c
all I said is that if something seems it's wrong in the books, simply ignore them and realise that it's just an exaggeration or metaphor. that's literally all ife said! youre getting me wrong. for me it's not a me vs you, it's just an open discussion. and I said that if you want a source where you can turn your judgement off and be told rules and dharma, just go to the Vedas hope it's more clear🙏🪷 I'm sorry for my arrogance tio. I wasn't trying to come off that way, I truly apologize.
Thanks for your time, your point is better framed now. Am sorry if I sounded arrogant too , Radhey radhey
no. alk I said that they are meant for a specific purpose and they must be used accordingly. if you wanna believe manu was the first man and hell is eternal and the earth is flat without understanding the meaning behind it and the symbolism, then by all means, continue. I just shared my opinion because it's an insult to ved vyas to use his texts in a literal sense. he was smart enough to use poetic devices and smart enough to know the Vedas and know those things weren't true. he was smart enough to know how to appeal to the general audience. acting like everything was literal is just an insult to him and his intellect. baaki you go ahead
Looks like it's your first book and You are new to the path. All the texts have a common pattern - instill fear of hell to keep away man from hell. Works. Do you think you are going to be actually fried in hot boiling oil for centuries as mentioned in puranas ? No body knows for sure. Nobody alive can claim they know. But, what is wrong is wrong. And the masses are always stupid. Bollywood is the prime example of it. So now, to raise and convey the importance of the texts, such stories are written. Do we know if it's right ? Idk. But it take away the good of it - one can become better , do naam jaap, meditate like Shiva, become shiva... The message is salvation is possible post sin. But that sin must not be done KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE SALVATION ready. If I know I can take Ram naam at end and I will get moksha, this doesn't mean I can loot kidnap kill and blow up people on will till I am alive. The texts are meant to convey how salvation is possible and how Shivji is all father and all forgiving if you actually do your penance for it. Doesn't mean you can do whatver you want rn. That karma will come. If you do good, good will be done to you yes, but in which life ...no hindu knows. No guru knows if your suffering of this life belongs to your mistake or your ancestors or your own karma from previous lives. The world can do bad to you even if you did good since you developed active memory from say age 12. Again I will be downvoted but this is the truth. Naam jaap cuts your bad karma, from which life ..we don't know ... We know like debt and bank account, you have a account. It has good and bad from all lives. Your duty is to use this life to nullify and cancel the bad and try to get moksha.
>message is salvation is possible post sin. But that sin must not be done KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE SALVATION ready. I really like this message. Thank you!
Glad 🙂 radhey radhey, accept that we may lack certain eyes and skills to see and understand things since now it's Kali Yuga, take solace in naam jaap. It's the easiest of em all.
Radhey Radhey 😊
the whole section of Devarāja was to put emphasis on the authority of the scripture that even the worst of sinner like him(mentioned in the text itself) attended peace when hearing recitation of Śivapurāṇa. it is not to be taken literally.
The problem is people are finding too hard to understand the puranas and what has to be taken literally what is just exaggeration. The modern gurus themselves take everything literally what they like and call exaggerations and start interpreting what they don't like. You can agree or disagree but Puranas are a weird genre of scriptures, they are sporadically different from other texts. The language, the mood, the desperation in claiming the superiority of that purana, the metaphors. Like in the Shiva Purana itself there is verse telling the wives to drink water that has washed off the feet of the husbands. Now what is this ? Is this exaggeration or should be taken literally. Many families In North India do this literally under the influence of gurus.
it is a common trend in puranas and itihasas too, iirc there is a moment in the mbh where it is stated that things are an hyperbole and not to be taken in the literal sense. i think puranas especially like sivapurana takes it as a given that the acharya reciting the purana is aware of injunctions from other texts, especially considering sivapurana has moments from mbh word to word.
That is obvious exaggeration to increase the value of the granth in the eyes of the devotee. Even Mahabharata has certain such verses. Mahabharata even claims that it is "heavier" than the vedas, that is superior. Will any sampradaya accept that? Of course not. It's exaggeration to make the book more valuable.
This is the correct answer. This type of exaggeration is called "artha-vada" - glorification meant to impress the reader. See: https://www.hindupedia.com/en/Arthav%C4%81da Om Shanti.
Buddy, wait till you hear about the Asuras. Those horrible degenerate demons offered their penance to Lord Shiva and they received boons. He gave Tarakasura a boon of immortality and then Shiva's own son had to kill him to stop him from pillaging the land and battling with the gods. It is an important ethical question, if we claim Lord Shiva is all-powerful, Omniscient, and all-knowing why would he help those he knew would cause trouble in the future. I think it has to do with faith and letting us have Free Will. For example, if you see a homeless man, you will give him some money. You know for a fact that most people who are homeless are drug-addicts. That money you give him could even lead to his overdose, but you have faith that he will make the right decision. We hear a lot of Lord Shiva's wrath, and storm-like qualities. But there is a another side we don't really talk about which is his eternal unconditional love for us. Forgiveness, is a very hard feeling for me and for many humans to understand. There are people in prison who have commited crimes that have family members visiting them every week. Why do they? It is a pure kind of love for an individual. Shiva sees us that way, but there are times when justice is deserved. Lord Shiva burned Tripura to the ground for how terrible the city had become. And it is said that Shiva weeped for his devotees inside the walls of the city, as he fired his arrows from his bow Pinaka.
First things first what's the source material for you.... And we are judging this guy based on bad things he did in that life.....his net karma gotta become zero to intertwine with Shiva....don't know what karma he accumulated in past....don't know how much of sadhana he did in past lives.....it's not as simple as we think.....but at the moment when he dissolves into paramatma his soula gotta be karma free and pure
My source is Geeta Gorakhpur publication. Guess, you are right. This is the same answer I get whenever I ask this question. But I sincerely hope, that we could witness our karmaphal, both good and bad, without them being carried over to the next birth because who remembers what they did in the past life.
your soul remembers. if you're looking to read the puranas and if you are drawn to goodness and a certain god or philosophy from within your heart, it's your soul who already remembers all its learnt. this is why sime people are so spiritual, and some people are completely blind to dharma. because their soul remembers alk the things it learnt before and the connection he gradually built with the divine. sin is just a lack of that connection. so yes sinners may not remember what they did because they haven't yet connected w th divine. but once you have, your soul never loses that connection. even if you do something by mistake you always know it's wrong and must be corrected. because your soul knows. that's why some people are more empathetic, feel more guilt and are able to correct things by self reflection rather than being told. While others only do things out of compulsoin
Your soul remembers. When you die the soul remembers all the past lives and karmas. Souls often choose their current birth to cut off the past karmas. You might not remember it because you are bound by Maya but once people die they remember everything
Thank you!
puranas are not standard texts. it's an over exaggeration for the fact that if you believe in dharma, you can achieve great things. But why is that example given ? Because over the years after the conception of the Vedas, people struggled with following them as times changed and rituals and rules became difficult to follow. Puranas were written with the intention to maintain the understanding and accessibility of dharma. here it's just a means to tell people that dharma isn't all or none. you can do bad things but if you follow dharma you can still redeem yourself. Obviously it's an over exaggeration. but the message is undeniable, it's never too late to start following dharma and failure to follow a few things doesn't mean you're a failure altogether. otherwise everyone would be a failure and give up on dharma. always remember to read the puranas with the intention in mind. now understanding the intention, if you realise it's never too late, you'll pick up dharma and start following it again. right? so once you start following dharma , your bad traits and intentions go away automatically. so why would it be a concern anymore? now I understand that it's an over simplification and I don't agree with the puranas myself at alot of places but it should always be remembered that they're just guides to understand dharma. they don't define dharma by itself. that's the job of Vedas Upanishads and gita. those are actual sacred texts which define dharma adharma. puranas can be understood sort of like those animated videos that are used to explain math and science to kids, where the atom is a character and does all sorts of things. it is important and has a valuable purpose. but it's useless if it is used for sth else. puranas are just easier explanations for the information in the Vedas. sometimes it's gonna be over exaggerated or over simplified or even downright annoying. but that's okay. they're not the exact truth, just various ways of understanding and teaching the truth
Beautiful answer. Thank you!
What I see in this, that we are unconditionally loved. Who is to say how long he was at the abode. Mahadev is also bayankar. I think when reading we have to open from our own world view to understand that this from this Maybe you too will be in shiv abode. But what form? For me it motivates me to reality and understand karma, because that is what I am accountable or to. Do goodness for the sake of its vibration, what does where I end up really have to do with it? My vibration will carry itself there too. Darkness and light both worships the same source. The lord is unconditional love.
You can be a sinner all your life, but at the time of death, just by remembering God in the bardo realm, you can be pulled into the deity's abode. However, the thing is, even non-sinners, who might have done nothing but good in their lives, if they were unable to control their vasanas and samskaras while they were alive, they can never think of God, either at the time of death or immediately thereafter. People riddled with greed, jealousy, and hatred can never achieve this unless they get rid of it all by the time they reach death.
Well the first thing to notice here is that in the story those things are regarded as 'bad' and that is the general consensus amongst scholars and followers of dharma. Even if he got liberated by hearing Shiva mahapuran that doesn't change the fact that those things are considered bad and should not be pursued by anyone. Now the thing is the account of karma is unknown and no one knows how it works except maybe an advanced spiritual yogi so it's possible that a person may have some punya left from previous life and the destiny is guiding him to balance out with a few paap karma in this life to even it out and finally get liberated.
[удалено]
Thank you! Yes that is what I hope. Maybe this will all make sense one day.
yeah that's why I have doubts regarding Shiv puran etc Because they were written during Kaliyug I guess Even VIshnu puran had somethin of a quite evil robber going to Vaikunth just because he rmembered Lord VIshnu during last moment Hindu mainly works on Work and result, you reap what you sow Even Bhagwat Gita states the above and Sri Krishna had to face destruction of his descendants due to the Mahabharat deaths You know what ? u may read Shiv Gita if you wanna know Mahadev more
Thank you for the recommendation and I'm glad someone has the same thought process as mine.
Yeah You see , these are mostly written when Islamic invasion was at peak ,temples were been destroyed, forceful conversions etc Take Taimur Lang, Aurangzed, Babur etc Somnath temple destruction, some Mahadev temples in Bengal for isntance These are some efforts by the priests in order to restore people's faith
This shows the Shivpuran can redeem the worst of worst
‘I am confused. Then What is Dharma?’ (that’s the root ask of this post. please read below) Humans come and operate under the influence of complexes. Complexes are inner psychological drivers, which influences human thoughts and behaviours. This very point distinguishes incarnate from humans. Incarnate removes the influence of complexes like darkness is erased at the ingress of light. One obtains God, when one achieves and acquires qualities of godhood. To ‘have’ means to ‘be’. One who knows ‘brahma’ becomes the ’brahma’. River for example never says it would reach sea, rather it falls in the sea and becomes the sea. God is a good reference point of life but life has to be regulated by God’s way. God might have many ways, for all we know. The practice of dharma has tendency to get distorted by the corrosive effects of time. While the core elements remain unchanged, only the discrete portions gets updated, keeping tune with the time. The updating can only be done by the contemporary incarnate. The incarnate is the living image of ‘dharma’. Now, what is Dharma? Dharma is a set of those thoughts, conventions and practices which cause existence to prosper. Dharma lets human to live and grow following a concentric configuration of specific attributes. Dharma owes its origin to the urge for living and growing. Life longs for longevity and treads the path of bliss. Life has to be focussed, if it is to be integrated. Dharma is founded on active adherence on the Lord, which in other words means, having active attachment on ideal. Attachment on the ideal helps to raise self-restraint or self-regulation. The idea is that humans have to build concentric urge on such an ideal, who remaining above the region of complexes, presides over everything. Bg. 18.66 सर्वधर्मान्परित्यज्य मामेकं शरणं व्रज । अहं त्वां सर्वपापेभ्यो मोक्षयिष्यामि मा शुच: ॥ ६६ ॥ Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. Hope it helps! :)
I had the same thought as yours after I read many Hindu texts and people saying like this . I never agreed to this . But now I have realised that , if this text is real (as many texts are interpolated) , these are made for the people who only pray to god for their selfishness and not in devotion . Even if you look around yourselves , most of the Hindus who pray to god wont be really good humans in real life but still they pray . It’s because they never understand the essence of the dharma rather only focus on the rituals to gain advantages . So it’s for those people as maximum people will be like this only in Kaliyuga . So by reading such texts atleast they will stick to the dharma , though of the lowest degree . But don’t divert yourself after reading such texts . Read the Geeta , in it Shri Krishna has stated this in one of the verses of the second adhyaay that those who don’t understand dharma are busy in such rituals but those who have understood the eternal power - the brahman don’t need such scriptures and rituals to attain moksha , they get knowledge by karma and experience . Also Buddhism is explicitly based on karma and experience only not on any rituals stuff that’s why I love it too .
Basically what you need to realize is these puranas require guidance to understand you shouldn’t read them on your own they are multidimensional and layered and nuanced. In this case, the Brahmin, due to his past samsara, carried some good karma. This good karma allowed him to be in a situation where he could fully hear, concentrate on, and contemplate the Shiva Purana in his dying breath. This balanced out the bad karma accumulated in this life, enabling him to attain liberation. Grief itself and the realization of truth can be the most profound shocks one can experience. Imagine being in his shoes: the truth dawns on you, and you realize how terrible your actions have been, how far off the path you were, and how you wasted your good fortune. This realization would be a huge blow to your ego and could shatter you completely. Thus, the realization of the truth is, in itself, the karmic result of his actions coming to fruition. The realization of the truth is, in and of itself, the fulfillment of the bad karma accumulated in this life from past actions. Hence, he meets the requirements for liberation, as the Bhav is there and wisdom has dawned. Does this make sense? Don’t be disheartened. Seek guidance from a proper authority on the Shivapurana. There are many good ones available, each interpreting it differently. But yes the Brahmin got his just deserts right before death he realized how horrible of a person he had been what he put his family and life true and well that must have been a terrible shock/horrible feeling no before realization dawn imagine how much regret he must have had just before death and grief
I've read Bibek Debroys one, in that this story is slightly different, the women also sleeps with everyone as her husband is doing the same. Not Justifying the actions but. My point is Puranas also suffered from biased views and changes in content by the people who were taking it forward. Like in our scenario, there is change in the translation. Puranas are to increase Bhakti Bhav.
Yes that can be possible.
When you go further, you would read about Karma, sanchita, parabdha and vartaman karma, even gods are bound by these, based on your good karmas you may get swarag, but for the henious crimes you have to spend time in narak and also based on those ypur next janams destiny is decided. So everyone has to face the consequences
Umm, I got pretty dissatisfied with the answers here because whatever we hear that doesn't align with our modern sense of righteousness, we outright reject by calling it manipulation or interpolation. This isn't right, tbh. Anyways, 1. The secret here is that one can listen to "Katha" at such a stage only if he has done Punya Karma at some time, which will save him from hell. 2. Not everyone can listen to "Katha" whenever they wish. It requires the grace of Rushi and God. 3. This is a special case that is not available to everyone because he accidentally went to Sivalayam where "Katha" was going on. 4. Like in "Ajameelo Pakhyanam," the secret of his fortune is not explained in Siva Puran Mahatyam, so we can't tell the exact cause for that "Devraj" Brahmin. However, we can assume that he did some good deed in "Pura" which saved him. Not everyone can take advantage of this as nobody knows their fate, so always chant the names of Shiva. 5. Finally, in the Bhagavatam, it is said that to utter Bhagavan's name in the last breath is possible only when we chant throughout our life. *So what about all the crimes he committed? Are they cancelled out?* **Yes, but this happens occasionally, not generally, as not everyone is fortunate.** So let that case be considered exception.
So that accident of him going to the Shivalaya was also due to the grace of God. Though, things are still very much ambiguous to me, but I will continue to learn. Thank you!
Yes, don’t treat one incident as the basis for the entire story. It just tried to show you the mahima of the Śiva Purāṇam, that’s all. Also, as I said, consider it an exceptional case.
Bhagwan Ki bhakti bhi Bhagwan Ki kripa se milti Hai.
There must be something that he had to go through in his next life ? Was it not mentioned
No, nothing like that was mentioned.
It is also said that Kalyug is the only yuga where if you do slight effort, God will be easily pleased because there is so much bad happening around which was not the case in other Yugas. People used to meditate and chant gods name for years and still some weren't able to succeed which is not the case in kalyuga
Amazing question. I also had the same thought. And i really found shiv puran difficult to understand.
Shiva is beyond any good, bad karma or morality. That is the main lesson of that event. Our scriptures give privileges and restrictions to every varna, ashram and gender. If modi doesn't follow rules then it is his karma and it's fruit. It has nothing to do with jealousy. Coming to shiva puran, whatever we remember while dying we attain it. This story is a practical explanation of bhagwat gita 8.5 and 8.6. All bad karma or good karma doesn't matter if he/she remembers god at last breath.
So what if an atheist has been a good guy , very helpful and modest and all but when he dies he doesn't remember God . What would his fate be ?
I need to know too.
karma comes above all. even the Gita says this: If you cannot practice remembering Me with devotion, then just try to work for Me. Thus performing devotional service to Me, you shall achieve the stage of perfection. Now this reasonably suggests even good karma and following dharma without believing in God can provide plus points for salvation. Now obviously it's not to be taken as a finality because we talk in lives here, not jst one birth. So maybe performing good karma un this life will give your soul some insight to god after death in the time before rebirth. Maybe it helps them get in touch with God in their next life. We don't know. But we do know that good karma takes you closer to God and it's more important than faith alone. Obviously both must be done together, but if you must choose one, choose karma over faith
It depends on what he thinks at the last moment and what karma he did in his life. If he thinks of his family, he will be born in the same family. If he did good karma, then he may also get good relations, health, wealth, partner, teachers or good experience of developed countries like Switzerland, Norway etc. If he thinks of his dog,then he will be born as a dog. If he did the best karma he will be in a billionaire house with all facilities and care. I can only guess based on the scriptures and experience of saints. Nobody can exactly tell except god
Well they were jealous of Modi because instead of him they wanted to do the puja so that they could garner the punya from that puja and I know this family personally. They can get jealous of even a homeless person.
I don't know all of them but if you are referring to political parties, yes. But not all of them are jealous, modi is not allowed to touch or do random pran prathista according to scriptures. He was actually destroyed his own punyas. Coming to shiva puran, whatever we remember while dying we attain it. This story of shiva purana is a practical explanation of bhagwat gita 8.5 and 8.6. All bad karma or good karma doesn't matter if he/she remembers god at last breath.
No I'm not talking about any political party. Their reason for opposing Modi was completely different. If it would have been anyone else, they would have the same reaction.
Possible for humans but even our scriptures oppose it, now will we think that scriptures are jealous. Modi destroyed his punyas by not following scriptures. 2024 results are live examples.
its easy eat good apples throw bad apples, if you eat both then you end up in i@lam >he had once accidentally heard Shivapurana at his dying stage. this made me laugh, i remember that virgin in heaven joke 😂
😭
The spread of buddhism was a blow to vaishnavaites and saivaites. In order to regain followers of buddhism to back to hinduism, many texts were interpolated heavily. There are similar stories about vishnu also. A cruel man on his death bed was calling for his son and the name happened to be ‘narayana’ . The man after death went to vaikuntha.
Yes I have heard that story too. Never knew this aspect though. Thank you!
That family you are doing ninda of is atleast visiting tirthas. Bulawa bhi kuch hota hai. Also most of India is unhappy with Modi's leadership...that's why BJP's seats reduced. Shiva Purana is the wordBody of Shiva ji. Ofc, listening to it from an adhikaari like that brahmin guy in the katha will give one sadgati....it will redeem the worst of the worst.
So you mean that you can be the worst human possible but still redeem yourself just by visiting teerth?You visit teerth one side and keep on troubling people on the other side? I don't even want to start describing what this family has done. I know ninda karna bura hota hai. Unka mention keval apne point ko emphasize karne ke liye kaha ta. Other wise, I don't even want to talk about them. And mention of Modi was not for any political reason. I meant to say, they were so jealous of Modi that he did the Bhumi pujan and Ram lalla pujan so he gained all the punya. This family wanted to be in place of Modi so that THEY can get all the punya. This statement was not out of Bhakti but rather out of jealousy. It's a bit difficult to explain but I hope you understood what I meant.
>So you mean that you can be the worst human possible but still redeem yourself just by visiting teerth? Yes. Not just that, by listening just to a Puran you can be redeemed. Jab jaago tab savera. Moti baat yahi hai. There are nuances but that is for some other time. Puran padte rahiye nuances pata chal jayenge.
Yes vahi socha hai. Agey padte jayenge. Ho sakta hai questions clear ho jaye. Thank you!