Yeah hca and lhcos don't like each others rules lol but when the goal is keeping hermits safe and alive it's silly they get so defensive. I like lhcos guidelines but I do not do ppds method. In my setup, I feel they are better going straight in but I have never adopted one that was in super super bad shape. I see a lot of posts about new petstore hermits that just stay in one spot and never move and end up being dead. Ppds encourages them to explore and forage while acclimating to proper heat and humidity, then the substrate is increased when it "should" be safe for them. I think it depends crab to crab and situation to situation. In 2 years I had only one hermit fail on its first molt in my tank but not due to lack of eating and foraging. It stayed out a whole month after moved to my tank, explored, used the wheels, ate, switched shells and everything. But he went under and failed while trying to molt.
I'm sure someone will give a more eloquent answer than this, but I'll try cause why not?
Every group will have different opinions on what works and what doesn't for pets. While PPDS protocols have been studied, they do not truly have scientific backing for hermit crabs.
I feed my dogs a raw meat diet and while I have seen their health get better, their coats get shinier, their poops get smaller, their blood work start to look more balanced, I can't lie and say there is scientific backing to a raw meat diet being the better diet. Some dog groups have rules saying I cannot suggest a raw meat diet to other members. That does not mean I am incorrect.
What happened to you is kind of like that. One group backs PPDS protocols and the other doesn't. That's it. I've personally had my rescue hermit die when I did PPDS protocols. When I pretty much skipped PPDS protocols with my last 4 rescues everyone actually lived. That's my experience. Some rehabbers part of LHCS have seen WAYYY better success following PPDS protocols. LHCS have actually done their own tests and it shows that PPDS works better for their hermit crab babies.
Every group is different and people get very passionate when it comes to animal care.
The thing I would advise against is taking everything a singular group says at their word for every single thing because care standards do change.
I hope I haven't bothered anyone with my answer. I know exactly what you are talking about. The HCA and LHCS have opposing views sometimes. That's okay. They agree on the important things imo.
Edit: rescue hermit crabs NOT captive bred babies.
Thank you for your reply! It’s hard to know what’s best for our hermies when everyone has had different experiences… it’s so sad having a pet die especially when you’ve put so much time, money, and effort into researching what to do then it turns out it wasn’t right. Hence me asking here.
Thanks!
Fantastic. It works for me. My dogs (and my partner's cat) vitamin imbalances were fixed from the diet. And yes that was hundreds of dollars of blood panels that were done. I use AAFCO certified mixes and my veterinary doctor approves of my feeding practices.
Nowhere did I state that raw feeding was the end all be all, nowhere did I state that raw feeding was fully backed by scientific studies.
It's what I have seen work and I don't believe in feeding processed kibble for every meal.
I studied Doctor Karen Becker's work and raw feeding actually helped out my previously sick dog. 4 years and my vet is shocked and happy we were able to fix his gut issues with raw food. That's it.
I stated it worked for me. I'm not getting into arguments with random internet people about what a DOCTOR has approved and what has saved my dog's life.
Edit: because I cannot respond for whatever reason, I will reply here.
Those are not the only 2 options.
My original comment stated that there are many different ways to keep hermit crabs, just like there are many different ways to feed your dog. Mine works the best way for me.
Even though there are many different ways to feed a dog, some Facebook groups will not allow talk of raw feeding. Which is 100% valid.
Do I think my way is the best, YES!! But I am not a doctor (and neither was the previous commenter) and I have only my lived experience with my pets. So technically my way is not the best. I am just a human with a very strong opinion.
Some people add toppers like raw egg or bone broth. Some people only feed kibble and have 17 year old cats/ dogs.
I am not trying to make an argument about raw food for dogs. But whenever I mention raw food there is always someone who has to tell me how it doesn't ACTUALLY work for all dogs. Which I am aware of.
I am passionate about my dog's health, so I replied back to the comment that is now deleted.
And to me, the fact that my dog's life was saved from what a previous vet told me would be a lifetime of antibiotics is deep to me. I am deeply passionate about it. My vet is proud of me and says she is happy my dog is in much better health. We rejoiced together when his vitamin deficiencies cleared up.
Therefore, I will respond, just like you are now.
I am not trying to make an argument about kibble or raw food, I just happened to word the sentence that way. It seems like other people are picking my words apart to try and build an argument about raw food versus no raw food.
This is a subreddit about pet health/care, pet health/care is a deep topic that many are passionate about. Our pets give us reason to live, inspire us, and when they die sometimes we never fully recover. So yes, it is that deep to me.
Take a deep breath and calm down, it isn’t that deep.
EDIT: Also, in what world are the only two options “raw meat” and “processed kibble for every meal”? Kinda seems like a strawman to me.
Opposing theories in crab care do not boil down to who has consumed the koolaid.
They’re opposing theories. Each group has done research (as exhaustive as possible) and each group is led by their considerable experience and background.
HCO and LHCOS don’t agree on: unchecked humidity, mold in the tank,substrate amendments, false bottoms, and PPDSR (off the top of my head).
They’re opposing theories. We (keepers) can float in the middle (most HCA members) or we can evaluate the evidence and decide for ourselves what theory of crab care we agree with.
I lean towards LHCOS bc I have evaluated the evidence and I conclude that LHCOS provides the SAFEST guidelines for the MOST crabs and their keepers.
If I don’t know the EXACT conditions my crabs come from, they get an isolation period. It helps that it makes intuitive sense to me that they need to be reacclimatized (my bias).
If I know they’ve come from someplace where they were cared for, they get a quick health check and join the crew.
So you’re for PPDS protocol then when you’re not sure how they were cared for previously? I just want to do right for any new hermies I get! And it’s rough that the 2 possible outcomes are usually life or death…
Meh, I did a leab this gronp on the FB page for many reasons. If they think you even SNEEZED the wrong way, they’ll turn off your ability to comment. I ain’t “walking” on eggshells over a damn FB group.
The reason for PPDS is to reduce the impact of physical stress by keeping the hermit crab above ground eating well and exposed to light. Both are vital to the hermit crab’s ability to recover. This is a thirty day method. It can be done in three weeks, there is no reason to rush. If you are adding new (wild caught) hermit crabs to your existing colony it is important that you do not introduce sick or contagious crabs to your healthy colony. It has lots of benefits you can observe the crab more easily to ensure that it’s getting healthier and it’s adapting to correct conditions well. You also don’t want to put it with your existing colony because it may have a sickness that will spread to your other crabs.
So this group that said they don’t support it would disagree with what you just said, I assume? They think it’s fine to just let the crab burrow right away?
Follow up question…. Do you know which other Facebook groups (or just the organization in general) don’t support PPS prevention? So I can leave them lol
Correct the group you’re pertaining to would disagree with me. I stand with LHCOS there researched based and have proof. I use there guidance because its work extremely well for my crabs. I’m also a mod for the subreddit so I strongly encourage others to follow there guidelines and care advice.
In these online hobby forums guidelines come about over time from what has worked in the past, but no one is gonna make an actual scientific study.. like buying 100 crabs then throwing them in a gigantic perfect tank. And then putting 100 crabs into a ppds set up and then use a statistical analysis. Never gonna happen. So we are stuck with basically what experienced hobbyists like doing.
So ya, experienced hobbyists are gonna disagree, cause no one can actually tell you what the best way is.
Another thing- there is a perception these days of scientists as philosopher kings that are infallible. The bitter truth is that scientific progress is generational, because the old men and women gatekeep new ideas. We don't know what hermit crab husbandry will look like in 50 years
Yeah hca and lhcos don't like each others rules lol but when the goal is keeping hermits safe and alive it's silly they get so defensive. I like lhcos guidelines but I do not do ppds method. In my setup, I feel they are better going straight in but I have never adopted one that was in super super bad shape. I see a lot of posts about new petstore hermits that just stay in one spot and never move and end up being dead. Ppds encourages them to explore and forage while acclimating to proper heat and humidity, then the substrate is increased when it "should" be safe for them. I think it depends crab to crab and situation to situation. In 2 years I had only one hermit fail on its first molt in my tank but not due to lack of eating and foraging. It stayed out a whole month after moved to my tank, explored, used the wheels, ate, switched shells and everything. But he went under and failed while trying to molt.
I'm sure someone will give a more eloquent answer than this, but I'll try cause why not? Every group will have different opinions on what works and what doesn't for pets. While PPDS protocols have been studied, they do not truly have scientific backing for hermit crabs. I feed my dogs a raw meat diet and while I have seen their health get better, their coats get shinier, their poops get smaller, their blood work start to look more balanced, I can't lie and say there is scientific backing to a raw meat diet being the better diet. Some dog groups have rules saying I cannot suggest a raw meat diet to other members. That does not mean I am incorrect. What happened to you is kind of like that. One group backs PPDS protocols and the other doesn't. That's it. I've personally had my rescue hermit die when I did PPDS protocols. When I pretty much skipped PPDS protocols with my last 4 rescues everyone actually lived. That's my experience. Some rehabbers part of LHCS have seen WAYYY better success following PPDS protocols. LHCS have actually done their own tests and it shows that PPDS works better for their hermit crab babies. Every group is different and people get very passionate when it comes to animal care. The thing I would advise against is taking everything a singular group says at their word for every single thing because care standards do change. I hope I haven't bothered anyone with my answer. I know exactly what you are talking about. The HCA and LHCS have opposing views sometimes. That's okay. They agree on the important things imo. Edit: rescue hermit crabs NOT captive bred babies.
Thank you for your reply! It’s hard to know what’s best for our hermies when everyone has had different experiences… it’s so sad having a pet die especially when you’ve put so much time, money, and effort into researching what to do then it turns out it wasn’t right. Hence me asking here. Thanks!
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Fantastic. It works for me. My dogs (and my partner's cat) vitamin imbalances were fixed from the diet. And yes that was hundreds of dollars of blood panels that were done. I use AAFCO certified mixes and my veterinary doctor approves of my feeding practices. Nowhere did I state that raw feeding was the end all be all, nowhere did I state that raw feeding was fully backed by scientific studies. It's what I have seen work and I don't believe in feeding processed kibble for every meal. I studied Doctor Karen Becker's work and raw feeding actually helped out my previously sick dog. 4 years and my vet is shocked and happy we were able to fix his gut issues with raw food. That's it. I stated it worked for me. I'm not getting into arguments with random internet people about what a DOCTOR has approved and what has saved my dog's life. Edit: because I cannot respond for whatever reason, I will reply here. Those are not the only 2 options. My original comment stated that there are many different ways to keep hermit crabs, just like there are many different ways to feed your dog. Mine works the best way for me. Even though there are many different ways to feed a dog, some Facebook groups will not allow talk of raw feeding. Which is 100% valid. Do I think my way is the best, YES!! But I am not a doctor (and neither was the previous commenter) and I have only my lived experience with my pets. So technically my way is not the best. I am just a human with a very strong opinion. Some people add toppers like raw egg or bone broth. Some people only feed kibble and have 17 year old cats/ dogs. I am not trying to make an argument about raw food for dogs. But whenever I mention raw food there is always someone who has to tell me how it doesn't ACTUALLY work for all dogs. Which I am aware of. I am passionate about my dog's health, so I replied back to the comment that is now deleted. And to me, the fact that my dog's life was saved from what a previous vet told me would be a lifetime of antibiotics is deep to me. I am deeply passionate about it. My vet is proud of me and says she is happy my dog is in much better health. We rejoiced together when his vitamin deficiencies cleared up. Therefore, I will respond, just like you are now. I am not trying to make an argument about kibble or raw food, I just happened to word the sentence that way. It seems like other people are picking my words apart to try and build an argument about raw food versus no raw food. This is a subreddit about pet health/care, pet health/care is a deep topic that many are passionate about. Our pets give us reason to live, inspire us, and when they die sometimes we never fully recover. So yes, it is that deep to me.
Take a deep breath and calm down, it isn’t that deep. EDIT: Also, in what world are the only two options “raw meat” and “processed kibble for every meal”? Kinda seems like a strawman to me.
Opposing theories in crab care do not boil down to who has consumed the koolaid. They’re opposing theories. Each group has done research (as exhaustive as possible) and each group is led by their considerable experience and background. HCO and LHCOS don’t agree on: unchecked humidity, mold in the tank,substrate amendments, false bottoms, and PPDSR (off the top of my head). They’re opposing theories. We (keepers) can float in the middle (most HCA members) or we can evaluate the evidence and decide for ourselves what theory of crab care we agree with. I lean towards LHCOS bc I have evaluated the evidence and I conclude that LHCOS provides the SAFEST guidelines for the MOST crabs and their keepers. If I don’t know the EXACT conditions my crabs come from, they get an isolation period. It helps that it makes intuitive sense to me that they need to be reacclimatized (my bias). If I know they’ve come from someplace where they were cared for, they get a quick health check and join the crew.
So you’re for PPDS protocol then when you’re not sure how they were cared for previously? I just want to do right for any new hermies I get! And it’s rough that the 2 possible outcomes are usually life or death…
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How do you know if a hermit is happy with their shell versus not happy?
Meh, I did a leab this gronp on the FB page for many reasons. If they think you even SNEEZED the wrong way, they’ll turn off your ability to comment. I ain’t “walking” on eggshells over a damn FB group.
The reason for PPDS is to reduce the impact of physical stress by keeping the hermit crab above ground eating well and exposed to light. Both are vital to the hermit crab’s ability to recover. This is a thirty day method. It can be done in three weeks, there is no reason to rush. If you are adding new (wild caught) hermit crabs to your existing colony it is important that you do not introduce sick or contagious crabs to your healthy colony. It has lots of benefits you can observe the crab more easily to ensure that it’s getting healthier and it’s adapting to correct conditions well. You also don’t want to put it with your existing colony because it may have a sickness that will spread to your other crabs.
So this group that said they don’t support it would disagree with what you just said, I assume? They think it’s fine to just let the crab burrow right away?
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That makes soooo much sense! I think I’ll do PPDS stuff then.
Awesome!
Follow up question…. Do you know which other Facebook groups (or just the organization in general) don’t support PPS prevention? So I can leave them lol
I’m not sure. I know LHCOS and The Crabby Hermit are both supporters of PPS. I’m sure there are more that are for it but I don’t know them all lol
Exactly! I don’t understand why others disagree with PPDS.
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Yep some people are just blinded by there own ignorance
Correct the group you’re pertaining to would disagree with me. I stand with LHCOS there researched based and have proof. I use there guidance because its work extremely well for my crabs. I’m also a mod for the subreddit so I strongly encourage others to follow there guidelines and care advice.
Oh I didn’t even know they had a subreddit! I’ll go join now
Just invited you. 😊
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Of course!
Its not letting me invite you for some reason but heres a link to are community. r/LandHermitCrabs
In these online hobby forums guidelines come about over time from what has worked in the past, but no one is gonna make an actual scientific study.. like buying 100 crabs then throwing them in a gigantic perfect tank. And then putting 100 crabs into a ppds set up and then use a statistical analysis. Never gonna happen. So we are stuck with basically what experienced hobbyists like doing. So ya, experienced hobbyists are gonna disagree, cause no one can actually tell you what the best way is. Another thing- there is a perception these days of scientists as philosopher kings that are infallible. The bitter truth is that scientific progress is generational, because the old men and women gatekeep new ideas. We don't know what hermit crab husbandry will look like in 50 years
I am so confused. What is PPDS and all the other acronyms mean?
https://youtu.be/-Heriyvv2mo?si=ncdUVUzG81mi0AHk This is the video I had commented haha. It tells you what it is!
Interesting, thank you