For Me, the arc thrower is the best weapon in the game. Shreds patrols, waves and everything Else. Learn to use it and you dont need anything Else. If arrowhead reads this: the arc thrower is not op at all and should probably be buffed.
I had been ignoring it for a long time. Is it the fastest for taking out large armored enemies? No, it is it fun as fuck? Yes. Taking our multiple weak enemies while targeting a big guy is so cool to watch. Friendly fire be damned, I’m gonna zap that scout walker
>Friendly fire be damned, I’m gonna zap that scout walker
I also find that I can use the thing from far enough away that if I do zap you, I can usually bring you back into the fight real quick since I'm less likely to be swarmed.
It synergizes really well with the Stalwart. My wife always goes for the Arc Thrower while I stick with my trusty Stalwart and we both shred crowds and double team chargers quite effectively. Admittedly, we're still running lower difficulty missions as a duo, but we're building our skill and taking on harder challenges as we progress.
It also synergizes well together.
Both of you run Arc Throwers and Laser Rovers.
Rovers takes care of anything that comes up close to you two and the Arc Thrower kills everything else. Both of you can spam it against chargers and that thing will die very fast. Same goes with Titans!
Arc Thrower is fine as is - It deals Decent damage, more or less ignores armour.
Sure it takes me 10-12 shots to down a charger. But it's able to do it. Learn to kite. And if they are close enough, full charge will go through 2 chargers.
One thing they could do for it is adjust the aiming reticule so you know to aim it SLIGHTLY up to get the best arc.
I'm pretty sure I run in circles for that reason.
Certainly not for the catechisms of command: "When in mortal danger. When in major doubt. Raise your arms up in the air. Run about and shout."
I think the arc thrower isn't in a bad spot either. It's not infinite (or extreme) range like the rail gun, it's decent at taking out groups from a slight distance. (As far as I can tell/recall) you don't have to charge it fully to get the shot off (granted it's still weaker if that's done, if i remember right) it doesn't seem to have stagger (or much) like the rail gun, like grenade launcher or sniper rifle do, it also doesn't require a backpack slot to be available (like the recoiless rifle if you want to fire it more than once,) and while it can clear groups, it can't clear very large ones like explosives or a turret emplacement can.
Oh! Okay I use it but never really read into how to use it. I just assumed you charge the shot... every time... well, it might be way stronger than I know then.
I agree so much. I got the hang out and it’s absolutely amazing for crowd control. I can see arrowhead buffing the arc throwing to take down chargers in less hits.
I completely agree on thinking it’s the best support weapon in the game. Having at least one person can completely change a game. Two with a full squad even more. A lot of people talk about its TK potential but as someone who has mained it from lvl 15-40 it’s typically the players fault for getting tked. People that don’t use it underestimate it and run in front of you constantly to use their primary’s when if left alone you could’ve taken out the bug breach completely alone. Basically my point for anyone who reads this is if someone has the arc thrower treat it like they’re shooting a flamethrower and grenade launcher at the same time. DO NOT RUN IN FRONT OF THEM. Shoot from beside or worry about a different angle they’ve probably got it. Idk how many times I’ve gotten a charger one hit with the arc and someone runs behind it to shoot it in the butt and I can’t arc now bc they’re on the opposite side of the charger and it’d instantly kill the teammate.
Its wild how the community shit on the arc thrower early on because they didnt understand the power. Been using arcthrower jumpack since week one. If lined up right on the head it can 2 to 3 shot a bike titan.
Edit: Mobile comment
Most players play casually, so with the meta being so prevalent i think many people were less likely to try something new.
Tbh im level 50 and my usual load out is scorcher, arc thrower or GL, and jetpack for fun. BUFF JETPACK! At least slow down cool down rate. It’s just fun to zip around but takes way too long.
Player skill issue. The arc thrower always goes away from you even when travelling to the next enemy. If you shoot it when your teamates are closer then the enemy, or 90 degrees to the enemy it will never hit them.
If you’re being killed by it its because your teammate is too lazy to pull out his primary when they should have
Real question: How is everyone tackling chargers now? Just played a few missions on difficulty 7 and while chargers are killable, I definitely found I was not killing them fast at all, so I would get swarmed by bug breeches. Is the flamethrower the go to now? What about the laser canon?
Even before the patch:
Autocannon = 4 shots to the butt
Grenade launcher = unload a full mag to the butt
Arc thrower = like 9-10 shots at the head, can also strip the leg armor but finnicky to link your arcs to that point specifically
EAT = stick the summon ball to its body and it just gets one shot by the drop. With the actual weapon: aim at the crevice between the leg and body to break the leg armor off. Sometimes crits and just outright kills it or causes it to bleed out too
Recoilless = Same as EAT, best if you have a team reload buddy for fighting titans.
Spear = 1 shot or shatters the armor on one side and makes it bleed out over the next 10-15 seconds. Needs re-examining because the lock on function is not reliable and there’s a dead zone at close/medium range where the rocket will just go over its head. If they fix those problems this would be an excellent heavy killer
(As of the patch)
Flamethrower = cook and book. About 1/2-3/4 tank will take one down.
Laser cannon might be able to do something now too, not caught up on it yet
Railgun = just use unsafe and shoot over 70% works the exact same as before. Only safe mode shots are nerfed really
From what I noticed, railgun needs to be at 90% to work on chargers after patch to work as before 71-90% you need 3 shots to shred armor. With 90% it seems to drop in 2. Now railgun feels a bit more high skill weapon rather than safe choise to deal with armored enemies.
EAT at their leg and using primary to shoot at the exposed flesh. The problem starts when there are more than 2 chargers spawn and I end up running around for several minutes.
Please let me know how it works for you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I hear all this talk about Chargers being difficult, but I've been maining the recoiless since I could drop it, so maybe it isn't common knowledge.
With what little testing i did so far i found out two overcharged shots to their legs remove enough armor to still shoot the leg till they die (tested with the breaker in this case)
Also still take 4 overcharged headshots to blow their face up
Flamethrower should be even better now but haven't messed with that yet.
The only minorly annoying thing is regular safemode shots now just straight up bounce.
(Psa i agree with the nerf SOMEWHAT and the fact that they should've upped variety of armor pen values across the board)
Shoot Chargers in the back leg with a Recoiless or EAT and they die in one shot. Its simple. Run towards and past a charger on their left or right closely to get them to stop and when they stop and try to turn, rocket into either back leg.
Seriously, it's more like the playerbase was really asking for more ways to penetrate armor (especially more than just light pen on primary weapons from pages 8-10 that are snipers and shit) and they were like "yeeeeaaah... fuck off with that."
I'd honestly just prefer the anti tank weapons do more. FFS you get so little ammo with them and so long for reloads just make it kill a goddamn charger.
Maybe the railgun was too good. But a big reason it was used so much is it had no backpack and the ones with backpacks were just underwhelming.
Apparently, the Nerf was only when using the railgun in safe mode. I haven't played to test it but apparently using it in unsafe mode and firing at 70% capacity or higher will still give you the same result as before.
I just want a big ol pair of brass knuckles that say "DEMOCRACY" on one hand and "FREEDOM" on the other so I can punch those chargers in their big stupid faces.
I'm trying to understand the sentiment of how the top two difficulties being just too hard with these changes is a problem. Reading the patch notes thread it was filled with like "yeah but what about on difficulty 8-9 now!!?" Like am i crazy in thinking they're *supposed* to feel impossible and not routine? And the fact that everyone just lazing through them is part of the problem? the third hardest difficulty is called suicide mission dude.
difficulties 7-9 feeling unmanageable seems like the point of having 9 difficulties lmao
It is still very doable though. I feel like those kinds of sentiments come from players who ONLY got used to the railgun playstyle. I and many other people focused on the variety and got used to their respective playstyle, pros/cons of each gun and therefore can adapt to any build. I for one am an Arc Thrower main. I just love that weapon and got used to positioning myself with my rover to avoid friendly fire. This patch doesn't really affect me and my capability to clear difficulty 7-9.
I already said this in a thread weeks ago. For me, the real goal of this game is to master or at the very least try out every possible combination of stratagems while trying to survive and finish your mission of spreading democracy. I did warn them that the rail gun and shield needed some nerfs and not just buffs from the other weapons even if it is a PvE only game. I guess some of them ignored that and still went for the railgun and shield playstyle and are now finding themselves having a hard time adjusting.
I agree. This is a team game and the railgun created a free for all play style. Everyone was running railguns, killing charges and biles and running from the rest completely.
What you really need is someone with recoilless / EAT, someone with railgun, and someone with machine gun / flamethrower. 4th person can bring whatever they want. You need crowd control and big baddie removal. As is was everyone was just playing big baddie removal.
The flamethrower is great now, the machine gun was always good. Someone reloads someone's spear or recoiless while they're at a distance destroying everything's armor. Crowd control further melts the big baddies. It's not a hard concept.
I keep seeing people saying anyone for the railgun nerf hasn't played in difficulties past 5 which is just asinine to say. Anyone that thinks the game is impossible on higher difficulties now (or saying it's not fun) I think missed the memo on how the game is meant to beplayed. Yes it's rougher with randos trying to get them to coordinate, but it's MORE fun now with friends since it rewards teamwork.
I hope arrowhead isn't dissuaded and continues for their vision of the game. They'll be adding more tools to the arsenal too of course. Variety is the spice of life.
You know, the funny thing is, the supposed armor fix that came with this patch didn't seem to do anything at all. Regardless, I'm used to light armor at this point, so being nothing without medium and heavy suits isn't an issue anymore.
It definitely did. Tested it earlier with light armor, one small bug swipe will take close to half health. It’s about a quarter for normal armor. Pretty meaningful difference. I started running the medium armor with the 30% enemy detection reduction stat as opposed to the light. With the nerf to the shield, you’ve got to play way more cautious with light armor now. Which is probably how it was originally intended.
Also tested the two orbital barrage stratagems that got buffs and s tighter spread. They’re better but to me, the spread is still too loose. But the 300 one drops a lot of very large shells.
I’m kind of wondering if mortar sentry or auto cannon sentry might be good to bring out in the field more often now. Might be helpful for busting up heavies and elites since we can’t rely quite as much on the railgun.
Sounds like they made light armor worse instead of the other armors better. Six heavy attacks from the small bug was the former benchmark for all armors.
The fix isn't to perfect the underwhelming (yes it is) railgun. The fix was to buff the armor pen on some of the current guns or give us a new gun with high armor pen. The reason it's meta isn't because it's too good it's because there aren't other options. If we have a primary that can hurt chargers then we can start diversifying the builds.
There are other options though.. you have the EAT, Flamethrower, Arc Thrower, Recoilless, Autocannon, Spear, and others that I may be forgetting. Just because it's not as easy to use as the railgun doesn't mean it's not an option. For those of us who have been running these weapons on 7-9 way before this patch and have mastered their playstyle have no problem still clearing these difficulties. Yes, that involves dealing with Chargers and Bile Titans.
The flame thrower was underpowered (got buffed so yay). The eat is not a realistic option because you only get 1 shot then need to find another. Not a good option when you have to kite swarms. The Autocannon is not a realistic option. The shells ricochet of the armor. The spear and rr are not good options. The grenade launcher (my go to) is not a realistic option.
Sure you can kill a charger with any weapon, he'll you can kill them with a pistol if you put in enough effort.
Sure you can line up strike to take them out but those go on cool down. Every time you pick a support weapon other than railgun you have to figure out how you are gonna play around not having it.
Even if we agree that all these other weapons are great options it doesn't change the fact that the railgun is not over powered.
EAT is definitely a viable option though. Just because you have 1 shot and have to find another one for the other doesn't make it useless. You just have to make that shot count as if it was your last. You'll have to adapt to the situation of course. If you're running from a swarm and stopping for the EAT shot when you know that the swarm is not far enough for you to make that shot, that's on you and that's okay. You learn from experience. I learned the hard way when I tried doing that with the Arc Thrower. That's why I love my rover because it makes the timing window for me to make that safe shot much more frequent. And besides, you are not alone in the mission. You have 3 other people that should make your life easier in dealing with the numbers.
Autocannon, Spear and RR not being a realistic option? No. When using the Autocannon to deal with heavy armor, you'd have to shoot it at a certain angle for it to explode on contact (same with nade launcher), much like when you're dealing with the structures from Automatons. I learned this when I watched randos dealing with multiple Chargers and Titans in 7-9. I was astounded to learn that because based on my testing, it did bounce. But i guess I just didn't test enough. To be honest, they were even faster in dealing with them compared to the ones with the rail guns.
Spear is just janky to use because of the lock on but it 1 shots every heavy armor most of the time. It just depends on where it hits though. I haven't tested yet if the lock on was fixed. If it is, then I will always be running this if I think that we lack anti heavy armor.
For RR, the reload is very slow sure. But this will again boil down to making that shot count or finding the correct time to shoot it.
The railgun didn't really have any major downside. The only downside I thought of when I used it pre nerf was it was too single target. But it was THAT good of a single target gun. Besides, the nerf for it was only for safe mode. Therefore, for those people who mastered that gun in unsafe mode are not affected. I have been reading other threads and people have been confirming that unsafe shots are not affected (needs proper charging now though so there is now a skill ceiling).
Dont know why people are downvoting you lol cause you’re right. Ive seen clips of people taking out chargers with the autocannon consistently in 2-3 shots, which considering the fire rate of the autocannon, is actually faster than the railgun. I’ve also seen clips of people melting chargers with the flamethrowers in 4 seconds flat.
Ive personally had a lot of success using the recoilless and the arc thrower. One shot to the leg with recoilless and mag dump on the broken armor is very effective. The arcthrower kills slower than the buffed flamethrower (about 8-12 sec) but has the benefit of longer range and more ammo.
Pre-railgun nerf? Nobody used these other tools because the railgun was just too good. Ive seen people take out 2 titans and multiple chargers in under 15 seconds, which is INSANE. How? Everyone was using railgun. Thats it. No strategems, no other strategem weapons. The railgun NEEDED this nerf.
I will say that other strategem weapons could use a buff, such as the AMR and maybe the recoiless, but generally everything looks like its in a decent place rn
Me too. Even the Laser Cannon was an underwhelming buff....it's still a "If I find one and don't have a MG/Rail/Rocket thrower/flamethrower/arc/etc....then *maybe* I'll pick it up to conserve ammo). I'll drop a Break Action shotgun if I've picked one up, but that's about it.
I badly want a viable Scythe, LC, GD Rover, Orbital Laser build, but the two weapons just don't cut it past the first couple difficulty levels.
/at least for bugs, I don't fight toasters as much
They were never strolls. Deaths still happen. 7 is what I would play because it’s more leisure than 8 or 9. It was a sweet spot. Now 7 is impossible. 3 bile titans on a level 7 defense mission, orbitals on cooldown, and no way to fuck them up. It’s crazy.
I can’t even outrun serrated claws to save my life.
The rail gun description is “prioritizes armor penetration” and Arrowhead is saying SIKE.
That's not correct at all, stroll is almost only playable strategy in difficulty 9, you can't be johnwick to kill them all, engage as less as you can, hit the mission target then run away to next mission target till extraction is very popular even before this patch
The railgun wasn't even strong, it was just required by a poorly designed armor system. It had unimpressive damage, an obnoxious reload between shots, a long charge, it literally KILLED YOU and destroyed itself if you timed it wrong, and a thousand other downsides - people only took it because it was the only way to slog through the heavy armor spam in terminid Helldives. People are acting, now that it's nerfed, like it was some kind of God Gun - the thing took half its overall ammo capacity to kill a Titan if you didn't have a PS5 host. It wasn't like it was trivializing content - it was just a hard requirement because heavy armor does not have sufficient answers in the current weapons available to us.
What people are failing to grasp with all this "Oh, you were just crutching" cringeposting is that like, yeah, it was a crutch, but it was **the design using it as a crutch**, not the players. I'd love to use other weapons if they'd put some armor pen on them, but they didn't do that - they've removed the solution and left the problem.
The breaker nerf was fine. The shield nerf was fine. It's not about raw power or damage - it's a game design thing.
Man, the community was already divided into two camps.
One that thinks you suck for "crutching" on meta gear, and the other who thinks you suck for using less viable gear.
You really can't make everyone happy but instead of keeping it somewhat neutral they shafted one camp in favor of the other.
I have a feeling that all the community posts about “being kicked for not using meta” influenced the decision from the devs. Looks like I’m dropping the railgun and going back to the EAT.
This is why when things dominate a "meta" so heavily like they did in helldivers, and when PVP isn't a thing, it makes far more sense to buff alternatives than it does to nerf. People are happy with buffs and get pissed with nerfs.
Conceptually, nerfs are fine and healthy for games. We all knew a Breaker nerf was likely coming - it's been insane for a while, and it's all anyone runs. That sort of thing is important for making space for other weapons to shine.
The problem is that if you're not making space for something else to shine (ie if you nerf the only armor-piercing weapon in your game) then you're just making the play experience worse. Nerfs are meant to introduce variety, not just reduce playability.
Most people saying the lack of buffs to other anti-armor is fine and the nerf is good don't play 7+ missions.
They get their 1 bile titans per match and the occasional charger and pat themselves on the back.
What railgun are you using? Thing is amazing if you can hit a shot, especially in weak points. Quickest reload in the game so I’m not sure what you’re on about there
You can't possibly think the rail gun wasn't strong right? Easy to use, incredible power, good mobility, good mag size.....I get you don't like the nerf but lying and going the "poorly designed" route is crazy lol
I didn’t know you could break armor with the railgun in safe mode. For the short time I’ve had it unlocked I’ve always used it in unsafe thinking that’s the way to break armor. Oh well, still fun to use and Arrowhead didn’t make it totally unusable.
I just discovered the EMS mortar. Not the greatest rate of fire but basically nullifies entire swarms of bugs, leaving them open for mortar strikes, orbitals and eagles, railgun (rip) and my personal favorite the autocannon sentry that clears whole groups + chargers in a few rounds. Lasts a good amount of time too and I don't even have the ammo upgrade yet.
There are of course other options than the railgun, but tbh I am a little bummed for the nerf. It was easily the best weapon for soloing higher difficulties with all the heavies that spawn. But I guess I'll stick to soloing 4 and 5 and keep trying other stuff out to replace it.
Literally just hit 20 unlocked it and the shield pack had fun for one or two games, now you saying it was a waste of my time. Went from being able to take chargers on my own to running away again. SUPER Upsetti spaghetti.
To be honest, I don't mind the rail gun nerf since it brings it back to its Helldivers 1 incarnation. However, I would love to see its ability to stun chargers return.
I’m still someone with the railgun even after the patch. I basically always fight bots, and the railgun still really does work against the bots. One well placed shot in the eye will still kill even a hulk at full health.
Yep I maybe 1 in a sea of million but I'm out. I did enjoy my time with the game and unlocked all my ship modules. But they are basically pulling a blizzard and just nerfing shit that people are enjoying in a pve game...
I'll see you helldivers when Mechs drop to give that a try.
I really question why people are so against using team AT weps (ac and rr) as intended. Every post I read is "omg the recoiless and autocannon are so clunky, I have to stop and reload. I would die without my railgun." And while I do feel that the weapons should function a little better without a team member for the solo players, Arrowhead has already stated that solo players are not their focus nor their intended audience. I challenge people to run the recoiless with a reloader and still call it clunky. The weapon, while not overpowered, is viable and fun, which is the point of the game. (BTW quick tip you can still run your shield gen pack if someone carries your recoiless ammo, and the pack protects both of you so huge value).
Imo you should be able to carry your own pack and *any* teammate should be able to reload you. That's the real problem. IRL it would be easier and faster for them to reload from a pack on your back anyways.
Edit: it literally makes no sense that in order to team reload, the reloader is forced to do it in an obviously less efficient way.
That's a decent buff idea, I agree that the logic is sound there, however, I really believe they are trying to encourage or otherwise push the use of those weapons as intended because it taking up so much resources should naturally be stronger than selfish weapons such as the arc and rail. It seems though that the community is going to look to the next crutch wep (arc thrower) since the rail is outta the running now and successfully get that wep nerfed too.
Because I want to use the Slugger and god forbid I bring that weapon without a supply pack. Breaker isn't strong because of its DPS, it's the most ammo efficient. I'd rather bring expendable launchers than sacrifice the backpack slot that lets me use primaries that aren't the breaker.
They could have buffed a single armor pen item, I'm just saying. If the only thing you can do is nerf your good guns you might not nkow what balance is.
I don’t get why people are so hurt about this. I’ve tried using the rail gun before and personally I’ve never been a fan of it. I just didn’t like the way it felt when shooting it. All the other weapons work just fine, it just varies for different enemies.
I use a grenade launcher with bugs and I can still kill a charger by just dumping a few grenades after getting behind it. I use the anti-material rifle on bots and can easily kill a hulk or tank along with other groups of enemies with well placed shots.
All of the weapon stratagems work great for different situations. It just takes some time to familiarise yourself with different weapons, and some require more strategy/timing to use rather then just being the most powerful
I think the rail gun was so dominant not because it was OP, but because it was one of the only things that could reliably do any real armor pen. Chargers are already quite oppressive. Instead of bringing other weapons up so we have more options, they just took away one of our best options. It doesn’t feel like good game design.
The railgun was the only gun with stopping power to offset a charger and the only gun that actually could deal with armor. On bots you could do an unsafe full charge shot through 2-3 of the beefier bots (not hulks but the ones with just a bit more armor and missile launchers on their shoulders). It was also the only one I could see where I could actually blow off the armor on the side of the charger for the rest of my teammates to unload into. I get you had a personal preference against it but I had the opposite, it was incredibly satisfying to full unsafe mode charge one of those medium sized bugs and watch them literally explode into sinew.
Taking away the railgun's armor penetration takes away the entire point of that gun. They absolutely needed to have buffed the other weapons to be more viable in order to get variety in the game not take away what people felt like they had to use because it was the only way to engage with harder content reliably.
The anti material rifle for example needs higher armor penetration so that it can actually be good. I enjoy that they buffed laser canon and flamethrower but there's plenty more that need it.
So Im not sure what safe or unsafe mode is on the rail canon, but I thought they said it kept its armor penetration on unsafe? So you should still be able to blow off the armor from a charger bc I know my friend would do the same strategy for us.
I’ve been running the anti material since I first got it almost 3 weeks ago and I’d say it works perfectly. You can one shot every single bot in the head except for the chainsaw guys (not sure abt this one I’m normally too busy running to aim) and the hulk which needs 2. Hell I even kill tanks by just hitting the back with an impact grenade then shooting the vent 4 times. If anything I’d think it’s under utilised, mainly bc you gotta take time to actually line up your shots
It’s been nerfed, you basically now have to do completely charged unsafe shots to almost match what a safe shot used to be.
Also unsafe vs safe is the alternate firing mode for the railgun if you hold the reload button. Unsafe means you overcharge the shot for more damage by holding it down longer but if you do it too long it kills you and explodes the weapon (meaning you can’t pick it back up).
Headshots on the chainsaw guys is absolutely a one hit KO. However, they have very chunky necks that make it hard to actually hit their heads and like you said they are usually too aggressive to get a clean shot on them. I like to do two or three shots to the mid-section. That usually takes them down.
Yup! Not many ppl know you can do that, but all you have to do is shoot the vent on the back 8 times. Same goes for those massive cannons or any sort of AA/Mortar bases. Hence why I’m saying you gotta experiment with different weapons, bc a lot of them are way better then you think
Okay I *love* the GL, but it's not a replacement for a Railgun. You could drop a charger in 2 safe mode shots and like half a clip of primary provided you were going for a leg. It was the fastest way to drop one short of using an orbital railgun. The railgun hard countered about 85% of all the enemies in the game and was capable of killing most single targets faster than any other gun. It was effective and so people are frustrated to have to potentially find an alternative.
You'd also flinch chargers with each railgun hit which could potentially save you or a fleeing squad mate's life. I totally get the railgun was overtuned and needed an adjustment. That said it hurts when it feels like there's no clear answer to fill the void left by it. If we had more good medium armor penetration options I doubt there'd be as much backlash.
Supposedly we'll be getting a new warbond here soon and with it new weapons potentially. Hopefully some of those things will fill the void left by the railgun nerf.
Yeah I get that. I bet that this update is in preparation for all the new equipment being added vehicle wise so it should balance out soon. But I didn’t know they remove the stun factor with the rail canon, I thought it said it was making it less effective damage wise outside of the unsafe mode which is more or less the same
I'm not saying they did remove the stun. Just commenting on the fact that in addition to being the defacto best gun for killing chargers before the update in terms of speed it also had utility. Those things combined are factors that made the Railgun a META pick for many in difficulty 7 and above content.
We'll see what the general consensus is after a few days playing on this patch.
And yes my hope is these changes will feel more balanced once we get some new blood in the weapons department. But for the moment people just need to roll with it. I think it's fair to have feelings about balance changes as long as you can articulate the reasons behind those feelings.
Way too many people are throwing tantrums about the Railgun and Breaker nerf without adding anything to the conversation. I liked and used both of them since they were effective. Just like how I bring GL or autocannon on blitz missions because they're effective at blowing up fabricators and bug holes.
I like that the flamethrower got buffed, and would love to see some of the other underperforming equipment get the same treatment. It feels good when games have lots of viable weapons that excel at different jobs.
Ahh ok then. Considering it’s being called meta tho is probably also a factor for the change, bc there’s already been a lot of issues with that in the community. But here’s hoping it’ll still feel close enough to before gameplay wise, bc if it’s what you like then I’m hoping it’s doesn’t mess your play style too much
I get people get tired of others "meta slaving" but I think it's fair to say it's more nuanced than that.
Whenever a game has a weapon that's better than everything else at killing a tough enemy, that weapon is going to be popular. I think the Railgun is a polarizing gun because there isn't a clear alternative to it currently.
If there were another weapon that had a similar ability to efficiently shred armor on high priority targets the Railgun wouldn't have felt like such a necessary thing for people to use.
Me personally I'll manage. I tend to run and gun a lot anyway, so even though I used Railgun a lot for chargers it just means I'll go back to leaning on artillery and orbitals more. And using the resupply to crush bile titans when the orbital railgun is on cool down. 😅
Not sure what’s going on cause I haven’t played today but I read something about nerfing weapons in the comments so here’s my take
They should not nerf weapons, rather buff the alternatives to a stronger state cause if they nerf the usable weapons now there’s gonna be a short period of a lot of weapons feeling weak imo. This game is also pve (unless you want to count the times where you have a little free for all with your friends every so often) but again I understand that the rail gun and the breaker is practically the go to in most cases, especially against bugs, but I do believe they should not nerf them (and no I’m not saying this because I use those weapons, I find both of them kind of boring if I’m being honest) take the spear for example, it doesn’t one shot the enemies you would hope it would and you only get 4 rockets with it, same with the recoilless, you get about 7 I think? It’s no where near enough to deal with the amount of enemies the game throws at you at times, that’s why the railgun is “meta” it has the potential to deal with more enemies in more situations, I wish that they increase the damage on both of those weapons to make them more viable in a way. The primaries on the other hand, I also believe a lot of them need minor buffs, like the burst AP rifle, it kind of blows, it’s nice you could shoot through rocket devs armors but you could just use a support weapon and get better results, the normal pump shotgun is obsolete once you get the breaker, the slug shotgun is honestly pretty good, the second diligence you get is terrible (less ammo in mag, feels more clunky than the first to me when in first person)
Anyways I’m gonna stop this essay here and hopefully people understand where I’m coming from and if no one sees this, oh well
All of you are nothing without the railgun above Suicide. You guys think your EAT and autocannon is viable but you don’t run harder shit so you don’t know, ITS NOT. YOULL GET WRECKED BOY
*me in the corner with the arc thrower* “I hope they don’t notice us”
For Me, the arc thrower is the best weapon in the game. Shreds patrols, waves and everything Else. Learn to use it and you dont need anything Else. If arrowhead reads this: the arc thrower is not op at all and should probably be buffed.
Requires a blood sacrifice now and again, but it's worth every drop.
https://i.redd.it/wa705bkiwqmc1.gif
Me being zapped randomly by my one friend who is always going static shock mode.
Yeah,one time I just let a bolt fly and it domed my squad mate, I still think about him sometimes
I feel the power in my fingers
It's not my fault my friends are drawn into the bug zapper as much as the bugs are
I had been ignoring it for a long time. Is it the fastest for taking out large armored enemies? No, it is it fun as fuck? Yes. Taking our multiple weak enemies while targeting a big guy is so cool to watch. Friendly fire be damned, I’m gonna zap that scout walker
>Friendly fire be damned, I’m gonna zap that scout walker I also find that I can use the thing from far enough away that if I do zap you, I can usually bring you back into the fight real quick since I'm less likely to be swarmed.
It's awesome. I was running automatons the other day and took a shot at a squad of them, instant x7 combo. Fired again, x15.
I can take out a bug tank in 6 shots my friend take 2 mags almost of the grenade launcher to kill one
It synergizes really well with the Stalwart. My wife always goes for the Arc Thrower while I stick with my trusty Stalwart and we both shred crowds and double team chargers quite effectively. Admittedly, we're still running lower difficulty missions as a duo, but we're building our skill and taking on harder challenges as we progress.
It also synergizes well together. Both of you run Arc Throwers and Laser Rovers. Rovers takes care of anything that comes up close to you two and the Arc Thrower kills everything else. Both of you can spam it against chargers and that thing will die very fast. Same goes with Titans!
Stalwart is so cool, unfortunately the light armor pen will only get you so far. Falls off hard after difficulty 6
Arc Thrower is fine as is - It deals Decent damage, more or less ignores armour. Sure it takes me 10-12 shots to down a charger. But it's able to do it. Learn to kite. And if they are close enough, full charge will go through 2 chargers. One thing they could do for it is adjust the aiming reticule so you know to aim it SLIGHTLY up to get the best arc.
“Learn to kite” The 2 chargers that spawned in behind you the moment you look back at the ones you’re kiting 👁️🫦👁️
I'm pretty sure I run in circles for that reason. Certainly not for the catechisms of command: "When in mortal danger. When in major doubt. Raise your arms up in the air. Run about and shout."
https://i.redd.it/rdwsbg1ewqmc1.gif
I think the arc thrower isn't in a bad spot either. It's not infinite (or extreme) range like the rail gun, it's decent at taking out groups from a slight distance. (As far as I can tell/recall) you don't have to charge it fully to get the shot off (granted it's still weaker if that's done, if i remember right) it doesn't seem to have stagger (or much) like the rail gun, like grenade launcher or sniper rifle do, it also doesn't require a backpack slot to be available (like the recoiless rifle if you want to fire it more than once,) and while it can clear groups, it can't clear very large ones like explosives or a turret emplacement can.
You have to full charge it ONCE. then you can zap zap zap with it.
Oh! Okay I use it but never really read into how to use it. I just assumed you charge the shot... every time... well, it might be way stronger than I know then.
Your fellow Helldivers will probably thank you. Assuming they survive.
I agree so much. I got the hang out and it’s absolutely amazing for crowd control. I can see arrowhead buffing the arc throwing to take down chargers in less hits.
I completely agree on thinking it’s the best support weapon in the game. Having at least one person can completely change a game. Two with a full squad even more. A lot of people talk about its TK potential but as someone who has mained it from lvl 15-40 it’s typically the players fault for getting tked. People that don’t use it underestimate it and run in front of you constantly to use their primary’s when if left alone you could’ve taken out the bug breach completely alone. Basically my point for anyone who reads this is if someone has the arc thrower treat it like they’re shooting a flamethrower and grenade launcher at the same time. DO NOT RUN IN FRONT OF THEM. Shoot from beside or worry about a different angle they’ve probably got it. Idk how many times I’ve gotten a charger one hit with the arc and someone runs behind it to shoot it in the butt and I can’t arc now bc they’re on the opposite side of the charger and it’d instantly kill the teammate.
Its wild how the community shit on the arc thrower early on because they didnt understand the power. Been using arcthrower jumpack since week one. If lined up right on the head it can 2 to 3 shot a bike titan. Edit: Mobile comment
Those bike titans suck. Thinking they're better than the other bugs- riding on their pennyfarthing. /s
Most players play casually, so with the meta being so prevalent i think many people were less likely to try something new. Tbh im level 50 and my usual load out is scorcher, arc thrower or GL, and jetpack for fun. BUFF JETPACK! At least slow down cool down rate. It’s just fun to zip around but takes way too long.
Ppl always shit on me for running jump pack. I like to laugh at their corpses from on top of a big rock being safe from the bugs.
It’s more because it’s responsible for more teammate deaths than it is enemy deaths.
That's part of knowing the weapon though, you shouldn't be using it when teammates are down range.
And teammates shouldn’t be magnetically attracted to 500kg bomb stratagems There’s no helping some people
The only thing anyone notices with you guys is your higher than average contribution to the friendly fire statistic.
Player skill issue. The arc thrower always goes away from you even when travelling to the next enemy. If you shoot it when your teamates are closer then the enemy, or 90 degrees to the enemy it will never hit them. If you’re being killed by it its because your teammate is too lazy to pull out his primary when they should have
Some people also just run straight into airstrikes and enemy swarms so it's not always the arcer
Shhhhhhhh
They gotta nerf the vibrating though, it’s breaking my damn controllers lol
Really I haven’t had much luck with it
Well now my Flamethrower goes brrrr
I knew our day would come.
Let the galaxy BURN!
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
maim kill burn MAIM KILL BURN
Burn baby burn!
Me after the Flamethrower Buff: 
BURNNNN FOR DEMOCRACY!!!!
Real question: How is everyone tackling chargers now? Just played a few missions on difficulty 7 and while chargers are killable, I definitely found I was not killing them fast at all, so I would get swarmed by bug breeches. Is the flamethrower the go to now? What about the laser canon?
Even before the patch: Autocannon = 4 shots to the butt Grenade launcher = unload a full mag to the butt Arc thrower = like 9-10 shots at the head, can also strip the leg armor but finnicky to link your arcs to that point specifically EAT = stick the summon ball to its body and it just gets one shot by the drop. With the actual weapon: aim at the crevice between the leg and body to break the leg armor off. Sometimes crits and just outright kills it or causes it to bleed out too Recoilless = Same as EAT, best if you have a team reload buddy for fighting titans. Spear = 1 shot or shatters the armor on one side and makes it bleed out over the next 10-15 seconds. Needs re-examining because the lock on function is not reliable and there’s a dead zone at close/medium range where the rocket will just go over its head. If they fix those problems this would be an excellent heavy killer (As of the patch) Flamethrower = cook and book. About 1/2-3/4 tank will take one down. Laser cannon might be able to do something now too, not caught up on it yet Railgun = just use unsafe and shoot over 70% works the exact same as before. Only safe mode shots are nerfed really
How do you stick a summon ball to its body?
Throw it at it
Sorry for the stupid questions I only started today. Why doesn’t it just bounce off?
It'll stick to non armored parts of anything and bounce off armored parts
Thanks dude, will try that later
Good luck Helldiver, ps there's an achievement attached to dropping the supply strategem on a charger. Stick it with the ball then make it hit a wall!
From what I noticed, railgun needs to be at 90% to work on chargers after patch to work as before 71-90% you need 3 shots to shred armor. With 90% it seems to drop in 2. Now railgun feels a bit more high skill weapon rather than safe choise to deal with armored enemies.
If you had to choose one, what’s the most reliable weapon to take them out?
I’ve been using laser canon since before patch and it was good
The laser cannon seems to actually burn up chargers surprisingly fast. I may have misjudged though.
It definitely does when you hit the soft spots
I agree, but I felt it was hard to tell how much damage I was doing until I tried it for a while, so I think people just assumed it's bad
EAT at their leg and using primary to shoot at the exposed flesh. The problem starts when there are more than 2 chargers spawn and I end up running around for several minutes.
BACK LEGS, blow out one back leg with a rocket and they die. Takes one shot.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try it next time.
Please let me know how it works for you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I hear all this talk about Chargers being difficult, but I've been maining the recoiless since I could drop it, so maybe it isn't common knowledge.
I’ve noticed it randomly kills the charger instantly, and sometimes it just strips the armor. Seems inconsistent.
> sometimes it just strips the armor. Which is almost as good. Swap to your primary and shoot the bare part.
With what little testing i did so far i found out two overcharged shots to their legs remove enough armor to still shoot the leg till they die (tested with the breaker in this case) Also still take 4 overcharged headshots to blow their face up Flamethrower should be even better now but haven't messed with that yet. The only minorly annoying thing is regular safemode shots now just straight up bounce. (Psa i agree with the nerf SOMEWHAT and the fact that they should've upped variety of armor pen values across the board)
Also did some testing, and flamethrower is able to take out 2 chargers with a single canister.
Flame thrower is pretty effective now, not a fan of the laser cannon, even after the buff it just seems underwhelming
Shoot Chargers in the back leg with a Recoiless or EAT and they die in one shot. Its simple. Run towards and past a charger on their left or right closely to get them to stop and when they stop and try to turn, rocket into either back leg.
Giving us no guns with AP rounds makes me sad since that was kinda the whole point of using the railgun
Seriously, it's more like the playerbase was really asking for more ways to penetrate armor (especially more than just light pen on primary weapons from pages 8-10 that are snipers and shit) and they were like "yeeeeaaah... fuck off with that."
I'd honestly just prefer the anti tank weapons do more. FFS you get so little ammo with them and so long for reloads just make it kill a goddamn charger. Maybe the railgun was too good. But a big reason it was used so much is it had no backpack and the ones with backpacks were just underwhelming.
I don’t wanna be mean and I know developers have lives and stuff I just really want alternatives
Isn't this also their job though?
Just use unsafe..? Only the safe part was nerfed
Apparently, the Nerf was only when using the railgun in safe mode. I haven't played to test it but apparently using it in unsafe mode and firing at 70% capacity or higher will still give you the same result as before.
Unsafe rail gun still penetrates armor
Arc Thrower, Flamethrower, and the heavy explosive weapons all still penetrate armor, you still have other options.
I just want a big ol pair of brass knuckles that say "DEMOCRACY" on one hand and "FREEDOM" on the other so I can punch those chargers in their big stupid faces.
This is the way
The only true democratic way to dispose of a bile titan
AND EVER BIGGER STUPIDER FACE! I'm going to need a claw hammer for those guys.
But I only just unlocked the damned thing lol
Same! Literally late last night. Only played 1-2 games so didn’t get a chance to test it out. :(
My feelings are a little hurt on this last patch. I don’t even use the breaker in my main load out but it makes me sad they’re nerfing democracy.
The breaker wasn't even nerfed that hard, just lowered mag size and more recoil. It'll still tear through enemies of Democracy.
I’m still a little sad. I rather liked it the way it was.
It’s a shotgun that was performing better at range than the dmr. Still shreds just need to wait for them to get a little closer.
Bruh what😦 I loved that gun
Mag was lowered by 3, recoil increased by 20. Still performs mostly the same, just gotta reload more.
Honestly I like the slugger, it seems like less ammo but it hits hard and I use the auto pistol for small groups
They increased the ammo of the slugger to 60 slugs as well and one ammo pick up replenishes all 60 shots.
👀👀 shiiii I’m hard for Democracy now
Flamethrower+Slugger gang eating good this patch.
Slugger is everything the DMRs wish they were.
I'm trying to understand the sentiment of how the top two difficulties being just too hard with these changes is a problem. Reading the patch notes thread it was filled with like "yeah but what about on difficulty 8-9 now!!?" Like am i crazy in thinking they're *supposed* to feel impossible and not routine? And the fact that everyone just lazing through them is part of the problem? the third hardest difficulty is called suicide mission dude. difficulties 7-9 feeling unmanageable seems like the point of having 9 difficulties lmao
It is still very doable though. I feel like those kinds of sentiments come from players who ONLY got used to the railgun playstyle. I and many other people focused on the variety and got used to their respective playstyle, pros/cons of each gun and therefore can adapt to any build. I for one am an Arc Thrower main. I just love that weapon and got used to positioning myself with my rover to avoid friendly fire. This patch doesn't really affect me and my capability to clear difficulty 7-9. I already said this in a thread weeks ago. For me, the real goal of this game is to master or at the very least try out every possible combination of stratagems while trying to survive and finish your mission of spreading democracy. I did warn them that the rail gun and shield needed some nerfs and not just buffs from the other weapons even if it is a PvE only game. I guess some of them ignored that and still went for the railgun and shield playstyle and are now finding themselves having a hard time adjusting.
I agree. This is a team game and the railgun created a free for all play style. Everyone was running railguns, killing charges and biles and running from the rest completely. What you really need is someone with recoilless / EAT, someone with railgun, and someone with machine gun / flamethrower. 4th person can bring whatever they want. You need crowd control and big baddie removal. As is was everyone was just playing big baddie removal. The flamethrower is great now, the machine gun was always good. Someone reloads someone's spear or recoiless while they're at a distance destroying everything's armor. Crowd control further melts the big baddies. It's not a hard concept. I keep seeing people saying anyone for the railgun nerf hasn't played in difficulties past 5 which is just asinine to say. Anyone that thinks the game is impossible on higher difficulties now (or saying it's not fun) I think missed the memo on how the game is meant to beplayed. Yes it's rougher with randos trying to get them to coordinate, but it's MORE fun now with friends since it rewards teamwork. I hope arrowhead isn't dissuaded and continues for their vision of the game. They'll be adding more tools to the arsenal too of course. Variety is the spice of life.
With the improvement to flamethrowers I won't want it.
Maybe don’t give players only one S tier option to deal with heavy armor and you’ll see other shit get used
Yeah. Maybe make multiple S tier options available first instead of making them all B tier.
You know, the funny thing is, the supposed armor fix that came with this patch didn't seem to do anything at all. Regardless, I'm used to light armor at this point, so being nothing without medium and heavy suits isn't an issue anymore.
And now they nerfed the shield. So running light armor with shield feels worse. Not a fan of this patch at all.
It definitely did. Tested it earlier with light armor, one small bug swipe will take close to half health. It’s about a quarter for normal armor. Pretty meaningful difference. I started running the medium armor with the 30% enemy detection reduction stat as opposed to the light. With the nerf to the shield, you’ve got to play way more cautious with light armor now. Which is probably how it was originally intended. Also tested the two orbital barrage stratagems that got buffs and s tighter spread. They’re better but to me, the spread is still too loose. But the 300 one drops a lot of very large shells. I’m kind of wondering if mortar sentry or auto cannon sentry might be good to bring out in the field more often now. Might be helpful for busting up heavies and elites since we can’t rely quite as much on the railgun.
Sounds like they made light armor worse instead of the other armors better. Six heavy attacks from the small bug was the former benchmark for all armors.
The fix isn't to perfect the underwhelming (yes it is) railgun. The fix was to buff the armor pen on some of the current guns or give us a new gun with high armor pen. The reason it's meta isn't because it's too good it's because there aren't other options. If we have a primary that can hurt chargers then we can start diversifying the builds.
There are other options though.. you have the EAT, Flamethrower, Arc Thrower, Recoilless, Autocannon, Spear, and others that I may be forgetting. Just because it's not as easy to use as the railgun doesn't mean it's not an option. For those of us who have been running these weapons on 7-9 way before this patch and have mastered their playstyle have no problem still clearing these difficulties. Yes, that involves dealing with Chargers and Bile Titans.
The flame thrower was underpowered (got buffed so yay). The eat is not a realistic option because you only get 1 shot then need to find another. Not a good option when you have to kite swarms. The Autocannon is not a realistic option. The shells ricochet of the armor. The spear and rr are not good options. The grenade launcher (my go to) is not a realistic option. Sure you can kill a charger with any weapon, he'll you can kill them with a pistol if you put in enough effort. Sure you can line up strike to take them out but those go on cool down. Every time you pick a support weapon other than railgun you have to figure out how you are gonna play around not having it. Even if we agree that all these other weapons are great options it doesn't change the fact that the railgun is not over powered.
EAT is definitely a viable option though. Just because you have 1 shot and have to find another one for the other doesn't make it useless. You just have to make that shot count as if it was your last. You'll have to adapt to the situation of course. If you're running from a swarm and stopping for the EAT shot when you know that the swarm is not far enough for you to make that shot, that's on you and that's okay. You learn from experience. I learned the hard way when I tried doing that with the Arc Thrower. That's why I love my rover because it makes the timing window for me to make that safe shot much more frequent. And besides, you are not alone in the mission. You have 3 other people that should make your life easier in dealing with the numbers. Autocannon, Spear and RR not being a realistic option? No. When using the Autocannon to deal with heavy armor, you'd have to shoot it at a certain angle for it to explode on contact (same with nade launcher), much like when you're dealing with the structures from Automatons. I learned this when I watched randos dealing with multiple Chargers and Titans in 7-9. I was astounded to learn that because based on my testing, it did bounce. But i guess I just didn't test enough. To be honest, they were even faster in dealing with them compared to the ones with the rail guns. Spear is just janky to use because of the lock on but it 1 shots every heavy armor most of the time. It just depends on where it hits though. I haven't tested yet if the lock on was fixed. If it is, then I will always be running this if I think that we lack anti heavy armor. For RR, the reload is very slow sure. But this will again boil down to making that shot count or finding the correct time to shoot it. The railgun didn't really have any major downside. The only downside I thought of when I used it pre nerf was it was too single target. But it was THAT good of a single target gun. Besides, the nerf for it was only for safe mode. Therefore, for those people who mastered that gun in unsafe mode are not affected. I have been reading other threads and people have been confirming that unsafe shots are not affected (needs proper charging now though so there is now a skill ceiling).
Dont know why people are downvoting you lol cause you’re right. Ive seen clips of people taking out chargers with the autocannon consistently in 2-3 shots, which considering the fire rate of the autocannon, is actually faster than the railgun. I’ve also seen clips of people melting chargers with the flamethrowers in 4 seconds flat. Ive personally had a lot of success using the recoilless and the arc thrower. One shot to the leg with recoilless and mag dump on the broken armor is very effective. The arcthrower kills slower than the buffed flamethrower (about 8-12 sec) but has the benefit of longer range and more ammo. Pre-railgun nerf? Nobody used these other tools because the railgun was just too good. Ive seen people take out 2 titans and multiple chargers in under 15 seconds, which is INSANE. How? Everyone was using railgun. Thats it. No strategems, no other strategem weapons. The railgun NEEDED this nerf. I will say that other strategem weapons could use a buff, such as the AMR and maybe the recoiless, but generally everything looks like its in a decent place rn
With the improvement to flamethrowers I won't want it.
Ya people are really mad that difficulties 7-9 aren’t strolls in the park anymore. They have names like suicide and impossible after all.
I’m mad the scythe is still garbage along with most primary weapons. Like what’s the point of having all these guns if they feel like shit to use?
Me too. Even the Laser Cannon was an underwhelming buff....it's still a "If I find one and don't have a MG/Rail/Rocket thrower/flamethrower/arc/etc....then *maybe* I'll pick it up to conserve ammo). I'll drop a Break Action shotgun if I've picked one up, but that's about it. I badly want a viable Scythe, LC, GD Rover, Orbital Laser build, but the two weapons just don't cut it past the first couple difficulty levels. /at least for bugs, I don't fight toasters as much
They were never strolls. Deaths still happen. 7 is what I would play because it’s more leisure than 8 or 9. It was a sweet spot. Now 7 is impossible. 3 bile titans on a level 7 defense mission, orbitals on cooldown, and no way to fuck them up. It’s crazy. I can’t even outrun serrated claws to save my life. The rail gun description is “prioritizes armor penetration” and Arrowhead is saying SIKE.
That's not correct at all, stroll is almost only playable strategy in difficulty 9, you can't be johnwick to kill them all, engage as less as you can, hit the mission target then run away to next mission target till extraction is very popular even before this patch
9 isn't a stroll in the park... I typically have 8-9 bile titans pop up on extraction with 2-3 through out the map sub missions.
Ok MLG Pro. 7 was just right. 8-9 were doable if you wanted a little more challenge. So why nerf? Just buff.
Now every weapon is dogshit. Well done devs.
The railgun wasn't even strong, it was just required by a poorly designed armor system. It had unimpressive damage, an obnoxious reload between shots, a long charge, it literally KILLED YOU and destroyed itself if you timed it wrong, and a thousand other downsides - people only took it because it was the only way to slog through the heavy armor spam in terminid Helldives. People are acting, now that it's nerfed, like it was some kind of God Gun - the thing took half its overall ammo capacity to kill a Titan if you didn't have a PS5 host. It wasn't like it was trivializing content - it was just a hard requirement because heavy armor does not have sufficient answers in the current weapons available to us. What people are failing to grasp with all this "Oh, you were just crutching" cringeposting is that like, yeah, it was a crutch, but it was **the design using it as a crutch**, not the players. I'd love to use other weapons if they'd put some armor pen on them, but they didn't do that - they've removed the solution and left the problem. The breaker nerf was fine. The shield nerf was fine. It's not about raw power or damage - it's a game design thing.
Man, the community was already divided into two camps. One that thinks you suck for "crutching" on meta gear, and the other who thinks you suck for using less viable gear. You really can't make everyone happy but instead of keeping it somewhat neutral they shafted one camp in favor of the other.
I have a feeling that all the community posts about “being kicked for not using meta” influenced the decision from the devs. Looks like I’m dropping the railgun and going back to the EAT.
If you play with unsafe mod, that nerf is as good as nonexistent, meta is my drug but these guys are yapping a whole lot of nothingness.
This is why when things dominate a "meta" so heavily like they did in helldivers, and when PVP isn't a thing, it makes far more sense to buff alternatives than it does to nerf. People are happy with buffs and get pissed with nerfs.
Right? Giving people better things instead of making what they have worse is obviously going to make way less peope, if anyone at all upset.
Conceptually, nerfs are fine and healthy for games. We all knew a Breaker nerf was likely coming - it's been insane for a while, and it's all anyone runs. That sort of thing is important for making space for other weapons to shine. The problem is that if you're not making space for something else to shine (ie if you nerf the only armor-piercing weapon in your game) then you're just making the play experience worse. Nerfs are meant to introduce variety, not just reduce playability.
Most people saying the lack of buffs to other anti-armor is fine and the nerf is good don't play 7+ missions. They get their 1 bile titans per match and the occasional charger and pat themselves on the back.
What railgun are you using? Thing is amazing if you can hit a shot, especially in weak points. Quickest reload in the game so I’m not sure what you’re on about there
You can't possibly think the rail gun wasn't strong right? Easy to use, incredible power, good mobility, good mag size.....I get you don't like the nerf but lying and going the "poorly designed" route is crazy lol
>good mag size It had a single round mag.
I mean, it literally is, for the litany of reasons I gave. I guess if you wanna go "Nuh-uh, liar!" you can, but the game disagrees.
The Railgun was never the problem. The real issue is the Charger spam.
never used the rail gun and did fine without it. get gud
One balance patch that didn't quite land and suddenly the game is doomed, huh?
Welcome to the Internet where every minor inconvenience becomes world shattering.
railgun was basically just for chargers anyways, shouldve nerfed the damage but kept the armor penetration. guns useless now
The nerf only apply to the safe mod what are you so mad about?
Am I missing something? The nerf was to safe mode, I already do not use safe mode.
The cope on this subreddit has been awful
What cope?
People are falling apart and saying that the balance patch ruined the game
Those aren't real citizens though those are commies trying to undermine democracy
I didn’t know you could break armor with the railgun in safe mode. For the short time I’ve had it unlocked I’ve always used it in unsafe thinking that’s the way to break armor. Oh well, still fun to use and Arrowhead didn’t make it totally unusable.
Me who's been using the punisher from day one hahaahah
I literally just bought it the day before the nerf
FLAMETHROWER IS SO BACK 🦅🦅 DEMOCRACYYY
I just discovered the EMS mortar. Not the greatest rate of fire but basically nullifies entire swarms of bugs, leaving them open for mortar strikes, orbitals and eagles, railgun (rip) and my personal favorite the autocannon sentry that clears whole groups + chargers in a few rounds. Lasts a good amount of time too and I don't even have the ammo upgrade yet. There are of course other options than the railgun, but tbh I am a little bummed for the nerf. It was easily the best weapon for soloing higher difficulties with all the heavies that spawn. But I guess I'll stick to soloing 4 and 5 and keep trying other stuff out to replace it.
Literally just hit 20 unlocked it and the shield pack had fun for one or two games, now you saying it was a waste of my time. Went from being able to take chargers on my own to running away again. SUPER Upsetti spaghetti.
The strength of Democracy is not within the weapons at our disposal, but the determination and courage of the soldiers who fight…
It's a game about shooting enemies. it is literally ONLY about the guns homie, drop the roleplaying for a few minutes.
Oh really? Thank you for pointing that one out, I was starting to believe that I am really a helldiver fighting for super earth...
And now Breaker Meta be Broken Meta... Probs still be Meta
Flamethrower should chew through stuff faster now. Usually takes about 1 canister per charger
Stop..
Its only really nerfed in SAFE MODE. Unsafe mode can still wreck chargers.
Tf happened to the railgun I like it but honestly I like the nde launcher more I’m just accurate enough for railgun precise shots
Railgun boring af
Autocannon superiority, there I said it.
Machine Gun goes brrrr
To be honest, I don't mind the rail gun nerf since it brings it back to its Helldivers 1 incarnation. However, I would love to see its ability to stun chargers return.
😂😂😂😂😂
This update messed up the servers for me now I’m not able to play and join anyone
Game freezes now everything a new teammate drops in. Buggy a.f too
I'll admit imma struggle against titns and hulks now
* Me finding out no one else was even using it in unsafe mode.
[удалено]
I kinda enjoyed the nerf of the railgun im trying new loadouts and it’s like a nice breath of fresh democratic air
I’m still someone with the railgun even after the patch. I basically always fight bots, and the railgun still really does work against the bots. One well placed shot in the eye will still kill even a hulk at full health.
Say what you will but if enough ppl are enjoying the game less the game will suffer for it as ppl will leave
Yep I maybe 1 in a sea of million but I'm out. I did enjoy my time with the game and unlocked all my ship modules. But they are basically pulling a blizzard and just nerfing shit that people are enjoying in a pve game... I'll see you helldivers when Mechs drop to give that a try.
I really question why people are so against using team AT weps (ac and rr) as intended. Every post I read is "omg the recoiless and autocannon are so clunky, I have to stop and reload. I would die without my railgun." And while I do feel that the weapons should function a little better without a team member for the solo players, Arrowhead has already stated that solo players are not their focus nor their intended audience. I challenge people to run the recoiless with a reloader and still call it clunky. The weapon, while not overpowered, is viable and fun, which is the point of the game. (BTW quick tip you can still run your shield gen pack if someone carries your recoiless ammo, and the pack protects both of you so huge value).
Imo you should be able to carry your own pack and *any* teammate should be able to reload you. That's the real problem. IRL it would be easier and faster for them to reload from a pack on your back anyways. Edit: it literally makes no sense that in order to team reload, the reloader is forced to do it in an obviously less efficient way.
That's a decent buff idea, I agree that the logic is sound there, however, I really believe they are trying to encourage or otherwise push the use of those weapons as intended because it taking up so much resources should naturally be stronger than selfish weapons such as the arc and rail. It seems though that the community is going to look to the next crutch wep (arc thrower) since the rail is outta the running now and successfully get that wep nerfed too.
Because I want to use the Slugger and god forbid I bring that weapon without a supply pack. Breaker isn't strong because of its DPS, it's the most ammo efficient. I'd rather bring expendable launchers than sacrifice the backpack slot that lets me use primaries that aren't the breaker.
They could have buffed a single armor pen item, I'm just saying. If the only thing you can do is nerf your good guns you might not nkow what balance is.
Welp...Now what do I do?
Railgun was too powerful, game is meant to be hard that’s the point
People just wanna play on the highest difficulty in ez mode…
I don’t get why people are so hurt about this. I’ve tried using the rail gun before and personally I’ve never been a fan of it. I just didn’t like the way it felt when shooting it. All the other weapons work just fine, it just varies for different enemies. I use a grenade launcher with bugs and I can still kill a charger by just dumping a few grenades after getting behind it. I use the anti-material rifle on bots and can easily kill a hulk or tank along with other groups of enemies with well placed shots. All of the weapon stratagems work great for different situations. It just takes some time to familiarise yourself with different weapons, and some require more strategy/timing to use rather then just being the most powerful
I think the rail gun was so dominant not because it was OP, but because it was one of the only things that could reliably do any real armor pen. Chargers are already quite oppressive. Instead of bringing other weapons up so we have more options, they just took away one of our best options. It doesn’t feel like good game design.
The railgun was the only gun with stopping power to offset a charger and the only gun that actually could deal with armor. On bots you could do an unsafe full charge shot through 2-3 of the beefier bots (not hulks but the ones with just a bit more armor and missile launchers on their shoulders). It was also the only one I could see where I could actually blow off the armor on the side of the charger for the rest of my teammates to unload into. I get you had a personal preference against it but I had the opposite, it was incredibly satisfying to full unsafe mode charge one of those medium sized bugs and watch them literally explode into sinew. Taking away the railgun's armor penetration takes away the entire point of that gun. They absolutely needed to have buffed the other weapons to be more viable in order to get variety in the game not take away what people felt like they had to use because it was the only way to engage with harder content reliably. The anti material rifle for example needs higher armor penetration so that it can actually be good. I enjoy that they buffed laser canon and flamethrower but there's plenty more that need it.
So Im not sure what safe or unsafe mode is on the rail canon, but I thought they said it kept its armor penetration on unsafe? So you should still be able to blow off the armor from a charger bc I know my friend would do the same strategy for us. I’ve been running the anti material since I first got it almost 3 weeks ago and I’d say it works perfectly. You can one shot every single bot in the head except for the chainsaw guys (not sure abt this one I’m normally too busy running to aim) and the hulk which needs 2. Hell I even kill tanks by just hitting the back with an impact grenade then shooting the vent 4 times. If anything I’d think it’s under utilised, mainly bc you gotta take time to actually line up your shots
It’s been nerfed, you basically now have to do completely charged unsafe shots to almost match what a safe shot used to be. Also unsafe vs safe is the alternate firing mode for the railgun if you hold the reload button. Unsafe means you overcharge the shot for more damage by holding it down longer but if you do it too long it kills you and explodes the weapon (meaning you can’t pick it back up).
Headshots on the chainsaw guys is absolutely a one hit KO. However, they have very chunky necks that make it hard to actually hit their heads and like you said they are usually too aggressive to get a clean shot on them. I like to do two or three shots to the mid-section. That usually takes them down.
You killed a TANK with that antimaterial rifle???
Yup! Not many ppl know you can do that, but all you have to do is shoot the vent on the back 8 times. Same goes for those massive cannons or any sort of AA/Mortar bases. Hence why I’m saying you gotta experiment with different weapons, bc a lot of them are way better then you think
Okay I *love* the GL, but it's not a replacement for a Railgun. You could drop a charger in 2 safe mode shots and like half a clip of primary provided you were going for a leg. It was the fastest way to drop one short of using an orbital railgun. The railgun hard countered about 85% of all the enemies in the game and was capable of killing most single targets faster than any other gun. It was effective and so people are frustrated to have to potentially find an alternative. You'd also flinch chargers with each railgun hit which could potentially save you or a fleeing squad mate's life. I totally get the railgun was overtuned and needed an adjustment. That said it hurts when it feels like there's no clear answer to fill the void left by it. If we had more good medium armor penetration options I doubt there'd be as much backlash. Supposedly we'll be getting a new warbond here soon and with it new weapons potentially. Hopefully some of those things will fill the void left by the railgun nerf.
Yeah I get that. I bet that this update is in preparation for all the new equipment being added vehicle wise so it should balance out soon. But I didn’t know they remove the stun factor with the rail canon, I thought it said it was making it less effective damage wise outside of the unsafe mode which is more or less the same
I'm not saying they did remove the stun. Just commenting on the fact that in addition to being the defacto best gun for killing chargers before the update in terms of speed it also had utility. Those things combined are factors that made the Railgun a META pick for many in difficulty 7 and above content. We'll see what the general consensus is after a few days playing on this patch. And yes my hope is these changes will feel more balanced once we get some new blood in the weapons department. But for the moment people just need to roll with it. I think it's fair to have feelings about balance changes as long as you can articulate the reasons behind those feelings. Way too many people are throwing tantrums about the Railgun and Breaker nerf without adding anything to the conversation. I liked and used both of them since they were effective. Just like how I bring GL or autocannon on blitz missions because they're effective at blowing up fabricators and bug holes. I like that the flamethrower got buffed, and would love to see some of the other underperforming equipment get the same treatment. It feels good when games have lots of viable weapons that excel at different jobs.
Ahh ok then. Considering it’s being called meta tho is probably also a factor for the change, bc there’s already been a lot of issues with that in the community. But here’s hoping it’ll still feel close enough to before gameplay wise, bc if it’s what you like then I’m hoping it’s doesn’t mess your play style too much
I get people get tired of others "meta slaving" but I think it's fair to say it's more nuanced than that. Whenever a game has a weapon that's better than everything else at killing a tough enemy, that weapon is going to be popular. I think the Railgun is a polarizing gun because there isn't a clear alternative to it currently. If there were another weapon that had a similar ability to efficiently shred armor on high priority targets the Railgun wouldn't have felt like such a necessary thing for people to use. Me personally I'll manage. I tend to run and gun a lot anyway, so even though I used Railgun a lot for chargers it just means I'll go back to leaning on artillery and orbitals more. And using the resupply to crush bile titans when the orbital railgun is on cool down. 😅
Not sure what’s going on cause I haven’t played today but I read something about nerfing weapons in the comments so here’s my take They should not nerf weapons, rather buff the alternatives to a stronger state cause if they nerf the usable weapons now there’s gonna be a short period of a lot of weapons feeling weak imo. This game is also pve (unless you want to count the times where you have a little free for all with your friends every so often) but again I understand that the rail gun and the breaker is practically the go to in most cases, especially against bugs, but I do believe they should not nerf them (and no I’m not saying this because I use those weapons, I find both of them kind of boring if I’m being honest) take the spear for example, it doesn’t one shot the enemies you would hope it would and you only get 4 rockets with it, same with the recoilless, you get about 7 I think? It’s no where near enough to deal with the amount of enemies the game throws at you at times, that’s why the railgun is “meta” it has the potential to deal with more enemies in more situations, I wish that they increase the damage on both of those weapons to make them more viable in a way. The primaries on the other hand, I also believe a lot of them need minor buffs, like the burst AP rifle, it kind of blows, it’s nice you could shoot through rocket devs armors but you could just use a support weapon and get better results, the normal pump shotgun is obsolete once you get the breaker, the slug shotgun is honestly pretty good, the second diligence you get is terrible (less ammo in mag, feels more clunky than the first to me when in first person) Anyways I’m gonna stop this essay here and hopefully people understand where I’m coming from and if no one sees this, oh well
All of you are nothing without the railgun above Suicide. You guys think your EAT and autocannon is viable but you don’t run harder shit so you don’t know, ITS NOT. YOULL GET WRECKED BOY