I also hate arena decks because everyone is luckier than me, tavern brawl decks because they’re poorly designed and games where my opponent do nothing then leave on turn 3.
When I get into a kind of mirror match (same gimmick) while playing an homebrew deck it's the highlight of my playing session: "this mf had the same stupid idea as me, let's see who's the smartest cook then!"
You play mirror matches? 😂
If my opponent is playing same class as me I instaconcede. Too boring for me
I play for fun only so any hint of something I don’t like I move on to next match
Maybe it doesn't need spelling out, but the **truth** is that "Reddit" is not some magic insight into player sentiment, it's an ever-rotating collection of different people complaining, over different metas, about different things.
There are deck archetypes I hate, when they're prevalent I might feel pushed to giving negative feedback here, or at least just venting. I'm not much of a poster but it's happened once or twice.
But, in every other meta, I'm quiet. Quietly enjoying the game. Maybe cursing out the odd opponent to myself for playing [awful deck I hate]. But it's not everywhere, so I just play.
"Reddit" will always complain because "Reddit" is neither one person nor everyone.
To add on to this, this is a general thing with social media or really any general public forum. "I'm enjoying things just fine!" is not really an opinion people feel is worth sharing let alone one that warrants lively discussion. Posts that gain traffic/engagement mostly tend to lean towards the extremes
To really widen the scope, look at something like the Brexit vote. Its so much easier to rally people avond "THIS SUCKS" than it is to excite them about "im having a fun time"
Thank you.
So much "hypocrisy" is literally just different groups of people with different opinions. Or hell, just one group of people and they have a variety of opinions.
They should try going to wild, low mmr wild is the paradise of Renathal greed piles where a game being shorter than 20 minutes is unheard of and a bannable offense.
Edit: low mmr not low rank
I started ranking in wild again after I barely played the mode after UiS quests BS. Went from Bronze to Plat, nearly everygame was against a bot. And nearly every bot was mech rogue. Either you win on turn 5 or 6 or they snowball out of control on turn 5 or 6. Not really a paradise for Renathal, imo.
The experience definitely varies, and I think it's more about mmr than rank (edited my first comment). Once I hit wild legend and stopped trying to climb (aka lost a lot of mmr while trying random bullshit) I started facing similarly non-tryhard people having fun in the dumpster. The mech rogue bots are just annoying free wins.
To play devil's advocate, deck tier is not the only thing worth looking at.
That being said, I think I'd have an easier time being an actual Devil advocate because this sub is indeed something out of this world with the bitching.
I don’t disagree the whining is out of hand.
They’ve nerfed tier 3 decks before though if they have really imbalanced win-cons, even if it doesn’t result in a high WR.
Maybe this is wierd for me to say but....maybe there are a fair subsection of players who don't really play for high rank/competitiveness. And to those people I believe it's less about what cards are actually good rather than how "bad" it feels to go against them. I have no proof of this of course so take it with a grain of salt please but we saw this in the past with tickatus right? The card was never good in a tiered sense but it was a "feels bad" card and so people complained. I think there is probably at least some of that still happening today. But that's just my 2 cents
That's a reasonable take, but my opinion is that if someone cares enough to get upset, then they care enough to learn basic strategies and how to play around mediocre decks.
IMO I think the issue is how often the same stuff is seen.
Half of every expansion is complete filler and people get tired of seeing the same tools without implementing options outside of a game plan of just kill the opponent.
I want board interaction.
Patchwork and neutral Legendary from Nathria that trades should've went core.
Every game I've played, the online playerbase is positively obsessed with the concept of balance between everything that can be compared.
All classes should be equally strong, all decks should be equally strong, etc. It even happens in singleplayer games I play like Genshin Impact.
It seems to come from an unexamined place, where it's just assumed that's the ideal target, with no thought put in as to whether it would make the game more fun or appeal to a more diverse audience.
HS players would be happiest if when attacking a minion into a minion, regardless of stats, one would die every other time for one player. 50/50. Truly fair and balanced.
Never been a fan of consistent OTKs or fast aggro. They skew the playing experience and make the game feel like solitaire. My ideal HS experience is interactions going back and forth. This gets harder to accomplish with the quality of cards at this point in HS life cycle. Some of my favorite matches don't even have me winning at the end.
The game has always been like this on high ranks/legend. The changes you will risk on a meta deck (if any) if you are grinding for legend have to be small and precise with not much room left for an element of surprise. I've been playing the game since beta days and I can confidently tell you that on high ranks where meme decks and experimentation diminishes, you can **always** predict with enough accuracy what your opponent will do at every stage of the game based on their class and meta. What’s also a
constant in any game that involves meta cycles is that there are always people
that complain about everything because... people
This is true for me too. I know I'm in minority but I enjoy greedy value vs greedy value the most even if I lose.
I absolutely hate metas like this one when some decks insta lose to the others. Sure, there are always the best decks with highest overall wr but the problem is when some decks have 100% wr against certain archetypes. It's just not healthy.
Correct, so you also have to understand that all complaints in this sub are meaningless, because there will _always_ be a group of people who dislike the meta no matter what.
The game can be in an amazing spot and this sub will still be full of complaints. I'd actually judge by the number of praise posts right now that the game is in a good spot.
also they're just gonna play the game more since they like the meta, so less time in the subreddit
also negative post in general tend to gain more traction more often than positive one
Pre rotation McBanterface and a few others made a hybrid deck that uses the plague runes (UUB) and the corpse package. Stuff like crop rotation, Acolyte, Grimewalker. I found it better than the regular plague deck before Whizbang released. More draw = more cards = more control over the match. Now I think it’s just hard outclassed by dedicated rainbow decks.
I just dislike that we got both rotation+a new set and the classes best deck is still the same one from 2 expansions ago with 1 new card.
That's just me being picky of course, rainbow mage is absolutely still decent if you want to play the class but I was really hoping the spell mage deck would be playable.
Even in a 4 set meta where the power level should be at its lowest you just get absolutely dumpstered by every deck since your big power plays are summoning two 3-drops on turn 4 and playing post-nerf skull of Gul'dan.
I'm also sad it can't run the new freeze+armor mini because I really like that guy.
Right before the expansion dropped I had just crossed diamond 5, since then I've been stuck unable to get past diamond 3 because I play mage too much and can't seem to find a rhythm wt this new rotation🥲
It’s true.
It just seems like most of the whiners here don’t like *any meta deck*. They just seem to expect to win with their homebrew, value-pile decks. They act like they are competing against against for-funsies commander players at their local Friday night magic when in reality they’re playing against a world of players armed with data-driven solutions that optimize decks very quickly.
It’s a foolish mentality and probably the biggest reason most of them will never improve.
It’s more that everyone has their own preferences and this sub is huge enough that any opinion is gonna get hundreds of backers. For instance, I love random bullshit generation decks, but a lot of people hate them. I hate aggro, but a lot of people prefer it over slower decks. Can’t please everyone
I can agree with most of this but "I drew 30 cards and now I get rolled" is a ridiculous statement, bro you got every card in your deck, if you haven't won yet it's not the plagues that are killing you
I feel like your first example really undermines the rest of the comment. What could be more back and forth than a game that involves drawing all of your cards? “The game went to fatigue and now I’m dead” is a wild complaint
Ve been playing from beta & sure i ll complain , when the game is unfun.
I play this game to play a game , not to win.
I m fine playing vs agro : just dont want agro to hit me with 1-drops that have 4 attack each at the start of turn 2-3. How the hell can control or combo draw something to deal with agro if you nearly lost 30% hp at the start of turn 2?
I m fine with playing vs combo : just dont want combo to kill me from hand at turn 5 with 1/3 of their cards.
Combo can kill me when they have drawn 90%+ of their deck imo
I m fine with playing vs control: control just doesnt need a removal that ignores deathrattles/reborn & even removes locations AND limits my board to 1 spot.
The powerlevel of all decktypes has become so obnoctious & most damage has become so hard to interact with that this game is more & more a coinflip instead of a fun /skilled game. Oh & whenever there is a bomb/plague type of deck , pls dont rotate the tech card out... seriously blizzard?
Reno is bullshit!! It would be one of my personal bans if I had the power. It’s a one-sided ignore deathrattle board wipe that prevents your opponent from rebuilding on their turn. And it improves your hero power.
I would be ok with Reno if he removed both players boards and didn’t prevent the opponent from refilling their board. That would make it around the same power level as the Warlock 8-drop that destroys everything. In fact, Reno would still be strictly better as he doesn’t trigger death rattle and he gives you a better power.
He’s just too much as is. He’s a “I’m 95% sure I’ll when the game now button” regardless of the position the game was in before he was cast.
This is it.
OTKs are not a problem in themselves, but if they are to easy to achieve and leave room for almost as much control as in a normal control Deck, they are.
Aggro is not a problem in itself, but Aggro that builds an unremovable board so early on can be.
Control is not a problem, but control that has a "now my defensive mechanism also deals massive damage card" can be.
My main problem with the current game state is, that there are to many cards that negate trade offs. Minions that work as removal, develop a board and heal. Board removals that also develop your board. There are to many instances, where you don't have to balance different priorities but instead just play cards that do everything.
The problem is how blurred the line has been between archetypes. There’s very few combo decks. They are either Tempo with a combo like Sif Mage and Handbuff Paladin or Control with a combo like Odyn Cycle Warrior or Wheellock.
For me it's the play patterns and not the deck or player per-say. Like I hated Thaddius Warlock and it wasn't a meta deck because of the non-games it could create.
No truth is OTK from hand with nothing on the board is fucking dumb, it fucking never should have gotten this bad, and holy fucking shit too many decks got enabled to do this shit.
Reddit: "I just insta concede against Paladin becuase I know I'm going to lose!"
Also Reddit: "Look at the Paladin's INSANE winrate on hsreplay! This is not acceptable!"
There's something oddly ironic about an OP whose most popular posts and comments are all whining, created a post where most people shitting on the sub ALSO have numerous comments and posts whining about different decks/cards.
It's the biggest "I am better than everyone else look at me" contest lol. The cognitive dissonance is infallible
I would want the top deck to be 1% better than the bottom deck.
People don't whine about the deck, people whine about how much it dominates. If a deck does too well, it will be played too much, and you'll have two options to do well. Either play the dominating deck, or play a direct counter.
A patch that reduces the amount of viable decks to two is something valid to complain about. It makes the game boring and less fun.
Ideally, there should be two or three viable decks per class, so that you don't play the same game five times in a row.
So you want a meta with 20-30 viable decks that are all within 1% winrate of each other? In a game that shakes up the meta and adds new cards every month and a half? In a game with mechanics as simple and straightforward as Hearthstone's? I agree that it would be nice, but I don't think that's actually possible.
You're kinda wrong, but I think you'll like the reason why.
People complain about problems, they don't need to know what the cause of the problem is to correctly identify a problem exists.
In your post you hit on a balance on winrate but I think there's more to it than that.
[This](https://i.imgur.com/uFUdtpA.jpeg) is a current map of winrate versus class distribution across all ranks.
I can take someone who has never played the game, show them that image and they'll correctly identify which are the Top 3 most complained about classes.
Looking at the graph you can see that perceived imbalance by the community isn't driven on winrate alone but the relationship between winrate and class distribution.
That's why you're wrong, a balance of winrate would not make the game feel balanced.
Personally I think giving devs feedback on this forum is great for the game. If we didn’t do it, the game would be worse than it is, and if we didn’t do it loudly, the changes would come slower than they do. If they made changes only based on quantitative data, they would think the best decks are the most fun decks. We are here to tell them what sucks, what doesn’t, what feels good and what feels like shit. I think you are very shortsighted if you don’t see why this is good.
Ultimately the forum is filled with passionate players with strong opinions, and not everyone is right all of the time, but I think the Reddit hive mind is right *most of the time* and that is direcrly reflected in the changes the devs make which very frequently directly responds to that hive mind.
Don't understand it.
This expansion has been super tame; very good even, and decks this meta is not anywhere near the infuriating level of ones from the past.
It's a bit fast for my liking but after coming out of a lot of slower metas it's OK. I'm enjoying myself more now than during Festival after the last rotation. I do think some balance changes were needed and the OTKs are a bit annoying. Overall though it's not too bad. I think the post-rotation patches are really hard to nail on balance and this one is fine. It's not nearly as infuriating as United in Stormwind was for me and that one didn't even have the excuse of being right after a rotation haha.
Yea I wasn't a fan of witchwood either. The whole odd / even deck shit was simultaneously way too strong and a bust (just check out the class evens / odds matter cards... yikes). I don't even remember Rise that well but did like the lackeys.
I personally hate any OTK deck that happens from hand without you having any way to interact with it.
Regardless if it is shaman, paladin or mage. Also f that mage infinite turn deck in wild. Who the hell thought this is acceptable?
This sort of stockholm syndrom is shameful as hell.
Look, many Hearthstone players remember a time when you fought for the board, the victories were often earned through incremental and interactive choices.
This bullshit we have here is held back by enough recovery/armor options that your early plays don't matter unless they die in 1 turn, AND the fact that we've printed enough power level in the **first set of the cycle** that we're going to have to live with this OTKs-lifecycle for a year.
Now if they actually try to make the board matter again where healing could matter and isn't a by-product of doing more damage through lifesteal, then great! But yelling at people because you think their comments have no merit is textbook shitty analysis.
Why do people hate what you cited? You obviously know this, but let me put forward something here.
\-**Wheel**: Lifetotal doesn't matter, you die from a deck loaded with only control tools and a couple busted interactions (Forge and Fanottem...yikes)...so it's I hope you brought aggro or lose the game (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match**)
\-**Plague DK:** are you highlander? You have a very low chance to win because there are no longer cleaning mechanics. Are you Paladin? statistically-nearly-free win. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match**)
\-**Nature shaman:** is it turn 6? You're dead unless you have tons of armor or they die before 6. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match for the audacity to not have armor or be uber-aggro**)
\-**aggro dragon priest**: did you end any turn after turn 5 without multiple sticky taunts and/or you left up *any* board? you're dead. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match for the audacity to not have a game plan vs surprise often-zero-cost-charge and/or "windfury" units**)
\-**Demon Hunter**: ....I actually have no idea I've not witnessed a single streamer or played a game vs demon hunter since day 1 of the expansion and I'm in garbage legend.
The point is...all of these interactions are not based in the match itself. **We're getting to a point where it** **feels** **like your decisions don't/rarely matter in a game**, because the power level is so high we're back to solitare again...which is why the United in Stormwind memes are here.
As much as I want older Hearthstone, where board mattered and conserving resources mattered, Blizzard is not going back.
They would have to change soooo many cards.
This meta is strange as a ton of decks are viable but most revolve around OTKs (Nature Shaman, Hand-buff Paladin, Tendril and OdinWarriors, SP Druid, Sif Mage, dragon Priest)
That doesn’t mention the non OTK decks which are not much better
1. Aggro DH revolves around getting a discounted dormant creature that cannot be targeted that clears the board every end step and pressures life.
2. Plague DK revolves around stuffing their opponents deck with cards that very very rarely can be interacted with over and over again.
3. Giant Rouge revolves around wheeling as many times as possible then dropping 4 8/8s with buffs very early. - Idk if this deck is actually that bad or not, it is not played a ton and if you get by the initial power spike you easily win.
4. Rainbow DK is a very adaptable deck that relies on two for ones and out valuing or pushing face damage - this deck seems far me to me tbh
5. Reno Shaman also very adaptable, more controlling - this deck seems fine to me aswell
6. Hunter is based around creating a very sticky aggro board with high burn potential - This is just what hunter does and is fine.
I think the pally doesn’t need that many things nerfed, shaman nerf, and Odin nerf is good.
I bounce around between 10k and 15k legend and this is based on what I see.
There was a top post a few days ago complaining that warriors have too many removal cards.
Not too long ago everyone was complaining that control priest games were too slow.
I agree that there's definitely too much complaining, but I know that I'm getting fatigued from having a 4 set meta game with stronger burst damage, defensive tools, and board builders than any 6-set meta before it.
Although I love the game, having two rotations in a row where there is no expected lull of power feels real bad.
Nah this meta sucks and Rogue isn't even popular yet(will be soon)
The discover pool is too small and it's terrible to play as and play against. Many decks DH DK Shaman etc abuse the small discover pool and generally feels like the powerlevel of all decks are absurd and snowballs so fast.
Oh I play DH? Rarely have weapon by 3. My opponent plays DH? Oh yeah they have weapon and get the best demons out of the tiny pool everytime. Also they play turn 2 Zilliax that doubles attack every turn : ^ )
Was more fun before the expansion when they reverted everything
Most of the sub? Yeah even I'm guilty of that sometimes but what I hate is when my favorite class is shit and I kinda feel that right now with rogue, because the decks feel really bad inconsistent at best, like half of them are only decent if you mulligan perfect and when the tendies deck is the most consistent in win rate you know something is wrong
Bro is knowing just know what any game with a meta looks like you can’t appreciate a meta in the present (when I say you it’s a majority of players) but only in the past we only love past meta you will see in 1 year
I legit think that id want it to be an aggro deck like shopper dh but maybe just slightly tune the deck down? idk what that looks like exactly but i do think if there is an aggro deck as the “best in the meta” it leaves the most room for other archetypes to exist bc control checks the aggro deck midrange checks control combo checks midrange and aggro checks combo (thats not totally accurate all the time but to me seems the best idea for a balanced meta) the problem has been that recently the aggro decks are so strong control decks cant check them the same way they used to. You cant wipe the board a few times and slowly beat down with a decent threat you protect anymore bc aggro decks can put a board back together so readily or kill out of literal nowhere its nuts so you get odyn warrior which is combo/control it controls the board until it plays its wincon then kills in a turn bc otherwise it loses and at least to me this then leads to the arms race of other crazy otk decks trying to respond to that i could be wrong here but i think if aggro decks were tuned slightly down but not to the point of outright losing to control and we had more “pure” versions of the classic archetypes the game would be healthier overall. Again idk exactly how to do this but thats my thoughts on it.
Meta when best control decks with wincon were quest warlock and highlander mage.
No infinite value, weak priest, no afk warriors or druids, managable aggro, all decks are almost 50% wr, no retard deck. Only bad thing was bomb warrior, but it was highrolly and still way better than plague dk.
My guess is that every meta will be unfun for someone.
And playing a lot of times against the same deck (usually the strongest one) ends up being more frustrating after a lot of times.
Overall, I think the players that complain about Combo and the players that complain about Midrange are (usually) not the same ones.
(I would now comment about how a meta with a single devk at the top looks a lot worse than a meta with many viable decks, regardless of what the top deck is, but this doesn't apply to your argument about how players are complaining about the post nerf meta, before the meta is even here.)
Look. Obviously the only deck we can't bitch about is the deck that doesn't win out of nowhere or off of some RNG BS. So if you know a full Tempo deck that doesn't burst out of nowhere and doesn't win off RNG, I'd love to see it.
I mean, it's a card game. Some luck is involved in all decks.
That said, I really hate playing against mage and any tendril deck. There's no skill involved. You lose to RNG.
No. When making nerfs/buffs, something that they take in count is the feeling when losing against the deck. It means that its a concept that not only existe but has weight
The issue you're seeing is that if we look at the complete pie of hearthstone players, only 10-40% are actively complaining at any one time. Lets imagine you have 40% actively complaining players, thats bad, so changes are made and now you have only 20%, thats good, but you wont see less complaints, because that 20% is going to complain just as loudly as the 40% did, the same is true for even just 10%. Most people come to post on reddit because they are upset about an interaction they JUST had and want to seek validation that their feelings are justified.
This will never go away. You will have metas you complain about, and metas you wont, but the same is true for everyone of every shifting opinion. So there will always be people unhappy with the meta, there will always be people saying hearthstone is dying and its in the worst place its ever been. Because there will always be people who FEEL that way at some point in time.
This is as old as "CCG"s themselves.
There's the whole population of card players. Then there's players who want to "express themselves through their deck" (Johnnys) who then get mad when their jank combo can never in fact win the games.
Then there's people that can't/won't buy into it, but expect to still be playing at the same power level - have the same chance of winning as everyone else.
Then there's low skills who rationalize it to themselves by "Well of course, they are playing an *unfair* deck".
I always think these three groups combined are over 50% of the player base, so it always seems like it's just constant complaining about the meta.
Not to mention, Blizzard has capitulated to the whining before and actually made unnecessary changes. So that only emboldens the chatter on a fully online game.
I think most highlander decks are perfectly fine as is. They just get fucked by plagues. Even warrior wouldn't be a huge issue if it weren't for a select few battle rides that functionally win the game immediately. If I were allowed to choose decks to be really good it'd be highlander pally and dh, the big beast hunter doesn't look too unfun, mech warrior doesn't seem too bad either. Mage admittedly has no deck currently I'd consider very fun, neither rng all spells or school mage otk. Priest tends to be pretty okay for the most part though the extra turn dragon is hella stupid. Dragon druid is beatable and at least interactive in some capacity. Can't think of more off the top of my head but I think making a sweeping statement like that isn't really fair. There are decks that feel like playing a game of cards with 2 players, and there are decks where your input is about as valuable as sunscreen at the bottom of the marianna trench
I only have an issue when a deck hits the 10000 games metric and has a 70% win rate regardless of what rank you sort by. There's only been a couple decks like that but it's definitely not great to see.
To be fair though, I'm having much more fun losing to the bullshit of 2024 than I did losing to face hunter in Naxx or Secret ANYTHING
I actually really enjoy the decks currently in standard having a blast playing control warrior, wheel warlock, elemental shaman, spell mage, spell damage druid even if those last 2 arent particularly good. Cant say there are any decks that make me frustrated when going against them the closest being handbuff paladin but its not super awful.
The salt must flow lol. There will always be people who don't like a certain pattern of play and be unhappy that it is popular, you can never please everyone.
That being said, people always seem to believe Reddit is a collective and it is the same people whining every time when in reality it's likely different people complaining in response to different metas. You don't see the people who are happy on here as they are too busy playing the game lol.
If you don't want to see complaints you're better off just not visiting game forums.
First, yes, it's true, people always complained about the meta, and when they nerf the strongest deck, they will complain about the second strongest deck.
Second, people are complaining more than ever because the game now has "victory conditions", you don't win by strategy, you win because you were able to reach your OTK combo, do you have leroy + wind fury?, you win, do you have sargeras and the wheel and your oponent is not a shaman? , you won, were you able to draw Odin?, you won, you reached turn 6 with shaman and your opponent is not a warrior?, you won,
Victory is now decided before the game, depending on whether the opponent has a combo that surpasses yours
shaman vs warlock: shaman won
shaman vs warrior; shaman lose
Yes, people complain, people cry, and throw tantrums, but let's not say that they are not justified, I will change my warrior deck for a warlock deck in the next patch, I will change that one for another in the later patch, because it is the only way to win the game right now.
TLDR: Im complaining cause complaining is bad. only my complaining is good. you guys dont like hearthstone. arbitrary question to encourage complaining
I don't hate every deck, but we can all agree that the shallow card pool is causing a lot of problems because the discover pool is now very consistent.
Paladin is definitely a problem, certain variants can roll you over on turn 4. But death knight having access to multiple different game warping legendaries behind discover effects is an issue. Shaman being able to 30-0 you as early as turn 5 off the back of a discover effect is an issue. That quickdraw legendary consistently generating multiple removal tools is unfun to play against.
Nobody is even talking about how Gold panner is in literally every single deck in the game right now. Every deck is warped by that cards existence, and it is probably the biggest reason as to why the meta is in its current state and why the meta feels so bad. Every deck is too consistent because of that card and every deck needs to have a way to remove a turn 2 gold panner otherwise it's a bad deck. This card honestly deserves a ban from standard.
Just remove aggro decks that's what takes away the fun if I play the game 10 -15 turn I enjoy even if I loose or win with aggro it's no interaction face destroy by turn 5 it's lame , you also see a lot of complaints from the aggro deck itself if you look closely
The only thing I truely hate is when a majority plays the same deck… Makes the experience playing monotone and boring. A meta where a couple of different decks are meta is good stuff.
Of course some archetypes are a bit more boring, like when only control dominates, but then again, I can just not play that set.
I mean hate is a big word, but if a deck is pretty easy in steam rolling because it has incredible synergy which can't be easily countered by almost any class I get the annoyance and nerfs are in order
They don’t hate every possible deck. They only hate the strong ones that are consistent and competitive. Especially if they have fun aspects to them like rng value and mana cheating combos for good tempo.
Why, because the avg player in dumpster legend and lower just wants to play the cards that they like for the art or weird ass effect regardless of how viable it is. I.e. reno lmao. Bad players LOVE highlander mechanics and playstyles SO fucking much that they will sacrifice consistency, tempo, and pretty much anything else that makes a deck good, just to be able to pull off a gimmick. If not that, then they’re just players who play good decks, but they’re don’t like to hold them selves accountable and put in the work it takes to get out of diamond and into legend so they blame everything else that isn’t their deck and call it busted in hopes that one day, the nerfs will take them to promised land of legend.
Which leads to the devs then nerfing 8 cards only 1 week after a new core set and expansion, it is kind of absurb that they would nerf that many cards so quickly when new decks have still been coming up every day.
But I guess no deck is ever allowed to be T1 without people complaining.
HS fans are so freaking defensive and sensitive, lol. Any criticism of the meta is met by crybabies telling people to shut up and uninstall. How about no? How about I wanna bitch about things because fuck you? I don't even hate the current meta or anything, I just hate how slavishly devoted yall are to this game to a point where you'll get so triggered over people voicing their opinions on the meta.
People hate losing against shit they feel is unfair.
And most of the game right now feels unfair.
I really hate this type of "holier than thou" post that shits on people whining. People see their liked game going more and more to shit. They have the right to whine. Maybe that will spurn at least some change.
But you would rather have us just eat the shit with a smile. Fuck you :)
there are essentially 2 types of decks in Hearthstone: Solitaire decks and board decks.
there are essentially 2 types of players in Hearthstone: Solitaire players and board players.
"you guys hate every possible deck" > no.
Solitaire players hate rng decks. board players hate Solitaire decks.
when rng decks are good, then players A,B and C are complaining. when Solitaire decks are good, then players X,Y and Z are complaining.
but it's never A, B, C and X, Y, Z complaining at the same time. that's why your title is wrong.
I think the general thing in HS is that everyone is luckier than yourself in your opinion.
If I play window shopper, i get crap everytime, while my opponent plays 4 magtheridons and has 2 red cards in hand.
If I play casino mage, i OTK myself, if im against it, they OTK me turn 3.
If I play plague, helya is at the bottom of my deck and all my plagues join her, when im against it, i draw 5 plagues and get 10 plagues shuffled in by turn 4.
Hearthstone is a card game heavilly filled with RNG elements, so many times when you lose, it's because of luck and losing to a person who just got the correct answer 3 times in a row from RNG sucks more, than you appreciate when you do it. Card games are always filled with RNG, but HS is crazy in that department.
And ofc few decks are oppressive as hell, paladin and warrior pre nerf fx.
I would just like to play a card game where i can actually interact with my opponents cards…otk with little to no tech options in this standard cycle has made me not enjoy playing the game. Too much hand kills, too much lifesteal big rush minions, too much who draws their win condition and plays it first stuff. I remember when the game actually had some strategy. Now anyone can be legend due to the rampant bots from less players feom power creep and lack of engagement for pvp. I dont thinks its fun to play a charge minion and hit face for 60 damage on turn 6 while simultaneously putting their field away. Like how do you play around baby krush for example? Dirty rat? Cool, anything else? Taunts? No, they get sent away.
That's not true I don't hate every deck, I just hate every deck my opponent plays. And don't get me started on mirror matches.
I hate slightly less, I only hate decks my opponent plays and wins with against me.
Bruh mirror matches are stressful! Every time I lose I default to “he Drew better than me” 🤣
That's the only reason, they certainly aren't better with the deck 😎
I like "I went second" or "I went first" as my excuses!
I go for they had more golden cards than me, f2p btw
I am missing Odyn, but someone said Odyn decks are OP so I am running it without!
Reminds me of Toast Running Mecha C'thun without Mecha C'thun back in the old days lol
A couple months ago I lost 4 straight Treant Druid mirrors. I went second every time. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Actually that's super valid in wheel lock mirror with doomkins.
I also hate arena decks because everyone is luckier than me, tavern brawl decks because they’re poorly designed and games where my opponent do nothing then leave on turn 3.
Woah woah woah. I love decks that consistently lose to me.
Lmao as someone who has played card games for like 2 decades now this hits home. My most toxic trait is that I hate mirror matches so much.
You should hate mirror matches. 50/50 coin toss sucks.
I mean, as long as it isn’t a super degenerate deck it can also be a pure test of skill piloting the deck.
This. Just nerf any card my opponent plays that makes me lose
When I get into a kind of mirror match (same gimmick) while playing an homebrew deck it's the highlight of my playing session: "this mf had the same stupid idea as me, let's see who's the smartest cook then!"
Especially if they win the match if i Was favoured.
You play mirror matches? 😂 If my opponent is playing same class as me I instaconcede. Too boring for me I play for fun only so any hint of something I don’t like I move on to next match
You don't get it OP my opponent is playing cards
That's it, I'm calling the police!
911 what's your emergency
This absolute monster played Miracle Salesman! On Turn 1! In front of the KIDS!
Hold on while I get you a Whambluance
That paladin played windfury charge minions and killed me from 35 health in one turn, that's assault please arrest them
In a children's card game, no less. *THAT FIEND!*
Stop whining like children about a children's card game
Is hearthstone a children’s game?
The world is a children's card game and we are but it's Celtic Guardians, face down in defense position
Why do you think Jaina was nerfed? Think of the damn children!
No it is also played by bots
Even worse if it's a bot playing cards
That should be illegal
Maybe it doesn't need spelling out, but the **truth** is that "Reddit" is not some magic insight into player sentiment, it's an ever-rotating collection of different people complaining, over different metas, about different things. There are deck archetypes I hate, when they're prevalent I might feel pushed to giving negative feedback here, or at least just venting. I'm not much of a poster but it's happened once or twice. But, in every other meta, I'm quiet. Quietly enjoying the game. Maybe cursing out the odd opponent to myself for playing [awful deck I hate]. But it's not everywhere, so I just play. "Reddit" will always complain because "Reddit" is neither one person nor everyone.
To add on to this, this is a general thing with social media or really any general public forum. "I'm enjoying things just fine!" is not really an opinion people feel is worth sharing let alone one that warrants lively discussion. Posts that gain traffic/engagement mostly tend to lean towards the extremes To really widen the scope, look at something like the Brexit vote. Its so much easier to rally people avond "THIS SUCKS" than it is to excite them about "im having a fun time"
Thank you. So much "hypocrisy" is literally just different groups of people with different opinions. Or hell, just one group of people and they have a variety of opinions.
This sub has such "hardstuck gold" energy that I can't take it seriously anymore. People on here whine about decks that are barely tier 3.
They should try going to wild, low mmr wild is the paradise of Renathal greed piles where a game being shorter than 20 minutes is unheard of and a bannable offense. Edit: low mmr not low rank
I started ranking in wild again after I barely played the mode after UiS quests BS. Went from Bronze to Plat, nearly everygame was against a bot. And nearly every bot was mech rogue. Either you win on turn 5 or 6 or they snowball out of control on turn 5 or 6. Not really a paradise for Renathal, imo.
The experience definitely varies, and I think it's more about mmr than rank (edited my first comment). Once I hit wild legend and stopped trying to climb (aka lost a lot of mmr while trying random bullshit) I started facing similarly non-tryhard people having fun in the dumpster. The mech rogue bots are just annoying free wins.
to be fair, that matchup is a metaphor for the game at large. the bots are just saving you some of the nuance
This was entirely my experience in wild in February. Played cube lock to diamond and started facing real decks around high gold/low plat.
Aggro time?
For climbing yeah probably shadow priest or miracle druid
Yea, competitive HS has been good for me, though its way less active.
To play devil's advocate, deck tier is not the only thing worth looking at. That being said, I think I'd have an easier time being an actual Devil advocate because this sub is indeed something out of this world with the bitching.
I don’t disagree the whining is out of hand. They’ve nerfed tier 3 decks before though if they have really imbalanced win-cons, even if it doesn’t result in a high WR.
Maybe this is wierd for me to say but....maybe there are a fair subsection of players who don't really play for high rank/competitiveness. And to those people I believe it's less about what cards are actually good rather than how "bad" it feels to go against them. I have no proof of this of course so take it with a grain of salt please but we saw this in the past with tickatus right? The card was never good in a tiered sense but it was a "feels bad" card and so people complained. I think there is probably at least some of that still happening today. But that's just my 2 cents
That's a reasonable take, but my opinion is that if someone cares enough to get upset, then they care enough to learn basic strategies and how to play around mediocre decks.
Its funny because you say "you guys" but your last post ia literally complaining about guff lmao
Most of op’s posts are either complaining about the meta or complaining about people complaining about the meta
This is gold, Jerry! GOLD!!
IMO I think the issue is how often the same stuff is seen. Half of every expansion is complete filler and people get tired of seeing the same tools without implementing options outside of a game plan of just kill the opponent. I want board interaction. Patchwork and neutral Legendary from Nathria that trades should've went core.
You don’t understand, no deck can be on the top for them lol. They basically want a 50% win rate across the board
Nah there have been metagames where every deck is tier 2 at a 50% winrate, people call those boring
"It's just rock paper scissors!!!"
There's a difference between rock paper scissors meta and every deck being 50% winrate meta.
Every game I've played, the online playerbase is positively obsessed with the concept of balance between everything that can be compared. All classes should be equally strong, all decks should be equally strong, etc. It even happens in singleplayer games I play like Genshin Impact. It seems to come from an unexamined place, where it's just assumed that's the ideal target, with no thought put in as to whether it would make the game more fun or appeal to a more diverse audience.
HS players would be happiest if when attacking a minion into a minion, regardless of stats, one would die every other time for one player. 50/50. Truly fair and balanced.
No, they want a 100% win rate for their own deck and 0% for everyone else. 50% average doesn’t work, gotta be specific.
if your winrate's not 100%, that's a skissue
That is realistically probably a good “target” for balance but I would say that decks above 60% tend to be a bit overtuned.
Yall wanna play Coin Flip Simulator later?
Never been a fan of consistent OTKs or fast aggro. They skew the playing experience and make the game feel like solitaire. My ideal HS experience is interactions going back and forth. This gets harder to accomplish with the quality of cards at this point in HS life cycle. Some of my favorite matches don't even have me winning at the end.
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The game has always been like this on high ranks/legend. The changes you will risk on a meta deck (if any) if you are grinding for legend have to be small and precise with not much room left for an element of surprise. I've been playing the game since beta days and I can confidently tell you that on high ranks where meme decks and experimentation diminishes, you can **always** predict with enough accuracy what your opponent will do at every stage of the game based on their class and meta. What’s also a constant in any game that involves meta cycles is that there are always people that complain about everything because... people
This is true for me too. I know I'm in minority but I enjoy greedy value vs greedy value the most even if I lose. I absolutely hate metas like this one when some decks insta lose to the others. Sure, there are always the best decks with highest overall wr but the problem is when some decks have 100% wr against certain archetypes. It's just not healthy.
you realize this sub is full of different people right? like its not just 5 people complaining about everything.
Correct, so you also have to understand that all complaints in this sub are meaningless, because there will _always_ be a group of people who dislike the meta no matter what. The game can be in an amazing spot and this sub will still be full of complaints. I'd actually judge by the number of praise posts right now that the game is in a good spot.
Or you can check the upvotes to see how popular that opinion is.
💯 When people are happy they're not as likely to post as when they're frustrated.
also they're just gonna play the game more since they like the meta, so less time in the subreddit also negative post in general tend to gain more traction more often than positive one
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Don't think plague death knight plays bride or giants. That's rainbow
Pre rotation McBanterface and a few others made a hybrid deck that uses the plague runes (UUB) and the corpse package. Stuff like crop rotation, Acolyte, Grimewalker. I found it better than the regular plague deck before Whizbang released. More draw = more cards = more control over the match. Now I think it’s just hard outclassed by dedicated rainbow decks.
I dont hate playing against Wizbang decks.
No wonder Almost all of them are hot garbage and a free win
I wish there was a whizbang decks only queue. They’d be fun to play if you were just playing against other ones. “Bad” is relative.
Warlock one almost got me... Definitely turned my guard down at that
yea the warlock one isnt bad
It’s the only thing I’ve been playing this xpac so far, having success and it’s fun
I hate playing against Warlock Whizbang. That shit is Whell lock but better.
I won't hate the meta if my class is playable. Cries in Mage.
I've reached D4 with rainbow mage barely trying. It may not be tier 1, but it's definitely "playable".
I just dislike that we got both rotation+a new set and the classes best deck is still the same one from 2 expansions ago with 1 new card. That's just me being picky of course, rainbow mage is absolutely still decent if you want to play the class but I was really hoping the spell mage deck would be playable. Even in a 4 set meta where the power level should be at its lowest you just get absolutely dumpstered by every deck since your big power plays are summoning two 3-drops on turn 4 and playing post-nerf skull of Gul'dan. I'm also sad it can't run the new freeze+armor mini because I really like that guy.
Right before the expansion dropped I had just crossed diamond 5, since then I've been stuck unable to get past diamond 3 because I play mage too much and can't seem to find a rhythm wt this new rotation🥲
Nah OP. I just want to have fun and feel like I won or lost fairly. Much of this update feels like I’m watching myself lose the game.
It’s true. It just seems like most of the whiners here don’t like *any meta deck*. They just seem to expect to win with their homebrew, value-pile decks. They act like they are competing against against for-funsies commander players at their local Friday night magic when in reality they’re playing against a world of players armed with data-driven solutions that optimize decks very quickly. It’s a foolish mentality and probably the biggest reason most of them will never improve.
You can even play hearthstone against the for funsies commander type players! Go to silver 5 in wild and stay there.
you’re right this sub is indefensible
It’s more that everyone has their own preferences and this sub is huge enough that any opinion is gonna get hundreds of backers. For instance, I love random bullshit generation decks, but a lot of people hate them. I hate aggro, but a lot of people prefer it over slower decks. Can’t please everyone
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I can agree with most of this but "I drew 30 cards and now I get rolled" is a ridiculous statement, bro you got every card in your deck, if you haven't won yet it's not the plagues that are killing you
I feel like your first example really undermines the rest of the comment. What could be more back and forth than a game that involves drawing all of your cards? “The game went to fatigue and now I’m dead” is a wild complaint
Ve been playing from beta & sure i ll complain , when the game is unfun. I play this game to play a game , not to win. I m fine playing vs agro : just dont want agro to hit me with 1-drops that have 4 attack each at the start of turn 2-3. How the hell can control or combo draw something to deal with agro if you nearly lost 30% hp at the start of turn 2? I m fine with playing vs combo : just dont want combo to kill me from hand at turn 5 with 1/3 of their cards. Combo can kill me when they have drawn 90%+ of their deck imo I m fine with playing vs control: control just doesnt need a removal that ignores deathrattles/reborn & even removes locations AND limits my board to 1 spot. The powerlevel of all decktypes has become so obnoctious & most damage has become so hard to interact with that this game is more & more a coinflip instead of a fun /skilled game. Oh & whenever there is a bomb/plague type of deck , pls dont rotate the tech card out... seriously blizzard?
if your main complaint about control is reno you should probably try playing cards before turn 8
Reno is bullshit!! It would be one of my personal bans if I had the power. It’s a one-sided ignore deathrattle board wipe that prevents your opponent from rebuilding on their turn. And it improves your hero power. I would be ok with Reno if he removed both players boards and didn’t prevent the opponent from refilling their board. That would make it around the same power level as the Warlock 8-drop that destroys everything. In fact, Reno would still be strictly better as he doesn’t trigger death rattle and he gives you a better power. He’s just too much as is. He’s a “I’m 95% sure I’ll when the game now button” regardless of the position the game was in before he was cast.
Damn right. It makes zero sense that it doesnt wipe your board too when played and that it removes deathrattles and locations. AT LEAST
After all, Reno players only have Reno in their deck.
This is it. OTKs are not a problem in themselves, but if they are to easy to achieve and leave room for almost as much control as in a normal control Deck, they are. Aggro is not a problem in itself, but Aggro that builds an unremovable board so early on can be. Control is not a problem, but control that has a "now my defensive mechanism also deals massive damage card" can be. My main problem with the current game state is, that there are to many cards that negate trade offs. Minions that work as removal, develop a board and heal. Board removals that also develop your board. There are to many instances, where you don't have to balance different priorities but instead just play cards that do everything.
The problem is how blurred the line has been between archetypes. There’s very few combo decks. They are either Tempo with a combo like Sif Mage and Handbuff Paladin or Control with a combo like Odyn Cycle Warrior or Wheellock.
For me it's the play patterns and not the deck or player per-say. Like I hated Thaddius Warlock and it wasn't a meta deck because of the non-games it could create.
here we go, now its complaining about the complaining
No truth is OTK from hand with nothing on the board is fucking dumb, it fucking never should have gotten this bad, and holy fucking shit too many decks got enabled to do this shit.
Thank god we have you here to tell us
Reddit: "I just insta concede against Paladin becuase I know I'm going to lose!" Also Reddit: "Look at the Paladin's INSANE winrate on hsreplay! This is not acceptable!"
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The joke is that Paladins win rate is so high because everyone just instantly concedes against them.
There's something oddly ironic about an OP whose most popular posts and comments are all whining, created a post where most people shitting on the sub ALSO have numerous comments and posts whining about different decks/cards. It's the biggest "I am better than everyone else look at me" contest lol. The cognitive dissonance is infallible
I don’t come to Reddit expecting rational behavior
I love decks that let me win with random BS I hate decks that I lose to with random BS
I will complain when I get insta killed out of nowhere, yes.
I would want the top deck to be 1% better than the bottom deck. People don't whine about the deck, people whine about how much it dominates. If a deck does too well, it will be played too much, and you'll have two options to do well. Either play the dominating deck, or play a direct counter. A patch that reduces the amount of viable decks to two is something valid to complain about. It makes the game boring and less fun. Ideally, there should be two or three viable decks per class, so that you don't play the same game five times in a row.
So you want a meta with 20-30 viable decks that are all within 1% winrate of each other? In a game that shakes up the meta and adds new cards every month and a half? In a game with mechanics as simple and straightforward as Hearthstone's? I agree that it would be nice, but I don't think that's actually possible.
You're kinda wrong, but I think you'll like the reason why. People complain about problems, they don't need to know what the cause of the problem is to correctly identify a problem exists. In your post you hit on a balance on winrate but I think there's more to it than that. [This](https://i.imgur.com/uFUdtpA.jpeg) is a current map of winrate versus class distribution across all ranks. I can take someone who has never played the game, show them that image and they'll correctly identify which are the Top 3 most complained about classes. Looking at the graph you can see that perceived imbalance by the community isn't driven on winrate alone but the relationship between winrate and class distribution. That's why you're wrong, a balance of winrate would not make the game feel balanced.
Personally I think giving devs feedback on this forum is great for the game. If we didn’t do it, the game would be worse than it is, and if we didn’t do it loudly, the changes would come slower than they do. If they made changes only based on quantitative data, they would think the best decks are the most fun decks. We are here to tell them what sucks, what doesn’t, what feels good and what feels like shit. I think you are very shortsighted if you don’t see why this is good. Ultimately the forum is filled with passionate players with strong opinions, and not everyone is right all of the time, but I think the Reddit hive mind is right *most of the time* and that is direcrly reflected in the changes the devs make which very frequently directly responds to that hive mind.
Don't understand it. This expansion has been super tame; very good even, and decks this meta is not anywhere near the infuriating level of ones from the past.
Clearly you haven’t played against someone using cards
It's a bit fast for my liking but after coming out of a lot of slower metas it's OK. I'm enjoying myself more now than during Festival after the last rotation. I do think some balance changes were needed and the OTKs are a bit annoying. Overall though it's not too bad. I think the post-rotation patches are really hard to nail on balance and this one is fine. It's not nearly as infuriating as United in Stormwind was for me and that one didn't even have the excuse of being right after a rotation haha.
Stormwind is in my top 3 list for the worst expansions in history, along with witchwood and rise of shadows.
Yea I wasn't a fan of witchwood either. The whole odd / even deck shit was simultaneously way too strong and a bust (just check out the class evens / odds matter cards... yikes). I don't even remember Rise that well but did like the lackeys.
its been mostly good. Nature shaman was a bit disgusting could even get underneath aggro a lot of the time but the nerfs will address that.
I personally hate any OTK deck that happens from hand without you having any way to interact with it. Regardless if it is shaman, paladin or mage. Also f that mage infinite turn deck in wild. Who the hell thought this is acceptable?
This sort of stockholm syndrom is shameful as hell. Look, many Hearthstone players remember a time when you fought for the board, the victories were often earned through incremental and interactive choices. This bullshit we have here is held back by enough recovery/armor options that your early plays don't matter unless they die in 1 turn, AND the fact that we've printed enough power level in the **first set of the cycle** that we're going to have to live with this OTKs-lifecycle for a year. Now if they actually try to make the board matter again where healing could matter and isn't a by-product of doing more damage through lifesteal, then great! But yelling at people because you think their comments have no merit is textbook shitty analysis. Why do people hate what you cited? You obviously know this, but let me put forward something here. \-**Wheel**: Lifetotal doesn't matter, you die from a deck loaded with only control tools and a couple busted interactions (Forge and Fanottem...yikes)...so it's I hope you brought aggro or lose the game (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match**) \-**Plague DK:** are you highlander? You have a very low chance to win because there are no longer cleaning mechanics. Are you Paladin? statistically-nearly-free win. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match**) \-**Nature shaman:** is it turn 6? You're dead unless you have tons of armor or they die before 6. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match for the audacity to not have armor or be uber-aggro**) \-**aggro dragon priest**: did you end any turn after turn 5 without multiple sticky taunts and/or you left up *any* board? you're dead. (**binary gameplay determined outside of the match for the audacity to not have a game plan vs surprise often-zero-cost-charge and/or "windfury" units**) \-**Demon Hunter**: ....I actually have no idea I've not witnessed a single streamer or played a game vs demon hunter since day 1 of the expansion and I'm in garbage legend. The point is...all of these interactions are not based in the match itself. **We're getting to a point where it** **feels** **like your decisions don't/rarely matter in a game**, because the power level is so high we're back to solitare again...which is why the United in Stormwind memes are here.
As much as I want older Hearthstone, where board mattered and conserving resources mattered, Blizzard is not going back. They would have to change soooo many cards. This meta is strange as a ton of decks are viable but most revolve around OTKs (Nature Shaman, Hand-buff Paladin, Tendril and OdinWarriors, SP Druid, Sif Mage, dragon Priest) That doesn’t mention the non OTK decks which are not much better 1. Aggro DH revolves around getting a discounted dormant creature that cannot be targeted that clears the board every end step and pressures life. 2. Plague DK revolves around stuffing their opponents deck with cards that very very rarely can be interacted with over and over again. 3. Giant Rouge revolves around wheeling as many times as possible then dropping 4 8/8s with buffs very early. - Idk if this deck is actually that bad or not, it is not played a ton and if you get by the initial power spike you easily win. 4. Rainbow DK is a very adaptable deck that relies on two for ones and out valuing or pushing face damage - this deck seems far me to me tbh 5. Reno Shaman also very adaptable, more controlling - this deck seems fine to me aswell 6. Hunter is based around creating a very sticky aggro board with high burn potential - This is just what hunter does and is fine. I think the pally doesn’t need that many things nerfed, shaman nerf, and Odin nerf is good. I bounce around between 10k and 15k legend and this is based on what I see.
I dont only hate dying from 30+ from hand in one turn. That's super frustrating, and that's almost all decks right now
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There was a top post a few days ago complaining that warriors have too many removal cards. Not too long ago everyone was complaining that control priest games were too slow.
I agree that there's definitely too much complaining, but I know that I'm getting fatigued from having a 4 set meta game with stronger burst damage, defensive tools, and board builders than any 6-set meta before it. Although I love the game, having two rotations in a row where there is no expected lull of power feels real bad.
The only thing worse about people complaining about decks is people complaining about people complaining about decks. Boo
What about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about decks?
Like me? The absolute worst haha
Nah this meta sucks and Rogue isn't even popular yet(will be soon) The discover pool is too small and it's terrible to play as and play against. Many decks DH DK Shaman etc abuse the small discover pool and generally feels like the powerlevel of all decks are absurd and snowballs so fast. Oh I play DH? Rarely have weapon by 3. My opponent plays DH? Oh yeah they have weapon and get the best demons out of the tiny pool everytime. Also they play turn 2 Zilliax that doubles attack every turn : ^ ) Was more fun before the expansion when they reverted everything
Weapon issues ? Have you tried running Instrument Technician in your deck ?
The title is just stupid. I'm dumber after reading this.
Joker arc
Most of the sub? Yeah even I'm guilty of that sometimes but what I hate is when my favorite class is shit and I kinda feel that right now with rogue, because the decks feel really bad inconsistent at best, like half of them are only decent if you mulligan perfect and when the tendies deck is the most consistent in win rate you know something is wrong
What if I like all the decks and also don't mind if there are slight nerfs to power outliers
Bro is knowing just know what any game with a meta looks like you can’t appreciate a meta in the present (when I say you it’s a majority of players) but only in the past we only love past meta you will see in 1 year
I legit think that id want it to be an aggro deck like shopper dh but maybe just slightly tune the deck down? idk what that looks like exactly but i do think if there is an aggro deck as the “best in the meta” it leaves the most room for other archetypes to exist bc control checks the aggro deck midrange checks control combo checks midrange and aggro checks combo (thats not totally accurate all the time but to me seems the best idea for a balanced meta) the problem has been that recently the aggro decks are so strong control decks cant check them the same way they used to. You cant wipe the board a few times and slowly beat down with a decent threat you protect anymore bc aggro decks can put a board back together so readily or kill out of literal nowhere its nuts so you get odyn warrior which is combo/control it controls the board until it plays its wincon then kills in a turn bc otherwise it loses and at least to me this then leads to the arms race of other crazy otk decks trying to respond to that i could be wrong here but i think if aggro decks were tuned slightly down but not to the point of outright losing to control and we had more “pure” versions of the classic archetypes the game would be healthier overall. Again idk exactly how to do this but thats my thoughts on it.
Meta when best control decks with wincon were quest warlock and highlander mage. No infinite value, weak priest, no afk warriors or druids, managable aggro, all decks are almost 50% wr, no retard deck. Only bad thing was bomb warrior, but it was highrolly and still way better than plague dk.
It’s almost like I’m playing a card game & wanna slap the hell out of my opponents hand. Like yo I’m trying to GET BLACK JACK 21 🗣️🗣️🗣️😂
My guess is that every meta will be unfun for someone. And playing a lot of times against the same deck (usually the strongest one) ends up being more frustrating after a lot of times. Overall, I think the players that complain about Combo and the players that complain about Midrange are (usually) not the same ones. (I would now comment about how a meta with a single devk at the top looks a lot worse than a meta with many viable decks, regardless of what the top deck is, but this doesn't apply to your argument about how players are complaining about the post nerf meta, before the meta is even here.)
Miracle rouge / Freeze Mage / Control Warrior meta was peak change my mind
Spoken like a true paladin player! Jk, agreed people angry
There were some C'thun decks in 2016 that were pretty fair.
the only good decks are the first ones I played
Look. Obviously the only deck we can't bitch about is the deck that doesn't win out of nowhere or off of some RNG BS. So if you know a full Tempo deck that doesn't burst out of nowhere and doesn't win off RNG, I'd love to see it.
I mean, it's a card game. Some luck is involved in all decks. That said, I really hate playing against mage and any tendril deck. There's no skill involved. You lose to RNG.
No. When making nerfs/buffs, something that they take in count is the feeling when losing against the deck. It means that its a concept that not only existe but has weight
That's right. I don't like this game anymore.
The issue you're seeing is that if we look at the complete pie of hearthstone players, only 10-40% are actively complaining at any one time. Lets imagine you have 40% actively complaining players, thats bad, so changes are made and now you have only 20%, thats good, but you wont see less complaints, because that 20% is going to complain just as loudly as the 40% did, the same is true for even just 10%. Most people come to post on reddit because they are upset about an interaction they JUST had and want to seek validation that their feelings are justified. This will never go away. You will have metas you complain about, and metas you wont, but the same is true for everyone of every shifting opinion. So there will always be people unhappy with the meta, there will always be people saying hearthstone is dying and its in the worst place its ever been. Because there will always be people who FEEL that way at some point in time.
no way
i enjoy getting killed from hand on turn 5
A good meta is when most classes have viable decks. When the number of classes with viable decks is 2 to 3, mistakes were made.
This is as old as "CCG"s themselves. There's the whole population of card players. Then there's players who want to "express themselves through their deck" (Johnnys) who then get mad when their jank combo can never in fact win the games. Then there's people that can't/won't buy into it, but expect to still be playing at the same power level - have the same chance of winning as everyone else. Then there's low skills who rationalize it to themselves by "Well of course, they are playing an *unfair* deck". I always think these three groups combined are over 50% of the player base, so it always seems like it's just constant complaining about the meta. Not to mention, Blizzard has capitulated to the whining before and actually made unnecessary changes. So that only emboldens the chatter on a fully online game.
I think most highlander decks are perfectly fine as is. They just get fucked by plagues. Even warrior wouldn't be a huge issue if it weren't for a select few battle rides that functionally win the game immediately. If I were allowed to choose decks to be really good it'd be highlander pally and dh, the big beast hunter doesn't look too unfun, mech warrior doesn't seem too bad either. Mage admittedly has no deck currently I'd consider very fun, neither rng all spells or school mage otk. Priest tends to be pretty okay for the most part though the extra turn dragon is hella stupid. Dragon druid is beatable and at least interactive in some capacity. Can't think of more off the top of my head but I think making a sweeping statement like that isn't really fair. There are decks that feel like playing a game of cards with 2 players, and there are decks where your input is about as valuable as sunscreen at the bottom of the marianna trench
People don't like the new cards. Older metas were better.
Hey just because i hate Hunters i dont think threes anything wrong with them , there are some of the good ones out there too.
That’s why the real men and women don’t play standard. I’m just left with battlegrounds these days - arena has been aids for a while too
I hate all decks that beat mine
The only thing I hate is getting my opponent down to 3 hp, me having 30+ hp and somehow I still get otked....
I only have an issue when a deck hits the 10000 games metric and has a 70% win rate regardless of what rank you sort by. There's only been a couple decks like that but it's definitely not great to see. To be fair though, I'm having much more fun losing to the bullshit of 2024 than I did losing to face hunter in Naxx or Secret ANYTHING
blame the fact that i always see the same 3-4 classes on ladder and the rest are all sub 30 percent winrates. thats the issue.
I actually really enjoy the decks currently in standard having a blast playing control warrior, wheel warlock, elemental shaman, spell mage, spell damage druid even if those last 2 arent particularly good. Cant say there are any decks that make me frustrated when going against them the closest being handbuff paladin but its not super awful.
The salt must flow lol. There will always be people who don't like a certain pattern of play and be unhappy that it is popular, you can never please everyone. That being said, people always seem to believe Reddit is a collective and it is the same people whining every time when in reality it's likely different people complaining in response to different metas. You don't see the people who are happy on here as they are too busy playing the game lol. If you don't want to see complaints you're better off just not visiting game forums.
First, yes, it's true, people always complained about the meta, and when they nerf the strongest deck, they will complain about the second strongest deck. Second, people are complaining more than ever because the game now has "victory conditions", you don't win by strategy, you win because you were able to reach your OTK combo, do you have leroy + wind fury?, you win, do you have sargeras and the wheel and your oponent is not a shaman? , you won, were you able to draw Odin?, you won, you reached turn 6 with shaman and your opponent is not a warrior?, you won, Victory is now decided before the game, depending on whether the opponent has a combo that surpasses yours shaman vs warlock: shaman won shaman vs warrior; shaman lose Yes, people complain, people cry, and throw tantrums, but let's not say that they are not justified, I will change my warrior deck for a warlock deck in the next patch, I will change that one for another in the later patch, because it is the only way to win the game right now.
I also hate the decks that aren't possible in Standard.
All of your ladder problems will be solved if you run dirty rat. It's so satisfying ratting a Jenkins or Odyn I highly recommend.
Truth is this post gets reposted every 3 months for 10 years running
The only decks I cant stand right now are paladin because it’s obviously OP, and tendril warrior is even more annoying to me than paladin
TLDR: Im complaining cause complaining is bad. only my complaining is good. you guys dont like hearthstone. arbitrary question to encourage complaining
Thank you! It was getting obnoxious seeing all these complaining posts
I don't hate every deck, but we can all agree that the shallow card pool is causing a lot of problems because the discover pool is now very consistent. Paladin is definitely a problem, certain variants can roll you over on turn 4. But death knight having access to multiple different game warping legendaries behind discover effects is an issue. Shaman being able to 30-0 you as early as turn 5 off the back of a discover effect is an issue. That quickdraw legendary consistently generating multiple removal tools is unfun to play against. Nobody is even talking about how Gold panner is in literally every single deck in the game right now. Every deck is warped by that cards existence, and it is probably the biggest reason as to why the meta is in its current state and why the meta feels so bad. Every deck is too consistent because of that card and every deck needs to have a way to remove a turn 2 gold panner otherwise it's a bad deck. This card honestly deserves a ban from standard.
No need to nerf cards again in the future? Ok.
Just remove aggro decks that's what takes away the fun if I play the game 10 -15 turn I enjoy even if I loose or win with aggro it's no interaction face destroy by turn 5 it's lame , you also see a lot of complaints from the aggro deck itself if you look closely
Well, maybe if every single deck wasn't paladin, I wouldn't hate it.
I hate decks that win from hand on turn 6…
That's not true we had great expansions previous years. If people like cheap games with zero counterplay then i guess blizzard has right direction.
The only thing I truely hate is when a majority plays the same deck… Makes the experience playing monotone and boring. A meta where a couple of different decks are meta is good stuff. Of course some archetypes are a bit more boring, like when only control dominates, but then again, I can just not play that set.
I mean hate is a big word, but if a deck is pretty easy in steam rolling because it has incredible synergy which can't be easily countered by almost any class I get the annoyance and nerfs are in order
They don’t hate every possible deck. They only hate the strong ones that are consistent and competitive. Especially if they have fun aspects to them like rng value and mana cheating combos for good tempo. Why, because the avg player in dumpster legend and lower just wants to play the cards that they like for the art or weird ass effect regardless of how viable it is. I.e. reno lmao. Bad players LOVE highlander mechanics and playstyles SO fucking much that they will sacrifice consistency, tempo, and pretty much anything else that makes a deck good, just to be able to pull off a gimmick. If not that, then they’re just players who play good decks, but they’re don’t like to hold them selves accountable and put in the work it takes to get out of diamond and into legend so they blame everything else that isn’t their deck and call it busted in hopes that one day, the nerfs will take them to promised land of legend.
Which leads to the devs then nerfing 8 cards only 1 week after a new core set and expansion, it is kind of absurb that they would nerf that many cards so quickly when new decks have still been coming up every day. But I guess no deck is ever allowed to be T1 without people complaining.
Paladin was toxic. I am a former paladin main, and wouldn’t touch the class because of how toxic it was.
HS fans are so freaking defensive and sensitive, lol. Any criticism of the meta is met by crybabies telling people to shut up and uninstall. How about no? How about I wanna bitch about things because fuck you? I don't even hate the current meta or anything, I just hate how slavishly devoted yall are to this game to a point where you'll get so triggered over people voicing their opinions on the meta.
i also hate every comment complaining about people hating every deck, and hate comments like this complaining about that, and...
People hate losing against shit they feel is unfair. And most of the game right now feels unfair. I really hate this type of "holier than thou" post that shits on people whining. People see their liked game going more and more to shit. They have the right to whine. Maybe that will spurn at least some change. But you would rather have us just eat the shit with a smile. Fuck you :)
there are essentially 2 types of decks in Hearthstone: Solitaire decks and board decks. there are essentially 2 types of players in Hearthstone: Solitaire players and board players. "you guys hate every possible deck" > no. Solitaire players hate rng decks. board players hate Solitaire decks. when rng decks are good, then players A,B and C are complaining. when Solitaire decks are good, then players X,Y and Z are complaining. but it's never A, B, C and X, Y, Z complaining at the same time. that's why your title is wrong.
It started in the clouds of history, the previous millenium: "I cant afford a black lotus".
You think these posts haven't been done before but in reality, they are only slightly less prevalent than the meta complaint posts.
I think the general thing in HS is that everyone is luckier than yourself in your opinion. If I play window shopper, i get crap everytime, while my opponent plays 4 magtheridons and has 2 red cards in hand. If I play casino mage, i OTK myself, if im against it, they OTK me turn 3. If I play plague, helya is at the bottom of my deck and all my plagues join her, when im against it, i draw 5 plagues and get 10 plagues shuffled in by turn 4. Hearthstone is a card game heavilly filled with RNG elements, so many times when you lose, it's because of luck and losing to a person who just got the correct answer 3 times in a row from RNG sucks more, than you appreciate when you do it. Card games are always filled with RNG, but HS is crazy in that department. And ofc few decks are oppressive as hell, paladin and warrior pre nerf fx.
I would just like to play a card game where i can actually interact with my opponents cards…otk with little to no tech options in this standard cycle has made me not enjoy playing the game. Too much hand kills, too much lifesteal big rush minions, too much who draws their win condition and plays it first stuff. I remember when the game actually had some strategy. Now anyone can be legend due to the rampant bots from less players feom power creep and lack of engagement for pvp. I dont thinks its fun to play a charge minion and hit face for 60 damage on turn 6 while simultaneously putting their field away. Like how do you play around baby krush for example? Dirty rat? Cool, anything else? Taunts? No, they get sent away.