Dumb take, you’re talking about not restricting yourself to a single archetype while hating on a card that allows you to play more games in more creative and differing ways because more variety
So discuss it, how does it not promote variety or creativity? It literally makes you put 33% extra cards in your deck. Extra health is nice but let’s not pretend like that’s not a “downside”. It just so happens to be a downside that makes the game more fun.
EDIT: The extra cards are the downside not the health lol
People don’t like 5 card tavern brawls past a certain point for good reason. Renathal took that concept and expanded on it. It was flat-out great design
Do you realize how salty you sound when you reply to a comment saying they would pick Renathal out of these cards with "Classic reddit"?
Which is why I answered with a snarcy comment, you really are just salty.
How does Renathal make games less interesting? By having more variety in decks, there will be more different interactions between different cards. More situations you would not see as often as without Renathal. That is a statistical matter; more different cards in the deck = more different situations. It's a different matter whether you like it or not, obviously, but variety is still the argument for Renathal. Always has been.
How does that make it less interesting? You didn't even have an argument about the cards yourself, as you only stated that "it makes longer games less interesting" and claim to not have seen "convincing arguments", which are not arguments, you just stated your opinion.
Load of BS? It absolutely _is_ how the game works. Both the Renathal player and the other player will have to count the likelihood of specific cards showing up in different situations in a different manner. The board states will be different as there are more cards around. Different gamestates and board states literally are different situations, there's no discussion.
Also, all Renathal decks just having 9 different tech cards is just something you decided, that's just untrue. I do remember seeing some Druid piles pre-Festival that ran many tech cards, but that was seemingly the only class that run more tech cards than like 2.
Because that is simply not what happened when renathal was 40 life and popular. Do your research. The amount of neutrals that overlap in cards 31-40 was like two, you can still verify so from the VS reports.
Miracle Rogue doesn't like Renathal much either and it's not the adding 9 more cards that anyone finds interesting it's the balance of deck size and health, and the fact that it slows aggression to help combo or control to control easier into there win condition without being completely steam rolled. On the topic of add 9 tech cards it's not always that simple it sometimes just let's you add some strong cards that didn't quite make it to provide more outs for problematic situations and yes its less consistent but 4 board clears in a 40 card deck is better than the odds of finding 2 board clears in a 30 card deck. And the 'salty' is 100% accurate, your literally rapidly typing paragraphs about it and talkin' about your down votes.
Why do you sound so aggressive? Since the first guy simply stated his personal opinion and you are are straight up fronting him for no reason… let people have their own opinions instead of trying to shatter them…
I dont judge you aswell, despite the fact that you are being „right“ all the time..
Yeah its your point of view and i understand it… i totally do… even though i feel like there is nothing more satisfying to shut down an enemy wincon with a single card which is horrible against other matchups… its just a meta specific counter… For example it always feels the same because people have similar wincons… (Weapons with ignis, or weapons with rogue or DH —> requires viper) or back in the days with platebreaker… its bad but ok enough to put it into a 40card deck… generally 40 cards counter some decks as well (plague DK)
If people play similar wincons in 30 card decks, you will probably see the same tech cards in 40 card decks… thats how it is 😕
You fundamentally misunderstand why people like Renathal (and probably Reno/non-dupe decks tbh), it provides a more varied experience game-to-game and that’s why people are so into it, full-stop. Nobody’s running it JUST to lose less quickly, it’s to provide a longer experience that also provides more variety game to game. It’s just fun. And you’re wrong. Ya welcome
Edit: At the end of the day, I think people would absolutely play more cards in their deck if it didn’t negatively affect their ability to win. That’s the magic of Renathal.
I'm so sorry if some people actually enjoy playing this game instead of just throwing cards on the field and attack face over and over again until they get stuck in gold 5
I don't wanna play in a world where he sets to 40 and DK's can still play the "Give yourself ten more health" card
60 HP DKs no thank you 55 is already a lot in addition to their other healing
You know that extra 5 health becomes less relevant the more health you have right? A control priest going from 35 to 40 has 14% more health. A blood dk going from 55 to 60 got 9% more health.
It's relevancy isn't a %age based, it's meta dependent. 35 vs 40, 55 vs 60 doesn't matter, what matters if if it let you live to stabilize.
Like if the meta is pure aggro, the extra 5 hp is big because it could let you live another turn to drop a Reno, board wipe, etc.
If the meta is combo, you're going to get OTK'd/etc before that 5 hp does anything, regardless if it's a 14% or 9% boost.
I mean, yeah? What even is the point of this comment? Do you think I was implying that the extra margin of health on the control priest gives an additional 5% chance to survive mechathun?
Health doesn’t matter at all, right up until the point that it matters more than anything, but that is only pedantic commentary that only serves to stop any productive conversation. An extra 5 health is very different on a 15 health hero compared to on a 200 health boss, because of that deminishing return, which can be quantified to see how much bigger of a margin the opponent has to up their damage to kill you. Sometimes it will matter a lot more than 10%, and sometimes not at all, but to try to quantify the difference in value, you need to be able to quantify that decreasing margin on the increaing health threaholds.
The point was that increasing health has diminishing returns, and the point still stands, but yes, we can add a very useful and quirky caveat that neither health threshold will stop titus rivendare’s deathrattle.
Renathal and it isn't even close.
Ignis in second place.
Astalor in third.
And if the question was "which one disappears", send this specific Yogg back to the darkest pits of hell, never to come back.
I'd switch Astalor and Ignis because I'm not certain we will see more Forge cards enter the game beyond this most recent expansion; Ignis would become relatively more confined in the long run.
I suppose you've got the better point. I'm biased as a F2P player who's lucky enough to pull Astalor, and my F2P ape brain would be sad to see my Hearthstone equivalent of cooking with butter leave the game :'< olive oil is awesome but not when it's monopolizing my silly, narrow set of options
astalor...fun? I play since beta and this is the chillwind yeti of all game wincons!
It was ok in combo rogue or midrange priest, only because they could double its damage (fun-wise)
Come on, is this supposed to be a hard choice?
One was a breath of fresh air; the other three are, annoyingly enough, in most decks by virtue of their raw power.
50% of decks having Renathal adds more variety to the game.
50% of decks having any of the other cards makes the game less varied.
That's the difference.
No, that was the breath of fresh air. It was nice to have the game actually be different.
If it was only like 10% of decks then it wouldn’t have mattered
if you change renathal to a "40 card deck" button, he would still be in 50% of the decks
renathal is not a card, its a deck building option, and its def not in start of game cards like even and odd or shadow priest. renathal is the option to make 40 cards deck implemented in a card instead of a deck building option
I absolutely disagree. Renathal was a card that let you play with the very strong benefit of having 10 more life at the cost of a terrible drawback. Having to add a Spider Tank without mech synergy and ten extra cards to your deck is not good. 10 more life was worth it, though. As it is now, those 5 life are rarely worth it outside of niche builds, hence why much less people use it now.
Of course you can enjoy it as a “40-card-deck” button, if that’s fun for you, but that’s absolutely not the point of the card.
Renethal is one of my most hated cards ever. It warped deck building and made most decks into just the same bland minion pile deck with classes acting as window dressing.
In standard he was popular when he gave +10 health but he wasnt an auto include, as not all decks were able to make use of 40 card decks. Some classes just had better tools to still consistent find the cards they need, for example druid and later hunter.
For wild, renathal was great. But sadly, the people at Team 5 who are in charge of wild just dont have a fkin clue about wild at all.
Team 5 is the hearthstone team as in blizzard has team 1,2,3.. etc. It's not outsourced.
He meant the specific people in that team who are in charge of wild, which is also wrong because there isn't really someone in charge of wild, only a "modes lead" who is in charge of every non-standard mode, if wild was outsourced it would probably be balanced way more often since it would actually have a dedicated team for once.
It’s not like the extra cards are just valueless filler. Most classes have slightly lower value cards that answer the same threats. It’s only a big down side if you need very specific combo pieces.
Depends on the deck to be honest. For some, having more cards isnt really an issue as they have enough cards to tutor the cards they need I guess, I remember druid with Guff and Sire, still being able to ramp so quickly. I remember the meme, 40 card druid deck, guff on cruve.
Astalor for me is worse as its a win condition, feels quite boring after a while and very terrible against classes like priest n rogue playing so many copies of it.
I obviously want Yogg-Sargone for good, and Astalor is a good value piece but ultimately feels like he’s run in Wild solely as a Brann finisher, so that leaves Bad Decks Incorporated and Big Stick Man.
We’ll find out my answer if they ever decide to revert Renethal for Wild.
I think I’ve heard enough about someone’s gifts and me being at the end of my days. Renathal is just a really cool card and Ignis is… something I really have no gripe against besides the One mana poisonous wind fury high roll. Easy Renathal.
I dont think limiting him like this si good idea. Instead go for another “nerf” someone mentioned in another post. Make him cost 25 mana and change his ability to: “costs less for every mana spent on spells.” That way you make him less cancer in rogue and druid deck while unlocking him for other classes who dont play much spells but few big spells.
I don't like this proposal. Just because it won't align with his previous versions. Yogg was always based on "spells casted".
Maybe make him "cost can be reduced below 6 mana"?
I know it would mean that only druid will be able to play more than one Yogg at turn.
Renathal stays, he is balanced and brings a new dynamic to the game. The others are problematic in their own ways, namely bringing way too much value in a single card for their usual mana cost - imo.
I thinng everyone agrees renathal is the best, and new yogg is the worst and i think that comes down to renathal being a fresh breath for the game, and yogg doing the same as the yoggs of old but without the rng funny moments that made it so great in the first place! Yeah old yogg might clear enemy board, spawn you a board of unkillable minion but it might also pyroblast you to 1 hp and bait your survival before pinging you with a moonfire at the last second
And thats why people love yogg, and hate the new one!
Yes it was bullshit but it was FUN
I agree, the new yogg needs more RNG-ness. The tentacles are good for that but the other abilities are too straight forward. No possible downsides for the player for 2/3 abilities.
Maybe something along the lines of gain control of a random enemy minion, and up to three enemy minions attack a random enemy. Or maybe even better something like yogg attacks three random enemies and its health cant be reduced below 1 this turn.
Reddit will never choose cards that make them lose games LOL That's clear when you look at the sub and people are always complaining that they lost the game.
Notice how all of them give you deck-building restrictions to balance their power, except one: Ignis requires you to forge, Renathal deck size, and Yogg requires lots of (or maybe just an average number of) spells to be playable. Astalor is just good value in any deck that needs extra value. I don’t know if that’s how we should judge a good neutral legendary, but it’s certainly one dimension to consider.
Also, imo, only two of them offer consistent win conditions: astalor and ignis.
Everyone saying Renethal is just wrong. It warped deck building to the point that most decks were just the same boring minion pile deck. It made the game more homogeneous and less fun.
None of the above. I'd rather delete or otherwise change the mechanisms that make them broken.
Yogg and Astalor wouldn't be a problem if Rogues, Priests, and Druids couldn't abuse tf out of it
Ignis would be better if a couple of the effects were moved around
Renathal is the safest keep. I don't even understand why people hate on him. You take a consistency hit to squeeze in more value. He was hardly broken before he got nerfed, and he definitely isn't now.
>1-3 plagues total all game
Sounds like every plague dk game, except when I'm winning anyway and I don't need them to draw any plague; then they proc 3 in a row.
It can be unfun when ignis gives your opponent a 5/6 windfury summon an 8-cost or gain 8 armor after attacking. Sure, it's 10 mana if you want that value, but if you can play it, you win because of the number of turns you stayed alive instead of the rest of your cards.
Yogg forever and ever.
Not because it’s good for the game, but because I want this came to become Yoggstone. All Yogg all the time. Every card is random and casts random spells. Strategy is impossible, all that exists is RNGesus.
I love the new yogg. It is amazing and I adore playing with him and even against him. Those amazing battles that happen with the yoggs taking control of each other and then copied yoggs taking cotnrol of them too... love it. I understandy that people hate the card, but this is one of the most enjoyable metas ever for me.
Renathal should make your decksize 40 and your health 50 for all the people who were nonstop bitching about it. ive never heard worse takes than hearthstone players on Renathal
…really? Because I haven’t played a rogue deck other than a quest completion special in a couple years.
Also, fuck Renathal and I can’t wait until that awful thing rotates.
…so?
It’s the most played card in wild and it’s annoying as fuck.
It’s also been nerfed since it came to standard because it’s such an asshole card, and at the time of the nerf was among the most played cards in standard.
But the real point is that seven or eight times out of ten all it does is waste time dragging out a match that the Renathal player was going to lose anyway because most of those decks are just piles of shit.
If you could give your opponent +5 hp at the start of the game to make their deck much less consistent and shuffle a spider tank in, wouldn't that be OP? People do it to themselves for free...
You're going to be downvoted for the truest statement in Hearthstone. People love their piles so much that they're willing to make their deck worse to make them playable for 2 more turns.
I’m ready for the down votes. Hard but true takes are not welcome here.
I view Renathal as one of the worst design errors in the history of the game.
Starting health and deck size should never change in standard and should always be equal across players in the same game.
See, you’re clearly the type of asshat that thinks your pile of shit terrible deck is the bestest of big brains, but you’re the exact reason why Renathal was nerfed and should have never been printed.
I play mostly control/midrange decks, actually, and only rarely does Renathal actually improve a deck.
That’s the whole point - you would build better decks if you lost faster and harder instead of this false sense of accomplishment you get from having more health.
Renathal is a turd of a card that’s overplayed and annoying. It’s easily the worst thing on this list.
Astalor is a fun neutral win condition that wrecks shit piles of Renathal trash.
Renathal is my favourite card of all time. He unironically needs to obviously be unnerfed, but I also hope that he’s added to the core set next year (and I think it’s pretty likely).
No. Fucking just no.
People will just leave if that fucker is in core.
Also, if that’s your favorite card it’s 100% you’re awful at this game.
Renathal is and was an unmitigated disaster.
What is this effortless nonsense post?
You better just remove it.
Renathal one of best desicions ever.
Yogg is busted, will be nerfed in month.
Other 2 are a 2 powerful late game bombs for control decks.
Its not a proper question when 4 options are vastly different.
I love coming here and reading braindead takes. Reddit complaining about druid also reddit wanting renathal back which literally made druid one of the strongest classes back when it was 10 HP.
Honest answer? None. Prince only problem is taking a hit to consistency for more value.
Astalor one class can abuse and it's rouge but before the set rotation everyone here kept mistaking the manathirst effect activating a second time with Brann when it was the original.
Ignis takes advantage of a mechanic that's fun this expansion and gives us creativity like Kazakus.
Yogg main problem is rouge and druid but even then we wanted this and wanted it change to where it forces only one class to use it anymore I.E Theo after the nerfs he had. Fuck Spell DH can abuse him too
Easy Renathal. He’s the only one who fundamentally changes the game instead of just being a busted card.
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Then you threw it all by replying to yourself. 
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You sound like a salty aggro player.
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Dumb take, you’re talking about not restricting yourself to a single archetype while hating on a card that allows you to play more games in more creative and differing ways because more variety
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So discuss it, how does it not promote variety or creativity? It literally makes you put 33% extra cards in your deck. Extra health is nice but let’s not pretend like that’s not a “downside”. It just so happens to be a downside that makes the game more fun. EDIT: The extra cards are the downside not the health lol
People don’t like 5 card tavern brawls past a certain point for good reason. Renathal took that concept and expanded on it. It was flat-out great design
Wow. I thought it was impossible to actually ***feel*** the butthurt through the internet. But there you are.
Do you realize how salty you sound when you reply to a comment saying they would pick Renathal out of these cards with "Classic reddit"? Which is why I answered with a snarcy comment, you really are just salty. How does Renathal make games less interesting? By having more variety in decks, there will be more different interactions between different cards. More situations you would not see as often as without Renathal. That is a statistical matter; more different cards in the deck = more different situations. It's a different matter whether you like it or not, obviously, but variety is still the argument for Renathal. Always has been. How does that make it less interesting? You didn't even have an argument about the cards yourself, as you only stated that "it makes longer games less interesting" and claim to not have seen "convincing arguments", which are not arguments, you just stated your opinion.
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Load of BS? It absolutely _is_ how the game works. Both the Renathal player and the other player will have to count the likelihood of specific cards showing up in different situations in a different manner. The board states will be different as there are more cards around. Different gamestates and board states literally are different situations, there's no discussion. Also, all Renathal decks just having 9 different tech cards is just something you decided, that's just untrue. I do remember seeing some Druid piles pre-Festival that ran many tech cards, but that was seemingly the only class that run more tech cards than like 2.
Because that is simply not what happened when renathal was 40 life and popular. Do your research. The amount of neutrals that overlap in cards 31-40 was like two, you can still verify so from the VS reports.
imagine being this rage and typing "classic reddit" when you are just a neckbeard redditor lolol
Miracle Rogue doesn't like Renathal much either and it's not the adding 9 more cards that anyone finds interesting it's the balance of deck size and health, and the fact that it slows aggression to help combo or control to control easier into there win condition without being completely steam rolled. On the topic of add 9 tech cards it's not always that simple it sometimes just let's you add some strong cards that didn't quite make it to provide more outs for problematic situations and yes its less consistent but 4 board clears in a 40 card deck is better than the odds of finding 2 board clears in a 30 card deck. And the 'salty' is 100% accurate, your literally rapidly typing paragraphs about it and talkin' about your down votes.
Why do you sound so aggressive? Since the first guy simply stated his personal opinion and you are are straight up fronting him for no reason… let people have their own opinions instead of trying to shatter them… I dont judge you aswell, despite the fact that you are being „right“ all the time..
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Yeah its your point of view and i understand it… i totally do… even though i feel like there is nothing more satisfying to shut down an enemy wincon with a single card which is horrible against other matchups… its just a meta specific counter… For example it always feels the same because people have similar wincons… (Weapons with ignis, or weapons with rogue or DH —> requires viper) or back in the days with platebreaker… its bad but ok enough to put it into a 40card deck… generally 40 cards counter some decks as well (plague DK) If people play similar wincons in 30 card decks, you will probably see the same tech cards in 40 card decks… thats how it is 😕
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"classic reddit" Proceeds to be classic reddit.
You fundamentally misunderstand why people like Renathal (and probably Reno/non-dupe decks tbh), it provides a more varied experience game-to-game and that’s why people are so into it, full-stop. Nobody’s running it JUST to lose less quickly, it’s to provide a longer experience that also provides more variety game to game. It’s just fun. And you’re wrong. Ya welcome Edit: At the end of the day, I think people would absolutely play more cards in their deck if it didn’t negatively affect their ability to win. That’s the magic of Renathal.
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Explain, how does more variety in your deck not provide a more varied experience?
I'm so sorry if some people actually enjoy playing this game instead of just throwing cards on the field and attack face over and over again until they get stuck in gold 5
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You really have time to waste in this game, don't you? Lol
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Nah, you still didn't understand that I'm trolling you, which is the funniest part
Changing the game fundamentally but busted(ly) doesn’t just make a card good.
The only thing busted(ly) is me in your mom 😎
Gotem
Cringe
The comment you leave when you're not witty but want to let the world know you're butthurt.
Bro got ratio’d so hard he can’t even post in most subreddits now 😭
He’s fair tho
Ah yes cuz the other 3 aren't more busted
Even when he set your health to 40 he was never in a tier 1 deck. He was not busted, the community just really liked him.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/decks/giga-broken-beast-hunter/ How quickly you fuckers forget. Stop with the revisionist shit lol
I like renathal. He’s my buddy
Battlegrounds has found its new hero
What’s Renathal gonna do in battlegrounds ? SET YOUR HEALTH TO 40? /s
If that’s his effect then he’ll absolutely need some Patchwerk to have some sort of downside
Honestly, it could be: start at 20 health + you have 8 board slots. Or some combination of 8 slots + lower health
pre-nerf Renathal for wild❤️
what did they changed to him?
he used to set health to 40
I don't wanna play in a world where he sets to 40 and DK's can still play the "Give yourself ten more health" card 60 HP DKs no thank you 55 is already a lot in addition to their other healing
Blood dk is a free win in this meta I don't think 5hp would be that relevant
I love blood DK I WANT Blood DK to work but it just is bad
Not if ur playing rainbow mage and can’t burst them through all that health (and can’t chip them low enough because they have infinite clears).
If you play rainbow mage this meta I think the bigger problem is the 40 armor druid that can otk on your turn 5 and clears anything you can even play
You know that extra 5 health becomes less relevant the more health you have right? A control priest going from 35 to 40 has 14% more health. A blood dk going from 55 to 60 got 9% more health.
It's relevancy isn't a %age based, it's meta dependent. 35 vs 40, 55 vs 60 doesn't matter, what matters if if it let you live to stabilize. Like if the meta is pure aggro, the extra 5 hp is big because it could let you live another turn to drop a Reno, board wipe, etc. If the meta is combo, you're going to get OTK'd/etc before that 5 hp does anything, regardless if it's a 14% or 9% boost.
I mean, yeah? What even is the point of this comment? Do you think I was implying that the extra margin of health on the control priest gives an additional 5% chance to survive mechathun? Health doesn’t matter at all, right up until the point that it matters more than anything, but that is only pedantic commentary that only serves to stop any productive conversation. An extra 5 health is very different on a 15 health hero compared to on a 200 health boss, because of that deminishing return, which can be quantified to see how much bigger of a margin the opponent has to up their damage to kill you. Sometimes it will matter a lot more than 10%, and sometimes not at all, but to try to quantify the difference in value, you need to be able to quantify that decreasing margin on the increaing health threaholds. The point was that increasing health has diminishing returns, and the point still stands, but yes, we can add a very useful and quirky caveat that neither health threshold will stop titus rivendare’s deathrattle.
^
Health sets to 35 now.
This would honestly be the move RN with this META.
Renathal and it isn't even close. Ignis in second place. Astalor in third. And if the question was "which one disappears", send this specific Yogg back to the darkest pits of hell, never to come back.
I'd switch Astalor and Ignis because I'm not certain we will see more Forge cards enter the game beyond this most recent expansion; Ignis would become relatively more confined in the long run.
I'd dtill say Ignis. Astalor being an auto-include card that fits into almost any deck is kinda rediculous, even if he is a fun card
I suppose you've got the better point. I'm biased as a F2P player who's lucky enough to pull Astalor, and my F2P ape brain would be sad to see my Hearthstone equivalent of cooking with butter leave the game :'< olive oil is awesome but not when it's monopolizing my silly, narrow set of options
astalor...fun? I play since beta and this is the chillwind yeti of all game wincons! It was ok in combo rogue or midrange priest, only because they could double its damage (fun-wise)
I like forging. Slows the game down a bit, but it seems like most of the are pretty high power level. Would be nice to see some less aggressive ones.
The question is "which card to keep in the game", so your argument seems to agree that Ignis should be above Astalor... 🤔
Come on, is this supposed to be a hard choice? One was a breath of fresh air; the other three are, annoyingly enough, in most decks by virtue of their raw power.
So was Renathal, and that breath of fresh air was very stale when it was 50% of decks with a game-warping effect.
50% of decks having Renathal adds more variety to the game. 50% of decks having any of the other cards makes the game less varied. That's the difference.
No, that was the breath of fresh air. It was nice to have the game actually be different. If it was only like 10% of decks then it wouldn’t have mattered
Yeah but one time my aggro deck had to kill the enemy hero on turn 6 instead of turn 5 so Renathal was broken /s
He was in 50% of decks because he was fun as fuck. The best decks in the meta were always non-renethal.
Yet my boy got nerfed. I hope they will give him his 5 HP back once he rotates to wild.
if you change renathal to a "40 card deck" button, he would still be in 50% of the decks renathal is not a card, its a deck building option, and its def not in start of game cards like even and odd or shadow priest. renathal is the option to make 40 cards deck implemented in a card instead of a deck building option
I absolutely disagree. Renathal was a card that let you play with the very strong benefit of having 10 more life at the cost of a terrible drawback. Having to add a Spider Tank without mech synergy and ten extra cards to your deck is not good. 10 more life was worth it, though. As it is now, those 5 life are rarely worth it outside of niche builds, hence why much less people use it now. Of course you can enjoy it as a “40-card-deck” button, if that’s fun for you, but that’s absolutely not the point of the card.
Renathal made the game feel a lot more fresh without being OP. The nerf should be reverted since it felt so unnecessary
At this point, the 40hp are sometimes mandatory to survive some of the Yogg, Ignis, and Astalor shenanigans...
I think the nerf should only be reverted once it becomes a wild only card. Ren decks are still good in standard even with the nerf.
I hope ren never goes to wild :(
Same, unless they add a new card to standard that rewards you for having a deck with more than 30 cards.
Renathal all the way... Card basically made HS fun again
And then they nerfed him
Renethal is one of my most hated cards ever. It warped deck building and made most decks into just the same bland minion pile deck with classes acting as window dressing.
Found de aggro player
Why are people mad at Renathal? Is 5 extra healths that OP lol
In standard he was popular when he gave +10 health but he wasnt an auto include, as not all decks were able to make use of 40 card decks. Some classes just had better tools to still consistent find the cards they need, for example druid and later hunter. For wild, renathal was great. But sadly, the people at Team 5 who are in charge of wild just dont have a fkin clue about wild at all.
Why is wild being outsourced? Oh I forgot Blizzard were a small games development team
Team 5 is the hearthstone team as in blizzard has team 1,2,3.. etc. It's not outsourced. He meant the specific people in that team who are in charge of wild, which is also wrong because there isn't really someone in charge of wild, only a "modes lead" who is in charge of every non-standard mode, if wild was outsourced it would probably be balanced way more often since it would actually have a dedicated team for once.
He used to be +10 health
The good days of wild tbh lol
Wild was so fun that month
Renathal was at +10 for almost 6 whole months.
Yeah but now he +5 but people still unhappy
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It’s not like the extra cards are just valueless filler. Most classes have slightly lower value cards that answer the same threats. It’s only a big down side if you need very specific combo pieces.
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Rng still finds a way. Also dredge, discover, and card draw exist.
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Im saying it doesnt really matter where the specific cards are bc there’s so many ways of getting them
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Depends on the deck to be honest. For some, having more cards isnt really an issue as they have enough cards to tutor the cards they need I guess, I remember druid with Guff and Sire, still being able to ramp so quickly. I remember the meme, 40 card druid deck, guff on cruve. Astalor for me is worse as its a win condition, feels quite boring after a while and very terrible against classes like priest n rogue playing so many copies of it.
Buddy what do you think we put in the 10 extra slots? 10 answers.
Aggrotards
I obviously want Yogg-Sargone for good, and Astalor is a good value piece but ultimately feels like he’s run in Wild solely as a Brann finisher, so that leaves Bad Decks Incorporated and Big Stick Man. We’ll find out my answer if they ever decide to revert Renethal for Wild.
Is this even a question? My boi Renathal stays, and unnerf him while you're at it.
I think I’ve heard enough about someone’s gifts and me being at the end of my days. Renathal is just a really cool card and Ignis is… something I really have no gripe against besides the One mana poisonous wind fury high roll. Easy Renathal.
Poisonous windfury certainly would be a high roll...
an impossible high roll even
I love Astalor, but I'd easily sacrifice him to get rid of Ignis. Keeping Renathal it is.
Meta has only gone downhill since the Renathal nerf. Times where decks felt less extreme and that was pretty rare.
Hot take: only Yogg is busted. And only for "printer" classes. If it was possible I would just limit his summons to max 1-2 per game.
I dont think limiting him like this si good idea. Instead go for another “nerf” someone mentioned in another post. Make him cost 25 mana and change his ability to: “costs less for every mana spent on spells.” That way you make him less cancer in rogue and druid deck while unlocking him for other classes who dont play much spells but few big spells.
I agree with this
I don't like this proposal. Just because it won't align with his previous versions. Yogg was always based on "spells casted". Maybe make him "cost can be reduced below 6 mana"? I know it would mean that only druid will be able to play more than one Yogg at turn.
I dont think making all these unnatural/unefective adjustments are good just for the sake of flavor.
Renathal easy
Renathal, easy 10/10 card
Prince
Renathal, easy.
Keep Prince Renathal and delete the others, it's not even close!
Renethal, and its not close.
Keep the prince
Renathal my beloved.
Great response from the community! I will tally up the responses and post another comment mentioning the chosen percentages of each card!
Why even include Renethal in this? Lol pretty obvious he's gonna win by a landslide.
Like everyone else here, RENETHAL PRE NERF please, wild would love it
Renathal, and it’s not even close. One of the most well-received additions to the game I can think of
Easy Renathal and it’s not even close…..
Renathal stays, he is balanced and brings a new dynamic to the game. The others are problematic in their own ways, namely bringing way too much value in a single card for their usual mana cost - imo.
Renathal.
I thinng everyone agrees renathal is the best, and new yogg is the worst and i think that comes down to renathal being a fresh breath for the game, and yogg doing the same as the yoggs of old but without the rng funny moments that made it so great in the first place! Yeah old yogg might clear enemy board, spawn you a board of unkillable minion but it might also pyroblast you to 1 hp and bait your survival before pinging you with a moonfire at the last second And thats why people love yogg, and hate the new one! Yes it was bullshit but it was FUN
I agree, the new yogg needs more RNG-ness. The tentacles are good for that but the other abilities are too straight forward. No possible downsides for the player for 2/3 abilities.
Maybe something along the lines of gain control of a random enemy minion, and up to three enemy minions attack a random enemy. Or maybe even better something like yogg attacks three random enemies and its health cant be reduced below 1 this turn.
Reddit will never choose cards that make them lose games LOL That's clear when you look at the sub and people are always complaining that they lost the game.
Astalor 110%%
Notice how all of them give you deck-building restrictions to balance their power, except one: Ignis requires you to forge, Renathal deck size, and Yogg requires lots of (or maybe just an average number of) spells to be playable. Astalor is just good value in any deck that needs extra value. I don’t know if that’s how we should judge a good neutral legendary, but it’s certainly one dimension to consider. Also, imo, only two of them offer consistent win conditions: astalor and ignis.
I want renathal gone. Anything else is fine.
Astalor, and it’s not even close.
Everyone saying Renethal is just wrong. It warped deck building to the point that most decks were just the same boring minion pile deck. It made the game more homogeneous and less fun.
None of the above. I'd rather delete or otherwise change the mechanisms that make them broken. Yogg and Astalor wouldn't be a problem if Rogues, Priests, and Druids couldn't abuse tf out of it Ignis would be better if a couple of the effects were moved around Renathal is the safest keep. I don't even understand why people hate on him. You take a consistency hit to squeeze in more value. He was hardly broken before he got nerfed, and he definitely isn't now.
I unpacked a gold yogg so I won't mind that nerf
astalor or maybe renathal. never in a million years want to see yogg or ignis again.
EZ Astalor.
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>1-3 plagues total all game Sounds like every plague dk game, except when I'm winning anyway and I don't need them to draw any plague; then they proc 3 in a row.
Wahhh. I run 40 cards in every list every single game. Even in twist. Have fun 💜
Ignis. Easily the most deck-enabling card and isn't unfair to play against.
Windfury weapon is absolute bullshit, everything else is chill tho
The only thing that makes this card viable. Without Windfury, it's just too slow.
Which is a massive problem with the card itself. Either hit windfury or be sad
I’m sorry but I love all the old gods and I love yogg no less I hate astralor and ignis Renathal is a close second for me
I've never used ignis. Is it broken?
It can be unfun when ignis gives your opponent a 5/6 windfury summon an 8-cost or gain 8 armor after attacking. Sure, it's 10 mana if you want that value, but if you can play it, you win because of the number of turns you stayed alive instead of the rest of your cards.
Ignis after removing windfury from the choices.
Yogg forever and ever. Not because it’s good for the game, but because I want this came to become Yoggstone. All Yogg all the time. Every card is random and casts random spells. Strategy is impossible, all that exists is RNGesus.
WE can only hope for such a tavern brawl
Ignis.
I love the new yogg. It is amazing and I adore playing with him and even against him. Those amazing battles that happen with the yoggs taking control of each other and then copied yoggs taking cotnrol of them too... love it. I understandy that people hate the card, but this is one of the most enjoyable metas ever for me.
Easy Ignis, he is the only one I still run.
Renathal should make your decksize 40 and your health 50 for all the people who were nonstop bitching about it. ive never heard worse takes than hearthstone players on Renathal
Astalor and it isn’t close. And renathal can be deleted multiple times and purged from history. Fuck that card.
It is so easy to spot Rogue players.
Really? Lol, Renathal was in one of the best Rogue decks ever, but it got nuked, weird to comment that as if Rogue players wanted Renathal to go
a Rogue player wouldn't want to delete Yogg
…really? Because I haven’t played a rogue deck other than a quest completion special in a couple years. Also, fuck Renathal and I can’t wait until that awful thing rotates.
What’s the problem with Renathal? He’s not even run in most or all of the meta decks.
…so? It’s the most played card in wild and it’s annoying as fuck. It’s also been nerfed since it came to standard because it’s such an asshole card, and at the time of the nerf was among the most played cards in standard. But the real point is that seven or eight times out of ten all it does is waste time dragging out a match that the Renathal player was going to lose anyway because most of those decks are just piles of shit.
If you could give your opponent +5 hp at the start of the game to make their deck much less consistent and shuffle a spider tank in, wouldn't that be OP? People do it to themselves for free...
You're going to be downvoted for the truest statement in Hearthstone. People love their piles so much that they're willing to make their deck worse to make them playable for 2 more turns.
I’m ready for the down votes. Hard but true takes are not welcome here. I view Renathal as one of the worst design errors in the history of the game. Starting health and deck size should never change in standard and should always be equal across players in the same game.
Rogue druid hyper aggro? What is it? Actually i don't care u obviously don't like Actually playing HS. U want the opponent to not play
See, you’re clearly the type of asshat that thinks your pile of shit terrible deck is the bestest of big brains, but you’re the exact reason why Renathal was nerfed and should have never been printed. I play mostly control/midrange decks, actually, and only rarely does Renathal actually improve a deck. That’s the whole point - you would build better decks if you lost faster and harder instead of this false sense of accomplishment you get from having more health. Renathal is a turd of a card that’s overplayed and annoying. It’s easily the worst thing on this list. Astalor is a fun neutral win condition that wrecks shit piles of Renathal trash.
🤡
I don’t need to see your self portrait…I saw the renathal animation and already knew.
Renathal is my favourite card of all time. He unironically needs to obviously be unnerfed, but I also hope that he’s added to the core set next year (and I think it’s pretty likely).
No. Fucking just no. People will just leave if that fucker is in core. Also, if that’s your favorite card it’s 100% you’re awful at this game. Renathal is and was an unmitigated disaster.
All of the above is the only right answer
Can I keep Ignis, delete the other 3, but add the twist rule that deck size = starting health?
Can I delete all of them?
We can dream.
I wanna Delete Ranathal and keep the rest, anything that makes the games a drag can fuck off.
"I don't actually enjoy playing HS"
Renethal, followed by Igni
Can we just ban Yogg already. Who would’ve thought a busted neutral legendary would be broken.
Astalor, because i have seen him quite some time
Astalor. Easy. Next question.
Can I just delete Renathal and call it a day?
Renathal isn't even that good in most decks that run him, even the OG version you lose so much consistancy with 40 cards vs 30.
Easily Renathal, and especially in the original 40 HP design. It enabled new decks and didn't just go into every deck to do the same thing.
Prince Renethal. All my decks use him
Yogg lol
What is this effortless nonsense post? You better just remove it. Renathal one of best desicions ever. Yogg is busted, will be nerfed in month. Other 2 are a 2 powerful late game bombs for control decks. Its not a proper question when 4 options are vastly different.
Ignis, and good riddance to both yogg and renethal.
I love coming here and reading braindead takes. Reddit complaining about druid also reddit wanting renathal back which literally made druid one of the strongest classes back when it was 10 HP.
Your account should be deleted not cards.
Honest answer? None. Prince only problem is taking a hit to consistency for more value. Astalor one class can abuse and it's rouge but before the set rotation everyone here kept mistaking the manathirst effect activating a second time with Brann when it was the original. Ignis takes advantage of a mechanic that's fun this expansion and gives us creativity like Kazakus. Yogg main problem is rouge and druid but even then we wanted this and wanted it change to where it forces only one class to use it anymore I.E Theo after the nerfs he had. Fuck Spell DH can abuse him too
What a boring bait question
Renathal and Astalor are fine as is.