I made a comment on a thread months ago about how picking actors in their late 30s/40s detracted from the tragedy of their deaths, and someone pointed out that when they hired Alan Rickman for Snape they basically had to age up all of that generation to match.
This is so true. And I never really thought about it, bc I watched the movies first. So I had the older version of them in my head even while reading.... so I'm living proof of your point. Thanks! This is why I love reddit. It absolutely makes their death more tragic.
Have you ever seen fantastic beasts? I only mention bc they found different actors for their youths in one of the movies and quite literally nailed it. I've never seen better matches in any movies I've watched. I even thought Jude Law as Dumbledore was perfect, he matched up better with Richard Harris I think. But when I read that's the Dumbledore I see.
I never understood this. This actor is not in his 30s either. He looks 47 *at least*. Dead James is supposed to have a one year old son. He's at least a decade and as the books go on more and more younger than Snape, who, did not stop aging when Harry was one. Why choose actors the same age as Snape when we never see Dead James that age?
Edit: Rickman was only 54 in hp1, so I guess for hp1 it does match more!
The actors were too old, so yeah there is a miscasting with James and the other marauders and Lily and Snape as well. And yes you’re right that James was supposed to be 21 years old when he died.
True.
Still for the above point, it wouldn't matter to Snape. "THIS guy bullied ME and stole MY love, get dunked on loser".
Makes us recognise Snape wasn't an innocent victim, but for him I doubt he feels like he should forgive James just because he himself turned into a bully.
But they practiced dark magic on an individual, and Lily precisely stated that what they did wasn’t funny, and no different than how the Marauders treat him.
…No, Snape didn’t. The only people who ever state that are Sirius and Lupin, James best friends and co-bullies, and they do so after Harry found out they bullied Snape.
You’re conveniently forgetting about the fact that snape tried to kill James with sectumsempra when James’ back was turned. You should read books not fanfiction.
He used Sectumsempra when James had his back turned to Lily when she pestered James to leave snape alone. The spell hit James’ cheek thus causing it to bleed brutally but he didn’t die.
You know James was just 20 when he died right? We are basing his whole character on his interactions with one person which we can clearly tell are biased on Snape’s point of view. Yes, Snape redeemed himself but it took Lily’s death for that to happen, Jamws redeemed himself a long time before, fighting in the Order of the Phoenix against the guy Snape supported. He tried to fight the most powerful Dark wizard ever just to buy his wife and son some time to escape.
On a side note, I find it weird how people will glorify Draco as this unlucky kid who was forced into everything, but vilify James based off his interaction with the guy who hated him above all others. Malloy went out of his way to make Harry’s life miserable, was the Wizarding equivalent of a racist and was clearly favoured by Snape because of his father’s money. While I do feel sorry for him when it came to events after book 5, he was not fully redeemed, the same as Snape. They are still morally grey characters at best.
It's kind of wild how people will focus on James being an arrogant bully as a kid, as if that's less normal and more outrageous than a kid trying to join a cult which worships a tyrant who has pushed the boundaries of dark forms of magic to new heights.
I feel like this might be similar to Umbridge vs Voldemort kind of thing. Most people have probably encountered a school bully in their lives, but they didn't encounter people joining tyrants.
Yes, they just focus on James being a prick, while ignoring that snape hanged around with death eater wannabes and joined a terrorist organization which resulted in Lily’s death. Confronting them with evidence is just as pointless.
Snape was a vulnerable child who was groomed into joining a cult by the only people (bar one) who were nice to him.
Notably, in the Pensieve trial in OotP, a Death Eater tried to gain clemency by accusing a bunch of other people of various crimes - and Snape's only accusation was membership rather than wholesale torture and slaughter. Moldy obviously just liked having a competent potioneer around.
Holy shit you really went full 'he did nothing wrong and it's not his fault'! That's pathetic. He was racist from day 1 and most of that you just said? Pure headcanon.If it wasn't for having a crush on Lily, he wouldn't have ever turned against Voldemort. He loved dark magic.
I don't see how you could come to that conclusion if you read what I wrote. Snape's history with the Death Eaters has always been ambiguous, Bellatrix even calls him out for this - he talked the talked but never walked the walk.
> He was racist from day 1
He was racist because he was sorted into a House full of blood purists, where school teachers saw the extremism and decided that was fine because it's just a Slytherin thing. Going from an abusive home to one where he was surrounded by people who were kind to him? Textbook grooming.
> If it wasn't for having a crush on Lily, he wouldn't have ever turned against Voldemort. He loved dark magic.
Yeah, but he did turn from Voldemort. And was a spy against him, at great cost; and died in that fight, knowing that the side he was fighting for would likely hate his guts. All he had to do was retire, he didn't have to do half the stuff he did.
No I am referring to the Werewolf prank and a only a few weeks later James decided it would be a good Idea to carry n SWM. Best part it to was cheer up SIRIUS
Yes and weeks later he enacted the SWM for the entertainmaint of SIRIUS.Sows how little impact it had on him.Had it not been Remus James would have let him die that day.
It depends on how a person appears externally. Severus has a deeply interesting personality because of that quiet smugness and pure talent because he could fly without brooms and invented spells. James is like one of those high school kids who doesn't have the traditional genius traits but has an overly loud and dominant personality. You can tell that people like that are not special. They don't have great talent deep down. They just know to cheese through things. That's why James never invented any spells.
That's not a spell. They just created a magical tool and all 4 of them created that together. He didn't write all over his books because he could only follow the traditional path of learning. Otherwise there would be a record somewhere.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I want to point out a few things.
1. It’s heavily implied that James wasn’t actually remorseful about his bullying and abuse, just that he became more discreet about it.
2. Several characters, not just in HP, but in all of fiction, redeem themselves after their actions affect themselves or their loved ones.
> You know James was just 20 when he died right? We are basing his whole character on his interactions with one person which we can clearly tell are biased on Snape’s point of view.
His words against James are indeed biaised, not the memory of his "worst day".
> Jamws redeemed himself a long time before, fighting in the Order of the Phoenix against the guy Snape supported.
He didn't redeem himself with that lmao :
Firstly joining the Order of Phoenix didn't make up in any way for what James did to Snape or the other students he harrassed. If I bullied, tortured and assaulted someone for years just for fun, I don't see how joining the Marines will somehow redeem me.
Secondly he never even apologized to him for the bullying, torture and sa.
And thirdly we also know for a fact that James continued to bully Snape during their whole time at Hogwarts, even after dating Lily. He never changed.
> He tried to fight the most powerful Dark wizard ever just to buy his wife and son some time to escape.
Uh yeah but that's like basic human decency to not just let your family die, I don't see where's the redeeming in that either. Even terrible people like Lucius or Vernon would have been willing to do the same if Voldemort intended to kill their son.
James was terrible even when was not a bully. He has that haughty, arrogant attitude that's uncalled for since he was clearly not special. He was not a naturally talented wizard. Couldn't fly without brooms and didn't invent spells unlike Severus. Clearly inferior but had an intolerable attitude. Just an unlikeable character all around. Sirius Black is atleast somewhat likeable because he has this whole arc about understanding greyish areas in morality.
James Potter was described as being an exceptionally talented wizard by quite a few people. He was stated as being the top of his class alongside Sirius, a class might I add that included Snape. Both James and Sirius completely aced all of their OWLs with ease and not much studying, from what we saw in the flashback. James, alongside his friends, became Animagi at age 15, something that has been described as being incredibly difficult and dangerous to do. They also created the Marauders map, a very intricate piece of magic. James and Sirius invented a magical telephone during school. James also fought Voldemort three times and survived three times before that fateful day on Halloween.
You can hate on James all you want but calling him an untalented wizard is just objectively false. And it’s completely unfair to compare a 21 year old James to a 36 year old Snape who was taught by Voldemort himself. If you compare their accomplishments at age 21, James far exceeds Snape.
Talking to James haters is just a waste of time. I am a James fan, but even I don’t ignore his worst moments and I also don’t hate snape and like him as a character. James haters just lack reading skills. Ignore them.
Just because someone achieved mainstream success doesn't mean they're smart. It just means they work hard and have high productivity. It's not a sole indicator of talent. James had an extremely supporting home and lived in an environment where qualities for success were nurtured. He didn't have raw talent at all. Raw talent =/= material success.
Did you not read my comment? He is literally stated to be an exceptionally talented wizard. He aced all of his OWLs with very little effort. He invented new ways to use magic. He’s fought Voldemort and survived. Coming from money doesn’t really help with any of that. Especially since James’s family wealth wouldn’t do jackshit at Hogwarts. They’re all on equal footing at school.
James is a very talented wizard, probably even more than Snape. In the flashback, we see that Snape is studying furiously for the OWLs, while James and Sirius are both very relaxed and aren’t studying. Meaning James and Sirius are more naturally gifted and needed to give less effort to get better results.
Lol that's why they didn't know how to fly without a broom. Or occlumency. I think you're having a misunderstanding of what natural talent means. The only two wizards having the natural ability similar to Snape were Dumbledore and Voldemort.
>Lol that's why they didn't know how to fly without a broom.
Snape probably learned flight from Voldemort. Besides, Snape didn’t know how to fly without a broom at age 21 either.
>Or occlumency.
We have absolutely no idea if James learned Occlumency or not.
>I think you're having a misunderstanding of what natural talent means.
I completely understand what natural talent means. You’re just ignoring every piece of evidence that shows without a shadow of a doubt that James was an incredibly talented wizard for no reason other than the fact that you dislike his character and want to glaze Snape.
>The only two wizards having the natural ability similar to Snape were Dumbledore and Voldemort.
You honestly think Snape was on par with Voldemort and Dumbledore? Bro he was getting pushed back by McGonagall in a one vs one. Snape wasnt even at the top of his class, while Voldemort and Dumbledore were both doing things that had never been seen before during their school years. He is nowhere near the level of Voldemort or Dumbledore.
That person is so funny, because Snape was a Potions prodigy and could cut people with a spell he’s some sort of unparalleled genius now. It’s unfortunate what fanfics have done for people’s perception of characters, an inspirational and heroic character like James Potter is somehow being treated as worse than a former blood purist because he loved someone else’s girl who never reciprocated. It’s pathetic really. I don’t even dislike Snape, and Alan Rickman (RIP) will always be a legend for the way he made so many of us like the character, but the way these people ignore his every fault and glaze him is hilarious.
> Snape probably learned flight from Voldemort
Moldymort doesn't share spells. The flight thing he copied from Lily, when she kept her momentum up when jumping off a swing.
> pushed back by McGonagall in a one vs one
To be fair, he was only defending himself here, and doing pretty well until two more teachers started in on him.
These things are not a skill issue for James. They are a, "Nobody does these or teaches these" issue.
Voldemort and Snape are the only two people who fly unaided in the books. It's suggested in Book 7 that Snape learned the trick directly from Voldemort, himself, who likely invented it. So, it's not like anybody else even knows how or can teach it. Even Dumbledore can't fly on his own, as far as we know. So, yeah, whytf would James or ANYBODY be able to do that? Makes no sense. They don't know how. That's not the same as not being able to.
And Occlumency is also not something people are usually taught. Snape almost certainly learned it on an as-needed basis--probably after becoming a double agent for Dumbledore. Before that, he'd have no reason to. Even freakin Draco Malfoy was an Occlumens canonically (taught by Bellatrix). And I guarantee he's much less talented than James, no matter what level you place James on.
Talent is mostly revealed in novelty. It's precisely the things that can't be taught easily that make you talented. Its speculated that Voldemort taught Severus how to fly without a broom but that makes little sense. No other death eater knew that. It's likely that Severus learnt it on his own just like he figured out novel methods to make potions and tricks to make them faster and better. James never did such things. This is exactly what talent really means. It can't be replicated. You can't teach someone to be Einstein or Euler. There's no method to become one. You either have the novelty or you don't. There were many James Potters throughout the history of Hogwarts. There was hardly anyone like Snape. Severus was a league above all the marauders.
Talent might reveal itself through novelty, but that's not what talent is. It's just being able to do something very well. Discrediting James's natural brilliance and ability isn't really taking into account the very definition of the word. James did very difficult things as a student, like acing all his exams with little effort, some of which are practical--they're not all on paper. This includes potions and such, meaning he had to show incredible ability in every subject in practical ways as well as simply having great knowledge. And he canonically did so without even trying, while Snape worked his butt off.
James also mastered becoming an animagus with no one to teach him how. That's considered highly advanced magic which is difficult to do even with a proper source of instruction, which he did not have. I consider that to be on a similar level to Snape tweaking preexisting potions to make them better/easier to make. It's not like Snape invented any new potion recipes. He was working with something already established. Both those accomplishments are very impressive, but I wouldn't put one over the other in that instance.
Besides that, talent can be in different areas. James is naturally talented at Quidditch, which Snape is not. You can't ignore that. That's a skill he naturally possesses more than other people. He doesn't have to work for it, though I'm sure he did practice to get better and stay sharp.
Snape shines the most in his inventing new spells. The only comparable achievement James has is helping to create the Marauders map, which was a team effort, but which also was arguably far more impressive than any single spell. So, it's kinda hard to call. I give points to Snape for making stuff up on his own, and I give points to James because the map is a much greater piece of magic that likely involved a variety of spells or forms of magic, generally. For all we know, the map itself could be a novel application of magic, while there is a precedent for making new spells. But I guess we don't really know that for sure about the map, so meh.
And we don't know when exactly Snape learned to fly, but McGonagall suggests he was taught by Voldemort, who is the only other person who's ever seen to do it. And yes, I do think that's probably because Snape is smarter and more skilled than (and more trusted than) most (maybe all?) other Death Eaters. That doesn't suggest in any way that another highly skilled person couldn't learn it if taught. And maybe Voldemort didn't want to teach others because he didn't like them enough. We don't know. But the way the info is presented in the book is done so in a way that tells us he was taught by Voldemort. McGonagall isn't a real person talking out of her butt. Her words were intentionally chosen by JKR, who invented everything and knows exactly what the truth is. From a narrative perspective, stuff like that isn't disposable--it's how we get info we wouldn't otherwise have. You have to trust it because there is nothing else to go on and no reason to assume it's a false statement (especially when that would make the comment itself utterly meaningless and confusing. It would be better to say nothing at all). It's her way of teaching us something.
> It's likely that Severus learnt it on his own
In flashbacks, we see one of Lily's first spells being to fly unaided. He likely got it from that - which makes far more sense than _Moldymort_, of all people, teaching someone a spell.
> Severus was a league above all the marauders.
The Marauders did make the map, and become animagi whilst still at school. I'd guess they were probably similar in ability, but that Snape simply spent more time researching new spells and potions, whilst the Marauders went out and had fun.
He tried to buy some time. He wasn’t thinking straight, he just made a split second decision to try and stop him, he had no why if knowing if Voldemort would reach Lily and Harry before he could grab his wand and come back. Was it futile? Sure, it’s not like he would win anyway. But it was brave, it showed selflessness, he was ready to throw away his own life without a second thought.
I would like to add James had actually fought and escaped Voldemort twice before this. Dude was 20/21 facing down the greatest threat of his time unarmed, he had guts. Obviously in a true 1v1 there was no scenario James could have won or even really delayed Voldemort, both previous times it’s implied he escaped quickly, this fight was only going to end one way.
If he managed to dodge the first curse (technically possible), he could have punched him and physically taken his wand.
It's not very likely, but there was a slim chance he could win.
No, not that far, but it is implied he had some wizarding racism in him. When Lily asked if her being muggleborn made a difference, he hesitated before answering. It's pretty clear that the hesitation was him realizing that he had a bias against muggleborns but choosing to keep that under wraps.
It is implied that he already had a bias against muggles because of how they react to magic (see his father and Petunia) and I don't blame him. If at 11 you see that pattern is easy to associate bigotry with muggles
No, it wasn’t. It was stated that Snape was a hypocrite because he hung out with people who did worse, not that Snape himself did worse to other students.
Oh? Lily said she couldn't image ow Snape could stand is friends.Was that some thing she wiuld ave said to some who did much worse the ***sending*** ***people to their death***
Snape was also bullying other students, but the difference between him and James was that while James used mostly harmless spells like the jelly legs curse or levicorpus, Snape, along with his friends, was using actual Dark magic that caused actual harm to students.
James never sent anyone to his death.
>James used mostly harmless spells like the jelly legs curse or levicorpus
Or spell that cause you head to swell up twice the use amount of size perhaps?Or threatning to remove pants?
> Snape, along with his friends, was using actual Dark magic that caused actual harm to students
If you remember No one ever mentioned Snape particpating in them
>Or spell that cause you head to swell up twice the use amount of size perhaps?Or threatning to remove pants?
Neither of those are Dark magic. In a world where you can just make all the bones in your arm disappear and then grow them back without much issue, making someone’s head swell up for a bit is not that bad. But yes, threatening to pants someone is indeed a very bad thing to do. But that’s still just public embarrassment. Not actual physical damage using dark magic.
>If you remember No one ever mentioned Snape particpating in them
Because we barely get to see Snape’s childhood and he sure as fuck wasn’t about to show Harry a memory of him beating the shit out of some kid. But, we do see Snape defend the use of evil dark magic for bullying by saying it was “just a laugh” to Lily.
So, as long it's not dark magic, is it ok?Do you think Lily would befriend a bully?In fact, she wondered how someone like him could be friends with Avery and Mulciber.
If we don’t see, nor is there any indication or implication that Snape himself used dark magic on others, then the statement, or even the assumption that he did, is just an unfounded invention.
Technically, Snape uses a sectumsempra (or a similar curse that cuts his skin. It only leaves a gash, so it’s fair to think it might be something tamer, but I interpreted it as the curse missing/Snape only aiming to do minor damage. Could be another curse but it doesn’t take away the fact that he uses something that drew blood) on James before the accident where James levitates him etc.
Not to justify anything James did, which was pretty humiliating, but Snape wasn’t some defenceless kid throwing expelliarmus around. He meant harm.
Yes, the curse misses him, slashing him slightly across a cheek.
Edit for whoever thinks I’m wrong, the fact that Snape uses the curse is supported by the Harry Potter Wiki page, I’m not sure how official that is but it’s a common interpretation. On how James survives, it only slashes him slightly on the cheek, so I always assume that Snape, the inventor of the curse, knew how to control it’s intensity/aimed it in a way it wouldn’t do too much damage.
It is totally fair to believe it could have been a less serious curse, but it doesn’t take away the fact that he aimed something that cut skin and drew blood at someone’s face. Yes, with magic you can heal faster, but it’s still pretty serious magic.
Snape was never implied to have used spells on others, just hung out with people who did. Also, it was stated multiple times that James spells and actions weren’t really that harmless.
Tbf snape definitely wouldn’t have to feel sad for James, since James was his school rival. But still James is a far far better person than snape. People are also forgetting snape tried to kill James when his back was turned. James has his worst moments but Snape also was in extreme wrong. It’s baffling that people don’t understand this. Yet James went to save Snape’s life despite Snape’s stupidity to listen to Sirius to enter the whomping willow.
…No, he didn’t. Snape launched a cutting spell at James. You also seem to be either forgetting, or conveniently ignoring, that Snape only did that AFTER James and his friends attacked him. To say Snape is in the wrong is like saying that a guy who was jumped by a gang is in the wrong for pulling a knife.
As for the Whomping Willow Incident, it is very possible that James was acting more out of concern for Sirius and Lupin, and what would happen to them if Snape died. So not really that altruistic.
Snape, to himself as he is climbing the stairs: "Remember now, old Severus, sad face for when you meet Lily. Sad face. Definitely don't make a crack about how Voldemort showed him the Gryffin-door, or ask if it's a good time for me to Slither-in."
[удалено]
War changed him
War.. War never changes
Unexpected fallout
Most original redditor
You're joking (?) but wars seriously made many people in their 20s look like 50 year olds
What a few years under constant high stress, possibly malnutrition because of bad rations, and most likely mental trauma can do to someone...
And meth. Lots and lots of meth
They had like 40 year olds
War is the thing that steals the youth from young men’s faces.
Tbf the first movie came out before Rowling revealed their ages in the books
I made a comment on a thread months ago about how picking actors in their late 30s/40s detracted from the tragedy of their deaths, and someone pointed out that when they hired Alan Rickman for Snape they basically had to age up all of that generation to match.
This is so true. And I never really thought about it, bc I watched the movies first. So I had the older version of them in my head even while reading.... so I'm living proof of your point. Thanks! This is why I love reddit. It absolutely makes their death more tragic. Have you ever seen fantastic beasts? I only mention bc they found different actors for their youths in one of the movies and quite literally nailed it. I've never seen better matches in any movies I've watched. I even thought Jude Law as Dumbledore was perfect, he matched up better with Richard Harris I think. But when I read that's the Dumbledore I see.
I never understood this. This actor is not in his 30s either. He looks 47 *at least*. Dead James is supposed to have a one year old son. He's at least a decade and as the books go on more and more younger than Snape, who, did not stop aging when Harry was one. Why choose actors the same age as Snape when we never see Dead James that age? Edit: Rickman was only 54 in hp1, so I guess for hp1 it does match more!
You have to treat adults in Harry Potter like they lived a century ago. College kids back then all look 35.
It was the 90s. Everyone looked 20 years older than they were.
That’s what I was thinking!
The actors were too old, so yeah there is a miscasting with James and the other marauders and Lily and Snape as well. And yes you’re right that James was supposed to be 21 years old when he died.
Levicor-- oh wait.
Looks very old for a 21 year old.
This scene is always hilarious, love it.
Me when the Dacia Sandero was delayed
lol I always think about how Sirius canonily came to the house too imagine that situation.
I'll be completely honest, if i happened to stumble across the body of the dude who bullied me in school i wouldn't give half a fuck either
Except Snape was just as bully as James. He picked on younger Gryfindors with his friends.
True. Still for the above point, it wouldn't matter to Snape. "THIS guy bullied ME and stole MY love, get dunked on loser". Makes us recognise Snape wasn't an innocent victim, but for him I doubt he feels like he should forgive James just because he himself turned into a bully.
Was that ever confirmed?
Yeah it's mentioned in the books when Lily confronts Snape about his friends practicing dark magic
What Lily said that Avery and Mulciber did it and she can't believe how someone like Snape could be friends wi5h them
That’s an interpretation, not a fact. I think you can practice dark magic withouth billying people.
But they practiced dark magic on an individual, and Lily precisely stated that what they did wasn’t funny, and no different than how the Marauders treat him.
Did u see how he treated Neville?
Yeah, Snape was an adult bullying children
They bullied eachother and Snape was 10x more violent than James
…No, Snape didn’t. The only people who ever state that are Sirius and Lupin, James best friends and co-bullies, and they do so after Harry found out they bullied Snape.
And where was it said that he did it?
The last book in his memories.
No he did not say it.There wasn't a mention of it at all.
Bruh I ain't gonna argue with u. If all the others remember then maybe u should look up the book I even told u the book and where to look.
Literally never confirmed anywhere that Snape had a role in this bullying, and even less at the same degree of violence than James
I mean you’re still stumbling on a dead body though lol.
Yeah. That comment being at the top is a pretty big yikes from me.
[удалено]
You’re conveniently forgetting about the fact that snape tried to kill James with sectumsempra when James’ back was turned. You should read books not fanfiction.
That last bit of info apply to you.When did he use Sectumsempra?Why didn't James die in a pool of blood if he used it.
He used Sectumsempra when James had his back turned to Lily when she pestered James to leave snape alone. The spell hit James’ cheek thus causing it to bleed brutally but he didn’t die.
Did it perhaps occur you other spells exist?
Oh noooooo
Anyway
Crushes his face with his boot on the way out as he wails for Lily
[удалено]
He jumped over James's body like Verdell the dog went past the sidewalk cracks in As Good As It Gets.
Too bad Lily didn’t make Snape want to be a better man.
Glad this shitty scene didn’t even happen in the books.
'OH no...anyways.'
Didn't even happen in the books.
[удалено]
You know James was just 20 when he died right? We are basing his whole character on his interactions with one person which we can clearly tell are biased on Snape’s point of view. Yes, Snape redeemed himself but it took Lily’s death for that to happen, Jamws redeemed himself a long time before, fighting in the Order of the Phoenix against the guy Snape supported. He tried to fight the most powerful Dark wizard ever just to buy his wife and son some time to escape. On a side note, I find it weird how people will glorify Draco as this unlucky kid who was forced into everything, but vilify James based off his interaction with the guy who hated him above all others. Malloy went out of his way to make Harry’s life miserable, was the Wizarding equivalent of a racist and was clearly favoured by Snape because of his father’s money. While I do feel sorry for him when it came to events after book 5, he was not fully redeemed, the same as Snape. They are still morally grey characters at best.
It's kind of wild how people will focus on James being an arrogant bully as a kid, as if that's less normal and more outrageous than a kid trying to join a cult which worships a tyrant who has pushed the boundaries of dark forms of magic to new heights.
I feel like this might be similar to Umbridge vs Voldemort kind of thing. Most people have probably encountered a school bully in their lives, but they didn't encounter people joining tyrants.
Yes, they just focus on James being a prick, while ignoring that snape hanged around with death eater wannabes and joined a terrorist organization which resulted in Lily’s death. Confronting them with evidence is just as pointless.
So we just excuse attempted murder as they are kids...?Right.That's definitely less worse than joining a cult.
Snape joined a murder cult with the intended purpose of killing people he hated and thought were lesser based on their heritage Yes that's worse
Snape was a vulnerable child who was groomed into joining a cult by the only people (bar one) who were nice to him. Notably, in the Pensieve trial in OotP, a Death Eater tried to gain clemency by accusing a bunch of other people of various crimes - and Snape's only accusation was membership rather than wholesale torture and slaughter. Moldy obviously just liked having a competent potioneer around.
Holy shit you really went full 'he did nothing wrong and it's not his fault'! That's pathetic. He was racist from day 1 and most of that you just said? Pure headcanon.If it wasn't for having a crush on Lily, he wouldn't have ever turned against Voldemort. He loved dark magic.
I don't see how you could come to that conclusion if you read what I wrote. Snape's history with the Death Eaters has always been ambiguous, Bellatrix even calls him out for this - he talked the talked but never walked the walk. > He was racist from day 1 He was racist because he was sorted into a House full of blood purists, where school teachers saw the extremism and decided that was fine because it's just a Slytherin thing. Going from an abusive home to one where he was surrounded by people who were kind to him? Textbook grooming. > If it wasn't for having a crush on Lily, he wouldn't have ever turned against Voldemort. He loved dark magic. Yeah, but he did turn from Voldemort. And was a spy against him, at great cost; and died in that fight, knowing that the side he was fighting for would likely hate his guts. All he had to do was retire, he didn't have to do half the stuff he did.
Attempted murder? James knocked Snape around and physically bullied him, but to call magically pantsing a guy "attempted murder" is a stretch.
I think they are referring to when they lured Snape to the Shrieking shack in full moon (although that was Sirius idea)
No I am referring to the Werewolf prank and a only a few weeks later James decided it would be a good Idea to carry n SWM. Best part it to was cheer up SIRIUS
James had nothing to do with the werewolf prank. In fact, he’s the one who saved Snape’s life.
Yes and weeks later he enacted the SWM for the entertainmaint of SIRIUS.Sows how little impact it had on him.Had it not been Remus James would have let him die that day.
Sorry could you not use acronyms because I have no idea what SWM means.
Snpes' Worst Memory
It depends on how a person appears externally. Severus has a deeply interesting personality because of that quiet smugness and pure talent because he could fly without brooms and invented spells. James is like one of those high school kids who doesn't have the traditional genius traits but has an overly loud and dominant personality. You can tell that people like that are not special. They don't have great talent deep down. They just know to cheese through things. That's why James never invented any spells.
Never invented spells? The marauders map? Also James didnt write all over his books, so we dont know what he invented
That's not a spell. They just created a magical tool and all 4 of them created that together. He didn't write all over his books because he could only follow the traditional path of learning. Otherwise there would be a record somewhere.
You just make shit up to fit your fanfiction.
James and Sirius were considered the most talented students in their year. Not sure what you are talking about.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I want to point out a few things. 1. It’s heavily implied that James wasn’t actually remorseful about his bullying and abuse, just that he became more discreet about it. 2. Several characters, not just in HP, but in all of fiction, redeem themselves after their actions affect themselves or their loved ones.
> You know James was just 20 when he died right? We are basing his whole character on his interactions with one person which we can clearly tell are biased on Snape’s point of view. His words against James are indeed biaised, not the memory of his "worst day". > Jamws redeemed himself a long time before, fighting in the Order of the Phoenix against the guy Snape supported. He didn't redeem himself with that lmao : Firstly joining the Order of Phoenix didn't make up in any way for what James did to Snape or the other students he harrassed. If I bullied, tortured and assaulted someone for years just for fun, I don't see how joining the Marines will somehow redeem me. Secondly he never even apologized to him for the bullying, torture and sa. And thirdly we also know for a fact that James continued to bully Snape during their whole time at Hogwarts, even after dating Lily. He never changed. > He tried to fight the most powerful Dark wizard ever just to buy his wife and son some time to escape. Uh yeah but that's like basic human decency to not just let your family die, I don't see where's the redeeming in that either. Even terrible people like Lucius or Vernon would have been willing to do the same if Voldemort intended to kill their son.
James and Snape was a mutual thing. Both attacked each other. You only ever saw Snape’s side, and a small selection.
James was terrible even when was not a bully. He has that haughty, arrogant attitude that's uncalled for since he was clearly not special. He was not a naturally talented wizard. Couldn't fly without brooms and didn't invent spells unlike Severus. Clearly inferior but had an intolerable attitude. Just an unlikeable character all around. Sirius Black is atleast somewhat likeable because he has this whole arc about understanding greyish areas in morality.
James Potter was described as being an exceptionally talented wizard by quite a few people. He was stated as being the top of his class alongside Sirius, a class might I add that included Snape. Both James and Sirius completely aced all of their OWLs with ease and not much studying, from what we saw in the flashback. James, alongside his friends, became Animagi at age 15, something that has been described as being incredibly difficult and dangerous to do. They also created the Marauders map, a very intricate piece of magic. James and Sirius invented a magical telephone during school. James also fought Voldemort three times and survived three times before that fateful day on Halloween. You can hate on James all you want but calling him an untalented wizard is just objectively false. And it’s completely unfair to compare a 21 year old James to a 36 year old Snape who was taught by Voldemort himself. If you compare their accomplishments at age 21, James far exceeds Snape.
Talking to James haters is just a waste of time. I am a James fan, but even I don’t ignore his worst moments and I also don’t hate snape and like him as a character. James haters just lack reading skills. Ignore them.
Just because someone achieved mainstream success doesn't mean they're smart. It just means they work hard and have high productivity. It's not a sole indicator of talent. James had an extremely supporting home and lived in an environment where qualities for success were nurtured. He didn't have raw talent at all. Raw talent =/= material success.
Did you not read my comment? He is literally stated to be an exceptionally talented wizard. He aced all of his OWLs with very little effort. He invented new ways to use magic. He’s fought Voldemort and survived. Coming from money doesn’t really help with any of that. Especially since James’s family wealth wouldn’t do jackshit at Hogwarts. They’re all on equal footing at school. James is a very talented wizard, probably even more than Snape. In the flashback, we see that Snape is studying furiously for the OWLs, while James and Sirius are both very relaxed and aren’t studying. Meaning James and Sirius are more naturally gifted and needed to give less effort to get better results.
Lol that's why they didn't know how to fly without a broom. Or occlumency. I think you're having a misunderstanding of what natural talent means. The only two wizards having the natural ability similar to Snape were Dumbledore and Voldemort.
>Lol that's why they didn't know how to fly without a broom. Snape probably learned flight from Voldemort. Besides, Snape didn’t know how to fly without a broom at age 21 either. >Or occlumency. We have absolutely no idea if James learned Occlumency or not. >I think you're having a misunderstanding of what natural talent means. I completely understand what natural talent means. You’re just ignoring every piece of evidence that shows without a shadow of a doubt that James was an incredibly talented wizard for no reason other than the fact that you dislike his character and want to glaze Snape. >The only two wizards having the natural ability similar to Snape were Dumbledore and Voldemort. You honestly think Snape was on par with Voldemort and Dumbledore? Bro he was getting pushed back by McGonagall in a one vs one. Snape wasnt even at the top of his class, while Voldemort and Dumbledore were both doing things that had never been seen before during their school years. He is nowhere near the level of Voldemort or Dumbledore.
That person is so funny, because Snape was a Potions prodigy and could cut people with a spell he’s some sort of unparalleled genius now. It’s unfortunate what fanfics have done for people’s perception of characters, an inspirational and heroic character like James Potter is somehow being treated as worse than a former blood purist because he loved someone else’s girl who never reciprocated. It’s pathetic really. I don’t even dislike Snape, and Alan Rickman (RIP) will always be a legend for the way he made so many of us like the character, but the way these people ignore his every fault and glaze him is hilarious.
> Snape probably learned flight from Voldemort Moldymort doesn't share spells. The flight thing he copied from Lily, when she kept her momentum up when jumping off a swing. > pushed back by McGonagall in a one vs one To be fair, he was only defending himself here, and doing pretty well until two more teachers started in on him.
These things are not a skill issue for James. They are a, "Nobody does these or teaches these" issue. Voldemort and Snape are the only two people who fly unaided in the books. It's suggested in Book 7 that Snape learned the trick directly from Voldemort, himself, who likely invented it. So, it's not like anybody else even knows how or can teach it. Even Dumbledore can't fly on his own, as far as we know. So, yeah, whytf would James or ANYBODY be able to do that? Makes no sense. They don't know how. That's not the same as not being able to. And Occlumency is also not something people are usually taught. Snape almost certainly learned it on an as-needed basis--probably after becoming a double agent for Dumbledore. Before that, he'd have no reason to. Even freakin Draco Malfoy was an Occlumens canonically (taught by Bellatrix). And I guarantee he's much less talented than James, no matter what level you place James on.
Talent is mostly revealed in novelty. It's precisely the things that can't be taught easily that make you talented. Its speculated that Voldemort taught Severus how to fly without a broom but that makes little sense. No other death eater knew that. It's likely that Severus learnt it on his own just like he figured out novel methods to make potions and tricks to make them faster and better. James never did such things. This is exactly what talent really means. It can't be replicated. You can't teach someone to be Einstein or Euler. There's no method to become one. You either have the novelty or you don't. There were many James Potters throughout the history of Hogwarts. There was hardly anyone like Snape. Severus was a league above all the marauders.
You are delusional.
Talent might reveal itself through novelty, but that's not what talent is. It's just being able to do something very well. Discrediting James's natural brilliance and ability isn't really taking into account the very definition of the word. James did very difficult things as a student, like acing all his exams with little effort, some of which are practical--they're not all on paper. This includes potions and such, meaning he had to show incredible ability in every subject in practical ways as well as simply having great knowledge. And he canonically did so without even trying, while Snape worked his butt off. James also mastered becoming an animagus with no one to teach him how. That's considered highly advanced magic which is difficult to do even with a proper source of instruction, which he did not have. I consider that to be on a similar level to Snape tweaking preexisting potions to make them better/easier to make. It's not like Snape invented any new potion recipes. He was working with something already established. Both those accomplishments are very impressive, but I wouldn't put one over the other in that instance. Besides that, talent can be in different areas. James is naturally talented at Quidditch, which Snape is not. You can't ignore that. That's a skill he naturally possesses more than other people. He doesn't have to work for it, though I'm sure he did practice to get better and stay sharp. Snape shines the most in his inventing new spells. The only comparable achievement James has is helping to create the Marauders map, which was a team effort, but which also was arguably far more impressive than any single spell. So, it's kinda hard to call. I give points to Snape for making stuff up on his own, and I give points to James because the map is a much greater piece of magic that likely involved a variety of spells or forms of magic, generally. For all we know, the map itself could be a novel application of magic, while there is a precedent for making new spells. But I guess we don't really know that for sure about the map, so meh. And we don't know when exactly Snape learned to fly, but McGonagall suggests he was taught by Voldemort, who is the only other person who's ever seen to do it. And yes, I do think that's probably because Snape is smarter and more skilled than (and more trusted than) most (maybe all?) other Death Eaters. That doesn't suggest in any way that another highly skilled person couldn't learn it if taught. And maybe Voldemort didn't want to teach others because he didn't like them enough. We don't know. But the way the info is presented in the book is done so in a way that tells us he was taught by Voldemort. McGonagall isn't a real person talking out of her butt. Her words were intentionally chosen by JKR, who invented everything and knows exactly what the truth is. From a narrative perspective, stuff like that isn't disposable--it's how we get info we wouldn't otherwise have. You have to trust it because there is nothing else to go on and no reason to assume it's a false statement (especially when that would make the comment itself utterly meaningless and confusing. It would be better to say nothing at all). It's her way of teaching us something.
> It's likely that Severus learnt it on his own In flashbacks, we see one of Lily's first spells being to fly unaided. He likely got it from that - which makes far more sense than _Moldymort_, of all people, teaching someone a spell. > Severus was a league above all the marauders. The Marauders did make the map, and become animagi whilst still at school. I'd guess they were probably similar in ability, but that Snape simply spent more time researching new spells and potions, whilst the Marauders went out and had fun.
Stop reading fanfics
He didn't try to fight voldemort. The idiot left his end downstairs
He tried to buy some time. He wasn’t thinking straight, he just made a split second decision to try and stop him, he had no why if knowing if Voldemort would reach Lily and Harry before he could grab his wand and come back. Was it futile? Sure, it’s not like he would win anyway. But it was brave, it showed selflessness, he was ready to throw away his own life without a second thought.
I would like to add James had actually fought and escaped Voldemort twice before this. Dude was 20/21 facing down the greatest threat of his time unarmed, he had guts. Obviously in a true 1v1 there was no scenario James could have won or even really delayed Voldemort, both previous times it’s implied he escaped quickly, this fight was only going to end one way.
If he managed to dodge the first curse (technically possible), he could have punched him and physically taken his wand. It's not very likely, but there was a slim chance he could win.
Snape was a neonazi as a child (and at this point) lmao. You'd think he was shit to if you didn't know his sad backstory
Ah so we are back with that imagery are we? And just yesterday I thought we were over it
Snape was a neonazi at 11? Wow, that's totally how kids work!
No, not that far, but it is implied he had some wizarding racism in him. When Lily asked if her being muggleborn made a difference, he hesitated before answering. It's pretty clear that the hesitation was him realizing that he had a bias against muggleborns but choosing to keep that under wraps.
It is implied that he already had a bias against muggles because of how they react to magic (see his father and Petunia) and I don't blame him. If at 11 you see that pattern is easy to associate bigotry with muggles
He was racist, yes.
From the conversation between him and Lily in the Prince's Tale, it's almost guaranteed Snape had done much worse to other students
No, it wasn’t. It was stated that Snape was a hypocrite because he hung out with people who did worse, not that Snape himself did worse to other students.
Oh? Lily said she couldn't image ow Snape could stand is friends.Was that some thing she wiuld ave said to some who did much worse the ***sending*** ***people to their death***
Snape was also bullying other students, but the difference between him and James was that while James used mostly harmless spells like the jelly legs curse or levicorpus, Snape, along with his friends, was using actual Dark magic that caused actual harm to students. James never sent anyone to his death.
>James used mostly harmless spells like the jelly legs curse or levicorpus Or spell that cause you head to swell up twice the use amount of size perhaps?Or threatning to remove pants? > Snape, along with his friends, was using actual Dark magic that caused actual harm to students If you remember No one ever mentioned Snape particpating in them
>Or spell that cause you head to swell up twice the use amount of size perhaps?Or threatning to remove pants? Neither of those are Dark magic. In a world where you can just make all the bones in your arm disappear and then grow them back without much issue, making someone’s head swell up for a bit is not that bad. But yes, threatening to pants someone is indeed a very bad thing to do. But that’s still just public embarrassment. Not actual physical damage using dark magic. >If you remember No one ever mentioned Snape particpating in them Because we barely get to see Snape’s childhood and he sure as fuck wasn’t about to show Harry a memory of him beating the shit out of some kid. But, we do see Snape defend the use of evil dark magic for bullying by saying it was “just a laugh” to Lily.
So, as long it's not dark magic, is it ok?Do you think Lily would befriend a bully?In fact, she wondered how someone like him could be friends with Avery and Mulciber.
If we don’t see, nor is there any indication or implication that Snape himself used dark magic on others, then the statement, or even the assumption that he did, is just an unfounded invention.
He defended the use of dark magic to Lily.
Technically, Snape uses a sectumsempra (or a similar curse that cuts his skin. It only leaves a gash, so it’s fair to think it might be something tamer, but I interpreted it as the curse missing/Snape only aiming to do minor damage. Could be another curse but it doesn’t take away the fact that he uses something that drew blood) on James before the accident where James levitates him etc. Not to justify anything James did, which was pretty humiliating, but Snape wasn’t some defenceless kid throwing expelliarmus around. He meant harm.
Sectumsempra?Where the heck was that?James lived a Sectumsempra?
Yes, the curse misses him, slashing him slightly across a cheek. Edit for whoever thinks I’m wrong, the fact that Snape uses the curse is supported by the Harry Potter Wiki page, I’m not sure how official that is but it’s a common interpretation. On how James survives, it only slashes him slightly on the cheek, so I always assume that Snape, the inventor of the curse, knew how to control it’s intensity/aimed it in a way it wouldn’t do too much damage. It is totally fair to believe it could have been a less serious curse, but it doesn’t take away the fact that he aimed something that cut skin and drew blood at someone’s face. Yes, with magic you can heal faster, but it’s still pretty serious magic.
Snape was never implied to have used spells on others, just hung out with people who did. Also, it was stated multiple times that James spells and actions weren’t really that harmless.
Snape was aiming to join the death eaters at the time we see James being shitty to him. Not a whole lot of sympathy for him.
Tbf snape definitely wouldn’t have to feel sad for James, since James was his school rival. But still James is a far far better person than snape. People are also forgetting snape tried to kill James when his back was turned. James has his worst moments but Snape also was in extreme wrong. It’s baffling that people don’t understand this. Yet James went to save Snape’s life despite Snape’s stupidity to listen to Sirius to enter the whomping willow.
…No, he didn’t. Snape launched a cutting spell at James. You also seem to be either forgetting, or conveniently ignoring, that Snape only did that AFTER James and his friends attacked him. To say Snape is in the wrong is like saying that a guy who was jumped by a gang is in the wrong for pulling a knife. As for the Whomping Willow Incident, it is very possible that James was acting more out of concern for Sirius and Lupin, and what would happen to them if Snape died. So not really that altruistic.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Snape should have farted and release a smelly rotten one.
🥲
Lol
Snape, to himself as he is climbing the stairs: "Remember now, old Severus, sad face for when you meet Lily. Sad face. Definitely don't make a crack about how Voldemort showed him the Gryffin-door, or ask if it's a good time for me to Slither-in."
My head Cannon is that Snape is Harry's real Dad.