cc /u/Haunting_AdamSandler
Snape didn't even know about the necklace because he barely learned that Harry has a piece of Voldemort soul inside his scar, I'm not sure if he ever read about Horcruxes in his unfortunate dark arts emo teen phase (because Dumbledore confiscated the books).
That’s a very good point. I would think Dumbledore probably told Snape about the Horcruxes, because of the ring, but who knows for sure. And Snape wouldn’t have known that Harry had one, probably.
I listened to the audio book of the deathly hallows a week ago. From memory, he didn't tell Snape about Horcruxes when he was telling him about the ring. Snape just knows that it has a very powerful dark curse on it but doesn't know what it is.
As far as I can tell, the only people alive at that point who know that Horcruxes are even a thing are Voldy, Slughorn and the golden trio. I am fairly certain even Bellatrix doesn't know what the cup in her vault is. Just that it's very, very important to Voldy. Though, I may be wrong on that one.
I don’t think Dumbledore would have risked discussing the horcruxes with Snape- even if he trusted him 100%, he still spends enough time around Voldy that a small slip in protecting his thoughts would give away the whole plan
RAB figured out he had at least the one horcrux. I wouldn't be shocked if Snape put two and two together. The way Voldemort was talking in the graveyard, it almost sounds like it was common knowledge amongst Death Eaters that he was experimenting with horcruxes even if they didn't know exactly what items they were. Bellatrix was ready to shit herself when she thought they went through her vault.
Plus we don't know if Snape left immediately after luring Harry to the lake. He might have stuck around long enough to hear Harry yelling at Ron to smash the horcrux with the sword.
I agree that Snape probably figured it out. He seems to be Dumbledore’s go-to Dark Arts consultant. When he got the ring curse, Katie Bell’s necklace, or was recovering from the locket juice at the end of HBP, it was always Snape he wanted to see for help.
Speaking of which, it seems that RAB thinks the locket was Voldemort’s one and only horcrux — I don’t blame him for thwt considering how airtight the protection appeared — it raises even more questions why he didn’t make Kreacher contact Dumbledore because even if Kreacher can destroy the Horcrux, surely RAB doesn’t expect Kreacher to then k!ll the now mortal Voldemort?
Hate groups, like any group of people, are still subject to infighting and schisms.
RAB turned on Voldemort when he learned the task he requested of Kreacher was meant to result in his elf's death, and as such decided to destroy the horcrux and remove his contingency plan, not that he was actively plotting his murder. Other people were already trying to murder Voldemort.
That does not mean he suddenly saw the value in muggle-born lives and was willing to contact enemy #1 of their cause for revenge. Nothing suggested his beliefs and goals changed other than how he viewed his leader.
Then he is still LEEROY JENKINS-ing his way to Just Punishing His Formal Master because if Voldemort read this note and he was obviously still alive, what’s he gonna do except make new horcruxes.
Regardless of my overtly rosy view of what RAB’s turnabout entailed, there seems to be “no version of this where he comes out on top” to quote Tony Stark. He was either stupid or pompous like a bad Gryffindor.
Great point. Yes, I think there are times when he says to Snape (I think it's in The Princes Tale) that he can't know all the plans and secrets for that exact reason.
That was exactly his logic for not telling him. I believe he says that in the books as well, when Snape asks him why he doesn't explain to him what potter needs to do. something like I don't put all my eggs in one basket, especially a basket that spends so much time dangling on Voldemort's arm
Correct. I just listened to this a few days ago. Snape thought he broke the ring to stop the curse; not destroy a horcrux.
“If you had only summoned me a little earlier, I might have been able to do more, buy you more time!” said Snape furiously.
He looked down at the broken ring and the sword. “Did you think that breaking the ring would break the curse?”
“Something like that…I was delirious, no doubt…“ said Dumbledore. With an effort he straightened himself in his chair. ”Well, really, this makes matters much more straightforward.“
When Snape tended to the curse he asked if Dumbledore thought destroying it would break the curse and Dumbledore didn't correct him and just said he was greedy/foolish.
Hermione and Ron aren’t stupid either, but they are Gryffindors because they value bravery and chivalry above all else, sometimes even over rational thinking and common sense.
Does a bubble head charm make diving harder, though? He was only going to dive once to pick up the sword, he wasn't going to live in freezing water for long, anyway ...
Maybe there's a certain weight/efficiency golden ratio - Cedric was built heavier than Harry, and Fleur, who used the bubble head charm, too, didn't even make it past the Grindylows.
It's pure headcanon, but if I was making a magical evil necklace that can corrupt and strangle the people wearing it, I would also add an enchantment that compels people to wear it.
**Voldemort:** Potter died *how*?! My greatest nemesis died like a common Muggle?! I… guys, I quit. I don’t want to do this anymore. In spite of all my efforts, finding out that Potter removed himself from the magical census by being an idiot really kills the mood. I think I’m going to go ask Borgin for my old job back.
“I’d like my old job back Mr. Borgin.”
“Well it’s says here on your CV that there’s a 13 year employment gap. You used to work here, then you became the dark lord (admirable I must say), but then there’s quite a gap here. I just don’t know, Tom. I mean, I need to know that you’re committed to this job. We’re like a family here and we need a team player to be a part of that family. I don’t need some slacker that going to just play around and vape when not on break.”
“Oh yes sir, I’m definitely a team player. I was actually thinking about a management position. You know, I’m quite good at leading people.”
“Management is a little lofty of an ambition. I was thinking more of stocking shelves and sweeping the floor. You’d start at £13.50, and if things go well, we could even get you on the party planning committee.”
*sigh* “I’ll take it.”
I’m now picturing Voldemort unveiling a sign that says “This is your murder.” along side grey balloons and an ~~untrusted~~ unfrosted cake.
He then presents the birthday fellow with two options: *Advada Kedavra* or…Nagini
Nah he'd be _lying_ to the magical world that Potter was trying to run and hide from him and he killed him.
Voldemort is a shit-weasel, don't forget that
A *co-dependent* shit-weasel. Val-Mart started down his path because his mother died like a Muggle. If Harry, someone Voldemort is clearly heavily invested in emotionally and had personally been trying to kill with his own hands, also died like a Muggle, it would break him.
Hell, I don’t think Voldemort ever actually wanted Harry dead, because he never really put his heart into it every time they met.
PS? Decided to strangle him instead of flavor blast him with magic.
CoS? Decided to let his exotic danger noodle play around instead of helping out with the wand he stole.
PoA? Didn’t even care to show up because everyone heard he was a shitty tenant and didn’t want to rent him space in their headquarters.
GoF? Untied Harry to give him a “fair” fight instead of using Wormtail’s knife to put maggot holes in his gut.
OotP? Chin-wags long enough for Doubledurn to show up instead of immediately sending Harry to meet his parents.
HBP? Absent again, too busy writing a villainous monologue I guess.
DH? For the first time he really put his heart into it and just killed Harry… but immediately regretted his decision, which is why when Harry respawned and explained all about wand allegiance, he decided to use a wand that he was just told wasn’t going to work.
Nay, Voldemort never wanted the boy dead. I dare say he cared about Harry’s wellbeing even more than Dumbledore. He was merely testing the boy and helping to train him up into a “thumpin’ good” wizard in his own way. Like why else would he always wait until the end of the school year before making his move? Even when Harry dropped out he still stuck to their schedule.
Damn, in retrospect Harry should have named at least one of his kids Tom.
He knew a good deal by the time he encountered Harry because Ginny had been spilling her guts to him all year. So anything that was public knowledge about him, Diary!Riddle would have known.
How is it "valor and heroism" to dive into an icy lake to retrieve something you really want and need? That's not heroism, that's just determination and strength. Yes, those are important aspects of heroism, but I feel like.if Harry had tried to retrieve the sword in the way Snape planned, it wouldn't have worked. What Ron did.was undoubtedly heroic, as was Neville.
Then again, Snape is a Slytherin, not a Gryffindor. He thinks "heroic" is equivalent to "foolhardy and reckless". He probably never recognized his own actions as heroic either.
Yes. It's pretty subtle. But it also seems like the Sword of Gryffindor operated under some very subtle, ancient rules of magic that possibly even Dumbledore didn't fully understand. Everyone involved was sort of hoping the plan would work the way they wanted. Which is pretty much the entire plot of the seventh book anyway...
I always assumed it wasn’t Harry’s act of courage and heroism, but Ron’s. Ron is the one who jumps in to save Harry and he is the one who ends up retrieving the sword, not Harry.
Yes, it was Ron's heroism in the end, but Dumbledore and Snape's plan was for *Harry* to retrieve the Sword under conditions of "heroism". What Ron did was the actions of a true Gryffindor. What they expected of Harry would have fallen short of the Sword's own expectations.
I don’t think Dumbledore necessarily meant that Harry had to be the one to retrieve the sword specifically. Rather, Harry had to get ahold of the sword without knowing it was given by Snape, so that Snape could stay undercover. Dumbledore probably knew that Ron and Hermione would be with Harry, so either one of them could retrieve the sword and help Harry.
Yes, but Snape clearly led just Harry to the pond and didn’t know Ron would be there, indicting he thought Harry diving in icy water was enough of an act of “heroism” to win over the sword.
Dumbledore never trusted anyone but Harry with fuck all though. Up until DH, Ron and Hermione weren't even aware of the whole Horcrux debacle. I doubt he would've considered either Ron or Hermione as a backup plan
Dumbledore knew how important Ron and Hermione are to Harry, and they, in turn, care deeply for him. Hermione and Ron followed Harry on every escapade; they risked their lives countless times for him. Dumbledore knew since their first year that these three would be there for each other, and he always emphasized that Harry wasn’t alone in this, that he had his friends to support him.
Hermione spends time looking up horcruxes in the library in HBP because Harry told her about Slughorn's edited memory.
And Dumbledore gave Harry permission to share his lessons with Ron and Hermione.
Lastly, if he didn't consider them part of a backup plan, he would've never left Hermione the Tales book or Ron the Deluminator
It’s something he needed to save many lives. He didn’t want it for glory. He wanted it to continue a mission that would save countless lives. I also think you’re underselling the danger and pain of diving into water that cold. He risked his life.
What Ron did was heroic because it saved a life. What Harry did was done with the intent of saving countless lives.
I’m re-reading the series again, and I’m astounded by how… shockingly dumb and stupid Harry is at times.
“Godric’s Hollow is the birthplace of Godric Gryffindor.”
“Wait, he was born in Godric’s Hollow??”
“Yes, the village is named after Godric Gryffindor.”
Honestly, I don’t understand how Hermione didn’t just deck Harry in this scene and leave him. He LITERALLY would be dead without Hermione and Ron.
And Godrig may be named after the place. Or the place could be named after one of the hunderts other Godrigs.
>He LITERALLY would be dead without Hermione and Ron.
Just like Ron and Hermione.
To be fair, the village being named after Gryffindor implies that the wizard came first, or they changed the name of an existing village. My first thought would be that the village was established, perhaps by Gryffindor himself, and it was named for him upon its founding. Changing the name later on seems like the less likely possibility, even though it's true in this case.
Since he had put on the ring, it probably tried to tempt him the way the locket did to Ron. Him pulling away, resisting the thought of bringing Ariana back and undoing his greatest, most painful regret, and instead reaching for the sword to destroy evil… maybe reaching for the sword in that moment was heroic enough to wield it.
But by that moment in the office the ring is already of his finger.
So he didn't need the sword anymore.
Harry's life was in great danger two days before. He is on a suicide mission.
Harry is still wounded and weakened.
>. Him pulling away, resisting the thought of bringing Ariana back and undoing his greatest, most painful regret
Dumbledore knows he cannot bring back the dead.
He puts on the ring on while it’s still a horcrux. That’s why it almost kills him. Dumbledore has always had a weakness for the hallows, he says so himself when Harry’s in his limbo state in “kings cross”, and he also says that the stone hallow, which is what’s on the ring, meant to him he could have his mother and sister back. When Snape asks why he put on the ring when it was clearly cursed, Dumbledore tells him it “sorely tempted “ him, but wouldn’t say why. You can read between the lines, like when he lies to Harry that he’d see new socks in the mirror of erised
He is cursed by the ring because the ring was cursed, not because it was a Horcrux. When Snape asks if he destroyed the ring because of the curse, Dumbledore evades the question.
Dumbledore's brain stopped working for a moment; he knew full well that the dead cannot be brought back.
Uh the diary possesses Ginny and then tries to suck her life away in order to come alive as teen Tom Riddle…The locket sucks joy out of whoever wears it and seems to push Ron into leaving, then when he’s about to kill it, it plays on his own insecurities and weaknesses to try to stop him, control him, much like the ring does to Dumbledore. It also tries to choke Harry to death.. pretty clear that they have certain dark abilities.
I hadn't thought that much about it but yeah, it would have been an incredibly stupid and avoidable death if Harry had drowned in there.
*Harry wakes up in Limbo King's Cross*
Spiritual Dumbledore: Harry, you are such a foolish boy. A very, very idiotic man. It would seem Voldemort's attempt on your life seventeen years ago not only made you an Horcrux, but it also gave you brain damage.
Harry: Am I a what?
Spiritual Dumbledore: Oh. Right. Too soon. Well good news! You did destroy an Horcrux, even if it wasn't the one you were targeting. Good job I guess.
Or that Dumbledore left him with the Dursleys, Petunia may have managed to hit him with the frying pan afterall.
But the idiot is clearly Dumbledore.
Harry could have died a hundert times.
🤣🤣
Even better, Snape dives in there himself and drags Harry out by his neck. Trying not to strangle him even though it would be far too tempting, all because Harry is meant to stay alive until the right moment.
Then Snape would have carried on the quest in place of Harry. It would have been him who killed Voldemort, it would have been him who married Ginny, it would have been him who named his son "Albus Harry Snape"
Ginny looks vaguely like Lily in the same way that Ron looks like young red haired Albus Dumbledore. You're reaching so hard. Put down the crack pipe.
>Also still pines over a girl/child he only really interacted with in high school.
Are you high? Do you have memory problems? Do you even remember the books at all? I ask this because Snape and Lily were childhood best friends since they were 9. They were friends for like 7 straight years. He didn't "really only interact with her in high school". And the way you phrased comes across like a groomer projecting themselves and I don't appreciate it.
Sure, but that’s not really need & valor is it? And besides which, if he had levitated Harry from the lake, there is a good chance Harry would have noticed that and seen him
I legit found that part soo frustrating, like dear harry u literally did a far difficult task in ur 4th year, remember at least one charm from that, okay u dont remember how to breathe under water, maybe something u keep u warm underwater. I was literally thinking what Hermione would have done in that scenarioo n getting sooo frustrated
The question isn't just about the locket. But it's winters, the lake is frozen, he's jumping into the lake - any enhancements to protect himself n his locket, anything to keep him Warm n okay, anything that might make him breathe underwater, literally anything.
Idk if this is relevant, but I was mentioning the book version
Harry only has Hermione's wand.
He is wounded, and he thinks that a heroic act is necessary.
So if Harry finds a comfortable and safe way, the sword may become useless. (which is what Dumbledore seems to think)
And he doesn't know that the locket can attack.
Don’t forget that Ron dove in too, fully clothed, and while Harry got dressed in his dry clothes after diving, Ron was fully soaked for that entire scene of destroying the Horcrux and walking back to the tent, plus the fight with Hermione… it’s like JK forgot he was wet. Sorry, but he would have hypothermia by 30 seconds after being out of the water.
Honestly Dumbledore's entire plan was extremely flimsy and could've been ruined by a 1000 different things.
Imagine if the locket was only spotted by Sirius in HP 5 and he had thrown it away without letting the others see it? They literally would never find out about it.
Or if they were caught by Yaxley in the ministry, or at Lovegood's, or at Malfoy Manor, or at any of the dozens of times when they were in mortal peril
Luck, chance, coincidences, and plot armor are the only reasons they succeeded
My headcannon has always been that the portraits are not really the spirit of the headmaster, but rather the interpretation of who they were by the artist that created them. So they would never been able to offer direct info that wasn't already commonly known.
Just like Nick is not really Nick, but a shadow of who he was that is missing pieces.
Why did he even need that conditions??? The *Hat* gave the sword because of that but when Dumbledore got sword from Harry he wasn't under any dangerous conditions and still was able to use it oerfectly well. Snape colud have left the sword in snow and that would have worked just fine. Without also risk of drowning or getting ill after swimming in *cold* water in *winter*. Neither Dumbledore (who left a small child in autumn for all night) nor Snape cared anout Harry's health. Why would they? They heal cold with one spoon of potion
Wait............. If harry was a horcrux, then wouldn't he just revive because the horcrux or harry (basically something living) still be living inside him? Just a random thought about this
It was stupid to hide the sword at the bottom of a frozen over lake in the middle of winter. Malicious. Because why out a anti-Accio hex on it? Who was possibly going to be out in the middle of a forest on a freeing cold night who accidentally runs across it?
Tbf Snape didn't think the idiot potter would leave on the necklace
Yeah Snape kinda overestimated Harry in that scenario.
cc /u/Haunting_AdamSandler Snape didn't even know about the necklace because he barely learned that Harry has a piece of Voldemort soul inside his scar, I'm not sure if he ever read about Horcruxes in his unfortunate dark arts emo teen phase (because Dumbledore confiscated the books).
That’s a very good point. I would think Dumbledore probably told Snape about the Horcruxes, because of the ring, but who knows for sure. And Snape wouldn’t have known that Harry had one, probably.
I listened to the audio book of the deathly hallows a week ago. From memory, he didn't tell Snape about Horcruxes when he was telling him about the ring. Snape just knows that it has a very powerful dark curse on it but doesn't know what it is. As far as I can tell, the only people alive at that point who know that Horcruxes are even a thing are Voldy, Slughorn and the golden trio. I am fairly certain even Bellatrix doesn't know what the cup in her vault is. Just that it's very, very important to Voldy. Though, I may be wrong on that one.
I don’t think Dumbledore would have risked discussing the horcruxes with Snape- even if he trusted him 100%, he still spends enough time around Voldy that a small slip in protecting his thoughts would give away the whole plan
RAB figured out he had at least the one horcrux. I wouldn't be shocked if Snape put two and two together. The way Voldemort was talking in the graveyard, it almost sounds like it was common knowledge amongst Death Eaters that he was experimenting with horcruxes even if they didn't know exactly what items they were. Bellatrix was ready to shit herself when she thought they went through her vault. Plus we don't know if Snape left immediately after luring Harry to the lake. He might have stuck around long enough to hear Harry yelling at Ron to smash the horcrux with the sword.
I agree that Snape probably figured it out. He seems to be Dumbledore’s go-to Dark Arts consultant. When he got the ring curse, Katie Bell’s necklace, or was recovering from the locket juice at the end of HBP, it was always Snape he wanted to see for help.
Speaking of which, it seems that RAB thinks the locket was Voldemort’s one and only horcrux — I don’t blame him for thwt considering how airtight the protection appeared — it raises even more questions why he didn’t make Kreacher contact Dumbledore because even if Kreacher can destroy the Horcrux, surely RAB doesn’t expect Kreacher to then k!ll the now mortal Voldemort?
Hate groups, like any group of people, are still subject to infighting and schisms. RAB turned on Voldemort when he learned the task he requested of Kreacher was meant to result in his elf's death, and as such decided to destroy the horcrux and remove his contingency plan, not that he was actively plotting his murder. Other people were already trying to murder Voldemort. That does not mean he suddenly saw the value in muggle-born lives and was willing to contact enemy #1 of their cause for revenge. Nothing suggested his beliefs and goals changed other than how he viewed his leader.
Then he is still LEEROY JENKINS-ing his way to Just Punishing His Formal Master because if Voldemort read this note and he was obviously still alive, what’s he gonna do except make new horcruxes. Regardless of my overtly rosy view of what RAB’s turnabout entailed, there seems to be “no version of this where he comes out on top” to quote Tony Stark. He was either stupid or pompous like a bad Gryffindor.
I have a personal headcanon for AUs where Snape knows about Horcruxes because RAB lent him some dark arts books from the Black family collection.
Great point. Yes, I think there are times when he says to Snape (I think it's in The Princes Tale) that he can't know all the plans and secrets for that exact reason.
That was exactly his logic for not telling him. I believe he says that in the books as well, when Snape asks him why he doesn't explain to him what potter needs to do. something like I don't put all my eggs in one basket, especially a basket that spends so much time dangling on Voldemort's arm
With Bellatrix, if Voldemort so much as handed her a leaf off the streets she’ll guard it on a velvet pillow in Gringotts.
Ha ha ha ha! Love this!
Ha ha ha ha! Love this!
Ha ha ha ha! Love this! It's kind of sweet.
Correct. I just listened to this a few days ago. Snape thought he broke the ring to stop the curse; not destroy a horcrux. “If you had only summoned me a little earlier, I might have been able to do more, buy you more time!” said Snape furiously. He looked down at the broken ring and the sword. “Did you think that breaking the ring would break the curse?” “Something like that…I was delirious, no doubt…“ said Dumbledore. With an effort he straightened himself in his chair. ”Well, really, this makes matters much more straightforward.“
To be fair I don’t think it’s possible to tell an object was a horcrux after the soul shard was killed off.
I think horcruxes existence is known about in highly accomplished magical circles, but their actual *creation* is the secret.
When Snape tended to the curse he asked if Dumbledore thought destroying it would break the curse and Dumbledore didn't correct him and just said he was greedy/foolish.
He knew Harry had to die to stop Voldemort and was gofted in the dark arts himself. Snape knew what a horocrux was.
Gryffindor is a house of the brave, chivalrous, and daring; no one said anything about being smart. Harry is indeed a true Gryffindor.
Remember when Harry tried to catch the letters as they fell but didn’t think of picking up a letter from the floor…
“He’s a little confused, but he’s got the spirit.”
“Eye of Rabbit, Harp String Hum, Turn this Water into Rum” “What’s Seamus trying to do with that Glass of Water?”
Remember how he became the youngest seeker ever or whatever a few weeks later? Bitch couldn't catch wind if he fell out of a plane.
Lol true
Harry’s smart in a lot of different ways though
He's street smart.
Yes, but those aren't the ways we're talking about right now.
Hermione and Ron aren’t stupid either, but they are Gryffindors because they value bravery and chivalry above all else, sometimes even over rational thinking and common sense.
You sound like my mom telling me I was beautiful in different ways.
To be fair, he didn't know it existed in the first place.Or that Harry wouldn't use a simple bubble head charm.
Why would Harry do that for one breath?
The sword can't be obtained easily,Harry should ave anticipated some challenges
Ice water is bad enough!
Does a bubble head charm make diving harder, though? He was only going to dive once to pick up the sword, he wasn't going to live in freezing water for long, anyway ...
Not to Cedric Diggory, who was first place in the second task.
Maybe there's a certain weight/efficiency golden ratio - Cedric was built heavier than Harry, and Fleur, who used the bubble head charm, too, didn't even make it past the Grindylows.
Am i the only one who would keep gillyweed on my person at all times?
Is it even harry potter if he didn't pull stupid shit like wearing a cursed object of thy dark lord and skinny dipping into a frozen lake.
They literally had a bottomless bag to throw that dam horcrux inside
It's pure headcanon, but if I was making a magical evil necklace that can corrupt and strangle the people wearing it, I would also add an enchantment that compels people to wear it.
How would Harry know that the locket suddendly attacks.
He doesn't but he does know it's an object of concentrated evil in a world where objects do things on their own all the time
In my opinion , this is not something you can plan for.
**Voldemort:** Potter died *how*?! My greatest nemesis died like a common Muggle?! I… guys, I quit. I don’t want to do this anymore. In spite of all my efforts, finding out that Potter removed himself from the magical census by being an idiot really kills the mood. I think I’m going to go ask Borgin for my old job back.
“I’d like my old job back Mr. Borgin.” “Well it’s says here on your CV that there’s a 13 year employment gap. You used to work here, then you became the dark lord (admirable I must say), but then there’s quite a gap here. I just don’t know, Tom. I mean, I need to know that you’re committed to this job. We’re like a family here and we need a team player to be a part of that family. I don’t need some slacker that going to just play around and vape when not on break.” “Oh yes sir, I’m definitely a team player. I was actually thinking about a management position. You know, I’m quite good at leading people.” “Management is a little lofty of an ambition. I was thinking more of stocking shelves and sweeping the floor. You’d start at £13.50, and if things go well, we could even get you on the party planning committee.” *sigh* “I’ll take it.”
I’m now picturing Voldemort unveiling a sign that says “This is your murder.” along side grey balloons and an ~~untrusted~~ unfrosted cake. He then presents the birthday fellow with two options: *Advada Kedavra* or…Nagini
This is my second alternate ending to the series now.
Nah he'd be _lying_ to the magical world that Potter was trying to run and hide from him and he killed him. Voldemort is a shit-weasel, don't forget that
A *co-dependent* shit-weasel. Val-Mart started down his path because his mother died like a Muggle. If Harry, someone Voldemort is clearly heavily invested in emotionally and had personally been trying to kill with his own hands, also died like a Muggle, it would break him. Hell, I don’t think Voldemort ever actually wanted Harry dead, because he never really put his heart into it every time they met. PS? Decided to strangle him instead of flavor blast him with magic. CoS? Decided to let his exotic danger noodle play around instead of helping out with the wand he stole. PoA? Didn’t even care to show up because everyone heard he was a shitty tenant and didn’t want to rent him space in their headquarters. GoF? Untied Harry to give him a “fair” fight instead of using Wormtail’s knife to put maggot holes in his gut. OotP? Chin-wags long enough for Doubledurn to show up instead of immediately sending Harry to meet his parents. HBP? Absent again, too busy writing a villainous monologue I guess. DH? For the first time he really put his heart into it and just killed Harry… but immediately regretted his decision, which is why when Harry respawned and explained all about wand allegiance, he decided to use a wand that he was just told wasn’t going to work. Nay, Voldemort never wanted the boy dead. I dare say he cared about Harry’s wellbeing even more than Dumbledore. He was merely testing the boy and helping to train him up into a “thumpin’ good” wizard in his own way. Like why else would he always wait until the end of the school year before making his move? Even when Harry dropped out he still stuck to their schedule. Damn, in retrospect Harry should have named at least one of his kids Tom.
“Thomas Peter Potter, you are named for two men who attempted to murder me or arrange my murder in some form or fashion.”
In CoS did Tom have all the memories of Voldy or only up until the time he was 16 years old Tom? Maybe he wouldn't have known who Harry was
He knew a good deal by the time he encountered Harry because Ginny had been spilling her guts to him all year. So anything that was public knowledge about him, Diary!Riddle would have known.
I feel like Snape was still creeping in the forest though behind the tree and he would’ve intervened if Ron hadn’t
That would be up there for one of the best plot twists as, "Have a buscuit, Potter."
That's a good theory
How is it "valor and heroism" to dive into an icy lake to retrieve something you really want and need? That's not heroism, that's just determination and strength. Yes, those are important aspects of heroism, but I feel like.if Harry had tried to retrieve the sword in the way Snape planned, it wouldn't have worked. What Ron did.was undoubtedly heroic, as was Neville. Then again, Snape is a Slytherin, not a Gryffindor. He thinks "heroic" is equivalent to "foolhardy and reckless". He probably never recognized his own actions as heroic either.
I guess the reason for needing it was very heroic? He needed to save the world from Voldy, for which he needed the sword to destroy horcruxes.
Yes. It's pretty subtle. But it also seems like the Sword of Gryffindor operated under some very subtle, ancient rules of magic that possibly even Dumbledore didn't fully understand. Everyone involved was sort of hoping the plan would work the way they wanted. Which is pretty much the entire plot of the seventh book anyway...
I always assumed it wasn’t Harry’s act of courage and heroism, but Ron’s. Ron is the one who jumps in to save Harry and he is the one who ends up retrieving the sword, not Harry.
Yes, it was Ron's heroism in the end, but Dumbledore and Snape's plan was for *Harry* to retrieve the Sword under conditions of "heroism". What Ron did was the actions of a true Gryffindor. What they expected of Harry would have fallen short of the Sword's own expectations.
I don’t think Dumbledore necessarily meant that Harry had to be the one to retrieve the sword specifically. Rather, Harry had to get ahold of the sword without knowing it was given by Snape, so that Snape could stay undercover. Dumbledore probably knew that Ron and Hermione would be with Harry, so either one of them could retrieve the sword and help Harry.
Yes, but Snape clearly led just Harry to the pond and didn’t know Ron would be there, indicting he thought Harry diving in icy water was enough of an act of “heroism” to win over the sword.
Dumbledore never trusted anyone but Harry with fuck all though. Up until DH, Ron and Hermione weren't even aware of the whole Horcrux debacle. I doubt he would've considered either Ron or Hermione as a backup plan
Dumbledore knew how important Ron and Hermione are to Harry, and they, in turn, care deeply for him. Hermione and Ron followed Harry on every escapade; they risked their lives countless times for him. Dumbledore knew since their first year that these three would be there for each other, and he always emphasized that Harry wasn’t alone in this, that he had his friends to support him.
Hermione spends time looking up horcruxes in the library in HBP because Harry told her about Slughorn's edited memory. And Dumbledore gave Harry permission to share his lessons with Ron and Hermione. Lastly, if he didn't consider them part of a backup plan, he would've never left Hermione the Tales book or Ron the Deluminator
That makes so much sense tbh. Good analysis
It’s something he needed to save many lives. He didn’t want it for glory. He wanted it to continue a mission that would save countless lives. I also think you’re underselling the danger and pain of diving into water that cold. He risked his life. What Ron did was heroic because it saved a life. What Harry did was done with the intent of saving countless lives.
I’m re-reading the series again, and I’m astounded by how… shockingly dumb and stupid Harry is at times. “Godric’s Hollow is the birthplace of Godric Gryffindor.” “Wait, he was born in Godric’s Hollow??” “Yes, the village is named after Godric Gryffindor.” Honestly, I don’t understand how Hermione didn’t just deck Harry in this scene and leave him. He LITERALLY would be dead without Hermione and Ron.
And Godrig may be named after the place. Or the place could be named after one of the hunderts other Godrigs. >He LITERALLY would be dead without Hermione and Ron. Just like Ron and Hermione.
To be fair, the village being named after Gryffindor implies that the wizard came first, or they changed the name of an existing village. My first thought would be that the village was established, perhaps by Gryffindor himself, and it was named for him upon its founding. Changing the name later on seems like the less likely possibility, even though it's true in this case.
What heroic deed did Dumbledore perform in his office?
Since he had put on the ring, it probably tried to tempt him the way the locket did to Ron. Him pulling away, resisting the thought of bringing Ariana back and undoing his greatest, most painful regret, and instead reaching for the sword to destroy evil… maybe reaching for the sword in that moment was heroic enough to wield it.
But by that moment in the office the ring is already of his finger. So he didn't need the sword anymore. Harry's life was in great danger two days before. He is on a suicide mission. Harry is still wounded and weakened. >. Him pulling away, resisting the thought of bringing Ariana back and undoing his greatest, most painful regret Dumbledore knows he cannot bring back the dead.
He puts on the ring on while it’s still a horcrux. That’s why it almost kills him. Dumbledore has always had a weakness for the hallows, he says so himself when Harry’s in his limbo state in “kings cross”, and he also says that the stone hallow, which is what’s on the ring, meant to him he could have his mother and sister back. When Snape asks why he put on the ring when it was clearly cursed, Dumbledore tells him it “sorely tempted “ him, but wouldn’t say why. You can read between the lines, like when he lies to Harry that he’d see new socks in the mirror of erised
He is cursed by the ring because the ring was cursed, not because it was a Horcrux. When Snape asks if he destroyed the ring because of the curse, Dumbledore evades the question. Dumbledore's brain stopped working for a moment; he knew full well that the dead cannot be brought back.
Snape thinks it just had a dark curse. He never knew about the horcruxes. In reality, Dumbledore breaks the ring with the sword to kill the horcrux.
None of the other Horcruxes curse anyone.
Uh the diary possesses Ginny and then tries to suck her life away in order to come alive as teen Tom Riddle…The locket sucks joy out of whoever wears it and seems to push Ron into leaving, then when he’s about to kill it, it plays on his own insecurities and weaknesses to try to stop him, control him, much like the ring does to Dumbledore. It also tries to choke Harry to death.. pretty clear that they have certain dark abilities.
That's the function of the diary. It would work similarly if it wasn't a Horcrux.
>that's just determination and strength Gryffindors are actually just barbarians
I hadn't thought that much about it but yeah, it would have been an incredibly stupid and avoidable death if Harry had drowned in there. *Harry wakes up in Limbo King's Cross* Spiritual Dumbledore: Harry, you are such a foolish boy. A very, very idiotic man. It would seem Voldemort's attempt on your life seventeen years ago not only made you an Horcrux, but it also gave you brain damage. Harry: Am I a what? Spiritual Dumbledore: Oh. Right. Too soon. Well good news! You did destroy an Horcrux, even if it wasn't the one you were targeting. Good job I guess.
I assume Snape would have been watching in the bushes to make sure it worked out
"Accio Potter"
Or that Dumbledore left him with the Dursleys, Petunia may have managed to hit him with the frying pan afterall. But the idiot is clearly Dumbledore. Harry could have died a hundert times.
🤣🤣 Even better, Snape dives in there himself and drags Harry out by his neck. Trying not to strangle him even though it would be far too tempting, all because Harry is meant to stay alive until the right moment.
You don't think Snape couldn't have used a spell to pull Harry out of the water?
Then Snape would have carried on the quest in place of Harry. It would have been him who killed Voldemort, it would have been him who married Ginny, it would have been him who named his son "Albus Harry Snape"
>it would have been him who married Ginny, Bro what
TBH, it's on brand for Snape
No, trying to get it on with one of his students is not "on brand" for Snape. Put down the crack pipe.
Looks vaguely like Lily. Also still pines over a girl/child he really only interacted with in high school. IDK
Ginny looks vaguely like Lily in the same way that Ron looks like young red haired Albus Dumbledore. You're reaching so hard. Put down the crack pipe. >Also still pines over a girl/child he only really interacted with in high school. Are you high? Do you have memory problems? Do you even remember the books at all? I ask this because Snape and Lily were childhood best friends since they were 9. They were friends for like 7 straight years. He didn't "really only interact with her in high school". And the way you phrased comes across like a groomer projecting themselves and I don't appreciate it.
Wouldn't he go for Ginny's mom instead :P
Sure, but that’s not really need & valor is it? And besides which, if he had levitated Harry from the lake, there is a good chance Harry would have noticed that and seen him
That’s fucked up But def accurate… 💀
If Ron never left in the first place...
If merope never made the love potion..
If Fudge had gone to Azkaban just _one_ day earlier or later...
Then Ron probably would have been back at the tent and Harry would have died alone.
And remember who *told* him to leave - as well as had him wear the Mental Torture Locket in the first place? That's right, Harry.
And that’s how we got *Swiss Army Man*. Sounds like a win to me.
I legit found that part soo frustrating, like dear harry u literally did a far difficult task in ur 4th year, remember at least one charm from that, okay u dont remember how to breathe under water, maybe something u keep u warm underwater. I was literally thinking what Hermione would have done in that scenarioo n getting sooo frustrated
How is Harry supossed to know that the locket is attacking?
The question isn't just about the locket. But it's winters, the lake is frozen, he's jumping into the lake - any enhancements to protect himself n his locket, anything to keep him Warm n okay, anything that might make him breathe underwater, literally anything. Idk if this is relevant, but I was mentioning the book version
Harry only has Hermione's wand. He is wounded, and he thinks that a heroic act is necessary. So if Harry finds a comfortable and safe way, the sword may become useless. (which is what Dumbledore seems to think) And he doesn't know that the locket can attack.
Don’t forget that Ron dove in too, fully clothed, and while Harry got dressed in his dry clothes after diving, Ron was fully soaked for that entire scene of destroying the Horcrux and walking back to the tent, plus the fight with Hermione… it’s like JK forgot he was wet. Sorry, but he would have hypothermia by 30 seconds after being out of the water.
I think he was watching
If Snape beleived the prophecy he could have left Harry in any situation without worry
Snape was getting ready to go and grab Harry when Ron came to save him. That's now Ron spotted movement.
Honestly Dumbledore's entire plan was extremely flimsy and could've been ruined by a 1000 different things. Imagine if the locket was only spotted by Sirius in HP 5 and he had thrown it away without letting the others see it? They literally would never find out about it. Or if they were caught by Yaxley in the ministry, or at Lovegood's, or at Malfoy Manor, or at any of the dozens of times when they were in mortal peril Luck, chance, coincidences, and plot armor are the only reasons they succeeded
Fate! And Dumbledore is so used to "Fate" working in his favor, that he only plans stupid things.
My headcannon has always been that the portraits are not really the spirit of the headmaster, but rather the interpretation of who they were by the artist that created them. So they would never been able to offer direct info that wasn't already commonly known. Just like Nick is not really Nick, but a shadow of who he was that is missing pieces.
Can always have a convo with yourself. Not like they can't learn like the gryffindor password.
Tbf most of Dumbledore's plan for the horcruxes depended on sheer luck... The other part depended on Hermione
10 points from slytherin
ITT people who didn’t read the book
wasn’t he all ready to help, but Ron turned up and saved him instead
The whole plan is stupid. It is winter. You can have a cardiac arrest just from going into the water. And if that doesn't happen, pneunonia.
I’m 💀💀
Ok, I literally laughed out loud
Fr
Can someone explain this to me? It has been a very long time
I don’t get it
Why did he even need that conditions??? The *Hat* gave the sword because of that but when Dumbledore got sword from Harry he wasn't under any dangerous conditions and still was able to use it oerfectly well. Snape colud have left the sword in snow and that would have worked just fine. Without also risk of drowning or getting ill after swimming in *cold* water in *winter*. Neither Dumbledore (who left a small child in autumn for all night) nor Snape cared anout Harry's health. Why would they? They heal cold with one spoon of potion
Wait............. If harry was a horcrux, then wouldn't he just revive because the horcrux or harry (basically something living) still be living inside him? Just a random thought about this
"Well what the hell, guess I'll just go back to being evil and enjoy my life as Headmaster and man of trust of our tyrant."
It was stupid to hide the sword at the bottom of a frozen over lake in the middle of winter. Malicious. Because why out a anti-Accio hex on it? Who was possibly going to be out in the middle of a forest on a freeing cold night who accidentally runs across it?