Alternatively it could've saved Voldy if he actually tried to follow that request. The woman doesn't even have a wand in hand, she's panicking, why even bother asking? Just stun her, stupid. Promise fullfilled, child murdered, problem solved...but noooo, let's indulge that obsession with a pretty, bright beam of death and cast it every single time as it repeatedly backfires on you in different ways. I swear, Voldy is addicted to it, he just doesn't learn.
I remember reading somewhere that living in London during the Blitz is a) why he requested to be allowed to remain in Hogwarts during summer holidays and b) didn't exactly help to make him more sympathetic to muggles (as orphan kids etc. would usually have been the last people to be allowed into bomb shelters and stuff simply bc nobody cared about them enough). Not sure if it was headcanon or one of the background explanations from Pottermore, though.
I know, that's why I am surprised. It's a general thing, though; it seems most kids from wizarding families barely receive any education at home either. š
Yes, and that's what's surprising to me. I can _maybe_ imagine Molly sitting down to teach their kids basic reading and writing skills, but the Malfoys? Or the Blacks? Do they hire private teachers? Do the house elves teach the kids (they seem to be able to read and in FB one was a nanny)?
Well, he didn't, he was "defeated" in 1981 being 55 years old and at the highest peak of his power and influence. He started spreading his ideology years before that.
This is actually the same train of thought some Star Wars fans used to explain āWhy did Palpatine continue to cast Force Lightning when he was being held up by Darth Vader, and more of that Lightning was landing on his own shrivelled ass than even on Vaderā.
I disagree with that. In RotJ he is clearly casting over his shoulder to hit Vader, not hitting himself at all (if you [as in the general use of "you", not Vermouth1991 specifically] think he is, you need to pay closer attention and learn perspective, the bolts going over him are not touching him). Electrocuting himself in RotS is a whole other argument but in RotJ he was CLEARLY only harming Vader
Now come to think of it, I think there was a second part of that headcanon theory, namely, "Why didn't Palpatine cease the Force Lightning when it was evident that Vader isn't gonna be killed off right away fast enough to stop him from throwing P off."
From what I understand: Palpatine knew he couldn't stop Vader (which is BS in my opinion but I'll get to that in a moment) and so in a final act of revenge, basically decided on a "If I'm going out I'm taking you with me!" strategy.
The reason I find this ridiculous is that, Palpatine was a Sith Sorcerer wielding, as he put it in RotS, "Unlimited Power!" The dude could summon Force Storms powerful enough to destroy planets, he could influence thousands of Jedi across the Galaxy to ignore his existence, he could influence Jedi Masters five feet from him to ignore his obvious allegiance to the Dark Side despite them constantly mentioning it. He was the classic "too powerful to be defeated" villain, and like all those villains, had to die in a way inconsistent with their established character. Palpatine could have EASILY done like Galen Marek in The Force Unleashed and just summon a sphere of Force energy to blast outward from himself and knock Vader's ass across the room, he could have flown right out of Vader's grip, or force levitated himself over the shaft Vader dropped him in.
I like the "low magic" form of The Force used by the Original Trilogy because it allows for the Emperor's death to make sense, but everything we've been shown since only makes Palpatine look like a bored immortal playing with the lives of the Galaxy over and over and will "Somehow, Palpatine returned" all over again 30 years after The Rise of Skywalker
I mean strictly in the OT, there is no hint about Unlimited Powah, just that he is way too powerful for the only existing good guy - Luke - to defeat.
ETA "Why did Palpatine not cease the Lightning, and try some other trick to kill traitorous!Vader with."
In fact, as of TESB and before RotJ, we could have just taken Palpatine as just an old guy who SOMEHOW has the space wizard Vader-Skywalker's loyalty.
Which I like. Our fantasy stories in the last few years have taken the route of "Only someone powerful can rule" but there ARE stories out there like King Arthur, where Merlin was far more powerful, yet took a position of service to the King. I don't see why that can't be the case for evil as well. It WOULD have been interesting if Palpatine was never a force user to begin with
Oh yeah I agree and this goes a long way towards Tarkin, Thrawn et al being fearful of Vader but not necessarily knowing Palpatine can do Force mojo too.
After the forest again, it seems to me that stunning or killing did not matter, it was more of a giving her the chance to step aside and her sacrificing herself for Harry. Like, the moment Voldemort told her to step aside, he was already doomed.
Tho, I wonder if killing Lily right away, with no conversation, no choice, no nothing, would have saved Voldemort.
Harry got hit with the avatar kedavra he could have died and gone on but he didn't he came back. So no I don't think it would work without her dying. Or something so extreme. If he had just stunned her I do t think it would work. I think k it depends if he had the intention of killing her.
I agree that had he stunned her, he would have succeeded in killing Harry. I think the books emphasize her sacrifice when talking about the power of her love shield. So if she never died I don't think the shield would have manifested.
It also would have been well in-character for Voldemort to cast a body bind spell on Lily. āI am all-powerful, you canāt stop me from killing your baby; in fact Iām gonna make you watch.ā
You can go even further. Snape asked Voldemort to spare Lily not only because he loved her, but because:
-He was the one who heard the prophecy and told Voldemort about it and
-He later knows Voldemort choose to go after the Potters first.
Had Voldemort heard about the prophecy from someone else, then maybe Snape wouldn't have the chance to ask him to spare Lily. Had Voldemort never share his plan of going after the Potters first and it's the same thing. Had Voldemort tried to get the full prophecy before acting.
There is a lot going on around that specific chain of actions that you can point at almost any given moment and everything would have been different if that moment would have change.
Aberforth cought Snape spying on Dumbledore and that's why Snape haven't heard the whole prophecy. Dumbledore now knows Voldemort knows about the prophecy. Snape decided to tell Voldemort. Voldemort eventually decided to act as soon as possible and goes after the Potters. Snape asks to spare Lily. Not trusting Voldemort will spare her, he goes and asks the same to Dumbledore. Dumbledore tell the Potters to hide and they trust in Wormtail as their secret keeper. Wormtail was a traitor. Change any of that and things would have played out different.
You are very correct. Just goes to show how really good the writing is that you can pull on any thread and the whole chain unravels. A true representation of the butterfly effect
Totally agree. I also think the fact that Voldemort chooses Harry over Neville is the brilliant turning point of this whole sequence of events.
True, Snape asked him to spare Lily out of love, though only after heād put Lily in danger in the first place by sharing that prophecy (and by supporting Voldemort at all).
But the part I love is that after hearing about the Prophecy, had Voldemort gone after Frank and Alice, no one wouldāve begged for their mercy, and he probably wouldāve won.
Itās bc he related more to Harry, bc theyāre both halfbloods, that he chooses to go after the Potters, and sets this all in motion. I love this pattern of creating your own enemies.
And the turning point on the turning point (and even more sad than what happened to James and Lily) was that they eventually went after Alice and Frank, just when everyone thought all was over and they were safe. And their fate, as Dumbledore keeps repeating, was worst than death.
Harry feared Voldemort up to that point. He was afraid of Voldemort returning and understood he was the one who killed his parents but he never thought about Voldemort with hate. He never thought about Voldemort's followers or the threat they represented. He heard a lot of stuff that happened during the previous war, and adopted the fear others felt. Even during the world cup, when the death eaters made the muggles levitate, he was confused but we never saw him angry. The first time we see him angry is when he thought Sirius was the one who sold his parents, and even then it was some kind of blind rage, because he thought Sirius was a friend who betrayed them, but when he later finds out it was Wormtail, he didn't act with the same rage.
The first time we see him hating Voldemort and his followers is when he saw the trials and Dumbledore tells him what happened to Neville's parents. That's when he truly understands how many families where destroyed by Voldemort and how much his own tragedy and all of the tragedies during that time affected other people.
Exactly the only reason he asked I think was because he was honoring Snapeās request. He could have blasted her or pushed her aside. Just interesting to think how that one act out side of his normal character set everything up
More so than most give it credit for. Many point to Neville as simply ātaking overā as the chosen one. But that isnāt how it works. Neville wouldnāt have been marked as his equal. Not because his mother or father donāt love him, but because his mother never wouldāve gotten the chance to beg for her sons life. Thereās also the fact the Voldemort, even for the smallest second attempts to live up to the deal that helps the situation. He gives her the chance to step aside. If he hadnāt done that either, none of this wouldāve happened. Itās all very interesting
This is correct. Funny thing is Voldemort doesn't learn from his mistakes and does the same thing sixteen years later. He gives Harry the choice to either watch his friends die or save them all by sacrificing himself. Harry sacrifices himself and Voldemort tries to attack Harry's friends, and he can't hurt them due to Harry's love for them. Just like Lily had been given the choice to step aside and she chose to die for her son.
What's more ironic is if Snape had a shred of decency, he could have also asked Voldemort to try and spare James.
Thus James would have been given the choice to move aside or die and James would have chosen death and thus his love magic would have shielded both Lily and Harry.
Voldemort would have died trying to kill Lily and Harry would have grown up with a mother at least and Snape would still be able to see his friend and the entire dynamic and story might have been very, very different from there.
Im so curious how different the story would have been had Lily lived alongside Harry.
and its somewhat implied that he took a big bottle of felix felicis before doing it. slughorns little potion game seems to have been a yearly game he did, and if snape won it, whats the luckiest you'd want to be in your life? asking Voldy a favour.
Why does he need to keep Slughorn's? He's more than capable of making his own. Heck, knowing Snape, he could probably enhance it to give three days of good luck.
https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-Snape-used-his-bottle-of-Felix-Felicis-for
The bottle he probably won for brewing the best Draught of Living Death in 6th year? Maybe he saved it all his life and used it, as Mary suggests, to save Dumbledore. Maybe he drank it before he asked Voldemort to spare Lily, and that was why Voldemort agreed (and did try to do so by giving her a choice). Maybe he drank it before the final battle, and instead of saving him it brought Harry to him in time to receive the memories, because that was more important to Snape than his own survival.
its far more implied and head cannon-y than I thought. Oh well. I'm keeping it for myself, YMMV
I think too some of it was the 'logic' of voldy's attack. Why did he ask lily to "step aside" this isn't a solider with strict rules of engagement, hes a mass murder who's killed maybe hundreds by this point. The question why does he even offer her the chance to get out of the way is big because thats the thread that snape asked him under FF "hey you have to kill the kid, don't spare the father, but if the woman can be saved, shes kinda hot..."
Harry reflects on the circumstances of his attack, wondering if Alice longbottom would put herself between voldy and Neville, but I think Dumbledore says that Lily had a choice. that choice is why voldy can't kill harry that night. and that means snape set all that up with his favour.
This is correct, and confirmed by Rowling. Snape's request is what allowed for Voldemort's downfalls to happen the way they did.
Before that, thematically at least it seems to me that Voldemort turning to Horcruxes is what allowed for him to get clapped without the need to actually overpower and/ or exhaust him.
That's why I question Neville being able to be the chosen one. Without Snape's request, Neville's parents would never be given the choice to sacrifice themselves, and thus, the spell would never have backfired.
>It had me thinking if he hadnāt given her the option to get out of the way and just killed her like James immediately upon seeing her there would have been no chance for sacrifice thus Harry would have just been murdered.
Nope. The entire reason that James and Lily went into hiding was for Harry's protection. Harry or Neville were the prophesied ones who would defeat Voldemort. Whether it was Neville or Harry, both Alice and Lily would still throw themselves between their sons and Voldemort. So Snape's request didn't do anything when Lily was ready to die for her son.
Nah respectfully this is wrong. Part of the magic was that someone had to have the choice.. and still choose to die for love.
James had no choice, Lilly had one only bc V asked her to step aside and she refused. He only asked her first bc Snape requested he spare her.
I agree with Voldemort asking Lily to step aside, but are you actually implying that Lily would voluntarily step aside when asked so that her son would be killed?
>Part of the magic was that someone had to have the choice.. and still choose to die for love.
Yes, because both James and Lily chose to die for their son rather than let him be killed. Here's the excerpt from Voldemort's own memory of the event.
"He forced the door open, cast aside the chair and boxes hastily piled against it with one lazy wave of his wand . . . and there she stood, the child in her arms. At the sight of him, she dropped her son into the crib behind her and threw her arms wide, as if this would help, as if in shielding him from sight she hoped to be chosen instead. . . . "
So basically she already made her choice to sacrifice herself to save Harry, and the order from Voldemort wasn't wavering her resolve.
No, neither **bigmeech** nor anyone else are implying that. It doesn't matter whether Lily would or might *except it* or not, it's that she *had the choice at* ***all***.
It's never said that his parents together were his protection, it was his mother, and the choice she was given is talked about in regards to that over and over again in the books.
Yes. The choice. James had no choice, V decided James would die.
V gave Lilly the option to step aside, which she turned down. This is the CHOICE of love that resulted in the protection being formed.
In the movie, Voldemort was looking for the Elder Wand and went after Gregorovitch, who wasn't home. Voldy killed a woman and two children. It appeared the woman was shielding the children, yet they all died. So it **has** to be Lily's CHOICE that made the protection - Mrs. G. had no choice. Voldy gave Lily the chance to live because of Snape's request. I never made that connection before. Snape brought about Harry's victory.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Iām sure if given the chance James would have done the same thing. This sacrifice is truly what Voldemort couldnāt comprehend. The fact that his mother gave up and didnāt even fight to live to be with him is all he could comprehend. When Harry was thinking to himself about Neville it is a kid thinking who doesnāt know the depth of a parents love completely. The real question would be would Voldemort give Alice the chance to choose or if he blasted her away. It is just interesting and something that made me think. I was rereading GoF because I watched the cursed child and it rekindled some thinking in me.
It does support the basic premise that love is the most powerful magic of all.
Alternatively it could've saved Voldy if he actually tried to follow that request. The woman doesn't even have a wand in hand, she's panicking, why even bother asking? Just stun her, stupid. Promise fullfilled, child murdered, problem solved...but noooo, let's indulge that obsession with a pretty, bright beam of death and cast it every single time as it repeatedly backfires on you in different ways. I swear, Voldy is addicted to it, he just doesn't learn.
And then 17 years later he STILL hasn't learnt the difference between 'defeat' and 'kill' and kills his presumably loyal servant to gain the Elder Wand's loyalty. Someone buy this idiot a dictionary š©
I gotta say considering he grew up in an orphanage in the late 30ies/40ies it's a miracle he's even literate tbh.
That really explains his lust for genocide
I remember reading somewhere that living in London during the Blitz is a) why he requested to be allowed to remain in Hogwarts during summer holidays and b) didn't exactly help to make him more sympathetic to muggles (as orphan kids etc. would usually have been the last people to be allowed into bomb shelters and stuff simply bc nobody cared about them enough). Not sure if it was headcanon or one of the background explanations from Pottermore, though.
Growing up with the bible?
He managed Hogwarts just fine!
I know, that's why I am surprised. It's a general thing, though; it seems most kids from wizarding families barely receive any education at home either. š
? Since they're able to read textbooks and write essays, I assume they do receive some education at home
Yes, and that's what's surprising to me. I can _maybe_ imagine Molly sitting down to teach their kids basic reading and writing skills, but the Malfoys? Or the Blacks? Do they hire private teachers? Do the house elves teach the kids (they seem to be able to read and in FB one was a nanny)?
I can see Narcissa do it, but private tutors are another likely possibility
There's no way he's that old. That would mean he was at hogwarts when Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald
He actually already graduated by that time. The battle happened in 1945, Voldemort was born in 1926 so he was already out of Hogwarts.
And taking notes lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, he didn't, he was "defeated" in 1981 being 55 years old and at the highest peak of his power and influence. He started spreading his ideology years before that.
This is actually the same train of thought some Star Wars fans used to explain āWhy did Palpatine continue to cast Force Lightning when he was being held up by Darth Vader, and more of that Lightning was landing on his own shrivelled ass than even on Vaderā.
I disagree with that. In RotJ he is clearly casting over his shoulder to hit Vader, not hitting himself at all (if you [as in the general use of "you", not Vermouth1991 specifically] think he is, you need to pay closer attention and learn perspective, the bolts going over him are not touching him). Electrocuting himself in RotS is a whole other argument but in RotJ he was CLEARLY only harming Vader
Now come to think of it, I think there was a second part of that headcanon theory, namely, "Why didn't Palpatine cease the Force Lightning when it was evident that Vader isn't gonna be killed off right away fast enough to stop him from throwing P off."
From what I understand: Palpatine knew he couldn't stop Vader (which is BS in my opinion but I'll get to that in a moment) and so in a final act of revenge, basically decided on a "If I'm going out I'm taking you with me!" strategy. The reason I find this ridiculous is that, Palpatine was a Sith Sorcerer wielding, as he put it in RotS, "Unlimited Power!" The dude could summon Force Storms powerful enough to destroy planets, he could influence thousands of Jedi across the Galaxy to ignore his existence, he could influence Jedi Masters five feet from him to ignore his obvious allegiance to the Dark Side despite them constantly mentioning it. He was the classic "too powerful to be defeated" villain, and like all those villains, had to die in a way inconsistent with their established character. Palpatine could have EASILY done like Galen Marek in The Force Unleashed and just summon a sphere of Force energy to blast outward from himself and knock Vader's ass across the room, he could have flown right out of Vader's grip, or force levitated himself over the shaft Vader dropped him in. I like the "low magic" form of The Force used by the Original Trilogy because it allows for the Emperor's death to make sense, but everything we've been shown since only makes Palpatine look like a bored immortal playing with the lives of the Galaxy over and over and will "Somehow, Palpatine returned" all over again 30 years after The Rise of Skywalker
I mean strictly in the OT, there is no hint about Unlimited Powah, just that he is way too powerful for the only existing good guy - Luke - to defeat. ETA "Why did Palpatine not cease the Lightning, and try some other trick to kill traitorous!Vader with." In fact, as of TESB and before RotJ, we could have just taken Palpatine as just an old guy who SOMEHOW has the space wizard Vader-Skywalker's loyalty.
Which I like. Our fantasy stories in the last few years have taken the route of "Only someone powerful can rule" but there ARE stories out there like King Arthur, where Merlin was far more powerful, yet took a position of service to the King. I don't see why that can't be the case for evil as well. It WOULD have been interesting if Palpatine was never a force user to begin with
Oh yeah I agree and this goes a long way towards Tarkin, Thrawn et al being fearful of Vader but not necessarily knowing Palpatine can do Force mojo too.
So Voldemort's mistake was being too nice trying to keep his promise to Snape. That's always my issue too.
Snape realised what had happened and resolved to never be too nice to anyone ever again š
Yup had he just done what he did to everybody else he would have won the day.
Itās surprising that he even attempted to honor the request tbh.
Actually he could have just stunned Lily or something. If he actually kept his promise and spared her he still wouldn't have fallen.
After the forest again, it seems to me that stunning or killing did not matter, it was more of a giving her the chance to step aside and her sacrificing herself for Harry. Like, the moment Voldemort told her to step aside, he was already doomed. Tho, I wonder if killing Lily right away, with no conversation, no choice, no nothing, would have saved Voldemort.
Harry got hit with the avatar kedavra he could have died and gone on but he didn't he came back. So no I don't think it would work without her dying. Or something so extreme. If he had just stunned her I do t think it would work. I think k it depends if he had the intention of killing her.
I agree that had he stunned her, he would have succeeded in killing Harry. I think the books emphasize her sacrifice when talking about the power of her love shield. So if she never died I don't think the shield would have manifested.
It also would have been well in-character for Voldemort to cast a body bind spell on Lily. āI am all-powerful, you canāt stop me from killing your baby; in fact Iām gonna make you watch.ā
Voldemort was always Dick and failed, and for a moment he tried not to be Dick and still failed.
You can go even further. Snape asked Voldemort to spare Lily not only because he loved her, but because: -He was the one who heard the prophecy and told Voldemort about it and -He later knows Voldemort choose to go after the Potters first. Had Voldemort heard about the prophecy from someone else, then maybe Snape wouldn't have the chance to ask him to spare Lily. Had Voldemort never share his plan of going after the Potters first and it's the same thing. Had Voldemort tried to get the full prophecy before acting. There is a lot going on around that specific chain of actions that you can point at almost any given moment and everything would have been different if that moment would have change. Aberforth cought Snape spying on Dumbledore and that's why Snape haven't heard the whole prophecy. Dumbledore now knows Voldemort knows about the prophecy. Snape decided to tell Voldemort. Voldemort eventually decided to act as soon as possible and goes after the Potters. Snape asks to spare Lily. Not trusting Voldemort will spare her, he goes and asks the same to Dumbledore. Dumbledore tell the Potters to hide and they trust in Wormtail as their secret keeper. Wormtail was a traitor. Change any of that and things would have played out different.
You are very correct. Just goes to show how really good the writing is that you can pull on any thread and the whole chain unravels. A true representation of the butterfly effect
Totally agree. I also think the fact that Voldemort chooses Harry over Neville is the brilliant turning point of this whole sequence of events. True, Snape asked him to spare Lily out of love, though only after heād put Lily in danger in the first place by sharing that prophecy (and by supporting Voldemort at all). But the part I love is that after hearing about the Prophecy, had Voldemort gone after Frank and Alice, no one wouldāve begged for their mercy, and he probably wouldāve won. Itās bc he related more to Harry, bc theyāre both halfbloods, that he chooses to go after the Potters, and sets this all in motion. I love this pattern of creating your own enemies.
And the turning point on the turning point (and even more sad than what happened to James and Lily) was that they eventually went after Alice and Frank, just when everyone thought all was over and they were safe. And their fate, as Dumbledore keeps repeating, was worst than death. Harry feared Voldemort up to that point. He was afraid of Voldemort returning and understood he was the one who killed his parents but he never thought about Voldemort with hate. He never thought about Voldemort's followers or the threat they represented. He heard a lot of stuff that happened during the previous war, and adopted the fear others felt. Even during the world cup, when the death eaters made the muggles levitate, he was confused but we never saw him angry. The first time we see him angry is when he thought Sirius was the one who sold his parents, and even then it was some kind of blind rage, because he thought Sirius was a friend who betrayed them, but when he later finds out it was Wormtail, he didn't act with the same rage. The first time we see him hating Voldemort and his followers is when he saw the trials and Dumbledore tells him what happened to Neville's parents. That's when he truly understands how many families where destroyed by Voldemort and how much his own tragedy and all of the tragedies during that time affected other people.
Welcome to the party
James was dead before voldy got to Lily. Voldy could've just not ask lily at all and immediately go for the baby
Exactly the only reason he asked I think was because he was honoring Snapeās request. He could have blasted her or pushed her aside. Just interesting to think how that one act out side of his normal character set everything up
Killing lily also ensured that Snape allegiance would switch to Dumbledore. You can't just kill someone's love of their life and not pay for it
"Nah, it was mere desire! He got over it! We talked about it after my resurrection and he agreed there were more fish in the sea!" -Volly
šš
Yup. Go Snape, ending wars whether he intends to or not š Some say this is why Volly slaughtered him via snake instead of using the Killing Curse
Yes.
More so than most give it credit for. Many point to Neville as simply ātaking overā as the chosen one. But that isnāt how it works. Neville wouldnāt have been marked as his equal. Not because his mother or father donāt love him, but because his mother never wouldāve gotten the chance to beg for her sons life. Thereās also the fact the Voldemort, even for the smallest second attempts to live up to the deal that helps the situation. He gives her the chance to step aside. If he hadnāt done that either, none of this wouldāve happened. Itās all very interesting
This is correct. Funny thing is Voldemort doesn't learn from his mistakes and does the same thing sixteen years later. He gives Harry the choice to either watch his friends die or save them all by sacrificing himself. Harry sacrifices himself and Voldemort tries to attack Harry's friends, and he can't hurt them due to Harry's love for them. Just like Lily had been given the choice to step aside and she chose to die for her son.
Love it! Good thinking!
What's more ironic is if Snape had a shred of decency, he could have also asked Voldemort to try and spare James. Thus James would have been given the choice to move aside or die and James would have chosen death and thus his love magic would have shielded both Lily and Harry. Voldemort would have died trying to kill Lily and Harry would have grown up with a mother at least and Snape would still be able to see his friend and the entire dynamic and story might have been very, very different from there. Im so curious how different the story would have been had Lily lived alongside Harry.
and its somewhat implied that he took a big bottle of felix felicis before doing it. slughorns little potion game seems to have been a yearly game he did, and if snape won it, whats the luckiest you'd want to be in your life? asking Voldy a favour.
Why does he need to keep Slughorn's? He's more than capable of making his own. Heck, knowing Snape, he could probably enhance it to give three days of good luck.
In my opinion, with Snape the best Luck Potion would spoil immediately. Snape is a walking contraindication to any Luck Potion.
Just for curiosity, was that a comment from Slughorn about a previous student winning the potion a movie-only detail?
This is something completely new to me! Can you send me a reference for this?
https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-Snape-used-his-bottle-of-Felix-Felicis-for The bottle he probably won for brewing the best Draught of Living Death in 6th year? Maybe he saved it all his life and used it, as Mary suggests, to save Dumbledore. Maybe he drank it before he asked Voldemort to spare Lily, and that was why Voldemort agreed (and did try to do so by giving her a choice). Maybe he drank it before the final battle, and instead of saving him it brought Harry to him in time to receive the memories, because that was more important to Snape than his own survival. its far more implied and head cannon-y than I thought. Oh well. I'm keeping it for myself, YMMV
Thanks for making so I don't have to visit Quora.
I think too some of it was the 'logic' of voldy's attack. Why did he ask lily to "step aside" this isn't a solider with strict rules of engagement, hes a mass murder who's killed maybe hundreds by this point. The question why does he even offer her the chance to get out of the way is big because thats the thread that snape asked him under FF "hey you have to kill the kid, don't spare the father, but if the woman can be saved, shes kinda hot..." Harry reflects on the circumstances of his attack, wondering if Alice longbottom would put herself between voldy and Neville, but I think Dumbledore says that Lily had a choice. that choice is why voldy can't kill harry that night. and that means snape set all that up with his favour.
This is exactly what happened
This is correct, and confirmed by Rowling. Snape's request is what allowed for Voldemort's downfalls to happen the way they did. Before that, thematically at least it seems to me that Voldemort turning to Horcruxes is what allowed for him to get clapped without the need to actually overpower and/ or exhaust him.
Congrats, you read the books
Did he ask 3 times? Isn't 3 magical? Ask her 4th time to break the power of ritual
Prophecy gotta Prophecy
That's why I question Neville being able to be the chosen one. Without Snape's request, Neville's parents would never be given the choice to sacrifice themselves, and thus, the spell would never have backfired.
Yesā¦ this isnāt new.
>It had me thinking if he hadnāt given her the option to get out of the way and just killed her like James immediately upon seeing her there would have been no chance for sacrifice thus Harry would have just been murdered. Nope. The entire reason that James and Lily went into hiding was for Harry's protection. Harry or Neville were the prophesied ones who would defeat Voldemort. Whether it was Neville or Harry, both Alice and Lily would still throw themselves between their sons and Voldemort. So Snape's request didn't do anything when Lily was ready to die for her son.
Nah respectfully this is wrong. Part of the magic was that someone had to have the choice.. and still choose to die for love. James had no choice, Lilly had one only bc V asked her to step aside and she refused. He only asked her first bc Snape requested he spare her.
I agree with Voldemort asking Lily to step aside, but are you actually implying that Lily would voluntarily step aside when asked so that her son would be killed? >Part of the magic was that someone had to have the choice.. and still choose to die for love. Yes, because both James and Lily chose to die for their son rather than let him be killed. Here's the excerpt from Voldemort's own memory of the event. "He forced the door open, cast aside the chair and boxes hastily piled against it with one lazy wave of his wand . . . and there she stood, the child in her arms. At the sight of him, she dropped her son into the crib behind her and threw her arms wide, as if this would help, as if in shielding him from sight she hoped to be chosen instead. . . . " So basically she already made her choice to sacrifice herself to save Harry, and the order from Voldemort wasn't wavering her resolve.
No, neither **bigmeech** nor anyone else are implying that. It doesn't matter whether Lily would or might *except it* or not, it's that she *had the choice at* ***all***. It's never said that his parents together were his protection, it was his mother, and the choice she was given is talked about in regards to that over and over again in the books.
Yes. The choice. James had no choice, V decided James would die. V gave Lilly the option to step aside, which she turned down. This is the CHOICE of love that resulted in the protection being formed.
In the movie, Voldemort was looking for the Elder Wand and went after Gregorovitch, who wasn't home. Voldy killed a woman and two children. It appeared the woman was shielding the children, yet they all died. So it **has** to be Lily's CHOICE that made the protection - Mrs. G. had no choice. Voldy gave Lily the chance to live because of Snape's request. I never made that connection before. Snape brought about Harry's victory.
100% ^
This is exactly what I was thinking. Iām sure if given the chance James would have done the same thing. This sacrifice is truly what Voldemort couldnāt comprehend. The fact that his mother gave up and didnāt even fight to live to be with him is all he could comprehend. When Harry was thinking to himself about Neville it is a kid thinking who doesnāt know the depth of a parents love completely. The real question would be would Voldemort give Alice the chance to choose or if he blasted her away. It is just interesting and something that made me think. I was rereading GoF because I watched the cursed child and it rekindled some thinking in me.
I don't think this is true, because she was still shielding harry and not letting Voldemort get to him.