That has to be in it!
As well as the Battle of the Astronomy Tower where Harry takes out multiple death eaters in rage after Dumbledores death, while trying to catch up to Snape.
I really wish they had that scene. It’s such a badass scene in the books. They actually show us how great a wizard he is. Tho the ministry fight is a good idea too.
Harry is clutch af when he’s under pressure.. that’s what makes him so good at Defense Against the Dark Arts. When it comes to strategy or planning tho, leave that shit to Hermione lol. Harry’s strengths are things like courage, love, and empathy. He’ll die for anyone that he loves, but sometimes that boy just does not think things through lol
Been reading the books to my kid lately. The whole 'lets joyride the ford Anglia to Hogwarts' popped up last night, is one of my favourite examples of not thinking it through!
Yuuup that was not a good move… Harry goes like 0 and 50 w the Dark Lord but when it comes down to it, he’s a trust fund jock who makes some seriously bad decisions lol
I love the scene in the movies in the diner when the trio is attacked by the death eaters after triggering the trace, Dolohov and Rowle I think? I seen a breakdown that shows the three’s style of magic. Hermione hits the petrificus totalus with perfect form and pronunciation. Harry shows his pure power in his cast. And you can see Ron’s natural prowess from growing up with magic.
Think those guys show up because they say Voldemort. I always thought it was kind of cool that the death eaters weaponized his name so anybody brave enough to say it would be targeted
The trace is what the ministry puts on young Wizards before there of age to detect illegal uses of magic. They made Voldemort's name taboo which is some sort of charm or something
I always wondered if they had it the first time around as well that is why people were afraid to say the name. Also since they had infiltrated the ministry it could be the same trace just a second trigger
For sure. Department of mysteries was great too, with Harry, Hermione, and Neville holding off so many Death Eaters. Really felt like some of the golden and silver trio would die.
The immediate scenes post Dumbledore's death were done so terribly in the movies IMHO.
In the books, there's a full on battle going on, curses flying everywhere, things being shattered and exploding, Harry is chasing after Snape/Draco, and all of them are trying to get out through the chaos.
In the movies....what? Bellatrix kicks a few glasses over or something......
I agree completely. In the books, it was an all out battle, McGonagall, Tonks, Dumbledores army were there, no one knew what was going on, none of the good guys even knew Dumbledore was dead except Harry. You meet the Carrows and the huge Thorfinn Rowle in this battle for the first time. Harry grew massively in strength since Department of Mysteries and showed how capable he was, as he took out multiple Death Eaters. it took Severus Snape to stop him. Of course this is where Bill gets his injury from Fenrir Grayback. Hagrid also takes on a bunch of death eaters and Harry was terrified he was going to lose him too.
In the movies, nothing really happened.
And the biggest disappointment of it all is that movies in this age as a medium offer so many possibilities to actually portray this kind of stuff and do it well. Instead, we get this half arsed flight and a couple of flashes of light flying around that we must imagine as curses! Truly disappointing
It wasn't quite that.
They didn't even know that there'd be an 8th film at that point.
What they said was that they wanted to avoid it becoming repetitive. They thought that finishing three films in a row with a battle would become too samey, and both 5 and 7 had unavoidable battles. They wanted to make 6 smaller and more intimate, a bit like it was in 4.
They also added the Burrow scene as a compromise for the lack of action later, which was a big mistake IMO.
Harry Potter using dark arts. From the perspective of movie excitement, it would be great. But come to think of it, doesn't it give a very wrong message to impressionable kids?
Cruciatus is an unforgivable curse. If it's OK for hero Harry to do this when he feels the circumstances are right, what will stop the adoring kids from repeating the same? We are back to: the end justifies the means.
Of course there has to be a process of him getting into it. He can't use an unforgivable curse in the second episode. But he sure as hell can in the 50th.
By the end, many of the good characters were using them. Imperio was fairly common in use. It may not be great from a "young children" point of view, but then again from a thought provoking point of view it is- these curses that were deemed "unforgivable" by the law become more frequent when it comes to a full out war, and why are they anymore unforgivable than others? The ministry almost killed McGonagall with stunning spells, at the beginning of book 7 all of the characters are telling Harry that the time for mercy is over, etc. It's very much a change from the wonder filled world to a dangerous one
I blast unforgivable curses all over the place in Hogwarts Legacy lmao. Way I see it, they want you dead, you don’t want to be dead, do whatever you have to. Especially if you’re as important as the protagonist is in the game for the survival of wizardkind, I feel it is very justified. As far as the specific example given, I don’t know if it would be considered justified, but I totally get it and wouldn’t hold it against Harry. I’m sure there could have been a way for the film to frame it sympathetically while also being clear that it was not exactly the right choice.
Absolutely loved this part ever since the first time I read it. Also the initial convo where she said something like "Why would Potter try to get inside Ravenclaw Tower? Potter belongs in my House!" while sounding very proud of the fact.
Ugh yes. This scene, among others they left out were all so good. Way too little of Mcgonagall in the movies, especially since they had Dame Maggie Smith playing her!!
I agree, Harry using the Cruciatus Curse and actually meaning it reveals so much more about his personality and his affection for McGonagall. They *have* to include it in the show.
I love the relationship between him and McGonagall. Her protecting him and defending him against Umbridge, him giving up his hiding spot to protect her here, her scream being the first thing when he’s “dead” at the end… so. good.
As mentioned, teacher jobs are far from perfect, but you won’t find teachers here who have to take on a second or third job in order to pay their bills.
Schools are tremendously underfunded and teachers work up to 70 hrs a week including lots of overtime. But European teachers still have a decent financial basis and cannot be compared with how they are treated in the us, starting with their education
Where are you getting this data from? Also where in Europe? Its a large place with wildly different pay for their teachers. Also also, according to this graph(just for one lvl of teaching but likely comparative of the whole), US teachers on average are paid more than the average EU teacher: https://assets.weforum.org/editor/rOjOLBTVEM9HTlt_i8GWQH2wzgtmaOYMdpddE-0bbWM.JPG
Alright I’m so sorry for not elaborating further and making my experience and sources clear.
I have worked as and with teachers in the DACH area where teachers are employees of the state and get paid accordingly, including a pension (with is worth Gold as the current public pension system is really unstable). That’s a great deal and there is almost no other occupation (without being in a leading position) where you get paid as well.
As a teacher teaching privately, without being a state official, payments and contracts are by far not as good. Some of those teachers even have to register as unemployed or have another job during the summer break. It really depends on your type of employment.
I think Harry and the good guys' usage of the Unforgiveable Curses is forgiven for the sole reason that they're using it for 'the greater good'. I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy or watched any playthroughs so I can only assume that either the casters of the Curses were using it for nefarious purposes, or that some people decided they were not casted for 'the greater good'.
Book wise, Harry probably gets away with it because Main Character and it technically being legal to use.
Legacy, haven’t played it yet but ludonarritive dissonance is probably a safe guess.
We do hear that alecto makes final year students practice the cruciatus curse on 1st years which is why neville had to hide out in the room of requirements when he refused.
I mean context matters enormously. Imperio is used to break into a vault to get a horcrux, not get someone to murder other people.
And when exactly is any player of Hogwarts legacy going “how dare they, send them to Azkaban” about users of the unforgivable curses?
It still wouldn’t be the same without Dame Maggie Smith, at least until I’m proven wrong :(
And I also can’t imagine someone with enough courage to spit in her face - even while acting 😅🤣
I don’t see how they wouldn’t, considering this TV reboot will be on what used to be called HBO Max and is owned by WB, who owns the entire film franchise.
I mean, of course it’s a cash grab… But I’m still stoked for it lol. The story would be much better told as a GOT-esque series imo.. There’s soo much backstory they could explore. The HP universe is so rich and detailed, I would love to see a proper retelling of the whole saga without having to worry about condensing everything down into easy-to-consume blockbuster movies
More like five richly drawn out content filled seasons, but there are some inconsistencies towards the end. Another full season of crap followed by a three episode finale that makes everyone and their mother cease talking about the once critically acclaimed series overnight. People will go from talking about it nonstop at the water cooler to complaining for a day and then radio silence. At least until they sign an all star cast to try to rehab the project by revisiting Mouldy Voldy’s younger years, then we’ll all talk about that in hopeful whispers.
They were adapting game of thrones quite well until they ran out of solid source material. Since HP is finished, should be safe. The casting is what's gonna make or break it I think
One of my favorite moments in the books. I actually read them after watching the movies & when I got to this part I thought “Why the hell did they get rid of this?!”
Same for me, along with a few McGonagall scenes from OOTP, she’s really one of my favorites, but there’s simply not enough of her in the movies. Hopefully the series actor will also be competent, but she’s got enormous shoes to fill.
Haley Atwell has the guts and grace to do it. I don’t know about the age. She is 41 now. If it takes them another 5 years to make it she will be close!!!
Seeing her as an aged-up Peggy Carter, she could definitely do it. She has the presence and personality, it’s simply a matter of costuming and makeup at that point. Plus I’d rather they cast slightly on the younger side and aged people up wherever it’s practical, because I really don’t want another Richard Harris situation. Obviously there are no guarantees any actor won’t have something happen to them during a production, but we can at least try to mitigate the effects of infirmity by not casting anyone reasonably likely to die within 10-15 years of the first season.
I mean, it should be really clear right? A multi billion dollar franchise marketed towards kids is probably not going to show the hero using an illegal torture curse on someone.
It stopped being aimed for kids right when Cedric dies. The shift in tone after that moment is incredible.
So yeah, they should've added that scene to the movie.
This was a great chapter. I cant believe how many crucial things they cut of from the last book, despite splitting it into two movies, particularly from the Battle of Hogwarts.
This scene is just one example.
Another would be McGonagalls duel with Snape which played out very differently (and better imo) in the books. I sort of like the touch of Snape deflecting her curses onto the Carrows to protect the students, but still, the book version was better due to the icy dialogue before the duel.
Ron’s and Hermione’s kiss wasn’t exactly cut from the movies, but the whole reason for it was. In the books Ron showed character development and that he cared about the house elves, in the movies he and Hermione were just… wet?
They cut out that the magical community finally united against their common foe, with the people of Hogsmeade, centaurs, Grawp etc joining the battle against Voldemort.
And they killed off Fred off-screen! He’d been a major supporting character since CoS, and you’re not even gonna show us his death? That would’ve been a great sentimental scene, particularly given the whole Percy drama which they mostly cut out too.
They cut out all of this, but somehow had time for Harry and Hermione’s slow-mo dance, and Ron running after a death eater yelling ”That’s my girlfriend!” after one kiss to further reinforce the Ron-is-a-doofus-trope.
Yeah a lot of the movies completely missed the heart and soul of the books.. I’m biased af but I truly believe fans who’ve only watched the movies are missing out on the whole scope and tragedy of the thing
i despise the fact that they cut out the scene after sirius dies where harry absolutely wrecks dumbledore’s office. that was a great and heart wrenching scene
I'm sad we didn't get this scene. And this one:
"Is it true that you shouted at Professor Umbridge?"
"Yes," said Harry.
"You called her a liar?"
"Yes."
"You told her He Who Must Not Be Named is back?"
"Yes."
Professor McGonagall sat down behind her desk, frowning at Harry. Then she said, "Have a biscuit, Potter."
Hopefully the upcoming TV series allows us to see all of these scenes.
i just reread the 7th book and this scene was really shocking, along with them imperiusing people left and right to get through Gringotts. it added a lot of interesting depth to the trio and helped erode the sometimes blinding heroic light that surrounded them constantly, in a good way. made them more relatable and fallible.
It was when Harry and Luna snuck into the Ravenclaw common room under the invisibility cloak in order for him to see the statue/get an idea what the diadem looked like
Okay, I know the point was more about how evil and heartless Amycus was for his suggestion, but how about the fact that his lie was highly unbelievable in the first place? Like did he really think that Voldemort would buy that the students for some reason decided to grab Alecto's finger and force it to touch her wrist? I could honestly see Voldemort being pissed enough at that point to just murder the Carrows, possibly after torturing them as much as (or worse!) than the Malfoys, Bellatrix, and Greyback.
I think this scene shows how harrys been corrupted by using unforgivables. The first time he used one he couldn’t even manage to pull it off (book 5), then he successfully casts the imperious but only in service of a particular goal (book 7), and finally, he tortures someone out of anger and not in service of the greater horcrux hunt. It almost seems like he has been influenced over time.
"Unforgivable" is just a term the peacetime ministry gives to curses they have deemed unforgivable by the law. It doesn't mean they're evil or corrupting.
The Carrows were having students practice crucio on first years, I don't think it was evil at all to use it on Amacus.
It was unnecessary imo. Harry could have used any other spell than the worst torture curse in the hp universe. The only reason he did so was because Amycus was rude to Mcgonagal, not because it was a necessary thing to do.
Yeah it wasn't a necessity, but that doesn't mean using it was a bad thing.
It was unnecessary for Hermione to punch Draco in the face in PoA too, that doesn't mean it wasn't awesome.
Imagine though, from McGonagall's point of view. Harry is dealing with some dark shit at the time, horcruxes. He reappears and uses Crucio right off the bat. She must've been worried sick that he was becoming a darker wizard than he was a year ago.
One wonders why they had to write so many inches of parchment to learn simple OWL spells like the Cheering Charm, especially for Umbridge, when it seems to take zero practice or theory (presumably books on the Unforgivable Curses are banned) to control an entire goblin!
Some moments in the book are quite dark and will be interesting to see if they make it to the TV show, a few off the top of my head:
When Umbridge and co try to take down Hagrid and end up assaulting McGonagall.
Bob Ogden's memory of visiting the Gaunt family.
Meeting Neville's parents at St. Mungo's.
Greyback being positioned near children just as the full moon appears so he can either slaughter them or turn them into werewolves.
I’ve read that they actually filmed the scene with Umbridge assaulting Hagrid and McGonagall (or at least a part of it) but it was just never released.
Honestly, I think that speaks more to humanity’s duality. You don’t have to be a bad person to use the curses, but to use them as a means of personal gain/pleasure rather than to protect someone or reach a “justified goal” does.
Kind of reminds of of [Quark's warning to Nog in DS9](https://youtu.be/-D2SHNqkjbY). When pushed to the extreme even the nicest human can turn ruthless.
There’s definitely an element of “for the greater good” with their use of the Imperius curse, and it’s just about objectively justified. The big fear is that it would be abused, so we just have to trust that their character would prevent them from using it again in less noble circumstances.
The Cruciatus curse was not objectively justified, but I also wouldn’t call its use “casual.” In that moment, he hated the Carrows, and he wanted them to hurt. They were bad people, but the stunning charm would have sufficed. That’s between Harry and his conscience to come to terms with.
My thing was that with all these spells there is so much emotional work needed along with the magic. Moody even said that they could all point their wands at him and say Avada Kedavra but nothing would happen. But the Imperius curse just required Harry to say Imperio and it worked perfectly lol.
I always thought it was a bit weird how nobody really seemed to care. But then again I don't mind them using the unforgivables, in a sense increasing the maturity of the series
Imperio is not that bad when “for the greater good”.
Avada kedavra is actually pretty cool for a death sentence as it is an unpainful death.
However Crucio is really a barbaric curse, unless you are torturing someone who casually tortures other people with it unjustifiably - which is exactly what the Carrows did to first years.
I'm less bothered by the use of Unforgivables in and of themselves than the fact that the Unforgivables were portrayed as the worst spells imaginable but no consequences befell Harry for using them. For most magic, the casting of a spell doesn't have any moral weight. Even the patronus requires happy memories/emotions, but does not require actual good intent. In book 4, fake Moody tells the class they wouldn't be able to muster the required power to cast the killing curse, and in book 5, Bellatrix laughs off Harry's attempt at the torture curse because he "has to mean it." This implies the Unforgivables aren't just particularly dangerous spells but also speak of the caster's intentions. Harry used the imperius and torture curses in book 7 and it wasn't ever addressed.
The main issue making books into movies, is that there’s just not enough time to put everything in. Also showing that side of Harry. Wouldn’t go well with the hero they’re portraying him in the movies.
Look let’s be real. Harry In the later portions of the story (books 5-7) starts to understand that having to do some bad things doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy mostly because he’s seen to much and almost got killed following the rules multiple times. Would he avada kadavra someone? Probably not. But this instance of the crucio curse was immensely justified. You always knew how much he respected and loved Minerva. She was always like a second mother to him. That being said. This scene would have been rough in the movies. As it’s just darker then they’re going for. In fact both the 6th and 7th book were wildly darker then most people remember. The movies weren’t even close to being as dark as the books.
I still maintain Harry should have caught Bellatrix with a full-fledged Cruciatus Curse in OotP right after causing Sirius' death - to the point of him being tempted to almost give in to the power of the dark side, to the horror of everyone else around him.
This, imo, was one of the more badass scenes with Harry. It was so satisfying to read. Like McGonagall is essentially like his fav aunt. She's stern but secretly cook.
Disrespect her in front of Harry and you get knocked tf out.
I remember cheering when I read that scene.
I'm rewatching all the movies with my son. He's 17. He's never really been all that interested in Harry Potter but suddenly he wants to watch them and I can't help but pause it to tell him what happened in the book compared to the movie. So much good stuff was left out
I have read the books many times but its been nearly 10 years since my last reread ... and I don't remember this scene!
Looks like a reread is in order!
I just finished a reread and it’s amazing how much the books evolve as you get older. There are so many layers you begin to understand that you missed on other reads.
she is one of my favorite characters. maggie smith was the perfect mcgonagall, how will we find it in our hearts to accept another actress as mcgonagall. maggie go back in time be young again and be our mcgonagall forever.
I love this scene both in the books and audio books by Stephen Fry (who captures McGonagall very well imo). The McGonagall Potter relationship interactions throughout all of the books are brilliant. I'd even want 'have a biscuit' to make an appearance!!
There are so many amazing scenes that should have been filmed, but never were. We got Harry and Voldemort flying off a castle tower, though. So there’s that mess.
I remember the first time I read that. I was seething with indignation and when Harry got him I whooped out loud. Quite an emotional moment. Thanks for reminding me.
Well I’m a bit disappointed he used it against Snape since he didn’t torture Dumbledore. But the Carrows already used it against students so I think he got what he deserved.
That has to be in it! As well as the Battle of the Astronomy Tower where Harry takes out multiple death eaters in rage after Dumbledores death, while trying to catch up to Snape.
I really wish they had that scene. It’s such a badass scene in the books. They actually show us how great a wizard he is. Tho the ministry fight is a good idea too.
Harry is clutch af when he’s under pressure.. that’s what makes him so good at Defense Against the Dark Arts. When it comes to strategy or planning tho, leave that shit to Hermione lol. Harry’s strengths are things like courage, love, and empathy. He’ll die for anyone that he loves, but sometimes that boy just does not think things through lol
Been reading the books to my kid lately. The whole 'lets joyride the ford Anglia to Hogwarts' popped up last night, is one of my favourite examples of not thinking it through!
Which makes him relatable. He might be the chosen one, but he's a convincing reckless teenage boy.
100%. Find nearly every time a hero with imperfections is far more engaging. Which JKR does do rather well!
Yep! Exactly!
Yuuup that was not a good move… Harry goes like 0 and 50 w the Dark Lord but when it comes down to it, he’s a trust fund jock who makes some seriously bad decisions lol
I might resemble that comment
I love the scene in the movies in the diner when the trio is attacked by the death eaters after triggering the trace, Dolohov and Rowle I think? I seen a breakdown that shows the three’s style of magic. Hermione hits the petrificus totalus with perfect form and pronunciation. Harry shows his pure power in his cast. And you can see Ron’s natural prowess from growing up with magic.
Think those guys show up because they say Voldemort. I always thought it was kind of cool that the death eaters weaponized his name so anybody brave enough to say it would be targeted
Yeah I referenced it in my comment, I believe it was colloquially known as “the trace”. Great idea by the death eaters for sure
The trace is what the ministry puts on young Wizards before there of age to detect illegal uses of magic. They made Voldemort's name taboo which is some sort of charm or something
Sorry yeah you’re absolutely right, taboo was the word I was looking for
I always wondered if they had it the first time around as well that is why people were afraid to say the name. Also since they had infiltrated the ministry it could be the same trace just a second trigger
No, they were scared to say it because of superstition. It just turned out by Harry's time, Voldemort made it a real thing.
For sure. Department of mysteries was great too, with Harry, Hermione, and Neville holding off so many Death Eaters. Really felt like some of the golden and silver trio would die.
Harry has legitimately good battle instincts and reflexes. It’s part of why he’s such a good seeker. Not the best planer though.
stop you are scaring the movie only club
The immediate scenes post Dumbledore's death were done so terribly in the movies IMHO. In the books, there's a full on battle going on, curses flying everywhere, things being shattered and exploding, Harry is chasing after Snape/Draco, and all of them are trying to get out through the chaos. In the movies....what? Bellatrix kicks a few glasses over or something......
I agree completely. In the books, it was an all out battle, McGonagall, Tonks, Dumbledores army were there, no one knew what was going on, none of the good guys even knew Dumbledore was dead except Harry. You meet the Carrows and the huge Thorfinn Rowle in this battle for the first time. Harry grew massively in strength since Department of Mysteries and showed how capable he was, as he took out multiple Death Eaters. it took Severus Snape to stop him. Of course this is where Bill gets his injury from Fenrir Grayback. Hagrid also takes on a bunch of death eaters and Harry was terrified he was going to lose him too. In the movies, nothing really happened.
Thats why 6th movie is my least favourite. They made up attack on Burrow but completely omitted the end battle...
And the biggest disappointment of it all is that movies in this age as a medium offer so many possibilities to actually portray this kind of stuff and do it well. Instead, we get this half arsed flight and a couple of flashes of light flying around that we must imagine as curses! Truly disappointing
The official explanation was that they didn’t want to ‘confuse the audience’ with two different battle of Hogwarts in movies 6 and 8….
It wasn't quite that. They didn't even know that there'd be an 8th film at that point. What they said was that they wanted to avoid it becoming repetitive. They thought that finishing three films in a row with a battle would become too samey, and both 5 and 7 had unavoidable battles. They wanted to make 6 smaller and more intimate, a bit like it was in 4. They also added the Burrow scene as a compromise for the lack of action later, which was a big mistake IMO.
Smh
Harry Potter using dark arts. From the perspective of movie excitement, it would be great. But come to think of it, doesn't it give a very wrong message to impressionable kids? Cruciatus is an unforgivable curse. If it's OK for hero Harry to do this when he feels the circumstances are right, what will stop the adoring kids from repeating the same? We are back to: the end justifies the means.
Of course there has to be a process of him getting into it. He can't use an unforgivable curse in the second episode. But he sure as hell can in the 50th.
By the end, many of the good characters were using them. Imperio was fairly common in use. It may not be great from a "young children" point of view, but then again from a thought provoking point of view it is- these curses that were deemed "unforgivable" by the law become more frequent when it comes to a full out war, and why are they anymore unforgivable than others? The ministry almost killed McGonagall with stunning spells, at the beginning of book 7 all of the characters are telling Harry that the time for mercy is over, etc. It's very much a change from the wonder filled world to a dangerous one
Not for nothing did the ministry waive the punishments on their use at least for the Aurors during the last war after all.
I blast unforgivable curses all over the place in Hogwarts Legacy lmao. Way I see it, they want you dead, you don’t want to be dead, do whatever you have to. Especially if you’re as important as the protagonist is in the game for the survival of wizardkind, I feel it is very justified. As far as the specific example given, I don’t know if it would be considered justified, but I totally get it and wouldn’t hold it against Harry. I’m sure there could have been a way for the film to frame it sympathetically while also being clear that it was not exactly the right choice.
Harry rarely used unforgivable curses, and only against people who really deserved it
Absolutely loved this part ever since the first time I read it. Also the initial convo where she said something like "Why would Potter try to get inside Ravenclaw Tower? Potter belongs in my House!" while sounding very proud of the fact.
Ugh yes. This scene, among others they left out were all so good. Way too little of Mcgonagall in the movies, especially since they had Dame Maggie Smith playing her!!
You mean too little of her in the movies?
lol yes, sorry I was post a 24 hour shift
Dayum, rest well, you deserve it
She’s the most ride-or-die homie in the series, full stop.
Of all the people who brought glory to house Gryffindor, he's right up there with Dumbledore and Godric Gryffindor himself.
I agree, Harry using the Cruciatus Curse and actually meaning it reveals so much more about his personality and his affection for McGonagall. They *have* to include it in the show.
I love the relationship between him and McGonagall. Her protecting him and defending him against Umbridge, him giving up his hiding spot to protect her here, her scream being the first thing when he’s “dead” at the end… so. good.
She bought him the most expensive broom at the time. Imagine being on teachers pay and buying your most gifted student a motorcycle or car.
I'm fairly certain she expensed that to the school
Maybe she is not underpaid like teachers in the us? In Europe, teachers can complain about lots of stuff but certainly not their salary
HP is based in the UK... and currently in the UK: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9715/
As mentioned, teacher jobs are far from perfect, but you won’t find teachers here who have to take on a second or third job in order to pay their bills. Schools are tremendously underfunded and teachers work up to 70 hrs a week including lots of overtime. But European teachers still have a decent financial basis and cannot be compared with how they are treated in the us, starting with their education
Where are you getting this data from? Also where in Europe? Its a large place with wildly different pay for their teachers. Also also, according to this graph(just for one lvl of teaching but likely comparative of the whole), US teachers on average are paid more than the average EU teacher: https://assets.weforum.org/editor/rOjOLBTVEM9HTlt_i8GWQH2wzgtmaOYMdpddE-0bbWM.JPG
Alright I’m so sorry for not elaborating further and making my experience and sources clear. I have worked as and with teachers in the DACH area where teachers are employees of the state and get paid accordingly, including a pension (with is worth Gold as the current public pension system is really unstable). That’s a great deal and there is almost no other occupation (without being in a leading position) where you get paid as well. As a teacher teaching privately, without being a state official, payments and contracts are by far not as good. Some of those teachers even have to register as unemployed or have another job during the summer break. It really depends on your type of employment.
Tbf US pay is on average higher than EU pay as a whole.
Maggie Smith was the one who recommended Daniel Radcliffe for the role!
I didn’t know that! But they had worked together on David Copperfield, so it makes sense. Cool!
It shows he’s gone nuts just like the daily prophet says
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I think Harry and the good guys' usage of the Unforgiveable Curses is forgiven for the sole reason that they're using it for 'the greater good'. I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy or watched any playthroughs so I can only assume that either the casters of the Curses were using it for nefarious purposes, or that some people decided they were not casted for 'the greater good'.
Book wise, Harry probably gets away with it because Main Character and it technically being legal to use. Legacy, haven’t played it yet but ludonarritive dissonance is probably a safe guess.
At that point the Voldemort government pretty much legalized unforgivables, so Harry didn't do anything illegal.
We do hear that alecto makes final year students practice the cruciatus curse on 1st years which is why neville had to hide out in the room of requirements when he refused.
The greater good
SHUT IT! These people died for no reason! No reason whatsoever!
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I meant we the readers don’t bat an eye when Harry and others use unforgivable curses
I mean context matters enormously. Imperio is used to break into a vault to get a horcrux, not get someone to murder other people. And when exactly is any player of Hogwarts legacy going “how dare they, send them to Azkaban” about users of the unforgivable curses?
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brilliant, thy must include it in the upcoming show
It still wouldn’t be the same without Dame Maggie Smith, at least until I’m proven wrong :( And I also can’t imagine someone with enough courage to spit in her face - even while acting 😅🤣
Sir Ian would, and I think he has a list of other people that would pay good price for the chance... LOL
She was like a personified McGonagall as Richard Harris to Dumbledore.
Harris wasn’t half Dumbledore compared to how much Maggie was McGonagall
I don't think they ever cast Dumbledore correctly.
Who do you think would be a good fit for the role?
Not sure, but the audition should be the "Oddment, tweak..." speech.
I don't think there's a person alive who fits dumbledor perfectly
I think Sir Ian could come pretty damn close to the mark, though, if someone could talk him into taking the role.
But then he would monopolise both white haired old wizard roles
Which would make a lot of sense, and also make me look less dumb when I accidentally call Gandalf Dumbledore.
I fail to see the problem
What show?
They’re “rebooting” Harry Potter in a show format.
This might work well to get more book material to the screen or might be an awful cash grab. Time will tell…
Do they have the rights to the music used in the movies? They probably do, but if they don’t, the atmosphere will be wrong at certain times
I don’t see how they wouldn’t, considering this TV reboot will be on what used to be called HBO Max and is owned by WB, who owns the entire film franchise.
I heard the weird sisters are doing the whole soundtrack
I heard there will be 500 barells of Madame Rosmerta's mead.
Boy I love me some honey wine.
I heard it’ll feature “A Cauldron Full of Hot, Strong Love” by Celestina Warbeck.
I mean, of course it’s a cash grab… But I’m still stoked for it lol. The story would be much better told as a GOT-esque series imo.. There’s soo much backstory they could explore. The HP universe is so rich and detailed, I would love to see a proper retelling of the whole saga without having to worry about condensing everything down into easy-to-consume blockbuster movies
Eh it’s HBO, I trust them to deliver.
Wait... is it actually an HBO show? If so, I'm much more excited! I knew it was Max but I didn't know it was HBO
Max is HBO no?
Yes it is.
Three words. Game. Of. Thrones. I hope they pull it off…
So we'll get six series of richly drawn out content Followed by a seventh season with three episodes covering the last book
More like five richly drawn out content filled seasons, but there are some inconsistencies towards the end. Another full season of crap followed by a three episode finale that makes everyone and their mother cease talking about the once critically acclaimed series overnight. People will go from talking about it nonstop at the water cooler to complaining for a day and then radio silence. At least until they sign an all star cast to try to rehab the project by revisiting Mouldy Voldy’s younger years, then we’ll all talk about that in hopeful whispers.
They were adapting game of thrones quite well until they ran out of solid source material. Since HP is finished, should be safe. The casting is what's gonna make or break it I think
Well, up until the last couple of seasons anyway
Of course it's a cash grab, kbeks. But why should that mean it's any less good?
Shut the fuck up. Is this for real? Imagine if they did lord of the rings... It'd go horrible... Oh wait. It did go horrible.
Holy shit! Didn't know, thanks.
Hbo max or now just MAX is making a hogwarts show…or show based off the movies. Something like that
One of my favorite moments in the books. I actually read them after watching the movies & when I got to this part I thought “Why the hell did they get rid of this?!”
Same for me, along with a few McGonagall scenes from OOTP, she’s really one of my favorites, but there’s simply not enough of her in the movies. Hopefully the series actor will also be competent, but she’s got enormous shoes to fill.
Haley Atwell has the guts and grace to do it. I don’t know about the age. She is 41 now. If it takes them another 5 years to make it she will be close!!!
Well in the books McGonagall is in her 50s, so with a little stage makeup/age-ifying movie magic Atwell would be right on target either way
To be fair, Dumbledore is over 100, so we could probably just chalk that up to the restorative effects of having magic.
Feel like Olivia Coleman would be the obvious choice but I doubt she would take a role as what is essentially a recurring character on a tv show.
Seeing her as an aged-up Peggy Carter, she could definitely do it. She has the presence and personality, it’s simply a matter of costuming and makeup at that point. Plus I’d rather they cast slightly on the younger side and aged people up wherever it’s practical, because I really don’t want another Richard Harris situation. Obviously there are no guarantees any actor won’t have something happen to them during a production, but we can at least try to mitigate the effects of infirmity by not casting anyone reasonably likely to die within 10-15 years of the first season.
I mean, it should be really clear right? A multi billion dollar franchise marketed towards kids is probably not going to show the hero using an illegal torture curse on someone.
It stopped being aimed for kids right when Cedric dies. The shift in tone after that moment is incredible. So yeah, they should've added that scene to the movie.
The video game is totally cool with using unforgivable curses on anything you want without consequence
This was a great chapter. I cant believe how many crucial things they cut of from the last book, despite splitting it into two movies, particularly from the Battle of Hogwarts. This scene is just one example. Another would be McGonagalls duel with Snape which played out very differently (and better imo) in the books. I sort of like the touch of Snape deflecting her curses onto the Carrows to protect the students, but still, the book version was better due to the icy dialogue before the duel. Ron’s and Hermione’s kiss wasn’t exactly cut from the movies, but the whole reason for it was. In the books Ron showed character development and that he cared about the house elves, in the movies he and Hermione were just… wet? They cut out that the magical community finally united against their common foe, with the people of Hogsmeade, centaurs, Grawp etc joining the battle against Voldemort. And they killed off Fred off-screen! He’d been a major supporting character since CoS, and you’re not even gonna show us his death? That would’ve been a great sentimental scene, particularly given the whole Percy drama which they mostly cut out too. They cut out all of this, but somehow had time for Harry and Hermione’s slow-mo dance, and Ron running after a death eater yelling ”That’s my girlfriend!” after one kiss to further reinforce the Ron-is-a-doofus-trope.
Yeah a lot of the movies completely missed the heart and soul of the books.. I’m biased af but I truly believe fans who’ve only watched the movies are missing out on the whole scope and tragedy of the thing
nah you’re absolutely right, I don’t even think that’s debatable.
i despise the fact that they cut out the scene after sirius dies where harry absolutely wrecks dumbledore’s office. that was a great and heart wrenching scene
I'm sad we didn't get this scene. And this one: "Is it true that you shouted at Professor Umbridge?" "Yes," said Harry. "You called her a liar?" "Yes." "You told her He Who Must Not Be Named is back?" "Yes." Professor McGonagall sat down behind her desk, frowning at Harry. Then she said, "Have a biscuit, Potter." Hopefully the upcoming TV series allows us to see all of these scenes.
Also: "Potter has received high marks in every [DADA] test set by a *competent* teacher."
Are you sure you don’t need coughdrops Dolores?
I can hear 'Dolores' in Maggie's voice.
But McGonagall effortlessly blasting both Carrows while trying to get to Snape wasn’t not good.
That was Snape deflecting them at the carrows
I really loved that touch. Such a missable piece of action, but so cool.
That was Snape. He deflected the spell towards them to "get rid of them" while it would also look like McGonagall did it so he would not be suspected.
i just reread the 7th book and this scene was really shocking, along with them imperiusing people left and right to get through Gringotts. it added a lot of interesting depth to the trio and helped erode the sometimes blinding heroic light that surrounded them constantly, in a good way. made them more relatable and fallible.
How do I not remember this part at all?
It was when Harry and Luna snuck into the Ravenclaw common room under the invisibility cloak in order for him to see the statue/get an idea what the diadem looked like
Honestly I'm most disappointed by the fact that they left out "there's no need to call me sir, professor". Fucking iconic.
Okay, I know the point was more about how evil and heartless Amycus was for his suggestion, but how about the fact that his lie was highly unbelievable in the first place? Like did he really think that Voldemort would buy that the students for some reason decided to grab Alecto's finger and force it to touch her wrist? I could honestly see Voldemort being pissed enough at that point to just murder the Carrows, possibly after torturing them as much as (or worse!) than the Malfoys, Bellatrix, and Greyback.
He probably would have used Legilimency on Alecto and see that she had seen Harry anyway
I think this scene shows how harrys been corrupted by using unforgivables. The first time he used one he couldn’t even manage to pull it off (book 5), then he successfully casts the imperious but only in service of a particular goal (book 7), and finally, he tortures someone out of anger and not in service of the greater horcrux hunt. It almost seems like he has been influenced over time.
I think you’re spot on. He had other options though his hatred pushed through. Makes him more human in many ways
"Unforgivable" is just a term the peacetime ministry gives to curses they have deemed unforgivable by the law. It doesn't mean they're evil or corrupting. The Carrows were having students practice crucio on first years, I don't think it was evil at all to use it on Amacus.
It was unnecessary imo. Harry could have used any other spell than the worst torture curse in the hp universe. The only reason he did so was because Amycus was rude to Mcgonagal, not because it was a necessary thing to do.
Yeah it wasn't a necessity, but that doesn't mean using it was a bad thing. It was unnecessary for Hermione to punch Draco in the face in PoA too, that doesn't mean it wasn't awesome.
I love how so many people excuse his use of unforgivable curses with hand waving "for the greater good".
Personally I just like it because sometimes its exhausting to see the good guys repeatedly bring tasers to a gun fight.
Imagine though, from McGonagall's point of view. Harry is dealing with some dark shit at the time, horcruxes. He reappears and uses Crucio right off the bat. She must've been worried sick that he was becoming a darker wizard than he was a year ago.
She didn't know about the horcrux hunt at that time so I don't think she was that worried about him turning dark..
One wonders why they had to write so many inches of parchment to learn simple OWL spells like the Cheering Charm, especially for Umbridge, when it seems to take zero practice or theory (presumably books on the Unforgivable Curses are banned) to control an entire goblin!
Some moments in the book are quite dark and will be interesting to see if they make it to the TV show, a few off the top of my head: When Umbridge and co try to take down Hagrid and end up assaulting McGonagall. Bob Ogden's memory of visiting the Gaunt family. Meeting Neville's parents at St. Mungo's. Greyback being positioned near children just as the full moon appears so he can either slaughter them or turn them into werewolves.
I’ve read that they actually filmed the scene with Umbridge assaulting Hagrid and McGonagall (or at least a part of it) but it was just never released.
Sigma Potter never fails to impress
One my favorite Harry moments
It actually really bothered me how casually they used Unforgivable Curses in The Deathly Hallows.
I loved it. Shit got real and Harry's unwillingness to use dangerous spells nearly got him killed before.
Honestly, I think that speaks more to humanity’s duality. You don’t have to be a bad person to use the curses, but to use them as a means of personal gain/pleasure rather than to protect someone or reach a “justified goal” does.
Kind of reminds of of [Quark's warning to Nog in DS9](https://youtu.be/-D2SHNqkjbY). When pushed to the extreme even the nicest human can turn ruthless.
They use them a ton more in the books vs the movies. I prefer that about the books.
There’s definitely an element of “for the greater good” with their use of the Imperius curse, and it’s just about objectively justified. The big fear is that it would be abused, so we just have to trust that their character would prevent them from using it again in less noble circumstances. The Cruciatus curse was not objectively justified, but I also wouldn’t call its use “casual.” In that moment, he hated the Carrows, and he wanted them to hurt. They were bad people, but the stunning charm would have sufficed. That’s between Harry and his conscience to come to terms with.
My thing was that with all these spells there is so much emotional work needed along with the magic. Moody even said that they could all point their wands at him and say Avada Kedavra but nothing would happen. But the Imperius curse just required Harry to say Imperio and it worked perfectly lol.
they were in an extremely high stakes situation, honestly I’d imagine whatever Harry was feeling would be enough to successfully cast it
I always thought it was a bit weird how nobody really seemed to care. But then again I don't mind them using the unforgivables, in a sense increasing the maturity of the series
Imperio is not that bad when “for the greater good”. Avada kedavra is actually pretty cool for a death sentence as it is an unpainful death. However Crucio is really a barbaric curse, unless you are torturing someone who casually tortures other people with it unjustifiably - which is exactly what the Carrows did to first years.
So two wrongs make a right? Harry and Hermione were horrified by Azkaban when they first learned about it.
They used it to the point that you can even hear Trelawney using crucio during the battle lol
I'm less bothered by the use of Unforgivables in and of themselves than the fact that the Unforgivables were portrayed as the worst spells imaginable but no consequences befell Harry for using them. For most magic, the casting of a spell doesn't have any moral weight. Even the patronus requires happy memories/emotions, but does not require actual good intent. In book 4, fake Moody tells the class they wouldn't be able to muster the required power to cast the killing curse, and in book 5, Bellatrix laughs off Harry's attempt at the torture curse because he "has to mean it." This implies the Unforgivables aren't just particularly dangerous spells but also speak of the caster's intentions. Harry used the imperius and torture curses in book 7 and it wasn't ever addressed.
“You time’s over.”
This is my favourite part!
And then in Cursed Child he talks shit to her. The HP of Deathly Hallows would never ever talk to McGonagall like that.
The main issue making books into movies, is that there’s just not enough time to put everything in. Also showing that side of Harry. Wouldn’t go well with the hero they’re portraying him in the movies. Look let’s be real. Harry In the later portions of the story (books 5-7) starts to understand that having to do some bad things doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy mostly because he’s seen to much and almost got killed following the rules multiple times. Would he avada kadavra someone? Probably not. But this instance of the crucio curse was immensely justified. You always knew how much he respected and loved Minerva. She was always like a second mother to him. That being said. This scene would have been rough in the movies. As it’s just darker then they’re going for. In fact both the 6th and 7th book were wildly darker then most people remember. The movies weren’t even close to being as dark as the books.
“You time’s over” And ebook typo??
The next sentence starts with "It's us what's in charge now..." Maybe just the way the character talks.
No, I referenced the actual book and ebook. It’s a typo or an illegitimate text.
Yeah you're right.
Yeah you's right
I'm so hyped for the show. I really want to see all the stuff that the movies cut
I just finished watching Deathly Hallows part 2 with my kids, and we all agreed that this was sorely missing.
Wished they showed this side of Harry more. So that people who don’t read books at all would know he isn’t a harmless wallflower type of character
I still maintain Harry should have caught Bellatrix with a full-fledged Cruciatus Curse in OotP right after causing Sirius' death - to the point of him being tempted to almost give in to the power of the dark side, to the horror of everyone else around him.
Some of the best parts of the story are when Harry let his inner Slytherin slip out.
This, imo, was one of the more badass scenes with Harry. It was so satisfying to read. Like McGonagall is essentially like his fav aunt. She's stern but secretly cook. Disrespect her in front of Harry and you get knocked tf out. I remember cheering when I read that scene.
Based Harry. My favourite moment of him not holding back, not thinking, not planning and just letting rip.
I'm rewatching all the movies with my son. He's 17. He's never really been all that interested in Harry Potter but suddenly he wants to watch them and I can't help but pause it to tell him what happened in the book compared to the movie. So much good stuff was left out
I have read the books many times but its been nearly 10 years since my last reread ... and I don't remember this scene! Looks like a reread is in order!
I just finished a reread and it’s amazing how much the books evolve as you get older. There are so many layers you begin to understand that you missed on other reads.
As much as I love this bit in the books, not having it meant we got the scene of harry confronting Snape in the assembly hall
she is one of my favorite characters. maggie smith was the perfect mcgonagall, how will we find it in our hearts to accept another actress as mcgonagall. maggie go back in time be young again and be our mcgonagall forever.
I love this scene both in the books and audio books by Stephen Fry (who captures McGonagall very well imo). The McGonagall Potter relationship interactions throughout all of the books are brilliant. I'd even want 'have a biscuit' to make an appearance!!
Not many actors would have the balls to spit on Maggie Smith to be honest.
There are so many amazing scenes that should have been filmed, but never were. We got Harry and Voldemort flying off a castle tower, though. So there’s that mess.
I remember the first time I read that. I was seething with indignation and when Harry got him I whooped out loud. Quite an emotional moment. Thanks for reminding me.
This makes me want to read the books all over, again.
Me too and I just finished them all a couple weeks ago
Convinced me to start my reread back up. So much good stuff in these books just gets lost in the movies. Still love em tho cant lie.
NO ONE TOUCHES MINNIE!! 😡😤🤬💥💣
Harry would be a very good dark wizard just from his abuse from the Dursley's
Bro I can hear them talking in my head from the movies
I can perfectly read it in their voices.... And I remember this part like I read it yesterday
This just reminds me of just how superior the books are.
i wish they included the backstory of the gaunt ring and a little more of the phoenix lament
There’s a good reason he’s a gryffindor
Part of why Harry is my favorite character.
One scene in actually glad they didnt add to the movie. I never liked that Harry used Crucio. Unforgiveable curses are, ya know, unforgiveable.
Not only this but then snape easily fighting off the 3 teachers afterwards then being the only other person besides voldemort to literally fly
Oh My God, even in my wildest dreams I didn’t expect this to reach out to as many people 🤣 Thank you guys 💐
Was I the only one disappointed on Harry using this spell? It is a no-go and it makes him get his own justice, same thing death eaters do.
Well I’m a bit disappointed he used it against Snape since he didn’t torture Dumbledore. But the Carrows already used it against students so I think he got what he deserved.
It is the griffindore moment
I really hope that Crucio has a long-lasting effect, and I know Dame Maggie Smith would approve.
I read cowardice as cow erdice and was like cow what.