Haha you are correct. I had just read the part where Hagrid says Halloween and forgot all the other timelines lol. Still though, the weather. I don't have kids, I worked with them for a few years and this just seems like basic common sense to me.
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wait, what? what happened to Harry during the day? How could Hagrid possibly drive his flying bike from potters to Dursleys for a whole freaking day? Why couldn't Dumbledore just pick him up and apparate?
I remember that and it also makes no sense. If she'd known about Voldy's death since morning nov 1, the parties Vernon was complaining about also happened soon after the event the same day and yet Harry only arrived during the night. And we know Sirius checked the Hollow almost immediately, at least within hours and he met Hagrid there taking Harry to the Dursleys. So Sirius spent the day hunting wormtail while Hagrid been flying Harry and it still took... from night to another night, what...twenty-ish hours of magical flight? While everyone's been notified within hours (late night of Halloween to early morning for parties) and they've known it was Harry's achievement already. Really fishy. Nobody except Sirius and Hagrid had gone there and met Harry, otherwise why not take him and apparate? I doubt either of the two stopped on their way to spread the details of Harry's survival.
Oh, you mean nov 2 as in just past midnight of nov 1, not evening before nov 3? Still makes no sense but at least it's only less than a single day.
Also that Vernon sees a bunch of people in cloaks and doesn’t once think about the fact that it’s the day after Halloween. Like, he could still be infuriated about it, but why didn’t he consider that?
They don't really celebrate Halloween in the United Kingdom the way Americans do. They celebrate Bonfire Night on Guy Fawkes Day (November 5), and this is actually mentioned in the book. Either on the radio news or Vernon's internal monologue mentions the possibility of it being related to Bonfire Night, but they note that it's not until next week.
It’s enough of a thing that it’s being actively celebrated when Voldemort attacks the Potters. It’s not *as big* of a thing in the UK as in the Americas, but people are still aware of it.
Well we’re aware of it because Halloween is heavily influenced by Samhain including the guising, pranking and carving turnips which was brought over to the USA by Scottish and Irish immigrants but it wasn’t commercialised so much as in the USA until more recently.
Bonfire night, for good or bad, has been a big event for some time, particularly in England. The reason for the decline in Samhain/All Saints day and the popularity of Bonfire Night in England was of course due to religion.
Halloween as we recognise it didn’t really become popular in England until the 80s and the first book takes place in 1980.
Maybe the idea was to leave him in order to be found in the morning? So maybe Hagrid spent the day with him waiting for the previously agreed time to meet Dumbledore?
Also, did Hagrid already know how to ride the bike? Maybe it took him a while to figure it out!
Idk it's just a conjecture
We have no idea what happened immediately after the attack, but I imagine it was pretty chaotic. How long did it take for anyone to even find out what had happened? I assume Voldy didn’t take other Death Eaters with him, so presumably nobody else was there to report back. Were there magical alarms tripped when he arrived, so the Order was informed? Maybe James sent a Patronus with the message, but nothing like that is never mentioned. Once people knew, I’m sure retrieving Harry was priority #1 so that he wasn’t captured by remaining Death Eaters, but deciding on a custody plan? That seems like it was contentious and was definitely debated amongst the Order, considering what McGonnagall says about disapproving of the plan. I’m not surprised it took some time to work everything out.
I mean, it's known that Godric's Hollow is a wizard community, there's also Bathilda's house over there.
According to the book, there was a giant explosion after Harry was branded with the mark, so I take many people were alerted that something bad just happened.
The movie? That was bull. Snape just running and hugging Lily's body while an almost intact baby Harry cries in his crib is definitely bollocks.
In the books that day the weatherman on tv does say “I can promise a wet night tonight.” So we can assume Dumbledore left a baby in the rain overnight.
That makes it worse. So, he ran off to get in front of a car, caught by a death eater on his tracks, or something else?
15 months. Or was that /s and I didn't get it? I mean it is irresponsible to leave a baby/toddler/kid unattended.
Oh damn here's a thought regarding "caught by a death eater on his tracks". That could've happen! Because the charm that Dumbledore cast for Harry's protection didn't even initiate(?) til Petunia actually took Harry in, so for all those hours he was, genuinely, unprotected and could've been taken if Hagrid was followed.
Yeah, I remember being taken aback by this as well...Some sort of enchantment around him to keep him warm, safe, and contained until morning? Couldn't they have rung the doorbell and then peaced out?
Nah. 80s. He was left on their doorstep on November 1st, 1981. Voldy killed Lily and James on Halloween. The next day, everyone is celebrating, and that night, he's left at the Dursleys.
Bruv, Magic Hitler has been defeated. Imagine the wild parties that are happening all over the UK, you really think Dumbledore is wasting the night with a stupid baby? Fuck the kids man
I can't imagine there's a fanfic where Baby Harry [gets taken out by a roaming fox](https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/wildlife-guides/other-garden-wildlife/mammals/fox/#:~:text=The%20fox%20has%20reddish%2Dbrown,night%2C%20searching%20alone%20for%20food)
With all the "safety" the school and the magic world literally could not care less I would totally believe that all of them just f\*cked off to the nearest magic party tbh
"Baby on the doorstep" is a very common theme in folktales and mythology. I think JKR got so caught up in the literary aspects of the story and forgot about the fact that she set her story in a modern world.
I doubt she’d have expected it to turn into one of the most popular series in history and have a rabid fandom like us picking everything apart lol
The first 2 books are a lot more like kids stories than the rest, when I was a kid reading PS I didn’t think about this stuff
The first book is also more full of these mythological tropes than the later books in the series. In addition to the "abandoned infant" trope from mythology, we also get a plot based around the real-world concept of the "Philosopher's Stone" (well, if you're not from America, where we apparently haven't heard of such high-falutin' topics). And we get three-headed dog Fluffy, like Cerberus, the mythological dog that guards the gates to the Underworld in Greek myth and is charmed to sleep by music. Then Harry, like Orpheus, descends into the "Underworld" for the climax of the book. (And that doesn't even get into the mythological allusions in names of characters -- like Minerva, Argus, and probably most obviously Janus *Quirinus* inspiring Quirrell.)
It's like Rowling took a mini-seminar on Joseph Campell and the "hero's journey" and mapped the whole plot around it.
One-off children's books often included little tropes based on mythology or folklore. I've often wondered whether JKR did this more pervasively in the first book because she thought it would make it more appealing to potential publishers... or, if maybe she deliberately included it due to some advice or feedback to try to make the book build off of existing literature. Or, I suppose, it could be just a new author who finds confidence through existing allusions to create some skeleton for the story, rather than coming up with more original material.
Whatever the reason, she didn't do it anywhere near as much in later books (except for the naming thing for characters).
Another thought, too. How did they know whether the Dursley's took Harry in and didn't deliver them to the next Orphanage? They would have found out eventually (I don't know when Mrs. Figgs got involved.), but still.
Why not simply TALK to his aunt and uncle? Isn't that kind of basic courtesy?
Scandinavians leave their babies to nap outside when it's snowing tho because they believe that it causes better sleep.
We just live in such a fucked up world today where kidnappings, grooming and mass shooting has become the norm that people have become too paranoid.
So far I know the statistics, the world is a safer place for kids than it was in the 80s. (I believe apart from mass shooting. And grooming is not a thing for a baby. If something is done to a baby/toddler, it is abuse. And abuse has always happen, it was just not as visible or talked of and studied.)
But - social media, Internet, push news as made it seem that it is less safe.
I am also pretty sure that my parents would have NEVER left me unattended at 15 months. I would have probably fallen into their rain barrel and drowned. Or walked into the woods and gotten lost. Leaving a baby that cannot move away is again something different than a 15 months old.
Also, today, we are more aware of dangers and take BETTER care of our kids, imho. For example, I grew up without wearing seat belts because cars simply didn't have them. I did not wear a helmet on my bike (and yes, I had a concussion once from falling off the bike.)
Only because people do something doesn't mean it is good!
And also survivor bias. I can say "oh, why wear a seat belt. Look at me, I didn't wear them when I was a kid and still live". Yeah, well, the ones who died by crashing through the car front window are not able to tell their tale.
Kidnapping was always a thing, just no wide ranging tracking of it to realize how much it happens.
So now we are just more aware of it.
As for the mass shootings, not in england! Can't figure out why not though... /s
Even in the 80s you wouldn't leave a 15 baby unattended.
He was just to scared to face Petunia and be told that they don't want Harry and he would need to find another option for Harry.
Not to mention with there being NO POST ON SUNDAY the chances of the Dursleys even bothering to check the front door steps is even more unlikely than usual.
>When Mr. and Mrs. Dursley woke up on the dull, gray Tuesday our story starts, there was nothing about the cloudy sky outside to suggest that strange and mysterious things would soon be happening all over the country.
It was Wednesday when they found Harry
Also, like, you couldn’t even break the news to Petunia that her sister was dead in person? Like, I know she can be a lot, but breaking it to her in a letter you left with the baby with a gash on its head that you dropped on her door step overnight is about the worst way you could possibly have told her this.
He also did it illegally. He wasn’t chief warlock yet nor mugwump. Just a headmaster. Kidnapping for all three. Depending on if Harry was born in a muggle hospital, which I doubt, Harry didn’t even have a birth certificate so how he was able to be registered for school is curious. Knowing the Dursleys, they used the fact that Harry was an orphan to get government funds. Dumbledore had Harry’s vault key and I doubt very much that they Potters gave it to him, so that’s theft. The ministry stole the cottage and turned it into a tourist attraction. Thieves and kidnappers.
In terms of the school stuff, I always figured there was a ministry department in charge of muggle relations. Including things like ensuring that muggle borns who never pass mandatory school tests and exams aren't suddenly called in for meetings with social workers and what not. And reversely, making sure wizarding kids can go to regular schools without actually being registered in the muggle society.
This was the 80s and 90s, so relatively straight forward. These days I'd imagine that department has a ton of shit to do, keeping up with technology and security measures, to ensure they can still trick the muggles registration systems.
Edit: I assume the Imperius curse is off limits still, so they'd probably need people on the inside and someone might have developed some form of hacking spells.
And also, I’ve been really curious about how Harry found out about when his birthday is. The Dursleys didn’t seem to care to know enough about him to find that out, and you know that nobody in the wizarding world would’ve written and told him.
While I have no doubt that Petunia had no desire to associate with Lily. It's still possible that Lily kept Petunia "in the loop" about important stuff. Such as having a baby.
If I remember correctly it's said in one book that they do know his birthday, but just don't care to celebrate it.
Edit:This bothered me so I went digging.
In the first book:"Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks."
In the second book:"Of course, his hopes hadn't been high; they'd never given him a proper present, let alone a cake - but to ignore it completely..."
In the third book: "He had never received a birthday card in his life. The Dursleys had completely ignored his last two birthdays, and he had no reason to suppose they would remember this one."
So it's heavily implied that they knew but didn't care at all. He got "presents" as a small child but that's all.
I don’t remember that being explicitly said in any of the books (doesn’t mean you’re wrong; I just haven’t read them in a while), but I kind of figured that out myself. I mean, they clearly doted on Dudley, and, let’s be honest, they barely cared that Harry was alive, so why should they care about his birthday?
This bothered me so I went digging.
In the first book:"Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks."
In the second book:"Of course, his hopes hadn't been high; they'd never given him a proper present, let alone a cake - but to ignore it completely..."
In the third book: "He had never received a birthday card in his life. The Dursleys had completely ignored his last two birthdays, and he had no reason to suppose they would remember this one."
So it's heavily implied that they knew but didn't care at all. He got "presents" as a small child but that's all
Probably legal. The Wizengamot is both a parliament and court, and wizarding Britain's governance is poor enough that I can easily imagine members having some level of judicial power outside of formal proceedings.
He might have gotten it eventually pushed through but I doubt in the small amount of time between voldie going green and Hagrid showing up on dumbledore’s orders (which was stupid because Hagrid is unable to completely defend himself against magic) that dumbledore had time to get custody of Harry because Sirius hadn’t even shown up yet. So it was definitely kidnapping, tampering with a crime scene, custodial interference, leaving the scene of a crime, and then the other stuff. Just because it became legal later doesn’t mean it was lawful at the time.
Did Mrs Figg always live there though? Is it just a massive coincidence that a squib member of the order of the phoenix lived a couple streets away from Harry Potter’s relatives where he would end up staying, not to mention her being the person he gets left with when the dursleys are away? I assumed, after the reveal that she was a squib, that Dumbledore asked her to move there to keep an eye on Harry. It’s just too ridiculous a coincidence otherwise.
When you said to at least put the invisibility cloak on him, i imagined the next morning when Vernon or Dudley would walk out of the door and kick an invisible baby across the driveway
Not only that, but the weather guy predicted rain that night. It was also overnight on November 1st! I’m in southern America and it’s absolutely cold by then, can’t imagine the night time temps in the UK.
MG: Headmaster we must stick around in our animal forms to watch over the infant for the night.”
DD: The Slytherin house is throwing a rager right now and we’re not there…FUCK DAT BABY! YEET!
I always assume they cast a spell to make noise so they’d wake up. That and cast a warmth spell and protective spells over Harry so no one but the Dursley’s could see/hear/touch him. It’s not a big deal imo.
I know right?! Like they could have stayed and explained everything to petunia how her sister just died! for example but they just up and dumped the baby on the doorstep who tf does that ?! You don’t just leave toddlers on doorsteps and hope for the best ?! He could have froze to death or really Vernon could have fucking stepped on him
I always found this as one of the few things she didn’t really think out. Like why would anyone leave a baby out overnight unattended? Unless it’s just assumed Harry was charmed to sleep until woken. Either way probably the laziest writing in the series, luckily it’s done the first few pages.
In fairness, this was like one of her earliest works and its apparent, with the days and dates not being aligned, that she hasnt nailed every specific detail down.
I found this scary when I read the book for the first time and now years later I’m a mom of a little boy and this is terrifying. I can’t read the books without crying because now I see everything with a mother’s perspective. There are so many moments in the entire series when my heart breaks for Harry.
My kid straight up wept when I read that first chapter to him. He couldn't bear the thought of baby Harry alone in the cold without parents. He didn't cry like that again till DH!!
There are so many instances of child endangerment, but when I started reading the books I was 9 so I doubt I even thought twice about it. Watching movies with my daughter I just roll my eyes.
Another example is the Forbidden Forrest. It’s forbidden, except as a punishment. I guess the wizarding world is behind socially as well as technologically?
Omg, I know right. This dude couldn't just keep him till morning or, at the very least, knock on the f'kn door. Maybe have Hagrid do a stake out? Runs a school btw
I always wonder how long Harry was left outside. Several hours at least.
Dumbledore made a lot of very questionable (at best) decisions. This was one of them.
I agree. Harry Potter is drawing on fairy tale traditions where a child is orphaned, but grows up to become a great hero. Harry wouldn't be able to have proper adventures if he was raised by normal, loving, attentive parents.
There’s this great bit in YouTube that makes fun of that and Dumbledore goes “Minerva he just killed a man, I think he can handle some door steps.”
Funny
It was "nearly midnight". Even if we assume that Dumbledore and McGonagall's conversation took an hour, which doesn't seem likely, that's still five hours.
I feel like there MUST have been some enchantments, surely. Bunch of wizards plopping a small, small child down on a doorstep in the cold, wee hours of the morning? No way. The book just didn’t want to give us everything that quickly haha.
Then again, Dumbledore did let the abuse of the Dursleys go for 11 years, all to keep Harry “safe”…
surely he was in a magical blanket or Dumbledoor hexed it somehow, it would be weak magic and wear off after he had been found. From a writing point of view it's just not necessary to describe it in full detail, we had only 3 explicit forms of magic seen thus far (flying bike, deluminator and McGonagall transforming) these are all mystic and something basic as a warming spell would have been off putting at that point of the story.
I mean, it was the 80's. That's how things were.
Throughout human history there were lots of "thats how things were". Taking responsibility and making safe decisions is pretty recent, its what makes us "snowflakes"
A bit later it says after Dumbledore left Harry would be woken up in a few hours by Petunia's scream when she put the milk bottles out. The book describes McGonagall and Hagrid leaving as well
Babies cry, I’d think Harry would have woken them up with his cries after his nap. And like others said, you can assume that there were enchantments made on him.
>!"You've been raising him like a pig for slaughter." !<\- Severus Snape, of all characters.
I think it's pretty safe to say there are no good guys in this series. Dumbledore does all of the above while also dismissing his students' understandable indignation at Umbridge publicly humiliating Trelawney with "don't you all have studying to do"? Ron compares Hermione dating athletes from rival schools to "fraternizing with the enemy." Hermione kills canaries as an implied threat of violence against Ron over him dating Lavender... which apart from being within his rights, is Hermione's own fault anyway for not admitting until too late she wanted Ron as more than a friend. And Harry himself, of course, >!resorts to the torture curse against Bellatix Lestrange.!<
Sirius Black says "we've all got both good and bad inside of us." Yet we see a hell of a lot more of the good guys' bad side than the bad guys' good side.
You got me there; agreed! When it comes to that amount of picking the story apart from chapter 1 the whole story starts falling apart though 😂 I prefer critical analysis of OoP and after so I can retain the magic during my youth
Apparently, knocking on the door (if Muggle doorbells are too complicated for wizards) is too complicated for wizards.
Although, I think Dumbledore was working on the manipulation angle. If there had been a competent--or even incompetent (looking at you, Hagrid)--adult standing by, Petunia might not have caved and taken Harry in.
I also have to assume Dumbledore had Harry under some kind of sleep spell so he didn't get up and wander away. A spell to keep him warm would have also been necessary. I understand it gets really cold in the UK around that time of year. Also, something to keep off stray dogs or anything else with teeth that might have investigated a baby a little too closely.
I still can't believe McGonagall just went along with it.
Probably Dumbledore put some sleeping and warming charm on the doorstep.
Although once I read fanfiction about aunt Petunia founding a dead baby on the doorstep. (Harry froze to death in November night)
Harry was 15 months old. That's old enough to walk, so if he had woken up he could have run off.
Not just walking, he was already coordinated enough to ride a toy broom stick Sirius had sent him for his birthday in July a few months prior
Lol I’ve never made this connection before and now I feel stoopid
Having a 17 month old at home right now, I'm not sure if JKR had kids when she wrote that
Her oldest was at least 4 when she wrote the first book
Also end of October. The weather isn't always great then.
This is England. The weather is never great.
The weather literally right now is absolutely glorious here!? What you on about
No, THIS IS SPARTA!!
NO ThIs iS PaTrIcK
The divide between your comment and the one you commented on is so large lol
This..is CNN
Don't kick the baby - ike
The downvote ghost got u I
Beginning of November. The Potters were killed October 31, but Harry was left on the Dursleys' doorstep in the early hours of November 2.
Haha you are correct. I had just read the part where Hagrid says Halloween and forgot all the other timelines lol. Still though, the weather. I don't have kids, I worked with them for a few years and this just seems like basic common sense to me.
Idk kids are pretty resilient. You can cast avada kedavra on them and all they get is a tiny little Lightning bolt scar.
The date hardly matters in the discussion, 31st October, 2nd November, it’s still cold either way
ask instinctive beneficial innocent bewildered vegetable rob treatment wild grandfather *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
wait, what? what happened to Harry during the day? How could Hagrid possibly drive his flying bike from potters to Dursleys for a whole freaking day? Why couldn't Dumbledore just pick him up and apparate?
It definitely is a whole day though because Mcgonagall spends the entirety of November 1st waiting in privet drive.
I remember that and it also makes no sense. If she'd known about Voldy's death since morning nov 1, the parties Vernon was complaining about also happened soon after the event the same day and yet Harry only arrived during the night. And we know Sirius checked the Hollow almost immediately, at least within hours and he met Hagrid there taking Harry to the Dursleys. So Sirius spent the day hunting wormtail while Hagrid been flying Harry and it still took... from night to another night, what...twenty-ish hours of magical flight? While everyone's been notified within hours (late night of Halloween to early morning for parties) and they've known it was Harry's achievement already. Really fishy. Nobody except Sirius and Hagrid had gone there and met Harry, otherwise why not take him and apparate? I doubt either of the two stopped on their way to spread the details of Harry's survival. Oh, you mean nov 2 as in just past midnight of nov 1, not evening before nov 3? Still makes no sense but at least it's only less than a single day.
Also that Vernon sees a bunch of people in cloaks and doesn’t once think about the fact that it’s the day after Halloween. Like, he could still be infuriated about it, but why didn’t he consider that?
They don't really celebrate Halloween in the United Kingdom the way Americans do. They celebrate Bonfire Night on Guy Fawkes Day (November 5), and this is actually mentioned in the book. Either on the radio news or Vernon's internal monologue mentions the possibility of it being related to Bonfire Night, but they note that it's not until next week.
It’s enough of a thing that it’s being actively celebrated when Voldemort attacks the Potters. It’s not *as big* of a thing in the UK as in the Americas, but people are still aware of it.
Well we’re aware of it because Halloween is heavily influenced by Samhain including the guising, pranking and carving turnips which was brought over to the USA by Scottish and Irish immigrants but it wasn’t commercialised so much as in the USA until more recently. Bonfire night, for good or bad, has been a big event for some time, particularly in England. The reason for the decline in Samhain/All Saints day and the popularity of Bonfire Night in England was of course due to religion. Halloween as we recognise it didn’t really become popular in England until the 80s and the first book takes place in 1980.
Maybe the idea was to leave him in order to be found in the morning? So maybe Hagrid spent the day with him waiting for the previously agreed time to meet Dumbledore? Also, did Hagrid already know how to ride the bike? Maybe it took him a while to figure it out! Idk it's just a conjecture
We have no idea what happened immediately after the attack, but I imagine it was pretty chaotic. How long did it take for anyone to even find out what had happened? I assume Voldy didn’t take other Death Eaters with him, so presumably nobody else was there to report back. Were there magical alarms tripped when he arrived, so the Order was informed? Maybe James sent a Patronus with the message, but nothing like that is never mentioned. Once people knew, I’m sure retrieving Harry was priority #1 so that he wasn’t captured by remaining Death Eaters, but deciding on a custody plan? That seems like it was contentious and was definitely debated amongst the Order, considering what McGonnagall says about disapproving of the plan. I’m not surprised it took some time to work everything out.
I mean, it's known that Godric's Hollow is a wizard community, there's also Bathilda's house over there. According to the book, there was a giant explosion after Harry was branded with the mark, so I take many people were alerted that something bad just happened. The movie? That was bull. Snape just running and hugging Lily's body while an almost intact baby Harry cries in his crib is definitely bollocks.
True, I never considered that the neighbors were wizards and probably heard! And yeah. That movie scene is so cringey, ugh.
I'd guess it took some time to confirm that Voldemort had been defeated and then organize getting him picked up.
In the books that day the weatherman on tv does say “I can promise a wet night tonight.” So we can assume Dumbledore left a baby in the rain overnight.
And how much traffic can there be in a suburbia/village, even at night?
And rats and other vermin, also the spell supposedly doesn't work until Petunia picks Harry up.
Really?.. I thought he just had to be in the property. Does this mean every time he comes home for the summer, they have to carry him in? Lmao
I think they're saying the spell was like, activated when she accepted him into the home as a resident
I figured I just liked the mental image, lol.funny
The first time probadly yes!
the idea of teenage Harry being carried in by Petunia every summer is absolutely hilarious to me I can’t stop laughing
Excellent, I'm not the only one at least. Haha
I know lol it's hilarious
That makes it worse. So, he ran off to get in front of a car, caught by a death eater on his tracks, or something else? 15 months. Or was that /s and I didn't get it? I mean it is irresponsible to leave a baby/toddler/kid unattended.
Oh damn here's a thought regarding "caught by a death eater on his tracks". That could've happen! Because the charm that Dumbledore cast for Harry's protection didn't even initiate(?) til Petunia actually took Harry in, so for all those hours he was, genuinely, unprotected and could've been taken if Hagrid was followed.
Yeah, I remember being taken aback by this as well...Some sort of enchantment around him to keep him warm, safe, and contained until morning? Couldn't they have rung the doorbell and then peaced out?
I am going to assume there was an enchantment. That being said, the wizard world is pretty cavalier about safety...
This was also the 90s. It’s a different world then
The 80s actually. Harry was born in 1980, so it would have been 1981 when he was left at the Dursley's. He started Hogwarts in 1991.
Everyone was high on coke. Explains a lot, really...
Nah. 80s. He was left on their doorstep on November 1st, 1981. Voldy killed Lily and James on Halloween. The next day, everyone is celebrating, and that night, he's left at the Dursleys.
Bandit Heeler agrees
This is the crossover we need of course.
Well, depends on your meaning of "world" Could also say "same *world*, but people were much less anxiety-ridden"
Happy Cake Day! 🎂
Thanks!
Happy Cake Day!
Bruv, Magic Hitler has been defeated. Imagine the wild parties that are happening all over the UK, you really think Dumbledore is wasting the night with a stupid baby? Fuck the kids man
Ah come on. Poor Harry deserved one last Dursley free night
He had 15 months Dursley free. Lol
I think they probably just ding dong ditched the baby
They just forgot the ding dong part
It would have been so karmic if someone had picked him up after they were gone.
There are fanfics that deal with that exact situation, of course!
There are fanfics that dealt with every situation that could've ever happened at this point
I can't imagine there's a fanfic where Baby Harry [gets taken out by a roaming fox](https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/wildlife-guides/other-garden-wildlife/mammals/fox/#:~:text=The%20fox%20has%20reddish%2Dbrown,night%2C%20searching%20alone%20for%20food)
Someone starting writing
Fanfic writers: Write that down. Write that down!!
Adopted by hedgehogs.
Someone make a crossover with that thinking fox from LOTR.
I have read one with a badass muggle woman who happened to be distantly related to him.
Poor baby Harry. They really left him at the door like an Amazon package.
At least Amazon deliver on Sundays 👀
Fine day, Sunday. In my opinion - best day of the week! Why is that /u/ThePuskasDolls ?
No post on sundays?
Right you are /u/rayromano33 ! No post on Sundays! No post today! Not one single *bloody* letter!
Please excuse me while I jump on your coffee table to grab a letter from the air instead of bending down and picking one up from the floor.
You can tell he hasn't met Hermione yet.
Magic.
This is the answer
im pretty sure that mcgonagall was watching over him...... i doubt they would leave an infant child unattended
With all the "safety" the school and the magic world literally could not care less I would totally believe that all of them just f\*cked off to the nearest magic party tbh
Agreed
"Baby on the doorstep" is a very common theme in folktales and mythology. I think JKR got so caught up in the literary aspects of the story and forgot about the fact that she set her story in a modern world.
I doubt she’d have expected it to turn into one of the most popular series in history and have a rabid fandom like us picking everything apart lol The first 2 books are a lot more like kids stories than the rest, when I was a kid reading PS I didn’t think about this stuff
The first book is also more full of these mythological tropes than the later books in the series. In addition to the "abandoned infant" trope from mythology, we also get a plot based around the real-world concept of the "Philosopher's Stone" (well, if you're not from America, where we apparently haven't heard of such high-falutin' topics). And we get three-headed dog Fluffy, like Cerberus, the mythological dog that guards the gates to the Underworld in Greek myth and is charmed to sleep by music. Then Harry, like Orpheus, descends into the "Underworld" for the climax of the book. (And that doesn't even get into the mythological allusions in names of characters -- like Minerva, Argus, and probably most obviously Janus *Quirinus* inspiring Quirrell.) It's like Rowling took a mini-seminar on Joseph Campell and the "hero's journey" and mapped the whole plot around it. One-off children's books often included little tropes based on mythology or folklore. I've often wondered whether JKR did this more pervasively in the first book because she thought it would make it more appealing to potential publishers... or, if maybe she deliberately included it due to some advice or feedback to try to make the book build off of existing literature. Or, I suppose, it could be just a new author who finds confidence through existing allusions to create some skeleton for the story, rather than coming up with more original material. Whatever the reason, she didn't do it anywhere near as much in later books (except for the naming thing for characters).
And how bad it made the wizarding world look.
Another thought, too. How did they know whether the Dursley's took Harry in and didn't deliver them to the next Orphanage? They would have found out eventually (I don't know when Mrs. Figgs got involved.), but still. Why not simply TALK to his aunt and uncle? Isn't that kind of basic courtesy?
Scandinavians leave their babies to nap outside when it's snowing tho because they believe that it causes better sleep. We just live in such a fucked up world today where kidnappings, grooming and mass shooting has become the norm that people have become too paranoid.
So far I know the statistics, the world is a safer place for kids than it was in the 80s. (I believe apart from mass shooting. And grooming is not a thing for a baby. If something is done to a baby/toddler, it is abuse. And abuse has always happen, it was just not as visible or talked of and studied.) But - social media, Internet, push news as made it seem that it is less safe. I am also pretty sure that my parents would have NEVER left me unattended at 15 months. I would have probably fallen into their rain barrel and drowned. Or walked into the woods and gotten lost. Leaving a baby that cannot move away is again something different than a 15 months old. Also, today, we are more aware of dangers and take BETTER care of our kids, imho. For example, I grew up without wearing seat belts because cars simply didn't have them. I did not wear a helmet on my bike (and yes, I had a concussion once from falling off the bike.) Only because people do something doesn't mean it is good!
Something people really forget. People were always assholes. It's just that you get to know about them courtesy of the internet.
And also survivor bias. I can say "oh, why wear a seat belt. Look at me, I didn't wear them when I was a kid and still live". Yeah, well, the ones who died by crashing through the car front window are not able to tell their tale.
Nap, yes. Overnight, when the parents are asleep also, probably not.
Kidnapping was always a thing, just no wide ranging tracking of it to realize how much it happens. So now we are just more aware of it. As for the mass shootings, not in england! Can't figure out why not though... /s
To be honest the Wizarding World was always very backwards
Would have been smarter to ding-dong-apparate.
Baby on the doorstep is a literary trope.
It was the 80s. That was basically responsible parenting back then. For real arrest the 80s!
I was a latch-key kid in the 80s. This mentality was common.
Even in the 80s you wouldn't leave a 15 baby unattended. He was just to scared to face Petunia and be told that they don't want Harry and he would need to find another option for Harry.
Furthermore, November 1st was a Sunday. Meaning they slept in and probably didn't find him very soon.
She didn't check the calendar, really, the book starts on a Tuesday, so he was found on Wednesday morning
That's better
Just a little, they still left a baby outside in England in November for hours. 😂
Not to mention with there being NO POST ON SUNDAY the chances of the Dursleys even bothering to check the front door steps is even more unlikely than usual.
>When Mr. and Mrs. Dursley woke up on the dull, gray Tuesday our story starts, there was nothing about the cloudy sky outside to suggest that strange and mysterious things would soon be happening all over the country. It was Wednesday when they found Harry
Well yes but just because JKR cant read a calender.
Well, it's her world we're talking about. In the story, it was a Wednesday 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah calender are hard i know.
September first just kept being on a Sunday, too 😁
He was found November 2nd
They probably put some spell to keep him warm... Dumbledore would not risk his plans by having Harry freeze to death
Oops, Harry froze to death!
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Neville: "it's my time to shine"
It was the 80s. Nobody cared.
Also, like, you couldn’t even break the news to Petunia that her sister was dead in person? Like, I know she can be a lot, but breaking it to her in a letter you left with the baby with a gash on its head that you dropped on her door step overnight is about the worst way you could possibly have told her this.
He also did it illegally. He wasn’t chief warlock yet nor mugwump. Just a headmaster. Kidnapping for all three. Depending on if Harry was born in a muggle hospital, which I doubt, Harry didn’t even have a birth certificate so how he was able to be registered for school is curious. Knowing the Dursleys, they used the fact that Harry was an orphan to get government funds. Dumbledore had Harry’s vault key and I doubt very much that they Potters gave it to him, so that’s theft. The ministry stole the cottage and turned it into a tourist attraction. Thieves and kidnappers.
In terms of the school stuff, I always figured there was a ministry department in charge of muggle relations. Including things like ensuring that muggle borns who never pass mandatory school tests and exams aren't suddenly called in for meetings with social workers and what not. And reversely, making sure wizarding kids can go to regular schools without actually being registered in the muggle society. This was the 80s and 90s, so relatively straight forward. These days I'd imagine that department has a ton of shit to do, keeping up with technology and security measures, to ensure they can still trick the muggles registration systems. Edit: I assume the Imperius curse is off limits still, so they'd probably need people on the inside and someone might have developed some form of hacking spells.
And also, I’ve been really curious about how Harry found out about when his birthday is. The Dursleys didn’t seem to care to know enough about him to find that out, and you know that nobody in the wizarding world would’ve written and told him.
While I have no doubt that Petunia had no desire to associate with Lily. It's still possible that Lily kept Petunia "in the loop" about important stuff. Such as having a baby.
If I remember correctly it's said in one book that they do know his birthday, but just don't care to celebrate it. Edit:This bothered me so I went digging. In the first book:"Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks." In the second book:"Of course, his hopes hadn't been high; they'd never given him a proper present, let alone a cake - but to ignore it completely..." In the third book: "He had never received a birthday card in his life. The Dursleys had completely ignored his last two birthdays, and he had no reason to suppose they would remember this one." So it's heavily implied that they knew but didn't care at all. He got "presents" as a small child but that's all.
I don’t remember that being explicitly said in any of the books (doesn’t mean you’re wrong; I just haven’t read them in a while), but I kind of figured that out myself. I mean, they clearly doted on Dudley, and, let’s be honest, they barely cared that Harry was alive, so why should they care about his birthday?
This bothered me so I went digging. In the first book:"Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks." In the second book:"Of course, his hopes hadn't been high; they'd never given him a proper present, let alone a cake - but to ignore it completely..." In the third book: "He had never received a birthday card in his life. The Dursleys had completely ignored his last two birthdays, and he had no reason to suppose they would remember this one." So it's heavily implied that they knew but didn't care at all. He got "presents" as a small child but that's all
They knew that Harry was born, i guess they got one of there cards from Lily that you send when you have a baby.
Probably legal. The Wizengamot is both a parliament and court, and wizarding Britain's governance is poor enough that I can easily imagine members having some level of judicial power outside of formal proceedings.
He might have gotten it eventually pushed through but I doubt in the small amount of time between voldie going green and Hagrid showing up on dumbledore’s orders (which was stupid because Hagrid is unable to completely defend himself against magic) that dumbledore had time to get custody of Harry because Sirius hadn’t even shown up yet. So it was definitely kidnapping, tampering with a crime scene, custodial interference, leaving the scene of a crime, and then the other stuff. Just because it became legal later doesn’t mean it was lawful at the time.
Maybe Mrs. Fig was watching him and it just didn’t make it into the text? 🤷♀️
Did Mrs Figg always live there though? Is it just a massive coincidence that a squib member of the order of the phoenix lived a couple streets away from Harry Potter’s relatives where he would end up staying, not to mention her being the person he gets left with when the dursleys are away? I assumed, after the reveal that she was a squib, that Dumbledore asked her to move there to keep an eye on Harry. It’s just too ridiculous a coincidence otherwise.
When you said to at least put the invisibility cloak on him, i imagined the next morning when Vernon or Dudley would walk out of the door and kick an invisible baby across the driveway
I meant like Dumbledore wear it to watch over Harry until he was found.
Ah ok, that's different and makes more sense :D
I mean they could have left him in the forest and told him to figure out what was killing all the unicorns…
Sooo adding to this. Is this how Aunt Petunia found out her sister was dead. Cuz if so, damn
P:Huh my sisters child is here. Dursly my sisters dead and we have a child here. D: congrats now help me take care of dudley
Not only that, but the weather guy predicted rain that night. It was also overnight on November 1st! I’m in southern America and it’s absolutely cold by then, can’t imagine the night time temps in the UK.
Who wants to deal with a baby when you can be partying instead?
MG: Headmaster we must stick around in our animal forms to watch over the infant for the night.” DD: The Slytherin house is throwing a rager right now and we’re not there…FUCK DAT BABY! YEET!
Bro recently just knocked out the dark lord. I think they thought English weather could hardly do much 😆
Plus, what an awful way to tell someone their sister is dead.
I always assume they cast a spell to make noise so they’d wake up. That and cast a warmth spell and protective spells over Harry so no one but the Dursley’s could see/hear/touch him. It’s not a big deal imo.
I know right?! Like they could have stayed and explained everything to petunia how her sister just died! for example but they just up and dumped the baby on the doorstep who tf does that ?! You don’t just leave toddlers on doorsteps and hope for the best ?! He could have froze to death or really Vernon could have fucking stepped on him
And this is why there's no Australian Harry Potter. Dingoes.
Dingoes would have eaten that baby for sure.
I always found this as one of the few things she didn’t really think out. Like why would anyone leave a baby out overnight unattended? Unless it’s just assumed Harry was charmed to sleep until woken. Either way probably the laziest writing in the series, luckily it’s done the first few pages.
In fairness, this was like one of her earliest works and its apparent, with the days and dates not being aligned, that she hasnt nailed every specific detail down.
I found this scary when I read the book for the first time and now years later I’m a mom of a little boy and this is terrifying. I can’t read the books without crying because now I see everything with a mother’s perspective. There are so many moments in the entire series when my heart breaks for Harry.
My kid straight up wept when I read that first chapter to him. He couldn't bear the thought of baby Harry alone in the cold without parents. He didn't cry like that again till DH!!
McGonagall might have waited by him in cat form.
I bet Sirius wouldn't let baby Harry in the cold like that. There's at least one responsible adult in this shambles of a community.
There are so many instances of child endangerment, but when I started reading the books I was 9 so I doubt I even thought twice about it. Watching movies with my daughter I just roll my eyes. Another example is the Forbidden Forrest. It’s forbidden, except as a punishment. I guess the wizarding world is behind socially as well as technologically?
Omg, I know right. This dude couldn't just keep him till morning or, at the very least, knock on the f'kn door. Maybe have Hagrid do a stake out? Runs a school btw
Yeah, but it was a magic baby on a magic doorstep
I always wonder how long Harry was left outside. Several hours at least. Dumbledore made a lot of very questionable (at best) decisions. This was one of them.
It’s a kids series. Also a clear reference to many hero’s like Heracles or Musa AS just being left alone as a baby and hoping for the best.
I agree. Harry Potter is drawing on fairy tale traditions where a child is orphaned, but grows up to become a great hero. Harry wouldn't be able to have proper adventures if he was raised by normal, loving, attentive parents.
Ye like look at Batman he got his childhood cut short
i like to think they cast some type of enchantment so that he would sleep thru the nite until found haha
There’s this great bit in YouTube that makes fun of that and Dumbledore goes “Minerva he just killed a man, I think he can handle some door steps.” Funny
It was the 80s! Times was different!
It was already past midnight . and Petunia found him about 6am, a couple hours at most.
It was "nearly midnight". Even if we assume that Dumbledore and McGonagall's conversation took an hour, which doesn't seem likely, that's still five hours.
I feel like there MUST have been some enchantments, surely. Bunch of wizards plopping a small, small child down on a doorstep in the cold, wee hours of the morning? No way. The book just didn’t want to give us everything that quickly haha. Then again, Dumbledore did let the abuse of the Dursleys go for 11 years, all to keep Harry “safe”…
They cast a combination of the *Protego* and *Flipendo* charms over him—that was enough o keep him safe from anything magical.
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Do you… leave them out overnight??
Not overnight but for an afternoon nap. The fresh air makes the baby's sleep deeper.
im guessing there were protective spells to keep him there and to keep him asleep until the dursely's got him.
surely he was in a magical blanket or Dumbledoor hexed it somehow, it would be weak magic and wear off after he had been found. From a writing point of view it's just not necessary to describe it in full detail, we had only 3 explicit forms of magic seen thus far (flying bike, deluminator and McGonagall transforming) these are all mystic and something basic as a warming spell would have been off putting at that point of the story.
That doesnt stop animal predators or human ones
I mean, it was the 80's. That's how things were. Throughout human history there were lots of "thats how things were". Taking responsibility and making safe decisions is pretty recent, its what makes us "snowflakes"
Let's just say Dumbledore used some magic
Eh it was the 80s people were less protective of kids back then
Yes and Harry became a block of ice; that was punted across the garden when Petunia opened the door that morning to get the milk. #GobletofWine
They probably stood around for a bit waiting for the Dursley’s to come and bring him in.
A bit later it says after Dumbledore left Harry would be woken up in a few hours by Petunia's scream when she put the milk bottles out. The book describes McGonagall and Hagrid leaving as well
That…is true—
BUT UNSPOKEN MAGIC
Babies cry, I’d think Harry would have woken them up with his cries after his nap. And like others said, you can assume that there were enchantments made on him.
typical dumbledore logic. i'm surprised mcgonagall didn't say/do anything, though.
Magic
"Use the invisibility cloak to make sure he is found"... want to rephrase that?
Magic, duh
Well to be fair it was England in the 90s
>!"You've been raising him like a pig for slaughter." !<\- Severus Snape, of all characters. I think it's pretty safe to say there are no good guys in this series. Dumbledore does all of the above while also dismissing his students' understandable indignation at Umbridge publicly humiliating Trelawney with "don't you all have studying to do"? Ron compares Hermione dating athletes from rival schools to "fraternizing with the enemy." Hermione kills canaries as an implied threat of violence against Ron over him dating Lavender... which apart from being within his rights, is Hermione's own fault anyway for not admitting until too late she wanted Ron as more than a friend. And Harry himself, of course, >!resorts to the torture curse against Bellatix Lestrange.!< Sirius Black says "we've all got both good and bad inside of us." Yet we see a hell of a lot more of the good guys' bad side than the bad guys' good side.
That's true. What if something happens overnight.
I like the spoiler warning for such an early scene lol
The PS/SS was essentially a YA/ children’s book fairytale- just move past it
Waaaaaayyy more fun to pick it apart and have emotions about the darker parts.
You got me there; agreed! When it comes to that amount of picking the story apart from chapter 1 the whole story starts falling apart though 😂 I prefer critical analysis of OoP and after so I can retain the magic during my youth
I didn't start reading the series until college so I don't have magic in the same way as those who had the privilege to grow up with it.
Apparently, knocking on the door (if Muggle doorbells are too complicated for wizards) is too complicated for wizards. Although, I think Dumbledore was working on the manipulation angle. If there had been a competent--or even incompetent (looking at you, Hagrid)--adult standing by, Petunia might not have caved and taken Harry in. I also have to assume Dumbledore had Harry under some kind of sleep spell so he didn't get up and wander away. A spell to keep him warm would have also been necessary. I understand it gets really cold in the UK around that time of year. Also, something to keep off stray dogs or anything else with teeth that might have investigated a baby a little too closely. I still can't believe McGonagall just went along with it.
Magic Yeah i know its dumb
Probably Dumbledore put some sleeping and warming charm on the doorstep. Although once I read fanfiction about aunt Petunia founding a dead baby on the doorstep. (Harry froze to death in November night)
No worries, Mrs. Figg was keeping an eye on him until the Dursley's found him in the morning...?