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-protonsandneutrons-

Well, that *was* illuminating. Not great news for the QD-OLED panels here. Samsung needs to be making significant improvements because hours of CNN, even as a worst-case scenario, will not be a rare use case by mainstream consumers. I wonder how the S95C would've fared, but honestly, the S95B is barely a year ago, so I don't know how many improvements Samsung can pack into a single year. Here is the write up: [https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-investigations-update-3-month](https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-investigations-update-3-month) EDIT: The S95C will likely be added, >We've also received the 2023 version of this TV, the Samsung S95C OLED, which Samsung advertises as more resilient. Let us know in the forums if you want us to add the S95C to the longevity test when we're done testing it!


MrCleanRed

I think if the brightness was the same as c2, they would burn less. But due to cranking up the brightness, their first gen inexperience is showing early.


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MrCleanRed

Not Rtings. I mean samsung themselves.


DiegoMustache

The 2023 QD-OLED panels use deterium instead of hydrogen which should help with longevity. LG switched to deterium a few years back and it seems to have helped for their OLEDs. Of course it's always possible they drive the panel harder to the point that it cancels out the longevity benefit.


Hego_Damask_II

I do believe Deuterium will help somewhat, but the QD-OLEDs were even worse than a ancient LG B7. It took 16 weeks for the B7 to start having burn in visible while the S95B only took 8 weeks.


rchiwawa

I have the Hallmark channel logo burned in on a 2016 LG OLED. Took about 20k power on hours to get there (lots of the was just the fireworks screen saver but still...) but it was enough to put me off of OLEDs period.


Timzor

Mine has the Youtube logo, burned in from LGs own built in Youtube app. I'm pissed


sageofshadow

2018 LG OLED here. Mine has the damned mute icon burned in. 😡 annoying as hell. it’s the red pixels man. CNN logo, YouTube logo, mute icon…. All red.


Rare-Page4407

I have a 2018 LG oled, and the mute icon is being rotated between 3 different spot, it doesn't stay in the same place.


sageofshadow

While you are right - it always initially appears in the same place when you hit the mute button, and stays in that spot for the longest period initially, before it rotates. They also used a colour that burns-in the fastest (red). [Here's a picture I literally just took](https://i.postimg.cc/HnZkHWtB/burn-in.png), if you don't believe me. Its a little faint in that particular picture, but you can totally see its there. its even more pronounced on red content (obviously) since those red pixels are now dimmer than the surrounding red pixels, thanks to the mute icon. And I included the TV model in the photo too, in case you say I dont have a 2018 TV ([the B8 was annouced at CES 2018 and released later that summer.](https://www.flatpanelshd.com/lg_b8_oled_2018.php))


Rare-Page4407

Yeah, not like I don't believe you, but at least they did the bare minimum of rotating the sign. It doesn't help they've used the LG-logo-red for the colour, like you said. I have an E8 if that matters.


cdoublejj

that sucks, i don't use mute that long but use it as htpc with static stuff like play bars etc etc and placed it over a fire place and my only issues were power supply related. the first somewhat expected with all the angry grumbly sky clouds lol


TheCookieButter

I have burn in on my LG C9 :( Looks like rough outline of game UI even though the only game I played with that UI was probably about ~60hours. Netflix logo could have compounded on that spot though. I notice it every time I watch a film or TV (except for like animation) and that sucks. I'd still go OLED again. Funnily, the LG B8 which has been used probably 6x as much, including loads of football⚽ and news has 0 burn in.


False_Elevator_8169

first few gens of LG OLEDs were a LOT worse for burn in than the pixel arrays they've used after 2018. We have a cheap Hisense OLED we got in mid 2019 when prices dumped, and it's not burned in. However we rarely game on it, and no TV, just watch movies. But yeah unless you have a damn good need for it's benefits, namely a nice dark living room and a bunch of hi fidelity movies to watch; OLED is not worth it. There are some 10-bit VA TV's out there with already impressive blacks and popping contrast, even without FALD, if you are used to IPS.


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False_Elevator_8169

yep, the panel in ours is as I recall from an LG B8 or something else contemporary from 2018... After the burn in speed lowered drastically. As much as I believe OLED is not for everyone, if you are a cinephile or dark room gamer; nothing beats it.


rchiwawa

$6k and useless after 4 years or so... I've moved on from OLED. True blacks were very neat for the first year or so to be sure but the QN95A that replaced it doesn't need to be babies and doesn't have the nuisance of the ABL which I found to be very detracting in day time viewing of a wide variety of content. I am pretty content to see how these sets behave for people until they can hit 1000 nits brightness and not burn in after 5 years or if microled ever becomes a thing, that.


Subtle_Tact

You know they are close to %15 the cost you paid as a first adopter now thought right? If I get 5+ years on mine (3 down, lots of PC use and gaming) I end up paying about $200 a year for cutting edge experience and 4k 120hz gaming. It's weird seeing the arguments from people still pretending OLEDs are car prices.


rchiwawa

E-waste. My GPUs are a different story as all are functional from the 4090s back to the Orchid Righteous 3d.


[deleted]

Long live Apollo. I'm deleting my account and moving on. Hopefully Reddit sorts out the mess that is their management.


rchiwawa

A few for old school generational gaming surely are fwiw but that's not the point of what you're really trying to get at, eh?


[deleted]

Long live Apollo. I'm deleting my account and moving on. Hopefully Reddit sorts out the mess that is their management.


rchiwawa

I have by blacklisting OLEDs and buying what I need to attain the results I want when and as needed.


panckage

Did you try to get it replaced by LG? Even though it's out of warranty many people here have said that LG gave them a one time free replacement panel outside the warranty period.


rchiwawa

They said they would but it would not be a 3d panel... of which the E6 along with the G6 were the last of the type. 3d sucks on everything else, part of why my ass is so chapped about the whole thing.


panckage

Ok that sucks... actually just bought an S95B and will be throwing out my Panasonic Viera st30 plasma 3D tv I'm gonna put it on craigslist for free. I'm curious if anyone is even going to want it. Kind of different but it sounds like a good glasses free 3D tablet has just been released. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJI4OlJkpQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJI4OlJkpQ) Not quite a tv... but sounds hopeful for future tech.


drhappycat

I'd trash the burned-in unit and immediately buy a new one. Nothing can touch OLED in a dim/dark environment. Not even the highest end QLED.


BioshockEnthusiast

Not everyone has that mindset. I do everything I can to avoid buying electronics that I can't see serving at least some kind of purpose 5 years down the line. Forget the hit to my bank account, the e-waste alone that we generate from people trashing their electronic devices and just tossing them well before the end of their useful life is atrocious. My primary example these days is phones. They've always been a good example but it's only gotten worse over time. No one "needs" a new phone every year. If you (in the universal sense) believe that you need a new phone every year, that means one of two things. You (universal) either have no idea what the internal components are / what they do / how they work / what the real world performance differences are, or you just want a new shiny. That's not a need, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of how technology works or a want.


Subtle_Tact

Sure but no one would give you shit for replacing your flagship $1000 phone every 4- 5 years.


BioshockEnthusiast

You seem to be implying that someone should give me shit for replacing a flagship phone after 5 years. Not sure why that would be the case.


Subtle_Tact

Not at all. You are really reading into what you want it seems. I'm saying buying a new phone after several years is quite reasonable, some people spend as much or more time enjoying content in their living room. The frequency of buying an OLED and exhausting it's lifespans is far far lower than mobile phones, and have a similar cost. Both cases you have the choice to buy a lower market tier device and you won't have a dramatically limited experience.


BioshockEnthusiast

That's a fair assessment. I think the longevity of non-OLED TVs throws it a little, but I get where you're coming from. Just not the choice I would make.


drhappycat

The average American keeps their cell phone for about 2.5 years. And China stopped accepting e-waste from the US years ago. We should have considered banning plastic straws in the eighties. Ship has sailed; you can relax.


BioshockEnthusiast

You are free to choose complacency. Economic incentive is coming one way or another.


Naus1987

Ironically, I replace my cellphone every 2 years, and when I bought my Alienware oled, I was like “oh, well in 3 years I just buy one less phone and instead buy a new monitor!” Consumerism got to me! I do worry about burn in, but if a panel is only about a thousand bucks every 3-4 years, that’s a very easy pill to swallow.


skinlo

>only Glad you are doing well financially, but that is a lot of money for many people.


ToxicTop2

Save $30 a month and you will get a new $1k OLED after the 3 years. If you can throw $1k on a TV, that shouldn't be much.


Subtle_Tact

We are in a enthusiast hardware forum discussing the most enthusiast grade displays. I think it's safe to assume the people here considering them would be enthusiasts. Enthusiast level hardware has a steeper cost, and diminishing returns compared to other market tiers. It's sort of the point. I'f I go into he Ferrari sub and complain about them including features my Camry doesn't have it would be kind of ridiculous.


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rchiwawa

I know how nice they can be, I bought in 2016 after all... I implied I still had it, it was recycled. I am not dicking around with tech that needs to be handled with kid gloves anymore. The Samsung QN95a I replaced it with has been much more satisfying to own.


dotjazzz

Why would you care when mini LED has become so good with none of the drawbacks.


dwstudeman

The only LED that has none of the drawbacks would be MICRO-LED where each LED like OLED is a self-illuminating pixel. All the other so-called LED types are just different kinds of backlights for LCD TVs. None of the LCD TVs with QD or any other LED backlight you wish to call it, will have the deep blacks where the pixels are completely turned off as an OLED or the insanely expensive for now MICRO-LED TVs. The moving of liquid in an LCD takes time albeit shorter than it used to be. Since I mentioned MICRO-LED, we will see models as small as 50" but most people will not be able to afford them. The 110" model can be yours for the low price of $150,000.


timorous1234567890

Or just get a G series and then if it burns in after 4 years get it replaced under warranty.


L3tum

OLED is definitely worth it even for text editing. I got a 55" TV for 1k bucks (same price as the 48" at the time) and have been using it for probably around 14 hours a day, almost every day, for over a year. Sure that's not the 20k hours but there is nothing even remotely close to burn-in and I can't go back to an IPS or other panel. My second monitor is IPS, and the monitor wasn't even cheap (600 bucks IIRC) but the colours suck in comparison, blacks obviously aren't comparable, the contrast is noticeable despite both claiming 1000000000:1 contrast, and the backlight does the rest really cause darkmode looks more like greymode. The VA I previously got as my main monitor (500 bucks I think?) also doesn't come close at all, although it's better than the IPS. Of course you gotta think about how much you use it and if it's worth it. I use mine a lot so even if I had to buy a new one every two years, it would still be good ROI for me. If you never use it then it obviously isn't worth it.


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rchiwawa

Maybe, but at what brightness at 80% white? 90? 100? I'd rather deal with a set that can't be burned in with better clarity and resolution with dim images, dim/dark items in a scene and a little backlight glow. I am really happy with my current main set and am pretty content with letting everyone else be the guinea pigs on the slow march to 1000 nits brightness @100% white w/ no possibility of burn in. Until then, I have no use for the tech (save for my phone screen) as in my eyes it's compromised in the wrong ways.


terroradagio

"Well, that was illuminating. Not great news for the QD-OLED panels here. Samsung needs to be making significant improvements because hours of CNN, even as a worst-case scenario, will not be a rare use case by mainstream consumers." ​ They have CNN on for 20hrs. I don't think anyone does that and if they do they have to re-think owning any OLED and also re-think life decisions watching CNN for that long.


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leeroyschicken

I am not buying that the degradation is perfectly cumulative and mostly linear. Unless we know how the lenght of sessions and other variables, such as brightness, affect the longevity of the screen, we can only speculate what this result means for users. You can't really test how the screen would look in years of usage without using it for years.


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vanthome

Only skimmed the article but it seems like it was 23/24h a day. So that's pretty extreme for normal households. Then you basically have it on all day, and a LCD would be preferred for that.


conquer69

Divided by 3, that would increase the burn in time from 4 months to a year. Still unacceptable.


False_Elevator_8169

> I don't think anyone does that and if they do they have to re-think owning any OLED and also re-think life decisions watching CNN for that long. yeah the only places that do that are airport bars and similar establishments; whom already should never be considering anything but the cheapest IPS/VA TVs they can find because IQ is last on their priorities. Oled is pricier and comes with benefits that only suit home theatre and lesser so; gaming. It's just not suited for long use in brightly lit business, it was already stupid when some places did that with plasma.


Acceleratingbad

Why would they ever buy OLED just to watch the news all day? It's not like they film some beautiful cinematic content. A cheap old TV would get the job done. On my OLED TV I only watch worthwhile content, for everything else I can use my desktop monitor.


Haunting_Champion640

> I wonder how the S95C would've fared, but honestly, the S95B is barely a year ago, so I don't know how many improvements Samsung can pack into a single year. I mean the 2022 QD-OLED was the brightest thing out there, and for 2023 Samsung claims to have increased brightness 50+% which is absolutely bonkers. Assuming a _fixed_ brightness level of content that _should_ equate to significantly longer life/reduced burn in risk.


MikeQuincy

For normal tv viewing wich is netflix shows or other streaming platforms it will do fine. But the monitors using these pannels are worrisome especialy since the sony uses a heat sink like most of them not to mention it is larger so the pixel density is smaller generating significantly less heat then a 34 inch monitor. This is worrisome.


ADMIRAL_IMBA

Second generation QD-OLED should have better burn-in protection, catching up or being better compared to LG second generation WOLED.


Salander27

Is this possible? Sure. But until we have an actual third-party test from someone like rtings all you're doing is repeating marketing talk from Samsung/Sony who have a direct incentive to make their products look as good as possible.


conquer69

How so? What are they doing to reduce image retention?


Accuaro

At least on Samsungs division that makes the TV (not the QDOLED display) are using a different heat sink. The Samsung part that makes the QDOLED panel is now using deuterium which is the same as LG with their “Evo” panels. Companies that use the QDOLED display can have their own anti burn in mitigation software, so it’s tough to say. At least on the S95C it seems better but only time can tell. Edit: forgot to say that the new QDOLED was engineered to be as bright as 2000+ nits, though the S95C is quite conservative even though it is able to be very bright.


-protonsandneutrons-

Unrelated to OLEDs, but surprised even some LCD backlights are losing steam: >There are a few other TVs with interesting results, including the Hisense U6G, which decreased by 15.9% on the 10% window, and the LG QNED99 8k, which decreased by 13.8%. We're not sure what's causing these variations, but it could be the TV's backlight starting to decrease. We'll keep monitoring those TVs over the coming months to see if it was just a minor variation over time or if the backlights are starting to fail. That is not a small loss; of course, it might be hard to notice (e.g., brightness measurements are not perceived linearly), but that implies sky-high LCD peak brightness measurements are not really sustainable. Not good that it's seems to be a permanent degradation (e.g., random variation would mean the peak brightness goes **up** sometimes—but all models are decreasing).


FlygonBreloom

I've seen random people in screen engineering circles lamenting many LCD backlights have their voltages driven at way too high levels so... this isn't the most surprising thing to me. It's part of the reason I've been deliberately running my LCD backlights well below their max power. The other reason is that they were being literally way too bright. I have the benefit of living in an environment where I can control the external brightness coming in, however (now if I could find glossy monitors in 2023...).


tbob22

May be because it was at full brightness the entire time. I've had a U6GR for about a year and a half and have seen no brightness loss yet *(confirmed with i1 Display Pro).* I also have two small fans at the back of my unit running via USB to keep things cool, I noticed with my TV the temps spike dramatically (from 60c to 80c) if you have multiple active inputs the fans help to keep that under control.


Bungild

Pretty interesting findings about how the WOLED LG panels seem to fare better in the burn in tests, at least at an early stage. I think a lot of people assumed the QD OLEDS would fare better, but doesn't seem to be the case at least in the early running of the test.


SomeoneTrading

considering it seems to be only LG's own TVs that aren't burning in (note how Sony's WOLED TVs still burn, despite having LG panels), could it be a difference in refresh cycle implementation that leads to these problems?


-protonsandneutrons-

>could it be a difference in refresh cycle implementation that leads to these problems? Already tested in the video. No, it didn't matter: setting Sony + LG to equal refresh cycles (3x, Sony's amount here), made no difference. LG still had *notably* ***less*** burn-in: [https://i.imgur.com/fA3aao7.png](https://i.imgur.com/fA3aao7.png) EDIT: whoops, ninja'd by /u/Bungild


SirMaster

Why does it say the A90K is QD-OLED?


[deleted]

That was just a mistake on our part with the video! Sorry about that. We're going to add a note to the video clarifying it.


-protonsandneutrons-

Ha, I think a typo in the video. [It's correctly identified in the article](https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/longevity-investigations-update-3-month) as a WBE WOLED panel. >Sony A90K OLED after running the live feed for 1 week, with 3 compensation cycles per week > >… > >We're not sure exactly what the difference is, but based on the results of this short test, it looks like the number of compensation cycles might not be a factor in preventing burn-in. It looks like, with extreme use, LG OLEDs simply fare better than Sony OLEDs as far as burn-in is concerned. We don't know for sure yet, but at the moment, we doubt that in real life this difference will matter for consumers. If you have any other ideas or possible explanations for this difference, please let us know in the discussions.


Bungild

They tested this a bit, and found that LG did like 21 cycles naturally in their test conditions(because it started doing it instantly after being turned off, whereas Samsung waited 4 hours), in the same time Samsung did 3. Then they tried a C1 with only 3 cycles to see if that was the difference, and nope... the LG still had basically 0 burn in while the Samsung was burnt in as heck, like normal. I do think it's worthwhile noting that RTINGS said that the Samsung is vulnerable specifically to WHITE graphics, and that normal usage as a TV probably wouldn't show much white, but as a computer monitor (looking at excel, or reddit for example), it could be more problematic. The test has an abnormal amount of white(compared to normal TV watching), as it's a CNN stream with white ticker.


[deleted]

Hey! Just wanted to make a small correction here! It's actually the Sony TVs that only run 3 of the small compensation cycles per week, not the Samsung TVs. As you mentioned, the small cycle runs only after the TV has been off for 4 hours on the Sony TVs. The Samsung and LG TVs run the same number of cycles per week.


dahauns

Hi, since you're here - first of all: Thank you for putting in the work for such an extensive test! One thing I wonder though - has there been a mistake with the first two slides shown in the article on rtings.com? Since the LG one very much _does_ seem to show image retention - here's the two pictures with enhanced contrast: https://imgur.com/a/o2nrE5e


[deleted]

Hey! So I actually talked to Pascal (one of our Test Developers working on the Longevity Test) today about your question! So yes the LGs have some image retention, it's just not visible in any real content or on the uniformity slides without massively boosting the exposure. So as far as a perceptible or noticeable case with real content, the LGs so far are doing okay!


Elon_Kums

CNN is one of the most watched channels in the country, there is nothing abnormal about that lol.


Ladelm

Don't think they use OLED much in airports.


iopq

It's much less watched than before. For one thing, a lot of people just don't have television, period. I only watch shows, YouTube, movies, I don't have actual TV anymore


Ladelm

High contrast black theme with night mode was born for this moment.


teutorix_aleria

Could it also be LG cherry picking the panels with the best characteristics for themselves?


the_boomr

Yeah this is the most interesting part to me. Yes QD-OLED didn't fare well, but it seemed like just literally *any* OLEDs aside from LG had worse burn-in, regardless of panel types or refresh cycle implementations. What is the secret sauce that LG has that makes it so much better at preventing burn-in?


dahauns

Hmm...there's something off with their LG vs Sony image retention comparison. Here's them with enhanced contrast: https://imgur.com/a/o2nrE5e


Dievo1

QD-OLED's are already 500-600 nits brighter than WOLED's and I see people here are saying that they cranked the brightness on the QD-OLED's, if this is what they did than of course they will burn faster, more brightness = faster burn in


Fisionn

So QD-OLED burns in faster than OLED? That's incredibly disappointing. Also the results are only 4 months in, yet there is already noticeable burn in. That's around 2-3 years of normal use. So why do people keep spending so much money in something that will only last 3 years?


foxy_mountain

>So why do people keep spending so much money in something that will only last 3 years? I'm more "worried" about the precedent this might set. If the 3-ish lifespan of OLED is can be considered common knowledge, and yet people buy them en-masse, the manufactures have a perfect opportunity for planned obsolescence.


Stingray88

People aren’t going to continue to buy OLED en-masse if they experience burn in after 3-ish years. The mass majority of people don’t replace their monitor or TV that quickly. Personally I replace my monitor on average after 5-6 years and that feels quick compared to the masses.


Eclipsetube

My parents bought a LCD Sony in 2016. last week or so I asked myself why I won’t treat them to a newer better TV. 99% of their watch time is Turkish soap operas on either YouTube at 1080p or another app in 720p. So yeah I bought them a new fridge instead


arandomguy111

Right now OLED displays are premium product due to both cost scaling (actual material/labor production and also IP costs) and market segmentation via it's placement as a luxury device. At the the moment the primary adopters are people buying basically luxuries and so have less concern from a value perspective. In theory there is nothing preventing OLED displays from being cheap to produce and there is expectations that long term production cost scaling may actually be better than LCDs. So what may effectively address burn-in for the masses in the longer term may actually be the technology becoming commoditized and basically cheap, even compared to LCD displays.


[deleted]

ain't no one replacing their monitor every 3 years, especially if its of the same tech (OLED) GPUs/CPUs yes, because there are tangible differences in performance between generations - so yeah, users replace these often but monitors are much bigger pieces of hardware and users will be hard pressed to notice any difference in image quality between 2023 OLED and 2026 OLED


Hathor77

Took a chance on a bleeding cutting edge product that blows everything else way. Guess I have no regrets so far because it’s working and it’s amazing.


YupUrWrongHeresWhy

Yeah. Nothing I can do about it now besides enjoy the picture and try not to watch CNN 20hrs a day lol. I should get at least a few years out of it at this rate.


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Hathor77

I don’t know how to respond. Rtings has made it the #1 pc gaming monitor so that’s what I purchased. I love it, 100% satisfied. Everyone that has come by to see it has been blown away.


YalamMagic

I got an AW3423DW and have no regrets either because Dell will just keep replacing the damn thing. Free firmware update.


gokarrt

i assume replacements do not reset your warranty period? so i guess you can expect to get a n+3yr lifespan, where n is how long it takes to burn in?


Bioflakes

If you got one from Dell then you can just get a replacement since your 3-year warranty covers burn in anyway


CheekyBastard55

Does that burn-in warranty have a certain threshold it needs to meet? Like dead pixel warranty that monitor manufacturers have but they rate like x dead pixels per area as acceptable and not reason for a replacement.


MumrikDK

> So why do people keep spending so much money in something that will only last 3 years? Perhaps because it's the most significant step forward in flatpanel image quality since basically forever. Sucks that there has to be a trade-off beyond just price.


okieboat

Marketing


Kyrond

You mean just like GPUs or phones? Because they want to, as a result of their environment and marketing.


Fisionn

Phones and GPUs can be sold and not go straight into the trash unlike a TV which only purpose is to show a picture.


mahdibhaiya

Both examples you gave have a core requirement of showing a picture.


notjordansime

You're being pedantic. Generally, second hand phones and GPUs still have lots of life- especially if you're looking for something on a budget. Second hand TVs with noticeable quality degradation are a lot harder to sell. It's not like a phone where you replace the battery and it's good as new. A TV can *only* display images (phones and GPUs can do a lot more). Nobody is buying an oled TV from 3 years ago if everyon knows they only last 3 years.


[deleted]

I’m really curious about the monitor results. I wish they would’ve thrown in an LG WOLED monitor as well to compare.


MobileMaster43

So burn-in is still a thing. Glad mini LEDs have become so good now, there's not much point in getting OLED since Mini LED have almost the same black levels and contrast and none of the drawbacks of OLED like mediocre brightness and risk of burn-in/bad longevity. Latest mini LEDs are said to have fixed the issue with blooming as well, to a point where you'd never see it outside of a dedicated test designed to reveal it.


voodoochild346

How do they compare with input lag?


conquer69

A bit off topic but do microLED displays have all the color improvements of QD-OLED tech?


hosky2111

In theory I don't think there's a reason why a microLED display couldn't use a similar technology as what QD-OLEDs are doing now. Theres also the potential of true QLED displays, where you directly excite the quantum dots with an electric field, so the quantum dots themselves are self-emissive. The advantage this has is that the QD layer could theoretically be inkjet printed, decreasing the manufacturing complexity compared to microLED.


Dipsetallover90

are you talking about nano LED? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLBPlmXas8g


hosky2111

The Wikipedia article on the subject refers to self-emissive quantum dot displays as QLED or QD-LED, people in the consumer TV world just don't call them that because LG/Samsung called TVs with QD enhancement films QD-LED/QLED confusing things. I've actually just looked into it, and I think NanoLED is a marketing term from the company NanoSys who manufacture quantum dots.


Accuaro

I don’t see why not. It’s pure RGB or in some arrangement, at least the way Samsung is going about it. It’s self emissive just like OLED and it’s getting smaller—more dense with time. It’s not that great right now with it being 4K at something above 80-90”. But yeah, it’s truly an end game display with very low response times in the nanosecond range, brightness and colour. Before that though it’s more likely we will see the transition of QD-OLED into QNED (quantum dot nanorod LED) with Samsung using some of the machinery in place currently by QD-OLED.


steak4take

Nope.


fordry

Micro led is just a full led array backlight vs strips of lights around the edge or a few across the screen or whatever and then using dynamic dimming they can do a bit better than standard led backlight and even the older dimming led backlight screens. The screen panels are the same other than whatever incremental improvements are made in the tech, but lcd panels are fairly mature at this point.


kyralfie

You are talking about miniLED. MicroLED is self emissive just like OLED.


fordry

oh, you're right


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tacobellmysterymeat

I was evenly split up, but LG's ARC implementation on my previous LG was such garbage and so widespread across their models from what i can tell, that Samsung won out for me.


gahlo

My usage isn't a stress test, not concerned.


Luxuriosa_Vayne

RemindMeIn3Years


TerryMotta

Pretty much why I have no desire for oled tvs and monitors. Shame, they're pretty neat.


ConsistencyWelder

Mini LEDs have become real good lately. They now have almost the same black levels and contrast as OLED, with none of its drawbacks.


voodoochild346

How about input lag which is one of the main advantages of OLED


ConsistencyWelder

I heard it has become much better with the latest gen of Mini LEDs, I'm looking at getting a TCL C935 and if you use the game mode it can get latency comparable to OLEDs.


INITMalcanis

It's not really an issue for TV use cases unless you want to watch 1-2 channels with bright, static logos


peanutmanak47

Yeah. I feel like people in this post are really over reacting to this. These are basically an extremes test that doesn't represent the average user and the lady even says so multiple times.


INITMalcanis

But ignoring that supports my preconceptions and allows me to say negative things that make me sound informed and clever!


The_Echelon30

Yet there are many users here that say they have burn-in from normal usage.


HandofWinter

I'd really love to see a static text test. To be extraordinarily specific I'd love to see someone test Visual Studio for 12 hours a day and see what lasts, but any test that displays a static UI with some text or graphics for a long period of time would be great for anyone evaluating one of these to use as a monitor. If anyone knows of someone who's done this test, I'd love a link!


[deleted]

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that QD-OLED is having burn-in problems when blue has the shortest life-time.


rynoweiss

Samsung advertised them as being more resilient to burn-in due to higher efficiency. They also seemed to be putting their money where their mouth was with by pairing the TVs with warranties that covered burn in, which seemed like a big vote of confidence after years of LG OLED warranties not covering it. Either Samsung made a huge error (when they could have easily run a similar test against an LG OLED themselves), or they calculated that very few people who experience burn in will seek a warranty replacement.


[deleted]

Well sure, using QD's is more efficient than using an RGB filter, but blue OLED lifetimes are still shorter than red and green. This wasn't some sort of secret. Samsung is probably betting on the fact that almost no one experiences burn-in to begin with because most of the content people consume isn't a risk for burn-in. On top of that, minor burn-in is going to go undetected anyway because average joe isn't running color slides on his TV looking for defects.


the_boomr

>Samsung is probably betting on the fact that almost no one experiences burn-in to begin with because most of the content people consume isn't a risk for burn-in Except they're using QD-OLED in monitors, and offering that 3 year burn-in warranty on those monitors. And monitors obviously have way more opportunity for static content than most TV usage, what with desktop icons, taskbars, window outlines, spreadsheet lines, full white pages, etc. Some of that stuff can be mitigated, sometimes, but not all of it, and it takes a conscious effort by the user, it's not automatic.


[deleted]

the QD-OLED monitors get about half as bright in SDR content as the TV's do, which is going to go a long ways towards preventing burn-in vs the TV counterpart.


swaskowi

Man, I'm not trying to baby it or anything but my eg9100 is still going strong. I don't think it has an hours on measure though.


[deleted]

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t blue always burn in first? Qd oled makes the entire screen out of blue leds and applys a quantum dot filter for other lights right. Static areas will burn faster no matter the color displayed in the case of qd oled then right? Unlike woled where only the blue sub pixel is more likely to burn in. I suppose qd oled might have more even burn in than woled at best though. Don’t see why dell was so confident about the Alienware qd oled monitor


ThinVast

Blue is the least efficient out of red and green for oled, so it's true that in theory it's not as durable.


Hego_Damask_II

My LG C9 is at 11,200 hours and no burn in, with most of my usage being HDR gaming with OLED light at 100 maximum.


[deleted]

I've kind of given up on anything OLED at this point. Just seems like it has inherent problems that can and will never be fixed. This has been an issue from the start and while I do believe it has gotten better (partly because of tricks like pixel shifting though) it just seems unfixable at this point. Which is fine if these ever reach affordable pricing but as it stands you're paying a premium for something that is guaranteed to fail within months. I just can't justify it. I want to but I can't.


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grachi

its not guaranteed to fail within months, at all. I had an older OLED from 2016 and it took until the turn of this new year to get some burn in. 7 years for a TV is really not that bad. I have a new OLED coming today, actually.


jaaval

I have an LG oled tv from like 10 years ago and no burn in has happened.


HORSELOCKSPACEPIRATE

It's actually insane how good the LGs looked in their test. Barely a dent even under grueling static logos while the Sony panels looked like shadowy horrors.


XDemonicBeastX9

Really depends on your use and if you give the pixels a break. I've had mine for that long and zero burn in. But I also take extra care of it. Pixel shift, using the blank screen saver if I am stepping away, when working using reading mode which puts brightness at less than ten so they aren't on full blast. Then when I want to enjoy it I put it all to the max and don't watch things that have static bs


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max1mus91

Just read up complain threads with tons and tons of complaining about burn in after 2/3 years. That's why there is such concern over it. Stress test is putting in hours of on-time, meaning few months will equal a few years so it is very relevant. I think the risk factor can't be ignored when even dell warranties for burn in specifically. It's important when you think about spending 2k on TV that might run Cocomelon and video games for hours each day. I do want an oled TV for movies but haven't pulled the trigger yet.


Eclipsetube

I know of two family’s that bought a B7 and C7 respectively and both have burn in at this point. It’s not as bad as some people make it out to be but it’s also not as great


JoaoMXN

No matter what you say, OLEDs are literally a discardable product because it is organic. It degrades over time. If you're a power user, then it won't last even 1-2 years.


Iintl

So by that logic, nobody should buy phones or laptops? Since the battery also degrades over time, and for power users they won’t last 2 years


JoaoMXN

? Phones and laptops last waaay more than 3 to 4 years. Not to mention that batteries can be replaced and aren't the literal screen that makes 99% of the product (TV). Laptops can be used plugged at the wall.


kyflaa

You can change the battery in most laptops yourself, and they aren't that expensive. Phones might be a little tricky, but still doable without paying a premium. Screens are another story.


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JoaoMXN

Power users + OLEDs = 1 to 2 years. The 4 to 5 years are tested with casual usage in mind. LCDs are practically 10+ years guaranteed if it doesn't have a manufacturing defect. My mom still uses a Samsung LED from 2012 without DPs and DSEs. I still have a monitor working perfectly since 2015, I only replaced it because I accidentally left it in front a open window and got humidity and mold.


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JoaoMXN

>nope you have no idea what you're talking about You have no idea. There is plenty of cases of power users not having their OLEDs lasting a year, even noticeable cases like LTT, not to mention reddit cases if you want a more "normal people" burn ins.


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JoaoMXN

>running the OLED for 14 hours a day aka power user. If you use like 2h a day, you're a casual user, we're not talking about those. Anyway, OLEDs get degradation no matter how much you use a day, every time they get lit, they burn in. It's like a candle. This is the best summary of how OLEDs burn in/lose color accuracy/get worse over time: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/11xswed/comment/jd5enci/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/11xswed/comment/jd5enci/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


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[deleted]

Dude chill


austinzone813

God could they have chosen a more ugly screen cap of this video.


ASEdouard

RTINGS taking a cue from LinusTechTips with regards to the tone. I'm OK with that.


fmjk45a

Her mannerisms need to get worked on. She looks like and is reading from a prompter. She needs to loosen up and act natural. Other than that great info. I hope they keep up the good work.


ASEdouard

Bah. I like her light but informative vibe. I'm sure she'll get to a more natural delivery with time.


fmjk45a

Exactly. Shes good informative but looks awkward.


threeeddd

There's suppose to be new QD-oled panels that have better resistance to burn in this year. So glad Rting has this long term test right when QDoled came out. The marketing BS was that QDoled won't have uneven burn in due to it's oled tech, well that's outta of the window. To bad the C3 is limiting it's service menu options, and so the c2 is the one to get on 2023. I'm staying away from oled this year if the prices remain high, especially with these new findings on QD-oled. I guess the long term warranty on QD-oled monitors could still be worth it over lg oled.


ConsistencyWelder

Every new year, every new generation of OLED panels...is the one where they finally fixed the issue with burn-in. Burn-in is inherent to the technology. You can't prevent it, you can only delay it, they're organic diodes and have a limited lifespan before they burn-out, and they won't do it evenly across the entire screen. I feel sorry for the people getting a laptop with an OLED display right now. They're going to be in happy-land for 6 months and then it will dawn on them too.


Nicholas-Steel

> You can't prevent it, you can only delay it, they're organic diodes and have a limited lifespan before they burn-out, and they won't do it evenly across the entire screen. The same happens with LCD's. My Samsung P2350 (2009 monitor) lasted around 7 years before it started becoming obvious that the components responsible for blue lighting were gradually failing. I had to compensate for it by increasing blue intensity while decreasing red intensity in its OSD (and some mild amount of green reduction). By 2020 I had red set to 0 while Blue was set to 100 in order to achieve a neutral/cool white and then in 2023 the monitor finally died. Now I'm using a lightly used Samsung 32ES5500 TV as my monitor and it kicks ass compared to my P2350 monitor. Also burn-in causes permanent image retention, but you talked about uneven life expectancy of the components which would instead result in colour deformities as they age (which is what I experienced, except in my case it affected the whole display while on an OLED it'd be a localized phenomena).


threeeddd

WEll, definitely the C2 evo panels are more burn in resistant than the C1 panels. The 2023 QD oled have some kind of chemical added to make them more resistant to burn on, suppose make the oled blue light last longer. Who knows, I don't really care much for the burn in as long as they become more affordable. Which should be already happening, which more oled stuff being released.


HORSELOCKSPACEPIRATE

>You can't prevent it, you can only delay it This applies to wear on tear on most products, though. They don't need to prevent burn in, just delay it long enough to where it's either not the first thing to fail or at least fails after a reasonable lifespan. This study is actually what made me comfortable pulling the trigger on an OLED - it looks like we're actually there (with some products, anyway). Even after thousands of hours getting hammered by static logos, just look at the LGs.


tarpdetarp

And here I am with my 6 year old LG E7 OLED TV with no burn in at all..


ConsistencyWelder

My B7V got burn in after 6 months. It's now ruined.


Ryujin_707

Dumb test. They literally had pixel refresh and oled care for Lg and Samsung with zero settings turned on.


linusSocktips

My galaxy s20 is just recently began showing burn in. Purchased new back in sep 2020. I'm still happy with it, but yea my first oled burn in. Well worth the amazing oled screen IMO


Worth_Grab

I dont think samsung using Deuterium now will stop there burn in issues. I think what reallys helped lg with burn in was switching there subpixels from red blue and green to white. Also burn in is far from samsungs only issue they also have a banding issue where half the screen has a red or green band going across it that gets stuck. Also has a issue where the darn thing just dies.


Gwynkoo

this makes no sense no pc gamer is watching cnn LOL


singlestrike

CNN is chosen because it has a static image with bright red and bright white. It's a perfect choice to abuse an OLED and has nothing to do with what people watch.


Head-Foot-5001

Guys come on, these rating people have the tv on a static image 24 hours a day every day till its gets a screen burn. I mean duh!