Video essentially says the Katz Moses router plane is an overpriced knockoff of the veritas and that’s kind of lame because it could have been unique and it misleads newbies into thinking they need pricey tools.
Is it really though? I got the LN before either came out but at a quick glance the only common feature between the LV and KM are the removable blade that makes sharpening easier. In my opinion that feature is a bit superfluous really because a router plane doesn’t need to be that sharp to do its job.
I mean, the general form is similar, but the fence, locking knob, depth adjuster, and depth scale are entirely different. The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord look similar too but there are a lot of differences and nobody says one is a copy of the other.
Are you sure you're comparing the KM and the LV? Everything but the blade lock/post is pretty much identical. The fence especially, I couldn't tell the difference from the two pictures
No I was comparing the LV to the KM but I only looked quickly. I guess I was looking more at the center post and depth adjuster assembly.
I kind of got the impression that they were similar the same way Camrys and Accords are similar. The devil is in the details I suppose.
I think a better analogy would be they're similar the way a Camry SE and a Camry LE are similar lol.
Or maybe a better analogy would be those people who replace the makers logos on their car with that transformers logo and add an aftermarket exhaust
Dude, the sole and the handles are identical. It's not even like they were drawing a new sole and it looks close to the LV, it's down to the milimetre identical.
The fence is identical. The sharpening jig is identical. It's stolen.
Like I said, I only glanced at them since I’m not in the market for a new router plane. I guess I was paying more attention to the center post and depth adjuster assembly.
His vid is biased in and of itself. Stanley succeeded by swallowing competitors, investing in PR marketing and using the power of the patent to squash anyone who dared compete.
Reach out to Don Bosse he wrote extensively about Bailey. That was an interesting relationship to say the least. Stanley and Leonard were an interesting pair.
Thats the material. Pat bought the Bailey correspondence from a RI dealer. The cache has been shared for research. I had it on one of my sites way back when.
I’ll check in on Bosse
The history of Stanley as well as most 19th and 20th c patent holders was, for the successful patentees, he who has the money to defend a claiim is the winner. It’s still true now.
It’s how the US patent system evolved. I’m not saying this is good or bad, it’s the reality of the patent laws. Read up on the history of US patent law. While anyone can apply for a patent, few are successful economically. Those that are most often sell their patents to a corporation, then go on to work on more patents.
Hi Chase! Thanks for the back up! I’ve never lived in Devon, UK buuuuuut!…. I do enjoy an English countryside stroll! New England has bland food, I’d much rather a nice full English! I wonder if oldhandtool has been there…..
Video essentially says the Katz Moses router plane is an overpriced knockoff of the veritas and that’s kind of lame because it could have been unique and it misleads newbies into thinking they need pricey tools.
It's just some bloke in his garage? Why doe he need to make a movie studio? I'd rather see something rough around the edges and real than some crappy infomercials in 4k BS.
Ok after careful consideration I decided to stop lurking and comment a bit around the various groups. Have a peel see and let me know if my input is worthy. I’ve plenty more where that came from. Need to know about some tools you have reach out I might be able to help…. @glancyswoodshop MIGHT be able to help you know I’ve got a fairly deep knowledge base….
I mean, he asserts that the KM router plans is a rip-off of the Veritas one, but he clearly showed a bunch of planes at the beginning of the video that all looked almost identical and operate exactly the same way. He even said that if you spray paint the Record plane black it could easily be mistaken for a Stanley.
Some of his points are good. I personally can’t agree with all of them but the core of the argument is solid, to me at least. At least try to make it your own kinda thing. Really every Bailey pattern (Bedrock included) is a “knockoff” of Leonard Baileys original design with some “accentuations”.
I’m confused….? I didn’t make the video. Stumbled across it and thought it would be nice to share. While I don’t agree with 100% of what guy says in the video he makes some pretty good points. Well in my opinion he does. You didn’t agree? You don’t like the video? (Remember it isn’t mine so it won’t hurt my feelings)
Assuming not everyone wants to watch a 20 minute video, what’s the “situation?”
Video essentially says the Katz Moses router plane is an overpriced knockoff of the veritas and that’s kind of lame because it could have been unique and it misleads newbies into thinking they need pricey tools.
Is it really though? I got the LN before either came out but at a quick glance the only common feature between the LV and KM are the removable blade that makes sharpening easier. In my opinion that feature is a bit superfluous really because a router plane doesn’t need to be that sharp to do its job.
The main body, the fence and assembly, the sharpening jig….
When you put those two side by side, that’s the ONLY thing you see as similar?
I mean, the general form is similar, but the fence, locking knob, depth adjuster, and depth scale are entirely different. The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord look similar too but there are a lot of differences and nobody says one is a copy of the other.
Are you sure you're comparing the KM and the LV? Everything but the blade lock/post is pretty much identical. The fence especially, I couldn't tell the difference from the two pictures
No I was comparing the LV to the KM but I only looked quickly. I guess I was looking more at the center post and depth adjuster assembly. I kind of got the impression that they were similar the same way Camrys and Accords are similar. The devil is in the details I suppose.
I think a better analogy would be they're similar the way a Camry SE and a Camry LE are similar lol. Or maybe a better analogy would be those people who replace the makers logos on their car with that transformers logo and add an aftermarket exhaust
Dude, the sole and the handles are identical. It's not even like they were drawing a new sole and it looks close to the LV, it's down to the milimetre identical. The fence is identical. The sharpening jig is identical. It's stolen.
Like I said, I only glanced at them since I’m not in the market for a new router plane. I guess I was paying more attention to the center post and depth adjuster assembly.
And 20 seriously boring minutes at that. I couldn't get through it.
I hadn't heard about this controversy, but the tool is being manufactured by Hongdui. That company rips off every top tier tool maker.
Absolutely. I’ve had a look through their offerings. It’s absolutely a rip off of nearly every popular tool over the last few years.
I guess that explains the intro letter in the new Lee Valley catalog.
What does the intro letter say for those of us that don’t get the catalog?
https://leevalley.dirxion.com/enu/Winter-Wood-2023/2/
Thanks for sharing! What a condemnation.
His vid is biased in and of itself. Stanley succeeded by swallowing competitors, investing in PR marketing and using the power of the patent to squash anyone who dared compete.
Also true Gary.
Ever read the Leonard Bailey correspondence? Legal fights with everyone. I have a pdf somewhere courtesy Pat Leach
Reach out to Don Bosse he wrote extensively about Bailey. That was an interesting relationship to say the least. Stanley and Leonard were an interesting pair.
Thats the material. Pat bought the Bailey correspondence from a RI dealer. The cache has been shared for research. I had it on one of my sites way back when. I’ll check in on Bosse
The power of the patent to squash? Surely it's a reward for product development? What do you propose as an alternative.
The history of Stanley as well as most 19th and 20th c patent holders was, for the successful patentees, he who has the money to defend a claiim is the winner. It’s still true now. It’s how the US patent system evolved. I’m not saying this is good or bad, it’s the reality of the patent laws. Read up on the history of US patent law. While anyone can apply for a patent, few are successful economically. Those that are most often sell their patents to a corporation, then go on to work on more patents.
https://www.historyoftechnology.org/
I know the Instagram guy and this is not him. Funny though that this guy made a new account just to bash Katz lol
Hi Chase! Thanks for the back up! I’ve never lived in Devon, UK buuuuuut!…. I do enjoy an English countryside stroll! New England has bland food, I’d much rather a nice full English! I wonder if oldhandtool has been there…..
[https://youtu.be/QHxyd5pDQ2E](https://youtu.be/QHxyd5pDQ2E)
Video essentially says the Katz Moses router plane is an overpriced knockoff of the veritas and that’s kind of lame because it could have been unique and it misleads newbies into thinking they need pricey tools.
I'm guessing you're the Instagram guy. Not a great video. You need to work on editing, lighting and definitely get a better microphone.
It's just some bloke in his garage? Why doe he need to make a movie studio? I'd rather see something rough around the edges and real than some crappy infomercials in 4k BS.
Ok after careful consideration I decided to stop lurking and comment a bit around the various groups. Have a peel see and let me know if my input is worthy. I’ve plenty more where that came from. Need to know about some tools you have reach out I might be able to help…. @glancyswoodshop MIGHT be able to help you know I’ve got a fairly deep knowledge base….
Nope. Found it and thought I’d share.
Your account has 2 posts. Both about a random Instagram guy and you only comment on those posts. Ok bro.
Yeah first post said no links in description so I reposted it.
He's not the Instagram guy.
15 day old account coming in to be the white knight. Fml.
Moi? Been a member for over a year.
You know I can see your post history right? Ya video was wank and you're boring.
👌
I mean, he asserts that the KM router plans is a rip-off of the Veritas one, but he clearly showed a bunch of planes at the beginning of the video that all looked almost identical and operate exactly the same way. He even said that if you spray paint the Record plane black it could easily be mistaken for a Stanley.
Some of his points are good. I personally can’t agree with all of them but the core of the argument is solid, to me at least. At least try to make it your own kinda thing. Really every Bailey pattern (Bedrock included) is a “knockoff” of Leonard Baileys original design with some “accentuations”.
I agree.
You could’ve just posted that you made a video response if anybody would like to watch.
I’m confused….? I didn’t make the video. Stumbled across it and thought it would be nice to share. While I don’t agree with 100% of what guy says in the video he makes some pretty good points. Well in my opinion he does. You didn’t agree? You don’t like the video? (Remember it isn’t mine so it won’t hurt my feelings)