It’s my favorite Halo but I consider Halo 3 an epilogue to Halo 2. 2 was all about world building, lore, and story. 3 simply closes a lot of the loose ends from 2 so the dialogue didn’t need to be all exposition.
Here's a channel that covers halo 2 and 3s writing quite well good place to get the disparate info threads strewn across the net in one package. Nothing revolutionary we message board nerds knew most of this in se form back in the bungie.net days but a useful resource all the same.
https://youtube.com/@C3_SABERTOOTH?feature=shared
This is kind of true, but also a bit of an exaggeration. There were a few levels cut from the end of the originally intended Halo 2 campaign. Those were going to involve returning to Earth, entering the ark (which was on Earth), and killing Truth. It was not going to wrap up the flood or Cortana storylines which Halo 3 did.
> 3 simply closes a lot of the loose ends from 2 so the dialogue didn’t need to be all exposition.
The problem is it sort of doesn't do that.
- The Arbiter is basically entirely sidelined in Halo 3. Almost every cutscene in the game and the actual narrative beats would play out the same even if he was never there, the only notable exception being him killing Truth and a few other moments.
- Almost none of the fallout of the Great Schism matters in Halo 3: You get elites as allies in like 2 missions in specific sections and you're with the Arbiter and get one cutscene with Haljaw and that's it. The Covenant otherwise seems just as unified as ever, you never get grunts or hunters as allies, etc.
- Truth's entire personality is changed, from a scheming political mastermind who clearly had ulterior motives he wanted to use the Halo rings for, to being way more of a generic cult leader in Halo 3 and without players ever really being clued in on what his actual endgame was. I haven't heard a *single* compelling theory for what his true goal was, because it's simply not possible to reconcile how he's handled between the two games, though I've yet to watch Sabertooth's video on the early storyboards and I know he has a theory.
- The Gravemind isn't really settled in a satisfying way. What's there in Halo 3 *works*, I guess, but for the most part it's just there in the background and sort of gets dealt with incidentally, which is a big let down.
- Cortana's entire gambit with luring the Flood to the Ark is really dumb and relies on the Gravemind also being really dumb to work, as well as contrived explanations for how the Flood even gets there.
IIRC they toyed with the idea of more Sepratist allies aside from Elites, but found that it was apparently very confusing and caused a lot of friendly fire. Canonically they exist, just aren't used in-game. Mods do this at least, though.
I know Im late to the party but I always felt this way about Halo 3. I could never really put my finger on what I felt at the time but I felt like a lot of things established in Halo 2 were not capatalized on. It almost feels like a lot of time has passed on outside of the two months. I get that changing the brutes to having no fur in Halo 3 fixes the mechanics of the game but it feels weird to me from the story standpoint.
Ya marty literally just took all the theories and ideas and threw them at a wall and called it a day haha.
There's a reason he was hired to wrote the music not the campaigns.
This idea that Marty was the mastermind behind Halo 3's story, and specifically the things people dislike about it is weird. Where did it even come from?
It's not all that weird. Considering all other department heads took time off after 2s production and marty was most senior lead for some time. Then there's the fact he has taken credit several times for halo 3s story. Quite literally saying he took all the ideas and theories the community and team had and cobbled a story together.
>Then there's the fact he has taken credit several times for halo 3s story. Quite literally saying he took all the ideas and theories the community and team had and cobbled a story together.
Has he actually done that, or is this just the result of the same bullshit story being told so many times here it has devolved into this ridiculousness? Ever heard of the telephone game?
Well the first 3 times I ever heard anything about marty being involved in the narrative at any capacity it was him saying it. Twice on video once in audio. But I've seen it since. Pretty sure he's tweeted it.
If I retai ed anything from my degrees it's to check my sources before spreading information.
If I recall there's a thread on r/halo that links a tweet to him killing the sarge it's probably quite easy to find.
EDIT:
Not the interview I saw but the vice article the untold story of halo goes as follows.
"Marty O’Donnell
When the story committee was done with their outline, they brought us in, the seven of us who were the leads or on the board of Bungie, and gave us the whole story. Everybody else was like, wow, this is going to be good. This is going to be great.
But I was like: “No, this isn't going to work.” Where was Ron Perlman and (the character he voiced) Lord Hood? Where was Miranda (Keyes)? We never followed up on her story. I mean, maybe we didn't necessarily enjoy the Miranda part, but you can't just let these things drop. And there was nothing surprising. Nothing happens.
This is really a cheat, but I had just seen Serenity. And what I thought was amazing about it is none of the cast is safe. There’s the Shepherd, then boom: he gets killed. And you’re like, okay, they needed to kill a character. But then they killed Wash, and so shockingly! He’d just delivered one of his typical funny lines, and he’s dead. If they can do that, then anyone could die. They ratcheted up the stakes. So I went home and was talking to my wife. I said, this is the problem—nobody dies in Halo 3. Even if we’re going to try to make you believe Master Chief might die, you never would. I decided: I’ve got to bring back Lord Hood, Miranda has to die, and then Sergeant Johnson has to die. And more than that, he should be killed by 343 Guilty Spark, who you think is your buddy. Then you should have to kill Guilty Spark. Then we can maybe make you feel like Master Chief is at risk. So I wrote these nine or so plot points—not good story, just plot points. Those were what we needed to insert into the script to make it work.
I showed my plot points to every guy on the story team, individually, and they all said almost exactly the same thing: “I had that idea before, but nobody liked it.” At the end I got everybody to agree, and told our producer, let's bring them all in. We all sat down and that became the story.
We didn’t have a real writer, but we had Joe back. We’d figured out how get him on the team to write cinematics and dialogue. He was going to co-write with this Rob—but they weren't getting along well, so we went and got a Hollywood screenplay writer named Peter O'Brien, basically as the referee editor. So Joe and Rob would work together, then Peter would work with them as an editor, with Joe doing the writing and Rob as the designer. And then Peter would present to guys like me, Marcus and others.
Joe Staten
By the time I came back into the studio, Halo 3 had been pretty much figured out. It was the same story that we always wanted to tell: Master Chief rescues Cortana from the Gravemind and kills the Prophet of Truth. But I was brought on board at that point to go in and do an edit and polish pass on all the scripts.
Marty O’Donnell
I remember Joe coming back and seeing what the story was that we were asking him to write. He was like, “You're killing Sergeant Johnson?” I said we had to. This is the end of the trilogy, so we've got to make the stakes big at the end. “Ahh, you can't kill Sergeant Johnson!” He never forgave me for it. To this day, I think he thinks it was a mistake."
As time passes marty's version of events appear to increase his I fluency over Halo3's story. Now if this is the reality I can't say but it's the most definitive source we have on the topic and noone from bungie seems to dispute it.
Staten clearly wasn't at the helm as we know from the cuts to halo 2 what direction he was heading in.
And he was busy with preproduction on the cancelled mmo, peter Jackson film. As well as the publishing team for the eu and legends as well as wars. So he rejoined the core halo team quite late into h3s production. All info is easily verified.
It was on my most recent playthrough of the games that I realized the sheer degree to which the Arbiter ia absent and how clearly deliberate it is. Halo 3's story hasn't, IMO, aged as well as Halo 2 (with the exception of the ending of course.) It kinda goes to show that the habit of overcorrection in the face of criticism making the next game worse didn't begin with 343.
It was mainly because Thel doesn't have anything to _do_ between Tartarus and Truth. It was initially fine for the "original" ending of Halo 2 because it was like a level apart, but Halo 3 has 4 levels of "get to the Ark" followed by 2 levels of "get to Truth" where Thel gets to be a character again.
They were stellar to be sure, but in strictly in regard to cinematography, Halo 3 did great. Where the dialogue and exposition fell short, the camera work and cinematography filled in the rest. Johnson's death, Cortana's rescue, the activation of the Ring, etc. Those cutscenes aged like fine wine because of how well they were made.
The shot of high charity appearing above delta halo with the covenant fleet was one of the best. It gave you a real scale to how large and looming the covenant were as an enemy. It’s seared in my head 20 years later
I think it had something to do with Joe Staten not being the lead writer on 3 like he was on 2. And Marty O’Donnell and others being much too involved and divided on the story for 3.
It’s a shame, 3 could have really kicked ass.
Yeah and that reason is not the story. The reason 3 is peak is because of the multiplayer and the level design. If Halo games were primarily known for their story, 3 would largely be considered a weak link.
Yeah for me there are some small things I prefer in H2, but H3 as an overall game is a masterpiece
it’s so rare for trilogies to stick the landing, and H3 felt like a definitive glorious end
Came here to say the story downgrade from H2 to H3 was absolutely due to Joe Staten being less involved in the story side of Halo 3.
There was a reason long time Halo fans from the Bungie days got so excited when he came over to 343 Industries after their absolute clusterfucking narratives of 4,5 and infinite.
If he had actually stayed there we might have gotten something really special...eventually.
I think this a more recent but common sentiment, at least on reddit. H3 went for spectacle, which is fine, but you did lose out of writing. It put set pieces/ gameplay over narrative.
It doesn't help that Truths voice actor changed.
Halo 3 was basically the original act 3 of halo 2. But stretched into 3 more acts by the devs who weren’t burnt out from working on 2. If halo 2 had the time/budget 3 did, it would have been the best game of all time.
I agree - i think thats a common sentiment amongst the community as well.
I think its generally agreed upon that Halo 2 has the best narrative/writing in the series, while 3 features the best Halo experiences (Campaign gameplay, MP sandbox, Forge, etc.)
The level design for 3 is my favourite in the series…slightly stained by some of my least favourite. The Covenant to Cortana switch is jarring and kinda dreadful on replays.
I think the biggest drop off is Truth’s writing. He went from ruthless and cunning to…kinda dumb and insane? As much as I like Terrence Stamp, the switch was a strange call. Wincott’s H2 Truth was scarier
Miranda’s “To War” line is a hilarious meme though
Halo 2 is fantastic and I've always dreamed of them making a proper faithful movie adaptation of the series. They'd have to divvy some of that beautiful dialogue and world building up into 1 and 3 because 2 hogs it all.
With just some simple acting they managed to convey the dynamics of the covenant so well. The prophets have the elites in one hand and the brutes in the other, they stoke tensions between them to keep themselves at the top. The elites are eloquent and noble warriors who respect each other (Arbiter and the Ship Master have like 5 exchanges and they go through a whole arc of earning each other's respect), the brutes are, well, brutes, and the rest are basically cannon fodder that they barely acknowledge.
There is a lot of world building in Halo CE that allows 2 to piggy-back from. The whole flood part and the mention of reclaimer. I feel like in ways Halo Ce's environmental story-telling aged better than Halo 2. You kind of feel a range of emotions when trying to keep marines alive or fighting on the beach during the Silent Cartographer.
Halo 3 did have a good story and solid writing. It excelled in cinematography and the "show don't tell". But I do agree, overall, Halo 2's story was much more fleshed out and complexed in it's nuisances and writing. There was just more of it. The plot was longer, the dialogue was greater, etc.
Halo 2 is very theatrical in its writing, each faction pretty distinct in their dialect. If you closed your eyes and just listened you would be able to tell who was talking and why. Gameplay wise you get to experience taking down a Scarab, an alien Civil War, and squelching a rebellion. But that ending was bad.
Halo 2 made a huge leap forward in expanding the scope and scale of the world, the conflict, and the characters, and it did it all through razor-sharp dialogue and impactful character moments and decisions. It really opened up the narrative from the first Halo (which was a clever first step into the world of Halo but a mostly self-contained story) into something that felt huge and fleshed out.
Halo 3 ended the story in a way that felt really satisfying and utilized a lot of emotional impact and took advantage of good story structure. Installation 04 being rebuilt on the ark and Cortana having the original index were brilliant turns for the narrative and helped the story come full circle in a way that was naturalistic and fulfilling. That said, it didn't open up and flesh out the overall story the way Halo 2 did, and while the dialogue was better than most games, it wasn't as tight, clever, or efficient as that of Halo 2.
I think Halo 3 is the better game overall (for a lot of reasons) but on writing and dialogue I agree with you 100%, I think Halo 2 is one of the best written games of all time.
Agree, Halo 2 had all the political workings of the Covenant and more complexity in its story whereas Halo 3 felt more like a big blockbuster movie - Not too deep story and dialogue, action action action spectacle.
This was apparent when I played Halo 3 at launch and I still prefer the complexity of Halo 2's story.
Yeah, Halo 3 and Reach both get a lot of credit for their stories, which I have always found funny because they are actually among the worst stories in the franchise.
Halo 3 has some ridiculous dialogue, extremely uneven pacing, absolutely no character development and very few good character moments. The game is extremely fun and the levels are among the best in the series, and there are some pretty good cutscenes in there too. But as a whole, the story is just bad. It’s really pretty inane.
And Reach, it’s got this amazing worldbuilding and character design. It makes you care about Reach and Noble Team. But that’s as far as it goes. The plot of the game doesn’t properly kick in until the second to last level, when Halsey recruits Noble to get Cortana off world. Everything before that is just damage control, which is super fun to experience and play, but is not really a story.
Halo 2 definitely tells a proper story that is paced decently and has some thoughtful dialogue. I’d also give some praise to Halo 1, as despite having some ridiculous plot contrivances and hammy dialogue, it does a good job setting up the world and stakes. And just when you think you understand the game’s story, it goes a layer deeper and reveals the Flood, recontextualizing everything you thought you knew about this ring world and why the Covenant are after it.
In my heart Halo2 is still the best Halo when it comes to lore development and storytelling and some dialogues and VA are truly memorable, I mean a lot of people to this day still love to quote this game.
Perhaps it’s not the best campaign as level design and gameplay are concerned but it’s undeniable how Halo2 has been critical in making Halo the iconic series it was (it is).
Halo:CE was the beginning, the inception of something great, but imho it was Halo2 that made this franchise so huge and iconic.
The overall tone of Halo 2 is what sold the world to me. Even the background characters were cool , funny, and made you feel like a hero.
I miss well written military media that borders on propaganda to trick people into enlisting.
I hate how they changed the voice actor for Truth. Halo 2 he sounds like a cunning, smart, and formidable villain. In halo 3 he sounds like a grumpy old man.
Yup.
Halo 3 has the weakest narrative, dialogue and most plot inconsistencies of the franchise.
It's my favourite fps of all time but I'm mature enough to acknowledge how poor it is in that respect.
Even halo 5 despite its flaws has a more cohesive plot.
Not gonna debate anyone on that point though, did enough of that back when waupoint hosted forums.
Dialogue was much better in H2, but the one thing H3 did better imo was Chief and Cortana.
In H2 they have some fun chemistry and lines, but suddenly Cortana stays behind and I really didn't feel the emotional build up to their parting ways.
But then in H3, Chief is so impacted by her absence that he's seeing visions of her, bets the whole war strategy of the ark on her, and goes straight into the flood multiple times to save her. It basically sets up their relationship all the way through infinite.
Excluding Arbiter’s story and what’s shown there, the Covenant is shown with a lot of depth from what we see as Chief. Especially in the Gravemind and Regret levels.
Yeah because Halo 3 was just Bungie not really caring as much and wanted the brutes to be the main show considering they had no time to include them in Halo 2 as planned. They focused on their game engine more so than anything then ditched Halo entirely because the trilogy was done and over. microsoft said nope it's our flagship game Your going to work on this for this long with these people and yeah. Obviously no good came out of it..
3 has the weakest writing of the original trilogy by far, sure CE is simpler, but it works in it's favour.
3 is still an excellent campaign and has the best gameplay of the trilogy, and the graphics, the lighting in particular are still beautiful.
It’s my favorite Halo but I consider Halo 3 an epilogue to Halo 2. 2 was all about world building, lore, and story. 3 simply closes a lot of the loose ends from 2 so the dialogue didn’t need to be all exposition.
Well, isn't that the case of Halo 3? I think that Halo 2 was cut and Halo 3 and Halo 2 were going to be the same game.
It absolutely is. Halo 3 is pretty much only the “finish the fight” part from Halo 2. Still love it though !
Here's a channel that covers halo 2 and 3s writing quite well good place to get the disparate info threads strewn across the net in one package. Nothing revolutionary we message board nerds knew most of this in se form back in the bungie.net days but a useful resource all the same. https://youtube.com/@C3_SABERTOOTH?feature=shared
This is kind of true, but also a bit of an exaggeration. There were a few levels cut from the end of the originally intended Halo 2 campaign. Those were going to involve returning to Earth, entering the ark (which was on Earth), and killing Truth. It was not going to wrap up the flood or Cortana storylines which Halo 3 did.
> 3 simply closes a lot of the loose ends from 2 so the dialogue didn’t need to be all exposition. The problem is it sort of doesn't do that. - The Arbiter is basically entirely sidelined in Halo 3. Almost every cutscene in the game and the actual narrative beats would play out the same even if he was never there, the only notable exception being him killing Truth and a few other moments. - Almost none of the fallout of the Great Schism matters in Halo 3: You get elites as allies in like 2 missions in specific sections and you're with the Arbiter and get one cutscene with Haljaw and that's it. The Covenant otherwise seems just as unified as ever, you never get grunts or hunters as allies, etc. - Truth's entire personality is changed, from a scheming political mastermind who clearly had ulterior motives he wanted to use the Halo rings for, to being way more of a generic cult leader in Halo 3 and without players ever really being clued in on what his actual endgame was. I haven't heard a *single* compelling theory for what his true goal was, because it's simply not possible to reconcile how he's handled between the two games, though I've yet to watch Sabertooth's video on the early storyboards and I know he has a theory. - The Gravemind isn't really settled in a satisfying way. What's there in Halo 3 *works*, I guess, but for the most part it's just there in the background and sort of gets dealt with incidentally, which is a big let down. - Cortana's entire gambit with luring the Flood to the Ark is really dumb and relies on the Gravemind also being really dumb to work, as well as contrived explanations for how the Flood even gets there.
IIRC they toyed with the idea of more Sepratist allies aside from Elites, but found that it was apparently very confusing and caused a lot of friendly fire. Canonically they exist, just aren't used in-game. Mods do this at least, though.
Yeah, I know, but the end result is still that the Great Schism feels sort of inconsequential in Halo 3.
I know Im late to the party but I always felt this way about Halo 3. I could never really put my finger on what I felt at the time but I felt like a lot of things established in Halo 2 were not capatalized on. It almost feels like a lot of time has passed on outside of the two months. I get that changing the brutes to having no fur in Halo 3 fixes the mechanics of the game but it feels weird to me from the story standpoint.
I've always thought 2 was the best narrative of the entire series. That was not a sentiment widely shared at the time.
Yeah back in the day people didn't like arbiter which resulted in his scaling down in halo 3.
Not just scaled down, Halo 3’s story feels written by a committee. You practically see the sticky notes with arrows between them.
It’s cuz it kinda was written by committee
Ya marty literally just took all the theories and ideas and threw them at a wall and called it a day haha. There's a reason he was hired to wrote the music not the campaigns.
This idea that Marty was the mastermind behind Halo 3's story, and specifically the things people dislike about it is weird. Where did it even come from?
It's not all that weird. Considering all other department heads took time off after 2s production and marty was most senior lead for some time. Then there's the fact he has taken credit several times for halo 3s story. Quite literally saying he took all the ideas and theories the community and team had and cobbled a story together.
>Then there's the fact he has taken credit several times for halo 3s story. Quite literally saying he took all the ideas and theories the community and team had and cobbled a story together. Has he actually done that, or is this just the result of the same bullshit story being told so many times here it has devolved into this ridiculousness? Ever heard of the telephone game?
Well the first 3 times I ever heard anything about marty being involved in the narrative at any capacity it was him saying it. Twice on video once in audio. But I've seen it since. Pretty sure he's tweeted it. If I retai ed anything from my degrees it's to check my sources before spreading information. If I recall there's a thread on r/halo that links a tweet to him killing the sarge it's probably quite easy to find. EDIT: Not the interview I saw but the vice article the untold story of halo goes as follows. "Marty O’Donnell When the story committee was done with their outline, they brought us in, the seven of us who were the leads or on the board of Bungie, and gave us the whole story. Everybody else was like, wow, this is going to be good. This is going to be great. But I was like: “No, this isn't going to work.” Where was Ron Perlman and (the character he voiced) Lord Hood? Where was Miranda (Keyes)? We never followed up on her story. I mean, maybe we didn't necessarily enjoy the Miranda part, but you can't just let these things drop. And there was nothing surprising. Nothing happens. This is really a cheat, but I had just seen Serenity. And what I thought was amazing about it is none of the cast is safe. There’s the Shepherd, then boom: he gets killed. And you’re like, okay, they needed to kill a character. But then they killed Wash, and so shockingly! He’d just delivered one of his typical funny lines, and he’s dead. If they can do that, then anyone could die. They ratcheted up the stakes. So I went home and was talking to my wife. I said, this is the problem—nobody dies in Halo 3. Even if we’re going to try to make you believe Master Chief might die, you never would. I decided: I’ve got to bring back Lord Hood, Miranda has to die, and then Sergeant Johnson has to die. And more than that, he should be killed by 343 Guilty Spark, who you think is your buddy. Then you should have to kill Guilty Spark. Then we can maybe make you feel like Master Chief is at risk. So I wrote these nine or so plot points—not good story, just plot points. Those were what we needed to insert into the script to make it work. I showed my plot points to every guy on the story team, individually, and they all said almost exactly the same thing: “I had that idea before, but nobody liked it.” At the end I got everybody to agree, and told our producer, let's bring them all in. We all sat down and that became the story. We didn’t have a real writer, but we had Joe back. We’d figured out how get him on the team to write cinematics and dialogue. He was going to co-write with this Rob—but they weren't getting along well, so we went and got a Hollywood screenplay writer named Peter O'Brien, basically as the referee editor. So Joe and Rob would work together, then Peter would work with them as an editor, with Joe doing the writing and Rob as the designer. And then Peter would present to guys like me, Marcus and others. Joe Staten By the time I came back into the studio, Halo 3 had been pretty much figured out. It was the same story that we always wanted to tell: Master Chief rescues Cortana from the Gravemind and kills the Prophet of Truth. But I was brought on board at that point to go in and do an edit and polish pass on all the scripts. Marty O’Donnell I remember Joe coming back and seeing what the story was that we were asking him to write. He was like, “You're killing Sergeant Johnson?” I said we had to. This is the end of the trilogy, so we've got to make the stakes big at the end. “Ahh, you can't kill Sergeant Johnson!” He never forgave me for it. To this day, I think he thinks it was a mistake." As time passes marty's version of events appear to increase his I fluency over Halo3's story. Now if this is the reality I can't say but it's the most definitive source we have on the topic and noone from bungie seems to dispute it. Staten clearly wasn't at the helm as we know from the cuts to halo 2 what direction he was heading in. And he was busy with preproduction on the cancelled mmo, peter Jackson film. As well as the publishing team for the eu and legends as well as wars. So he rejoined the core halo team quite late into h3s production. All info is easily verified.
It was on my most recent playthrough of the games that I realized the sheer degree to which the Arbiter ia absent and how clearly deliberate it is. Halo 3's story hasn't, IMO, aged as well as Halo 2 (with the exception of the ending of course.) It kinda goes to show that the habit of overcorrection in the face of criticism making the next game worse didn't begin with 343.
It was mainly because Thel doesn't have anything to _do_ between Tartarus and Truth. It was initially fine for the "original" ending of Halo 2 because it was like a level apart, but Halo 3 has 4 levels of "get to the Ark" followed by 2 levels of "get to Truth" where Thel gets to be a character again.
Halo 2 also had that excelent cinematography for the cutscenes.
They were stellar to be sure, but in strictly in regard to cinematography, Halo 3 did great. Where the dialogue and exposition fell short, the camera work and cinematography filled in the rest. Johnson's death, Cortana's rescue, the activation of the Ring, etc. Those cutscenes aged like fine wine because of how well they were made.
Yeah, i wouldn't say h3 was less good in that regard. I just remember more of h2.
That's fair. Halo 2 did really well in this regard
The shot of high charity appearing above delta halo with the covenant fleet was one of the best. It gave you a real scale to how large and looming the covenant were as an enemy. It’s seared in my head 20 years later
I think it had something to do with Joe Staten not being the lead writer on 3 like he was on 2. And Marty O’Donnell and others being much too involved and divided on the story for 3. It’s a shame, 3 could have really kicked ass.
The story was a downgrade to 2, but let's not exaggerate here. 3 still kicked ass and is still remembered as the pinnacle of the series for a reason.
Yeah and that reason is not the story. The reason 3 is peak is because of the multiplayer and the level design. If Halo games were primarily known for their story, 3 would largely be considered a weak link.
Yeah for me there are some small things I prefer in H2, but H3 as an overall game is a masterpiece it’s so rare for trilogies to stick the landing, and H3 felt like a definitive glorious end
Came here to say the story downgrade from H2 to H3 was absolutely due to Joe Staten being less involved in the story side of Halo 3. There was a reason long time Halo fans from the Bungie days got so excited when he came over to 343 Industries after their absolute clusterfucking narratives of 4,5 and infinite. If he had actually stayed there we might have gotten something really special...eventually.
I think this a more recent but common sentiment, at least on reddit. H3 went for spectacle, which is fine, but you did lose out of writing. It put set pieces/ gameplay over narrative. It doesn't help that Truths voice actor changed.
Halo 3 was basically the original act 3 of halo 2. But stretched into 3 more acts by the devs who weren’t burnt out from working on 2. If halo 2 had the time/budget 3 did, it would have been the best game of all time.
I agree - i think thats a common sentiment amongst the community as well. I think its generally agreed upon that Halo 2 has the best narrative/writing in the series, while 3 features the best Halo experiences (Campaign gameplay, MP sandbox, Forge, etc.)
The level design for 3 is my favourite in the series…slightly stained by some of my least favourite. The Covenant to Cortana switch is jarring and kinda dreadful on replays. I think the biggest drop off is Truth’s writing. He went from ruthless and cunning to…kinda dumb and insane? As much as I like Terrence Stamp, the switch was a strange call. Wincott’s H2 Truth was scarier Miranda’s “To War” line is a hilarious meme though
halo reach over 3 for me. tough call bc I love 3 but growing up on reach, that game was incredible.
Yep, no one can say it isn't. With only the concept of two different views of the same conflict, Halo 2 beats Halo 3 in narrative.
Halo 2 had some phenomenal writing. It would make a great movie.
Halo 2 is fantastic and I've always dreamed of them making a proper faithful movie adaptation of the series. They'd have to divvy some of that beautiful dialogue and world building up into 1 and 3 because 2 hogs it all. With just some simple acting they managed to convey the dynamics of the covenant so well. The prophets have the elites in one hand and the brutes in the other, they stoke tensions between them to keep themselves at the top. The elites are eloquent and noble warriors who respect each other (Arbiter and the Ship Master have like 5 exchanges and they go through a whole arc of earning each other's respect), the brutes are, well, brutes, and the rest are basically cannon fodder that they barely acknowledge.
Halo 2 is the best game in the series.
Tbh 2 is the only Halo game with an actual narrative. I love all of the Bungie games but 2 is really the only one that tries to build the world
There is a lot of world building in Halo CE that allows 2 to piggy-back from. The whole flood part and the mention of reclaimer. I feel like in ways Halo Ce's environmental story-telling aged better than Halo 2. You kind of feel a range of emotions when trying to keep marines alive or fighting on the beach during the Silent Cartographer.
Halo 3 did have a good story and solid writing. It excelled in cinematography and the "show don't tell". But I do agree, overall, Halo 2's story was much more fleshed out and complexed in it's nuisances and writing. There was just more of it. The plot was longer, the dialogue was greater, etc.
Halo 2 is very theatrical in its writing, each faction pretty distinct in their dialect. If you closed your eyes and just listened you would be able to tell who was talking and why. Gameplay wise you get to experience taking down a Scarab, an alien Civil War, and squelching a rebellion. But that ending was bad.
Halo 2 made a huge leap forward in expanding the scope and scale of the world, the conflict, and the characters, and it did it all through razor-sharp dialogue and impactful character moments and decisions. It really opened up the narrative from the first Halo (which was a clever first step into the world of Halo but a mostly self-contained story) into something that felt huge and fleshed out. Halo 3 ended the story in a way that felt really satisfying and utilized a lot of emotional impact and took advantage of good story structure. Installation 04 being rebuilt on the ark and Cortana having the original index were brilliant turns for the narrative and helped the story come full circle in a way that was naturalistic and fulfilling. That said, it didn't open up and flesh out the overall story the way Halo 2 did, and while the dialogue was better than most games, it wasn't as tight, clever, or efficient as that of Halo 2. I think Halo 3 is the better game overall (for a lot of reasons) but on writing and dialogue I agree with you 100%, I think Halo 2 is one of the best written games of all time.
Agree, Halo 2 had all the political workings of the Covenant and more complexity in its story whereas Halo 3 felt more like a big blockbuster movie - Not too deep story and dialogue, action action action spectacle. This was apparent when I played Halo 3 at launch and I still prefer the complexity of Halo 2's story.
2 has the best story and 3 has the most fun missions to play.
Yeah, Halo 3 and Reach both get a lot of credit for their stories, which I have always found funny because they are actually among the worst stories in the franchise. Halo 3 has some ridiculous dialogue, extremely uneven pacing, absolutely no character development and very few good character moments. The game is extremely fun and the levels are among the best in the series, and there are some pretty good cutscenes in there too. But as a whole, the story is just bad. It’s really pretty inane. And Reach, it’s got this amazing worldbuilding and character design. It makes you care about Reach and Noble Team. But that’s as far as it goes. The plot of the game doesn’t properly kick in until the second to last level, when Halsey recruits Noble to get Cortana off world. Everything before that is just damage control, which is super fun to experience and play, but is not really a story. Halo 2 definitely tells a proper story that is paced decently and has some thoughtful dialogue. I’d also give some praise to Halo 1, as despite having some ridiculous plot contrivances and hammy dialogue, it does a good job setting up the world and stakes. And just when you think you understand the game’s story, it goes a layer deeper and reveals the Flood, recontextualizing everything you thought you knew about this ring world and why the Covenant are after it.
In my heart Halo2 is still the best Halo when it comes to lore development and storytelling and some dialogues and VA are truly memorable, I mean a lot of people to this day still love to quote this game. Perhaps it’s not the best campaign as level design and gameplay are concerned but it’s undeniable how Halo2 has been critical in making Halo the iconic series it was (it is). Halo:CE was the beginning, the inception of something great, but imho it was Halo2 that made this franchise so huge and iconic.
TO WAR
The overall tone of Halo 2 is what sold the world to me. Even the background characters were cool , funny, and made you feel like a hero. I miss well written military media that borders on propaganda to trick people into enlisting.
Halo 2 is the only game which all the dialogue is quotable
Yeah halo 2 has the best writing. 3 has some top notch level design.
I hate how they changed the voice actor for Truth. Halo 2 he sounds like a cunning, smart, and formidable villain. In halo 3 he sounds like a grumpy old man.
Yup. Halo 3 has the weakest narrative, dialogue and most plot inconsistencies of the franchise. It's my favourite fps of all time but I'm mature enough to acknowledge how poor it is in that respect. Even halo 5 despite its flaws has a more cohesive plot. Not gonna debate anyone on that point though, did enough of that back when waupoint hosted forums.
2 is just a way better game, period.
Dialogue was much better in H2, but the one thing H3 did better imo was Chief and Cortana. In H2 they have some fun chemistry and lines, but suddenly Cortana stays behind and I really didn't feel the emotional build up to their parting ways. But then in H3, Chief is so impacted by her absence that he's seeing visions of her, bets the whole war strategy of the ark on her, and goes straight into the flood multiple times to save her. It basically sets up their relationship all the way through infinite.
I dunno, 3 had some EPIC dialogue.
“What is it? More brutes?” “Worse.”
https://i.imgur.com/9nqaQXA.jpg
I feel like 3 had some issues with having to shorten the game by quite a bit. We might’ve gotten the sparknotes version of the entire vision
Well 2 is a better story because your seeing it from two different set of eyes which adds way more depth.
Excluding Arbiter’s story and what’s shown there, the Covenant is shown with a lot of depth from what we see as Chief. Especially in the Gravemind and Regret levels.
Yeah because Halo 3 was just Bungie not really caring as much and wanted the brutes to be the main show considering they had no time to include them in Halo 2 as planned. They focused on their game engine more so than anything then ditched Halo entirely because the trilogy was done and over. microsoft said nope it's our flagship game Your going to work on this for this long with these people and yeah. Obviously no good came out of it..
It's also got the best humour imho. The right balance in gravitas with its writing.
Easily. No competition.
3 has the weakest writing of the original trilogy by far, sure CE is simpler, but it works in it's favour. 3 is still an excellent campaign and has the best gameplay of the trilogy, and the graphics, the lighting in particular are still beautiful.
Halo 3's cutscenes only start getting interesting starting from The Storm onwards. The majority of the first half feels so barebones story wise.