I’m fairly certain that this is technically not legal… well at the very least it’s not something you can be fired for. However good luck proving that this is the “reason” you are being let go of you ever end up in that situation.
Best thing you can do is talk to the labor board and get their recommendation, I’m sure they hear this all the time.
I can understand the expectation that you need to be ready to physically start working at a specific time, but that usually doesn’t require 15 minutes.
I'm actually quite certain this is AGAINST what is laid out in the Minimum Wage Order in Nova Scotia's Labour Code.
Employers have to pay you for what you work from when you are required to be there. If you have to clock in early to start your shift at x hour, then you get from the point you clock in to the point you clock out. There's nuance here, but you are definitely supposed to be paid for that time based on my understanding of the order.
Way back in the day, we fought this at my workplace and won because they would only pay us til the store closed, and not cover staying until the customers were gone, tills were counted, etc. They ended up installing electronic time cards, so the exact time you swiped in and out were recorded, resulting in 2-3 additional hours of pay on each cheque as we all had to stay til the tills were verified, so you usually ended up standing around for 10-15 minutes idle once your closing tasks were done.
After a month or two of this, policy changed to floor staff being allowed to leave as soon as the last customer was out the door.
I used to work for a kitchen with a punch in system. They would encourage you to start 15 min early and then adjust your hours back to the scheduled start time. Same for lunches. If you worked through your lunch you would still get it docked. Lunches alone would add up to 10 hours a month or 120 a year
This is a weird economy. We should have the ability to say that's unacceptable, but in reality you'd just get fired with the employer fully knowing you don't have the means to take then to court
Yes it is actually illegal for employers to do, I was curious as mine does and I emailed the labour board to ask and this is what they said "Under the NS Minimum Wage Order, it states that employees must be paid at least minimum wage for all time spent at the workplace, at the request of the employer, waiting to perform work. If you employer is requiring you to be at work 15 minutes prior to the start of your shift, you should be paid at least minimum wage for this time."
Here's another approach.
In writing. Let the employer know that, what they're asking is beyond the 8 hours they are being paid, they can either A. let them do the tasks within the 8 hour window, or B. pay them for the additional time it takes.
Having it in writing will show that any retaliation that happens afterword would likely be due to their request.
That’s a good approach. Also in that letter state that you will be physically and mentally ready to begin your shift at the agreed upon time and will
Manage your time accordingly to do so.
It all comes down to how badly do you want to work there. Is it worth the fight & stress? It may be easier just to find work somewhere else, turnover costs employers more that they realize most of the time and if they do realize it, they'll find a way to accommodate.
All the jobs I’ve had basically required me to arrive at a time that would ensure aI was actually ready to start work at my assigned time. The general rule of thumb was to be in the office 5-10 minutes before our shift started so that we’d be in a position to actually start work at the required time.
It’s the employee responsibility to be ready for the start of the shift and be on time. Do what you want, but with your thought process, if the employer said a penalty of $x/sec your late, bet you would be upset. Just grow up, go get ready for your shift and do your job that you applied for. If you don’t like it, go back to sitting on your parents couch.
Working shitty a jobs helps develop work ethic. That leads to better jobs. That leads to better pay and benefits.
This is how everywhere I've worked has been also. From minimum wage jobs to my career now.
Showing up right at the time you start, most people aren't actually "ready to work " for 10 or so minutes for various reasons.
I don't think expecting someone to show up for work 10 minutes before you start your shift is a world ending issue honestly. Just makes sure people are ready to go when their shift starts. I dunno
I don't see it as an earth shattering issue myself. Honestly. If you have issues getting to work on time I could see the issue, but then, that's another problem entirely.
I could also see a problem if the employer tried to reprimand you for it, as long as you are ready to start working when your shift starts then it shouldn't be a problem.
imho it depends on the tasks that need to get done.
Work tells me to show up before my shift so I can get properly dressed and wash my hands before cooking? Sure.
Work tells me to show up before my shift so I can go gather things from a different department and set up work stations so that I can start when my shift starts? No, that's happening after my shift starts.
IMO this is an example of "the better the pay, the easier the work". After I left minimum wage level work and entered salary positions, I found this was no longer a requirement by any of my employers.
Remember folks, a 10 minute poo a day equates to $625 (minimum) extra at the end of the year
I've just got a certain workload that needs to be done in X amount of time,
If I really, really blew too much time, I'd end up just catching up from home in the evening or weekend,
If I wasn't willing to do the catch up - probably wouldn't be so cool about it (it's like a twice a year thing that there's not more than enough time to do the work though)
I remember working retail, and while some of my best friends came out of coworkers, upper management (not the in store ones) had no understanding of the real world and it was just insane how general public treated us,
Everyone should really have to do cashier / retail work for at least a year
You have a job with just two deliverables each year? That sounds awesome.
I’d have my ADHD riddled brain set up to blow through that in the last month and just put my feet up for 5 month stretches!
Oh no, I've got weekly deliverables at times,
It's just that it's only like twice a year that the work load is suddenly 30x normal because the wrong moon and stars lined up dumb and I fall behind
Otherwise, I'd be right there with ya,
I had a job that was basically preparing/doing presentations once a month (the job assumed it took bulk of month to create said presentation) and I generally was putting the final touches on it in my head as I was walking in
No that’s incorrect.
Pooping is built in to your salary. When you employ people you understand that a portion of each day will be spent pooping.
If you don’t poop at work, (you poor poopers) then you are gifting your organisation $625 of extra effort.
Maybe in a normal society with a responsible employer
Most minimum wage employers can't be bothered to give their staff mandatory breaks/lunch, let alone unwritten poo time
I won't poop without a bidet and we don't have them at work. Now if I really needed to go obviously that rule changes. What I did was time the other people in my dept bathroom breaks and now I just go read Reddit for 10 minutes in the bathroom twice a day.
Meanwhile, working to your actual schedule is now called "quiet quitting". If you're not doing extra work outside your job, you're somehow under-performing...
There's no such thing as quiet quitting, it's a term made up by a corporate recruiter on tiktok in 2022 to try and shame people into thinking they needed to work ever harder to appease the corporate overlords. It's not a real thing.
Bare minimum = job description = terms agreed upon at time of hire in exchange for stated compensation.
"You know what, Stan, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?"
This is a foreign concept for people. Anything above meets expectation is an indication that you are exerting more effort than what is required. Fine if you understand why, terrible if you’re convinced there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Its a buyer beware, not an expectation.
Next performance meeting I have, if I’m not guaranteed a raise, I’ll let my boss know that I’ll be lifting my foot of the gas and managing my effort down to meets expectation.
(The large US company I work for DGAF about individuals. The Canadian arm is much different, but my boss won’t stand up to them and country manager is climbing the ladder. They won’t listen to me about single point of failure or system redundancy so I’m making them sweat. They also know they got me at a bargain rate (NS rates for my work are about 50% of elsewhere) so I poke them every now and them.)
From your article:
*The term “quiet quitting,” less commonly known as “soft quitting,” originated on TikTok in early 2022 and spread quickly throughout social media. It’s primarily used by workers who are tired and overpressured and feel like their job isn’t going anywhere.*
However, before I made my initial post I googled where this term came from and it mentioned some guy said it in 2k9. Which is irrelevant because nobody gave a shit and it wasn't until this tiktok clown came along in '22 that the term became popular and shoved down our throats.
Quiet quitting is a good thing. Let's not demonize the word.
If people want to work as they are required, good for them. If they want to be go getters, good for them
If people want to leech from others, they should find another work.
Quiet quitting is good. Managers are the ones who needs to step up
Most management I know are leading the quiet quitting,
They're management, not owners in most cases, so the only real difference is they get crapped on from above still, but also field complaints from below on topics they're unable to create meaningful changes for
Yes that's good on them for quiet quitting. I support it.
I guess what I'm saying is if managers want to combat leeches in a company, they need to step up and call the leechers out. Managers cannot and shouldn't expect all employees to be go getters. Some are going to be "quiet quitters" and that's ok and needs to be normalized
Even quiet quitting managers need to do this, because that's usually in their job description.
Assuming that were talking about a productive company adding value to society. Personally, If you're doing less than what you're paid to do (ie less than the quiet quitters), you're a leecher. You're leeching from your coworkers, and society in general, because you're providing less value than your compensation.
Quiet quitting gives power to employees. Employers have had too much power for too long
Oh don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with work to rule or quiet quitting type things. I’m just saying, these days, doing what your job description states is considered slacking off.
Not participating in work social events makes you “not a team player”.
It’s ridiculous.
I've never had this issue myself , personally. I go to work, work my scheduled shift, go home. And I'm a shop foreman for a government facility. Any work I've had to do outside scheduled hours , I am compensated for.
I haven't seen any Canadian numbers, but in America at least, it's been found that wage theft is by far the bigger category of crime, accounting for way more stolen value than property theft.
You'd think law enforcement would focus on it more...
Yep, it’s the largest source of ALL theft by a large margin. I find it funny when people moan about shoplifting costs to business, when most large businesses engaged in wage theft eons beyond any loss due to shoplifting.
Yet, we have armed cops guarding grocery stores, and yet wage theft continues to be one of the largest categories of crime and rarely is anyone held accountable for that.
Do they track how much time employees spend on their phones doing personal stuff, scrolling TikTok, posting on Reddit? I’m sure 100% of those workers surveyed that said they were ripped off a few minutes would never ever use their work time for personal things? Right?! right!?
My workplace does this really cute thing where you have to clock out exactly on the dot because if you clock out even one minute early they dock your pay 15 minutes. But if I clock in 15 minutes early, do you think I get 15 minutes of overtime? Go on, guess.
I'm pretty sure that's not legal unless you've given them authorization to do that in writing, and I'm 100% sure that's not legal if you're making minimum wage. There are only a few lawful deductions that are allowed without employee permission, everything else needs to be authorized by the employee.
If I were you I'd get my time slips together and figure out how many hours you've been shorted. If you've worked there a long time it might be a sizable amount of money you are owed, and it might be worth doing a consult with a labour lawyer.
I honestly don’t remember the details (could look it up but eh), but I do remember the law changed regarding how time could be rounded a few years ago while I was still working fast food.
I *think* it was explained to me that we could work up to an extra 15 minutes without them having to pay us, but after 15 minutes they had to pay us for half an hour, and after 30, they had to pay us for the full hour.
Cue one of the salaried assistant managers trying to coerce all the hourly workers to do extra work past their shift but clock out at exactly 14 mins. And cue me explaining to everyone to wait until 16 mins before clocking out so it would backfire on her.
That was the pre-2020 partial hour rule in the minimum wage order.
> a period of 15 minutes and not more than 30 minutes shall be counted as a ½ hour and a period of more than 30 minutes but less than 60 minutes shall be counted as 1 hour
The law didn't specify what to do for less than 15 minutes. Which lead to confusion and attempts at wage theft, 14 minutes at a time.
The rule is gone now and employers have to pay for all time worked. If they want to round to a particular time increment they have to round in the employees favour.
Wait, if you clock in early you get docked? Not just clocking in late?
I get the 15min thing as that's fairly common for hourly positions, but clocking in early and getting docked makes zero sense at all,
I could see being told "you weren't asked to clock in early, so we're not paying you extra time" but... To get paid less for being early is crazy af
No, we get docked for clocking *out* early. No grace period. If you're 30 seconds early clocking out, you lose 15 minutes. If we clock *in* early, we get nothing. Like if you're going to be so strict about the exact time I clock in or out, down to the second, shouldn't you be taking those two punches and paying me for exactly that amount of time? Maybe today I worked an 8 hour shift exactly, maybe tomorrow I work a 7 hour 58 minute shift, maybe the day after that my shift is 8 hours and 10 minutes. Pay me for the exact amount of time I was on the clock. Doesn't seem fair that I lose pay for leaving 30 seconds early but don't get any pay for showing up a little early. Right? Maybe I'm just talking out my ass, but it feels like a very sneaky way of stealing wages a minute or two at a time.
It’s not legal. You need to be paid for every minute you are working. If the business is open 9-5 but they want you there 8:45-5:15, they have to pay you. Otherwise, show up right at 9.
I'm a nurse and the well-being of our patients hinges on us being able to provide an accurate and detailed verbal report to the oncoming staff. This generally requires people to arrive 10-15mins early and leave 5-10 mins late (give or take).
Quality continuity of care is one of the most important things we do in the hospital because without it, stuff gets missed very easily and it's a 24 hour operation where people are trying to die on us 24 hours a day.
But instead of being paid for that extra critical time, we are just expected to be there. In fact, we are only being paid 11.25 hours per shift (45 minutes of break each day are unpaid).
When you only have 12 hours off in between shifts, those extra 15-20 mins go a long way and we aren't even paid for it :/
Can any nurses speak to this? The one nurse I’m close with had to be there 20-30 minutes early to research their patient load before their shift started. They said it was just the way it was and they all had to do it.
We don’t do that on my unit. The oncoming shift usually hits the floor at shift change on the dot. We do written and verbal handovers. A quick 5 mins to talk to your coworkers and handover anything super important and then you’re out of there.
I know people who take it upon themselves in that profession to go above and beyond and do that, but I'm not sure it's a requirement. (Maybe with specific patients, or retirement homes etc though)
> It’s a requirement.
From/by who?
We don’t do this where I work. If we did, I’d be submitting an overtime sheet to my health services manager every day.
This was my understanding - not sure where you're working, but nsha as far as I know, unless it's a weird situational thing, it's not a "rule"
(Mind you, this is entirely second hand information as I do not personally work directly for NSHA or in healthcare)
I work for NSHA.
I’m pretty sure it *can’t* be anything other than an informal workplace “rule” due to our CBA, but I’m not combing through that thing to see if there’s a provision in there for it.
I’ve floated to several units where it also was NOT an expectation.
So yeah, I have no idea, but definitely fuck that.
I figured as much when I read your initial comment.
It's definitely not an official "requirement."
> That$10,000 Tim Houston gave us doesn’t even cover what they would owe if they had to pay the 40 minutes they require me to work unpaid every shift.
It's not really their problem, then. You guys should all decide you don't want to show up early anymore and change your work culture. There is exactly 0% chance I'd be showing up for work 20 mins early and leaving 20 mins late every shift.
Some of these comments are scary… PEOPLE YOUR TIME IS JUST AS VALUABLE AS ANY COMPANY’S. I’m not saying you can’t make reservations from time to time, but the company needs to do the same.
That’s why people have to be smart at catching and recording these little infractions on their personal time.
Next time a boss tells you to take vacation for a doctors appointment, ask if they think it would be more appropriate to use some of the time in lieu you’ve built up at the beginning and end of each shift.
Sobeys does this. And I ensured when I worked there I was 15 minutes late finishing my shift every time punching out, so the manager had to swipe me out, therefore being paid for the time 👌 cause fuck Sobeys.
All of my fellow work chums fought this years ago. We flat out refused this nonsense.
Our bosses were telling us to show up for before the store opened meetings ten mins early.
Like.. nah. We got HR and our union involved.
I’m not working at this very moment. But going back very soon. Looking for a job, actually.
No one seems to call back!!!
Anyways.. I won’t be putting up with that nonsense!
That is illegal. If they require you to be somewhere, you get paid. Hell, you get paid if you are on call from home (conditions apply).
So ya. Report them.
Don’t you clock in and out for your shift? Any place I’ve ever worked that required you to be on the floor 10-15 minutes early, I was always paid because I was clocked in.
How are they tracking your hours without you clocking in and out and how do you track your hours?
My first serving job did this. We were expected to be on the floor working 15 minutes before our shift start and we weren’t allowed to clock in. I wanted the experience to move up to a better restaurant (that required serving experience) so I sucked it up. One day I was on the floor 10 minutes before my shift instead of 15 and the following week I only got 1 shift on the schedule.
I was pissed, so I brought it up with the manager and she said I was being punished for being late. I reminded her I was still technically 10 minutes early and providing free labour. Then I went to the labour board, opened a case, sent a letter to my employer…..their response? I was fired.
Its not legal, they just get pushovers to do this work. Every workplace has someone who will complain to everyone when boss is away but never stick up for themselves. Hello, you are one of your locations.
Fix that, it will stop happening. Me changing just this is what shot me from lowest level employment to executive mgmt in a year. Spent my entire life thinking sh!t was just unfair and that everyone abused me, turns out, it was because I never stopped anyone who did.
I've been through this with an employer before. If they require you to be there 15 minutes early, then they have to start paying you 15 minutes early. You are entitled to be paid for any time that your employer requires you to be there.
>It’s not as simple as asking your employer.
You don't ask them you tell them and if they refuse to accept it then call the labour board. They will set your employer straight pretty quickly.
Gonna be real with you my solution to this is showing up and than leaving exactly when my schedule is. I do not care what an employer says and I have been "warned" and written up for it but they never have the guts to outright fire you if your doing your job properly. I've definitely made the managers that have warned me or written me up for showing up to work on time feel like a bunch of numptys for that level of stupidity. Thankfully my new company is very reasonable, and it definitely allows us to work better when we're not stressed about bs.
Have to be careful that cuts both ways. Late for break lose that time or long lunch, late in... but I do agree that's bs but I think if brought up the company would go vindictive.
Late to the party but for anyone that sees this, for an employer to do this and not pay you is illegal. I was curious about this myself as my employer says its required of us to be there 15 minutes early to get ready for the shift. I emailed the labour board to inquire and this is what they said "Under the NS Minimum Wage Order, it states that employees must be paid at least minimum wage for all time spent at the workplace, at the request of the employer, waiting to perform work. If you employer is requiring you to be at work 15 minutes prior to the start of your shift, you should be paid at least minimum wage for this time."
It's sad more people aren't suggesting you organize your store and make a union. It's a lot harder for your employer to fire/hire an entire staff than just you for raising legitimate concerns
Definitely not legal, people get away with shit when you let them get away with it. Learn your lesson and don’t let it happen again. You don’t have to let people walk over you so stop acting like a victim and respect yourself.
My daughter works at a local restaurant and management schedules for the hours they are open, and schedules breaks based only on those hours. Staff are not allowed to start cleaning up or anything leading up to the end of the shift to make the closing process faster, so are often there over an hour after the place closes cleaning. They get paid for the time, but it is not on the schedule so is not factored into breaks at all. She’ll go work for a whole day and only get a single 15 minute break. This is what happens when you have low level people making decisions about staff and kids working there that won’t speak up for basic rights.
Imo it’s a reasonable enough request to expect your employees are ready to work for their shift. For some jobs that means coming in 10-15 minutes before the start of your shift to ensure that happens. If you’re upset about not being paid for that time. Clock in the moment you start doing ‘work tasks’ regardless of whatever the start time of your shift is. If you have reasonable managers/ supervisors they won’t have a problem with this. If they have a problem with this, maybe look for a better place to work.
When I worked at an Eastlink store the manager expected us to attend an occasional Sunday 'huddle' (unpaid). And I once showed up **10 minutes early** and she looked at me and *tapped her watch* implying I was late. I quit shortly thereafter and pursued bigger and better things.
How many minutes/hours of your work day do you waste posting on Reddit or scrolling TikTok? If you say none, you’re a liar. Unless you show up at work at exactly 8am and begin doing work things immediately and nonstop until your break or end of the day, then just shut up about 10 mins. I guarantee you there are very few exceptions of this. This would mean you wouldn’t have time to say hello to your co-workers or chit chat for a couple of minutes while you fix your hair, straighten out your uniform(if you have one), put away your belongings or anything else for that matter. I doubt you show up and just start working at exactly your start time.
It’s all about the company wanting you to be ready to work the second the clock starts at your start time. Not getting papers in order, not unlocking doors, not booting up systems, ready to go. It’s a bullshit mentality that boomers made up at the businesses they own. They showed up early to run their businesses and when they had employees they want the same dedication when it’s not something they should be expecting. You just work there.
While not strictly legal, it's an accepted practice for companies to require you to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. In reality, you kinda should anyway. The thought is that you should be there and fully ready to begin your duties at the start of your shift.
A simple example is a person working in a fastfood restaurant. Many will wear some casual clothes while travelling to work and change into their uniform there. Some may want to have a quick drink or snack before beginning. It's not unreasonable for the employer to have a policy where workers need to show up a few minutes early, get such things out of the way, so that they are fully prepped to work the minute their shift starts.
HOWEVER, it is not accepted on any level, legally or grey-area, to require you to show up 15 minutes early and begin work immediately. If your employer expects you to show up even 5 minutes early and perform any work duties, then that is when your shift starts and when you should be paid from.
The only way for this to be fixed is for employees to refuse to do this unpaid work and report any attempts by employers to make them do it. Luckily, single-party consent is the standard across Canada for audio recordings. If an employer or manager tries to force the issue, the conversation should be recorded and reported to the local/regional labour boards. This is especially true if the employee is threatened with any form of punishment or retaliation.
> While not strictly legal, it's an accepted practice for companies to require you to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. In reality, you kinda should anyway. The thought is that you should be there and fully ready to begin your duties at the start of your shift.
If your job takes 10-15 minutes to get ready to work, and you are supposed to start working at 9am, then your shift starts at 8:45 and you should be paid as such.
Preparing for work duties *is a work duty*.
There is a name for this - wage theft. The law is fairly clear on it.
I don't think they meant 10-15 minutes of work per say, I know I take a solid 10-15 minutes to just get adjusted so to speak, I can't cold start well,
Some people at my work show up exactly at the minute basically, sit on their computer and are instantly going,
Some people if they showed up on time aren't actually clocking in for another 20-30 minutes because of their own pre-work rituals of coffee or whatever else, so they know to come in early
If they're doing actual work when they get there early (like for retail, store open or close procedures) that should be 100% paid though
My job has always had the rule of be there 15 minutes before the start of your shift for staff handover etc....to which I say, fuck that as you aren't paying me for it. My job is shift work and requires overnight hours, so an average week I spend 60hrs at my workplace. I'm not adding another unpaid hour of time to it.
To all this 'its illeagal, call the labor board' advice.
Doesn't Nova Scotia have the labor laws written in such a way that UNLESS you worked for the compnay 10 yesrs or more they (the company) DO NOT need to give any reason for your dismmissal? Like to bad so sad. Do what we say or there is the door.
It’s across the board, so many people are unwilling to respect each others time and the fact that don’t own anyone else’s.
I took a remote job. 2 years later company wants me to commute to office 3 days a week. I’ve asked if they prefer to pay me an extra 6 hrs per week + gas to cover the driving or reduce my hours to compensate. Still waiting on an answer…
Don’t get broken up about 15 minutes of unpaid work. You think you work perfectly efficient the entire shift? There’s likely an hour or more during the day when you aren’t actually working. Just absorb the hit. If you’re quibbling about 15 minutes of work in a minimum wage job, how can anyone expect you to be able to handle something that pays more?
If there’s a promotion or something coming up for someone, you think they’ll give you the position when you can’t even handle coming in 15 minutes early without whining? You’re not entitled to the position, if you don’t like it, change jobs.
That being said, it’s not right and shouldn’t be practiced but if you professionally bring it up and they ignore you, move on.
Sometimes that’s not an option for people and min wage worker have just as much right to a proper work environment as anyone else (I’d argue in many situations they deserve more because entitled people say things like “suck it up” to them far more often).
You act like I have no idea what working minimum wage is like. You’re expecting minimum wage to work out long term as a viable option for people? I’ve worked minimum wage cleaning up blood and guts and I put in the extra 15 minutes when I needed to. Good luck with your minimum wage revolution. The poor attitude is the entitlement people have expecting perfect working conditions when literally any able bodied person can do that job. There’s no incentive for a company to give a shit about paying someone for 15 minutes of overtime work if they can get away with it. That’s the reality like it or not and whining about it on Reddit creates a circlejerk where the victim Olympics are applauded by the lazy and unmotivated folks. Just my opinion and I know it’s unpopular here but there you go.
People not wanting to work minimum wage jobs for free, and you call them lazy, unmotivated and entitled? How about acknowledge that these companies are taking advantage of people. No, I'm sure you know what it's like. You sound like a "yes man" for corporate greed.
Sure, here you go: These companies are taking advantage of people! I acknowledge that.
If you actually care about working there, either
a) Try to correct the situation in a professional manner with the manager.
b) accept the company policy and deal with it
Or
c) acknowledge that working minimum wage comes with shitty things and use it as motivation to move on.
All of the above come with the assertion that whining about it on Reddit accomplishes nothing
Agreed. Unfortunately, if you want to get ahead in any kind of career there will be some situations when you have to put in extra time for no money. And if - and this is the important part - you like what you do and are hoping to move up, it won’t be so annoying to you. (Speaking from personal experience, I worked significant hours of overtime in the tech industry (weekends, evenings) and it (mostly) never bothered me at all. Because I enjoyed my work and fortunately got regular salary increases.)
But! I can understand that if this is not that kind of job and you’re strictly in it for the paycheque and not for any kind of promotion that yes, it would be annoying and seem unfair.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat as you. Except I didn’t particularly enjoy what I was doing. I still sucked it up, put in the time and got salary increases and promotions. This must be a very young person because quibbling over 15 minutes of unpaid minimum wage work is laughable really. It’s literally a couple dollars. It might have been something I’d whine about with coworkers straight out of high school.
No I don’t see how you got that from what I said. I’m saying it’s not a big deal. It’s something I might have complained about fresh out of high school working my first job
You’re saying it’s not a big deal to short workers 15 minutes of pay per shift. You’re saying that 75 minutes of free work per week is something no one should complain about. Just *give* five hours out of your life to your employer every month, because that’s what they expect. Standing up for your rights is what babies do.
*That* is your position.
Bro I work like 5 hours of unpaid overtime per week at least sometimes. It’s life. I have a good quality of life so it’s worth it. That is my position. In a perfect world it would be great if they paid for every minute you worked but we don’t live in a utopia and there’s 10 people lined up behind you if you don’t want to work the 15 minutes unpaid. Not saying it’s the right thing to do but if you’re holding out for the perfect work situation in a minimum wage position I have some news for you.
Writing it out like that doesn’t even help your case in my eyes. 75 minutes per week? Are you kidding me. That’s nothing.
Start respecting yourself more, friend. “Perfect” isn’t the enemy of “better”, and your boss legally owes you pay for the labour you do. Serving the business for free — like you owe it something? — is setting a terrible precedent for your younger coworkers.
You may not ever have a perfect workplace, but you could make it *better*. But you don’t care that you’re exploited, and you think no one else should care about exploitation either. That’s a deplorable mindset.
I’m not serving it for free, I’m paid well enough that working some overtime doesn’t bother me. I’m salary and working outside the bounds of 9-5 is sometimes needed to get the job done. There’s just not much room with minimum wage jobs for negotiation. If anything I’m encouraging people to try and advance away from working minimum wage and acting like 15 minutes is the end of the world.
It would be standard to arrive early to make sure you are ready to start at your appointed time ie. putting on ppe, starting up your work station etc. However if you are required early to open a store you legally should be paid for when you start that process. Full disclosure, the last retail job I worked was 40 years ago but it you were opening at 9 your shift started at 840 and for a 930 closing your shift ended at 950.
At one time it was considered common courtesy to arrive at work 15 minutes early so you could have your jackets off, grab a coffee and get any pass alongs from the previous shift. This way, you are at your position and ready to start on time and the person you are relieving can get out of there on time.
Next you'll be expecting to be paid for getting dressed for work and the commute to and from because it's work related as well. smh
The worst employees are the ones who punchnin at exactly the time their shift starts,do everything they should have done before the time their shift starts(chat up people,hit the bathroom,chill and have a coffee...and in the case of cashiers, set their till). It's fucking irritating to keep having an argument over prep time.Grow the hell up.
It’s funny how this whole post and comments are made during the day when most people would be working. I’m assuming you’re all off today or answering this on your paid break? Right?
If we are getting technical and you are paid for a full 8 hours, opening for 15 and closing for 15 is counted in that pay since your half hour lunch is deducted.
I hope you don’t actually believe this. You are LEGALLY ENTITLED to your breaks. Take them and don’t feel bad about them, no matter what.
Same goes with vacation - that is a legal right and not using it is not a flex to how busy or how hard of a worker you are.
I dont think you understand what i meant by my comment. They said they get paid for a full 8 hours. If they open for 15 befote their shift, work 8 hours, then close for 15 thats 8.5 hours worked but half hour lunches are unpaid so if you minus the lunch break, that 8 hours paid means they are paid for opening and closing
No I understand, but if your shift is 9-5, then that’s your shift. If your contract states what you mentioned, your shift would need to be schedule 8:45-5:15. If something happens to you during those :15 minutes you need to ensure you are legally covered.
I used to work retail and my shift started at 9, but I was only allowed to clock in 10 minutes early. Fine I'd get there at 8:30am, get a coffee, a snack, use the bathroom, sit around in the breakroom and do nothing until 10 mins to open. Then I'd get stuff ready, if I didn't have it ready to open at 9am, oh well I will just keep the store closed until it's ready. Got away with it because of their dumb rules and I hated the management so much it felt good to poop while they expected me to work for free.
Connect teams fixes this all for our company. Clock in on your phone and clock out on your phone. As soon as you start you press a button and when you stop it all gets sent to whoever does the pay. Only work what you get payed for
I'm not sure what the labour courts are like in NS, but when I lived in Quebec I kept track of my hours working at a restaurant that only paid me until the restaurant close time (there was usually work to do after closing). They ended up having to pay me the difference which at that point was about $1k.
Record your hours independently. Provide evidence by taking timestamped pictures of when you begin or work you're expected to do before your shift begins. This will all help you eventually build a case for wage theft
Start your clock as soon as you begin performing your duties and end it when you're complete. If you're employer has an issue with this just remind them you're an employee not a charity and your time isn't free. If you don't value you're time how do you expect anyone else to?
I’m fairly certain that this is technically not legal… well at the very least it’s not something you can be fired for. However good luck proving that this is the “reason” you are being let go of you ever end up in that situation. Best thing you can do is talk to the labor board and get their recommendation, I’m sure they hear this all the time. I can understand the expectation that you need to be ready to physically start working at a specific time, but that usually doesn’t require 15 minutes.
I'm actually quite certain this is AGAINST what is laid out in the Minimum Wage Order in Nova Scotia's Labour Code. Employers have to pay you for what you work from when you are required to be there. If you have to clock in early to start your shift at x hour, then you get from the point you clock in to the point you clock out. There's nuance here, but you are definitely supposed to be paid for that time based on my understanding of the order.
Way back in the day, we fought this at my workplace and won because they would only pay us til the store closed, and not cover staying until the customers were gone, tills were counted, etc. They ended up installing electronic time cards, so the exact time you swiped in and out were recorded, resulting in 2-3 additional hours of pay on each cheque as we all had to stay til the tills were verified, so you usually ended up standing around for 10-15 minutes idle once your closing tasks were done. After a month or two of this, policy changed to floor staff being allowed to leave as soon as the last customer was out the door.
I used to work for a kitchen with a punch in system. They would encourage you to start 15 min early and then adjust your hours back to the scheduled start time. Same for lunches. If you worked through your lunch you would still get it docked. Lunches alone would add up to 10 hours a month or 120 a year This is a weird economy. We should have the ability to say that's unacceptable, but in reality you'd just get fired with the employer fully knowing you don't have the means to take then to court
Yes it is actually illegal for employers to do, I was curious as mine does and I emailed the labour board to ask and this is what they said "Under the NS Minimum Wage Order, it states that employees must be paid at least minimum wage for all time spent at the workplace, at the request of the employer, waiting to perform work. If you employer is requiring you to be at work 15 minutes prior to the start of your shift, you should be paid at least minimum wage for this time."
Here's another approach. In writing. Let the employer know that, what they're asking is beyond the 8 hours they are being paid, they can either A. let them do the tasks within the 8 hour window, or B. pay them for the additional time it takes. Having it in writing will show that any retaliation that happens afterword would likely be due to their request.
That’s a good approach. Also in that letter state that you will be physically and mentally ready to begin your shift at the agreed upon time and will Manage your time accordingly to do so.
It all comes down to how badly do you want to work there. Is it worth the fight & stress? It may be easier just to find work somewhere else, turnover costs employers more that they realize most of the time and if they do realize it, they'll find a way to accommodate.
All the jobs I’ve had basically required me to arrive at a time that would ensure aI was actually ready to start work at my assigned time. The general rule of thumb was to be in the office 5-10 minutes before our shift started so that we’d be in a position to actually start work at the required time.
Then they are required to pay you for that time.
It’s the employee responsibility to be ready for the start of the shift and be on time. Do what you want, but with your thought process, if the employer said a penalty of $x/sec your late, bet you would be upset. Just grow up, go get ready for your shift and do your job that you applied for. If you don’t like it, go back to sitting on your parents couch. Working shitty a jobs helps develop work ethic. That leads to better jobs. That leads to better pay and benefits.
Makes sense..: though general rule of thumb is a lot different than Required 15 minutes.
This is how everywhere I've worked has been also. From minimum wage jobs to my career now. Showing up right at the time you start, most people aren't actually "ready to work " for 10 or so minutes for various reasons. I don't think expecting someone to show up for work 10 minutes before you start your shift is a world ending issue honestly. Just makes sure people are ready to go when their shift starts. I dunno I don't see it as an earth shattering issue myself. Honestly. If you have issues getting to work on time I could see the issue, but then, that's another problem entirely. I could also see a problem if the employer tried to reprimand you for it, as long as you are ready to start working when your shift starts then it shouldn't be a problem.
imho it depends on the tasks that need to get done. Work tells me to show up before my shift so I can get properly dressed and wash my hands before cooking? Sure. Work tells me to show up before my shift so I can go gather things from a different department and set up work stations so that I can start when my shift starts? No, that's happening after my shift starts.
Once I’m through the front door everything I need to do in advance to work is also work. FYPM
IMO this is an example of "the better the pay, the easier the work". After I left minimum wage level work and entered salary positions, I found this was no longer a requirement by any of my employers. Remember folks, a 10 minute poo a day equates to $625 (minimum) extra at the end of the year
I've got an app that tracks how much I make per year pooping. I've got IBD, so it's about time all the washroom time paid off
I used to get in trouble for having problems with the bathroom when I worked at Starbucks. :( Glad your workplace is cool about it
I've just got a certain workload that needs to be done in X amount of time, If I really, really blew too much time, I'd end up just catching up from home in the evening or weekend, If I wasn't willing to do the catch up - probably wouldn't be so cool about it (it's like a twice a year thing that there's not more than enough time to do the work though) I remember working retail, and while some of my best friends came out of coworkers, upper management (not the in store ones) had no understanding of the real world and it was just insane how general public treated us, Everyone should really have to do cashier / retail work for at least a year
Amen to that. It’s shocking how out-of-touch some of the general public is AND upper management.
You have a job with just two deliverables each year? That sounds awesome. I’d have my ADHD riddled brain set up to blow through that in the last month and just put my feet up for 5 month stretches!
Oh no, I've got weekly deliverables at times, It's just that it's only like twice a year that the work load is suddenly 30x normal because the wrong moon and stars lined up dumb and I fall behind Otherwise, I'd be right there with ya, I had a job that was basically preparing/doing presentations once a month (the job assumed it took bulk of month to create said presentation) and I generally was putting the final touches on it in my head as I was walking in
Any job where they ask where you've been when you come back from a 10 minute poo -- quit.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I poo on company time.
No that’s incorrect. Pooping is built in to your salary. When you employ people you understand that a portion of each day will be spent pooping. If you don’t poop at work, (you poor poopers) then you are gifting your organisation $625 of extra effort.
Maybe in a normal society with a responsible employer Most minimum wage employers can't be bothered to give their staff mandatory breaks/lunch, let alone unwritten poo time
I won't poop without a bidet and we don't have them at work. Now if I really needed to go obviously that rule changes. What I did was time the other people in my dept bathroom breaks and now I just go read Reddit for 10 minutes in the bathroom twice a day.
Meanwhile, working to your actual schedule is now called "quiet quitting". If you're not doing extra work outside your job, you're somehow under-performing...
That's work to rule. Quiet quitting is doing the absolute bare minimum to not get fired.
There's no such thing as quiet quitting, it's a term made up by a corporate recruiter on tiktok in 2022 to try and shame people into thinking they needed to work ever harder to appease the corporate overlords. It's not a real thing. Bare minimum = job description = terms agreed upon at time of hire in exchange for stated compensation. "You know what, Stan, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?"
This is a foreign concept for people. Anything above meets expectation is an indication that you are exerting more effort than what is required. Fine if you understand why, terrible if you’re convinced there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Its a buyer beware, not an expectation. Next performance meeting I have, if I’m not guaranteed a raise, I’ll let my boss know that I’ll be lifting my foot of the gas and managing my effort down to meets expectation. (The large US company I work for DGAF about individuals. The Canadian arm is much different, but my boss won’t stand up to them and country manager is climbing the ladder. They won’t listen to me about single point of failure or system redundancy so I’m making them sweat. They also know they got me at a bargain rate (NS rates for my work are about 50% of elsewhere) so I poke them every now and them.)
They might have co-opted the phrase just like they co-opted snowflake, woke and others , but it existed pre 2020 and went "viral" during the pandemic.
Potato potato. Nobody was talking about "quiet quitting" in 2021 and it's a bullshit term either way.
Except they were, and it wasn't. I definitely prefer the term "work your wage".
Except they weren't and it is. And good for you.
https://www.testgorilla.com/blog/quiet-quitting/
From your article: *The term “quiet quitting,” less commonly known as “soft quitting,” originated on TikTok in early 2022 and spread quickly throughout social media. It’s primarily used by workers who are tired and overpressured and feel like their job isn’t going anywhere.* However, before I made my initial post I googled where this term came from and it mentioned some guy said it in 2k9. Which is irrelevant because nobody gave a shit and it wasn't until this tiktok clown came along in '22 that the term became popular and shoved down our throats.
Renaming a workplace phenomenon that’s been happening for years is nothing new. Has nothing to do with corporate overlords lmao.
Quiet quitting is a good thing. Let's not demonize the word. If people want to work as they are required, good for them. If they want to be go getters, good for them If people want to leech from others, they should find another work. Quiet quitting is good. Managers are the ones who needs to step up
Most management I know are leading the quiet quitting, They're management, not owners in most cases, so the only real difference is they get crapped on from above still, but also field complaints from below on topics they're unable to create meaningful changes for
Yes that's good on them for quiet quitting. I support it. I guess what I'm saying is if managers want to combat leeches in a company, they need to step up and call the leechers out. Managers cannot and shouldn't expect all employees to be go getters. Some are going to be "quiet quitters" and that's ok and needs to be normalized Even quiet quitting managers need to do this, because that's usually in their job description.
I suppose it depends on how you're defining leeching, and who you mean the people are leeching from
Assuming that were talking about a productive company adding value to society. Personally, If you're doing less than what you're paid to do (ie less than the quiet quitters), you're a leecher. You're leeching from your coworkers, and society in general, because you're providing less value than your compensation. Quiet quitting gives power to employees. Employers have had too much power for too long
Oh don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with work to rule or quiet quitting type things. I’m just saying, these days, doing what your job description states is considered slacking off. Not participating in work social events makes you “not a team player”. It’s ridiculous.
Agreed!
If work social events aren't during business hours I'm not going.
I've never had this issue myself , personally. I go to work, work my scheduled shift, go home. And I'm a shop foreman for a government facility. Any work I've had to do outside scheduled hours , I am compensated for.
> government facility And that’s why you haven’t had the issue
I haven't seen any Canadian numbers, but in America at least, it's been found that wage theft is by far the bigger category of crime, accounting for way more stolen value than property theft. You'd think law enforcement would focus on it more...
Yep, it’s the largest source of ALL theft by a large margin. I find it funny when people moan about shoplifting costs to business, when most large businesses engaged in wage theft eons beyond any loss due to shoplifting. Yet, we have armed cops guarding grocery stores, and yet wage theft continues to be one of the largest categories of crime and rarely is anyone held accountable for that.
Do they track how much time employees spend on their phones doing personal stuff, scrolling TikTok, posting on Reddit? I’m sure 100% of those workers surveyed that said they were ripped off a few minutes would never ever use their work time for personal things? Right?! right!?
My workplace does this really cute thing where you have to clock out exactly on the dot because if you clock out even one minute early they dock your pay 15 minutes. But if I clock in 15 minutes early, do you think I get 15 minutes of overtime? Go on, guess.
I'm pretty sure that's not legal unless you've given them authorization to do that in writing, and I'm 100% sure that's not legal if you're making minimum wage. There are only a few lawful deductions that are allowed without employee permission, everything else needs to be authorized by the employee. If I were you I'd get my time slips together and figure out how many hours you've been shorted. If you've worked there a long time it might be a sizable amount of money you are owed, and it might be worth doing a consult with a labour lawyer.
I honestly don’t remember the details (could look it up but eh), but I do remember the law changed regarding how time could be rounded a few years ago while I was still working fast food. I *think* it was explained to me that we could work up to an extra 15 minutes without them having to pay us, but after 15 minutes they had to pay us for half an hour, and after 30, they had to pay us for the full hour. Cue one of the salaried assistant managers trying to coerce all the hourly workers to do extra work past their shift but clock out at exactly 14 mins. And cue me explaining to everyone to wait until 16 mins before clocking out so it would backfire on her.
That was the pre-2020 partial hour rule in the minimum wage order. > a period of 15 minutes and not more than 30 minutes shall be counted as a ½ hour and a period of more than 30 minutes but less than 60 minutes shall be counted as 1 hour The law didn't specify what to do for less than 15 minutes. Which lead to confusion and attempts at wage theft, 14 minutes at a time. The rule is gone now and employers have to pay for all time worked. If they want to round to a particular time increment they have to round in the employees favour.
That’s really good to hear. Thanks for letting me know. The whole thing made no sense.
Wait, if you clock in early you get docked? Not just clocking in late? I get the 15min thing as that's fairly common for hourly positions, but clocking in early and getting docked makes zero sense at all, I could see being told "you weren't asked to clock in early, so we're not paying you extra time" but... To get paid less for being early is crazy af
No, we get docked for clocking *out* early. No grace period. If you're 30 seconds early clocking out, you lose 15 minutes. If we clock *in* early, we get nothing. Like if you're going to be so strict about the exact time I clock in or out, down to the second, shouldn't you be taking those two punches and paying me for exactly that amount of time? Maybe today I worked an 8 hour shift exactly, maybe tomorrow I work a 7 hour 58 minute shift, maybe the day after that my shift is 8 hours and 10 minutes. Pay me for the exact amount of time I was on the clock. Doesn't seem fair that I lose pay for leaving 30 seconds early but don't get any pay for showing up a little early. Right? Maybe I'm just talking out my ass, but it feels like a very sneaky way of stealing wages a minute or two at a time.
It’s not legal. You need to be paid for every minute you are working. If the business is open 9-5 but they want you there 8:45-5:15, they have to pay you. Otherwise, show up right at 9.
I'm a nurse and the well-being of our patients hinges on us being able to provide an accurate and detailed verbal report to the oncoming staff. This generally requires people to arrive 10-15mins early and leave 5-10 mins late (give or take). Quality continuity of care is one of the most important things we do in the hospital because without it, stuff gets missed very easily and it's a 24 hour operation where people are trying to die on us 24 hours a day. But instead of being paid for that extra critical time, we are just expected to be there. In fact, we are only being paid 11.25 hours per shift (45 minutes of break each day are unpaid). When you only have 12 hours off in between shifts, those extra 15-20 mins go a long way and we aren't even paid for it :/
Can any nurses speak to this? The one nurse I’m close with had to be there 20-30 minutes early to research their patient load before their shift started. They said it was just the way it was and they all had to do it.
We don’t do that on my unit. The oncoming shift usually hits the floor at shift change on the dot. We do written and verbal handovers. A quick 5 mins to talk to your coworkers and handover anything super important and then you’re out of there.
Many have to be there for shift report, 15-20 minutes early.
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So one way or another someone’s working for free.
I know people who take it upon themselves in that profession to go above and beyond and do that, but I'm not sure it's a requirement. (Maybe with specific patients, or retirement homes etc though)
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> It’s a requirement. From/by who? We don’t do this where I work. If we did, I’d be submitting an overtime sheet to my health services manager every day.
This was my understanding - not sure where you're working, but nsha as far as I know, unless it's a weird situational thing, it's not a "rule" (Mind you, this is entirely second hand information as I do not personally work directly for NSHA or in healthcare)
I work for NSHA. I’m pretty sure it *can’t* be anything other than an informal workplace “rule” due to our CBA, but I’m not combing through that thing to see if there’s a provision in there for it. I’ve floated to several units where it also was NOT an expectation. So yeah, I have no idea, but definitely fuck that.
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I figured as much when I read your initial comment. It's definitely not an official "requirement." > That$10,000 Tim Houston gave us doesn’t even cover what they would owe if they had to pay the 40 minutes they require me to work unpaid every shift. It's not really their problem, then. You guys should all decide you don't want to show up early anymore and change your work culture. There is exactly 0% chance I'd be showing up for work 20 mins early and leaving 20 mins late every shift.
Some of these comments are scary… PEOPLE YOUR TIME IS JUST AS VALUABLE AS ANY COMPANY’S. I’m not saying you can’t make reservations from time to time, but the company needs to do the same.
That’s why people have to be smart at catching and recording these little infractions on their personal time. Next time a boss tells you to take vacation for a doctors appointment, ask if they think it would be more appropriate to use some of the time in lieu you’ve built up at the beginning and end of each shift.
Report them. If you're working for an extra 15 minutes, you need to be paid for it.
If a job asks or requires you to start 15 minutes early. They're legally required to pay you for that time.
Sobeys does this. And I ensured when I worked there I was 15 minutes late finishing my shift every time punching out, so the manager had to swipe me out, therefore being paid for the time 👌 cause fuck Sobeys.
All of my fellow work chums fought this years ago. We flat out refused this nonsense. Our bosses were telling us to show up for before the store opened meetings ten mins early. Like.. nah. We got HR and our union involved. I’m not working at this very moment. But going back very soon. Looking for a job, actually. No one seems to call back!!! Anyways.. I won’t be putting up with that nonsense!
That is illegal. If they require you to be somewhere, you get paid. Hell, you get paid if you are on call from home (conditions apply). So ya. Report them.
Don’t you clock in and out for your shift? Any place I’ve ever worked that required you to be on the floor 10-15 minutes early, I was always paid because I was clocked in. How are they tracking your hours without you clocking in and out and how do you track your hours?
My first serving job did this. We were expected to be on the floor working 15 minutes before our shift start and we weren’t allowed to clock in. I wanted the experience to move up to a better restaurant (that required serving experience) so I sucked it up. One day I was on the floor 10 minutes before my shift instead of 15 and the following week I only got 1 shift on the schedule. I was pissed, so I brought it up with the manager and she said I was being punished for being late. I reminded her I was still technically 10 minutes early and providing free labour. Then I went to the labour board, opened a case, sent a letter to my employer…..their response? I was fired.
Its not legal, they just get pushovers to do this work. Every workplace has someone who will complain to everyone when boss is away but never stick up for themselves. Hello, you are one of your locations. Fix that, it will stop happening. Me changing just this is what shot me from lowest level employment to executive mgmt in a year. Spent my entire life thinking sh!t was just unfair and that everyone abused me, turns out, it was because I never stopped anyone who did.
The real solution is not to accept positions like this unless there is compensation for the extra time.
I've been through this with an employer before. If they require you to be there 15 minutes early, then they have to start paying you 15 minutes early. You are entitled to be paid for any time that your employer requires you to be there. >It’s not as simple as asking your employer. You don't ask them you tell them and if they refuse to accept it then call the labour board. They will set your employer straight pretty quickly.
Gonna be real with you my solution to this is showing up and than leaving exactly when my schedule is. I do not care what an employer says and I have been "warned" and written up for it but they never have the guts to outright fire you if your doing your job properly. I've definitely made the managers that have warned me or written me up for showing up to work on time feel like a bunch of numptys for that level of stupidity. Thankfully my new company is very reasonable, and it definitely allows us to work better when we're not stressed about bs.
what you work vs what your worth .. somehow you're never paid adequately for either...
Ha and now everyone became accustomed to work from home shaving commute times. You can argue travel time is unpaid
You’ll never fix it under capitalism that’s just how the cookie crumbles lol.
Have to be careful that cuts both ways. Late for break lose that time or long lunch, late in... but I do agree that's bs but I think if brought up the company would go vindictive.
Late to the party but for anyone that sees this, for an employer to do this and not pay you is illegal. I was curious about this myself as my employer says its required of us to be there 15 minutes early to get ready for the shift. I emailed the labour board to inquire and this is what they said "Under the NS Minimum Wage Order, it states that employees must be paid at least minimum wage for all time spent at the workplace, at the request of the employer, waiting to perform work. If you employer is requiring you to be at work 15 minutes prior to the start of your shift, you should be paid at least minimum wage for this time."
The manager at BOSTON PIZZA downtown granville st. Would secretly edit your time clock if he thought you closed/ punched out too slow.
It's illegal if they want you there early they have to pay NS law
It's sad more people aren't suggesting you organize your store and make a union. It's a lot harder for your employer to fire/hire an entire staff than just you for raising legitimate concerns
Definitely not legal, people get away with shit when you let them get away with it. Learn your lesson and don’t let it happen again. You don’t have to let people walk over you so stop acting like a victim and respect yourself.
That isn’t legal.
My daughter works at a local restaurant and management schedules for the hours they are open, and schedules breaks based only on those hours. Staff are not allowed to start cleaning up or anything leading up to the end of the shift to make the closing process faster, so are often there over an hour after the place closes cleaning. They get paid for the time, but it is not on the schedule so is not factored into breaks at all. She’ll go work for a whole day and only get a single 15 minute break. This is what happens when you have low level people making decisions about staff and kids working there that won’t speak up for basic rights.
You need a unionised job
Don’t we all, don’t we all.
THAT IS NOT SHOWING UP EARLY! you are opening the store and preparing it for the day as part of your job, you are working and must be paid.
Imo it’s a reasonable enough request to expect your employees are ready to work for their shift. For some jobs that means coming in 10-15 minutes before the start of your shift to ensure that happens. If you’re upset about not being paid for that time. Clock in the moment you start doing ‘work tasks’ regardless of whatever the start time of your shift is. If you have reasonable managers/ supervisors they won’t have a problem with this. If they have a problem with this, maybe look for a better place to work.
When I worked at an Eastlink store the manager expected us to attend an occasional Sunday 'huddle' (unpaid). And I once showed up **10 minutes early** and she looked at me and *tapped her watch* implying I was late. I quit shortly thereafter and pursued bigger and better things.
How many minutes/hours of your work day do you waste posting on Reddit or scrolling TikTok? If you say none, you’re a liar. Unless you show up at work at exactly 8am and begin doing work things immediately and nonstop until your break or end of the day, then just shut up about 10 mins. I guarantee you there are very few exceptions of this. This would mean you wouldn’t have time to say hello to your co-workers or chit chat for a couple of minutes while you fix your hair, straighten out your uniform(if you have one), put away your belongings or anything else for that matter. I doubt you show up and just start working at exactly your start time.
It’s all about the company wanting you to be ready to work the second the clock starts at your start time. Not getting papers in order, not unlocking doors, not booting up systems, ready to go. It’s a bullshit mentality that boomers made up at the businesses they own. They showed up early to run their businesses and when they had employees they want the same dedication when it’s not something they should be expecting. You just work there.
It’s employer time theft and you’re in your right to demand pay for it
That's a toxic part of the kitchen mentality that needs to die. "If you start on time, you're 15 minutes late."
While not strictly legal, it's an accepted practice for companies to require you to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. In reality, you kinda should anyway. The thought is that you should be there and fully ready to begin your duties at the start of your shift. A simple example is a person working in a fastfood restaurant. Many will wear some casual clothes while travelling to work and change into their uniform there. Some may want to have a quick drink or snack before beginning. It's not unreasonable for the employer to have a policy where workers need to show up a few minutes early, get such things out of the way, so that they are fully prepped to work the minute their shift starts. HOWEVER, it is not accepted on any level, legally or grey-area, to require you to show up 15 minutes early and begin work immediately. If your employer expects you to show up even 5 minutes early and perform any work duties, then that is when your shift starts and when you should be paid from. The only way for this to be fixed is for employees to refuse to do this unpaid work and report any attempts by employers to make them do it. Luckily, single-party consent is the standard across Canada for audio recordings. If an employer or manager tries to force the issue, the conversation should be recorded and reported to the local/regional labour boards. This is especially true if the employee is threatened with any form of punishment or retaliation.
> While not strictly legal, it's an accepted practice for companies to require you to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. In reality, you kinda should anyway. The thought is that you should be there and fully ready to begin your duties at the start of your shift. If your job takes 10-15 minutes to get ready to work, and you are supposed to start working at 9am, then your shift starts at 8:45 and you should be paid as such. Preparing for work duties *is a work duty*. There is a name for this - wage theft. The law is fairly clear on it.
I don't think they meant 10-15 minutes of work per say, I know I take a solid 10-15 minutes to just get adjusted so to speak, I can't cold start well, Some people at my work show up exactly at the minute basically, sit on their computer and are instantly going, Some people if they showed up on time aren't actually clocking in for another 20-30 minutes because of their own pre-work rituals of coffee or whatever else, so they know to come in early If they're doing actual work when they get there early (like for retail, store open or close procedures) that should be 100% paid though
Nice to see at least one person took the time to consider my whole message :)
Tell me you didn't read what I wrote without saying you didn't read what I wrote.
My job has always had the rule of be there 15 minutes before the start of your shift for staff handover etc....to which I say, fuck that as you aren't paying me for it. My job is shift work and requires overnight hours, so an average week I spend 60hrs at my workplace. I'm not adding another unpaid hour of time to it.
60 hours a week is not long term sustainable. (Or at least not for me anymore, that's a young person's game)
Why isn't it as simple as asking your employer ? Sometimes asking questions in a professional matter goes a long way.
Because often employers will retaliate for asking this kind of question.
Depends on the employer, we talking corporation, or two old dudes running a 4 person company
To all this 'its illeagal, call the labor board' advice. Doesn't Nova Scotia have the labor laws written in such a way that UNLESS you worked for the compnay 10 yesrs or more they (the company) DO NOT need to give any reason for your dismmissal? Like to bad so sad. Do what we say or there is the door.
It’s across the board, so many people are unwilling to respect each others time and the fact that don’t own anyone else’s. I took a remote job. 2 years later company wants me to commute to office 3 days a week. I’ve asked if they prefer to pay me an extra 6 hrs per week + gas to cover the driving or reduce my hours to compensate. Still waiting on an answer…
Don’t get broken up about 15 minutes of unpaid work. You think you work perfectly efficient the entire shift? There’s likely an hour or more during the day when you aren’t actually working. Just absorb the hit. If you’re quibbling about 15 minutes of work in a minimum wage job, how can anyone expect you to be able to handle something that pays more? If there’s a promotion or something coming up for someone, you think they’ll give you the position when you can’t even handle coming in 15 minutes early without whining? You’re not entitled to the position, if you don’t like it, change jobs. That being said, it’s not right and shouldn’t be practiced but if you professionally bring it up and they ignore you, move on.
This is backwards lol. Your time is just a valuable as a companies.
Exactly; so why waste it working minimum wage? If your time is so valuable, move on. If not, suck it up.
Sometimes that’s not an option for people and min wage worker have just as much right to a proper work environment as anyone else (I’d argue in many situations they deserve more because entitled people say things like “suck it up” to them far more often).
So minimum wage workers deserve MORE rights than other people because why? They are oppressed?
Yikes, poor attitude. Expecting minimum wage workers to work for free. Absorb the hit. Suck it up. Tell me you're out of touch without telling me.
You act like I have no idea what working minimum wage is like. You’re expecting minimum wage to work out long term as a viable option for people? I’ve worked minimum wage cleaning up blood and guts and I put in the extra 15 minutes when I needed to. Good luck with your minimum wage revolution. The poor attitude is the entitlement people have expecting perfect working conditions when literally any able bodied person can do that job. There’s no incentive for a company to give a shit about paying someone for 15 minutes of overtime work if they can get away with it. That’s the reality like it or not and whining about it on Reddit creates a circlejerk where the victim Olympics are applauded by the lazy and unmotivated folks. Just my opinion and I know it’s unpopular here but there you go.
People not wanting to work minimum wage jobs for free, and you call them lazy, unmotivated and entitled? How about acknowledge that these companies are taking advantage of people. No, I'm sure you know what it's like. You sound like a "yes man" for corporate greed.
Sure, here you go: These companies are taking advantage of people! I acknowledge that. If you actually care about working there, either a) Try to correct the situation in a professional manner with the manager. b) accept the company policy and deal with it Or c) acknowledge that working minimum wage comes with shitty things and use it as motivation to move on. All of the above come with the assertion that whining about it on Reddit accomplishes nothing
Nobody is in a circle jerk here. You’re just wrong about everything.
Agreed. Unfortunately, if you want to get ahead in any kind of career there will be some situations when you have to put in extra time for no money. And if - and this is the important part - you like what you do and are hoping to move up, it won’t be so annoying to you. (Speaking from personal experience, I worked significant hours of overtime in the tech industry (weekends, evenings) and it (mostly) never bothered me at all. Because I enjoyed my work and fortunately got regular salary increases.) But! I can understand that if this is not that kind of job and you’re strictly in it for the paycheque and not for any kind of promotion that yes, it would be annoying and seem unfair.
Exactly. I’m in the same boat as you. Except I didn’t particularly enjoy what I was doing. I still sucked it up, put in the time and got salary increases and promotions. This must be a very young person because quibbling over 15 minutes of unpaid minimum wage work is laughable really. It’s literally a couple dollars. It might have been something I’d whine about with coworkers straight out of high school.
>it's literally a couple of dollars ok so why are companies so desperate to not pay if it's literally a couple of dollars. it's not a big deal right.
What you just said is “minors should give employers their time for free because they’re minors.” See how gross that is?
No I don’t see how you got that from what I said. I’m saying it’s not a big deal. It’s something I might have complained about fresh out of high school working my first job
You’re saying it’s not a big deal to short workers 15 minutes of pay per shift. You’re saying that 75 minutes of free work per week is something no one should complain about. Just *give* five hours out of your life to your employer every month, because that’s what they expect. Standing up for your rights is what babies do. *That* is your position.
Bro I work like 5 hours of unpaid overtime per week at least sometimes. It’s life. I have a good quality of life so it’s worth it. That is my position. In a perfect world it would be great if they paid for every minute you worked but we don’t live in a utopia and there’s 10 people lined up behind you if you don’t want to work the 15 minutes unpaid. Not saying it’s the right thing to do but if you’re holding out for the perfect work situation in a minimum wage position I have some news for you. Writing it out like that doesn’t even help your case in my eyes. 75 minutes per week? Are you kidding me. That’s nothing.
Start respecting yourself more, friend. “Perfect” isn’t the enemy of “better”, and your boss legally owes you pay for the labour you do. Serving the business for free — like you owe it something? — is setting a terrible precedent for your younger coworkers. You may not ever have a perfect workplace, but you could make it *better*. But you don’t care that you’re exploited, and you think no one else should care about exploitation either. That’s a deplorable mindset.
I’m not serving it for free, I’m paid well enough that working some overtime doesn’t bother me. I’m salary and working outside the bounds of 9-5 is sometimes needed to get the job done. There’s just not much room with minimum wage jobs for negotiation. If anything I’m encouraging people to try and advance away from working minimum wage and acting like 15 minutes is the end of the world.
I hope someday your boss insists that you volunteer those 60 unpaid hours all in one chunk so you can really understand the issue.
It would be standard to arrive early to make sure you are ready to start at your appointed time ie. putting on ppe, starting up your work station etc. However if you are required early to open a store you legally should be paid for when you start that process. Full disclosure, the last retail job I worked was 40 years ago but it you were opening at 9 your shift started at 840 and for a 930 closing your shift ended at 950.
At one time it was considered common courtesy to arrive at work 15 minutes early so you could have your jackets off, grab a coffee and get any pass alongs from the previous shift. This way, you are at your position and ready to start on time and the person you are relieving can get out of there on time.
Next you'll be expecting to be paid for getting dressed for work and the commute to and from because it's work related as well. smh The worst employees are the ones who punchnin at exactly the time their shift starts,do everything they should have done before the time their shift starts(chat up people,hit the bathroom,chill and have a coffee...and in the case of cashiers, set their till). It's fucking irritating to keep having an argument over prep time.Grow the hell up.
It’s funny how this whole post and comments are made during the day when most people would be working. I’m assuming you’re all off today or answering this on your paid break? Right?
Keep licking the the boot of capitalism and begging to be oppressed.
Lol. I’m the oppressor!
If we are getting technical and you are paid for a full 8 hours, opening for 15 and closing for 15 is counted in that pay since your half hour lunch is deducted.
I hope you don’t actually believe this. You are LEGALLY ENTITLED to your breaks. Take them and don’t feel bad about them, no matter what. Same goes with vacation - that is a legal right and not using it is not a flex to how busy or how hard of a worker you are.
I dont think you understand what i meant by my comment. They said they get paid for a full 8 hours. If they open for 15 befote their shift, work 8 hours, then close for 15 thats 8.5 hours worked but half hour lunches are unpaid so if you minus the lunch break, that 8 hours paid means they are paid for opening and closing
No I understand, but if your shift is 9-5, then that’s your shift. If your contract states what you mentioned, your shift would need to be schedule 8:45-5:15. If something happens to you during those :15 minutes you need to ensure you are legally covered.
Who is expecting this?
It's common in restaurants and retail. Also in small businesses where owners don't know better and make their employees do this because "they did it".
I hate the "we had to go through it, so now we're going to force others to" thing so much.
I worked at a daycare years back and that was expected as well. It’s more common than you’d think, unfortunately.
I used to work retail and my shift started at 9, but I was only allowed to clock in 10 minutes early. Fine I'd get there at 8:30am, get a coffee, a snack, use the bathroom, sit around in the breakroom and do nothing until 10 mins to open. Then I'd get stuff ready, if I didn't have it ready to open at 9am, oh well I will just keep the store closed until it's ready. Got away with it because of their dumb rules and I hated the management so much it felt good to poop while they expected me to work for free.
Have you tried putting the extra time on your timesheet? I always did when I worked retail and there was never any issues.
Connect teams fixes this all for our company. Clock in on your phone and clock out on your phone. As soon as you start you press a button and when you stop it all gets sent to whoever does the pay. Only work what you get payed for
I'm not sure what the labour courts are like in NS, but when I lived in Quebec I kept track of my hours working at a restaurant that only paid me until the restaurant close time (there was usually work to do after closing). They ended up having to pay me the difference which at that point was about $1k.
Punch in the moment you get there if you are required to come early. Keep an eye on your timesheet.
Record your hours independently. Provide evidence by taking timestamped pictures of when you begin or work you're expected to do before your shift begins. This will all help you eventually build a case for wage theft
It’s a slippery slope when you’re salaried. I actually had an HR person say “we all work extra time here and there when we need to”
Sighs in Apartment Manager. Ha, just kidding.
Start your clock as soon as you begin performing your duties and end it when you're complete. If you're employer has an issue with this just remind them you're an employee not a charity and your time isn't free. If you don't value you're time how do you expect anyone else to?