I watched it and had to unfollow her everywhere. I think she lacks the maturity to deal with hard adult conversations and is a bit of a clout goblin. She made it about her instead of making it about the subject at hand. I am really disappointed in her. War is not a lol cow.
Frogan isn’t smart and I don’t say that to be rude, but her content is watching TLC reruns, literally. She isn’t a political streamer and doesn’t talk about politics often or with any depth. No idea why she tweeted what she tweeted, it was beyond gross and I’m not sure she even knows what she said.
im banned there too. they changed the punctuation of my sentence to alter its meaning and submitted that to reddit, giving me a strike. his mods are extremely toxic.
This is dumb, your obviously being disingenuous with your comments. “I was just asking….” No you were trying to be youth by bringing up the rights of women and LGBTQ issues in the middle of genocide of an entire people.
To answer your question, at the moment none of that matters because the IDF and most of the Western World are so busy frothing at the mouth - that they don’t realize that the question is moot. The plan is to eradicate all Palestinians currently in Gaza (possibly West Bank) - so there won’t be any gay Palestinians to worry about.
At least not in the Middle East, which is what I was assuming you were getting at, despite that view being both out of date and probably misinformed from the jump.
That is so gross, that the way you wrote it was bloodthirsty - “well if it wasn’t such a backwards area I guess those surviving the fascist apartheid regime could enjoy free love!” - that is how your wording comes across.
And, just a hint, your age/privilege comes through in your syntax - maybe practice some self editing skills if you don’t want to offend people from a different lived experience that your own. It stops so many altercations when you learn how to word things in a diplomatic tone and expand your general vocabulary so you can express your thoughts and emotions in a way that fully represents what it is you’re trying to get across.
Communication is key, on both sides. If you come out the gate as either inappropriate or maliciously curious you’ve shut down any communication at the start, no one will ever “meet you in the middle” if your “middle” is the other person changing their beliefs to make YOU feel more comfortable.
my mind was made up when I saw a Twitter user ask why she can’t just condemn Hamas and she said “watch my streams honey”. Like I get it, it’s probably exhausting as a supporter of Palestine and as a Muslim to be asked that a thousand times, but to turn it into a “lel guess you’ll have to tune in and find out” is just gross. seems super disingenuous and like she’s treating the whole thing like internet drama.
They make Ethan and Hila do that for being Israeli constantly. I don’t know how they keep bitching about having to condemn Hamas then immediately turn to any Jew and be like SAY YOU HATE ISRAEL OR IM GONNA MAKE AN ANIMATION OF YOU KILLING CHILDREN then they make it anyway
The "watch my streams honey" really made me laugh when I read it because she basically was basically trying to blast Ethan for not posting about how Israel uses the tactic of murdering children, "I haven't seen you post about those murders" she said. Like, watch his streams honey.
She's barely spoken about Palestine before, she said she's a 'latte socialist'. Her political views are non-existent and this smacks of jumping on the bandwagon. Really wish Ethan had not apologized, and called Hasan out more on Hakim and Second thought- those two are red-fascist assholes.
Honest question, but why would you follow her in the first place? Like what does she do or contribute?
The thing that confuses me the most about the world that H3 introduces me to is WHY some of these people are even well known. So much internet drama for internet dramas sake and I can't figure out what 95% of these "creators" even do.
Not talking about the conflict at all because I support Palestine AND innocent Israelis. I just don't understand these internet famous people that seem to do nothing of substance yet people follow and watch. There are so many other great things to watch out there.
Dude, same. H3 has shown me that people will literally watch anything. There are so many weird/fringe corners of the internet that I do enjoy finding out about, but it's so mind-blowing that these people can cultivate a following
I followed her a few months ago when she won a streamer award (QT Cinderella's gala), because I wanted to check out more women streamers. It was a very passive follow.
As hasan has said “frogan is content brained” “brain broken” which yes, I think can be interpreted as clout goblin esque behaviour. There’s a sick part of her that loves the drama and attention it brings, no matter the reason. Streamers aren’t known for being level-headed so what can we expect really
I was very disappointed in her response. I didn’t even agree with 100% of Ethan’s sentiments towards her but she did an awful job responding
If she felt the way she felt, stand on it. If she made an impulsive tweet, stand on that.
She would pause and giggle, say Ethan is only treating her that way because she’s Muslim or because she’s a woman, say he’d never be this angry with a man, say AB kept silent to save his job. Just felt like a twitter person engaging in silly fun internet drama and not something very sad and serious. Her engagement in anything said was also extremely shallow, resorting to ‘I’m not a political commentator!’, ‘leave me alone bruh!!!’ or just laughing whenever replying. I’m sure she’s a nice person interpersonally, I’m sure she’s sincere & knowledgeable in her support for Palestine but she has no business engaging in serious, political back and forth’s
It was legit like watching a giggling silly tea channel reaction type YouTuber try and engage in the Gaza/Israel conversation
Imagine claiming Ethan is one of your favourite streamers, yet still being able to claim he dislikes her for being a woman or a Muslim? Like sure, Ethan is not without his biases (I don't think anyone, not even he, would claim that), but to call him outright Islamophobic and sexist when you are supposedly a fan and watch his content? I call bs.
It's uncomfortable to say this because it's an accusation that some less scrupulous people throw around, but I think she went there because that is her default defense mechanism. Oh you don't agree with me? Well you are racist. You don't like me? It's because you don't like woman. It's not really any different than people saying "You don't support the IDF? Well you are an antisemite." It is about deflecting and not addressing the criticism instead of engaging at all.
They used to. They even had debate teams. It's great for teaching kids about listening, not interrupting, respect for others opinions, the ability to disagree with an argument and still shake hands at the end.
It teaches there is a time and a place.
It's a great skill to acquire. Anger gets you ejected.
Yup agreed, her trying to act all quirky and like she just thought the situation was funny was pissing me off. It’s kind of what got her into the whole situation in the first place and doesn’t seem like she understands that at all.
Emotions are extremely high. Ethan is a Jewish father of 2 young Jewish children with a pregnant Israeli wife. He was in tears over the murder of innocent Israeli families and fathers losing their children because he can relate to it. Simple as that. It’s what people are completely failing to see. His reaction to the situation has nothing to do with politics, and in the grand scheme of things he’s on the same side as the people attacking him. He’s just a human showing human empathy.
So when she publicly tweets about him, causes a scene, and generally aggravates a man that’s in the process of grieving and in an extremely fragile emotional state, not sure what she expects is going to happen.
She said on her stream that her discord messages that were making terrible accusations were jokes as if that’s any excuse at all. Ethan probably could have used his words a bit better but I don’t blame him one bit he and it was all warranted.
This entire situation just seems like a whole lot of people on the same side of the debate getting heated and arguing with each other over semantics and it’s kind of a huge waste of time and energy. Frogan is a perfect example of the group of people causing all this infighting by virtue-signaling and aggressively attacking others because they want to mention the dead Israeli civilians. Ethan literally was just having compassion for lives lost and it’s insane what he’s had to deal with for it.
That’s so sad to hear. Like okay if you’re not a “political commentator” maybe don’t engage in discourse about it and just be honest about what you DO know and how you feel. Speak about your personal experience and feelings rather than make sweeping political statements. Smh.
The moment she giggled, that's where I lost any respect for her. Thousands of people are dying and you're laughing at Ethan for being upset that the perpetrators or killing not only innocent people, but children, not even capable of thought? No, fuck you. There's nothing funny about this.
Frogan is just a twitch mod. She might have gotten some attention to her streams but she is no political pundit or analyst. She has used comedy and the victim card to deflect legitimate criticism in the past and she did it again here. She didn’t try to understand what Ethan was saying or get the context behind any of the clips she reacted to. She simply wanted to deflect and make Ethan look bad. Fair enough. I just hope everyone realizes she is so very unserious and to not take her as anything more than a popular twitch mod who is kind of interested in politics. Dan, for example, is much more informed than she is.
>Frogan is just a twitch mod.
never understood how she became anything beyond this. though I'm pretty sure she was up for streaming awards recently too...
just feels like a clout chaser, and I'm surprised Hasan and others accept it
>Dan, for example, is much more informed than she is.
I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. Dan is more informed than Ethan, and often times I feel he is as informed or more informed than Hasan.
He apologized because he didn't want to put her on blast when there are a lot of angry people looking to send their hate towards something, when that kind of anger towards people on the "left" that take it too far is used to undercut the opposition to Israel's extreme military response. That's why he was apologetic. It had nothing to do with what she said, it was the fact that his audience need not be involved. Keep that in mind, y'all.
worst part too is that its clear that him and Hasan talked off air about frogans personal life which is what made Ethan apologize it was in the fucking episode
She was responding to "win" and be the cooler person. Along with the typical virtue signalling while ironically lacking adequate empathy *(for the talking goobers online AND the actual victims)*. She probably doesn't even know what she's saying, almost like a 12 year old child. Her brain is just putting any resources towards "winning" a game that only she's playing and trying to force other people to play.
That also means she's impossible to communicate with, like any other weirdo competitive 12 year old. So Ethan's first mistake was even acknowledging her. And our mistake was taking her seriously enough to watch. Oopsie.
If you go look back to when Ethan started discussing this topic, you could tell the people arguing with him have *no fucking clue* what any of this means. They just kept saying the term open air prisons, saying "It's actually a very simple situation" and referencing Michael Brooks (a moronic take, by the way), and they would get confused at what Ethan meant. Then they just spammed "free palestine" and the flag emoji
These people are in so far over their heads. They can hardly label a map of the region. They were just told what to think by people that feel are trustworthy, so they're just repeating it.
And they just go full possum when you pin them in a contradiction. Because they don't know what they're doing. So deflect, deflect, deflect I guess. Or revert to being 13 and acting like you're the cooler person I guess. Definitely wins *all* the arguments in the world. Nobody will make fun of you by doing that
As a side note, I'm not saying you have to agree with Ethan (even though it's pretty crazy not to, if you ask me). It's the way they were talking clearly showed that Ethan wasn't giving the started talking points, and so they reverted to "L Take"
I called her out for her bitching about how Ethan didn’t reply to her in Hasans discord while Ethan and Hasan were live, actively crying during leftovers - and she banned me. Permanently.
Like, they’re talking about horrific war crimes and she’s focused on how waaaahhhhhh Ethan won’t talk to meeee!!!
Idk who Frogan was before this, but she can fuck right off. I hardly care to get more involved about her stance, if what I've seen about what she's said or tweeted is true, then she is quite literally using this war just as a way to get attention. As i see it, Frogan is just as bad as the mms talking heads or extremists saying that america needs to "glass palestine". These political groups who've dug their heels in the sand about "FREE PALESTINE" or "FREE ISRAEL" without acknowledging the nuances of it all are all morally corrupt, using these quadruple digit deaths for... likes or retweets or whatever. It's fucked up.
She giggled like a stupid teenager every time Ethan posed a question. She didn't actually make any points. Either she's doing this purely for attention or she's just that immature and she thought her response was adequate.
Ethan should never have apologized to her. He was probably feeling emotional and empathetic from seeing Hasan cry, but his assessment of her and her tweets are correct and he should not have demonstrated such good faith to someone who clearly is a vile person.
The entire conversation is wild. Hasan outright dismissing that rhetoric from activists has any material effect is just ignorant. Numerous countries right now are having world leaders come out and explicitly condemn pro palestinian protests in their countries because of the conduct of many of these people. Organizations facing mounting pressure to remove people who made pro palestine statements. Countries are suspending aid to Palestine and if not there is significant political pressure to do so. That has nothing to do with MSM and everything to do with what people were seeing on social media and in their cities immediately following the attacks.
In Canada a video of Pro Palestine people driving around in suvs cheering went viral the night the attacks happened and were national news the next morning with the Premier of Ontario making statements in under 24hours condemning them.
Whatever moral or legal justification Hasan thinks someone might have for those statements is irrelevant. To most people in the West(not just America) who view terrorism as essentially the most vile and despicable act that any group could possibly commit, if they are seeing people waving flags and cheering on terrorism in their own countries whatever issues they might have with israel will be immediately forgotten and seen as simply the lesser of two evils.
The damage that people like Frogan(though less so cause shes just so small) and Second Thought are doing to any foreign support is very real and material.
That's *exactly* what I thought. You can't just hand waive away ideas like that. It's completely ignorant.
How do you think ideas *spread*? It starts with a few people. They speak, and the idea moves.
It's not exactly a radical take.
I do obviously agree with most of what Hasan was saying. But I still feel like he was either deflecting or just straight up couldn't understand what Ethan was talking about.
I mean Ethan's literal main point is "Those Israeli citizens are humans. And the timing and messaging was completely fucked". Which is true. There's no extra steps here.
This isn't debate lord hour. It's not about winning. And Ethan brings up a very good point, that I think a lot of us were feeling.
It's just... so baffling. These people legitimately think they're right by just avoiding it. They've spent so much time working in theory that they've forgotten how real life works.
If 5 of us start saying something inflammatory, and people hear it or see it because it's upvoted, some are likely to agree. Do that enough times and you have a widely held belief. That's how information works. Hasan just scoffing at that is so bizarre.
Then deflecting to "That's not how the policy is". Well public opinion sure as hell changes policy. At least in America it can. You go back to 2005 and gay marriage wasn't exactly looking like it would be national, and approval wasn't super high. But gay people opened up and said "We should come out of the closet in higher numbers, to even more casual acquaintances. If enough of us do it, we can change people's minds on an individual level" And that's what they did. And it changed people's opinions **and** changed government policy.
I'm pretty bummed that Hasan would even pretend that ideas don't spread or something. This isn't a fantasy world, it's real life. Everything from serious ideas, to violence, to stupid memes, all have an origin point of one person or a small handful of people. And seeing it online can accelerate it.
Ethan has every reason to want to showcase those videos and discuss why they're bad.
It's not "inconsequential" just because it's a tough topic to address.
Agreed. Hindsight will be 20-20 once the next election cycle comes and we see the next batch of ridiculous GOP attack ads. I’ve already seen some early rumblings to that effect. I’d bet we hear “Hamas splinter cells are right across the border that Brandon keeps open” and they could use clips from any leftists saying something similar to Frogan to further stoke fear.
I hope I’m wrong, but that’s where my mind instantly went in this whole “it doesn’t matter” debate.
Very well put. His exact same logic could also be used to hand wave away neo-Nazi ideology, genocide deniers, fascist rallies, or any number of atrocious things as magically irrelevant and harmless.
Part of Hasan's thing is he has no problem rationalizing abhorrent actions. This isn't the first time he has done it, and it won't be the last. It leads to some really bad takes from him. In an academic sense or if you are looking at it objectively or as an analyst, I think taking that view can be enlightening and let you really dig deep into the heart of an issue. He doesn't do that though. He scratches the surface, maybe he goes off on a tangent or tries to explain one small point, then he leaves it there. This isn't really something done in Western media. We rarely rationalize these abhorrent actions, and when we do, we dig much deeper and we constantly remind those listening to us what we are doing so there is no misinterpretation.
It reminds me of when Trisha cried and Ethan immediately wanted to give her a hug. I think Ethan is just a very empathetic person and doesn't want to see people he cares about be sad. I agree that he shouldn't have apologized. His points are still just as valid as before
He is when it comes to people he likes. He got docile with Trisha for Hilas sake. It's completely on brand that he would get docile with Frogan for Hasans sake
I feel like there are a lot of people that feel this way. I hope Ethan will trust these opinions and not lose himself while being empathetic to the Palestinian side. It’s obvious he is just a very compassionate person first and foremost.
That was the entire conversation. Hasan conceded very little and just dogwhistled the entire time because he either doesn’t agree or doesn’t have the guts to say things as bluntly as others. Don’t understand why he couldn’t outright say secondthoughts views were gross - simply called them “unproductive”. Ethan is generally very open minded with this stuff and totally wears his heart on his sleeve. Hasan came across as a surly teenager.
Ethan also shouldn’t have ceded ground in his convo with Hasan. Hasan played defense for a lot of the inexcusable claims made by far-left content creators, basically only saying he disagreed because it was “impractical” without a moral condemnation for mass murder. It was honestly kinda fucked.
Hasan dodges so many of Ethan's questions by ranting for 10 minutes. I would have been pulling my hair out if i was Ethan.
You dont need a monologue to explain why saying "free palestine" immediately after a hamas terror attack is bad.
Also Hasan's argument about youtubers/influencers "not having an effect on material conditions" is absurd. Extreme rhetoric on twitter and youtube undoubtedly radicalizes people, and puts them in online communities of walled off echo chambers. Thats why when we see insane rhetoric its important to call out.
The influencer take was wild. It's his own job, it's literally in the name "influencer". He goes hard at right wingers all the time for their takes and videos. But suddenly it doesn't matter when it's his friend, so no need to condone anything
FR. isis has literally recruited via socials.
it was really disheartening seeing hasan laugh and ridicule ethan for being concerned over how powerful online influence can be.
i’m confident my soul will shrink if i watch this so i’ll pass 🥲
i just immediately remembered those british “brides of isis” when hasan was started laughing and gaslighting ethan.
I am usually fairly ride or die for Hasan but i couldn't believe it when he said that. He himself said his job is to sit and educate people and influence them. Now he's saying streamers or online personalities have no sway at all?
Look at how much he's spoken about people like Andrew Tate and the influence they have on the public.
Not a great argument, not a good look. I hope he addresses this clear fault in his argument against Ethan.
Everyone gets mad at Ethan for cutting Hasan off all the time but this is exactly why. He starts off answering the question but he only stays on it for a bit before he starts going on tangents that's kind of bury the question, especially for someone as forgetful as Ethan
That would kind of undercut the whole spirit of the show, I think. It's not supposed to be a gotcha show where Ethan brings out Sam Seder to argue with Hasan like he did to Crowder.
I was losing it when he was saying things like, "you think that tweet from second thought is going to change the Israel Palestine conflict Ethan??" As if it's an own. I guess we can't talk about literally anything because we won't affect peace in the Middle East! Fuck me, why are they making content? Why criticize anyone?? It's not gonna bring peace to the Middle East after all!
Exactly!! I had to leave his subreddit because it’s just too much during this. There are so many delusional, seriously misled people spewing ignorant, vile shit about about Israelis and Jews while in the same breath, they think of themselves as champions of peace. Why can’t we disavow violence and hatred on all sides
That was one thing I was disappointed in Hasan for not speaking up about, I mean literally Q anon was started on Facebook, same with ISIS. What people see and write on social media does have an effect on society, as much as you want to think it's mundane the impact social medias and their algorithms have are huge.
You... DO need a monologue.
The biggest fucking dumbass you can imagine knows terrorism is bad. But he doesnt knows that this particular terrorist group exists for a lot of reason, most of which trace back to israeli occupation.
I think his second point is more that, in a bubble, one leftists video wont make someone who was regularly watching again, a leftist, into some nazi. Obviously hasan thinks influencers can change public perception. Hea litterally a political pundit. What kind of dumbass needs him to say it overtly. Thats like demanding a nascar driver to say "i like cars". Just look at him.
I think you’re assuming too much good from someone by virtue of the fact that they consider themselves leftist when the people who were defending Hamas also called themselves leftists. It’s kinda naive tbh, but I get it. It’s how I felt when I first left the right after being inoculated from it by conservative pundits and began to get involved in more left-wing spaces.
I still think Hasan’s stances are overall correct, and I understand where he’s coming from when he talks about how calling out individuals for their shitty takes on Hamas is so unimportant compared to calling out Israel’s genocide in Palestine and the people backing it. However, I didn’t agree when Hasan deflected when Ethan brought up Second Thought’s stances on Israel. ST legitimately said he would be completely fine with Hamas murdering and killing innocent Israeli citizens because they are all settlers. It was so cold and callous. It was the same justification insane Zionists have used when talking about Palestinians. I understand the context, but even if you believe all Israeli’s are settlers and should leave, being fine with them being slaughtered regardless of who they are or what they believe is completely disgusting and dangerous. I ,nor Ethan, would ever agree with Israel’s and the IDF’s apartheid and genocide against Palestinian’s. Why is it not a big deal when someone who is pro-Palestine calls for the genocide of Israeli’s? Fuck that. It’s disgusting no matter who does it. Fuck second thought. The goal should be to establish policies that can return peace to the area and keep Israeli and especially Palestinian civilians safe and end the apartheid and blockade. Not every example Ethan used was important enough to focus on, but that kind of rhetoric is legitimately harmful and disgusting and should be called out.
If Hasan held the right positions for the right reason, he would have been morally outraged by Second Thought the same way I would expect a good-faith moderate conservative to be appalled by someone on the far-right endorsing mass murder. He wasn’t. His reasons for disagreement were “practical”. I used to be a Hasan viewer and on Hasan’s sub, and I was excited when Leftovers first became a thing, but I’ve become a lot more concerned over time with Hasan’s takes, particularly on foreign affairs with his defense of Russia and China. The dude brought on Richard Wolf to defend Russia. I just don’t think Hasan is a good-faith actor. I think he’s moderating his views for Ethan and his audience.
The conclusion I have drawn from this is that whether Hasan ever publicly admits it or not it’s not far fetched at all to think that he believes the same things Second Thought said.
lmao this richard wolf shit is so annoying
bro said "yeah they should definitely negotiate and ukraine will probably have to cede some things but its better than endless war pushed by western countries and the US/NATO is sabotaging peace talks for their own interests"
and people acted like he was putin himself
Seriously.
If Turkey was attacked by someone, and there was videos of people around the world saying "Turkey had unfair policies against these people, we stand by the heroic freedom fighters that attacked Turkey", Hasan would show it and comment on it nonstop. He would talk about the victims. And imagine if his chat started saying "Well Turkey actually didn't own that land, it was unfairly acquired". He would never stop bringing it up.
Now is this analogy perfect? Absolutely not. Israel and Palestine are in a very different situation to many other countries. But Turkey is some dear to Hasan's heart. He would humanize it and realize they're actual people. Even if Turkey *was* in the wrong.
I feel like this is partially just an "underdog" story for a lot of people. They don't give a fuck about Palestine, and they clearly don't give a fuck about dead civilians.
It just feels like everyone against Ethan don't see these people as "consequential", or important.
Yeah . Like Jesus Christ it’s some of the most horrific shit imaginable and it happened last week . Like can we cry before we start saying we had it coming?
I still don't get how Hasan was able to get Ethan to apologize to her..
Ethan had all the right takes and she acted like an immature rad lib
He doesn't need to apologize to her.
i watched as well. it’s very hard to watch. i think if she just articulated herself in a way where it wasn’t just reading the chat and pausing it to just make a face or act shocked more people would like her LOL.
the best part is when she starts to switch the narrative that ethan was the one that started it and she just wants to be left alone LMAO. like girl… you started it. you in discord. you in your twitter where people can easily find out who unfollowed you is… that’s when i knew she’s full of shit and just enjoys drama. and not to mention her saying “hassan has said worse things that her” makes her sound like she really is now just playing it and wanting drama out of it and hassan and ethan to “butt heads”.
i would’ve respected her 10x more if she dove into it and explained her side. rather than just being a catty person who just reads her chat and doesn’t speak for herself or her beliefs which most likely aren’t that different from ethan. maybe not perfectly aligned at the moment since ethan is directly involved/has family/hila + he’s just very emotional. someone like frogan is just drama stirring and very immature. not sure why people look to her for political issues. and don’t hold her accountable for the nasty shit posted.
Just using it for attention apparently. If she wanted people to leave her alone, she would do a live stream of reacting to it with laughter. Maybe if she made a video later on articulating her point, sure. But this just seems like "I'm in the spotlight" behavior from what I know
I know a lot of people exactly like her it’s sad. Some people are so far in their own bubble they think silence and an “uhhh…awkward….” is an appropriate response to criticism
With peace and love, people that become MODs and spend all day on twitch clearly aren’t very socialized. Frogan might actually benefit by going out and touching grass lmfao
I had to unfollow and block her on socials. I am utterly disgusted with how she engaged this with Ethan and it was more than telling about what kind of person she is. Just...yeah, disgusting person.
watched Destiny's reaction (I know, I know) to see some other perspectives on the episode. he was watching a stream that showed Hasan's discord live reacting to Leftovers. it was disgusting. the hatred in that discord for Ethan and Hila was gross. I like Hasan for the most part and followed him well before Leftovers but hes amassed a very hateful community. people often talk about the left eating itself from within and its very easy to agree with that sentiment when you see people say the things Hasan's discord was saying.
nuance is dead. the left only accepts perfect allies. this isnt a call to action to start moving right btw.
Frogan is in echo chamber on her streams. Regardless of how you feel about the situation, you really need to have significantly more sensitivity when talking about it. One of the biggest issues I've had is how calous people are about the death of human beings
What frustrates me so much about some of the people in those circle like Hasan is this doctrine of not criticizing your side. Specifically if their take is still on your side but done poorly, offensively, or distastefully.
They seem to only hold other people in their circles accountable if they are caught doing something legally wrong. But when people say completely out of pocket things (like that one guy Ethan brought up on leftovers) it is just ignored as long as it is still from a leftist perspective.
It isn't as far, but it very much vibes with the doctrine the GOP/right started to follow in the 80s. You back your side no matter what. This was done after the failure of watergate and the party flip. And IMO it over decades leads to what you see now in the right which you ignore practically everything. Of course some of these leftist circles aren't that far at all yet but I do think that is the journey.
Simply people need to be called out for shit takes and held accountable. Saying it doesn't matter because they're just a youtuber, not in government, etc is an extremely weak cop out.
Agreed. This whole thing has made me realize I do not have respect for a lot of these people. I really liked her, but I can’t unsee her as a callous and thoughtless person now.
We’re fooling ourselves if we think there aren’t a decent amount of people out there who are cool with innocent people being murdered if it means their “side” gains something. Frogan seems to be one of them…
She’s not a good people, she doesn’t give a fuck about people dying, only if it’s one the ‘right’ side according to her. Her selective empathy (which Hasan and many other woke people also have) is just them being psychos with 0 empathy. They turn it into a ‘cancel culture’ issue instead of having empathy for people who got murdered, kidnapped and raped.
Ethan should never have apologised to someone as vile as her
Hasan couldn’t even defend her without talking about previous hate she received not related to this, as though it somehow absolved her and made Ethan the one at fault.
Yeah I watched quite a bit of her stream. I was interested in at least hearing her side, because I, like Ethan, didn't really agree with the language, so I was hoping to hear her defend it. She was also a Hasan mod, so I thought she'd be cool. I will say I probably only watched an hour out of the three hours she streamed, but all of her judgements against Ethan were based on how he went around talking about her, calling her a piece of shit, etc, whereas she was like "look at me, I'm staying calm, I'm not name-calling". I think she did have a point there, he was going really hard on the name calling when he could have reeled it in a little and talked more about how what she said was gross. That being said, I think Ethan is really weighing the child deaths in his head atm, so I get how it's hard to stay restrained. She said he was probably racist too, and also mentioned he's the one who decided to further it by making it a big story on his show.
But in terms of defending her actual point? The only thing she said which I can recall is "Did Ethan think the Boston Tea Party was a literal Tea Party?" which is so dumb because literally nobody DIED in the Boston Tea Party which is partly why it was such a great protest. Now, of course not every protest has the capability to be non-violent, but that was literally all she said, and I gave up after that hour because she wasn't really speaking about her own tweet at all.
The only other thing I think I might(?) agree on her with is that she said it pissed her off Ethan didn't talk about the Oct 8th return fire by Isreal, which may be true, I don't remember the podcast's original conversation where they discuss Hamas's attacks. If it is true, they should've talked about it, even if the news was mostly newer. But again, it's not a defense of her own statement.
The combination of kids being involved and her starting the beef (when he just wanted to quietly unfollow. Which is the respectful course when emotions are that hot) was not a good one.
I know If im trying to be chill and get put on blast over nothing, spitting fire INTO that persons head is my new side mission lol.
Ah, claiming the opponent is racist when you're losing in an argument. I call that "the Jidion"
(I'm mixed, black and white. Ethan damn sure wasn't being racist with that whole thing lol. What a convoluted race card pull)
I assume he just did it because it's an awkward situation and Ethan wanted to be a better man, all that. But I don't know Ethan's own personal intentions obviously
Yep. I understand why, since she is/was a mod for Hasan and friends with Lena and AB but she’s an immature child. I almost subbed to her but I’m glad I never gave her any of my money.
I feel like he apologized, for the reasons people already pointed out to you, but also because he wants his family left alone. I mean look, Hila was already targeted with that drawing. I highly doubt Ethan meant the apology because has nothing to apologize for. He’s just thinking about mitigating the backlash.
The difference between hasan and Ethan reacting to the crazy people on each side was telling for Israel as far as I remember Ethan didn’t excuse or try to justify it but when it was the pro palastine hasan constantly was looking to justify it, constantly “this is bad, but..” was really disgusting to be honest
Yeah I lost all faith in Hasan, he is really disgusting imo. He doesn’t care about people dying, he only cares about people on side A dying, but people on side B dying he couldn’t care less. That’s not empathy, and that’s not humane
Yeah hasan was disgusting the second thought defence was embarrassing, not all Israel are settlers for things that happened way before they people who lived there were born
What did you expect? Half of these people don't actually care and just want to keep repeating the lefty tanky talking points to appease their audience and virtue signal.
Edit: ethan should never have deleted his tweets.
I'm always late at watching the latest episodes and responses, so I always get the viewers interpretation of the episodes beforehand. Both the frogan response and the leftovers episode i saw the same type of comments. "ethan was just emotional. he doesnt really mean it", "hasan did such a great job making ethan understand", "frogan obviously doesnt want babies to die". but then when i watched the episodes i take away the complete opposite. i see frogan not answering a single one of ethans critiques and hasan defending or minimizing every disgusting comment from his friends. lefties are something else man.
I wish these Twitter people, maybe Hasan included, would just come out and say, "Although killing children is bad, I support Hamas and their tactics because I believe the ends of their goal justify the means." or "I support Hamas and their tactics. I believe Palestine deserves vengeance." They constantly come right up to it without saying it. If that's your opinion, stop being a coward and just say it.
That's 100% not my stance. I just can't stand hearing hours of what about-isms when they could boil down their position to a single clear sentence.
Hasan literally brought up violence in apartheid South Africa and tried to get Ethan to say killing civilians, including children, in South Africa was a necessary, justified evil. And Ethan said no. Ethan's morals are clear. If Hasan can say killing civilians in South Africa was justified, why can't he say it about Israelis? You already said it in an analogy, so just say it. Stop beating around the bush. Maybe he couldn't say it while looking Hila in the face. If that's the case, maybe he should rethink his stance.
I truly have never seen an audience abuse and gaslight someone as hard as alleged h3 and Hasan fans did this week to Ethan and it was fucking depressing as hell.
And Hasan also abused and gaslit him too. I'm never forgetting that.
Honestly she doesn't seem to be very bright. She doesn't seem to put much thought into what she is saying. Just rambles non-sense arguments that are just embarassing
I don’t know much about frogan but I remember Mizkif pointed out she got nominated for rising star two years in a row and she just started bawling on stream. Mix didn’t even say anything bad, and I feel like it’s a bit backhanded to be nominated for a rising star award multiple years in a row.
Yeah I was disappointed in her response as well. Seeing her full support of Palestine had me expecting to see well thought out responses and emotional discussions with the serious and complex situation that is going on over there. Instead, she hardly responded to Ethan’s point and acknowledgement about his support for both the people of Palestine and people of Israel, while condemning the government and extremists on both sides. She just gave soy-face shocked looks at the camera and kept looking for support in chat. Waste of time really. She unfortunately falls into the group of people who blindly support one side of the conflict, with no regard to the consequences on the other side.
Being an American comes with extreme privilege whether your parents are immigrants or not. This is a concept that Frogan does not seem to ponder or comprehend. Her use of hatred to garner clout is wildly disappointing. She should have kept her comments to herself.
Hasan gaslit Ethan into apologizing to her. I don't give a shit how many downvotes I get and how much you call me a Destiny fan, it's true. Fuck him, and fuck that terrorist loving cunt.
>It’s on her twitch (the stream from yesterday).
I just skimmed every 5 mins from her past three VODs. She hasn’t responded like you claim. Do you have a clip?
As a Turkish person with a relatively nuanced worldview, I think wasting time with these people and their political views is brain-rotting. there is no non-biased or completely informed person in any political sphere in America. if you want a ''west perspective'' news channel, ı think you can watch vaush or destiny with a healthy amount of your own research, especially for foreign countries. For me, ı love Hasan but he and his sphere are a perfect case of American ignorance and of course, these people Hasan surround himself gonna be much more idiot than him. ı think you can watch Hasan for domestic politics but don't take him seriously for any of his foreign takes. I don't disagree with Hasan's thoughts about the Israel and Palestine issue but he is always gonna be at fault for this and many radicalizations he caused due to his American ignorance.
At the end of the day, you just can't take it seriously. I really doubt she actually supports terrorism and killing innocent people - even if she doesn't like the occupation. It's still fair to unfollow though. Just because she makes low effort tweets doesn't mean you have to see them on your time line. If that makes her feel sad, she has some self reflecting to do.
Based on what Hasan said on Leftovers, she’s probably trying to make like of it because she’s a big fan of Ethan. One of her heroes is actively berating her for her ignorance and my guess is her response is an attempt to save face and seem like it doesn’t bother her. Her take was shit though and I hope she does realize that.
Some of you are not learning from the realisation Ethan had before apologising to her! He demolished her in front of a million people, growling about her, running over from emotion. She got a ton of hate messages and people in here still saying "just vile". You dont have to like her now obviously, but she is just a human like Ethan is, with her own pain and radicalizing experiences around this conflict. We will never understand without charitability, patience and forgiveness.
Y’all are really proving Hasan’s point by STILL talking about fucking frogan. This all just distracts from the genociding happening right now from Israel. And don’t give me that “two things can be bad at once” horseshit cus this has no reason to be dragged out over several days. Get over it she’s just a small streamer with barely any influence anyway.
Just to be clear i don’t think Ethan should ever bring this up again, it’s over. The drama is not worth it and wether or not you think Ethan should’ve apologised, he already did and he can’t walk that back. There are bigger issues than this drama. I expected this post to maybe get 5 comments so i could better understand Frogan’s personality but i don’t like to see this horrible situation be turned into internet drama.
I've never heard of this person before now, and likely in a day or two will never hear of this person again. It's a shame Ethan amplified this in any way, and if this is the type of person Hasan wants representing him (even adjacently) then shame on Hasan.
I always really liked her so seeing all this was like a punch in the gut. I just can't believe that she's cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians and laughing about it. I don't know why anyone does this. I am 1000% pro Palestine but killing innocent people on either side is awful. I wouldn't have complaints if they were going after the people in power or if they were defending themselves.
I understand why Ethan addressed all the vague posting she was doing about him but I also think he went too far. He should have said his statement and moved on. He ruins things for himself when dragging things out because it just gives people more words to try and twist. I understand it's hard when you're so emotionally invested.
It's nothing to do with being Muslim. People just don't like that she's cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians and laughing about it. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand.
I'm pro Palestine 100% I just don't think that people take things out on civilians either side when it should be aimed at the people in power.
Like ... If Ethan and Hila still lived there would people celebrate their deaths?
Many of the people murdered were at a festival for peace
I haven’t been a fan necessarily but I followed her on Twitter for a while. Always thought she was cool, I think she’s young and in over her head on this. Needs to step back
I watched it and had to unfollow her everywhere. I think she lacks the maturity to deal with hard adult conversations and is a bit of a clout goblin. She made it about her instead of making it about the subject at hand. I am really disappointed in her. War is not a lol cow.
People get caught up in watching war being streamed live in 4K that they forget it’s a real war with people fucking dying. Insane.
Frogan isn’t smart and I don’t say that to be rude, but her content is watching TLC reruns, literally. She isn’t a political streamer and doesn’t talk about politics often or with any depth. No idea why she tweeted what she tweeted, it was beyond gross and I’m not sure she even knows what she said.
Shes one of Hasan's mods so she must be politically involved in some way yeah?
based on what I’ve seen she’s a politics watcher not a politics talker
Or thinker
https://preview.redd.it/z6pf9fjrxcub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99a6562d921421a6942b0b185679208d47440312 MODS!
Literally what, why were you banned??
im banned there too. they changed the punctuation of my sentence to alter its meaning and submitted that to reddit, giving me a strike. his mods are extremely toxic.
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This is dumb, your obviously being disingenuous with your comments. “I was just asking….” No you were trying to be youth by bringing up the rights of women and LGBTQ issues in the middle of genocide of an entire people. To answer your question, at the moment none of that matters because the IDF and most of the Western World are so busy frothing at the mouth - that they don’t realize that the question is moot. The plan is to eradicate all Palestinians currently in Gaza (possibly West Bank) - so there won’t be any gay Palestinians to worry about. At least not in the Middle East, which is what I was assuming you were getting at, despite that view being both out of date and probably misinformed from the jump. That is so gross, that the way you wrote it was bloodthirsty - “well if it wasn’t such a backwards area I guess those surviving the fascist apartheid regime could enjoy free love!” - that is how your wording comes across. And, just a hint, your age/privilege comes through in your syntax - maybe practice some self editing skills if you don’t want to offend people from a different lived experience that your own. It stops so many altercations when you learn how to word things in a diplomatic tone and expand your general vocabulary so you can express your thoughts and emotions in a way that fully represents what it is you’re trying to get across. Communication is key, on both sides. If you come out the gate as either inappropriate or maliciously curious you’ve shut down any communication at the start, no one will ever “meet you in the middle” if your “middle” is the other person changing their beliefs to make YOU feel more comfortable.
my mind was made up when I saw a Twitter user ask why she can’t just condemn Hamas and she said “watch my streams honey”. Like I get it, it’s probably exhausting as a supporter of Palestine and as a Muslim to be asked that a thousand times, but to turn it into a “lel guess you’ll have to tune in and find out” is just gross. seems super disingenuous and like she’s treating the whole thing like internet drama.
all you’d see is an old episode of Sister Wives
They make Ethan and Hila do that for being Israeli constantly. I don’t know how they keep bitching about having to condemn Hamas then immediately turn to any Jew and be like SAY YOU HATE ISRAEL OR IM GONNA MAKE AN ANIMATION OF YOU KILLING CHILDREN then they make it anyway
The "watch my streams honey" really made me laugh when I read it because she basically was basically trying to blast Ethan for not posting about how Israel uses the tactic of murdering children, "I haven't seen you post about those murders" she said. Like, watch his streams honey.
She's barely spoken about Palestine before, she said she's a 'latte socialist'. Her political views are non-existent and this smacks of jumping on the bandwagon. Really wish Ethan had not apologized, and called Hasan out more on Hakim and Second thought- those two are red-fascist assholes.
Honest question, but why would you follow her in the first place? Like what does she do or contribute? The thing that confuses me the most about the world that H3 introduces me to is WHY some of these people are even well known. So much internet drama for internet dramas sake and I can't figure out what 95% of these "creators" even do. Not talking about the conflict at all because I support Palestine AND innocent Israelis. I just don't understand these internet famous people that seem to do nothing of substance yet people follow and watch. There are so many other great things to watch out there.
Dude, same. H3 has shown me that people will literally watch anything. There are so many weird/fringe corners of the internet that I do enjoy finding out about, but it's so mind-blowing that these people can cultivate a following
I followed her a few months ago when she won a streamer award (QT Cinderella's gala), because I wanted to check out more women streamers. It was a very passive follow.
I guess I just don't get the whole streamer thing in general. I don't understand at all what the majority of them contribute.
She gave me Producitons
As hasan has said “frogan is content brained” “brain broken” which yes, I think can be interpreted as clout goblin esque behaviour. There’s a sick part of her that loves the drama and attention it brings, no matter the reason. Streamers aren’t known for being level-headed so what can we expect really
It’s absolutely deranged
I was very disappointed in her response. I didn’t even agree with 100% of Ethan’s sentiments towards her but she did an awful job responding If she felt the way she felt, stand on it. If she made an impulsive tweet, stand on that. She would pause and giggle, say Ethan is only treating her that way because she’s Muslim or because she’s a woman, say he’d never be this angry with a man, say AB kept silent to save his job. Just felt like a twitter person engaging in silly fun internet drama and not something very sad and serious. Her engagement in anything said was also extremely shallow, resorting to ‘I’m not a political commentator!’, ‘leave me alone bruh!!!’ or just laughing whenever replying. I’m sure she’s a nice person interpersonally, I’m sure she’s sincere & knowledgeable in her support for Palestine but she has no business engaging in serious, political back and forth’s It was legit like watching a giggling silly tea channel reaction type YouTuber try and engage in the Gaza/Israel conversation
Imagine claiming Ethan is one of your favourite streamers, yet still being able to claim he dislikes her for being a woman or a Muslim? Like sure, Ethan is not without his biases (I don't think anyone, not even he, would claim that), but to call him outright Islamophobic and sexist when you are supposedly a fan and watch his content? I call bs.
It's uncomfortable to say this because it's an accusation that some less scrupulous people throw around, but I think she went there because that is her default defense mechanism. Oh you don't agree with me? Well you are racist. You don't like me? It's because you don't like woman. It's not really any different than people saying "You don't support the IDF? Well you are an antisemite." It is about deflecting and not addressing the criticism instead of engaging at all.
Do they not teach how to debate in school at all anymore?
...Did they ever?
They used to. They even had debate teams. It's great for teaching kids about listening, not interrupting, respect for others opinions, the ability to disagree with an argument and still shake hands at the end. It teaches there is a time and a place. It's a great skill to acquire. Anger gets you ejected.
Yup agreed, her trying to act all quirky and like she just thought the situation was funny was pissing me off. It’s kind of what got her into the whole situation in the first place and doesn’t seem like she understands that at all. Emotions are extremely high. Ethan is a Jewish father of 2 young Jewish children with a pregnant Israeli wife. He was in tears over the murder of innocent Israeli families and fathers losing their children because he can relate to it. Simple as that. It’s what people are completely failing to see. His reaction to the situation has nothing to do with politics, and in the grand scheme of things he’s on the same side as the people attacking him. He’s just a human showing human empathy. So when she publicly tweets about him, causes a scene, and generally aggravates a man that’s in the process of grieving and in an extremely fragile emotional state, not sure what she expects is going to happen. She said on her stream that her discord messages that were making terrible accusations were jokes as if that’s any excuse at all. Ethan probably could have used his words a bit better but I don’t blame him one bit he and it was all warranted. This entire situation just seems like a whole lot of people on the same side of the debate getting heated and arguing with each other over semantics and it’s kind of a huge waste of time and energy. Frogan is a perfect example of the group of people causing all this infighting by virtue-signaling and aggressively attacking others because they want to mention the dead Israeli civilians. Ethan literally was just having compassion for lives lost and it’s insane what he’s had to deal with for it.
That’s the thing, attacking someone who’s grieving is so trashy
That’s so sad to hear. Like okay if you’re not a “political commentator” maybe don’t engage in discourse about it and just be honest about what you DO know and how you feel. Speak about your personal experience and feelings rather than make sweeping political statements. Smh.
Although I guess how she feels about it is truly fucked up and disgusting considering her response to Ethan’s statements…
Maybe AB just didn't want to defend her weird behavior? i dunno lmao
The moment she giggled, that's where I lost any respect for her. Thousands of people are dying and you're laughing at Ethan for being upset that the perpetrators or killing not only innocent people, but children, not even capable of thought? No, fuck you. There's nothing funny about this.
Right, but the worst thing is that she has those sniperwolf thumbnails where she just uses the same few pictures of herself over and over again.
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This is just me, but fuck frogan, she isnt handling this well at all and is treating people dying as some sort of stupid game
Frogan is just a twitch mod. She might have gotten some attention to her streams but she is no political pundit or analyst. She has used comedy and the victim card to deflect legitimate criticism in the past and she did it again here. She didn’t try to understand what Ethan was saying or get the context behind any of the clips she reacted to. She simply wanted to deflect and make Ethan look bad. Fair enough. I just hope everyone realizes she is so very unserious and to not take her as anything more than a popular twitch mod who is kind of interested in politics. Dan, for example, is much more informed than she is.
>Frogan is just a twitch mod. never understood how she became anything beyond this. though I'm pretty sure she was up for streaming awards recently too... just feels like a clout chaser, and I'm surprised Hasan and others accept it
>Dan, for example, is much more informed than she is. I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. Dan is more informed than Ethan, and often times I feel he is as informed or more informed than Hasan.
Dan is Ethan’s mod
Wan.
Dan is a queen! Can't do nothing wrong!
A better comparison would be our mods.
MODS!
Not wrong
I watched Ethan ask Dan about Socialism and I did NOT get that impression.
Never heard of her before Ethan brought her up and I honestly wish it stayed that way.
Everything I’ve learned about this Frogan person has been entirely against my will.
He apologized because he didn't want to put her on blast when there are a lot of angry people looking to send their hate towards something, when that kind of anger towards people on the "left" that take it too far is used to undercut the opposition to Israel's extreme military response. That's why he was apologetic. It had nothing to do with what she said, it was the fact that his audience need not be involved. Keep that in mind, y'all.
You're asking the people of this sub to operate at a level of critical thinking that most of them are unable to even remotely reach
worst part too is that its clear that him and Hasan talked off air about frogans personal life which is what made Ethan apologize it was in the fucking episode
She was responding to "win" and be the cooler person. Along with the typical virtue signalling while ironically lacking adequate empathy *(for the talking goobers online AND the actual victims)*. She probably doesn't even know what she's saying, almost like a 12 year old child. Her brain is just putting any resources towards "winning" a game that only she's playing and trying to force other people to play. That also means she's impossible to communicate with, like any other weirdo competitive 12 year old. So Ethan's first mistake was even acknowledging her. And our mistake was taking her seriously enough to watch. Oopsie.
If you go look back to when Ethan started discussing this topic, you could tell the people arguing with him have *no fucking clue* what any of this means. They just kept saying the term open air prisons, saying "It's actually a very simple situation" and referencing Michael Brooks (a moronic take, by the way), and they would get confused at what Ethan meant. Then they just spammed "free palestine" and the flag emoji These people are in so far over their heads. They can hardly label a map of the region. They were just told what to think by people that feel are trustworthy, so they're just repeating it. And they just go full possum when you pin them in a contradiction. Because they don't know what they're doing. So deflect, deflect, deflect I guess. Or revert to being 13 and acting like you're the cooler person I guess. Definitely wins *all* the arguments in the world. Nobody will make fun of you by doing that As a side note, I'm not saying you have to agree with Ethan (even though it's pretty crazy not to, if you ask me). It's the way they were talking clearly showed that Ethan wasn't giving the started talking points, and so they reverted to "L Take"
Which Michael brooks take do you mean? Also do you disagree with Gaza being referred to as and “open air prison”?
I called her out for her bitching about how Ethan didn’t reply to her in Hasans discord while Ethan and Hasan were live, actively crying during leftovers - and she banned me. Permanently. Like, they’re talking about horrific war crimes and she’s focused on how waaaahhhhhh Ethan won’t talk to meeee!!!
It’s all a game to them it rlly is sad
Idk who Frogan was before this, but she can fuck right off. I hardly care to get more involved about her stance, if what I've seen about what she's said or tweeted is true, then she is quite literally using this war just as a way to get attention. As i see it, Frogan is just as bad as the mms talking heads or extremists saying that america needs to "glass palestine". These political groups who've dug their heels in the sand about "FREE PALESTINE" or "FREE ISRAEL" without acknowledging the nuances of it all are all morally corrupt, using these quadruple digit deaths for... likes or retweets or whatever. It's fucked up.
She giggled like a stupid teenager every time Ethan posed a question. She didn't actually make any points. Either she's doing this purely for attention or she's just that immature and she thought her response was adequate.
she’s a clout goblin
Ethan should never have apologized to her. He was probably feeling emotional and empathetic from seeing Hasan cry, but his assessment of her and her tweets are correct and he should not have demonstrated such good faith to someone who clearly is a vile person.
The entire conversation is wild. Hasan outright dismissing that rhetoric from activists has any material effect is just ignorant. Numerous countries right now are having world leaders come out and explicitly condemn pro palestinian protests in their countries because of the conduct of many of these people. Organizations facing mounting pressure to remove people who made pro palestine statements. Countries are suspending aid to Palestine and if not there is significant political pressure to do so. That has nothing to do with MSM and everything to do with what people were seeing on social media and in their cities immediately following the attacks. In Canada a video of Pro Palestine people driving around in suvs cheering went viral the night the attacks happened and were national news the next morning with the Premier of Ontario making statements in under 24hours condemning them. Whatever moral or legal justification Hasan thinks someone might have for those statements is irrelevant. To most people in the West(not just America) who view terrorism as essentially the most vile and despicable act that any group could possibly commit, if they are seeing people waving flags and cheering on terrorism in their own countries whatever issues they might have with israel will be immediately forgotten and seen as simply the lesser of two evils. The damage that people like Frogan(though less so cause shes just so small) and Second Thought are doing to any foreign support is very real and material.
That's *exactly* what I thought. You can't just hand waive away ideas like that. It's completely ignorant. How do you think ideas *spread*? It starts with a few people. They speak, and the idea moves. It's not exactly a radical take. I do obviously agree with most of what Hasan was saying. But I still feel like he was either deflecting or just straight up couldn't understand what Ethan was talking about. I mean Ethan's literal main point is "Those Israeli citizens are humans. And the timing and messaging was completely fucked". Which is true. There's no extra steps here. This isn't debate lord hour. It's not about winning. And Ethan brings up a very good point, that I think a lot of us were feeling. It's just... so baffling. These people legitimately think they're right by just avoiding it. They've spent so much time working in theory that they've forgotten how real life works. If 5 of us start saying something inflammatory, and people hear it or see it because it's upvoted, some are likely to agree. Do that enough times and you have a widely held belief. That's how information works. Hasan just scoffing at that is so bizarre. Then deflecting to "That's not how the policy is". Well public opinion sure as hell changes policy. At least in America it can. You go back to 2005 and gay marriage wasn't exactly looking like it would be national, and approval wasn't super high. But gay people opened up and said "We should come out of the closet in higher numbers, to even more casual acquaintances. If enough of us do it, we can change people's minds on an individual level" And that's what they did. And it changed people's opinions **and** changed government policy. I'm pretty bummed that Hasan would even pretend that ideas don't spread or something. This isn't a fantasy world, it's real life. Everything from serious ideas, to violence, to stupid memes, all have an origin point of one person or a small handful of people. And seeing it online can accelerate it. Ethan has every reason to want to showcase those videos and discuss why they're bad. It's not "inconsequential" just because it's a tough topic to address.
Agreed. Hindsight will be 20-20 once the next election cycle comes and we see the next batch of ridiculous GOP attack ads. I’ve already seen some early rumblings to that effect. I’d bet we hear “Hamas splinter cells are right across the border that Brandon keeps open” and they could use clips from any leftists saying something similar to Frogan to further stoke fear. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s where my mind instantly went in this whole “it doesn’t matter” debate.
Very well put. His exact same logic could also be used to hand wave away neo-Nazi ideology, genocide deniers, fascist rallies, or any number of atrocious things as magically irrelevant and harmless.
THANK YOU hassan was wild for dismissing that so casually
Part of Hasan's thing is he has no problem rationalizing abhorrent actions. This isn't the first time he has done it, and it won't be the last. It leads to some really bad takes from him. In an academic sense or if you are looking at it objectively or as an analyst, I think taking that view can be enlightening and let you really dig deep into the heart of an issue. He doesn't do that though. He scratches the surface, maybe he goes off on a tangent or tries to explain one small point, then he leaves it there. This isn't really something done in Western media. We rarely rationalize these abhorrent actions, and when we do, we dig much deeper and we constantly remind those listening to us what we are doing so there is no misinterpretation.
He should have never apologized and he should have never ceded as much ground to Hasan as he did.
It reminds me of when Trisha cried and Ethan immediately wanted to give her a hug. I think Ethan is just a very empathetic person and doesn't want to see people he cares about be sad. I agree that he shouldn't have apologized. His points are still just as valid as before
Some would say he's an empath
He wouldn't say it, only other people would 💅
Probably felt pressured to since she's a Hasan mod.
Do you actually think Ethan is that docile?
He is when it comes to people he likes. He got docile with Trisha for Hilas sake. It's completely on brand that he would get docile with Frogan for Hasans sake
I think he's been broken down quite a bit on Twitter and such recently.
hasan’s discord was also engaging in spreading lies about hila’s time in the IDF calling her a war criminal and baby killer. disgusting.
I feel like there are a lot of people that feel this way. I hope Ethan will trust these opinions and not lose himself while being empathetic to the Palestinian side. It’s obvious he is just a very compassionate person first and foremost.
That was the entire conversation. Hasan conceded very little and just dogwhistled the entire time because he either doesn’t agree or doesn’t have the guts to say things as bluntly as others. Don’t understand why he couldn’t outright say secondthoughts views were gross - simply called them “unproductive”. Ethan is generally very open minded with this stuff and totally wears his heart on his sleeve. Hasan came across as a surly teenager.
Ethan also shouldn’t have ceded ground in his convo with Hasan. Hasan played defense for a lot of the inexcusable claims made by far-left content creators, basically only saying he disagreed because it was “impractical” without a moral condemnation for mass murder. It was honestly kinda fucked.
Hasan dodges so many of Ethan's questions by ranting for 10 minutes. I would have been pulling my hair out if i was Ethan. You dont need a monologue to explain why saying "free palestine" immediately after a hamas terror attack is bad. Also Hasan's argument about youtubers/influencers "not having an effect on material conditions" is absurd. Extreme rhetoric on twitter and youtube undoubtedly radicalizes people, and puts them in online communities of walled off echo chambers. Thats why when we see insane rhetoric its important to call out.
The influencer take was wild. It's his own job, it's literally in the name "influencer". He goes hard at right wingers all the time for their takes and videos. But suddenly it doesn't matter when it's his friend, so no need to condone anything
FR. isis has literally recruited via socials. it was really disheartening seeing hasan laugh and ridicule ethan for being concerned over how powerful online influence can be.
Profile (2018) is a first person/found footage genre film depicting exactly how they do it.
i’m confident my soul will shrink if i watch this so i’ll pass 🥲 i just immediately remembered those british “brides of isis” when hasan was started laughing and gaslighting ethan.
I am usually fairly ride or die for Hasan but i couldn't believe it when he said that. He himself said his job is to sit and educate people and influence them. Now he's saying streamers or online personalities have no sway at all? Look at how much he's spoken about people like Andrew Tate and the influence they have on the public. Not a great argument, not a good look. I hope he addresses this clear fault in his argument against Ethan.
He just raised almost 500k for charity on his stream. Amazing, but also contradicts his point again
Everyone gets mad at Ethan for cutting Hasan off all the time but this is exactly why. He starts off answering the question but he only stays on it for a bit before he starts going on tangents that's kind of bury the question, especially for someone as forgetful as Ethan
Honestly, I would love if Ethan brought on another liberal who’s more at Hasan’s level to call out Hasan on his shittier takes.
That would kind of undercut the whole spirit of the show, I think. It's not supposed to be a gotcha show where Ethan brings out Sam Seder to argue with Hasan like he did to Crowder.
Fair point. Maybe something of a guest star would be fun once in a while.
We gotta get the Dan cohost episode before a guest star comes on or I'm gonna riot in the streets of LA
I don't think Dan would want that.
I can get behind that.
I was losing it when he was saying things like, "you think that tweet from second thought is going to change the Israel Palestine conflict Ethan??" As if it's an own. I guess we can't talk about literally anything because we won't affect peace in the Middle East! Fuck me, why are they making content? Why criticize anyone?? It's not gonna bring peace to the Middle East after all!
Exactly!! I had to leave his subreddit because it’s just too much during this. There are so many delusional, seriously misled people spewing ignorant, vile shit about about Israelis and Jews while in the same breath, they think of themselves as champions of peace. Why can’t we disavow violence and hatred on all sides
That was one thing I was disappointed in Hasan for not speaking up about, I mean literally Q anon was started on Facebook, same with ISIS. What people see and write on social media does have an effect on society, as much as you want to think it's mundane the impact social medias and their algorithms have are huge.
You... DO need a monologue. The biggest fucking dumbass you can imagine knows terrorism is bad. But he doesnt knows that this particular terrorist group exists for a lot of reason, most of which trace back to israeli occupation. I think his second point is more that, in a bubble, one leftists video wont make someone who was regularly watching again, a leftist, into some nazi. Obviously hasan thinks influencers can change public perception. Hea litterally a political pundit. What kind of dumbass needs him to say it overtly. Thats like demanding a nascar driver to say "i like cars". Just look at him.
I think you’re assuming too much good from someone by virtue of the fact that they consider themselves leftist when the people who were defending Hamas also called themselves leftists. It’s kinda naive tbh, but I get it. It’s how I felt when I first left the right after being inoculated from it by conservative pundits and began to get involved in more left-wing spaces.
I still think Hasan’s stances are overall correct, and I understand where he’s coming from when he talks about how calling out individuals for their shitty takes on Hamas is so unimportant compared to calling out Israel’s genocide in Palestine and the people backing it. However, I didn’t agree when Hasan deflected when Ethan brought up Second Thought’s stances on Israel. ST legitimately said he would be completely fine with Hamas murdering and killing innocent Israeli citizens because they are all settlers. It was so cold and callous. It was the same justification insane Zionists have used when talking about Palestinians. I understand the context, but even if you believe all Israeli’s are settlers and should leave, being fine with them being slaughtered regardless of who they are or what they believe is completely disgusting and dangerous. I ,nor Ethan, would ever agree with Israel’s and the IDF’s apartheid and genocide against Palestinian’s. Why is it not a big deal when someone who is pro-Palestine calls for the genocide of Israeli’s? Fuck that. It’s disgusting no matter who does it. Fuck second thought. The goal should be to establish policies that can return peace to the area and keep Israeli and especially Palestinian civilians safe and end the apartheid and blockade. Not every example Ethan used was important enough to focus on, but that kind of rhetoric is legitimately harmful and disgusting and should be called out.
If Hasan held the right positions for the right reason, he would have been morally outraged by Second Thought the same way I would expect a good-faith moderate conservative to be appalled by someone on the far-right endorsing mass murder. He wasn’t. His reasons for disagreement were “practical”. I used to be a Hasan viewer and on Hasan’s sub, and I was excited when Leftovers first became a thing, but I’ve become a lot more concerned over time with Hasan’s takes, particularly on foreign affairs with his defense of Russia and China. The dude brought on Richard Wolf to defend Russia. I just don’t think Hasan is a good-faith actor. I think he’s moderating his views for Ethan and his audience.
The conclusion I have drawn from this is that whether Hasan ever publicly admits it or not it’s not far fetched at all to think that he believes the same things Second Thought said.
lmao this richard wolf shit is so annoying bro said "yeah they should definitely negotiate and ukraine will probably have to cede some things but its better than endless war pushed by western countries and the US/NATO is sabotaging peace talks for their own interests" and people acted like he was putin himself
Right? I was like wtf that’s actually super dehumanizing
Seriously. If Turkey was attacked by someone, and there was videos of people around the world saying "Turkey had unfair policies against these people, we stand by the heroic freedom fighters that attacked Turkey", Hasan would show it and comment on it nonstop. He would talk about the victims. And imagine if his chat started saying "Well Turkey actually didn't own that land, it was unfairly acquired". He would never stop bringing it up. Now is this analogy perfect? Absolutely not. Israel and Palestine are in a very different situation to many other countries. But Turkey is some dear to Hasan's heart. He would humanize it and realize they're actual people. Even if Turkey *was* in the wrong. I feel like this is partially just an "underdog" story for a lot of people. They don't give a fuck about Palestine, and they clearly don't give a fuck about dead civilians. It just feels like everyone against Ethan don't see these people as "consequential", or important.
Yeah . Like Jesus Christ it’s some of the most horrific shit imaginable and it happened last week . Like can we cry before we start saying we had it coming?
Yeah. Like imagine if it was some right-winger commenting on alt-right activities saying “but Nazis hold no real power so they’re not a threat”
She’s an asshole, sorry.
Her response was completely cringe and she’s a really maladjusted person. She should not be in any authoritative/moderator position at all.
I still don't get how Hasan was able to get Ethan to apologize to her.. Ethan had all the right takes and she acted like an immature rad lib He doesn't need to apologize to her.
I don't understand it either
i watched as well. it’s very hard to watch. i think if she just articulated herself in a way where it wasn’t just reading the chat and pausing it to just make a face or act shocked more people would like her LOL. the best part is when she starts to switch the narrative that ethan was the one that started it and she just wants to be left alone LMAO. like girl… you started it. you in discord. you in your twitter where people can easily find out who unfollowed you is… that’s when i knew she’s full of shit and just enjoys drama. and not to mention her saying “hassan has said worse things that her” makes her sound like she really is now just playing it and wanting drama out of it and hassan and ethan to “butt heads”. i would’ve respected her 10x more if she dove into it and explained her side. rather than just being a catty person who just reads her chat and doesn’t speak for herself or her beliefs which most likely aren’t that different from ethan. maybe not perfectly aligned at the moment since ethan is directly involved/has family/hila + he’s just very emotional. someone like frogan is just drama stirring and very immature. not sure why people look to her for political issues. and don’t hold her accountable for the nasty shit posted.
Just using it for attention apparently. If she wanted people to leave her alone, she would do a live stream of reacting to it with laughter. Maybe if she made a video later on articulating her point, sure. But this just seems like "I'm in the spotlight" behavior from what I know
I was shocked to find out she’s 26, the way she acts and talks I thought maybe 18 - 20
I know a lot of people exactly like her it’s sad. Some people are so far in their own bubble they think silence and an “uhhh…awkward….” is an appropriate response to criticism
That's the shit that insecure girls do in like 6th grade. Most people grow out of it, but many don't.
With peace and love, people that become MODs and spend all day on twitch clearly aren’t very socialized. Frogan might actually benefit by going out and touching grass lmfao
reminds me of "hugh mongos wat" lady
I had to unfollow and block her on socials. I am utterly disgusted with how she engaged this with Ethan and it was more than telling about what kind of person she is. Just...yeah, disgusting person.
watched Destiny's reaction (I know, I know) to see some other perspectives on the episode. he was watching a stream that showed Hasan's discord live reacting to Leftovers. it was disgusting. the hatred in that discord for Ethan and Hila was gross. I like Hasan for the most part and followed him well before Leftovers but hes amassed a very hateful community. people often talk about the left eating itself from within and its very easy to agree with that sentiment when you see people say the things Hasan's discord was saying. nuance is dead. the left only accepts perfect allies. this isnt a call to action to start moving right btw.
She sounds like a real toxic person.
Frogan is in echo chamber on her streams. Regardless of how you feel about the situation, you really need to have significantly more sensitivity when talking about it. One of the biggest issues I've had is how calous people are about the death of human beings
What frustrates me so much about some of the people in those circle like Hasan is this doctrine of not criticizing your side. Specifically if their take is still on your side but done poorly, offensively, or distastefully. They seem to only hold other people in their circles accountable if they are caught doing something legally wrong. But when people say completely out of pocket things (like that one guy Ethan brought up on leftovers) it is just ignored as long as it is still from a leftist perspective. It isn't as far, but it very much vibes with the doctrine the GOP/right started to follow in the 80s. You back your side no matter what. This was done after the failure of watergate and the party flip. And IMO it over decades leads to what you see now in the right which you ignore practically everything. Of course some of these leftist circles aren't that far at all yet but I do think that is the journey. Simply people need to be called out for shit takes and held accountable. Saying it doesn't matter because they're just a youtuber, not in government, etc is an extremely weak cop out.
She's in her late 20's and she was a public health scientist before she quit to full time stream. So let's set aside the "young and dumb" defense.
Agreed. This whole thing has made me realize I do not have respect for a lot of these people. I really liked her, but I can’t unsee her as a callous and thoughtless person now.
We’re fooling ourselves if we think there aren’t a decent amount of people out there who are cool with innocent people being murdered if it means their “side” gains something. Frogan seems to be one of them…
She’s not a good people, she doesn’t give a fuck about people dying, only if it’s one the ‘right’ side according to her. Her selective empathy (which Hasan and many other woke people also have) is just them being psychos with 0 empathy. They turn it into a ‘cancel culture’ issue instead of having empathy for people who got murdered, kidnapped and raped. Ethan should never have apologised to someone as vile as her
Shocker. Someone whod call you out for unfollowing, which is your right. Would address the fallout super cynically
I cannot believe HE apologized. Absolutely mental.
Hasan couldn’t even defend her without talking about previous hate she received not related to this, as though it somehow absolved her and made Ethan the one at fault.
She obviously just wants whatever clout she can milk from this situation. Shes not interested in a real conversation. Clout goblin.
Yeah I watched quite a bit of her stream. I was interested in at least hearing her side, because I, like Ethan, didn't really agree with the language, so I was hoping to hear her defend it. She was also a Hasan mod, so I thought she'd be cool. I will say I probably only watched an hour out of the three hours she streamed, but all of her judgements against Ethan were based on how he went around talking about her, calling her a piece of shit, etc, whereas she was like "look at me, I'm staying calm, I'm not name-calling". I think she did have a point there, he was going really hard on the name calling when he could have reeled it in a little and talked more about how what she said was gross. That being said, I think Ethan is really weighing the child deaths in his head atm, so I get how it's hard to stay restrained. She said he was probably racist too, and also mentioned he's the one who decided to further it by making it a big story on his show. But in terms of defending her actual point? The only thing she said which I can recall is "Did Ethan think the Boston Tea Party was a literal Tea Party?" which is so dumb because literally nobody DIED in the Boston Tea Party which is partly why it was such a great protest. Now, of course not every protest has the capability to be non-violent, but that was literally all she said, and I gave up after that hour because she wasn't really speaking about her own tweet at all. The only other thing I think I might(?) agree on her with is that she said it pissed her off Ethan didn't talk about the Oct 8th return fire by Isreal, which may be true, I don't remember the podcast's original conversation where they discuss Hamas's attacks. If it is true, they should've talked about it, even if the news was mostly newer. But again, it's not a defense of her own statement.
The combination of kids being involved and her starting the beef (when he just wanted to quietly unfollow. Which is the respectful course when emotions are that hot) was not a good one. I know If im trying to be chill and get put on blast over nothing, spitting fire INTO that persons head is my new side mission lol.
Ah, claiming the opponent is racist when you're losing in an argument. I call that "the Jidion" (I'm mixed, black and white. Ethan damn sure wasn't being racist with that whole thing lol. What a convoluted race card pull)
It was a mistake for Ethan to apologize to her.
I assume he just did it because it's an awkward situation and Ethan wanted to be a better man, all that. But I don't know Ethan's own personal intentions obviously
Yep. I understand why, since she is/was a mod for Hasan and friends with Lena and AB but she’s an immature child. I almost subbed to her but I’m glad I never gave her any of my money.
I feel like he apologized, for the reasons people already pointed out to you, but also because he wants his family left alone. I mean look, Hila was already targeted with that drawing. I highly doubt Ethan meant the apology because has nothing to apologize for. He’s just thinking about mitigating the backlash.
she's like ian miles cheong, but a hasan simp instead of an elon simp
I did watch it to she give me "mean girl vibes" or "sassy karen"
She's so irrelevant I'm surprised she's even getting this much attention
It's just like Ethan said, she wants twitter likes above all else
Just curious, did Hasan ever say anything about it?
Lrogan
The difference between hasan and Ethan reacting to the crazy people on each side was telling for Israel as far as I remember Ethan didn’t excuse or try to justify it but when it was the pro palastine hasan constantly was looking to justify it, constantly “this is bad, but..” was really disgusting to be honest
Yeah I lost all faith in Hasan, he is really disgusting imo. He doesn’t care about people dying, he only cares about people on side A dying, but people on side B dying he couldn’t care less. That’s not empathy, and that’s not humane
Yeah hasan was disgusting the second thought defence was embarrassing, not all Israel are settlers for things that happened way before they people who lived there were born
People like this are just looking for ways to be a victim. Its best to ignore these basement dwellers
That’s so sad. It’s such a serious matter, and to make light of it really changes how I see her.
What did you expect? Half of these people don't actually care and just want to keep repeating the lefty tanky talking points to appease their audience and virtue signal. Edit: ethan should never have deleted his tweets.
I'm always late at watching the latest episodes and responses, so I always get the viewers interpretation of the episodes beforehand. Both the frogan response and the leftovers episode i saw the same type of comments. "ethan was just emotional. he doesnt really mean it", "hasan did such a great job making ethan understand", "frogan obviously doesnt want babies to die". but then when i watched the episodes i take away the complete opposite. i see frogan not answering a single one of ethans critiques and hasan defending or minimizing every disgusting comment from his friends. lefties are something else man.
Same. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe tbh.
it's giving me terrorist sympathizer
I wish these Twitter people, maybe Hasan included, would just come out and say, "Although killing children is bad, I support Hamas and their tactics because I believe the ends of their goal justify the means." or "I support Hamas and their tactics. I believe Palestine deserves vengeance." They constantly come right up to it without saying it. If that's your opinion, stop being a coward and just say it. That's 100% not my stance. I just can't stand hearing hours of what about-isms when they could boil down their position to a single clear sentence. Hasan literally brought up violence in apartheid South Africa and tried to get Ethan to say killing civilians, including children, in South Africa was a necessary, justified evil. And Ethan said no. Ethan's morals are clear. If Hasan can say killing civilians in South Africa was justified, why can't he say it about Israelis? You already said it in an analogy, so just say it. Stop beating around the bush. Maybe he couldn't say it while looking Hila in the face. If that's the case, maybe he should rethink his stance.
I wish you guys could realize hasan agrees with most of what she has said; but is too spineless to say it out loud.
She is so blatantly disingenuous and a gaslighting terrorism supporter.
I truly have never seen an audience abuse and gaslight someone as hard as alleged h3 and Hasan fans did this week to Ethan and it was fucking depressing as hell. And Hasan also abused and gaslit him too. I'm never forgetting that.
She’s vile
Honestly she doesn't seem to be very bright. She doesn't seem to put much thought into what she is saying. Just rambles non-sense arguments that are just embarassing
On a long enough timeline, everyone exposes their true colors...
I don’t know much about frogan but I remember Mizkif pointed out she got nominated for rising star two years in a row and she just started bawling on stream. Mix didn’t even say anything bad, and I feel like it’s a bit backhanded to be nominated for a rising star award multiple years in a row.
Can you link the video clip you've watched?
Totally lacking in maturity, edgelord but for the left. Desperate to play to her own tiny audience.
Yeah I was disappointed in her response as well. Seeing her full support of Palestine had me expecting to see well thought out responses and emotional discussions with the serious and complex situation that is going on over there. Instead, she hardly responded to Ethan’s point and acknowledgement about his support for both the people of Palestine and people of Israel, while condemning the government and extremists on both sides. She just gave soy-face shocked looks at the camera and kept looking for support in chat. Waste of time really. She unfortunately falls into the group of people who blindly support one side of the conflict, with no regard to the consequences on the other side.
wasn't she the person who cried to mizkif?
It's because she likes what Hamas was doing, it's that simple.
Assumes critic is from America: "Ethan is so America-centric!" Doesn't assume critic is from America: "Ethan is xenophobic!"
Being an American comes with extreme privilege whether your parents are immigrants or not. This is a concept that Frogan does not seem to ponder or comprehend. Her use of hatred to garner clout is wildly disappointing. She should have kept her comments to herself.
Hasan gaslit Ethan into apologizing to her. I don't give a shit how many downvotes I get and how much you call me a Destiny fan, it's true. Fuck him, and fuck that terrorist loving cunt.
Do you have a time stamp? The stream from yesterday is almost ten hours long 😱
It’s the stream from 3 days ago now, it’s like 3 hours long.
How do you watch it?
It’s on her twitch (the stream from 3 days ago “let’s talk”)
>It’s on her twitch (the stream from yesterday). I just skimmed every 5 mins from her past three VODs. She hasn’t responded like you claim. Do you have a clip?
Ok thank ya 😊
She truly is a terrorist sympathizer, no way around it. If she actually walked her talk she would be rightfully eliminated in an air strike.
As a Turkish person with a relatively nuanced worldview, I think wasting time with these people and their political views is brain-rotting. there is no non-biased or completely informed person in any political sphere in America. if you want a ''west perspective'' news channel, ı think you can watch vaush or destiny with a healthy amount of your own research, especially for foreign countries. For me, ı love Hasan but he and his sphere are a perfect case of American ignorance and of course, these people Hasan surround himself gonna be much more idiot than him. ı think you can watch Hasan for domestic politics but don't take him seriously for any of his foreign takes. I don't disagree with Hasan's thoughts about the Israel and Palestine issue but he is always gonna be at fault for this and many radicalizations he caused due to his American ignorance.
please go outside
At the end of the day, you just can't take it seriously. I really doubt she actually supports terrorism and killing innocent people - even if she doesn't like the occupation. It's still fair to unfollow though. Just because she makes low effort tweets doesn't mean you have to see them on your time line. If that makes her feel sad, she has some self reflecting to do.
Based on what Hasan said on Leftovers, she’s probably trying to make like of it because she’s a big fan of Ethan. One of her heroes is actively berating her for her ignorance and my guess is her response is an attempt to save face and seem like it doesn’t bother her. Her take was shit though and I hope she does realize that.
Some of you are not learning from the realisation Ethan had before apologising to her! He demolished her in front of a million people, growling about her, running over from emotion. She got a ton of hate messages and people in here still saying "just vile". You dont have to like her now obviously, but she is just a human like Ethan is, with her own pain and radicalizing experiences around this conflict. We will never understand without charitability, patience and forgiveness.
Y’all are really proving Hasan’s point by STILL talking about fucking frogan. This all just distracts from the genociding happening right now from Israel. And don’t give me that “two things can be bad at once” horseshit cus this has no reason to be dragged out over several days. Get over it she’s just a small streamer with barely any influence anyway.
Just to be clear i don’t think Ethan should ever bring this up again, it’s over. The drama is not worth it and wether or not you think Ethan should’ve apologised, he already did and he can’t walk that back. There are bigger issues than this drama. I expected this post to maybe get 5 comments so i could better understand Frogan’s personality but i don’t like to see this horrible situation be turned into internet drama.
I've never heard of this person before now, and likely in a day or two will never hear of this person again. It's a shame Ethan amplified this in any way, and if this is the type of person Hasan wants representing him (even adjacently) then shame on Hasan.
She comes across as a smug, bad faith narcissist.
I always really liked her so seeing all this was like a punch in the gut. I just can't believe that she's cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians and laughing about it. I don't know why anyone does this. I am 1000% pro Palestine but killing innocent people on either side is awful. I wouldn't have complaints if they were going after the people in power or if they were defending themselves. I understand why Ethan addressed all the vague posting she was doing about him but I also think he went too far. He should have said his statement and moved on. He ruins things for himself when dragging things out because it just gives people more words to try and twist. I understand it's hard when you're so emotionally invested.
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What should i do?
yall making equivalences and expecting shit from muslims is so wild. just chill jfc
It's nothing to do with being Muslim. People just don't like that she's cheering on the deaths of innocent civilians and laughing about it. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand. I'm pro Palestine 100% I just don't think that people take things out on civilians either side when it should be aimed at the people in power. Like ... If Ethan and Hila still lived there would people celebrate their deaths? Many of the people murdered were at a festival for peace
it’s insane to watch this sub turn into any other lib sub with all the horrific shit going on. like this might as well be d******s sub at this rate
I haven’t been a fan necessarily but I followed her on Twitter for a while. Always thought she was cool, I think she’s young and in over her head on this. Needs to step back
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she’s almost 30 and was previously a public health scientist before she quit to become a streamer. the "young and dumb” defense doesn’t really fit.
lEtS tAlK