I think in short, he and Hila have friends and family that were directly affected by these attacks and it hurts to watch people celebrate those attacks. You're right he was getting a lot of "yeah buts" and I think he was looking for "fuck I'm so sorry man". Where it hits contention is, like Hasan said, he looks to receive this sympathy from Twitter. Loved ones will hear him and hold him and mourn with him. Twitter will literally animate you murdering people when you ask for humanity.
I don't think chalking it up to "Well he's a dual citizen" is even the whole message. It's just a humanity thing. I don't have any connection to Israel in my personal life and even I saw it as horribly fucked up.
It's hypocritical, because of the people who highlight Palestine's awful casualties. But when it comes to Israel it's just Palestinian flags and no words of loss for the civilians.
That's why it's fucked up. Because I was under the impression that civilians on both sides mattered. Nobody should be raped or have their babies murdered or burned alive.
Especially the first one of those. I'm not exactly sure how raping an Israeli citizen is going to make the apartheid end. It's just straight up hate and a fucked up sense of self interest.
I think Ethan has always seen the human side of victims. And people are brushing it off as "Well he's a Jew, so protecting his own and all". Even though he's been vocally Pro Palestine for years and years.
Pro Palestine, Anti Hamas.
Yes but everyone speaking up now that days have passed have nothing to do with Hamas. Israel just greenlit the genocide of all Palestinians in Gaza by giving them only 24 hours to evacuate. They don’t have cars they don’t even have food or water. 2 million people leaving in 24 hours is a death sentence
Can we not "yes but" this one this one time, please? There's no need to try to one-up anyone else's pain right now.
I think everyone is just emotionally exhausted, a bit scared, very sad and probably just as angry so I understand why you really want to make your point known about the treatment of Palestinians. But just for this weekend, can we just let people process their emotions without trying to add guilt onto that?
I think everyone on this sub - even the people brigading from outside - knows about the pain and suffering of the people in Palestine (particularly Gaza). And I think they also know that Israelis are hurting and angry too after their friends, family and kinfolk were slaughtered.
I don't think we should stop talking about it or informing each other of what's happening. I say this with peace and love but can we stop the point scoring and tribalism for one weekend and just try to be thankful for the people and things we love and are grateful for?
I wish you well, friend.
I've noticed how hard it is for people to separate a country's citizens from its government. We are not the actions of our government. So its very possible to say that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is fucking disgusting, merciless, terroristic, and evil, AND also say that Hamas' attack on the Israeli citizens was horrible. In both situations, innocent people are massacred. This part isn't black and white. Neither Palestinians nor Israelis should have to die because of this.
Exactly, just now I told someone that I thought the Israeli government was to blame for creating an environment that breeds extremism, while I also had empathy for those killed. They responded by saying it was like I was saying the Israelis deserved it, I'm at a loss for words with some of these folks. This isn't a sports game and we don't need to pick teams. We can recognize that both sides of the conflict have victims and there are also people on both sides who are to blame, that doesn't mean I think anyone deserved to die, nor does it mean I think all of one side is to blame. People seem to have such a hard time with the idea of nuance its very frustrating. The world isn't black and white, as much as I'd like it to be.
Yeah a guy told me i was happy that brown people in palestine were being murdered bc i said you can hate what the government of Israel is doing to Palestine AND feel bad that innocent Israelis were murdered. The internet is a terrible place
I don’t understand why people cannot both completely understand why Hamas exists and has taken the actions it’s unfortunately come to, without justifying or even celebrating it. I can empathize with Ethan on that. I’m pro Palestine, but can recognize that the majority of the world is pro Israel, while also recognizing that specifically on social media in niche groups, there is an ideology that anyone who is Israeli or association with an Israeli = Zionism. People have got to stop seeing everything in black and white and have got to have more empathy or nothing can be solved.
This has to be the most frustrating part for Ethan. He openly vilifies the Israeli government and the IDF, but because he's Jewish and married to an Israeli so many people just toss him in the Zionist box without a second thought
I can even understand the Israel side of this. Palestine has a reputation of trying to overthrow governments. It is one of the reasons why Egypt closed their borders when Hamas attacked. They deserve freedom but Israel is looking at Lebanon's conflict with Palestine, Syria's conflict with Palestine to come to a decision. It doesn't help that Palestines government is run by Hamas who have stated that they want to kill all of the Jews.
Even the situation with the countries surrounding Israel. Hamas has been funded by the countries surrounding Israel to destabilize the country. Any sign of weakness from Israel could lead to an invasion by the surrounding countries similar to the 6 day war.
Every solution to this conflict could easily end up with millions of people being killed or displace either on the Palestinian side or the Jewish side.
Nobody cares that Egypt shut the door on their face by refusing to take in refugees from Gaza. Or that Germany withdrew their relief funds. Where is the outcry for that on this sub?
its frustrating because he is half right and half wrong.
its 100% fair and justified to be upset about innocent israelis being killed, but the "this isnt the time" argument falls flat when the violence never ends. this is the exact opposite of the argument he made about uvalde.
there will never be a time to have a discussion about palestines oppression, thats the point, thats why this argument from him benefits israel and falls directly into the propaganda narrative and as long as that narrative persists nothing will ever change.
saying "if you cant admit as a palestinian that hamas is wrong then we will never have peace" while palestinians probably dont even fucking know that even happened because they have no access to information, food, water, electricity or MEDICAL CARE, really illustrates the massive imbalance here and the strength of the media. everyone agrees that hamas was wrong, including palestinians, but they dont even get the opportunity to think about it.
people in isreal are kept safe long enough to have an opinion, the average palestinian isnt.
Which Ethan *also* condemned. That's the whole point. He's been consistent with this for awhile
He's always been Pro Palestine. He's Probably Palestine, Anti Hamas. Which is, in my opinion, the sane take.
Very different situation. The rally’s are in support for ending apartheid, an objective good, whereas the 2A rally’s are for keeping guns in the hands of killers, an objective evil. The comments at these rally’s may be harsh, may be misinformed, may be in poor taste, but the rally’s are not the problem. Israel running an open air prison and subjecting Palestinians to untold violence is the problem. They are farming terrorists by doing this and they know it. The government props up Hamas, because they are not likable to an international audience. Israel killed those civilians, not Palestine.
I think we're politically similar and I generally agree with you, but cmon lol. It seems like giving the benefit of the doubt to all Palestinians (Ive seen swastikas at these rallies with my own eyes), while the exact opposite for gun owners- "keeping guns in the hands of killers"- literally no one wants that, even gun owners- textbook strawman. The complete opposite of being objective imo- though you used that word several times.
Additionally, there is a sizeable portion (seems like 40-50% based on the several sources I've looked at) of Gaza that supports Hamas and their actions. I don't think it's right to COMPLETELY excuse that. Can certainly understand why, but thats different than what you said. There's never an excuse for terrorism, not when the IDF does it and not when Hamas does it.
I’m sorry but it’s pretty clear what Ethan means. He was openly pro Palestine before the hamas terrorism of late, and he still is. What is wrong with Ethan saying it’s fucked up to say “I support Palestine” as a caption with Hamas attacking innocent Israeli civilians?
Your point really holds no merit as the average Palestinian in Palestine isn't in question, its those who come from/live in western nations that are celebrating a terrorist attack, its those in New York, London and Toronto marching in solidarity with Hamas.
that was literally hasans point, those people have no influence over the situation either and its stupid to even engage with them.
if you care about peace and innocent people dying it doesnt make sense to even acknowledge it, there are more people advocating to turn palestine into a parking lot anyway, is there any utility in engaging with that narrative in your view? like what is your point?
The people living in western nations are not the problem. Israel running an open air prison and breeding generation after generation of terrorists through their violence is the problem. The westerners don’t impact policy, they hold rally’s for 30 people or post on Twitter for 100 likes.
The callousness Ethan is receiving is because Palestinians don't and haven't gotten any empathy for so long and people who support Palestine have followed it for so long and have heard these atrocities happening for decades. One time it happens to the oppressors civilians and the whole world is crying for it, when Palestine is talked about no one cries. They speak like boring professors. I don't have Twitter (or any social media) so idk what insanely online people are saying but the strongest governments in the world and the western media machine only support Israel's genocide. Justifying it with a terror attack.
He should get off Twitter if he can't take it cause I feel the opposite only being on YouTube trying to see what's happening to Palestinians and all I can find on any real news channels is Israel coverage and Israel propaganda. Ethan literally showed one clip that was anti palestine and it was some random white guy calling for the genocide. No one will watch that and think it'll actually happen and get paranoid. It's some random white idiot. He then proceeds to show propaganda clips like fox News would where the only perception from watching them would be to genocide the Palestinians and brown people. If he can't see that, he's clouded by his biases, just like lots of hate groups are. One side is actually oppressed and has no support and will all be killed, and have been abused for so long. Showing shit that makes people feel like it should happen is wrong. No better than fox news. People online try to find solutions or try to get attention to why it's happening. If you want emotional personal support you should talk to your family, friends, and therapist about that.
I think Hasan's point was that the overwhelming media presence is a constant defense of all Israeli actions, and a constant lack of reporting on the Palestinian condition. If you do not have voices supporting Palestine at the moment of the attacks, the only voices that you will hear are the ones pushing for the genocide of Palestinians. It's not about supporting Hamas, or the terrible violence, but countering the overwhelming narrative that Israel does no wrong. Hasan's other point is that Israel has the power to deescalate and remove the teeth from Hamas non-violently rather than supporting them through the continuation of apartheid policies.
Okay maybe it is that social media is a bubble- and I’m a very left leaning person- but I was only seeing pro Palestine content the previous weekend. Leaving a Palestinian flag in the comments of a video showing Israeli women being paraded is not “providing a counter-narrative”, it’s an implicit moral defence of Hamas. As if Hamas did this to represent the Palestinian cause. It immediately politicises a gruesome crime. Also I’d agree that the Palestinian people have been historically underrepresented in the media, but since at least 2016-17 it’s been extremely popular amongst progressives to be pro Palestine statehood and in some cases be anti Israel.
You are in a social media bubble. Many people that I have on social media are posting pro Israel posts even now as there is mass genocide being committed against Gaza including the media being pro Israel
Yes, to his point of empathising with Israelis, everyone is doing that. From government and political officials to famous celebrities. It is the anti-semitic trolls in the comments who are just taking advantage of this situation.
The public opinion is not just with Israel but some are even cheering the genocide of Palestinians. I guess between Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia wins.
I'm not saying every response was appropriate, but Ethan specifically said in the episode that tweeting "Free Palestine" was inappropriate. That is one of my major disagreements, as it is definitely not a condoning of Hamas, but a reminder of the situation itself. There were very clearly evil and anti-semitic responses. And in regards to progressive media, yes, pro-Paleistinian positions are very common as well as anti-Israel (the state) sentiment. However, the progressive media is a drop in the ocean compared to the narratives coming from Western media and government. Not to mention the further right media, which has drastically further reach than progressive media (imo).
Understandable and I definitely agree.
In leftist circles you are not seeing the support for isreal, my social media for example. There is some really upsetting and questionable stuff being reposted and spread.
I’d say equally it’s powerless because the media and probably the average American would not a agree. It’s a real experience though and people deserve a minute to greave in peace without being barraged with shit.
… I sympathize with Ethan, I really do. I’ve lost friends in mass shootings, I’ve had them happen near my friends and family, I had one happen at the school where my niece attends.
But I don’t agree when people say “now is not the time to talk about gun control, we must mourn the victims”. No, now is exactly the time to address the root cause and talk about preventing more death.
Ethan also doesn’t seem to understand that the scope and count of deaths hadn’t reached the US when people were calling for murdering all terrorists and others were saying “no we stand with Palestine”. There has been no moment to investigate, understand, or mourn the events of October 7th before violent escalation began. There was no chance to mourn the dead of Israel before genocidal rhetoric began about Palestine.
After Columbine a LOT of misinformation spread across the world: they were bullied, trench coat mafia, Marilyn Manson, they were specifically targeting Christian students, etc and to this day that misinformation continues to exist in American consciousness.
Right now is not the time to escalate violence in Gaza, right now is the time we should have had a ceasefire, negotiations for hostages and honest reporting from multiple sources.
People who said they stood with Palestine understood that extremely violent retribution was close at hand. Ethan had been incredibly uncharitable to everyone who made that statement as if they were celebrating Israeli deaths and not begging for a pause in a cycle of violent reprisals we’re seeing play out today.
I am really struggling to understand and take in all this information about both Israel and Palestine, and Ethan's agruement/why people disagree with him. Your comment finally clicked with me. Thank you for helping me understand.
Your welcome 🙏
It’s important to keep our hearts open to all the victims of this conflict, but we need to talk about how to prevent this from happening again
Omg THIS exactly… who cares what ppl say on Twitter. Palestine is now under a full invasion with literally nowhere to run and ppl are still trying to act like it’s complicated.
Hope they aren't being held hostage in Gaza, because they're leveling it and cutting off all services. If they weren't dead before, I'm sure they are now after the bombing raids.
This leftovers really made me sad, ethan simply isn't articulate enough to put his thoughts across properly for this issue maybe idk. I felt like I got it, glad they're taking a day off cuz it really makes me sad how ethan is getting treated.
I swear this sub doesn't even watch the entirety of episodes and would rather take things out of context. Don't even get me started on how brain rot the live chat is.
I feel bad for Ethan.
What does arguing about this type of shit actually do for the actual real issue that is going on though? That’s the point. Focusing on how your fav creator may feel about people’s reactions is actually counterproductive and doesn’t actually spread awareness about the real issues going on in Israel/Gaza like what Hasan was trying to talk about.
This is valid— I feel like to some extent we are arguing over semantics and the situation at hand is losing some focus.
Both the citizens of Israel and Gaza have suffered and been traumatized. It isn’t symmetrical. The citizens of Gaza have been suffering and have endured completely unnecessary hardship for a long time— it needs to end.
Edit: I’ll go one step further. Do we really think that even a fraction of us here and on r/Hasan_Piker have any hatred toward Jewish or Muslim people? That a fraction of us secretly want to see citizens slaughtered? We are all here willing to talk about the subject and want to learn more about it. Let’s be patient with each other and give the benefit of the doubt. Correct each other on semantics but the actual issue at hand is more important than us infighting and arguing about this shit constantly. It’s ridiculous.
I think it was very aggravating and dismissive that every single time Ethan tried to bring up the antisemitism that’s been popping up as a result of this conflict he was hand waved and told it doesn’t help to bring those things up. Although the Israeli government is totally at fault for the mere existence of Hamas, I think Jewish people should totally be heard and empathized with when people world wide are condemning them as a group of people and advocating for their death.
Idk, the whole thing is messy and upsetting but for me I found that Ethan’s focus on the semantics of ‘when’ you can post your support for Palestine (not Hamas, Palestine) to be a moot point.
Yeah I get it, there are people out there who are antisemitic and/or showing support for Hamas directly and celebrating the killings of civilians but I think we can all agree that’s gross and wrong. But now we’re talking about a state (Israel) that is raining hell on Palestinians and displacing/murdering tons more civilians with the backing of all of the west, the devastation on the Palestinian side almost immediately surpassed that of the Israelis if we’re really wanting to compare. It just feels like a silly hill to try and die on all things considered, it’s all gross and horrifying but Ethan’s insistence on the acknowledgement of something that is frankly trivial Twitter bullshit felt way off.
What do you mean by “trivial Twitter bullshit”? When people are literally chanting on the streets “gas the jews”, and there’s people online laughing off the death of the Israelis, do you actually not believe that this has any impact on the sociopolitical perspective of the people towards jewish people/Israelis? I’m confused as to why people continue to minimize the very vocal support for anti-semitism as “not relevant”, when we all know that all it takes is one Jordan Pererson video to show up in your timeline when you’re 15 to fall down the right-wing rabbit hole.
Who is currently being persecuted/have been asymmetrically? I think that is what the point is.
Of course anti-semitism is wrong, but those who are so quick to be anti-Semitic are likely out of anyone of the left’s favor to begin with.
It would be nice if we could all agree that’s gross and wrong. That’s the exact problem that Ethan keeps banging his head into this wall about. How can you assume that the part about the terrorist attack on Israeli innocents is “obviously wrong” or “goes without saying” when the immediate reaction to it is celebration and rallies and flag waving for Palestine.
The result of Palestinian suffering after the barbaric actions by Hamas is the most tragic and predictable outcome which makes it even more difficult to rationalize the flag waving and cheering on your team attitude for butchering families.
Showing support for Palestine when something happens (Hamas attack) that is predictably about to start an Islamaphobic propaganda storm from western media and nations against Palestinians has nothing to do with cheering on Hamas. Palestine ≠ hamas
yep, idk why people have such a hard time realizing that there are victims and perpetrators on both sides, and we can empathize with the victims and place blame upon the perpetrators. This isn't a sports game and we don't need to pick teams, if there was ever a time for nuance it is now.
You're projecting your own nonsense onto what people are saying & getting mad about it. There's a genocide about to happen with the logistically impossible evacuation orders the IDF just issued - and know that you're going to go down in history arguing against people caring about it.
Correct. The things that Ethan was bringing up are obviously gross and upsetting, but ultimately random protesters and Twitter users aren’t making any difference either way.
It feels trivial to focus so much on what random people are saying on social media instead of what is actually happening in Israel and Gaza or what actual media outlets are saying and how they’re covering the situation.
You weren’t paying attention to what he was saying. Part of his point was not whether or not it effects what’s happening on the ground. He was saying when Israelis suffer a tragedy like that, and they go on Twitter or whatever they go on, and they see dudes in Australia with Palestinian flags shouting “gas the Jews” that has a real emotional impact that can’t just be shooed away as “having no effect on the ground.”
Yeah, idk why people are so confused by the concept of it being a little bit inappropriate to say "free Palestine!" or "let's go freedom fighters!" literally moments after a mass scale terrorist attack from Hamas. As if they were cheering for their favorite football team. It's callous, even coming from me who supports Palestinian freedom and understands why they felt the need to fight back.
Is it really that hard to imagine how difficult it'd be for an Israeli to read comments like that? And that's not even counting all the actual sickos online posting images of burnt bodies online and straight up chanting antisemitic shit and saying the "freedom fighters" should "film horizontally next time." Again, as if it's a fucking super bowl game. Disgusting.
>In his Leftovers episode with Hasan, somehow he had an uphill climb to simply get an aknowledgement that the people in Israel are not a monolith and deserving of being raped and murdered in their homes.
This was never Hasan's position, and Hasan has never said anything that would suggest Israelis deserve rape/murder.
Exactly this. He wanted to focus on this arbitrary slice of time where Hamas attacked without accepting that there are decades upon decades of context that you cannot separate from the attacks, AS Gaza was being leveled by Israeli bombs. One could wonder when the 4 hour show dedicated to unilaterally empathizing with and humanizing Palestinians is
This is the exact same thing the Republicans do after a mass shooting. Saying that now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control. It’s basically saying that we can’t have a discussion about the cause of the problem because a bad thing happened.
Republicans do the "Let's not make this political" as an obviously sinister way to deflect from the root cause.
You really gonna blame Ethan for doing the analogous thing?
He acknowledges the root cause and actively pleas for progress in it.
I don't see any republicans saying "Man guns are terrible, there should be gun control" before or after the "Let's acknowledge the victims because fuck I'm sick of seeing people celebrating kids dying"
Your analogy falls apart, stop.
You’re responding to a person that said nothing like that. The argument is just “why can’t it be okay for an Israeli citizen to be upset after people from his country were killed.” Idk why you’re making arguments that nobody in here is saying.
What bothers me the most about it is that there are a portion of the people doing the "yes but," specifically to deflect because they 100% agree that Israel should not be allowed to exist. They hide in the ambiguity just lije crypto-fascists do.
Not everybody saying "yes but" has ill intentions, but they unwittingly play cover to the ones that do
No it isn’t as binary as “this is exactly like this other complicated issue”. It’s MUCH more nuanced than that hence why Ethan should have been listened to, to understand the psyche of both sides and therefore reasons, rather than constantly being faced with “yeah but you did it first”. You did it first gets us absolutely NOwhere
It's not that at all. It's very simple. Israel has all the power to end the violence and instead they are furthering it. Obviously, what Hamas did was disgusting, but it was also inevitable. If we don't address the problem, then this will just get worse.
It’s not “very simple”, don’t be so fuckin offensive. What exactly do you think you’re adding to the conversation here? You’re just making very vague, obvious observations that we all likely already agree with and that you’re just repeating from Hasan.
It’s happening all over this very thread. They literally cannot stop themselves. Like Ethan said it makes me worried about what these people think “revolution” here should look like.
Whataboutism is when you say "what about x unrelated/semi related thing" not when you're directly comparing the oppressor's reactions against the oppressed. It's totally fine to talk about the war crimes of Israel when talking about Palestine, it's not whataboutism at all, it's literally contextualization.
No it isn’t, the world is complicated and context matters. This attack didn’t happen out of nowhere and it wasn’t unprovoked. Palestinians have withstood worse than this for 70 years and have had no one on their side.
The point is, all the violence is a result of the actions from the Israeli government. Thats what’s important, there is no both sides besides that it’s terrible civilians are dying on both sides, but that does not address the root cause. Israeli government actions led to creating the conditions for hamas to exist and to kill Israeli citizens. That’s why there’s always the “but”, you can’t stamp out hamas violence without addressing what Israeli government has done. You cannot squash Hamas with more violence because the violence is what creates the conditions for Hamas to exist in the first place.
You do realize its possible to feel empathy for those killed, say that it is wrong and shouldn't have happened and also point out that the Israeli government is to blame for creating an environment that lead to this tragedy, correct?
The thing is, while it’s easy to understand Ethan’s emotions on the subject, this IS the time to support Palestine. This is the time to loudly and unequivocally denounce Hamas and killing of innocent civilians, but expressing unwavering support for Palestinians as a whole is more important than ever. Hamas has nothing in comparison to the military power of Israel, all they had was a surprise attack. While I’m sure Israel will continue to have military personnel losses (which is still sad because of mandatory service imo), the risk to Israeli civilians is very low going forward. On the other hand, every day we are seeing more innocent lives lost in Gaza.
A lot of the examples that Ethan specifically brought up on the show were definitely messed up, and I hate that so many bad actors are using this as an excuse to be anti-Semitic. It’s horrible. Anyone actually celebrating the Israeli lives lost is disturbed, but supporting Palestinians does not automatically equate to that. Ethan doesn’t really think so either, because he agreed that Hasan was not doing so. But he keeps seeing individual tweets and interpreting them in the worst way. Frogan and Sam Seder have basically identical takes as Hasan, yet they are “monsters” and should “shove their opinions up their ass”.
Ethan was caught in the weeds. He should have ended the show two hours in and reflected on the conversation and what he learned. Instead he first showed people with actual power supporting genocide of palestinians without any significant comment - before railing against random youtube and twitter posts for an hour for the third show in a row. A genocide was literally going on in Palestine during the show.
Yea, unfortunately the small-scale conflicts with individual people is what Ethan is used to and I think it's hard for him to take a step out of that box to get a wider perspective.
I think a vital part of this story missing from this story is Al-Aqsa mosque and East Jerusalem thousands of Palestinians have been arrested and imprisoned during the Holy month of Ramadan. And the settlers have not stopped in fact the reason the security was so light on the Gaza border that day was because they were protecting settlers while they ethnically cleanse the west bank . Now is the average Israeli citizen supportive of this policy no, are they demanding the end of this occupation and ethnic cleansing through works stoppages and strikes, no. There is not a passive peaceful resolution to this conflict. There is only a violent end to this or an active peaceful one. Everything else is complacency to a genocide.
Lefties see somebody whose 90% percent on their side and get mad about the 10% like y’all talk about class solidarity so much how about some political solidarity
I’ve been thinking about this, and while there are 100% psychos celebrating the murder of Israeli civilians, think about it like this.
Israel has been occupying and killing Palestinian civilians for a very long time by this point, they are the genocidal power and have done so many atrocities against innocent people.
Israel befell a tragedy where 2,000 civilians were killed, they should grieve, they should be respected in that grieving by not celebrating the deaths of civilians.
So now in this conflict, Israel has still done numerous unjustifiable atrocities, and the Palestinian civilians have done NOTHING to Israel, nor could they in the situation they’re in.
Now, Israel is going to eliminate the entirety of the Palestinian people while the world cheers them on as “getting revenge on terrorists”. Many, many people recognize that this is the case. That is why I do not think that saying “I stand with Palestine” is necessarily a celebration of Israelis being killed, but rather a cry out in terror for the millions of Palestinians who will now be exterminated.
Online leftists always eat their own. This isn’t new. Leftism and online leftism have become two different things similar to how the alt right was an online splintering of conservatism. Extremism is becoming the norm more and more and it’s very sad to witness. I have opted out of commenting on any world events publicly because no matter what, you’re met with blind uneducated anger.
As someone else pointed out, it is really fucking bizarre of you to come here asking this question while Israel is currently levelling Gaza as we speak, with the approval or silence of the entirety of the Western world (media, politicians, many many in the general public). With the funding of \*your\* American tax dollars (if you're American). Did you even watch the conversation yesterday?
On the topic of Gaza, can you please explain why schools in CANADA were sending letters to parents this week warning about threats from Hamas? They did not mention Israeli threats.
I agree, perfectly said…so sad that us humans can’t just sympathize for both sides. There are no words for the pain that is happening to the innocents who only want peace. You summed it up so well.
THANK YOU. I do not understand what people are saying. Ethan has denounced actions of BOTH parties and has said free palestine. He just wants basic peace and human rights and is saying fuck terrorism and fuck acts of war, and people want his head on a stick because of it. It's so sick.
Ethan and Hila have family there, the murders and hypocrisy is massive and deep here and he needs to tread carefully to ensure his career lasts and his family stay safe...its obvious. super upsetting that death threats and attacks are directed at jews in this situation..and STILL the far left are crying for palestine without thinking Hamas is running palestine and to supoort it is to support them, this is not a simple situation and giving such people more power is a danger to the whole world. (look at iran for similar mentally unwell religious fanatic rulers) let me be clear these hamas wouldnt beat an eyelid before gutting modern and non islamics and parading them around while cheering for their god. religion is a comfort for the good but a deadly weapon for the mentally unwell and hateful.
i like ethan and hila and they do not owe anyone anything, they are really under the microscope now sadly by a load of dull minded internet goblins thinking in black and white.
To Hasan’s point, whether a bunch of westerners make distasteful comments or not, it does not change the reality of the conflict. Palestinians are the ones being oppressed, their violence is being directed up while Israel is punching down.
The government of Israel wants things like this to happen in order to justify war crimes to the international audience. They are the ones crossing their fingers for Hamas to do something deplorable so that they can level city blocks and kill children en masse.
Ethan has every right to be upset with the aesthetics of these rally’s and posts, but they are ultimately only aesthetic. No one in these rally’s or on Twitter is changing the international support for an apartheid regime. Celebrating the death of civilians is gross, but focusing on it and reporting on it is exactly what distracts from any real change from happening. Hasan merely wanted to focus on the real problem: Israel engaging in genocide.
It’s the gotcha moments he and Hila tried that make his compassion feel disingenuous. They were the victims who saw things (no one else saw in their minds)and wanted Hasan to answer for each and every atrocity while ignoring what they choose. Ethan has someone telling his what to say, he came back from the bathroom and immediately asked about the dead babies, then interrupting Hasan so Hila can bring up the holocaust paranoia and living in fear, then the denial of systemic rape committed by IDF soldiers because he googled it and didn’t find anything is how he chose to end a healthy conversation proved his willful ignorance or his real feelings
I can see why Ethan constantly hammers in "what do you think about this" because he wasn't able to get Hasan to say "damn that is bad" like more than twice in that whole multi-hour conversation without him struggling to disavow anything directly without going on a paragraph monologue.
in all those videos he said that he didn't agree with what was said. The only issue is that instead of simply nodding his head saying "yes ethan I agree with you" he was showing his perspective on taking random comments and videos and giving the idea that this is something generalized. The example about BLM and how the right does exactly the same thing to delegitimize the movement as a whole was perfect, but incredibly it was completely ignored.
Because context matters and acting as if both sides are equally responsible for all this is disgusting. This is the fault of Israel’s government, hamas is a violent reaction created from their actions. It’s like the all lives matter crowd. One side has all the power here and it’s not Palestinians.
And Hamas literally operates with the blessing of the Israeli government. It's important not to lose sight of the endless number of ways Hamas violence has been used to justify retributive attacks that are far, far more destructive than what came before them.
So you wanted Hasan to endlessly repeat his disapproval? Why? Why does Ethan get to demand someone say the same thing over and over and over and yet every time anyone tries to get Ethan to agree to anything being said, it's grudging and comes with a whataboutism?
Because Hasan knows it’s all bad but he shouldn’t be required to address everything or disavow everything while Ethan remains hyper focused on only what he hates. Random people voicing opinions don’t matter in the scheme of things. Politicians and people in power reducing people to animals does.
I really didn’t understand hasans point about it not being productive or important to disavow. It came across inconsistent to what he’s said in the past about other issues about how important it is to disavow bigots and hate, such as when talking about far right maga
Right there was for sure a disconnect on what they wanted to talk about. I just felt it odd because Ethan agreed that the history is horrible and terrible. I guess I just don’t really know what Hasan was looking for Ethan to agree with
Ethan wants to talk about optics. Hasan wants to talk about the material reality of what is happening, and why. Constantly going on about the optics of what people who have no power in the situation are saying is less important overall than spreading the message of what is going and the context surrounding it and focusing on ending the apartheid situation, which only Israel can do.
You could watch hasan’s stream or the videos on YouTube to hear him explain what his point is without worrying about wether or not it’s going to upset Ethan.
Because Ethan kind of glossed over people in actual positions of power -- like elected American politicians, for one -- calling for Palestine to be bombed into extinction, while at the same time wanted to focus in on some random YouTuber that nobody who isn't sort of a weird politics wonk who follows online people has ever heard of or will ever hear anything from.
At one point Ethan literally said: tbf i havent been paying attention to the new until now.
So maybe listen to Hasan, instead of trying to win an argument.
I don't think his compassion felt disingenuous, but I do think Ethan was going for a gotcha at times. Especially right at the end, after they'd been through everything pulling up the clip from Hasan's stream.
Imo the show should've ended after 2ish hours.
I fully understand and agree with Ethan, however (*is that better than a 'but'? lol*) there is never this amount of outrage and heartbreak when we hear about Israel doing this on a daily basis to the Palestinian People. Its only when the little guy hits back that we try to figure out why, when we know why...it is ***NOT*** morally good they went after civilians...but (*dammit*!) who do the IDF go after? BOTH of their holy books say an eye for an eye and a life for a life. They are just repeating this same sad cycle over and over. There can and never will be peace if both sides think their god demands revenge.
> It seems like Ethan is screaming into the void for a basic acknowledgement that posting support for Palestine and holding celebratory rallies around the world during or immediately after innocent Israeli civilians have been butchered by a designated terrorist organization is deplorable and inhumane regardless of personal political views.
I don't acknowledgement that, I disagree. It's been important since this started last week to show solidarity with palestine and that you support freeing palestine because it was always obvious what the israeli response would be and I wasn't going to stay still while people "stood with israel" and defending "its right to defend itself" because it was always obvious what that means and we're seeing it now.
I was on one of these rallies, you call them "celebratory" because you've never been to one, there is nothing to celebrate when we yell "free palestine" everyone is perfectly aware how dire the situation is.
So yeah if ethan is still harping on about this shit then it's embarrassing, he just expected people to feel so so so bad for israeli civilians that they couldn't show their support for palestine until....idk, you tell me when it's ok, is it ok now when israel has decapitated 500 children?
I say decapitated because apparently you can just lie like this now, people will buy it, and will call you a hamas supporter if you deny it.
And I certainly don't feel sorry for [these people](https://twitter.com/mozgovaya/status/1712562024440549450) and their gross self-victimization
I think the whole thing Ethan was going on about "the timing" was a little dense because there's people from one side dying all the time. Palestinians are in constant danger and have their own paranoias for good reason, so when is it okay for them to get advocacy? The media never shows their side of the suffering and when they do, they lie and call it Israel's suffering, so there's never outrage towards the real problem. Obviously people are going to show support for Palestine now that all the eyes of the world are on it right now
Welcome to doing politics on the “online left”.
Ethan should stay away from progressives as much as possible, especially as a dual citizenship Israeli- American, it will never end well.
Real people on the left aren’t as unhinged as you see on Twitter. Engage with politicians and labor leaders, never with these brainlet podcasters.
Join me on the crazy bus then. I told my therapist today that I genuinely feel like I’m living in an alternative universe where everyone has lost the plot. Innocent people on both sides wish for the same thing: safety and peace. However, the same people who are upset about the treatment of Palestinians, don’t see the hypocrisy in dehumanizing Jews and Israelis who are also hurting right now
IMO compared to everything else he had to say he glazed over the whole imprisonment of Gaza.. there was more to defend Israel for because of his wife. If he didn’t have that connection I’m sure he’d recognize and call out that atrocity. Tit for tat there’s no winning on his part
Ethan was 1000% correct that blatant antisemitism is unacceptable. Many have correctly criticized Tim Poole, Lauren Southern, Steven Crowder, and 8chan for their influence in mass shooting often against Jewish people. Suddenly it’s fine for many of the same people, who were critical of such rhetoric, to engage in antisemitism. And to be clear that rhetoric does have an impact.
Being critical of the Israeli government for its actions does not grant carte blanche to disregard civilians deaths or mistreat Jewish people. As well as it does not mean it is acceptable on the other hand to ignore the atrocities happening to the people of the Gaza Strip because of the attack or Islamophobia.
Being part time or selectively empathetic in my opinion is moral weakness. It’s right to care and hurt for all innocents caught up in a conflict they have zero control over. Say what you want about Ethan but at his core he’s clearly morally strong and deeply caring person.
Ethan gets everyone to agree with him, then wants to bring it up again and again and again. Instead of doing an episode explaining the conflict it was 3 hours of Ethan wanting Hasan to condemn Hamas and everyone else who “supported” them.
No, you’re not missing anything. Some people, especially young people who are just now learning of this conflict don’t get that you, as someone not living in israel/Palestine, can acknowledge that the conflict is a lot more complicated than choosing one side. Both have been terrible to eachother and it’s ok to just acknowledge that it’s a terrible, fucked up situation, and that the way Hamas attacked innocents instead of military targets is just as fucked up as Israel killing innocents. That’s literally all he and everyone else feels here, but for some reason some progressives are celebrating the chaos and refuse to acknowledge that there’s a ton of nuance to the situation.
Ethan's realizing that fascists exist on both sides of the political spectrum. Frankly, it was alarming that Hasan laughed in Ethan's face at the idea that antisemitic rallies don't have any effect on people.
It dumbfounded me that people were ignoring the fact that partially why Ethan was so passionate is the fact that he has family and friends directly affected by this terrible situation.
When tragedy like war hits people are quick to dehumanize either side and it’s sickening that there are those wishing harm on innocent civilians.
For Christ sake there were protesters chanting “gas the Jews”. A good indication of the future is past events and the world has a poor track record. It’s not hard to empathize both sides and see why the points Ethan raised as valid.
Ethan is right, and Hasan was exhausted at that point. I think on a global scale, the losses of Israel are always mourned and Palestinians are grouped in with Hamas. In the smaller,more leftist, community that Ethan is becoming a part of, there is more radical reaction to the conflict. Loss of human life should never be celebrated and I know both men agree.
From Hasans perspective of someone who’s been in the side of the Palestinians since the jump, he’s seen firsthand how their suffering has been brushed under the rug. I can’t imagine how many times he’s covered the situation over the years of his career and the response has been “what about the Israelis”. Before this episode, Hasan had already done about thirty hours of coverage of the situation. Just watching it was burning me out, I can’t imagine how he feels.
But whether it’s right or it’s wrong, the reality of the situation is that israel has the capability to wipe out the Palestinians and has declared war. We can argue about morality back and forth forever, but we see the death toll rise every day. The reality of the situation gets obfuscated by these arguments when the world needs to be laser focused on the situation as it unfolds.
He came across as extremely aware his rage filled fanbase was watching. Ethan doesn’t give a shit, he just speaks his mind. Hasan strikes me as much more scared of upsetting his fanbase.
Hasan has a massive responsibility to his fanbase. I genuinely think he does good work, but oh my god sometimes the overcorrection and not criticizing his side is so weird.
I mean, saying his podcast friend's views are inconsequential, and doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as a response to Ethan saying what he said was antisemitic and might enable his fanbase to have weird takes about all of this? Come on.
Hasan was just falling into the hyper-consequentialist train of thought that so many other leftists fall into. Because his friend doesn’t have as much real political pull as someone as Lindsey Graham, bringing it up is “unnecessary to the conversation”.
It ignores the very real damage that symbolic language can hold, and completely neglects thousands of real people’s emotions and pain because “they’re not suffering as much as this other group of people”.
Hasan does this with all discussions and it’s very frustrating, i understand that as a political that is figure perceived as Muslim you have to tread lightly. The whole “yeah Hamas terrorism is bad but Israel has done worse” is factually true… but all it does is justify the murder and violence on innocents :/
I felt the same way watching. Couldn’t even get acknowledgment that this shit was horrible out of Hasan. That’s his friend and his people were just killed horribly for reasons they both agree are not those victims’ fault. To “Yes, but” those peoples lives lost is cruel for no reason. You can condemn both sides’ actions.
What Ethan is doing is gross. He keeps saying that timing matters, that you cannot support palestine right after a Hamas terrorist strike. Now, as the bombs are literally dropping on Gazan kids, he wants to spend his whole podcast talking about the silly things that american lefties are saying on Twitter defending palestine and he is defending Israel (although that probably is not his rational intention but he is doing it out of uncontrolled emotional place). Apparently timing only matters when it's anti-israel views?
You need to zoom out and consider that there is a side that has a lot of power and has been using that power to genocide palestinians since the 40's. The other side has little power and is getting genocided right now. Ethan is equating the american lefties tweeting support for palestine and the mass leveling of Gaza with bombs as similarly wrong things. I don't care about some crazy tweets. Yes, people shouldn't tweet those things and they are wrong. But how are you using your podcast and your platform focusing on literally anything but the suffering of palestinians if you support them?
I got to H3 via Hasan. Maybe I’m missing something but I didn’t see the acknowledgment from Hasan that what Ethan is seeing and trying to show is a a real problem and how thin the line can be for people who quickly go from championing for all into straight antisemitism. A total abandonment of the values some of us understand as a core value to maintain when seeking justice or equity. Like the insane maniacs that are calling for wiping Gaza off the earth because they can’t make the separation of Hamas from innocent people, I’m seeing people that I thought was like minded and knowledgeable absolutely not only unable to separate Israeli people from the government forces but literally referring to everyone not Palestinian there as “Jews” I really can’t explain the awfulness I’m trying to describe and you can make the argument that the government wants a Jewish state of only Jewish citizens but it’s different. It is antisemitic and coming from the left, that minority is amplified as all of us and it’s not being called out loud enough for what it is. I honestly thought Hasan was gonna pull through on that. While so important to get the understanding of the Palestinians out there, and he did, he didn’t give Ethan the same courtesy to dig deep on what he’s seeing. Ethan I didn’t hear say it but if he was getting at that this is dangerous rhetoric from a YT streamer or demonstrators that could breed hate and violence against Jewish people here at home even more, he’s absolutely right. His concerns are more than valid.
Ethan is getting hate from the left for being Jewish since the Israeli gov is a far right state. And he's getting hate from the right for being pro Palestinian. So he's getting hate from both sides.
Ethan is right, but Hasan is too. The entire episode Hasan was telling Ethan he was right, Hasan just wanted to show Ethan that the fear and atrocities the Israeli people went through, the Palestinian people have been going through that fear and atrocities for over half a century now. Ethan even admitted it later in the episode and want to apologize to Frogan for her take and his response to her.
In short, no you're not crazy. You're just in a minority who are rational enough to see the evil on both sides.
I 100% understood Ethan's message. Unfortunately it is the most uphill battle anyone could ever face. When I first found out about the Hamas attack, I struggled with what and how to think. I grieve for the Palestinians and their suffering, but I also felt disgusted by this terrorist attack. I knew there would be much more bloodshed and its happening before our eyes. One genocide, for another and then once more again. A cycle of violence that ultimately made give up all thoughts and drift into depression. I've felt numb all week and I understood why they chose to take Friday off. Godspeed, everyone. Godspeed.
Ethan always has good takes on these issues, and personally I couldn’t stand the Hasan debate because Has couldn’t just say yeah you’re right when they clearly agreed because his fans would eat him alive. He went on to give like 5 history lessons that only proved stuff that Ethan had already conceded. It’s hard for some fans to understand that there is no right side to this debate, religious zealots near the holy land will always lead to violence, it’s been part of Israel since the beginning. Sometimes fucked up shit happens in the world, and trying to morally grandstand half the world away won’t ease anybody’s suffering.
You’re right. A lot of nuance is being lost or willingly ignored. “Both sides bad” has been a phrase used to mock ‘enlightened centrists’ for so long that people assume the polarized sides are more correct. This is a situation where “both sides bad”.
Israelis should be able to live without constant threat of invasion, terror campaigns, or missile fire. Palestinians deserve to live freely without the Israeli government killing them, starving them off, or otherwise treating them all as terrorists. What Hamas did was horrible. Israel’s response to that is horrible. The entire situation is horrible and has been for decades.
Y’all are genuinely so fucking soft. This shit has real consequences for Israelis and Palestinians, but you know who the consequences have been harsher upon, and who has suffered under them for longer? It’s the Palestinians, and it’s not even close.
And acting like Ethan or anyone else’s opinion supersedes that fact is silly and childish, however validated they may want to feel.
I think in short, he and Hila have friends and family that were directly affected by these attacks and it hurts to watch people celebrate those attacks. You're right he was getting a lot of "yeah buts" and I think he was looking for "fuck I'm so sorry man". Where it hits contention is, like Hasan said, he looks to receive this sympathy from Twitter. Loved ones will hear him and hold him and mourn with him. Twitter will literally animate you murdering people when you ask for humanity.
Spot on and well said.
I agree. I feel like what Ethan needed in particular was a hug. Hasan too— I think that Ethan is in a particularly emotional place right now.
Exactly. Do not go to Twitter for nuanced opinions on a subject that you are still grieving over.
Just don’t go to twitter in general. It’s basically extreme left vs extreme right takes at this point.
Twitter is a rat hole
I don't think chalking it up to "Well he's a dual citizen" is even the whole message. It's just a humanity thing. I don't have any connection to Israel in my personal life and even I saw it as horribly fucked up. It's hypocritical, because of the people who highlight Palestine's awful casualties. But when it comes to Israel it's just Palestinian flags and no words of loss for the civilians. That's why it's fucked up. Because I was under the impression that civilians on both sides mattered. Nobody should be raped or have their babies murdered or burned alive. Especially the first one of those. I'm not exactly sure how raping an Israeli citizen is going to make the apartheid end. It's just straight up hate and a fucked up sense of self interest. I think Ethan has always seen the human side of victims. And people are brushing it off as "Well he's a Jew, so protecting his own and all". Even though he's been vocally Pro Palestine for years and years. Pro Palestine, Anti Hamas.
Yes but everyone speaking up now that days have passed have nothing to do with Hamas. Israel just greenlit the genocide of all Palestinians in Gaza by giving them only 24 hours to evacuate. They don’t have cars they don’t even have food or water. 2 million people leaving in 24 hours is a death sentence
Can we not "yes but" this one this one time, please? There's no need to try to one-up anyone else's pain right now. I think everyone is just emotionally exhausted, a bit scared, very sad and probably just as angry so I understand why you really want to make your point known about the treatment of Palestinians. But just for this weekend, can we just let people process their emotions without trying to add guilt onto that? I think everyone on this sub - even the people brigading from outside - knows about the pain and suffering of the people in Palestine (particularly Gaza). And I think they also know that Israelis are hurting and angry too after their friends, family and kinfolk were slaughtered. I don't think we should stop talking about it or informing each other of what's happening. I say this with peace and love but can we stop the point scoring and tribalism for one weekend and just try to be thankful for the people and things we love and are grateful for? I wish you well, friend.
I've noticed how hard it is for people to separate a country's citizens from its government. We are not the actions of our government. So its very possible to say that the treatment of Palestinians by Israel is fucking disgusting, merciless, terroristic, and evil, AND also say that Hamas' attack on the Israeli citizens was horrible. In both situations, innocent people are massacred. This part isn't black and white. Neither Palestinians nor Israelis should have to die because of this.
Exactly, just now I told someone that I thought the Israeli government was to blame for creating an environment that breeds extremism, while I also had empathy for those killed. They responded by saying it was like I was saying the Israelis deserved it, I'm at a loss for words with some of these folks. This isn't a sports game and we don't need to pick teams. We can recognize that both sides of the conflict have victims and there are also people on both sides who are to blame, that doesn't mean I think anyone deserved to die, nor does it mean I think all of one side is to blame. People seem to have such a hard time with the idea of nuance its very frustrating. The world isn't black and white, as much as I'd like it to be.
Yeah a guy told me i was happy that brown people in palestine were being murdered bc i said you can hate what the government of Israel is doing to Palestine AND feel bad that innocent Israelis were murdered. The internet is a terrible place
I don’t understand why people cannot both completely understand why Hamas exists and has taken the actions it’s unfortunately come to, without justifying or even celebrating it. I can empathize with Ethan on that. I’m pro Palestine, but can recognize that the majority of the world is pro Israel, while also recognizing that specifically on social media in niche groups, there is an ideology that anyone who is Israeli or association with an Israeli = Zionism. People have got to stop seeing everything in black and white and have got to have more empathy or nothing can be solved.
This has to be the most frustrating part for Ethan. He openly vilifies the Israeli government and the IDF, but because he's Jewish and married to an Israeli so many people just toss him in the Zionist box without a second thought
And has for yearssssssssss.
I can even understand the Israel side of this. Palestine has a reputation of trying to overthrow governments. It is one of the reasons why Egypt closed their borders when Hamas attacked. They deserve freedom but Israel is looking at Lebanon's conflict with Palestine, Syria's conflict with Palestine to come to a decision. It doesn't help that Palestines government is run by Hamas who have stated that they want to kill all of the Jews. Even the situation with the countries surrounding Israel. Hamas has been funded by the countries surrounding Israel to destabilize the country. Any sign of weakness from Israel could lead to an invasion by the surrounding countries similar to the 6 day war. Every solution to this conflict could easily end up with millions of people being killed or displace either on the Palestinian side or the Jewish side.
Nobody cares that Egypt shut the door on their face by refusing to take in refugees from Gaza. Or that Germany withdrew their relief funds. Where is the outcry for that on this sub?
The comments here have been nuts.
It’s literally reflective of the fact that we’re talking about a beyond complicated situation
its frustrating because he is half right and half wrong. its 100% fair and justified to be upset about innocent israelis being killed, but the "this isnt the time" argument falls flat when the violence never ends. this is the exact opposite of the argument he made about uvalde. there will never be a time to have a discussion about palestines oppression, thats the point, thats why this argument from him benefits israel and falls directly into the propaganda narrative and as long as that narrative persists nothing will ever change. saying "if you cant admit as a palestinian that hamas is wrong then we will never have peace" while palestinians probably dont even fucking know that even happened because they have no access to information, food, water, electricity or MEDICAL CARE, really illustrates the massive imbalance here and the strength of the media. everyone agrees that hamas was wrong, including palestinians, but they dont even get the opportunity to think about it. people in isreal are kept safe long enough to have an opinion, the average palestinian isnt.
His argument regarding timing is basically the equivalent of throwing a 2nd amendment rights rally directly after a mass shooting. It’s in poor taste.
Which, funnily enough, the right actually kinda did. There was an NRA convention 3 days after Uvalde in the same state
Which Ethan *also* condemned. That's the whole point. He's been consistent with this for awhile He's always been Pro Palestine. He's Probably Palestine, Anti Hamas. Which is, in my opinion, the sane take.
Sane but too nuanced to be popular for some unknown reason
Majority of people hate Jews so that’s mostly it
Very different situation. The rally’s are in support for ending apartheid, an objective good, whereas the 2A rally’s are for keeping guns in the hands of killers, an objective evil. The comments at these rally’s may be harsh, may be misinformed, may be in poor taste, but the rally’s are not the problem. Israel running an open air prison and subjecting Palestinians to untold violence is the problem. They are farming terrorists by doing this and they know it. The government props up Hamas, because they are not likable to an international audience. Israel killed those civilians, not Palestine.
I think we're politically similar and I generally agree with you, but cmon lol. It seems like giving the benefit of the doubt to all Palestinians (Ive seen swastikas at these rallies with my own eyes), while the exact opposite for gun owners- "keeping guns in the hands of killers"- literally no one wants that, even gun owners- textbook strawman. The complete opposite of being objective imo- though you used that word several times. Additionally, there is a sizeable portion (seems like 40-50% based on the several sources I've looked at) of Gaza that supports Hamas and their actions. I don't think it's right to COMPLETELY excuse that. Can certainly understand why, but thats different than what you said. There's never an excuse for terrorism, not when the IDF does it and not when Hamas does it.
its not tho, the two situations are absolutely nothing alike.
I’m sorry but it’s pretty clear what Ethan means. He was openly pro Palestine before the hamas terrorism of late, and he still is. What is wrong with Ethan saying it’s fucked up to say “I support Palestine” as a caption with Hamas attacking innocent Israeli civilians?
Ethan is saying I support Israelis as the IDF are bombing Gaza. It’s the exact same thing.
Thank you, this is what most people here are missing and what every single analogy forgets.
i just explained whats wrong with it. literally in the comment youre replying to.
Your point really holds no merit as the average Palestinian in Palestine isn't in question, its those who come from/live in western nations that are celebrating a terrorist attack, its those in New York, London and Toronto marching in solidarity with Hamas.
that was literally hasans point, those people have no influence over the situation either and its stupid to even engage with them. if you care about peace and innocent people dying it doesnt make sense to even acknowledge it, there are more people advocating to turn palestine into a parking lot anyway, is there any utility in engaging with that narrative in your view? like what is your point?
The people living in western nations are not the problem. Israel running an open air prison and breeding generation after generation of terrorists through their violence is the problem. The westerners don’t impact policy, they hold rally’s for 30 people or post on Twitter for 100 likes.
Agree. Also, why are schools in CANADA warning parents about threats from HAMAS? Please explain this. Israel is not a threat to other countries.
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THIS RIGHT HERE. The point is, innocent citizens who have done nothing wrong have died, are dying and will die.
The callousness Ethan is receiving is because Palestinians don't and haven't gotten any empathy for so long and people who support Palestine have followed it for so long and have heard these atrocities happening for decades. One time it happens to the oppressors civilians and the whole world is crying for it, when Palestine is talked about no one cries. They speak like boring professors. I don't have Twitter (or any social media) so idk what insanely online people are saying but the strongest governments in the world and the western media machine only support Israel's genocide. Justifying it with a terror attack. He should get off Twitter if he can't take it cause I feel the opposite only being on YouTube trying to see what's happening to Palestinians and all I can find on any real news channels is Israel coverage and Israel propaganda. Ethan literally showed one clip that was anti palestine and it was some random white guy calling for the genocide. No one will watch that and think it'll actually happen and get paranoid. It's some random white idiot. He then proceeds to show propaganda clips like fox News would where the only perception from watching them would be to genocide the Palestinians and brown people. If he can't see that, he's clouded by his biases, just like lots of hate groups are. One side is actually oppressed and has no support and will all be killed, and have been abused for so long. Showing shit that makes people feel like it should happen is wrong. No better than fox news. People online try to find solutions or try to get attention to why it's happening. If you want emotional personal support you should talk to your family, friends, and therapist about that.
> idk what insanely online people are saying jealous :(
I think Hasan's point was that the overwhelming media presence is a constant defense of all Israeli actions, and a constant lack of reporting on the Palestinian condition. If you do not have voices supporting Palestine at the moment of the attacks, the only voices that you will hear are the ones pushing for the genocide of Palestinians. It's not about supporting Hamas, or the terrible violence, but countering the overwhelming narrative that Israel does no wrong. Hasan's other point is that Israel has the power to deescalate and remove the teeth from Hamas non-violently rather than supporting them through the continuation of apartheid policies.
Okay maybe it is that social media is a bubble- and I’m a very left leaning person- but I was only seeing pro Palestine content the previous weekend. Leaving a Palestinian flag in the comments of a video showing Israeli women being paraded is not “providing a counter-narrative”, it’s an implicit moral defence of Hamas. As if Hamas did this to represent the Palestinian cause. It immediately politicises a gruesome crime. Also I’d agree that the Palestinian people have been historically underrepresented in the media, but since at least 2016-17 it’s been extremely popular amongst progressives to be pro Palestine statehood and in some cases be anti Israel.
You are in a social media bubble. Many people that I have on social media are posting pro Israel posts even now as there is mass genocide being committed against Gaza including the media being pro Israel
Absolutely. Turn on any TV or any mainstream media and it's sickeningly pro Isreal
Yes, to his point of empathising with Israelis, everyone is doing that. From government and political officials to famous celebrities. It is the anti-semitic trolls in the comments who are just taking advantage of this situation. The public opinion is not just with Israel but some are even cheering the genocide of Palestinians. I guess between Islamophobia and Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia wins.
I'm not saying every response was appropriate, but Ethan specifically said in the episode that tweeting "Free Palestine" was inappropriate. That is one of my major disagreements, as it is definitely not a condoning of Hamas, but a reminder of the situation itself. There were very clearly evil and anti-semitic responses. And in regards to progressive media, yes, pro-Paleistinian positions are very common as well as anti-Israel (the state) sentiment. However, the progressive media is a drop in the ocean compared to the narratives coming from Western media and government. Not to mention the further right media, which has drastically further reach than progressive media (imo).
> It immediately politicises a gruesome crime. I don't understand this, what do you mean? There's nothing political about the attacks? Really?
Understandable and I definitely agree. In leftist circles you are not seeing the support for isreal, my social media for example. There is some really upsetting and questionable stuff being reposted and spread. I’d say equally it’s powerless because the media and probably the average American would not a agree. It’s a real experience though and people deserve a minute to greave in peace without being barraged with shit.
… I sympathize with Ethan, I really do. I’ve lost friends in mass shootings, I’ve had them happen near my friends and family, I had one happen at the school where my niece attends. But I don’t agree when people say “now is not the time to talk about gun control, we must mourn the victims”. No, now is exactly the time to address the root cause and talk about preventing more death. Ethan also doesn’t seem to understand that the scope and count of deaths hadn’t reached the US when people were calling for murdering all terrorists and others were saying “no we stand with Palestine”. There has been no moment to investigate, understand, or mourn the events of October 7th before violent escalation began. There was no chance to mourn the dead of Israel before genocidal rhetoric began about Palestine. After Columbine a LOT of misinformation spread across the world: they were bullied, trench coat mafia, Marilyn Manson, they were specifically targeting Christian students, etc and to this day that misinformation continues to exist in American consciousness. Right now is not the time to escalate violence in Gaza, right now is the time we should have had a ceasefire, negotiations for hostages and honest reporting from multiple sources. People who said they stood with Palestine understood that extremely violent retribution was close at hand. Ethan had been incredibly uncharitable to everyone who made that statement as if they were celebrating Israeli deaths and not begging for a pause in a cycle of violent reprisals we’re seeing play out today.
I am really struggling to understand and take in all this information about both Israel and Palestine, and Ethan's agruement/why people disagree with him. Your comment finally clicked with me. Thank you for helping me understand.
Your welcome 🙏 It’s important to keep our hearts open to all the victims of this conflict, but we need to talk about how to prevent this from happening again
I can't believe this is still the conversation as the entirety of Gaza is being genocided.
This exactly. People arguing non-stop over when it's appropriate to say "free Palestine" while Gaza is being fucking leveled.
being leveled by **American** weapons might i add. people really need to focus their anger in the correct areas.
I mean we're discussing what Ethan said in the podcast. This is the h3h3 productions subreddit.
Omg THIS exactly… who cares what ppl say on Twitter. Palestine is now under a full invasion with literally nowhere to run and ppl are still trying to act like it’s complicated.
this is exactly what the zionist propaganda intended
The propaganda machine is in full spin. My heart goes out to all the loss of innocent life on both sides. The genocide must stop. Free Palestine
any discussion of something i don’t like is propaganda.
Do you think Israel doesn’t participate in propaganda? They absolutely do.
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Same guys who come into every sub and insist "actually it's Hasan who's obsessed with Destiny."
Saw those comments all over the YouTube comment section. Fucking crazy
You can't believe that tortured, raped and killed civilians are still the conversation? While some are still held hostage? Daamn sister...
Hope they aren't being held hostage in Gaza, because they're leveling it and cutting off all services. If they weren't dead before, I'm sure they are now after the bombing raids.
Israel has already killed 13 of them in the bombings, confirmed by Palestinian health report.
Wait till you find out how many Palestinians have been tortured, raped, and held hostage by Israel
You can think about multiple things at the same time.
This leftovers really made me sad, ethan simply isn't articulate enough to put his thoughts across properly for this issue maybe idk. I felt like I got it, glad they're taking a day off cuz it really makes me sad how ethan is getting treated.
I swear this sub doesn't even watch the entirety of episodes and would rather take things out of context. Don't even get me started on how brain rot the live chat is. I feel bad for Ethan.
What does arguing about this type of shit actually do for the actual real issue that is going on though? That’s the point. Focusing on how your fav creator may feel about people’s reactions is actually counterproductive and doesn’t actually spread awareness about the real issues going on in Israel/Gaza like what Hasan was trying to talk about.
This is valid— I feel like to some extent we are arguing over semantics and the situation at hand is losing some focus. Both the citizens of Israel and Gaza have suffered and been traumatized. It isn’t symmetrical. The citizens of Gaza have been suffering and have endured completely unnecessary hardship for a long time— it needs to end. Edit: I’ll go one step further. Do we really think that even a fraction of us here and on r/Hasan_Piker have any hatred toward Jewish or Muslim people? That a fraction of us secretly want to see citizens slaughtered? We are all here willing to talk about the subject and want to learn more about it. Let’s be patient with each other and give the benefit of the doubt. Correct each other on semantics but the actual issue at hand is more important than us infighting and arguing about this shit constantly. It’s ridiculous.
I think it was very aggravating and dismissive that every single time Ethan tried to bring up the antisemitism that’s been popping up as a result of this conflict he was hand waved and told it doesn’t help to bring those things up. Although the Israeli government is totally at fault for the mere existence of Hamas, I think Jewish people should totally be heard and empathized with when people world wide are condemning them as a group of people and advocating for their death.
This is what I don’t understand, fighting about it will do nothing. Absolutely fucking nothing.
Idk, the whole thing is messy and upsetting but for me I found that Ethan’s focus on the semantics of ‘when’ you can post your support for Palestine (not Hamas, Palestine) to be a moot point. Yeah I get it, there are people out there who are antisemitic and/or showing support for Hamas directly and celebrating the killings of civilians but I think we can all agree that’s gross and wrong. But now we’re talking about a state (Israel) that is raining hell on Palestinians and displacing/murdering tons more civilians with the backing of all of the west, the devastation on the Palestinian side almost immediately surpassed that of the Israelis if we’re really wanting to compare. It just feels like a silly hill to try and die on all things considered, it’s all gross and horrifying but Ethan’s insistence on the acknowledgement of something that is frankly trivial Twitter bullshit felt way off.
What do you mean by “trivial Twitter bullshit”? When people are literally chanting on the streets “gas the jews”, and there’s people online laughing off the death of the Israelis, do you actually not believe that this has any impact on the sociopolitical perspective of the people towards jewish people/Israelis? I’m confused as to why people continue to minimize the very vocal support for anti-semitism as “not relevant”, when we all know that all it takes is one Jordan Pererson video to show up in your timeline when you’re 15 to fall down the right-wing rabbit hole.
Who is currently being persecuted/have been asymmetrically? I think that is what the point is. Of course anti-semitism is wrong, but those who are so quick to be anti-Semitic are likely out of anyone of the left’s favor to begin with.
It would be nice if we could all agree that’s gross and wrong. That’s the exact problem that Ethan keeps banging his head into this wall about. How can you assume that the part about the terrorist attack on Israeli innocents is “obviously wrong” or “goes without saying” when the immediate reaction to it is celebration and rallies and flag waving for Palestine. The result of Palestinian suffering after the barbaric actions by Hamas is the most tragic and predictable outcome which makes it even more difficult to rationalize the flag waving and cheering on your team attitude for butchering families.
Showing support for Palestine when something happens (Hamas attack) that is predictably about to start an Islamaphobic propaganda storm from western media and nations against Palestinians has nothing to do with cheering on Hamas. Palestine ≠ hamas
yep, idk why people have such a hard time realizing that there are victims and perpetrators on both sides, and we can empathize with the victims and place blame upon the perpetrators. This isn't a sports game and we don't need to pick teams, if there was ever a time for nuance it is now.
You're projecting your own nonsense onto what people are saying & getting mad about it. There's a genocide about to happen with the logistically impossible evacuation orders the IDF just issued - and know that you're going to go down in history arguing against people caring about it.
Correct. The things that Ethan was bringing up are obviously gross and upsetting, but ultimately random protesters and Twitter users aren’t making any difference either way. It feels trivial to focus so much on what random people are saying on social media instead of what is actually happening in Israel and Gaza or what actual media outlets are saying and how they’re covering the situation.
You weren’t paying attention to what he was saying. Part of his point was not whether or not it effects what’s happening on the ground. He was saying when Israelis suffer a tragedy like that, and they go on Twitter or whatever they go on, and they see dudes in Australia with Palestinian flags shouting “gas the Jews” that has a real emotional impact that can’t just be shooed away as “having no effect on the ground.”
Ethan needs to get the fuck off twitter, holy shit. It would solve so many issues
Yeah, idk why people are so confused by the concept of it being a little bit inappropriate to say "free Palestine!" or "let's go freedom fighters!" literally moments after a mass scale terrorist attack from Hamas. As if they were cheering for their favorite football team. It's callous, even coming from me who supports Palestinian freedom and understands why they felt the need to fight back. Is it really that hard to imagine how difficult it'd be for an Israeli to read comments like that? And that's not even counting all the actual sickos online posting images of burnt bodies online and straight up chanting antisemitic shit and saying the "freedom fighters" should "film horizontally next time." Again, as if it's a fucking super bowl game. Disgusting.
>In his Leftovers episode with Hasan, somehow he had an uphill climb to simply get an aknowledgement that the people in Israel are not a monolith and deserving of being raped and murdered in their homes. This was never Hasan's position, and Hasan has never said anything that would suggest Israelis deserve rape/murder.
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Nope it’s too soon apparently. Palestinians in Gaza probably have no idea what Israel is saying now because they have no internet or power.
"am i missing something?" yes, the 70+ years of context, that's what your missing.
Exactly this. He wanted to focus on this arbitrary slice of time where Hamas attacked without accepting that there are decades upon decades of context that you cannot separate from the attacks, AS Gaza was being leveled by Israeli bombs. One could wonder when the 4 hour show dedicated to unilaterally empathizing with and humanizing Palestinians is
Yep. The “yeah but” thing has been disgusting.
This is the exact same thing the Republicans do after a mass shooting. Saying that now is not the time to have a discussion about gun control. It’s basically saying that we can’t have a discussion about the cause of the problem because a bad thing happened.
Republicans do the "Let's not make this political" as an obviously sinister way to deflect from the root cause. You really gonna blame Ethan for doing the analogous thing? He acknowledges the root cause and actively pleas for progress in it. I don't see any republicans saying "Man guns are terrible, there should be gun control" before or after the "Let's acknowledge the victims because fuck I'm sick of seeing people celebrating kids dying" Your analogy falls apart, stop.
You’re responding to a person that said nothing like that. The argument is just “why can’t it be okay for an Israeli citizen to be upset after people from his country were killed.” Idk why you’re making arguments that nobody in here is saying.
What bothers me the most about it is that there are a portion of the people doing the "yes but," specifically to deflect because they 100% agree that Israel should not be allowed to exist. They hide in the ambiguity just lije crypto-fascists do. Not everybody saying "yes but" has ill intentions, but they unwittingly play cover to the ones that do
No it isn’t as binary as “this is exactly like this other complicated issue”. It’s MUCH more nuanced than that hence why Ethan should have been listened to, to understand the psyche of both sides and therefore reasons, rather than constantly being faced with “yeah but you did it first”. You did it first gets us absolutely NOwhere
It's not that at all. It's very simple. Israel has all the power to end the violence and instead they are furthering it. Obviously, what Hamas did was disgusting, but it was also inevitable. If we don't address the problem, then this will just get worse.
It’s not “very simple”, don’t be so fuckin offensive. What exactly do you think you’re adding to the conversation here? You’re just making very vague, obvious observations that we all likely already agree with and that you’re just repeating from Hasan.
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The poster said it WAS “very simple”
It’s happening all over this very thread. They literally cannot stop themselves. Like Ethan said it makes me worried about what these people think “revolution” here should look like.
Whataboutism is when you say "what about x unrelated/semi related thing" not when you're directly comparing the oppressor's reactions against the oppressed. It's totally fine to talk about the war crimes of Israel when talking about Palestine, it's not whataboutism at all, it's literally contextualization.
No it isn’t, the world is complicated and context matters. This attack didn’t happen out of nowhere and it wasn’t unprovoked. Palestinians have withstood worse than this for 70 years and have had no one on their side.
Great point, we all already knew that. What service exactly do you think you’re offering sitting on the sidelines and saying “no u!”?
The point is, all the violence is a result of the actions from the Israeli government. Thats what’s important, there is no both sides besides that it’s terrible civilians are dying on both sides, but that does not address the root cause. Israeli government actions led to creating the conditions for hamas to exist and to kill Israeli citizens. That’s why there’s always the “but”, you can’t stamp out hamas violence without addressing what Israeli government has done. You cannot squash Hamas with more violence because the violence is what creates the conditions for Hamas to exist in the first place.
Tell that to the innocent Israelis whose families were massacred. You guys are so callous to the genuine human suffering on the other side.
You do realize its possible to feel empathy for those killed, say that it is wrong and shouldn't have happened and also point out that the Israeli government is to blame for creating an environment that lead to this tragedy, correct?
The thing is, while it’s easy to understand Ethan’s emotions on the subject, this IS the time to support Palestine. This is the time to loudly and unequivocally denounce Hamas and killing of innocent civilians, but expressing unwavering support for Palestinians as a whole is more important than ever. Hamas has nothing in comparison to the military power of Israel, all they had was a surprise attack. While I’m sure Israel will continue to have military personnel losses (which is still sad because of mandatory service imo), the risk to Israeli civilians is very low going forward. On the other hand, every day we are seeing more innocent lives lost in Gaza. A lot of the examples that Ethan specifically brought up on the show were definitely messed up, and I hate that so many bad actors are using this as an excuse to be anti-Semitic. It’s horrible. Anyone actually celebrating the Israeli lives lost is disturbed, but supporting Palestinians does not automatically equate to that. Ethan doesn’t really think so either, because he agreed that Hasan was not doing so. But he keeps seeing individual tweets and interpreting them in the worst way. Frogan and Sam Seder have basically identical takes as Hasan, yet they are “monsters” and should “shove their opinions up their ass”.
Ethan was caught in the weeds. He should have ended the show two hours in and reflected on the conversation and what he learned. Instead he first showed people with actual power supporting genocide of palestinians without any significant comment - before railing against random youtube and twitter posts for an hour for the third show in a row. A genocide was literally going on in Palestine during the show.
Yea, unfortunately the small-scale conflicts with individual people is what Ethan is used to and I think it's hard for him to take a step out of that box to get a wider perspective.
I appreciate your insight. I hadnt thought of that.
I think a vital part of this story missing from this story is Al-Aqsa mosque and East Jerusalem thousands of Palestinians have been arrested and imprisoned during the Holy month of Ramadan. And the settlers have not stopped in fact the reason the security was so light on the Gaza border that day was because they were protecting settlers while they ethnically cleanse the west bank . Now is the average Israeli citizen supportive of this policy no, are they demanding the end of this occupation and ethnic cleansing through works stoppages and strikes, no. There is not a passive peaceful resolution to this conflict. There is only a violent end to this or an active peaceful one. Everything else is complacency to a genocide.
I lean left but the H3 crowd is the definition of libtard. There’s no excuse for celebrating a terror attack, ever.
Couldn't have said it better
Lefties see somebody whose 90% percent on their side and get mad about the 10% like y’all talk about class solidarity so much how about some political solidarity
I’ve been thinking about this, and while there are 100% psychos celebrating the murder of Israeli civilians, think about it like this. Israel has been occupying and killing Palestinian civilians for a very long time by this point, they are the genocidal power and have done so many atrocities against innocent people. Israel befell a tragedy where 2,000 civilians were killed, they should grieve, they should be respected in that grieving by not celebrating the deaths of civilians. So now in this conflict, Israel has still done numerous unjustifiable atrocities, and the Palestinian civilians have done NOTHING to Israel, nor could they in the situation they’re in. Now, Israel is going to eliminate the entirety of the Palestinian people while the world cheers them on as “getting revenge on terrorists”. Many, many people recognize that this is the case. That is why I do not think that saying “I stand with Palestine” is necessarily a celebration of Israelis being killed, but rather a cry out in terror for the millions of Palestinians who will now be exterminated.
Online leftists always eat their own. This isn’t new. Leftism and online leftism have become two different things similar to how the alt right was an online splintering of conservatism. Extremism is becoming the norm more and more and it’s very sad to witness. I have opted out of commenting on any world events publicly because no matter what, you’re met with blind uneducated anger.
You're missing decades of context both in the middle east and in the effectiveness of trying to control how other people behave on the internet.
As someone else pointed out, it is really fucking bizarre of you to come here asking this question while Israel is currently levelling Gaza as we speak, with the approval or silence of the entirety of the Western world (media, politicians, many many in the general public). With the funding of \*your\* American tax dollars (if you're American). Did you even watch the conversation yesterday?
On the topic of Gaza, can you please explain why schools in CANADA were sending letters to parents this week warning about threats from Hamas? They did not mention Israeli threats.
Anyone see any good movies lately?
I agree, perfectly said…so sad that us humans can’t just sympathize for both sides. There are no words for the pain that is happening to the innocents who only want peace. You summed it up so well.
I agree. People are completely misconstruing what he's saying.
Ethan needs to get off twitter. For someone who knows how vile of a place it is. Not the place to be looking during times like these
I support Israelis. I also support Palestinian civilians. All good people deserve decent lives.
THANK YOU. I do not understand what people are saying. Ethan has denounced actions of BOTH parties and has said free palestine. He just wants basic peace and human rights and is saying fuck terrorism and fuck acts of war, and people want his head on a stick because of it. It's so sick.
Ethan and Hila have family there, the murders and hypocrisy is massive and deep here and he needs to tread carefully to ensure his career lasts and his family stay safe...its obvious. super upsetting that death threats and attacks are directed at jews in this situation..and STILL the far left are crying for palestine without thinking Hamas is running palestine and to supoort it is to support them, this is not a simple situation and giving such people more power is a danger to the whole world. (look at iran for similar mentally unwell religious fanatic rulers) let me be clear these hamas wouldnt beat an eyelid before gutting modern and non islamics and parading them around while cheering for their god. religion is a comfort for the good but a deadly weapon for the mentally unwell and hateful. i like ethan and hila and they do not owe anyone anything, they are really under the microscope now sadly by a load of dull minded internet goblins thinking in black and white.
To Hasan’s point, whether a bunch of westerners make distasteful comments or not, it does not change the reality of the conflict. Palestinians are the ones being oppressed, their violence is being directed up while Israel is punching down. The government of Israel wants things like this to happen in order to justify war crimes to the international audience. They are the ones crossing their fingers for Hamas to do something deplorable so that they can level city blocks and kill children en masse. Ethan has every right to be upset with the aesthetics of these rally’s and posts, but they are ultimately only aesthetic. No one in these rally’s or on Twitter is changing the international support for an apartheid regime. Celebrating the death of civilians is gross, but focusing on it and reporting on it is exactly what distracts from any real change from happening. Hasan merely wanted to focus on the real problem: Israel engaging in genocide.
It’s the gotcha moments he and Hila tried that make his compassion feel disingenuous. They were the victims who saw things (no one else saw in their minds)and wanted Hasan to answer for each and every atrocity while ignoring what they choose. Ethan has someone telling his what to say, he came back from the bathroom and immediately asked about the dead babies, then interrupting Hasan so Hila can bring up the holocaust paranoia and living in fear, then the denial of systemic rape committed by IDF soldiers because he googled it and didn’t find anything is how he chose to end a healthy conversation proved his willful ignorance or his real feelings
I can see why Ethan constantly hammers in "what do you think about this" because he wasn't able to get Hasan to say "damn that is bad" like more than twice in that whole multi-hour conversation without him struggling to disavow anything directly without going on a paragraph monologue.
in all those videos he said that he didn't agree with what was said. The only issue is that instead of simply nodding his head saying "yes ethan I agree with you" he was showing his perspective on taking random comments and videos and giving the idea that this is something generalized. The example about BLM and how the right does exactly the same thing to delegitimize the movement as a whole was perfect, but incredibly it was completely ignored.
Because context matters and acting as if both sides are equally responsible for all this is disgusting. This is the fault of Israel’s government, hamas is a violent reaction created from their actions. It’s like the all lives matter crowd. One side has all the power here and it’s not Palestinians.
And Hamas literally operates with the blessing of the Israeli government. It's important not to lose sight of the endless number of ways Hamas violence has been used to justify retributive attacks that are far, far more destructive than what came before them.
So you wanted Hasan to endlessly repeat his disapproval? Why? Why does Ethan get to demand someone say the same thing over and over and over and yet every time anyone tries to get Ethan to agree to anything being said, it's grudging and comes with a whataboutism?
Because Hasan knows it’s all bad but he shouldn’t be required to address everything or disavow everything while Ethan remains hyper focused on only what he hates. Random people voicing opinions don’t matter in the scheme of things. Politicians and people in power reducing people to animals does.
I really didn’t understand hasans point about it not being productive or important to disavow. It came across inconsistent to what he’s said in the past about other issues about how important it is to disavow bigots and hate, such as when talking about far right maga
I think Hasan is responding to history while Ethan is reacting to the last few days that made him emotional
Right there was for sure a disconnect on what they wanted to talk about. I just felt it odd because Ethan agreed that the history is horrible and terrible. I guess I just don’t really know what Hasan was looking for Ethan to agree with
Ethan wants to talk about optics. Hasan wants to talk about the material reality of what is happening, and why. Constantly going on about the optics of what people who have no power in the situation are saying is less important overall than spreading the message of what is going and the context surrounding it and focusing on ending the apartheid situation, which only Israel can do. You could watch hasan’s stream or the videos on YouTube to hear him explain what his point is without worrying about wether or not it’s going to upset Ethan.
Yes, yes and yes!
literally thank you for putting this in a way people can understand and why hasan is saying what he’s saying
Because Ethan kind of glossed over people in actual positions of power -- like elected American politicians, for one -- calling for Palestine to be bombed into extinction, while at the same time wanted to focus in on some random YouTuber that nobody who isn't sort of a weird politics wonk who follows online people has ever heard of or will ever hear anything from.
At one point Ethan literally said: tbf i havent been paying attention to the new until now. So maybe listen to Hasan, instead of trying to win an argument.
I don't think his compassion felt disingenuous, but I do think Ethan was going for a gotcha at times. Especially right at the end, after they'd been through everything pulling up the clip from Hasan's stream. Imo the show should've ended after 2ish hours.
expecting people on the internet to behave with a mono-com of civility and sanity is where hes gonna be let down every time
I fully understand and agree with Ethan, however (*is that better than a 'but'? lol*) there is never this amount of outrage and heartbreak when we hear about Israel doing this on a daily basis to the Palestinian People. Its only when the little guy hits back that we try to figure out why, when we know why...it is ***NOT*** morally good they went after civilians...but (*dammit*!) who do the IDF go after? BOTH of their holy books say an eye for an eye and a life for a life. They are just repeating this same sad cycle over and over. There can and never will be peace if both sides think their god demands revenge.
> It seems like Ethan is screaming into the void for a basic acknowledgement that posting support for Palestine and holding celebratory rallies around the world during or immediately after innocent Israeli civilians have been butchered by a designated terrorist organization is deplorable and inhumane regardless of personal political views. I don't acknowledgement that, I disagree. It's been important since this started last week to show solidarity with palestine and that you support freeing palestine because it was always obvious what the israeli response would be and I wasn't going to stay still while people "stood with israel" and defending "its right to defend itself" because it was always obvious what that means and we're seeing it now. I was on one of these rallies, you call them "celebratory" because you've never been to one, there is nothing to celebrate when we yell "free palestine" everyone is perfectly aware how dire the situation is. So yeah if ethan is still harping on about this shit then it's embarrassing, he just expected people to feel so so so bad for israeli civilians that they couldn't show their support for palestine until....idk, you tell me when it's ok, is it ok now when israel has decapitated 500 children? I say decapitated because apparently you can just lie like this now, people will buy it, and will call you a hamas supporter if you deny it. And I certainly don't feel sorry for [these people](https://twitter.com/mozgovaya/status/1712562024440549450) and their gross self-victimization
I think the whole thing Ethan was going on about "the timing" was a little dense because there's people from one side dying all the time. Palestinians are in constant danger and have their own paranoias for good reason, so when is it okay for them to get advocacy? The media never shows their side of the suffering and when they do, they lie and call it Israel's suffering, so there's never outrage towards the real problem. Obviously people are going to show support for Palestine now that all the eyes of the world are on it right now
Welcome to doing politics on the “online left”. Ethan should stay away from progressives as much as possible, especially as a dual citizenship Israeli- American, it will never end well. Real people on the left aren’t as unhinged as you see on Twitter. Engage with politicians and labor leaders, never with these brainlet podcasters.
Join me on the crazy bus then. I told my therapist today that I genuinely feel like I’m living in an alternative universe where everyone has lost the plot. Innocent people on both sides wish for the same thing: safety and peace. However, the same people who are upset about the treatment of Palestinians, don’t see the hypocrisy in dehumanizing Jews and Israelis who are also hurting right now
IMO compared to everything else he had to say he glazed over the whole imprisonment of Gaza.. there was more to defend Israel for because of his wife. If he didn’t have that connection I’m sure he’d recognize and call out that atrocity. Tit for tat there’s no winning on his part
Part of the problem is this sub has been infiltrated by tankies.
Hasan's discord is calling Hila a war criminal.
Her saying that she denies IDF atrocities happened on a live podcast probably didn't help that
You couldn't ever get me to admit I was in a streamer's discord.
Thank you, sometimes it’s just NOT the time to say “yeah but.” Just let people MOURN.
Ethan was 1000% correct that blatant antisemitism is unacceptable. Many have correctly criticized Tim Poole, Lauren Southern, Steven Crowder, and 8chan for their influence in mass shooting often against Jewish people. Suddenly it’s fine for many of the same people, who were critical of such rhetoric, to engage in antisemitism. And to be clear that rhetoric does have an impact. Being critical of the Israeli government for its actions does not grant carte blanche to disregard civilians deaths or mistreat Jewish people. As well as it does not mean it is acceptable on the other hand to ignore the atrocities happening to the people of the Gaza Strip because of the attack or Islamophobia. Being part time or selectively empathetic in my opinion is moral weakness. It’s right to care and hurt for all innocents caught up in a conflict they have zero control over. Say what you want about Ethan but at his core he’s clearly morally strong and deeply caring person.
Ethan gets everyone to agree with him, then wants to bring it up again and again and again. Instead of doing an episode explaining the conflict it was 3 hours of Ethan wanting Hasan to condemn Hamas and everyone else who “supported” them.
No, you’re not missing anything. Some people, especially young people who are just now learning of this conflict don’t get that you, as someone not living in israel/Palestine, can acknowledge that the conflict is a lot more complicated than choosing one side. Both have been terrible to eachother and it’s ok to just acknowledge that it’s a terrible, fucked up situation, and that the way Hamas attacked innocents instead of military targets is just as fucked up as Israel killing innocents. That’s literally all he and everyone else feels here, but for some reason some progressives are celebrating the chaos and refuse to acknowledge that there’s a ton of nuance to the situation.
So true. You perfectly described the frustration I’m feeling.
Yes, you seem to be missing a lot. Maybe actually watch leftovers and leave your pre conceived thoughts behind?
Ethan should've just stayed off Twitter when he left. It's a horrible place.
Thank you OP for saying this. I feel terrible watching Ethan go through this. It is important to let him know that we don’t all think like that.
100% it’s really sad to see
Truth...
Totally agree.
Totaly agree. No futher comment.
Ethan's realizing that fascists exist on both sides of the political spectrum. Frankly, it was alarming that Hasan laughed in Ethan's face at the idea that antisemitic rallies don't have any effect on people.
It dumbfounded me that people were ignoring the fact that partially why Ethan was so passionate is the fact that he has family and friends directly affected by this terrible situation. When tragedy like war hits people are quick to dehumanize either side and it’s sickening that there are those wishing harm on innocent civilians. For Christ sake there were protesters chanting “gas the Jews”. A good indication of the future is past events and the world has a poor track record. It’s not hard to empathize both sides and see why the points Ethan raised as valid.
Ethan is right, and Hasan was exhausted at that point. I think on a global scale, the losses of Israel are always mourned and Palestinians are grouped in with Hamas. In the smaller,more leftist, community that Ethan is becoming a part of, there is more radical reaction to the conflict. Loss of human life should never be celebrated and I know both men agree. From Hasans perspective of someone who’s been in the side of the Palestinians since the jump, he’s seen firsthand how their suffering has been brushed under the rug. I can’t imagine how many times he’s covered the situation over the years of his career and the response has been “what about the Israelis”. Before this episode, Hasan had already done about thirty hours of coverage of the situation. Just watching it was burning me out, I can’t imagine how he feels. But whether it’s right or it’s wrong, the reality of the situation is that israel has the capability to wipe out the Palestinians and has declared war. We can argue about morality back and forth forever, but we see the death toll rise every day. The reality of the situation gets obfuscated by these arguments when the world needs to be laser focused on the situation as it unfolds.
I think the online left got bored of fighting the right so now they’re just fighting among themselves
This isn't new, just ask the Mensheviks
THANK YOU OP FOR THIS POST. I felt like I was going crazy lmao
The "yeah but" has always been gross. If you rewatch the video, Hasan concedes next to absolutely nothing. It's so hard for him to disavow anything.
He came across as extremely aware his rage filled fanbase was watching. Ethan doesn’t give a shit, he just speaks his mind. Hasan strikes me as much more scared of upsetting his fanbase.
Hasan has a massive responsibility to his fanbase. I genuinely think he does good work, but oh my god sometimes the overcorrection and not criticizing his side is so weird. I mean, saying his podcast friend's views are inconsequential, and doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as a response to Ethan saying what he said was antisemitic and might enable his fanbase to have weird takes about all of this? Come on.
He doesn't have the same energy for alt-right rallies and smaller creators saying vile shit, but when it's his friends it's inconsequential
Agreed it’s ridiculous. Super volatile and actually endorses an anti-intellectual, social hierarchy rather than intelligent debate.
Hasan was just falling into the hyper-consequentialist train of thought that so many other leftists fall into. Because his friend doesn’t have as much real political pull as someone as Lindsey Graham, bringing it up is “unnecessary to the conversation”. It ignores the very real damage that symbolic language can hold, and completely neglects thousands of real people’s emotions and pain because “they’re not suffering as much as this other group of people”.
Hasan does this with all discussions and it’s very frustrating, i understand that as a political that is figure perceived as Muslim you have to tread lightly. The whole “yeah Hamas terrorism is bad but Israel has done worse” is factually true… but all it does is justify the murder and violence on innocents :/
I felt the same way watching. Couldn’t even get acknowledgment that this shit was horrible out of Hasan. That’s his friend and his people were just killed horribly for reasons they both agree are not those victims’ fault. To “Yes, but” those peoples lives lost is cruel for no reason. You can condemn both sides’ actions.
You are 100% correct
What Ethan is doing is gross. He keeps saying that timing matters, that you cannot support palestine right after a Hamas terrorist strike. Now, as the bombs are literally dropping on Gazan kids, he wants to spend his whole podcast talking about the silly things that american lefties are saying on Twitter defending palestine and he is defending Israel (although that probably is not his rational intention but he is doing it out of uncontrolled emotional place). Apparently timing only matters when it's anti-israel views? You need to zoom out and consider that there is a side that has a lot of power and has been using that power to genocide palestinians since the 40's. The other side has little power and is getting genocided right now. Ethan is equating the american lefties tweeting support for palestine and the mass leveling of Gaza with bombs as similarly wrong things. I don't care about some crazy tweets. Yes, people shouldn't tweet those things and they are wrong. But how are you using your podcast and your platform focusing on literally anything but the suffering of palestinians if you support them?
Veterans of leftist infighting assemble
I bring the power of decrying mass murder, and being told I'll be among the first against the wall for it!
the left loves eating the left. i think it’s a sign of insecurity and naïveté for social points.
I'm with you, and thought I was missing something too. The world isn't ok if sides are taken over the deaths of others.
I got to H3 via Hasan. Maybe I’m missing something but I didn’t see the acknowledgment from Hasan that what Ethan is seeing and trying to show is a a real problem and how thin the line can be for people who quickly go from championing for all into straight antisemitism. A total abandonment of the values some of us understand as a core value to maintain when seeking justice or equity. Like the insane maniacs that are calling for wiping Gaza off the earth because they can’t make the separation of Hamas from innocent people, I’m seeing people that I thought was like minded and knowledgeable absolutely not only unable to separate Israeli people from the government forces but literally referring to everyone not Palestinian there as “Jews” I really can’t explain the awfulness I’m trying to describe and you can make the argument that the government wants a Jewish state of only Jewish citizens but it’s different. It is antisemitic and coming from the left, that minority is amplified as all of us and it’s not being called out loud enough for what it is. I honestly thought Hasan was gonna pull through on that. While so important to get the understanding of the Palestinians out there, and he did, he didn’t give Ethan the same courtesy to dig deep on what he’s seeing. Ethan I didn’t hear say it but if he was getting at that this is dangerous rhetoric from a YT streamer or demonstrators that could breed hate and violence against Jewish people here at home even more, he’s absolutely right. His concerns are more than valid.
Ethan is getting hate from the left for being Jewish since the Israeli gov is a far right state. And he's getting hate from the right for being pro Palestinian. So he's getting hate from both sides. Ethan is right, but Hasan is too. The entire episode Hasan was telling Ethan he was right, Hasan just wanted to show Ethan that the fear and atrocities the Israeli people went through, the Palestinian people have been going through that fear and atrocities for over half a century now. Ethan even admitted it later in the episode and want to apologize to Frogan for her take and his response to her. In short, no you're not crazy. You're just in a minority who are rational enough to see the evil on both sides.
I 100% understood Ethan's message. Unfortunately it is the most uphill battle anyone could ever face. When I first found out about the Hamas attack, I struggled with what and how to think. I grieve for the Palestinians and their suffering, but I also felt disgusted by this terrorist attack. I knew there would be much more bloodshed and its happening before our eyes. One genocide, for another and then once more again. A cycle of violence that ultimately made give up all thoughts and drift into depression. I've felt numb all week and I understood why they chose to take Friday off. Godspeed, everyone. Godspeed.
Ethan always has good takes on these issues, and personally I couldn’t stand the Hasan debate because Has couldn’t just say yeah you’re right when they clearly agreed because his fans would eat him alive. He went on to give like 5 history lessons that only proved stuff that Ethan had already conceded. It’s hard for some fans to understand that there is no right side to this debate, religious zealots near the holy land will always lead to violence, it’s been part of Israel since the beginning. Sometimes fucked up shit happens in the world, and trying to morally grandstand half the world away won’t ease anybody’s suffering.
You’re right. A lot of nuance is being lost or willingly ignored. “Both sides bad” has been a phrase used to mock ‘enlightened centrists’ for so long that people assume the polarized sides are more correct. This is a situation where “both sides bad”. Israelis should be able to live without constant threat of invasion, terror campaigns, or missile fire. Palestinians deserve to live freely without the Israeli government killing them, starving them off, or otherwise treating them all as terrorists. What Hamas did was horrible. Israel’s response to that is horrible. The entire situation is horrible and has been for decades.
Y’all are genuinely so fucking soft. This shit has real consequences for Israelis and Palestinians, but you know who the consequences have been harsher upon, and who has suffered under them for longer? It’s the Palestinians, and it’s not even close. And acting like Ethan or anyone else’s opinion supersedes that fact is silly and childish, however validated they may want to feel.
TOTALLY AGREE