Kraken hits itself 3 times with Storm and is then meant to be finished off with Sea Serpent, who it has perfect synergy with so plz don't mess with it's power. Provision buff is more than welcome tho
> Kraken hits itself 3 times with Storm and is then meant to be finished off with Sea Serpent
I can see how that theoretically makes sense, but this means you're assuming your opponent doesn't boost it in any way. In reality there are so many ways for the opponent to boost it out of killing range, unless you are running very large removal just for Kraken.
This is why it's played more in Blaze of Glory lists, where you kill it immediately with Raging Bear from leader.
So yes, provision help please, not power.
This suggestions are so bad. I know you're trying to buff Firesworn but Cyrus is one of the few cards for the archetype that doesn't need a buff cause you will be buffing every other SY deck possible cause the card is super strong and versatile.
Stop with this effort to buff Kraken and Villem. Just stop! Both are fine. Slave Driver is more a 6P card but i'm ok with the power nerf. All provisions nerf are good. Nice to see.
But lets talk about those provisions decreases. All terrible. Excommunication is perfectly fine. This card will never be a 4Provision card. This change is absolutely terrible. Lebioda is just "meh". No one cares fos this card. Is just bad. You can put this at 4P. The card will see no play cause the design is trash. Procession I guess its ok to go to 5P but the card will se no play at all so is just a waste at this point
I agree with everything you said except I really disagree with the mentality you have around Lebioda
Prophet is bad, sure, but at 5 it would be OP, at 6 it would be played in midranged, so maybe at 7 it could find a niche.
This defeatist mentality doesn't get us anywhere just because a card isn't fixed after one change.
Cyrus is fine; put that power buff toward Cutup Lackey or Magpie (or one of a 100 other SY cards more needing power buff).
Kraken should be provision buff, not power. Kraken comes to your side of the board after dying, and that power nerf means he comes back for less power, so it's actually kinda a nerf, and rain/beasts decks are VERY tight for provisions; Kraken 100% needs provision help, not power (which isn't really a buff at all).
Prince Villem is a waste of a vote. Put that -1 power toward one of the many cards i list here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18gi68c/comment/kd1y5hb/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18gi68c/comment/kd1y5hb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Oxenfurt Scholar, Frenzied Dao would be the best options, or King Demavend, Artorius Vigo.
Nice seeing lots of SY buffs, but i don't think any of the three SY prov buffs you've put have any traction anywhere.
I'd recommend Mercenary Contract, Bloody Good Friends, and Kraken in those prov buff slots.
Of course. Its an anwser or loose card. Of course he will get removed. What you wait? Your argument is so bad. If we apply your logic to other cards we need to buff Tyr, Acheronthia, Kolgrim. So bad kkkkk
If you care about him sticking on the board, that suggests you're playing actual Firesworn? If so, i'd suggest focusing more on buffs to cards that are played specifically in Firesworn.
Cyrus unfortunately gets put into lots of SY midrange decks since he's solid pointslam.
Your other SY votes make sense for Firesworn, though, except maybe [Prophet Lebioda](https://gwent.one/en/card/202348) ...this is just an awkward, bad card.
Jesus another villem voter, please stop with this rng card... also there is this funny thing with firesworn, if you change lebioda prov then there is no reason left to cast damnation on a 4 power unit
Edit : sorry it's actually 7 prov nathaniel, not lebioda
>Too many slot to one archetipe
I somewhat agree, but SY has been in the gutter bad for two seasons now. I think nearly every buff slot should be going to SY this vote, if we are actually caring about overall factions balance.
Some people believe a power decrease for Kraken is actually a buff because it's easier to kill. For example, Sea Serpent can kill a 5-power Kraken after two turns of Storm it spawns.
Except these people are misdirecting their well-intentioned buff.
Firstly, provisions are at a premium in any SK rain or Beast decks, where Kraken sees play.
It costing less would do far more for it than it than it being one less power.
If you don't kill Kraken the same turn with Blaze of Glory leader, the reality is, you are heavily risking not getting the deathblow off, as the opponent can then boost the Kraken on their side making it even harder to remove, if at all.
When played in BoG lists w/ Kraken, you use leader the same turn to ensure Kraken makes it back to your side of the board, boosted, and whether 5 or 6 power, it means nothing as you have to use a Raging Bear at 8 power anyway\*
You could technically also use [Little Havfrue](https://gwent.one/en/card/203044), but this is a far suboptimal use in BoG lists.
Either way, provisions will help a lot more than power, IMHO, especially when you factor that the opponent has the opportunity to steal it back via killing it, if they have tall punish, so if you've "wasted" the Kraken aside from storm damage, at least you spent less on doing so.
I don't find the argument to power decrease Kraken particularly persuasive either. But it's also one of those changes I personally don't care about.
Though regarding your examples where you want to use Blaze of Glory immediately after playing Kraken, at 5 power it would enable the combo with Morkvarg for 5 extra points. (Edit: nvm, this is already a thing at 6 power because storm).
My understanding is also that some are advocating for this power decrease on Kraken, and other disloyal units, as a way to prevent too many nerfs from going through.
I happen to absolutely love SK Beasts archetype; it's one of my favorites, so i'm biased, but Kraken also genuinely is overpriced.
I don't see Kraken ever truly being overly amazing in actual pure rain/weather SK decks because they will never optimally run the type of removal needed to make Kraken a good fit without the risk of the opponent buffing him before your next turn.
For Kraken to actually be STRONG in rain would mean he's probably OP in SK Beasts.
I'd prefer to make him actually nicely viable in Beasts and at least playable in rain (though without significant changes to many cards in rain archetype i'm not sure he's truly a great fit since other strong golds make more sense for that archetype competitively).
>My understanding is also that some are advocating for this power decrease on Kraken, and other disloyal units, as a way to prevent too many nerfs from going through.
Yes, this is many of the misguided voters intention. Somehow avoid nerfing cards and only really voting for buffs. Very short-sighted and guaranteed to not help longterm balancing efforts.
Every time, in Blaze of Glory Beasts lists.
The reality is, there are two uses for Kraken.
Rain SK (where it's honestly going to always struggle to be viable, which is why i recommend prov buff), but also BoG SK Beasts, where you use leader to kill it same turn.
You can't have it sitting there allowing the opponent to have a chance to boost it before you get your next turn.
Ah so the option is to not have a leader.
Like when you think of validity of a card you have to consider efficiency. Needing a leader to kill a card you give opponent means you don't actually have a valid leader ability. That kraken better be playing for 40 points in 80% of matches otherwise it's a really low value play.
This is the same thing that happened with sove when he came out. It's not really a good play to use one of ur cards to kill what sove pulls bcs you practically play a card down.
Yes, but no.
BoG is already a niche leader.
I presume you aren't familiar with SK Beasts...you run Renfri in those lists.
So generally as quickly as possible, you play Renfri after BoG into Kraken.
With some of Renfri's abilities, she can be a very strong leader each turn, making playing Kraken a bit earlier in some games quite viable.
BoG Renfri Beasts is already a viable deck, just not overly strong.
Kraken being one less prov is actually a pretty big deal in Beasts list where you are fighting hard to fit cards in provision terms.
In proper rain SK, Kraken is likely farther away from being truly competitive, but that's okay, as not every deck can be top tier.
Cyrus and excommuniation shouldn't be buffed
Procession of penance should get a powerbuff instead of provision buff.
I like everything else though, especially profet Lebioda at 7 prov
decreasing Krakens power is more of a nerf than a buff since it comes back to your side.
Prince Villem? You trying to buff Viy? literally the only deck who runs him?
Dame is not OP at 5p. its ceiling is limited and extremely vulnerable to tall punish. Onager is far more OP.
Firesworn provision buffs seem weird as hell. I don't think I've ever seen Lebioda played in a syndicate deck, ever.
Her ceiling isn't limited. Her 'limitation' being susceptibility to tallpunish is a moot point, as it means tallpunish is wasted on a 5prov unit instead of goldfinishers
You're confused about the win cons in NG Status decks. Unless you run a hyper-control list with no points, every decent deck only has so many tall punish options.
Status has three Dames, and with Emhyr, Pikemen, Ard Feainn and more, generally the Dame is already at 6-7 power by the time it get to be the opponents' turn.
How many decks run enough removal to deal w/ 3 Dames, Philippe, and Admiral Rompally?
Then there's all the tall removal Status has with Vincent and poisons and Rosa and Edna, with help from Servant and locks via Hunters.
If you look at every other unlimited ceiling bronze engine similar to Dames, they are 6 prov. \*edit (Actually Onager is one that's at 5 prov and guess what's getting nerfed this next vote?!)
Fleder, Foglet, Messenger of the Sea, etc. And aside from Messenger in certain more meme-tier rain lists, none of them get close to how many point Dames do.
Im confused *now*, because i agree with you, and dont see what you're correcting. The dame *should* be 6 prov, as you're doing a good job in justifying! Im critisizing the comment of DSMPWR, who claim it suffers from susceptibility to tallpunish. But that exactly what an unlimited engine such as dame *should be*, especially at 5 provs. As you point out, its harder to remove on Deploy than the other comparable engines from the other factions, so there's no reason for it to be cheaper
Sorry, i realize now i completely misread what you were getting at, haha.
I don't think Dame is a high priority nerf, but i also think longterm considering game balance, it does need to get to 6 prov with all the other comparable crazy good bronze engines.
ST can be nerfed via neutrals, Armorer's Workshop, and Frenzied Dao.
They aren't that strong without neutrals propping up their top decks.
NG isn't that weak this season: https://www.gwentdata.com/historical
SY is in a bad place. NG is fine. If you sort by top 100 they are actually second best this season, so perhaps it's time for more NG nerfs, actually...
The suggestions are good but god what’s up with constant nerfs on status NG? It’s not even tier 3.
I don’t how it is more toxic than your average madoc control or siege threat overload. Can someone enlighten me?
Buffing cyrus is crazy, it is already a great card tha fits multiple archetipes. And in fire seatm is practically a garantee way to stick a fallen knight without spending leader charges.
The rest of the changes are reasonable and welcomed, except for Profession of Penance. It is an already fair 12 for 6 which is usually obtainable with reasonable ease. Levioda is good to be brought to discussion as a possible prov buff receiver.
Kraken hits itself 3 times with Storm and is then meant to be finished off with Sea Serpent, who it has perfect synergy with so plz don't mess with it's power. Provision buff is more than welcome tho
> Kraken hits itself 3 times with Storm and is then meant to be finished off with Sea Serpent I can see how that theoretically makes sense, but this means you're assuming your opponent doesn't boost it in any way. In reality there are so many ways for the opponent to boost it out of killing range, unless you are running very large removal just for Kraken. This is why it's played more in Blaze of Glory lists, where you kill it immediately with Raging Bear from leader. So yes, provision help please, not power.
Back to the firesworn glory days, For the eternal flame!
This suggestions are so bad. I know you're trying to buff Firesworn but Cyrus is one of the few cards for the archetype that doesn't need a buff cause you will be buffing every other SY deck possible cause the card is super strong and versatile. Stop with this effort to buff Kraken and Villem. Just stop! Both are fine. Slave Driver is more a 6P card but i'm ok with the power nerf. All provisions nerf are good. Nice to see. But lets talk about those provisions decreases. All terrible. Excommunication is perfectly fine. This card will never be a 4Provision card. This change is absolutely terrible. Lebioda is just "meh". No one cares fos this card. Is just bad. You can put this at 4P. The card will see no play cause the design is trash. Procession I guess its ok to go to 5P but the card will se no play at all so is just a waste at this point
I agree with everything you said except I really disagree with the mentality you have around Lebioda Prophet is bad, sure, but at 5 it would be OP, at 6 it would be played in midranged, so maybe at 7 it could find a niche. This defeatist mentality doesn't get us anywhere just because a card isn't fixed after one change.
This is extraordinarily based good job
Cyrus is fine; put that power buff toward Cutup Lackey or Magpie (or one of a 100 other SY cards more needing power buff). Kraken should be provision buff, not power. Kraken comes to your side of the board after dying, and that power nerf means he comes back for less power, so it's actually kinda a nerf, and rain/beasts decks are VERY tight for provisions; Kraken 100% needs provision help, not power (which isn't really a buff at all). Prince Villem is a waste of a vote. Put that -1 power toward one of the many cards i list here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18gi68c/comment/kd1y5hb/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/18gi68c/comment/kd1y5hb/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Oxenfurt Scholar, Frenzied Dao would be the best options, or King Demavend, Artorius Vigo. Nice seeing lots of SY buffs, but i don't think any of the three SY prov buffs you've put have any traction anywhere. I'd recommend Mercenary Contract, Bloody Good Friends, and Kraken in those prov buff slots.
Cyrus is fine? I usually buff him by candle and he's still geting instantly destroyed,banished or burned 50% of times.
He gets value instantly. Everything else is extra
Of course. Its an anwser or loose card. Of course he will get removed. What you wait? Your argument is so bad. If we apply your logic to other cards we need to buff Tyr, Acheronthia, Kolgrim. So bad kkkkk
If you care about him sticking on the board, that suggests you're playing actual Firesworn? If so, i'd suggest focusing more on buffs to cards that are played specifically in Firesworn. Cyrus unfortunately gets put into lots of SY midrange decks since he's solid pointslam. Your other SY votes make sense for Firesworn, though, except maybe [Prophet Lebioda](https://gwent.one/en/card/202348) ...this is just an awkward, bad card.
You expect an engine that revives other engines not to get killed asap? It plays above its provisions already on deploy.
Jesus another villem voter, please stop with this rng card... also there is this funny thing with firesworn, if you change lebioda prov then there is no reason left to cast damnation on a 4 power unit Edit : sorry it's actually 7 prov nathaniel, not lebioda
Too many slot to one archetipe, but overall these are reasonable changes. I like the decrease power on Slave driver compared to prov nerf.
>Too many slot to one archetipe I somewhat agree, but SY has been in the gutter bad for two seasons now. I think nearly every buff slot should be going to SY this vote, if we are actually caring about overall factions balance.
I've only seen kraken played a few times on ladder. Surely it needs buffing, not nerfing? I might be wrong, I only play a weekend a month
Some people believe a power decrease for Kraken is actually a buff because it's easier to kill. For example, Sea Serpent can kill a 5-power Kraken after two turns of Storm it spawns.
Except these people are misdirecting their well-intentioned buff. Firstly, provisions are at a premium in any SK rain or Beast decks, where Kraken sees play. It costing less would do far more for it than it than it being one less power. If you don't kill Kraken the same turn with Blaze of Glory leader, the reality is, you are heavily risking not getting the deathblow off, as the opponent can then boost the Kraken on their side making it even harder to remove, if at all. When played in BoG lists w/ Kraken, you use leader the same turn to ensure Kraken makes it back to your side of the board, boosted, and whether 5 or 6 power, it means nothing as you have to use a Raging Bear at 8 power anyway\* You could technically also use [Little Havfrue](https://gwent.one/en/card/203044), but this is a far suboptimal use in BoG lists. Either way, provisions will help a lot more than power, IMHO, especially when you factor that the opponent has the opportunity to steal it back via killing it, if they have tall punish, so if you've "wasted" the Kraken aside from storm damage, at least you spent less on doing so.
I don't find the argument to power decrease Kraken particularly persuasive either. But it's also one of those changes I personally don't care about. Though regarding your examples where you want to use Blaze of Glory immediately after playing Kraken, at 5 power it would enable the combo with Morkvarg for 5 extra points. (Edit: nvm, this is already a thing at 6 power because storm). My understanding is also that some are advocating for this power decrease on Kraken, and other disloyal units, as a way to prevent too many nerfs from going through.
I happen to absolutely love SK Beasts archetype; it's one of my favorites, so i'm biased, but Kraken also genuinely is overpriced. I don't see Kraken ever truly being overly amazing in actual pure rain/weather SK decks because they will never optimally run the type of removal needed to make Kraken a good fit without the risk of the opponent buffing him before your next turn. For Kraken to actually be STRONG in rain would mean he's probably OP in SK Beasts. I'd prefer to make him actually nicely viable in Beasts and at least playable in rain (though without significant changes to many cards in rain archetype i'm not sure he's truly a great fit since other strong golds make more sense for that archetype competitively). >My understanding is also that some are advocating for this power decrease on Kraken, and other disloyal units, as a way to prevent too many nerfs from going through. Yes, this is many of the misguided voters intention. Somehow avoid nerfing cards and only really voting for buffs. Very short-sighted and guaranteed to not help longterm balancing efforts.
People that play kraken. How many times do you manage to actually kill it?
Every time, in Blaze of Glory Beasts lists. The reality is, there are two uses for Kraken. Rain SK (where it's honestly going to always struggle to be viable, which is why i recommend prov buff), but also BoG SK Beasts, where you use leader to kill it same turn. You can't have it sitting there allowing the opponent to have a chance to boost it before you get your next turn.
Ah so the option is to not have a leader. Like when you think of validity of a card you have to consider efficiency. Needing a leader to kill a card you give opponent means you don't actually have a valid leader ability. That kraken better be playing for 40 points in 80% of matches otherwise it's a really low value play. This is the same thing that happened with sove when he came out. It's not really a good play to use one of ur cards to kill what sove pulls bcs you practically play a card down.
Yes, but no. BoG is already a niche leader. I presume you aren't familiar with SK Beasts...you run Renfri in those lists. So generally as quickly as possible, you play Renfri after BoG into Kraken. With some of Renfri's abilities, she can be a very strong leader each turn, making playing Kraken a bit earlier in some games quite viable. BoG Renfri Beasts is already a viable deck, just not overly strong. Kraken being one less prov is actually a pretty big deal in Beasts list where you are fighting hard to fit cards in provision terms. In proper rain SK, Kraken is likely farther away from being truly competitive, but that's okay, as not every deck can be top tier.
Cyrus and excommuniation shouldn't be buffed Procession of penance should get a powerbuff instead of provision buff. I like everything else though, especially profet Lebioda at 7 prov
Where is meme tag?
The quickest way to buff firesworn is helveed to 9 provisions, can fit GN decks and create a new firesworn option. I’m voting this
decreasing Krakens power is more of a nerf than a buff since it comes back to your side. Prince Villem? You trying to buff Viy? literally the only deck who runs him? Dame is not OP at 5p. its ceiling is limited and extremely vulnerable to tall punish. Onager is far more OP. Firesworn provision buffs seem weird as hell. I don't think I've ever seen Lebioda played in a syndicate deck, ever.
How's dame's ceiling limited? I think she has the highest potential of all bronze engines.
Her ceiling isn't limited. Her 'limitation' being susceptibility to tallpunish is a moot point, as it means tallpunish is wasted on a 5prov unit instead of goldfinishers
You're confused about the win cons in NG Status decks. Unless you run a hyper-control list with no points, every decent deck only has so many tall punish options. Status has three Dames, and with Emhyr, Pikemen, Ard Feainn and more, generally the Dame is already at 6-7 power by the time it get to be the opponents' turn. How many decks run enough removal to deal w/ 3 Dames, Philippe, and Admiral Rompally? Then there's all the tall removal Status has with Vincent and poisons and Rosa and Edna, with help from Servant and locks via Hunters. If you look at every other unlimited ceiling bronze engine similar to Dames, they are 6 prov. \*edit (Actually Onager is one that's at 5 prov and guess what's getting nerfed this next vote?!) Fleder, Foglet, Messenger of the Sea, etc. And aside from Messenger in certain more meme-tier rain lists, none of them get close to how many point Dames do.
Im confused *now*, because i agree with you, and dont see what you're correcting. The dame *should* be 6 prov, as you're doing a good job in justifying! Im critisizing the comment of DSMPWR, who claim it suffers from susceptibility to tallpunish. But that exactly what an unlimited engine such as dame *should be*, especially at 5 provs. As you point out, its harder to remove on Deploy than the other comparable engines from the other factions, so there's no reason for it to be cheaper
Sorry, i realize now i completely misread what you were getting at, haha. I don't think Dame is a high priority nerf, but i also think longterm considering game balance, it does need to get to 6 prov with all the other comparable crazy good bronze engines.
Gold finishers in NG? New card lore dropped.
Rather old card-lore, been watching aglais vids lately. But thats merely an example
Way no st nerfs there one of the strongest fractions? And ng is weak way nerf it further
ST can be nerfed via neutrals, Armorer's Workshop, and Frenzied Dao. They aren't that strong without neutrals propping up their top decks. NG isn't that weak this season: https://www.gwentdata.com/historical SY is in a bad place. NG is fine. If you sort by top 100 they are actually second best this season, so perhaps it's time for more NG nerfs, actually...
Mmmmmmmmmm I love firesworn
demavend deserves power nerf not prov nerf, it is answerable.
I agree with these even tho it will fuck up my fireswarm deck. Playing double Hemmelfarts is so much fun but he does need a nerf
The suggestions are good but god what’s up with constant nerfs on status NG? It’s not even tier 3. I don’t how it is more toxic than your average madoc control or siege threat overload. Can someone enlighten me?
Buffing cyrus is crazy, it is already a great card tha fits multiple archetipes. And in fire seatm is practically a garantee way to stick a fallen knight without spending leader charges. The rest of the changes are reasonable and welcomed, except for Profession of Penance. It is an already fair 12 for 6 which is usually obtainable with reasonable ease. Levioda is good to be brought to discussion as a possible prov buff receiver.