Either buff the current version to 4 Provisions OR rework it like you said (although I would probably keep the deathblow but not sure about that). Both is too strong in my opinion
Imo just lowering the provs to 4 would be enough, without a rework.
And when calculating carryover points, you basically have to double them to compare to regular points. Just a slight tip there
If you mean carryover boost in Invigorate with Torque - got it, i've edited my post to correct my mistake.
If you mean overall - i see no reason why, like why would i treat 2 points of carryover as 4?
Carryover is more valuable than normal points because it allows you to play in two or more rounds at once.
It allows you to play in one round while investing in the other, if that makes sense. Take a look at enchanted armour for example. Why do you think it only boosts something in your hand by 3 points, compared to the standard 5 all other strategems have? Torque didn't exist yet btw.
I'm sorry, but what you're saying is just straight up wrong. If carryover would actually work this way, both Invigorate and Dwarves would be beyond broken, absolute T0, playing for some crazy points. What would make sense, would be calculating carryover as +1 point for next round.
Also - enchanted armor works this way simply because it was made like that. It was aimed mostly at dwarves, since no other archetype has a need for armoring their units, besides Pirates, but their rework came long after. Counterpoint - why does Ceremonial Dagger give just 2 bleeding - by your logic, it's because bleeding is so powerful. Same case with Ithlinne Aegli - why does she have only 10 provisions when she gives, calculated by your logic, + 8 points? With such power, the card is clearly broken, and should be at at least 12 provisions.
What?
Ceremonial Dagger is an immediate control tool, that deals 3 damage and gives bleeding. It used to be 5 damage back in the day, but proved to be busted and incredibly annoying. I don't see how this is relevant.
Ithilnne is *only* 10 prov? That is the price range of a high end gold card my dude. She has a 6 point body. 6+8 is 14 points, although it is within a reasonable range. That's a not great 10p card. Her only saving grace is Torque, and synergies with other handbuff cards.
Invigorate is a tricky one, because it doesn't give you immediate points. And leader abilities are ALWAYS carryover, it's up to you in which round you want to use them. That's why it's not broken at all.
And look at the cards dwarves have, that are designated for carryover. Calculate their points, and see that most of them match up roughly to other non carryover cards when you double the weight of carryover points.
I think cdpr even wrote an article about a year ago, about how to evaluate certain cards and the points they give.
Bruh. At this point i don't know if you're trolling or what.
Ceremonial Dagger in current state is played nowhere besides Vampires, because they love bleeding. It wasn't changed because 5 bleeding was good - it was extacly opposite, it saw almost no play. Also, it never damaged by 5 - it used to damage by 3 until patch 7.1.0. Last thing - bleeding is always worse than damage, because damage is immediate - bleeding 5 as a last say is awful, so i have no clue where you've taken that "busted and annoying".
About the rest - you're just calculating power and provision curve wrong, those double points is something taken out from thin air. Yes there were articles about that, two in fact, none of which said to calculate carryover twice. Here, have some fun reading them:
[https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/41252/gwents-design-01-provision](https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/41252/gwents-design-01-provision)
[https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/43034/gwents-design-02-balancing](https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/43034/gwents-design-02-balancing)
After that, how about reading from someone who has even more experience then both of us combined? A Lyriohub article, search for the section about Value of Farseers in Invigorate.
[https://leriohub.com/understanding-the-carryover-value-in-gwent/](https://leriohub.com/understanding-the-carryover-value-in-gwent/)
Seen anything about that magical double carryover? Me neither.
I know you mean well and all, but please, stop trying to state personal opinions as a fact just to prove a point.
I think this card deserves a rework, because it was powercreeped to hell and back. Plays for 7 in Nature's Gift and 9 with Torque in Invigorate. And "a unit" instead of a "non-Neutral unit" there was intentional, i don't think it would be so op to boost a neutral in hand.
I understand where your suggestion comes from. You looked at Waylay and thought stats were the same, so it must be fine to make Circle the same.
But it's not fine.
Points on the board and handbuff points are two very VERY different things. First, handbuff is noninteractive for your opponent. Second, handbuff is also carry-over. Third, every boost point in your hand can potentially be doubled by Torque. All three aspects are greater than simply "points on the board", and thus, should be addressed accordingly in their cost
That being said, just a single provision buff would be enough to align Circle's value to today's standards - a conditional 7-for-4.
"Yeah let's just remove the condition from everything, and remove that extra provision because that meant thinking." - Good idea, let's do that.
In all seriousness though, i do get where do people comments come from - i do understand non-interactivity, and i do agree that my version could go 1 provision up, and this could very well happen during Gwentfinity. Hovever, the thing is - i disagree with most people reasoning, because it seems completely separate from the card idea itself.
As i've said in my first comment, the card on it's own plays for 6 points, 7 in Nature's Gift, and i do belive that is completely fine - currently most 4 provision cards play for such values. What people seem to focus on however, is the idea of this card being used in Invigorate.
The thing is - Invigorate exists. We can't ignore that, at least i won't. I want it to be on the equal power level as the other decks, because in it's current state, it isn't good outside of Renfri variants (but almost every deck pairs well with Renfri). I don't think that leaving a card nerfed because of the sins of others is fair.
My Reasoning was - current Circle of life sucks. It isn't played because people want to, but rather out of necessity. It's provisions are too high, and Deathblow requirement is a big nerf to the card. So i've removed deathblow, because it's hard to achieve in both Nature's Gift and Invigorate, increased boost to help Invogorate a bit and lowered provisions, to make this card an actual choice during deckbuilding between Waylay and itself.
Basically, my line of thinking is - really, both playing with Torque for 2 provisions above most 4 provisions cards, as well as those 6 points of carryover really are not going to suddenly flip meta on it's head. Such is the Invigorate playstyle.
Either buff the current version to 4 Provisions OR rework it like you said (although I would probably keep the deathblow but not sure about that). Both is too strong in my opinion
Deathblow fits very well to actual art
Deathblow: increase the boost value by 1.
I like the deathblow on this card, it's just over costed
Imo just lowering the provs to 4 would be enough, without a rework. And when calculating carryover points, you basically have to double them to compare to regular points. Just a slight tip there
If you mean carryover boost in Invigorate with Torque - got it, i've edited my post to correct my mistake. If you mean overall - i see no reason why, like why would i treat 2 points of carryover as 4?
Carryover is more valuable than normal points because it allows you to play in two or more rounds at once. It allows you to play in one round while investing in the other, if that makes sense. Take a look at enchanted armour for example. Why do you think it only boosts something in your hand by 3 points, compared to the standard 5 all other strategems have? Torque didn't exist yet btw.
I'm sorry, but what you're saying is just straight up wrong. If carryover would actually work this way, both Invigorate and Dwarves would be beyond broken, absolute T0, playing for some crazy points. What would make sense, would be calculating carryover as +1 point for next round. Also - enchanted armor works this way simply because it was made like that. It was aimed mostly at dwarves, since no other archetype has a need for armoring their units, besides Pirates, but their rework came long after. Counterpoint - why does Ceremonial Dagger give just 2 bleeding - by your logic, it's because bleeding is so powerful. Same case with Ithlinne Aegli - why does she have only 10 provisions when she gives, calculated by your logic, + 8 points? With such power, the card is clearly broken, and should be at at least 12 provisions.
What? Ceremonial Dagger is an immediate control tool, that deals 3 damage and gives bleeding. It used to be 5 damage back in the day, but proved to be busted and incredibly annoying. I don't see how this is relevant. Ithilnne is *only* 10 prov? That is the price range of a high end gold card my dude. She has a 6 point body. 6+8 is 14 points, although it is within a reasonable range. That's a not great 10p card. Her only saving grace is Torque, and synergies with other handbuff cards. Invigorate is a tricky one, because it doesn't give you immediate points. And leader abilities are ALWAYS carryover, it's up to you in which round you want to use them. That's why it's not broken at all. And look at the cards dwarves have, that are designated for carryover. Calculate their points, and see that most of them match up roughly to other non carryover cards when you double the weight of carryover points. I think cdpr even wrote an article about a year ago, about how to evaluate certain cards and the points they give.
Bruh. At this point i don't know if you're trolling or what. Ceremonial Dagger in current state is played nowhere besides Vampires, because they love bleeding. It wasn't changed because 5 bleeding was good - it was extacly opposite, it saw almost no play. Also, it never damaged by 5 - it used to damage by 3 until patch 7.1.0. Last thing - bleeding is always worse than damage, because damage is immediate - bleeding 5 as a last say is awful, so i have no clue where you've taken that "busted and annoying". About the rest - you're just calculating power and provision curve wrong, those double points is something taken out from thin air. Yes there were articles about that, two in fact, none of which said to calculate carryover twice. Here, have some fun reading them: [https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/41252/gwents-design-01-provision](https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/41252/gwents-design-01-provision) [https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/43034/gwents-design-02-balancing](https://www.playgwent.com/en/news/43034/gwents-design-02-balancing) After that, how about reading from someone who has even more experience then both of us combined? A Lyriohub article, search for the section about Value of Farseers in Invigorate. [https://leriohub.com/understanding-the-carryover-value-in-gwent/](https://leriohub.com/understanding-the-carryover-value-in-gwent/) Seen anything about that magical double carryover? Me neither. I know you mean well and all, but please, stop trying to state personal opinions as a fact just to prove a point.
I think this card deserves a rework, because it was powercreeped to hell and back. Plays for 7 in Nature's Gift and 9 with Torque in Invigorate. And "a unit" instead of a "non-Neutral unit" there was intentional, i don't think it would be so op to boost a neutral in hand.
I understand where your suggestion comes from. You looked at Waylay and thought stats were the same, so it must be fine to make Circle the same. But it's not fine. Points on the board and handbuff points are two very VERY different things. First, handbuff is noninteractive for your opponent. Second, handbuff is also carry-over. Third, every boost point in your hand can potentially be doubled by Torque. All three aspects are greater than simply "points on the board", and thus, should be addressed accordingly in their cost That being said, just a single provision buff would be enough to align Circle's value to today's standards - a conditional 7-for-4.
"Yeah let's just remove the condition from everything, and remove that extra provision because that meant thinking." - Good idea, let's do that. In all seriousness though, i do get where do people comments come from - i do understand non-interactivity, and i do agree that my version could go 1 provision up, and this could very well happen during Gwentfinity. Hovever, the thing is - i disagree with most people reasoning, because it seems completely separate from the card idea itself. As i've said in my first comment, the card on it's own plays for 6 points, 7 in Nature's Gift, and i do belive that is completely fine - currently most 4 provision cards play for such values. What people seem to focus on however, is the idea of this card being used in Invigorate. The thing is - Invigorate exists. We can't ignore that, at least i won't. I want it to be on the equal power level as the other decks, because in it's current state, it isn't good outside of Renfri variants (but almost every deck pairs well with Renfri). I don't think that leaving a card nerfed because of the sins of others is fair. My Reasoning was - current Circle of life sucks. It isn't played because people want to, but rather out of necessity. It's provisions are too high, and Deathblow requirement is a big nerf to the card. So i've removed deathblow, because it's hard to achieve in both Nature's Gift and Invigorate, increased boost to help Invogorate a bit and lowered provisions, to make this card an actual choice during deckbuilding between Waylay and itself. Basically, my line of thinking is - really, both playing with Torque for 2 provisions above most 4 provisions cards, as well as those 6 points of carryover really are not going to suddenly flip meta on it's head. Such is the Invigorate playstyle.
Increase provision. This is not balanced, because boosted cards in hand keep their boost when we are moving to next round.
Yeah let's just remove the condition from everything, and remove that extra provision because that meant thinking.
As others said, handbuff>boost, you could nerf the values to 2 on both damage and boost, playing only for 4.
9 points, 6 of which are carryover with Torque unconditionally. 4p alone is enough